/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9677091
The vaccines are what caused the Polio epidemic. Try thinking for yourself for once instead of parroting what you see on CNN, you insufferable faggot.

Oh man ever since we took the Fluoride out of our water I can sure say I feel healthier

>>9677094
>The vaccines are what caused the Polio epidemic
And i'm so fat because I eat so little.

It sure is a good thing that we stopped producing those unnautral GMOs and now only eat healthy natural food.

>>9677094
Ironic considering you just parroted something you read online with nothing backing it up instead of proven science

I am so happy we stopped messing with nuclear power. Don't they realize it's dangerous and bad for the environment?

I don't give my child any processed foods. He only drinks natural and raw milk.

>>9677104
But that picture literally is a good thing.

>>9677108
>unironically thinking the laundry list of vaccines recommended every year is for your own good.

yea bro, go ahead and get that flu shot, viral strains are totally predictable. Nothing wrong with voluntarily getting pumped with mercury and adjuvants because science is always right and #based.

Today PETA got it's final wish and owning a dog is considered slavery. Today all dogs have been freed and set loose.

>>9677094
Oh boy here we go

>>9677137
You would likely be dead right now without vaccines retard.
>Mercury
Oh no, I got hit with mercury in the parts per million range! That's far worse than being fucking dead.

>>9677137
Random anon on the internet: 0
Science :1000000000
I think I will trust the anon, he seems like he knows what he is talking about.

>>9677139
>This is a world where Peta wins

>TFW stemcells research finally banned

The 20 year memorial celebration of the day the US government finally banned abortion

>>9677091
I sure do miss getting smallpox.

The US government once again said that it will not legalize the use of CRISPR on humans.
In unrelated news China continues to dominate the Olympics 25 years in a row.

>>9677094
> vaccines are what caused the Polio epidemic.

>>9677137
There is no list of vaccines that are recommended every year, unless you are travelling to foreign countries regularly, particularly third world ones.

Flu shot is also only recommended for people at particular risk, like health workers and elderly.

I may be wrong but I think mercury isn't used anymore and it was a kind of mercury that the body didn't bind or break down anyway. It was in very small amounts so accumulation wouldn't be an issue.

Today the United States president said in an interview
>We wont continue to waste money on space exploration until we fix earths problems down here

What kind of personality do you have to have to make a big stink about anti-vaxxers? It's just not important. Sure, you can remark "that's stupid", but there are a lot of people who go on sites like reddit and drone on and on about how stupid anti-vaxxers are.

Why? And please don't lie about you feeling genuinely threatened by this non-issue.

>>9677214
>What kind of person do you have to be to care about child death? It's just not important
>You will hear sites like reddit drone on about how death is bad. Why?

>>9677218
The obvious difference is that reddit is a large website and there are a lot of redditors that visit 4chan, so they're relevant in that sense. Very few people who whine about anti-vaxxers actually deal with anti-vaxxers. It's a weird fixation on weird people who don't affect anything in any way.

>>9677225
>Why are you so fixated on people not dying?

>>9677232
That's a good question, because more people die for a variety of other reasons that nobody raises a stink about. Anti-vaxxers will never be relevant enough to affect policy. They are a complete non-issue. Sure they're stupid, but they don't warrant the level of attention being paid to them online.

>>9677225
> Very few people who whine about anti-vaxxers actually deal with /pol/, /his/ and /x/

>>9677239
>They don't effect policy
>Who cares if it causes people to die

>>9677239
>What is herd immunity
>What is the actual cases where it does effect policy
Why are you on /sci/ retard?

>>9677240
They're a tiny and irrelevant minority even on /pol/. That proves my point.
>>9677249
>What is herd immunity
Something that is in no way being endangered you retard.

>>9677257
>Less people being immune in a herd doesn't effect herd immunity

>>9677257
>Tiny minority
False
Notice how people who actually lived through a pre-vaccination age are pro vaccination?

>>9677214
What kind of personality do you have to have to make a big stink about people making a big stink about anti-vaxxers? Why are you so curious?

>>9677263
Just stop.
>>9677276
>False
Not false. They don't affect policy.
>>9677284
I have to deal with people who make a stink of anti-vaxxers. People who make a stink of anti-vaxxers typically don't have to deal with anti-vaxxers.

>>9677276
>old people are senile

It's not really helping your case.

>>9677288
>Idiot get's BTFO every post
>Can literally only say "stop"
>Keeps spouting that they don't affect policy which is objectively not true and even if it were true they hurt herd immunity
>>9677289
This is the same thing cucks said when old people voted for Brexit

>>9677288
>People who make a stink of anti-vaxxers typically don't have to deal with anti-vaxxers.
Except they make a majority of /pol/, /x/ and /his.

>>9677295
>Idiot get's BTFO every post
You guys keep either supporting my point or bringing up irrelevancies like herd immunity which as I said in my original response, is of virtually no concern.
>old people voted for Brexit ;_;
Oh of course, you're definitely from that website. Let me know next time so I know not to respond.
>>9677298
>they make a majority
Nah.

>>9677214
Anti-vaxxers are a threat to those who can't be immunised or have weak immune systems due to illness or old age.
They're not a direct threat to me, now. But they are a threat to portions of the population and could be to me in the future.

>>9677288
Why does it trigger you that people are insulting brainlets brainlet?
>>9677300
>herd immunity is irrelevant
You are a fucking retard

>>9677300
>That website
You mean 4chan? Only an idiot ignores the wisdom of those with youth. You sound like an edgy redditer

>>9677304
>Anti-vaxxers are a threat to those who can't be immunised or have weak immune systems due to illness or old age.
Doesn't affect enough people to matter. The number of people with vaccinations in first world nations is quite high. More is better, but we've crossed a threshold where the number of potential casualties is insignificant. That combined with...
>and could be
Highly unlikely. You'll be fine, especially because the population increasingly supports vaccinations. More evidence that you guys worry over nothing. Based on the Brexit comment my suspicions are confirmed that this is basically an irrational hatred of some political outgroup. Carry on anons.

>>9677316
>Doesn't affect enough people
>herd immunity doesn't effect people
>A child/elderly getting sick because of retards doesn't effect anyone
You are such a fucking retard.
>Why are you talking about things that hurt and kill people instead of talking about the stupid irrelevant bullshit I want to talk about!

>>9677316
>is insignificant
Only to a retarded edge lord like you, not to the people who get seriously hurt do to a sickness.

>>9677316
>Antivaxxers have led to multiple measles outbreaks
>But it's insagnificant because I didn't get sick
Do you literally have autism? That is the only explanation that could explain your stupidity.

>>9677316
If they didn't actively try to convince people to follow their decisions I might be inclined to agree with you.
Cults should be dealt with. They can harm others than their own members.

>>9677091

Let's try a non-meme post: this reminds me of a substantive history book I read for college once. After a bit of flipping I think I found the passage I remember.

For those on /sci/ who are minded to read a bit of history/policy: Judith Sealander's "The Failed Century of the Child" is a very well-documented, to-the-point history of twentieth century social policy towards children in America. Naturally, the book discusses the history of vaccination at length, and spends a section on polio. Upon review, Sealander makes two basic points: polio is a disease of cleanliness, not grime (improved 20th century sanitation prevented people from building natural immunity), and the one that I want to specifically underline: although of course the disease could be unpleasant and maim a few, it really (oversimplifying) wasn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. We just happen to have a lot of mid-20th century imagery of the disease, FDR had it, etc.

Sealander's treatment is more measured than what I've just written. Specifically, this passage: "Lost in all this publicity was the fact that, even at its peak in 1952, polio killed less than 5 percent of its 57,879 reported victims. Most among the approximately one third of cases with paralytic symptoms eventually regained use of their muscles. Typically, those who fell ill suffered nothing worse than headache, fever and chills. But the average American thought that a diagnosis of polio was a virtual sentence to an iron lung, and children in iron lungs had become the nation's intellectual property. The search for their salvation altered public health policy."

Basically it was a disease that attacked little kids and made them have to get into big scary machines so American society promptly attacked the problem. Obv Spanish Flu, say, was way worse. And I don't know the numbers but I bet diphtheria was nastier for society in general in previous decades.

>>9677091
This thread made me happy
and even gave me some hope for humanity

>>9677094
wow

i mean just wow

Funny cause my dad remembers kids who got polio and ended up in the iron lung. They didn't get vaccinated.

but i'm sure you're really on to something

>>9677276
Millenials make me angrier and angrier everyday. And im part of this shit generation. Doesnt help that most of my peers are non-asian

>>9677672
Most of humanity is shit , it's not just you millenials


Feel better? :)

on the plus side, most of 7 billion means there are still a lot of really awesome people

>>9677094
The vaccine is why it went away, dunekov.

>>9677094
not sure is maximum autism or bait

>>9677715
Where do you think you are? It's clearly both. Autism is like a free space around here. We all get to check it for free.

>>9677214
Anti-vaccers turn their children into epidemic-inducing time bombs. If you vaccinate your children, direct exposure to the real diseases is usually enough to infect them. Some die. Many live and are affected for life. Anti-vaccers are murdering and maiming children of people who have done every single thing right in regards to protecting their children for entirely preventable diseases.
Your children also have to wait for certain vaccinations, making them completely unable to fight off some of the diseases on the vaccine list if exposed. Enjoy having your kid die because la cretura and el goblino decided their kid was special and needed only luck not to get measles and spread it to eighty other children at Disney World.

Fuck anti-vaccers. They should be prosecuted for terrorism and have their reproductive rights taken away after their child or children is/are removed from their custody. I hope one day this is how they're dealt with. They're criminals.

>>9677731
Unironically this. Take my upvote

>>9677731
For real.

>>9677731
we wouldnt need vaccines anymore if it wasnt for all of the third world hordes spreading their filth

>>9677091
Honest question. How come the mercury compound that is used to steralize it in some vaccines isn't dangerous to people?

>>9677763
I think Stick explains it in this.
https://youtu.be/GLcLzvznSk0

>>9677763
insignificant dose and they stopped using it anyway

>>9677210
>I may be wrong

>>9677845
About them not using it anymore, but it still isn't a kind that harms the body.

>>9677091
saw the movie "Breathe", didn'tcha?!

>>9677731
As a medical worker, a thousand times this.

>>9677812
And they stopped entirely because of public pressure.

>>9677094
And violence cause niggers

>>9677139
That would be actually good, the problem is dogs are genetically modified to require captivity so they all should be killed instead.

>>9677731
>eighty other children
If those were vaccinated children, how could they be at risk for infection? The only ones 'at risk' should be the unvaccinated children, according to the 'vaccines prevent illness' theory.
There's a reason that "The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program" exists, along with countless independent scientific articles and personal anecdotes of dead and critically injured children shortly after injection.
But please, keep shilling like a useful idiot.

>>9678437
You are a fucking retard. Not everyone is old/young enough for vaccines to be useful yet.

>>9678437
the NVICP collects all reports of adverse incidents in close temporal proximity to vaccination, regardless of whether the incident was caused by the vaccine. they make no investigation into the causative agent.

also, vaccines aren't 100% effective, and not all people can be vaccinated.

>>9678437
The closer you get to 100% vaccination the higher the chances of the virus going extinct, the lower the vaccination percentage, the higher the chances of the virus evolving to deal with the vaccine. Also >>9678444

>>9677146
>im totally not parroting whatever CDC/WHO tells me is true
>im an independent thinker i swear

>>9678461
So are you so retarded you think doctors are just lying about the PPM of mercury in vaccines?

>>9678461
cdc advice is based on peer-reviewed, published research

>>9678461
>Why are you believing published papers and known data?
>Why aren't you believing my random shitposting?
Kill your self please.

>>9678469
>Peer-reviewed
By whom? Exclusively corporate bank grant funded university scientists? Sounds legit.
Let's just pretend that no one who isn't on that payroll has a different view worth considering.

Many modern health “authorities” credit vaccines for the decline in disease and assure us that vaccines are safe and effective. But is that true? Take a close look at the following graphs and you will see the reduction in deaths from pertussis (whooping cough), diphtheria, polio and measles.

Notice that these diseases were virtually wiped out before the introduction of their respective vaccines! Rather the decrease in these childhood maladies weren’t due to vaccinations (as you may have been told), but were mainly the result of improved public health and hygiene (including sanitation and cleaner drinking water) during that time.

An interesting side note concerning polio involves some “shady” behavior by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC); in 1958, after the introduction of the live polio vaccine, they changed the definition of “polio.” Cases of inflammation of the membrane that protects the brain and spinal neuron cells, causing muscular weakness and pain (but not paralysis) were no longer classified as “polio”; they were now to be referred to as aseptic meningitis, even if the polio virus was present.

In 1977, Jonas Salk, the creator of the polio vaccine, testified before a Senate subcommittee that “all polio outbreaks since 1961 were caused by the oral polio vaccine.” In 1985, the CDC reported that 87% of the cases of polio in the USA between 1973 and 1983 were caused by the vaccine and most of the reported cases occurred in fully immunized individuals.

Source: https://thetruthaboutcancer.com/the-truth-about-vaccinations/

Bonus: http://whale.to/a/hoax.html

inb4
>those aren't credible(government sponsored) sources!!!

>>9678495
hygiene may have contributed to the initial decline in infections for those diseases but every time a community in modern history lowers its vaccination rates, outbreaks occur and infections spike. if hygiene was the primary defense against infection rather than vaccines, that shouldn't happen.

furthermore, modern introduction of vaccines for previously unmanaged diseases also shows the same precipitous drop in infection rates that we saw with classical cases. did hygiene really improve so much, coincidentally, in the mid 90s when the improved Hib vaccine was developed?

the hygiene explanation just doesn't make internal sense

>>9678495
You are saying a bunch of bullshit without a source while those evil scientists actually back up their claims. Fuck off back to /pol/.

>>9678495
>all polio outbreaks since 1961 were caused by the oral polio vaccine
That is because the vaccine caused the virus to go extinct in the wild you fucking retard. You are saying that vaccines are bad because they work so well. Also modern vaccines use different methods that can't infect you. You are dangerously stupid.

>>9677091
>weak people not dying is a good thing
t. weakling

>>9678495
>I don't trust scientists with tons of data
>I trust this website trying to sell me bullshit alternative medicine and thinks the government is putting chemicals in our water supply to mind control us
>>9678916
I guess Africans are the most genetically fit because they build immunities to common preventable diesel because they would rather die in the millions than use modern medicine. At least they have the excuse of being poor and uneducated.

>>9678933
They could be, Europeans are not only becoming weak but average IQ is also going down, weakling usually are stupid too, European environment selects for intelligence while African doesn't, you make it sound like if we don't let weaklings leech of then we are all going to become nigger, while the opposite is true.

>>9678951
But niggers are immune to the most amount of viruses and are therefore the least weak.

>>9678957
That's not how it works, it's not comparably, it's not about the number of eases you are immune to, it's about being immune to right diseases for your environment.
like I said, they could also be least weak, I'm not saying they are not.

>>9677162
>Lots of things can be made from animals body parts/products
>Thus all of those things can ONLY be made from animal body parts/products
Hello brainlet

>>9678902
>illiterate clown can't even finish reading a post to see the word "Source:"

Pro-vaccination is really a thinking man's argument.

>>9678985
>Source
>Source has nothing to do with modern vaccination
>Even ignoring the fact that the source is shit it has nothing to do with the discussion

>>9678976
So are you telling me vegans play vegan tennis?

>>9678970
>For the environment
Or you can just change the environment so it isn't filled with disease which is the obvious solution to anyone not retarded.
>Making up this much mental bullshit so you don't have to wash your hands

>>9679004
Yes, if they want to

>>9679008
we are already trying that and he it is overall negative, unsustainable.

>>9679008
>washing your hands will protect you from inhaling a virus transmitted by respiratory droplets

>>9679021
>it's overall negative
Really? So you would prefer to live in a time when we didn't change the environment? Have fun living in a cave faggot.

>>9679028
That's what vaccines are for.

>>9679040
no, that's not what I said. I would prefer if society was more regulate, more eugenics, less use and dependence of medicine and technology, would prefer if technology was mostly used for scientific achievement and progress, not for making our already comfortable life more comfortable. basically I took half of the Unabomber-pill

>>9679065
>Less dependent on technology
So you want to live in a cave.

>>9677731
>Anti-vaccers are murdering and maiming children of people
>Enjoy having your kid die
Unlikely. Not enough people are dying for it to matter. The trend is that younger people are more likely to support vaccines so it's an increasingly silly fear. It's kind of like people who feel threatened by the existence of terrorism or homicides in general, both of which are unlikely to harm you or the vast majority of people. But it tugs at people's heartstrings so they feel the need to virtue signal about it online, like what you and others are doing in threads about anti-vaxxers.
>because la cretura and el goblino decided their kid
If only people with your views didn't tend to love 3rd world immigrants.

>>9679229
>not enough people are dying to matter
How edgy, how many people have to die for it to matter faggot? Thousands isn't enough?

>>9679251
I find it really strange that I'm going to have to repeat this for probably the 3rd or 4th time considering people here are supposed to be pretty smart. It's not enough for it to matter according to your own standards, because you don't pay attention to or get upset over countless things in life that kill thousands of people. The extent to which you'll care for any particular issue will be emotionally driven, and sometimes your emotional drive looks stupid. It's not (solely) about thousands of people dying, so please stop saying it is. There's likely an element of political outgroup vs ingroup attitudes as evidenced by someone randomly talking about Brexit earlier. This is my last post about this because it's frustrating that people can't understand basic points. Have fun.

>>9679229
it's really funny how your crowd thinks that trying to be a better person and holding yourself to high standards is a bad thing

>>9677094

Jesus christ this redditfag is an absolute retard

>>9678460
Viruses don't really evolve to deal with vaccines because the vaccines don't actively do anything to viruses.
They create the immune response memory in your body so that when your body gets the real virus it can fight it off immediately.
It doesn't really give the virus time to evolve in the body to be different enough that the immune response doesn't work and needs to be redone.

The big difference to this is the flu, of course, which changes so rapidly vaccines are only good for a year at best, but that has nothing to do with the vaccines.

>>9678495
>Take a close look at the following graphs
I can't because the resolution is so low.

>>9679364
>Viruses don't really evolve to deal with vaccines
Yes they do. Just not in your individual body. Viruses change epitopes all the time.

>>9679372
Yeah, so they're not evolving due to the vaccine as much as just evolving.

>>9679501
They definitely are if their host is killing them. Natural selection will want them to change their epitope because the ones that do survive and the ones that don't die. That is why it's best to get an entire population vaccinated so the virus has no where else to go.

>>9679526
Yeah, but their environment isn't changing.
It's not like drugs that make their environment uninhabitable to kill them off, it's like a more efficient predator.
The virus might spit out a few mutations that are suited for the adverse environment the drugs create but they need a greater mutation to out do the predator.

>>9678985
literally fucking kek'd hard

>>9679690
>Virus that don't develop new epitote dies
>virus that does spread
That is natural selection/evolution.

>>9679841
Think of it more like the predator and environment example I gave.
If you introduce a new predator that is especially good at hunting your species then the species may not have time for a trait that will save them from the predator becomes dominant.

If the environment changes then the species may have several generations for a trait that helps them survive becomes dominant.

Vaccines are like the first one. Once your body notices the virus it is attacked immediately and starts to be killed off. Using drugs is more like environmental changes.

This reduces the time the virus has in the body to reproduce and thus evolve.
Second, importantly, the vaccine teaches the body what the virus is like so the body can react immediately. If the virus does evolve a new form that the vaccine doesn't cover then the vaccine can be updated, but it's just a likely when evolving that greatly it would become less dangerous, or more dangerous, or have completely different symptoms.

>>9677094

>>9680324
So vaccine had no effect? What the fuck

>>9680324
>that fucking small print

>>9680365
read the small print, its a completely biased graph

>>9677852
It is mercury but its in a compound so it doesnt react with the body in the way that pure mercury would. I think it boosts the immune response

>>9681172
pure mercury is much less deadly than organic mercury
I know silver is a really good disinfectant so maybe it's something like that

>>9677120
If I were a little boy, I would've thought that coffin would be bad-ass, but it'd better have an alien on it, and I'd like to be buried with my toys.

>>9677091
Some vaccines are good and helpful and worth the risk of retardation, like polio vaccine is
Others are not like the flu vaccine is

>>9681278
Seems like you forgot to take the retard vaccine

>>9681163
Did _actually_ read it tho? If anything it further supports the graph. Fucking brainlet

>>9681666
The highest years include non-paralytic polio cases while the rest of the years only show paralytic polio cases.
It gives a false impression. However you cannot deny that after the vaccine was introduced polio was effectively eradicated. In 10 years it drop to insignificance.
>it was going down anyway!
There were no signs of it going away, though.

>>9677214
>reddit spacing
>zero intelligent thought
>obviously uneducated
You have literally no comprehension of what you're speaking on. Un vaccinated people are a threat to everyone. Allowing viruses to freely transmit means they can also mutate leading to a far worse public health cris. Jesus christ please go back to school before you get people killed.

>>9677731
/thread

>>9682716
using my 'reddit spacing' which i use to make things easier to read

i would like to agree with you

apart from the reddit thingy