/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9642452
>Constantly bombard yourself with serotonin and dopamine.
>Calloused receptors, improper S&D production
>'imbalanced' because you're not getting the same amount of chemicals as you get older and more used to things in life
>Better take your meds to accommodate for the addiction you were programed to have since before you knew the words.

I suppose they're OK if you're weak willed and can't break the sadness like withdraw from any other addiction.

>depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain
Fucking kek, keep taking your placeb-I mean antidepressants goyim!!!

>>9642496
>>9642503
The funny thing about depression is that you never truly understand the experience until it happens to you.

Happened to me. It was very apparent that something was seriously wrong in my brain. Nothing in my life was causing it, and the things I typically enjoy would do nothing to help. The antidepressants don't make you happy, they don't get you high. Drugs that get you high will alleviate the problem temporarily (I started to drink a lot), but only antidepressants can fix it. I've been really sad before, I've been in a long rut, but it's a different feeling than having depression.

The side effects of the antidepressants are shitty though. It was a huge relief when I was able to get off them.

>>9642496
Except statistically almost none of your claims are supported. You don't hear the millions of success stories about SSRIs.

>>9642538
>The funny thing about depression is that you never truly understand the experience until it happens to you
Thats bullshit.

Its also rediculous to think you suddenly understand other peoples depression because you were depressed one time.

Like wew you are a tool

>>9642550
Ok buddy, keep telling people to just stop being sad.

>>9642550
>Thats bullshit.
You're very special, anon.

>>9642503
>placeb-I mean antidepressants goyim!!!
>>>/pol/
you have to go back

>>9642550
>Nu uh
>ur dumb
>Wew

>>9642452
>chemical imbalance in the brain
>literally a concept with zero scientific backing
>a concept created by pharmaceutical industries to sell SSRI's

If depression is brought on by a chemcial imbalance, why do we diagnose it with subjective statements from the patient, and not a brain scan? Because almost all of psychology is a fraud with no basis in reality. Depression is obviously real because people do kill themselves, but just ayy lmao if you think the """science""" is settled on it being a """chemical imbalance"""". Seriously there is about zero evidence that a lack of serotonin causes depression. I unironically agree with that terrible facebook pic.

>>9642550
>Thats bullshit.
>rediculous to think you suddenly understand other peoples depression
you contradict yourself, moron
also not everyone gets real depression, feeling sad that one time doesn't mean you actually had it

>>9642575
>here is about zero evidence that a lack of serotonin causes depression.
Have you researched how SSRI's are thought to work and what we know they do? We dont have a good indicator as to why what they do works to be fair but we do to some understanding of the effects they cause.

>>9642575
Yeah, and there are medicines, like aspirin, that are safe and more effective at improving mood than SSRIs. Aspirin even improves intellectual performance.

Medicine is a con.

>>9642586
>Medicine is a con.
Except for whatever bullshit you want to believe about aspirin?

>>9642572
Kill yourself

>>9642452
It has been proven that antidepressants work less and less well compared to placebos as time wents on (I mean compared to ca. 1990 to now).
Make of that what you will.
Also, Modafinil>>>>>SSRI

>>9642592
Also, source, since some faggot will come in here and talk shit since he is too dumb to use google.
>For example, in early 2002, Merck pharmaceuticals was on the verge of releasing a promising new antidepressant (codenamed MK-869). The development and preliminary testing of MK-869 had been exorbitantly expensive, but it was about to pay off. MK-869 had performed brilliantly in early clinical trials — better than several other popular antidepressants on the market. In what has become an increasingly common story, plans for releasing MK-869 ultimately came to a halt after evidence accumulated that the new medication failed to outperform a placebo treatment. For pharmaceutical companies, the growing power of antidepressant placebos is a vexing problem, resulting in a substantially reduced investment in this area.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/straight-talk/201803/the-curious-case-the-growing-placebo-effect

>>9642590
Or, you know, I have read actual peer reviewed research instead of selecting the medicine that provides the doctor the biggest kickbacks.

>>9642583
I didn't contradict anything. Depression is irrational. It does not make logical sense. Its not something you can understand.

Depression is unique to the individual.

Its that simple.

/r/murderedbywords is the smuggest place on the internet.

>>9642452
What causes the so-called "chemical imbalance"? Your environment and decisions/actions mean nothing? Genetics may PREDISPOSE you to depression, but it is absurd to totally give up your agency and believe you are a victim to your genes. Thinking this way is perfect for pharmaceutical companies. If you are just a passive being who needs to be corrected by drugs the drugs are your only option. So despite being at worst no better than placebo, at best as efficacious as talk therapy, and not even understood in terms of their mechanism of action the populace will swallow them down unthinkingly.

>>9642633
Prevention and treatment are two very different things. Once you have it you can't tell the person to go back in time and do the proper actions to avoid it.

>>9642591
If your response to a question on /sci/ involves "goyim" You dont belong on /sci/
>>>/pol/
Go home.

>>9642649
I would tell the person to at this very moment make some basic decisions that will make them feel better, eat well and exercise. If they continue to be depressed give psychotherapy to challenge their maladaptive thought processes. Only if these basic interventions have not succeeded should pharmacotherapy be considered. It is a very desperate last ditch attempt. The biggest issue is these drugs being prescribed as first line treatment.

>>9642575
>>9642586
>>9642596
>>9642633
Damn right fellas! Told them Kike-cucks right in the face! Medicine and depression is just a ruse by Big Pharma aka ZOG to get more money while they degrade the white man amirite? Kekistan forever!

Depression is a reaction formation when confronted about xenophobic and isolationist and selfish ideals they feel.

They know being a selfish dick is bad becuase it doesnt give them social points so instead of being a dick to others they are big dicks to themselves.

>>9642752
>Tfw leftist and still miserable

Pills are helpful to "keep you going".

Catharsis happens for everyone.
Can be obtained through meditation,yoga,mindfullness,cbt,dbt,or behavior mod. "Investigative journalism" may have similar effects.
And living with realizations are much better than "taking them to their graves".
We just need to be patient.
Im not even sure people know what being patient even means anymore.
No one really knows the meaning of BEING a patient either.

>>9642452
you have to go back

>>9642752
>depression is all about my political buzzwords
Words cannot express how much I fucking hate people like you

>>9642752

>>9642575
just because its not caused by a chemical imbalance doesn't mean medication can't help.
>>9642496
almost nothing of this is verified scientifically let alone in consensus.
>>9642585
we are not sure how they work. even if are ssri's we don't know the mechanisms of how they work. for instance we have no idea why it takes so long for them to start to work.
its also probably naïve to say serotonin is the only cause.
>>9642592
as with every other therapy.

>>9642770
Thats usually becuase theres a truth there that your ego doesn't want to face.

When you get depressed you tend to physically remove yourself from other people. And people are naturally xenophobic. They are always startled or taken off guard or worried if there is something they havent seen before.

You were probably punished when you were younger, or felt that way. So you've internalized punishment for not being a good person. Usually that means that you hate life becuase you fail at life with gf, school, work, hygeine, health, fitness, money , sports , art etc...
Or you have a secret desire to be a dick but would feel bad if you did. Kinda like catholic guilt.

>>9642794
>based on a single one-line 4chan post, I have "psychoanalyzed" you by writing a half-assed Barnum effect paragraph that literally any human could relate to by failing at anything in their life
You're an idiot. Stop trying to act like a television character.

>>9642704
>Get triggered by factual studies
Sure showed me, faggot

>>9642811
Im sorry to sound so accusatory.
Let me spell it out.
-Anger happens and rage happens when the ego has trouble incorporating something different into its worldview or schema
-Depressed people dont usually hang out with others
-Depressed people hate themselves, have self esteem issues.
-This is from some confrontation in a real life expierence that they have feelings of inadequacy about.

People like to pretend their depressed as a way to mask their true feelings. This is the most dangerous case of "depression". This is even worse becuase you are using a fake it to make it approach to something where the solution has always been to confront these emotions and feelings.
When you feel ready yes.
But you will always feel depressed or anxious until you can deal with those things.

Depression is a useful mask. But wear it only when you have too.

But you are right i dont know everyone on an individual level. Like i dont know your name or where you live or what you had for lunch or that last thing you mom said to you.

But we are both characters in a story. The sooner you accept that the sooner you can quit beating youself up over that.

>>9642452
>Is this redditor right

Probably not.

>>9642704
Cringe

>>9642452
>attempted suicide 3 times

imagine being this desperate for attention

>>9642452
>ITT: retards arguing about reddit
good job

>>9642842
There's a difference between fake depression and real depression.

>>9642618
So you're telling me that you don't understand depression

Because it isn't something you can understand

So you're going completely off script when you say it's unique to the individual

Because you can't understand how it works and how it affects people

Huh

>>9642903
>reddit spacing anon defending reddit posters

hmm

>>9642911
The guy he's replying to has Reddit spacing....

Maybe there is no such thing as Reddit spacing?

>>9642885
Only for little while.
Until you start to believe it
And forget why you were drpressed in the first place
Just one thing...
After another...
After another...

>>9642921
maybe youre just an idiot that doesnt understand first grade grammar

>>9642921
this whole thread is full of you redditors, because you all feel like you know shit about things you've never encountered in your life

>>9642842
4/10

when your comfortzone is feeling sad and miserable you are depressed

>>9642452
People act like there are very specific chemical imbalances identified in depressed people and that these medicines accurately address those chemical imbalances.

If that were true, there would be testing for these chemical imbalances, yet there is no testing done before most SSRI's and equivalents are prescribed.

Anti-depressants are a shotgun approach that jumble up your neurotransmitters in various ways, and this change can sometimes have positive effects short term, but can also have negative effects both short and long term. However, in most cases people get used to the new chemistry after a while and the bad life patterns/relationships/habits they are stuck with , and they get depressed again.

In my experience, the anti depressants can put a limiting effect on how bad you feel, and that can help people from plummeting into despair, but there are many downsides long term also.

I think they might be useful for 6 to 12 months as long as someone uses that time to identify and make changes in their life, but beyond that I'm not sure they are useful in all cases. The problem is big pharma wants people on their meds for life and encourages long term courses of anti-depressants for everyone, regardless of if they need them that long of not.

I've seen many psych doctors over the years, and no one has really had any good idea of what my issues are. My main issue is anxiety, but it took decades before I myself realized that, and also realized that the anti-depressants I was taking actually increased my anxiety greatly. My guess is about 5% of psych doctors are actually experts and can properly identify symptoms and can tailor the meds to the patients actual needs, and the rest literally don't know what they are doing and are just going by what the manual says to do (if patient is depressed, give one of these meds and see if it works, if it doesn't, switch to the next med).

>>9642794

>>9642842
I think you should talk to someone who has suffered depression.

>>9642911
>>9642965
I've never been on reddit but I just get so happy fucking with 4chan
it's a genuine pleasure
I don't even give a shit about the conversation, I'd argue the other side if it made you angry

>>9642538
First OP you quoted here.
I understand, but I've been to doctors who have classified my outlook on life and the things I've said as me having severe depression despite explaining every reason for why I believed these issues to be the real problem. But nope, med up Anon, eat your antidepressants in this depressed world.
You can either recognize the system and fight it and be your own person and be all the better for it because if you can break that cycle you can do fucking anything.
Or capitulate, lay down, and take the easy path where the lack of motivation and ambient sadness with no source(because you haven't really looked) is normal and just eat your way to a 'normal' life with as little action as possible on your part.
I guess both of these paths are really telling of who you will be as a person.

>>9643317
Why use three paragraphs when all you want to say is "I can`t form a coherent argument or opinion so I shitpost"?

>>9643331
Whats your take on people suffering from bipolar disorder, or any other affective disorder really, then?

>>9642452
what kind of fucking loser isn't able to kill themselves after 3 attempts? They obviously didn't actually want to die.

>>9643359
>tfw my dad attempted suicide 5 times

>>9643433
So he was a failure, just like his son.

>>9643438
Kind of, I think I inherited depression from him although I don't take it seriously since it's all in the head anyway.

>>9643359

I sometimes wonder that if I shoot myself in the head with my own firearm if it is possible to miss vital sections of my brain so much so that I end up like Gabrielle Giffords.

>>9643511
>I think I inherited depression from him although I don't take it seriously since it's all in the head anyway.
Then you don't have depression.

>>9642752
>>9642794

>>9642452
>is this redditor right
No, purely on principle

>>9643543
>le you don't have real depression meme
Maybe I'm just not weak.

>>9643357
Bipolar disorder isn't popular enough to bother getting mad about.

Also you have to admit that anxiety and depression are serious meme illnesses, real as they may be. After getting diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and realizing the extent to which more severe illnesses are trivialized compared to the oh-so-devastating Major Depression, I can't help but feel contempt for those who talk about it openly.

I know. I'm like a racist nigger.

>>9643555
me on the right

The people that don't care already don't but I've been depressed my entire life. First time I contemplated suicide was like 10 and I used to hold a knife over my stomach and try to figure out how I could kill myself with it. I didn't know what depression was when I was a child and it took awhile into teenage years to accept that I had it because I didn't want to be like my mom who is also depressed. I still remember the first time I started taking SSRI's, I walked outside one day and all I could think was "Wow this is what normal people feel like". Before I was still operational, not at my best but I could still do all I needed, go to school, make meals, go to wrestling practice, do homework, sleep, repeat. Each time I did though I was just a hollow shell, imitating the things that I knew happy people did and not wanting to burden another with my "weakness". After I started I suddenly found myself wanting to get up in the morning, I wanted to talk to my friends, I wanted to do something besides atrophy into nothing. I hated being attached to a pill though, I quit a couple times thinking I could live without it. I got through the withdrawals which were rough, and I might even be okay for a little, then I would start to tumble back down. I spent a lot of time and effort figuring out what I need to be efficient and as happy with my life as I can be. I had to start taking antidepressants again, different ones because the others caused intrusive suicidal thoughts that got annoying. I live with my antidepressants cause not taking them slowly wears me down into an awful human being who only lives to die.

The people in this thread talking about how depressed people are just weak for taking medication sounds the exact same to me as someone saying you are weak for taking medication for migraines. Yeah you can learn to live with migraines but it's not gonna make you happy, comfortable, or productive and eventually you might just get tired of dealing with it and kill yourself

>>9642452
Blackpill: Of course they are. They are objectively correct.

Your body tells you when you take things that don't help you.

If you want to kill yourself, it's because you're not happy in your body (which is bound by material needs which you have to work for to whatever degree, which is a bigger part of the problem than we want to address, but that's a different issue).

If you get prescribed medicine, and it helps, then keep taking it. It's not hard.

Psychiatry is driven by a market that assumes that mental illness is predicated on chemicals (this is gonna start to sound like a Scientology rant, but I swear-to-fucking-god it's not. Like, fuck Xenu; god doesn't have a name, if that proves it to you) that are "imbalanced."

But the only data they have is your behavior. Not your feelings. That's why they separated from Psychology, which is about your mental/emotional state. Psychiatry is the pills part.

As a patient, you have to be honest with your doctor. I've had a psychiatrist look me dead in the face after a bitter fight with treatment-resistent bipolar depression and say "You know, maybe you're just not a happy person."

She sighed. I sighed. The toaster sighed. I shot the toaster. It was a triumph.

Point being, the pills didn't work for me, but I'm not you. And we're not the Redditor. It's that simple. We all know people who take psych-meds. If they help, then they should take them. If not, then they need to keep seeking. This isn't rocket science; this is just humans fighting a market that tries to profit on their belief that they're broken.

Logic can fix it, if we think about it and are honest about our observations.

>>9642452
Had major depression for three years and in my third year finally told my doctor about it but the meds only made it worse. What helped was really, really wanting a change and so I started trying to appreciate and love myself. Meditation was a huge help. I think cannabis would have helped too to be entirely honest but my state didn't and still doesn't allow that yet.

>>9642575
Sure is scientology in there

>>9643357
Most likely the same circumstances. Most people would fit personality disorders without actually having them. Schizo typal for one. Made up a word? Schizo Typal. Think aliens could exist? Fantasy thinking. Schizo typal. Mention how in highschool you had low esteem and thought those girls were laughing at you for some unknown reason? Not really. But now you're schizo typal. I use that because that was a secondary diagnosis with my apparently severe depression as well.
I should say I do believe it is possible for people to have these issues for real. Mutations aren't just positive as in evolution, but negative as well. However if you apply every single life event to contributing to some form of mental illness and personality issue I think you would find a psychologist would say every one of those people have underlying issues they weren't aware of. Psychologists nowadays are the equivalent of faith healers of the past.
>I see you recently became sad by a life event
>And this sadness hasn't left you
>It's effecting your life away and makes it hard for you to do anything
Unfortunately its not demons or spirits anymore but 'chemical imbalances' and a way to rid yourself of these unwanted emotions through pills. I have friends with kids who are appalled because every Timmy and Sally in their gated community is on Adderall or Ritalin for their over active behavior and trouble sitting still, but they're kids in elementary school. They were running around having fun or being kids in general. They mention how the kids are practically zombies now and they'll sit quietly in a nearly creepy manner or just watch them while outside.

The need to be seen as normal is the true issue and people will ruin lives exploiting that, thinking they're not normal and trying to fix it, or they'll act it up and take pride in it and hyperbolize their issues or make it a way to get further praise.

>>9644421
Bipolar disorder is a psychotic-mood disorder - not a personality disorder - similar to schizophrenia. Medication is not a recommended treatment for most personality disorders.

What happens with bipolar disorder is, one day, out of the blue, an unhappy person snaps and loses their goddamn mind for about a month. Untreated, the psychosis will resolve, albeit with potential long-term psychological impairment. BUT, bipolar people in the midst of a manic psychosis can be treated mid-episode, and respond unusually well to medication. I don’t know of another mental disorder quite like that - that can flare up and then be completely neutralized via drugs. The only real problem is that these meds, like all drugs, lose effectiveness over time.

>>9642452

So what device does the medical profession use to determine this 'chemical imbalance'? I would love to know what it is.

>>9644421
Adderall is god-tier though, and any parent setting up his or her kids with a lifetime supply while they are still young should get a medal

>>9642654
I'm not that other guy who said to kill yourself, but kill yourself

>>9642452
>Psychiatry
>Real medicine
FUCKING KEK
Chemical imbalance has been thoroughly disproven!

I don't like how people always parrot the "chemical imbalance" line, not because it's wrong but because it's reductionist and only focuses on one layer of the phenomenon.

Yes, depressed people have a chemical imbalance, but they also have brained that are wired differently at a neuroanatomical level, and they have thinking patterns that are more pessimistic than most people, and often they are dealing with social isolation, sleep deprivation, poor diet, and other lifestyle/quality of life problems that feed into their problems.

Also, going for walks outside is helpful for fighting depression, so the guy on the left isn't entirely wrong, even if he or she is also reductionist.

>he UNIRONICALLY, ACTUALLY fell for the """chemical imbalance""" meme
OH NO NO NO NO HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

>>9644577
I'm not depressed and going for walks tends to get me thinking about life (what can I do about this and that and coming up empty and frustrated) and that makes me really fucking sad.

>>9644611
still better than escapism in the long run

>>9644617
>He says to his anonymous friend

>>9644630
I get the feeling you're being ironic, and I'm not that guy, but I actually so consider you guys my friends, and being able to talk to you guys has helped me through some tough times.

>>9642452
We aren't 'meant' to live in the current society. The rate of mental problems in a hunter-gatherer 'society' would be drastically lower; everything in our evolutionary build-in is made for that.
A good hunter-gatherer would be a miserable human today.
When brain chemistry is seriously incompatible with the environment you can either change the environment (go back to the hunter-gatherer life - today impossible; the closest thing is being a tramp) vs change your brain chemistry.

The forest is an 'antidepressant' only when understood as a symbol of primitivism.

>>9644656
>he said on the internet

>>9642503

>>9644577
>sleep deprivation
This actually works against depression.

>>9642602
>peer-reviewed research in life sciences
>having any credibility without replication by multiple teams

I've been diagnosed with legit depression if it matters

1. no such thing as a 'chemical imbalance'
2. all evidence points to the efficacy of antidepressants being nothing more than an 'active placebo' effect, publication bias, fraud, etc
3. tonnes of serious side effects associated with these pills (venlafaxine withdrawla is next level awful)

depression "cure": living more meaningfully, having people rely on you, having things to look forward to, having a close circle of family and friends, not drinking or taking vast amounts of drugs, having a respectable job or career or studying, structuring your time, getting physical exercise, eating decent

also the idea that "depression" is not actually an emotional state is basically the kind of thinking that leads people to stay depressed. it becomes a sort of identity. "I have depression" "I am x and I have y mental illness". So it leads to nonsesnses like a currently happy person can also be depressed.?

>>9644681
elaborate please.

>>9644683
That applies to any scientific / mathematical research, you fucking dolt.

>>9644691
>It may sound counter-intuitive, but for decades it has been known that sleep deprivation can rapidly alleviate symptoms of depression. A new meta-analysis from a team at the University of Pennsylvania has examined more than 30 years worth of studies on the strange phenomenon and concluded that sleep deprivation can result in antidepressant effects in up to 50 percent of people.
>Nearly 200 years ago, a German psychiatrist named Johann Christian August Heinroth successfully experimented with sleep deprivation as a treatment for, what he called at the time "melancholia." Over recent decades the phenomenon has become a major area of study for psychologists and a process called Wake Therapy was developed to quickly alleviate major depressive symptoms and jumpstart treatment with antidepressant drugs.
>In compiling the meta-analysis the team focused on 66 studies (out of a pool of more than 2,000) to understand what variables either increase or decrease the efficacy of a sleep deprivation treatment for depression. In generating its findings the team took into account age, gender, accompanying medications and different types of sleep deprivation (i.e total, partial, early or late).
>The results showed that sleep deprivation was effective across the board, regardless of demographics or delivery technique. In studies with a randomized control group, positive responses were identified 45 percent of the time, while in studies without a control group, positive responses hit 50 percent.
https://newatlas.com/sleep-deprivation-depression/51407/

>>9644696
When was the last time a physics paper had to be retracted? When was the last time math paper had to be retracted? When was the last time CS paper had to be retracted? When was the last time org.chem paper had to be retracted?
We're talking high-impact factor journals, not some obscure "we publish anything as long as you pay" journal.
Research misconduct is not considered normal in other fields, it's just life sciences where photoshopping things like western blot is considered acceptable practice.
If you published fake paper in org.chem, your career would be over. Not so much in biochem where you have to retract 6 papers for research misconduct and still get to keep your proffesorship, position as head of a team at elite research institute and one year later, Nature publishes your shitty paper again.
When i read org.chem paper, my first reaction isn't doubting its validity, unfortunately that has to be your first reaction when dealing with life sciences because it's a field filled with retards that would do anything for a little bit of fame, even kill people (TETRA).

>>9642575
This is what /pol/ does to your brain.

>>9644704
>Not so much in biochem where you have to retract 6 papers for research misconduct and still get to keep your proffesorship, position as head of a team at elite research institute and one year later, Nature publishes your shitty paper again.
Why do I feel like you have something against biochemists

please go back to r*ddit and do not return

>>9642538
>The funny thing about depression is that you never truly understand the experience until it happens to you.
The funny thing about depression is you'll never truly understand pulling yourself out of it because you're a weak willed mental midget who thinks that everybody else is a failure too. Do not attempt to belittle people for doing what you could not. It just makes you more pathetic.

>>9644714
>Hey mang you depressed?
>Yeah
>Like, just stop being depressed its that easy LMFAO you weak willed mental midget XDDDDDD

>>9644714
>Hey mang you got cancer?
>Yeah
>Like, just stop having cancer its that easy LMFAO you weak willed mental midget XDDDDDD

>>9644714
>Hey mang you psychotic?
>Yeah
>Like, just stop being psychotic its that easy LMFAO you weak willed mental midget XDDDDDD

>>9644714
Are you trying to sound tough, or do you actually think your ""advice"" will help people?

>>9644714
>Hey mang you got anxiety?
>Y-yeah
>Like, just stop having anxiety its that easy LMFAO you weak willed mental midget XDDDDDD
Are these enough (You)s for you to stop shitposting for now?

>>9642538
kill yourself depressed nerd

>>9644731
Stop trying to be the "crazy and eccentric but still intelligent" guy

No one gives a shit faggot

We are all severely depressed, because life is severely depressing. There is nothing wrong with your brain, you're just too weak to handle the horror of human existence

>>9644739
It is no wonder you're unable to understand depression when you're not even able to understand that not everyone shares your miserable existence.

>>9644739
Stop trying to be the edgy but edgy guy.
It`s not our fault your parents tried to abort you when you were 8 years old

>>9644704
2017, 2017, 2017 and 2017, according to Retraction Watch.

>>9644739
>We are all severely depressed, because life is severely depressing. There is nothing wrong with your brain, you're just too weak to handle the horror of human existence
When I had depression there was nothing bad going on in my life. It made me upset at every aspect of my life, but I knew everything was actually fine. I knew it was irrational. That's what depression can be like.

>>9642452
The only doctors in the world that have a predisposition to prescribe medicine are American doctors. Additionally, every country that doesn't rely on DSM's avoid medication as a treatment option for depression as much as possible. Even then, DSM-V lists the primary treatment for depression as therapy, not medication. There's no "chemical imbalance" with depression - depression is as much a natural state as non-depression is. Major Depression, depressive mood, dysthymia - they are all results of natural processes occurring as reactions to internal and external stimuli. Conflating a state you find disagreeable with something abnormal is makes about as much sense as thinking going bald is somehow totally abnormal according to human biology. Suggesting that depression is a disease is idiotic; it's a mental state, and it is recognized as such. Doctors don't even consider something like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder as diseases. These attitudes need to die, not the attitude that medication is overrated and life-style changes are what you should seek.

Going outside might be part of your therapy. A temporary prescription to an SSRI or similar anti-depressant might be as well, but only to give you time to learn the necessary skills through therapy that allow you to "normalize" so that you no longer have a disorder (a disorder being a condition that unreasonably affects your life in a negative way.) The intent is not to live on anti-depressants. Changes in life-style behavior are the solution to depression, and that is research-driven and the best science that is available on the subject. End of.

t. man diagnosed with major depression and dysthymic disorder, along with a host of other problems, who took his SSRI's on a doctor's recommendation and ended them once I learned what I needed to in therapy, who is living a meaningful life while depressed without pills

>>9644704
>only bioscientists can fake results
>no other fields have scientific misconduct

Neck yourself, you fucking undergrad. /sci/ has truly flayed your mind.

>>9644769
>There's no "chemical imbalance" with depression - depression is as much a natural state as non-depression is. Major Depression, depressive mood, dysthymia - they are all results of natural processes occurring as reactions to internal and external stimuli. Conflating a state you find disagreeable with something abnormal is makes about as much sense as thinking going bald is somehow totally abnormal according to human biology. Suggesting that depression is a disease is idiotic; it's a mental state, and it is recognized as such.
Holy shit you're retarded. Do you not consider that maybe you can have both? Sometimes a "depressed" person (depressed in quotes because THEY DONT ACTUALLY HAVE DEPRESSION) can be cured with therapy.

Depression is actually the chemical imbalance. No imbalance, no depression.

So I agree it's probably over-diagnosed in the US. That doesn't mean it doesn't fucking exist, retard.

>>9644783
>Depression is actually the chemical imbalance
But that has been disproven many times you fucking brainlet

>>9644783
Absolutely nothing you said remotely agrees with anything I have heard from psychiatrists or clinical psychologist, or have learned through reading research on the subject, in literally years of therapy. No one, except people who have primarily educated themselves through social media, has ever echoed the sentiment that depression is a chemical imbalance.
I don't know how to tell you this other than being blunt, so here it is: you're simply wrong. Depression is a natural emotional state that happens as the result of certain environmental and physiological conditions. It is not a horrible disease that much be cured, and characterizing it as an imbalance is both inaccurate and disingenuous.

>>9644783
why do you WRITE PARTS OF YOUR sentences in all caps?

>>9644772
this is the mental decay you suffer from pol, not sci

>>9644689
I believe that misconceptions about what is important in life are the reason people resort to antidepressants. I am very very certain that all these stories of "happy and successful" people being depressed or killing themselves did not have a chemical imbalance in their brains but lead lives that were highly unfulfilling, despite the image of them an outsider might have.

You don't get taught the importance of most of the things you mentioned, only getting education, a job and a family. Not that these aren't important for your well-being, they definitely are, but they are not everything.

To that list I would also add being at peace with yourself and not having any thoughts at the back of your mind that you are too scared to confront. Avoiding matters that bother you piles up over time and seriously depresses you in a way that you aren't consciously aware of until you do something about them. Not to sound like a hippie but when I took a small dose of LSD once out of curiosity I for the first time understood just how much some small things bother me. I felt how my room being cluttered and dirty negatively affected my mood and in a way dragged me down into a state of complacency about both the state of my surroundings and my own life.

Hopefully with more research into the lack of long term efficacy of antidepressants and increased awareness of their downsides, steps can finally be taken to educate society about mental health and how to improve it in a meaningful way that is not resorting to happy pills. Maybe at some point in the future, constructive therapy will be the first response to depressive symptoms and not prescribing pills to milk money out of patients.

>>9644790
>or have learned through reading research on the subject, in literally years of therapy.
Literally 1 second on Google

>>9644795
>Not to sound like a hippie but when I took a small dose of LSD once out of curiosity I for the first time understood just how much some small things bother me.
So babies first drug experience now means he is an expert on depression?
Does me experiencing ego death when doing large doses make an expert on consciousness?

>>9644797
"Babies first drug experience" has indeed made me aware of aspects of the human psyche that I am quite certain some people do not understand, especially those that would go to a psychiatrist to get prescribed antidepressants. And yes, after experiencing ego death you know more about human consciousness than someone who has not. Quite obviously these experiences do not make either of us experts on the respective matters but do not dismiss them either. No need to be so jaded and see everything as black and white.

>>9644796
>trusting google search algorithm over literal medical doctors
Okay, I'll try to make this easier for you to understand.

In 7 years of therapy.
No medical professional (psychiatrists or clinical psychologists).
Has ever said anything close to the effect.
That depression is chemical imbalance.
Depression is not an illness or an infection.
It is a disorder.
What makes it a disorder.
Is that the patients judges their emotional state.
To interfere with their ability to live a meaningful life.
Do not misappropriate the definition of disease.
To mean something like infection, illness, or injury.
They affect human biology in different ways.
Depression is none of those things; it is an emotional disorder.
It is not meant to be cured with invasive medical procedures or medicinal routine.
It cannot be cured with invasive medical procedures or medicinal routines.
It is a natural emotional state.
The only way to treat depression is through therapy.
Use of SSRIs/anti-depressants is to mitigate the effects of symptoms of the disorder, not to treat the disorder.
Again, no doctor; no medical professional.
Has ever suggested.
That depressions results from an uncontrollable chemical imbalance.
That cannot be righted.
Through a change of attitude, perspective, or life-style.
AKA
Therapy.

If necessary, I can space all of those sentences apart for you.

>>9644811
you'd think LSD would give you a little empathy, but nope, you simply ended up finding more evidence for the conclusion you had already arrived at.

>>9644815
>distorting your brain with psychedelics improves your ability to undestand the human condition
>my consciousness has been, like, heightened man, because i thought my steering wheel was 5 miles wide and i yelled at everyone all night because they looked like they were 20 feet away
>i really figured it all out when someone handed me a gum wrapper to look at and i just REALIZED man
If I could invent time travel, I would kill the dumb motherfucker that started this urban legend.

>>9644820
Are you high right now? Does that shit you just wrote make sense to you if you reread it?

>>9644825
Considering I read above an 8th grade level and I'm not ESL, yea - all of it makes sense when I reread it. Tell me where you're having trouble, and maybe I can help you figure it out.

>>9644796
This is just conflating the colloquial and the medical definition of depression.

>>9642538
Its called life. Most people get stronger by overcoming it.

I had depression for two years and I didnt take any med.

>>9644828
Okay, the part where I'm having a hard time following is when you jump to conclusions about my drug use and go off on a rant on how LSD is perceived among teenagers. Can you clear up that part for me?

>>9644833
being depressed != having a depression

If depression isn't real, in so much that it is all just feelings that everyone normally has, then answer me two questions:

1. Why is there so many genetic links found for depression?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21948214
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16268991

2. Why are there forms of depression that can be cured using an anti-inflammatory?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5050394/

>>9644846
because it conflicts with my world-view

>>9644838
Yea sure.

Here >>9644815 you said
>you'd think LSD would give you a little empathy
implying that altering your brain's natural chemistry and function with foreign substances to the point of temporary dementia or hallucination can teach you something about either the human condition or the human emotional spectrum.

My "rant" was highlighting that this idea of a psychedelic being able to give you some kind of meaningful experience (such as "learning empathy") is the result of high school-level stupidity based on something that addled drug-addicts perpetuated back in the 70's.

>>9644849
do you think you could have gotten your point across without your corny stoner strawman?

>>9644846
>1. Why is there so many genetic links found for depression?
Why do you think a natural emotional state that's entirely possible for any given human to experience might have something to do with genetics, anon? It's almost like our genetics determine things like natural responses to internal and external stimuli.

>2. Why are there forms of depression that can be cured using an anti-inflammatory?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5050394/
Extreme nightmares can be reduced in severity with prazosin, which is a hypertension medication. Are nightmares a disease now?

>>9644848
Fucking killer, m8.

>>9644815
I am not quite sure what you want me to empathetic about, your response to my only post in this thread was simply stating that my experiences do not matter and I understand nothing about depression. Maybe you are confusing me for another poster?

For what it's worth, I was diagnosed with depression myself a few years back. I initially went to a physician as I was struggling with feeling low energy all the time, blood tests showed no physical problems so he sent me a psychiatrist. There I was prescribed an antidepressant which did nothing but make me feel like a zombie for the month or two that I was taking it, quite the jarring experience.
My problem really had been having no goals, no meaning in my life and nothing to get up for in the morning. Of course the psychiatrist did not ask me about any of those things. He asked me if I had trouble getting up in the morning as if it was a physical condition, not if I actually had something to get up for.

Now I don't know what your actual standpoint on this matter is as all you did was invalidate something that I said, and yes this experience also does not make me an expert on depression. But it did give me an insight into what causes depression and what psychiatrists do to treat it, and also what they should be doing instead. Certainly there are people with more complicated problems causing them depression, but I am also certain that treating the issue with therapy instead of (or at least combined with) treating the symptoms with antidepressants would help them too.

>>9644856
Yes, but I was butthurt because I don't like drug or drugee sub-culture. I made a ridiculous, sensational demonstration out of my response because fuck you I can be childish if I want.

I concede your point. I should have been more rational about it.

>>9643902
nice blog post faggot

>>9644863
I'm not calling you out because I think it makes me "win" the argument, it's just that I'm so fucking tired of the low-brow shit that gets slung around on sci when discussing mental health.

It's a pretty big deal to me because I have ADHD, and I face the same shit in threads about ADHD which makes me sad because meds have had such a monumental impact on my happiness with life, so I have little patience when people claim it's a fraud etc. I know this is also an off-topic rant, but I want you to understand where I'm coming from here.

>>9642538
I think diet and exercise should be tried before using anti depressants

>>9644859
>Why do you think a natural emotional state that's entirely possible for any given human to experience might have something to do with genetics, anon? It's almost like our genetics determine things like natural responses to internal and external stimuli.
And if our responses are improperly tuned then we can more easily become sad and despondent without possibility to recover through normal emotional means, if only there was a word for such a condition.

>Extreme nightmares can be reduced in severity with prazosin, which is a hypertension medication. Are nightmares a disease now?
I mean considering they were proscribed to people suffering from PTSD, yeah I am pretty sure nightmares are a symptom of a disease. The importance of the anti-inflammatory study is the fact that they are able to induce depression by application of inflammatory agents such as INF-alpha. If this isn't a physical manifestation of a disease mechanism then I would really like to know what it is.

>>9644871
I concede because I entirely agree with that sentiment. I knew what you were getting at with the low-brow, low-effort "counter arguments", and I feel the same way - there's far too much sensationalism in general in how people "discuss" things today, whether it's on sci, 4chan, or IRL.

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say about LSD and empathy. Can you explain?

>>9644880
Not that guy but
https://www.nature.com/articles/npp201682

Many hallucinogenic drugs are currently being investigated for therapeutic potential. Mushrooms for depression, the FDA labeled MDMA a breakthrough therapy for PTSD, etc. etc. They are all just underutilized resources to be honest.

>>9644815
I think you're projecting, cunt

>>9644874
>our responses are improperly tuned
Based upon a value judgement made by the patient. For instance, I was diagnosed with major depression and dysthymic disorder - yet I no longer feel as if they interfere with my life. As such, my doctor has recommended to my insurance that I no longer need extended coverage for the treatment, as I no longer "suffer" from the disorders.

>If this isn't a physical manifestation of a disease mechanism then I would really like to know what it is.
We already know that numerous physical functions can induce various levels of psychoactivity, including full-blown psychosis (such as tumors on glands making tower shooters). We also know that psychosis can be the result of natural responses to environmental stimuli.

I think we also need to take a step back here for a moment, because we both seem to be failing to communicate entirely:
1) I never argued that depression wasn't a disorder (and therefore a disease). I am fighting the notion that is akin to something an injury, illness, or infection, or is a disease in the class of something like cancer.
2) While I am arguing that depression is a natural emotional state that occurs as the result of normal responses to stimuli, so is type 2 diabetes, so I'm not saying it doesn't exist - only that it is an emotional disorder.
3) Research supports that emotional disorders can have physical symptoms, and I am not trying to argue that.
4) You seem to be on the hook that depression is seemingly induced by a fundamental change in physical structure because of the results of a singular study, when the majority of the remaining body of research suggests that is not the case. What, specifically, if you're argument on what depression is or isn't, since I'm not quite understanding your point.

>>9644880
I did try LSD, it "opened my mind" to how much perception can be distorted by brain chemistry, how different the thought process was. For instance, in the case of depression it made me realize how you're not really as in control of your mental state as you'd like to think.

It's not so easy to see when it comes to depression. After all, getting out into the woods will help, and for some getting forced to exercise might be the cure in on itself. However consider anorexia, here it's even more blindingly obvious to someone without anorexia that the patient should eat some goddamn food, but the message just doesn't get through, and the absurdity is much more visible here than with depression.

>>9644891
at least I got 4 (you)'s

>>9644898
Also, there is a difference between sympathy and empathy. I don't want to accuse people of not caring, only of not understanding

>>9644898
I see. I'm not trying to be combative when I say this - I'm simply sharing my experience.

I came to the same conclusions through studying neurology, psychology, and what I learned from therapy. I, however, did not come to the conclusion that I am not in control of my mental state to a significant degree. I recognize that there are biological, unconscious functions of human anatomy that I cannot control, however I also recognize that conscious effort to change perspective or attitude can greatly alter emotional states, automatic reaction to external and internal stimuli, and that I am ultimately in control of how I respond to my emotions. I recognize that I will feel certain things regardless of what judgement I make on those feelings, but I have the ability to induce secondary emotional responses that alleviate the vast majority of agitation, instability, or negative perception caused by automatic responses.

I personally believe we are much more in control of our own minds that we would think, which is an attitude that has been reflected both in formalized, modern medicine as well as philosophical or ideological analysis of the human condition dating back to ancient history.

Alright, check it out:

I was depressed for most of my life. Clinically diagnosed and treated. Meds, therapy, and all that good stuff. Meds only stop the extremes from happening. This means you might not have SEVERE depression, but you are still depressed. All it treats is the symptom and not the cause.

I'm not depressed anymore. How did I fix that? First I accepted the fact that my depression is my fault. Once I accepted that, I took action to correct it. What was the problem? A really terrible, immature, pessimistic attitude. I was concerned with all of the meaningless, surface-level stuff in life: "I don't have a girlfriend" or "I don't have enough money" or just simply having a terrible sense of self worth. Did I fix the problem overnight? Fuck no. It took about 3 or 4 years of constant self reflection, and pushing myself to become mentally stronger. I learned how to deal with stress. I learned how to worry about only the things that I can control (which is very little, that's just life). I found what truly matters in life the most. Wanna know the secret? (YOU). You are the only thing in YOUR life that truly matters. So take care of yourself. Take PRIDE in yourself. Find what makes you HAPPY. Accept the fact that no one, and no thing can make you happy (people/possessions). If you are dependent on happiness from other things or people, you are doomed to be depressed FOREVER. Take responsibility for yourself, don't just roll over and die because some guy with an MD told you that your brain juices are abnormal.

>Wow that's real cliche, dude
Yep, it is, but it works. I am the happiest I've ever been in my life. I saw my therapist a month ago to give her an update on my life. She was shocked to tears over how much I had changed.

>tldr
Start taking pride and ownership of yourself, and your life. Eat healthy, work out, learn something new, find out WHO you are, and what makes you happy. Make something of yourself.

>>9644914
I have ADHD, so for me the difference between being the person I want to be and a useless slob is ritalin. The worst part is I spent over 20 years thinking I was just a useless shit, perpetually unable to do the things necessary to achieve my goals. My LSD trips was part of what made me realize there was more to my inability to get shit down, and after getting meds it really did turn everything around..

>>9644923
>Start taking pride and ownership of yourself, and your life. Eat healthy, work out, learn something new, find out WHO you are, and what makes you happy. Make something of yourself.
What if you do those things and still feel the effects of depression?

Sometimes you can change your lifestyle to improve your condition. Sometimes you can't.

>>9644927
Also, I'd like to add that the following:
>Start taking pride and ownership of yourself, and your life.
Is exactly what I would call taking the steps necessary to get medication, therapy etc. I'm sure as hell not gonna let aversion to meds stand in the way of living life.

>>9644896
Yes based on patient responses but there are more metrics then that, for example suicide. Some people have transient depressive episodes that last months or years, some get sad and misdiagnose themselves, and some get screwed and are depressed their whole life. Genetic predisposition implies physical mechanisms that control the severity or recovery ability from depression.

1. This point is muddled, you are saying you think depression is a disease, but it's not a bad disease? Why would you think that? Cause personally I would rather have broken my arm or had appendicitis then get stuck with this shit.
2. Autism is an emotional disorder, depression is too. There is no real distinction or importance to arguing it is not an emotional disorder in the context of our discussion.
3. Okay
4. What research suggests that is not the case? Psychological studies based on your attachment to your mother and father? There are many forms of depression and many mechanisms that control prevalence and severity in the same way they recently picked apart diabetes into like 5 different sub groups. Not all forms of depression will be that, because many people will diagnose themselves or are just having a shitty month and think it's not because they've only been eating crap and being asocial.

My argument: Depression exists, it can be exceptionally severe and in many cases causes significant increase in morbidity and reduction in productivity. Susceptibility to depression is genetically linked, and while not entirely genetic as environmental factors are very important, implying an underlying biochemical mechanism. Inflammation being able to induce, and the treatment of which removes, depression further supports this idea on a systematic level throughout the brain structure. Finally there are many forms of depression with a variety of underlying causes and interactions with a breadth of severity and treatment outcomes.

Did that help? Sorry if I was unclear

>>9642452
If the main cause was a chemical imbalance inside the brain, the mean of diagnostic would be mesuring brain activity with an electroencephalogram not a discussion with some cunt who gets a commission every times he prescribs you some pills... Even for the cases when it is in fact chemical imbalance, antidepressants don't tackle it, but just hide the symptom. It's like if you had a broken leg and the doctors decided to put you lifelong on painkillers instead of reducing the fracture and making you a cast.

>>9644927
Can't argue against or for that. I've never had ADHD, nor have I researched it extensively. I am glad that you found a solution for what is something you had difficulty controlling before, and if it helps, you have actually helped me realized something about how our brains work.

I recognize that some disorders are neurological, some are psychological, and some are personality. They each require different approaches for resolution.

>>9644936
I have been called a phenomenal success in therapy, and I still feel depressed all the time. I have changed my life-style, attitude, and perspective, and still deal with cycles of depression and depressed mood.
When I feel depressed, I simply reuse my therapeutic tools and methods (which include exercise, spending time with friends even when I feel like it's killing me, and being more active outdoors), and the symptoms of my depression are generally alleviated. What remains I handle with results-focused methodologies I've taken from cognitive behavioral therapy.

I don't think depression is something that can be cured, anon. I think, for many people, it is simply a natural emotional state. Learning to adjust to it so it no longer interferes with your life is all you can do, in many cases. Regardless, medication is not a "cure" for depression. SSRIs/anti-depressants are a way to alleviate symptoms long enough for the actual treatment - therapy - to be meaningful. I would never tell someone to not take medication if a doctor recommends it, but I would warn against believing you need medication unless a doctor strongly suggests such.

>>9644946
Getting a cast for your broken leg simply hides the problem.

>>9644946
>It's like if you had a broken leg and the doctors decided to put you lifelong on painkillers instead of reducing the fracture and making you a cast.
If fixing the fracture doesn't make the pain go away, you may need to also need lifelong painkillers. You can have more nuance to things, use your brain.

Anti-depressants are just another tool in the toolbox. They're very useful. Maybe over-perscribed, but still valid.

>SSRIs/anti-depressants are a way to alleviate symptoms long enough for the actual treatment - therapy - to be meaningful. I would never tell someone to not take medication if a doctor recommends it, but I would warn against believing you need medication unless a doctor strongly suggests such.
Exactly. SSRIs are always temporary and almost always used in conjunction with therapy.

>>9644949
I appreciate that. Sucks that there's no magic pill for you like there is for me. For what it's worth, getting my life back on track included going from a drop-out candidate to getting a PhD position researching neurons. I'm not gonna cure depression, but I really hope my work will be one part of the puzzle.

>>9644689
\thread

>>9644969
frogposting is a mental illness

>>9644945
Genetic predisposition absolutely implies physical mechanisms, but remember that emotional states and even value judgments rely on physical mechanisms.

1. I don't think that depression is a "not bad disease". I am diagnosed with major depression and dysthymic disorder - I know how much it sucks. I am only asserting that psychological diseases (read: psychological disorders) are in a class their own, and cannot be thought about in the same manner as something like type 2 diabetes, cancer, or multiple sclerosis. You cannot "think yourself" into having cancer; you can absolutely "think yourself" into depression. That doesn't mean depression isn't real, simply that is functions very differently from non-psychological diseases.
2. Autism is a neurological disorder that features emotional disorders as a symptom. Neurological and psychological disorders cross boundaries frequently or present themselves in very similar ways, but they are considered different things within the scientific and medical community.
3. Okay.
4. The research that shows depression can be fully alleviated by perspective change, suggesting it is not purely induced by a physical change in the way other types of diseases are. I would find a study, but it's the majority of the rest of the body of research on the matter. Look into how cognitive behavioral therapy is widely considered the best-practice methodology for treatment.
For instance, type 2 diabetes is caused by organ malfunction, and that organ malfunction is speculated to come from everything from lack of exercise, poor diet, age, obesity, gender, and race.
There is evidence to show that neurological disorders (arguably, an organ malfunction) can produce depression. However, such events are generally recognized as uncommon causes for depression.

Continued below

>>9644945
>>9644981
I recognize that depression is ultimately the result of physiological change, but I would ask people to consider what induces the physiological change to begin with. My contentions on the subject are this

1) depression is the result of physical malfunction in all cases
2) depression is not primarily induced by psychological states
3) depression cannot be the result of natural responses to internal and external stimuli
4) depression is a disease that can only be cured with external application of a reconstructive process such as medicine

Those are the things I disagree with. Depression is largely an emotional state, which may be the result of a physical mechanism, but I would argue that the impetus for the physical change which leads to depression is frequently a psychological value judgement. In the case that depression is proven to be largely a psychological and not physical disorder, I don't think that reduces the seriousness of the disease at all, and I still think the public perception of depression needs to be adjusted with further education.

>>9642452
I would honestly rather be addicted to my medication and be able to go about my daily life than be completely unable to function normally as I was before (barely able to get out of bed, slept 12+ hours a day, had such awful anxiety about going out and talking to others I kept myself locked up in the house). Now I'm doing well in my classes and have a job that requires a lot of interaction with people that I actually like although I still get anxious sometimes. That's not to say all those problems magically fixed themselves, but I'm definitely doing better than I was, so that's good for me.

>>9644994
Okie I see what happened, me and you both agree although I quibble over the definition of emotional disorder.
1.I didn't say it was a physical malfunction in all cases, I mentioned how sometimes it's a result of " just having a shitty month and think it's not because they've only been eating crap and being asocial. "
2. I think this one is just a case of over generalization. Our discussion doesn't have the words we need but there is 100% psychological states that can trigger depression. Other times though a giant ban hammer will come from on high and ruin your life without psychological impetus, depends on the type of depression.
3. Already kinda said this in the first point but also "while not entirely genetic as environmental factors are very important". Although the impact of the environmental factors will differ based on the type of depression.
4. Again " just having a shitty month and think it's not because they've only been eating crap and being asocial. "

I really enjoyed talking with you and I'm glad we ended up kind of on the same page. I will try to be more accepting of emotional based therapies, but try to remember that not all cases can be cured with that. The idea being that they can be and if you aren't able to it's a personal failing can exacerbate the issue. I fall heavily into the first group, although I'm gonna try another round of therapy, I have done years of therapy, exercised constantly, and meditated every day for months. I have more tools for handling emotions then I can count but the first time I felt normal was when I took an anti-depressant. My case is probably not nearly as common as the psychologically based one, but the perception that "it's all in my head" screwed me up for years as I tried to fight taking drugs and do the regular laundry list of activities given to depressed patients, I screwed myself over my first two years of college that way and my GPA tanked. Anyways, thanks again for the talk I wish you the best

>>9645028
Same to you, anon.
Just for those who might be reading, or if you come back:

I had the exact opposite experience. Realizing it was all "just in my head" (in my case, I suppose) was the exact moment that I went from suicidal to normalized in about 3 weeks. I was off anti-depressants (that largely had not really helped me beyond preventing me from being aggressive and angry) within a couple months.

Obviously, depression is an odd duck. What I'm taking away from this, and I think what the research would also suggest, is that depression is more akin to symptom than disease itself, and can be the result of numerous things. I won't be categorizing it so neatly into pure psychological disorder anymore.

>>9645047
>Realizing it was all "just in my head" (in my case, I suppose) was the exact moment that I went from suicidal to normalized in about 3 weeks. I was off anti-depressants (that largely had not really helped me beyond preventing me from being aggressive and angry) within a couple months.

usually this realization hits when the episode starts to ebb. you are always conscious of the fact that it's "in your head", but this becomes most apparent when your symptoms start to disappear.

so i think you realize this because the severity of your depression decreases, not conversely

>>9645079

otoh,
>>9645028
this anon's symptoms did not remit until he was medicated.

since your symptoms resolved spontaneously without any obvious external factor, you concluded that it's "all in your head".

it's always "all in your head". personally i have never had much luck with anti-depressants, but you shouldn't project your experience with the disease onto someone else.

>>9645098
continued from
>>9645079

>>9644936
Exactly what >>9644949 said.

I still have very minor episodes that show up from time to time when I'm overwhelmed by school work and other things. I get that sense of hopelessness and feel like giving up, but don't give in! That's the same feeling I have from time to time of wanting to smoke a cigarette. I quit 2 1/2 years ago, but I still have a very small craving from time to time. In fact I had a dream last night that I was smoking. It never goes away, but I can easily overcome it. The same with depression. You just have to keep working at it, it's NOT hopeless!

>>9642538
>but only antidepressants can fix it.
dumb fucking retard
i was diagnosed with clinical depression and even left a phd program at a top university because of it
i didn't take any faggy pills; i restructured my life and eventually got the fuck over it

pills might be necessary for some people in certain situations, but they are not the only way to treat mental illness, especially not depression

you should have died of alcohol poisoning while you had the chance, for all of our sake

>>9645455
>pills might be necessary for some people in certain situations
That's the scenario I was referring to. Calm your shit. Only antidepressants will get the job done.

>>9645459
>Only antidepressants will get the job done.
again you expose yourself as an incredible fucking retard who should have exited the gene pool when he had the chance
fucking kill yourself

>>9645459
Bro. Your own words:
>Pills might be necessary
Thus
>Only pills will get the job done in those situations

We are saying the same thing.

>>9645476
>in those situations
how convenient that you've finally added in that crucial detail
every night before i go to sleep i pray for brianlet hollocaust

>>9644721
>>9644724
>>9644725
>>9644731
Hahaha someone really got triggered. Nice meme "you just don't understand it's not that easy". Fucking loser either take control of your life or shut the fuck up and stop complaining.

>>9644756
Wew really got him with that one!
>ur edgy
fuckin got em

>>9644839
Most retarded thing I've seen all day. I hope for your sake this is bait.

>>9645459
Yeah idk wtf is triggering these guys about pills so much, but it seems pretty out of the blue to me. Claiming antidepressants are the only that will get the job done is just wrong though.

>>9644704
You should know that Nature, Science etc. are the porn magazines of science. Only the most attention-whoring titles get published, so they get cited. This encourages manipulation of data.

>>9642452
modern society is designed to make humans exist in a constant high so they will be complacent, thus, any interruption sends people into an """unnatural""" state of """depression""" which must be rectified by large doses of mind-altering drugs. keep taking your pills brainlets

>>9644783
>Depression is actually the chemical imbalance. No imbalance, no depression.

Sometimes I feel like "chemical imbalance" is like religion. It's elusive, mysterious, and when you ask for proof the defenders get highly offended.

>>9642503
>/pol/tard trying to wrestle with his crippling depression has a breakdown in a reddit thread
Kek, best timeline.

I think (not a doctor or medical opinion) I may have some mood disorder. Like rapid cycling type 2 bipolar or something. On occasion I'll get really depressed. Not just sadness pure emotional pain and I literally can't feel anything else. During the day it'll get worse and worse and then it reaches a point where I don't want to move. I loose the will and motivation to literally lift a finger or move from where I am. In this state if I try forcing myself to move my movement is very jerky like I have Parkinson syndrome or some movement disorder. At it worst it lasts 20-40 minutes, then slowly I start getting better and better as the day progresses.

In-between the poor mood, lack of motivation, and motor problems these episodes brings I concluded a lack of dopamine was one possible problem. I experimented with a low dose of l-dopa (velvet bean) which is a precursor to dopamine that crosses the blood/brain barrier. As soon as I noticed the lack of energy/motivation and the desire to sit motionless which happens regularly I took it. The effects were a very rapid improvement in mood, energy, motivation, and surprisingly sex drive. I've since started taking l-dopa regularly. There is the possibility of tolerance/sensitization so I've restricted myself to using it only 1 or 2 days per week.

While not all depression is a chemical imbalance, you can't tell me that all depression is not a chemical imbalance.

>>9642452
Isn't saying you're depressed because of a chemical imbalance the same as saying your fat because of genetics? Assuming the symptom is the cause?

I was depressed for months when an ex dumped me, nothing I enjoyed beforehand made me happy so I took a vacation and tried new activities I'd never done before and it got me feeling right again. Just my personal experience though.

>>9645970
Feeling depressed =/= actual depression.

>>9646140
>le no true scotsman fallacy
Holy fucking shit you muh depressionfags are unbearable, imagine being so pathetic you make depression a part of your identity
>>>/tumblr/