/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9670025
I want to!!

>>9670025
spacex wont even exist by 2030.

>>9670058
This. Meme, loser company with a god tier PR department.

Once they stop sucking tax money in the next economic slump a more efficient company will grab their market.

>>9670025(OP)
Yeah, but you need a very, very useful skill, and a proof that you can be a real asset for Mars colonisation.

>>9670025
Don't those rich fuckers that have a huge space boner have to go to space boot camp so they can get fit before going off in the the deep dark?

>>9670058

>>9670025

Mars is an airless hell that only happens to look like a planet. Individual colony bases would be just as isolated as separate O'Neill cylinders are. Except instead of flying cleanly through space to get from one to another, you'd have to drive over the surface in some rickety shitmobile rover, taking care not to flip the fucking thing in the low gravity.

>>9670025
you arent going to mars. find a career and a wife maybe.
this fantasy is akin to joining a monastery to not have to deal with life. If you want out of life/freedom and all the misery choice brings, join the french foreign legion
>>9670067
>>9670058
>>9670106
this

>>9670088
>this is what muskfags unironically believe

>>9670106
>Except instead of flying cleanly through space to get from one to another, you'd have to drive over the surface in some rickety shitmobile rover, taking care not to flip the fucking thing in the low gravity.
We can build roads. Not to mention railways.

>>9670058
Hey that comet shit was exciting as fuck, especially when they lost it. Also, falcon heavy was more exciting than the car imo

ngl when I saw the boosters land themselves it was like watching the fucking future happen

>>9670200
>synchronized landing
MUH FUTURE
LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE
>>9670185
someone doenst remember the sexism scandal
>>9670183
imagine living in antarctica, except 10x worse, no to reaaaally slow internet, no possibility to leave this shithole if you dont like it, and many more perks.
the mars mission is truly one of the most retarded musk ideas. we cant even build a self sustaining colony in antarctica, how the fuck and most importantly WHY will we do it on mars?

>>9670227
We have to leave Earth someday lel
Best case scenario, Earth gets baked like a jacket potato in 1.5 billion years
Worst case scenario, nuclear war.

That just makes me wonder whether colonizing the upper atmosphere of Venus would be a better idea. 0.91g gravity, similar enough air pressure, and a thick enough atmosphere to shield us from radiation. The main problem would probably be getting water.

>>9670269
>That just makes me wonder whether colonizing the upper atmosphere of Venus would be a better idea.

Spoiler:
It's not.

>>9670227
They *could* make a self-sustaining colony in Antarctica, Chile did this back in the 80s? but the main question would be 'why' and also the infrastructure required (sewage treatment plants, power plants, ect) would violate all kinds of treaties. It would make no economic sense and neither would a colony on Mars.

Only reason people live in those remote villages in Alaska is because they are wards of corporate governments and get cut a check every month for existing.

>>9670025
They will accept most paying customers. You will probably have to sign a waiver and pass a background check and psych eval. Ticket prices will be very expensive and probably wont include things like housing, food, or internet unless they create a "basics" plan like in that movie Passengers.

>>9670269
>Best case scenario earth gets baked like a potato in 1.5 billion years

Not sure about you, but on the Earth I inhabit, the scientists have a 0% chance of accurately predicting the weather over even the next two to three days. Trusting them with the fate of stars and the exact details of our own sun's conditions, instead of realizing that they are WAY theorizing based on ultimately limited evidence, is a fool's errand. Especially talking about it like its fact for fodder to fund a trip to a planet we know equally few details about.

Humanity wont ever have to leave earth and will be far less populated within 200 years

>>9670067
i can honestly never tell if posts like these are sarcasm or not

>>9670321

if by limited evidence you mean the literal hundreds of of billions of data points and points of reference that are other stars, then your right

>>9670321
>random space rock hits Earth
>everybody dies
Maybe sentient ants won't be as stupid as humanity and would actually try not to put all eggs in one basket.

>>9670025
I think in the near future they wouldn't. Engineers, biologists etc would be first on Mars.
It will take decades to make infrastructure that would be enough to accept regular people

>>9670287
>they could
do you know what a self sustaining colony means? that if the earth suddenly blows up, Martians can keep living without the earth's support. that is currently impossible.

>>9670331
Well they're sarcasm in that they're designed to bait redditors like yourself. However, they are not sarcasm in the sense that they are in fact plain and simple statements of fact.

>>9670058

NASA landed on an asteroid back in the early 2000s. It wasn't special when ESA did it (and not entirely successful either).

>>9670573
>what is the difference between a near earth asteroid and a comet
just GTFO this board little brainlet

>>9670377

>that is currently impossible.

Only because nobody has tried it. There is no specific technical reason why a self-sustaining Mars colony could not exist. Would likely be hard to do, tough.

>>9670589

There is no great difference really

>>9670384

>they're designed to bait redditors like yourself.

thats rich coming from an ignorant /r/enoughmuskspam user

>>9670384
>>9670067
If only they were as efficient as ULA or Northrup :)

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/13/equidate-spacex-27-billion-valuation-shows-unlimited-private-funding-available.html

Money won’t be a problem

>>9670025

SpaceX would accept regular people as long as you have $ few hundred thousand and likely pass some background check (dont want psychically unstable people on a spaceship).

Also that picture is not realistic as BFS will have to land far much further from each other or they risk damaging the ship next to it. Mars colony would look more like this

>>9670622
Even that is a bit optimistic. Everything on mars will have huge margins, as in error bars that allow for mistakes to be made but the humans still survive. I wouldn’t be surprised if the BFR’s land more than a couple kilometers from the base.

Also, I’d imagine that there will always be enough supplies to support colonists if two entire mars windows are missed for resupply or something like that

WILL NEETS BE ALLOWED TO TRAVEL TO MARS?

>>9670622
I think musk said a mars ticket will cost $200,000 max. Pretty cheap, desu.

>>9670634
No. In fact, there likely won’t be specialized individuals for a while, except when it comes to science.

You know the “bus number”? Mars colonists will, for the first few years, not have diverse bus numbers at ALL. It’s the safe thing to do

>>9670635
Iirc the more solid number from musk was that if a middle class American sold every single thing he owned and emptied all of his accounts, the value of those assists will be enough to pay for a one way ticket.

If the cost to be a colonist isn’t as low as that, colonization won’t work

>>9670607
you know how to spot a redditor? when he starts accusing other people of visiting specific subreddits

>>9670614
>what sets spacex apart for investors?
>musks grand vision
this is your brain on fanboyism
>>9670622
>>9670635
>muskfags unironically think that they will be able to travel en masse to mars for only 400k without formal astronaut training
>>9670640
>appollo 11s cost was 155 billion in todays money
>even if you reduce that to one percent (1.15 billion), do you unironically believe that the highest bidders will be some lowlife fags like you?

>>9670649

I dont deny it, it takes one to recognize one

you should know that reddit marxists are by far the single largest concentration of anti-spacex shills on the internet, and they are VERY butthurt that a burgeoise billionaire is finally pushing spaceflight forward after decades of stagnation under government management

so anytime you see such posts, there is a very good chance that an ignorant redditor is behind it

actual spaceflight professionals, while recognizing that it is sometimes overhyped, are very much optimistic about SpaceX

>>9670673
>even if you reduce that to one percent (1.15 billion), do you unironically believe that the highest bidders will be some lowlife fags like you?

Yeah, and 100% of every component of each of the 20+ launch vehicles used in the apollo program were discarded, reordered and rebuilt from scratch. Get your head out of your ass.

>>9670614

I doubt private money will be enough even with the increases in SpaceX valuation.

However if SpaceX manages to seriously tap into them bottomless government budgets, ($12 billion going to manned spaceflight every year, with more billions in unmanned and military space spending), then money will certainly not be a problem.

>>9670680
lol what are you even trying to say here

>>9670683
lol? commercial space stuff dwarfs any government budget, most of which is wasted or on useless stuff like probes/telescopes

>>9671007
>most of which is wasted or on useless stuff like probes/telescopes
get off /sci/ RIGHT FUCKING NOW muskfag

>>9670106
Sounds fun desu senpai

>>9670321
>Not sure about you, but on the Earth I inhabit, the scientists have a 0% chance of accurately predicting the weather over even the next two to three days.

That is statistically wrong though

>>9670106
Mars is big tho

>>9671007
>wasted or on useless stuff like probes/telescopes

>>9670025
>Would SpaceX accept regular people onto their Mars colonization program just as colonists or workers?

They are going to have to soon enough. People don't realize how much work they are going to have to do to supply the power and food for the base. Like 2/3 of the people will have to be farmers and 1/3 in manufacturing. If someone thinks they are going to Mars for pure research they are mistaken. Better off staying at a university on Earth and waiting for the mission to return useful info.

Another topic:
Aren't they going to need something like this to unload rovers/base parts and other big stuff?

>>9670673
>muskfags unironically think that they will be able to travel en masse to mars for only 400k without formal astronaut training

Extremely poor trolling. Try again.

>>9670169
They will, just wait a few years.

>>9671259
pls explain buddy
what part about what I said is not true
>>9671267
ANY TIME NOW

>>9671248
>If someone thinks they are going to Mars for pure research they are mistaken.

Yeah this. Pretty much the only people they will send initially, for quite a while, aside from a small set of engineers and planners are going to be multi skilled people who can do electrical work, plumbing, put together anything with a set of instructions and farm hydro/aeroponics. No way in hell are they sending people with only a singular skillset. In fact I think this is the best thing you can do to get selected if you have the money and the guts to do it, learn a shitload of skills and be ready to provide evidence you know what you are doing in each field of skill.

>>9671276
You don't need astronaut training to sit in a BFR cabin for 6 months.

>>9671282
>>9671277
>tfw two muskfags contradict each other right one after another

>>9671277
Well I guess you can say the same thing for NASA on the space station. They have to do tons of work in addition to science. But in that case they aren't really doing the science, they are managing experiments designed from Earth. Plus they are 100% dependent on Earth and have an escape rocket to go home if need be.

Mars is going to be like working in the ISS, but in the extreme. The farming modules is going to be much bigger than the habitat.

>>9670058
>failed mission vs successful mission

Hmm.

>>9671285
How are those two posts contradictory? What are you smoking?

>>9671007

a lot more money goes to old space than commercial space

>>9671296
>huge skillset
vs
>LITERALLY ANYONE CAN FLY
>>9671295
elon musk truly put the roadster into mars orbit...
and the heavy totally landed successfully....
also holy fuck the rosetta mission was one of the most complex space maneuvers in history, and it went extremely well in respect of that fact

Why do people think Mars is going to have domes?

They are going bankrupt and Boeing is already well ahead with the commercial crew program.
I'd suggest you sell whatever sx stocks you've got because you'll burn otherwise.

>>9671307
no, they will actually look like pic related

>>9671309
>Boeing is already well ahead with the commercial crew program
Do you mean one year behind SpaceX estimate?

Plus NASA said they both aren't going to make their deadlines.

>>9671313
Yeah, the grass on the second pic kind of messes it up. Hold on.

>>9671303
Yes it will require a huge skillset to be part of the first wave because you need to be able to make and fix a million different things and yes anyone who has this skillset will not need astronaut training to get there because they just sit in an automated rocket for 6 months. What is so hard to grasp?

>>9671307
Lava tubes with mirrors and skylights are the best desu.

>>9671313
>>9671322
Here you go.

>>9671326
look at my filename retard
>>9671316
>astronaut training is useless and unecessary, heh

>>9671330
You are a shit troll with no compelling points to make other than deflecting and moving goalposts.

When are you spacecucks finally going to realise that space is a meme and planets like Mars are not physical terra firma, but rather plasmic frequencies of light/electricity? The faster you do the better.

>>9671345
Ever read Asimov’s Nemesis?

>>9671333
literally r*ddit-tier response
>muh trolling
>muh deflecting
learn to argue faggot, and at least explain why any of what I said is wrong.
Do you unironically believe the rocket will be a perfect machine and the people in there will have nothing to do, except sit and enjoy life?

>>9671345
At last my eyes are truly open.

>>9671352
Sorry mate, you are the only Redditor here.

>>9671349
No, but sci-fi books like that were designed to brainwash that generation of the population into accepting the current model of the universe.

>>9671354
Use them to look at so called planets and you will frequencies of dancing light,

>>9671352
Yes
The idea of an astronaut actually doing anything is dead. This isn’t Gemini, anon. Everything is controlled by computer - EVERYTHING.

>>9671378
I wish my lawnmower was computer controlled.

>>9671345
*inhales bongtubefull of marijuana*

>>9671389
*imagines living on Mars*

>>9671399
*takes a fucking plastic bag full of vaped weed and inserts it into anus, rectally absorbing the marijuana*

>>9671383
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Worx-7-in-Landroid-Robotic-Lawn-Mower-WG794/207139521

FUTURE

>>9671404
*thinks about black holes*

>>9670106
This. Let's build a space city in LEO instead

>>9671409
I need a fpv and something beefy, not a maintenance lawnmower.

>>9670025
No, because there's highly skilled people who also want to go to mars and could do those jobs instead

>>9670377
>x is currently impossible
do you have a single shred of evidence to back that up
if not, take your brainlet ass and fuck off

>all these literal fucking shills spamming this fantastically fucking hard
holy motherfuck how much are they paying you shitboots
this is ridiculous

>>9671378
I see you've never done any actual work or research on anything in your entire fucking life

I didn't think it was possible to be this much of a brainlet but here you are

>>9670331
>>9670384
Because ULA is so economically feasible without subsidies right?

Why doesn't ULA just bid lower than SpaceX for these missions? Oh right because they cant.

ULA is a bunch of entitled welfare queens sucking billions in tax money just to stay afloat.

I work for a SpaceX and ULA contractor, dealing with SpaceX is so nice. There engineers will design around development problems and are fluid in a give and take approach to changes and improvements. ULA are a bunch of pricks that don't care the alloy they want sucks ass and is prone to cracking or that there own god dammed designs don't fucking pass atp when built to spec. This POS part is built the same dammed way for the past 40 years and no power in heaven or earth will get them to modernize it.

>>9671481
>Has no real point to make
>Just uses ad hominems

I love how my tax dollars pay for ULA shills.

>>9670067
agreed
those rockets that land themselves was a fucking dumb pr move that the soybois ate up like gummy candy

>>9671307
Domes actually work well, faggot.

I envision concentric ETFE domes held in tension by air pressure and polymer ropes, the outer domes primarily exist to freeze out most of the air that permeates from the inner dome, but also act as emergency containment should the inner dome fail. It should be possible to have domes on mars several km in diameter with currently available materials having no support structure, held up by air pressure alone.

>>9670025

They better accept refugees

>>9671493
computers cannot fix damage
a human being needs to be the one doing repairs, because computers are not smart enough to make repairs, only alert people when things get fucked

it would be nice to have self repairing hull or smart repair drones, but we have not yet gotten to that level just yet, give it a decade or two

>>9671476
Sometimes I think its part of the biezos group funding it. BO tries to keep a relatively low profile and desperately wants SpaceX to fail.

>>9671513
Domes are shit tier, how do you expect to shield against radiation unless your dome consists of 2 metre thick leaded glass, at which point I can't see how the fuck you will support that.

>>9671515
what "repairs"?

>>9671513
>no rotating bowl to give earth normal gravity
JELLO BABIES

domes will not be for habitation, only scenery, since the habitation blocks will need to have spin gravity so people don't wind up getting fucked by low G

>>9671524
>muskfags would unironically rather believe in shills than their company deserving any kind of criticism at all

>>9671513
>Domes actually work well, faggot.
Maybe they do, but I think we are going to see concrete rectangles with glass roofs. Concrete is easy to make on Mars, but steel is not without mining and smelting.

>>9671529
You didn't think space was completely empty, did you?
space rocks are still there and quite enjoy fucking shit up

This is how people are going to live on Mars for a very long time.

>>9671537
Legitimate criticism is welcome, but you are implying a bunch of retards shitting out ULA company lines is legitimate criticism, fuck off.

>>9671544
On the one in a billion chance a rock hits the ship there won't be any repair work to do because everyone will be dead. Try again, now what needs fixing?

>>9671551
people are going to live in lava tubes, not on the surface
radiation is a big fucking problem and will fuck everyone's shit up, especially considering it's a colony and they're going to be there permanently getting fried by it

>>9671557
you literally deny any kind of criticism in this thread
>inb4 but there wasnt any valid criticism in here yet
yes there were retard

9671557
You're being retarded on purpose, aren't you

>>9671557
>Try again, now what needs fixing?
If we learned anything from the Columbia accident it was two things:
>a crewed ship should have some small capability to patch the hull
>helmets should be like motorcycle helmets otherwise astronauts snap their necks in an accident

>>9671551
Looks comfy desu.

>>9670058
Reminder that the alt right is so effeminate because dairy has more estrogen than soy.

>>9671562
>people are going to live in lava tubes, not on the surface

So you believe that we are going to drill down and put a habitat before the first people get there? Man we are lucky if we can find water under there. Build a hab underground is just unrealistic.

>>9671567
This one looks a little more dystopian.

>>9671525

Radiation fears were invented by 'the man' to keep us down.

The effects of chronic background radeation are far less than models predict. There are places in India with an average radeation dose of 70 millisieverts per year, living on the surface of mars would expose you to about 88 millisieverts per year. While people would spend some time working in the domes for cultivation, they would spend most of there time living in more shielded structures. They would get less radeation than some of there Indian counterparts.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19066487

>>9671570
Still looks pretty comfy man.

>>9671563
>Hurf a durr muskrats dumb it's not gonna happen

Is not legitimate criticism.

>>9671537
Complaining about him getting subsidies is not criticism they deserve, unless you are going to provide evidence that he unfairly gets more than other industry members that are currently providing government launch services.

I am fine with someone stating the belief that the whole industry getting too much subsidies, but to say SpaceX is shit because they get some while ignoring all the others who get more is quite disingenuous.

>>9671570
radiation = death
That's probably the reason for the tunnel bore Musk funded, they'll probably bring one like an Ikea package and set up shop in the first tube opening they see

>>9671582
>>9671586
Don't bother responding to them, They've been spamming this shit for fucking years now in every single thread even tangentially related to spaceflight or Musk

>>9671598
>ignore le haters

>>9671590
>radiation = death
Don't act like Mars has that much radiation.

>>9671614
it has enough that even a mission to stay 6 months is uncomfortably high, considering people are going to be staying there for the rest of their lives, any measure to ensure that they don't get cancer and/or become sterile is one we should probably go for

The colonists were going to be in a box anyway, and they can always go outside if they want to see the sights, Home should be underground and protected

>>9671623
>it has enough that even a mission to stay 6 months is uncomfortably high
Not in a habitat/space suit.

Solar panels are half as effective on Mars.
What particular type of radiation is the worry here to you?

>>9671648
>half
not true. The increased distance is offset partly by the lack of a substantial atmosphere. Plus, the colder temperatures on mars means that the panels can run more efficiently. Even so, half of what they can produce on earth is still fine when you bring a lot of em with you

kilopower is still the way to go, of course

>>9671664
Due to the Surviving Mars game using solar panels it peeked interest in the value of solar on Mars. Even some new YouTube videos on the subject. Adjusting for the negative of less light and the positive of thinner atmosphere and as you say colder, more efficient. The end result is about half as effective as Earth. Look it up if you want. Wind power is also about half as effective on Mars.

Still half effective solar isn't bad and you can increase that a lot with solar tracking.

>>9670025
Nah it'll be rich people, astronauts and top ex military. Assuming they survive and are able to bootstrap up, super smart engineers and techs will be next. After that, super smart research people, then private interests which will bring more regular people though they'll have to give up everything to afford it.

>>9671740
also, the energy needed for ISRU methane production is crazy huge. Thus why I think spacex will push for kilopower development as we get closer to the mars BFR launches

>>9671764
>mars BFR launches
The problem with Musk's dates about Mars is no country or company is designing equipment for humans to live and work on Mars. It took many years to develop the ISS even before a single piece of equipment was launched. Even being optimistic I don't see anything being launched for a long while.

>>9671770
>It took many years to develop the ISS even before a single piece of equipment was launched

Government contractors at work again. A private company would have built it for a fraction of the cost in a fraction of the time.

>>9671421

Build it over Mars. Compromise, and that way we can colonize above planets, and work on the planet itself.

>>9671770
>no country or company is designing equipment for humans to live and work on Mars
literally untrue
people have been designing shit for a while now, and are presently working on refining those very same designs

>>9671782
>>9671813
>people have been designing shit for a while now, and are presently working on refining those very same designs
>A private company would have built it for a fraction of the cost in a fraction of the time.

Okay so how do you build something without the right information. For example a colony needs a source of water. Number one priority. So we use NASA data to find the most logical place for a colony with the best chance of water. Then what? Do we build a computer controlled drilling rig to look for water? Let us say we do because we are a private company and much better than the government. Then what? Do we build the equipment (all automated) to pump, store, filter the water? Then more automated equipment to make oxygen, hydrogen, and methane from the atmosphere/water. How about a habitat? Did we make that too? How do we hook all this up to the habitat? More automated stuff? Or is it all in pieces ready for the colonists to assemble as they live out of the rocket? How about the rovers and other equipment? Did we make that also? We are talking 5 rockets minimum at this point before we even think about bringing colonists.

Face reality. All we have is talking points about Mars Direct and theories on how to build this equipment. No one has a blueprint. No one has built anything. We aren't talking years here. We are talking decades. Maybe this is all possible by 2050, not 2025.

>pic related: no cute hard working drone to do colony work

>>9671820
we have been designing stuff though. Designing ≠ building flight hardware. Just go to google scholar and poke around; or just do site:nasa.gov and look at all of the research that has been done.

>>9671825
>site:nasa.gov and look at all of the research that has been done.
But I thought we were going full private contractor? You want to use NASA designs that are made via a bureaucracy?

Here, this is an example of a NASA design for oxygen generation from Martian atmosphere.
It has never been built. The only thing they are building is a 1% scale model for a drone to be launched 2 years from now.

>>9671820
>maybe this is all possible by 2050, not 2025
I don't think you comprehend how long 32 years is
7-8 years is more than enough time to make shit happen, that's pretty much how long it took for SpaceX to go from literally who status to today, and now they have more resources and interest than ever

>>9671925
infinite money, too

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/13/equidate-spacex-27-billion-valuation-shows-unlimited-private-funding-available.html

>>9671925
I bet you are under the age of 25. Wait a few years when your hair starts thinning and you don't have as much energy. Then you will be a little more pessimistic.

>>9671945
>becoming a balding, weak fatass before the age of 30
What kind of subhuman disgrace are you?
Maintaining even a basic degree of fitness will ensure you're vigorous well into one's 60s

>>9671950
>Maintaining even a basic degree of fitness will ensure you're vigorous well into one's 60s

It won't stop you from balding though.

>>9671956
It can indirectly do so through stress reduction, they've found

>>9671950
I'm not talking about people that bald based on their genetics. I'm saying those with a full head of hair notice thinning hair in their 30's. Some late 20's. Exercise will not change it.

>>9672037
>I'm not talking about people with shitty genetics
>I'm actually talking about people with shitty genetics

>>9670025
>Mars colonization

>>9671303
>also holy fuck the rosetta mission was one of the most complex space maneuvers in history, and it went extremely well in respect of that fact

A complex failure.

>>9672060
Are you the same dude every time?

>>9672060
You're late lad, where were you?
Is something wrong?

>>9670067
Space travel isn't really viable anyway. What's the point when there's heaps of problems on Earth.
Space travel is for soyboys

9672107

YESSSS MARS HE WE COME BABY!

>>9672108
>fishing pole
it's called a fishing ROD you brainlet

MAAAAAAARRRRSSSS

>>9672110
>>9672121
I prefer your shitposting to the shilling
at least you try to be funny with it, the shills are just stale

>>9672052
Wait until to get your 30 year old first arthritis pains in the knees or maybe back sciatica. Oh man you are going to love aging!

>>9672132
>getting arthritis pains at fucking 30
good god, how hard did you lose the genetic lottery
holy fuck, at least take basic care of your body you quintessential mall sharter, you can prevent a good chunk of the problems doing it

>>9672122
One little rock under that tarp cuts a huge gash up his leg.

>>9671307
Domes are locidynamic. Easier to propel through space.

Just look at this >>9671326 stupid ass rectangle.
You try pushing that through space, all the edges will catch funny whenever space bends.

>>9672221
>You try pushing that through space, all the edges will catch funny whenever space bends.

It would be made on Mars, with Martian concrete and glass.

>>9670227
>someone doenst remember the sexism scandal
Thanx for reminding

>>9671740
http://video.vanityfair.com/watch/the-new-establishment-summit-who-is-the-smartest-ceo-in-the-world

>>9672298
CEASE

>>9672221
What, do you think they will strap a dome to the top of a rocket all the way to Mars?

>>9672258

9672344
You aren't even trying anymore

>>9672333
That's the only explanation I can think of.

>>9670604
Except comets have tails and asteroids don't. A popular theory was most of Earth's water came from comets, landing on a comet was a way to explore that theory.

Baseline is, we didn't really know what differences there would be until we landed on one.

>>9670025
>colonists or workers
Would colonists not work? Are you asking if fucking NEETs would be sent to space?

>>9671557
>try again, now what needs fixing
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Space_Station_maintenance
Everything almost always. It is like your car except it was made in the 70s and has never turned off

>>9671570
Yes. From what I have seen primary NASA research is landing rovers that dig, use the material to harvest some supplies minerals, then use the leftovers to make a mars concrete that is then 3d printed by other rovers into subterranean facilities. First visitors would drive a truck into the structure, and install life support while living out of the truck. By the time we finish automated construction there might even be advanced enough robots to install much of the systems automatically. Or possibly via some virtual augment reality user on earth controlling a DARPA bipedal roboto

>>9672065
No, it was the first time humans ever tried to harpoon a space rock. It went about as well as expected.

>>9672132
>Having arthritis and back pain at 30
>Balding at 30
>Being this anon
corpus vile
Throw yourself from a tower and wish for a more sudden stop than the ground

>>9672726
anon, like 20% of the male population starts balding in their late 20s

>>9672708
>Ancient space station made by shithead contractors
vs
>Brand new shiny rockets engineered and tested to the highest standards

>>9672753
>muskfags unironically believe their rocket wont need repairs on a duration of 6 fucking months

>>9672717
>Harpoon

You clearly have no idea about the Rosetta mission

They successfully landed on a moving asteroid (the hard part) but landed in a communications black spot so couldn't do anything after landing

Hey you guys remember that Mars One bullshit?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_One

And all the retards that bought into it?

Honestly, it makes me giggle hysterically to this day.

>>9672788
literally the same thing with spacex fans who unironically think they will go to mars holy kek

>>9671570
>So you believe that we are going to drill down and put a habitat before the first people get there?
Skylights exist.

>>9672983
>muskfags unironically believe they will have an underground colony on mars which we can even do on earth only with hard difficulties

>>9673000
Underground isn't really good real estate here since it can get dank.

>>9673004
no, its because tunneling is difficult and expensive as fuck

>>9670106
>taking care not to flip the fucking thing
>not putting wheels in the roof of your rover

>>9672776
fuck you and fuck off
don't you lump a shill with the rest of us you cockmongling fuckstick

>>9673000
Just dig a hole and cover it with a hatch lmao

>>9673313
and die from asphyxiation lmao

>>9673351
Dude just install an oxygen machine lmao

>>9670227
>sexism scandal
Who cares, they landed a comet on a probe.

>>9671313
Invisible?

>>9671576

>living on the surface of mars would expose you to about 88 millisieverts per year.

Not true, radiation from cosmic rays leads to 200-300 mSv per year on the surface of Mars, and that oncludes inside of habitats. You at least need several meters of soil on top of the habitat to shield against those. Limited stays on the surface are very much possible, tough.

>>9673351
there isn't any air on mars anyway
you'd asphyxiate regardless of the hatch unless you have an oxygen generator

>>9673485
the point is for efficient oxygen supply the habitat needs to be hermetically sealed
thats why using lava tubes is retarded

>>9673423
Underground.

>>9670025
Mars colonies are a meme (having kids in 0.3g = not possible) from one of the most dishonest companies in the history of private space travel. Seriously each launch following the Falcon family as they “revolutionize the launch industry” has been indistinguishable from the rest. Aside from the meme landings, the company’s only party trick has been to overwork and underpay its employees to reduce launch costs, all to make the mythical “full and rapid reuse” seem effective.

Perhaps the die was cast when Musk vetoed the idea of ambitious yet realistic missions like Red and Grey Dragon; he made sure the company would never be mistaken for an innovative force to anything or anybody, just ridiculously questionable government contracts for his companies. SpaceX might be profitable (or not), but it’s certainly the anti-NASA in its refusal of wonder, science and excitement. No one wants to face that fact. Now, thankfully, they no longer have to.

>a-at least the landings are cool though
"No!"
The camerawork is dreadful; the landings of the charred boosters are boring. As I watch, I noticed that every time a Falcon 9 lands, Musk said either “self-sustaining civilization on Mars” or “imagine if you had a 747 and you threw it away after one flight.”

I began marking on the back of an envelope every time one of those phrases was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. Musk's mind is so governed by clichés that he has no other style of thinking. Later I read a poorly-written news story on SpaceX by some fat web blogger. He wrote something to the effect of, "If these kids are watching these launches now, surely they will work for SpaceX in the future and they too can have paychecks based off of government handouts." And he was quite right. He was not being ironic. When you are a SpaceX fan, you are, in fact, trained to be a mindless supporter of government-funded billionaires.

>>9673793
this, but unironically

>>9672708
>>9672753
>>9672776
In due fairness the ISS being designed by multiple different countries did make maintenance issues more problematic.

That said SpaceX or anyone else is still going to have ongoing maintenance on Mars and because it is so far from Earth they are going to need a boat load of spare parts for everything. One is none and two is one applies to Earth. On Mars one is negative two and four is two.

Spacex is a meme stop this idioicy.

>>9670025
naah you need to be a black woman to make it

This is what the first houses and greenhouses will look like

>>9674196
how the fuck do you want to fit a tunnel machine into a flimsy rocket with only 100 ton capacity

>>9674200
Ship it in multiple parts and assemble on site. An 8' 6" TBM cutting head, one that's designed where weight is not a concern, masses around 40 metric tons.

Reddit meme frauds getting BTFO by based Arianespace CEO

>>9674267
Lol the dinosaurs are sperging out about SpaceX again, they do this regularly and you can literally smell them sweating from here.

>>9674270
Stop responding to it you shit eating retard

>>9674267
>360kg lander
lmao it's nothing

>>9672785
The lander touched down, attempted to harpoon itself to the surface, failed, and bounced across the surface a few times until it landed under a rocky outcropping.

>>9674271
>Reddit in charge of recognizing sarcasm

>>9671231
For you

>>9673793
>(having kids in 0.3g = not possible)
Test-tube babies in centrifuges when?

>>9674290
Method was sound - shitty harpoon launchers froze up - something they realized was going to happen while the thing was on its way.

Awfully expensive boo-boo, but at least they shut up all the electric universe folks who said comets were balls of plasma. (Oh, wait... They're still going, aren't they?)

giant ballute?

>>9673793
>Mars colonies are a meme (having kids in 0.3g = not possible) from one of the most dishonest companies in the history of private space travel. Seriously each launch following the Falcon family as they “revolutionize the launch industry” has been indistinguishable from the rest. Aside from the meme landings, the company’s only party trick has been to overwork and underpay its employees to reduce launch costs, all to make the mythical “full and rapid reuse” seem effective.
Everything after was stale pasta

>>9674514
>giant ballute?

Presumably, but it won't happen with the next launch. TESS' upper stage is being disposed of with a solar orbit.

>>9674555
oh of course. I'm guessing the next CRS one, unless NASA doesn't want them messing around with the rocket

>>9674557
>oh of course. I'm guessing the next CRS one, unless NASA doesn't want them messing around with the rocket

NASA probably won't have anything to say about it. The CRS contract is fairly flexible about these things. As far as I know, approach distances and fuel reserves are the only thing SpaceX should have to worry about with the upper stage.

>>9674562
hm, it will have to be a CRS mission actually. or else they'd have to redesign the payload interfaces / dispensers (iridium) to detach or something like that

>>9674514
>This is gonna sound crazy, but ...
Rockets already do.

more balloon details

>>9674214
Do you realize how complex tunnel machines are? It is not feasible for a Mars colony to use something like that for a long time. Right now just drilling for ice is going to be extremely painful.

>>9674576
moar

>>9674618
>Do you realize how complex tunnel machines are? It is not feasible for a Mars colony to use something like that for a long time. Right now just drilling for ice is going to be extremely painful.

For you.

I do realize it. Elon realizes it far more than I do.

>>9674678
>buy used TBM
>hire some people
>figure out what makes it tick
>give them incentives to make it go faster
>wait
>now take your new superspeed TBM tech and apply it to mars
>now you have your mars habitats

>>9674689
And how do you power a 26 megawatt tunnel boring machine on Mars?

>>9674923
get NASA off their ass and saturate kilopower with funding

>>9674649

What's a bouncy house? It's he talking about a moon stepper?

>>9674956
Okay you did that. Now you need to send 26,000 1kw rtg's...lol

>>9674960
Mr. Steven probably. Or some planned iteration of it.

>>9674964
I'm sure they could reduce the power needed for a mars specific TBM

moar updates

9m diameter seems to be set in stone

>>9671531
>getting fucked up because living in 0.3g for a while
You sound pathetic. Humans aren't fish, we can handle being in a slightly wrong environment just fine. Worst case scenario - you work out regularly but still feel like a couch potato (without suffering obesity). Not too bad.

>>9675029
imagine being so delusional you unironically think a company which can even barely send stuff into orbit will be launching fucking tunnel machines on mars in the next 20 years
>>9674214
ah yes by the neets who have nothing to do on the spaceship, amiright

>>9675085
>barely send stuff into orbit
el oh el

>>9674923
>26 Megawatt
>on a planet with 0.38g of gravity
>and a porous crust (https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2017/new-gravity-map-suggests-mars-has-a-porous-crust/)) with density at least 40% lower than Earth's oceanic crust
It's easy - you build a small fucking reactor. Here's one putting out ~10 MW, built in 1970s in Chukotka, as close to Mars a climate as possible on this fucking planet. https://www.uxc.com/smr/uxc_SMRDetail.aspx?key=EGP-6

>>9675095
>lol just build a fucking reactor
>>9675087
>tfw your only launch past geosynchronous was a retarded car which only weighs 2 tonnes and you couldnt even launch it into its designated orbit

>>9675103
ooop, you went a bit too far there. If you had dialed it down a smidge I would still have thought you were serious but nope, just another le funny trolle.

7/10 work on it

>>9675105
>heh you made an argument but i'll just assume you're a troll because i cant handle criticism and have no valid counterpoints

>>9675103
>lol just build a fucking reactor
Yup. Nuclear reactors are flying around you in space since the 1980s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosmos_954 as a basic example, Soviets never gave a shit about dangers of launching a hunk of near-critical Uranium into orbit. It was launched on a tiny converted ICBM, for fucks sake, not a super-heavy purpose-built launch system.

Imagine not giving a fuck about cooling the reactor giving off a few MW. Imagine using a massive turbine in lower gravity. Imagine not giving a fuck about using water vapor that passed through the turbine in a close cycle or even cycling that water through your life support too. Also,
>what is a nuclear submarine

>>9675110
The fact that you thought there was a designated orbit for the roadster means that
A) you’re dumb and didn’t listen to the post launch conference or do any other research
B) you’re a troll
C) both

>>9675113
> A malfunction prevented safe separation of its onboard nuclear reactor; when the satellite reentered the Earth's atmosphere the following year, it scattered radioactive debris over northern Canada, prompting an extensive cleanup operation known as Operation Morning Light.
top example lad
if you unironically believe musk "solar power is the future" will use nuclear reactors, and even if, somebody would allow it, then I have some bad news for you

>>9675116
>The fact that you thought there was a designated orbit for the roadster means that
shall I show you some of musks tweets?
>listen to the POST launch conference
top kek

>>9675121
>be NASA
>launch a hunk of plutonium into space every few years
>no one bats an eye

>be Russia
>have a fleet of defunct nuclear reactors chilling in high orbit
>everything is fine

>be SpaceX
>think about launching a few tonnes of subcritical uranium in sealed containers, a few at a time, just to get your drills running before the solar panel fields are set up
>somehow everyone should lose their collective shit

>>9675129
>I listed two harmless and one dangerous thing
>see, its totally the same!

He’s clearly just doing this to get yous, can we agree to ignore him other anon? Please. I’m too tired to respond to this sort of stuff any more, no matter if it’s snarkily or genuine.

>>9675132
>oh no im tired of arguing with other anons because my arguments are too weak and i come from r/spacex where weirdly enough everyone agrees with me

>>9675130
>harmless
>dangerous
Buddy, I see you have a toddler's understanding of what are the risks with handling fissile material. Go read something more detailed than the Popup Book of Science for Kids you learned your physics from.

>>9670640
>one way ticket
pretty sure he said it doesn't matter if you choose to come back since vessel will be reusable

>>9670720
not that anon, but he is saying the cost is cheaper if the ship and equipment can be used many times. see: musk's plane ticket analogy

>>9675137
>using nuclear reactors near humans in space has never been attempted even the soviets arent that crazy
lets just do it!
>>9675145
>muh reusability
as I said, even if you drive down the cost to one percent which is go-like price reduction and cant even be achieved with perfect reusability, its still expensive as fuck for the average passenger. there will never be an "anyone gets to fly" because the cost/profit ratio is only feasible when the passengers pay themselves

>>9674576
his favourite word is mach, I think

>>9675153
yee but what about. civil rights? BLM in space? how dare musk only want to take the rich to mars. equality.

>>9675165
lol im as capitalist as you get, it was in response to the neets in this thread thinking they will go to mars

>>9675153
I again refer you to
>what is a nuclear submarine
Also, the idea is to assemble the reactor from large-ish system blocks in-situ, not to haul the whole thing all the way to Mars while it's running. Even though, again, there's literally no problem for us to put a bunch of men into a sealed pressurized closed-cycle compartment for half a year, right next to a running nuclear reactor.

>>9675170
and who will build it?

>>9675177
Don't know, don't care. All I am saying is that your argument on the lack of energy to operate a drill to get into lava tubes is bs.

>>9675180
you mean
>its bs because i can use scifi elements that arent feasible with current technology and will not be feasible for the next 20 years

>>9675185
Every single piece of tech I mentioned is in the operation since at least 1980s. If that's sci-fi for you, I suggest looking at a calendar.

Please stop feeding the troll guys.

>>9675190
>transporting giant masses of trchnology to FUCKING MARS, assembling it there and making it work there is all possible with current technology
how more delusional can you get
>>9675191
go back to r*ddit pussy

He gets really butthurt when you don't give him (You)s

>>9675194
>55 MWe reactor with a mass of 1200 tonnes (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%98%D0%A2%D0%9C_200))
>downscalable if necessary
>all with outdated Russian tech
Or, if you prefer your stuff made in the West:
>9 feet diameter (2.74 meters) by 65 feet high (19.81 meters) and weigh 650 tons (590 metric tons) at 50 MWe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuScale_Power))
>again, dowscalable
That is quite a lot, I grant you, but that's 4 launches of the BFR, which is, conceptually, a fluke, and 50 MWe is a lot of energy to utilize. We built ISS, weighing about as much, with way weaker rockets than those Musk promises.I am not saying he's going to deliver those, but on Earth's side of the project we have stuff covered pretty damn well.

>>9675214
tell me, how much would a simple mars station with a boring drill, nuclear reactors and habitats weigh?

>>9675214
>comparing a modular spacestation in LEO in a zero-gravity environment to a distant mars base on a surface

>>9675214
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuScale_Power
>lightwater cooling

Forget that on Mars.

>>9675235
Irrelevant question. The buildings are supposed to be made of locally produced concrete. I wouldn't be amazed if all the necessary stuff you have to ship (reactor/panels, batteries, drill, ISRU units for regolith-to-concrete production, decently big MOXIE and life support systems) would total at under 1500 tonnes.
I am on my phone and it's hard to multitask, but pretty sure that Atomic Rockets site should have some calculations made over the decades, every time a new idea or approach pops up.

>>9675250
fine, lets assume thats true (although also very debatable)
how much do you think one bfr launch will cost?

>>9675248
>Caring about cooling at -60 all day every day
This particular design might not be feasible, but the point stands - you can make a reactor light enough to transport it in a sane amount of pieces.

>>9675257

Mars atmosphere is useless for cooling. It's basically a vacuum. Mars isn't a real planet. It's a giant asteroid disguised as a planet. When you build habitats on the surface, you're really building space habitats with none of the advantages of zero-g.

A mars city/colonization is so retarded. It's like saying "hey, let's build a city on top of mount everest so we are safe from the rise of the sea level." Except there is no indicator whatsoever that the sealevels are going to raise that significantly. And even if it was, building a city on top of Mount Everest would not be the smartest thing to do.

It's really the same thing with a city on Mars. There is no indication that a really catastrophic extinction event is going to happen that sterilizes the planet completely and rids away all its water ressources. And even if it did, you would have better chances to secure the longterm survival of the human species by living in the old nuclear war bunker infrastructures. Some of them were made to be housing hundreds of people and be self-sufficient for centuries. Plus, gravity is exactly 1g, so no jello babies. Odds of survival there are much bigger than on Mars.

>>9675260
>Mars atmosphere is useless for cooling

WRONG try again

>>9675263

The real reason is that once you're set up on the planet you have complete control over who comes to Mars. You can finally get away from niggers and muslims. It's hardly a secret that this is why Elon is trying so hard for this.

>>9675264
lol imagine being this retarded

>>9675252
Don't forget that as it is conceptualized, for 150 tonnes going to Mars, the BFS needs to be refueled 8 times in LEO, so you need 9 BFR launches to send 150 tonnes to Mars.

>>9675270
>18m for 150t to Mars

That's 30% the cost of one Falcon 9 launch, it might as well be fucking free at that price.

>>9675257
You do reaize though the temperature on Mars is not always -60 and can go up to 50 degrees on day-time?

>>9675275
>30% of the cost of a falcon 9 launch
literally impossible

>>9675275
>He unironically believes the bullshit numbers put up by Elon

>>9675276

Yes, and this just proves that the air there is useless for cooling. If it had any thermal mass this wouldn't happen.

>>9675277
>>9675278
>t. Increasingly nervous ULA employees

>>9675289
It's Elon who didn't deliever on re-using Falcon 9s yet. Landing is all good and fine, but why is he not re-using them multiple times?

>inb4 "you just wait the next rocket is going to be the one that is going to be re-usable"

Why don't we just senf a constellation of satellites with solar powered lasers to orbit Mars' equator for the next however many years, and set them to all burn a pit somewhere on the equator. As each satellite moves out of position it turns off to recharge, and the next one starts burning. Over a decade or whatever, we'll have a nice deep hole to collect atmosphere, and just stop drilling when the ambient temperature gets too high. Obviously it would get colder at first due to the lack of sunlight, but Mars isn't cold and dead inside. Eventually you'd get areothermal heating, and now your pressure barrier doesn't need to be as strong because all the poison atmosphere fell in the hole.

>>9675293
>this is your mind on musk
>>9675289
>tfw you dont have any counterarguments so you resort to calling people shills

>>9675297
Don't pretend it's not possible. My Uncle Sam's attaching red white and blue lasers to his dick right this very minute.

This one sounds like a really good, practical plan to really start colonizing space, and it doesn't involve spending trillions on a jello-baby factory on Mars:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxftPmpt7aA

>>9675308
>Colonising anything at ULA prices

Absolutely laughable.

YFW Elon literally is stealing ULA's concept of re-use by iflatable heat shields, parachute and mid-air capture:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/985655249745592320

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lftGq6QVFFI

Soyboys forever BTFO.

>>9675318
>all these soyboys replying to his tweet
"musky, you sent A CAR into space, you can do anything!!!"
"elon can do anything!"
"and thats why spacex is winning"
jesus christ.

>>9675293
I don't think I've seen anything of sorts proposed yet. The problem is that the deeper you drill, the shorter the laser drilling orbit segment window gets. Even if you make a 50m wide hole, you can only drill so long before that window is microsecond long. A better idea, if you're hellbent on drilling it TO THE CORE, would be to make a constellation of power collecting and transmitting sats in different orbits and one areostationary drilling satellite. Or, at this point, a ground-based drilling station with power being beamed down to it by mazers.

>>9675318
>inflatable heat shields
NASA
>parachute
Da Vinci
>mid-air capture
CIA in mid 1960s
ULA got nothing. Neither does SoyX.

>>9675324
>areostationary
>being this much of an autism

>>9675325
>someone used an uncommon but correct term
>he must be autistic
I bet you conflate heliocentric and geocentric systems, fella.

>>9675328

How do you talk about rotation synchronized orbits around other bodies? Like for eg Pallas? Or Ganymede?

>>9675329
areostationary is specifically for mars you retard

>>9675335

Yes I know, so what special autism word do you have for Ceres? Now how about 5 Astraea?

>>9675329
Huh, great question. I suppose the generic term is just Synchronous orbit. Earth, Moon, Sun and now Mars (and Jupiter, for that matter) are important enough to have designated Greek- or Latin-derived prefixes. Should, say, Ganymede become a serious object of study and development, it would probably get a 'Cata-' prefix, for Ganymede's Latin name Catamitus.

>>9675336
you do know that the GEO is also specifically for earth? so I could ask you the same

>>9675340

Of course. Common usage has given "geostationary" the meaning of "synchronous with the planet in question", so since we're using english we would simply say "geostationary orbit around Mars". We aren't using Latin where we need to treat the first part of the word like an inflection.

>>9670025
SpaceX want only 2 types of people on Mars in this century.

(1) Top Scientists and Engineers preferably with Air-force experience

(2) Billionaires willing to pay billions

If you are hoping to menial jobs such as Janitor you are out of luck since janitor Jobs will be automated with Slave Robots.

In future, plebeans will be allowed.

>>9675346
>Slave Robots
Redundant.

>>9675337
>Catamit

Interestingly, the term "catamite" means "buttboy", which indeed was Ganymede's role in Greek mythology. He was a very beautiful Trojan youth who was was kidnapped by Zeus to serve as his round-the-clock buttslut for all eternity.

>>9675346
Lmao what billionaire is going to pay billions of dollars to live on a desert shithole with none of the billion dollar lifestyle?

>>9675360

No laws on Mars, so he can have unlimited catamite slaves.

>>9675363
But there won't be enough rockets to bring the slaves or goods for a rich cunt lifestyle.

>>9675366

Jello babies have the most pliant boipussies.

>>9675346
General AI is in less than mouse stage for next decades.

Just got even

L O N G E R

O

N

G

E

R

>>9675417
>muskfags so obsessed with their rocket they even compare 3d rendering sizes of it

>>9675318
SpaceX is going to actually do it though

>>9675438
lol

>>9675417
That’s actually due to the screen ratio of the display that was showing it. People did further analysis and it turns out it wasn’t stretched at all, despite what Elon’s tweet said

>>9675538
another case of elon bullshitting once again

>>9675541
what, no? it was the incorrect aspect ratio of the random TV that was showing shotwell's TED talk. Now that some actual slides have been released we know that it wasn't stretched the 5m or so that was thought.

>>9671007
give me a commercial private entity that is capable of outspending the us gov or the EU

You are beyond retarded and have no conception of economics or anti trust law

>>9670321
>HAHAHAxDDDD weather = climate i am so smart

>>9675264
your grasp of thermodynamics is wrong and you should try again

>>9674964

Kilopower is not an RTG, it is a reactor, and the concept can be scaled up to handful of megawatts

>>9675121

>if you unironically believe musk "solar power is the future" will use nuclear reactors

Musk is pro-nuclear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM-RpJX35Sc

>>9676105
He’s said in the past that one of the main reasons they haven’t been working on nuclear propulsion is that the permits for testing the stuff on the ground is super convoluted. You have to have a sophisticated scrubbing system for the test stand

>>9675545
He did say it had gotten longer tho...

>>9676305
“Maybe”
They probably just haven’t updated the cgi

>>9676305
It literally says right there in the 2017 IAC presentation that the booster stats are PRELIMINARY

You redditors are so fucking dense it's unbelievable.

>>9670138
>this fantasy is akin to joining a monastery to not have to deal with life.
A bit like working in research, in other words.

>>9670287
>self-sustaining colony in Antarctica, Chile did this back in the 80s
Big cite? on that one.