/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9629069
State your axioms. Are you working in ZFC?

Fluctuates between >=1.5 and 1. /b/ tier b8 is still /b/ tier even if it's le science. Reported;).

>>9629081
>Fluctuates
laughing girls.webm

>>9629081

Incorrect. Can be greater than 1.5 if flies are accelerating upwards.

>>9629069

On average 1.5 kg though. Exactly that if flies are staying in place.

>>9629086
So the greater or equal means?

>>9629069
Open container, between 1 and 1.5, but closer to 1.
Closed container 1.5

For brainlets, before you open your mouth

Replace the jar of air with a jar of water, and flies with fish, then ask yourself again what it will weigh. If your answer differs then you probably got it wrong the first time.

>>9629069
The big question is
>if you put a jar of flies on a treadmill, will it take off?

>>9629113
Or maybe water has a non despreciable buyoncy force?

>>9629113
>have a big jar on a scale
>jar weighs 1kg
>drop a 20kg anvil in the jar
>weigh the jar before anvil hits bottom
What is the weight?

>>9629131
Are the flies falling?

Can flies generate 0.5kg downforce thrust?

>>9629196
They need to to fly, duh.

>>9629082
me-raping-those-laughing-girls.webm

>>9629145
No flies in that scenario. They got scared by the anvil and flew away because the jar lid was off.

>>9629069
>.5kg flies
>flies way about 20 mg
25,000 flies
What is the volume of the jar?

>>9629113
>air is the same as water
>gas in the same as liquid
>your mouth is the same as your asshole

How is the scale measuring the weight of the flies exactly?

1kg

>>9629230
>air is special because it ignores the laws of physics
>gas is special because physics mean nothing to gas
>your mouth and asshole are distinct topologically
I don't have a wojack to represent how dense you are so I made pic related, no light may escape this wojack.

>>9629308
>h2o is the same as 02
>physics for liquid is the same as gas
>fucking retard

enjoy taking middle school natural science for the 3rd time retard.

pic related faggot, it's you

>>9629082
>>9629207
*watches*.mkv

>>9629230
they're both incompressible fluids for the purposes of this example, brainlet

>>9629323
>fluid mechanics changes based on the density of the fluid
>fluid mechanics changes based on the state of matter of the fluid

>>9629196
yes, they must, otherwise they would not be in flight
in fact, if they are accelerating upwards, they will generate more than that much "downforce thrust"

>>9629344
>>9629348
once again retards. say this slowly
>gas
>is
>the
>same
>as
>a
>liquid

>>9629211
>way

>>9629352
>fluid mechanics changes based on the state of matter of the fluid

>>9629352
No one claimed gases and liquids are the exact same thing in every respect, you massively retarded faggot.

Yeah, hey, I want to travel south this year
I won't, won't prevent safe passage here

>>9629348
>fluid mechanics changes based on the state of matter of the fluid

>>9629370
now THAT'S a pink wojack
saved

>>9629352

Mate it's all just molecules. unless your next post describes a mechanical description for why the water analogy falls apart vs air, and not just MUh STATE then please direct your next wojak at yourself

>>9629069
We have this thread everyday, and im bout to end this shit. Listen closely... scales measure normal force. This means the jar's weight is the resultant reading on the scale. The flies do NOT change the normal force of the system, umless they are pushing up against the top of it. This means the answer to this problem, is 1kg.

>>9629436
>The flies do NOT change the normal force of the system.
That's where you're wrong. The force keeping the flies aloft is transmitted through the air to the jar. If what you said were true then there would be no wind underneath a helicopter.

>>9629069
That should be "flies weigh 0.5kg".

>>9629094
So your saying it can't be between 1 and 1.5?

>>9629449
This makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever. Take a physics class before saying this shit.

>>9629486
>This makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever. Take a physics class before saying this shit.
Take a physics class before replying to me.

>>9629079
This, OP. Are you assuming the axiom of choice? Are you working in an alternative set theory, like New Foundations? You're gonna have to give us more information.

>>9629486
Put a scale under a helicopter, are you saying it will read 0?

>>9629497
Scales don't measure pressure anon. You mean a barometer.

>>9629501
No, I mean a scale. Are you saying that the scale will read 0 or not?

>>9629113
>>9629308
>>9629348
>>9629353
>>9629358
>>9629370
>gas can be compressed
>liquid can not
>flies cause changes in gas pressure
>"just pretend the gas is water bro, should answer your problem then"

like i said morons, enjoy elementary school and bill nye

Doesn't a scale basically measure potential energy?
So flies flying around in the container would have converted potential energy to kinetic energy, the weight would have to be below that of the jar and flies combined.

>>9629509
Absolute retard

>>9629506
Are you saying the answer is not 1.5?

>>9629505
The scale will probably read something but a barometer is a better measure of what you want because what keeps a helicopter up is not the wind but the pressure differential below the helicopter. The only reason there is wind is because there are no walls below the helicopter to keep the air from moving to the side.

>>9629506
So the flies compress the gas, what keeps the gas from going in the direction that isn't the flies? If the fly is sitting on top of a compressed gas then what keeps the sides and bottom of the gas contained?

>>9629509
I guess we assume that the flies are hovering not falling.

>>9629370
You Cannot Grasp the True Form of Wojack

>>9629516
If you're standing on a scale in freefall, what does the scale register?

>>9629525
The pressure that wind resistance puts on the bottom of the scale?

>>9629069
OP IS IT TARED OR NOT I NEED MORE INFORMATION YOU UNCALIBRATED FAGGOT

>>9629533
Exactly, not your potential energy, just some of your kinetic energy.

>>9629540
How does a scale measure potential energy? The scale reads 1.5 on average

>>9629540
Last time I checked scales measure neither potential nor kinetic energy, they measure force.

>>9629540
You are a retard because the potential energy the flies are converting into kinetic energy is chemical potential. I think you were trying to talk about gravitational potential energy, but the flies aren't using any of it because they're hovering

>>9629506
>>liquid can not

>>9629520
>The scale will probably read something
and what it is reading is the normal force of the helicopter on the ground
if the scale is large enough in area to capture all the wind the helicopter is pushing down, the scale will read the weight of the helicopter in lbs.
don't ever reply to me again.

>>9629518
not if the flies are accelerating in the vertical direction(s)

>>9629540
scales measure Newtons, not Joules, faggot
the amount of whatever faggot energy you're talking about that acts as a force no the scale is what the scale is measuring

>>9629537
wholesome post

>>9629230
all 3 are basically true

>>9629586
alright faggot i'll wait right here compressing oxygen and c02 in my mouth all fucking day while you pour gallons and gallons of water in your mouth and you won't even be able to compress 1 mml. Faggot

>>9629358
>nani the fuck
you're a gay faggot in /djt/ and you're a gay faggot here
stop, it's just fucking autistic

>>9629209
Is the anvil flying?

>>9629652
what the fuck is a /djt/ faggot
死ねって

>>9629593
All I'm saying is that scales don't hold wind very well and don't measure pressure very well because the pressure can get inside the scale.

>>9629736
you can build an air-tight scale

>>9629742
>you can build an air-tight scale
Yes and after you built that air-tight scale you would call it a barometer because it measures relative pressure inside and outside.

>>9629762
nah, i'd call it a scale because it measures force not pressure faggot

>>9629775
Call me for a consult when your scale says you weigh less when it is raining and more when it is sunny and dry.

>>9629653
It is dropping. We are most curious what the weight is when it is in the jar but hasn't hit the scale.

>>9629786
you're right i was being retarded
it doesn't change the fact that, in a thought experiment, the scale would measure what i said it would when you simplify things

>>9629786
as a counter to this, i could just build an air-tight scale with a valve that equalizes the pressure and just equalize the pressure before every time i use it

>>9629079
>>9629490

>>9629641

this. everyone in this thread is an educated moron.

>>9629802
>as a counter to this, i could just build an air-tight scale with a valve that equalizes the pressure and just equalize the pressure before every time i use it

>>9629815
because you're being pedantic about your barometer and using it to avoid the question, faggot

>>9629856
OK lets get back on track. What question was I avoiding exactly?

>>9629858
what does the scale in the OP read

>>9629864
1.5 kg approximately

>>9629869
It's only 1.5 on average

>>9629858
Why did you say >>9629449 makes no sense? We're you wrong about that?

>>9629871
>It's only 1.5 on average
Which one of us is the pedant again?

>>9629878
I didn't.

>>9629879
that wasn't me, faggot
thanks for answering the question correctly

>>9629881
Yes I did, don't try to speak for me.

This is my guess.

>>9629950
The answer is 1.5kg on average

>>9629069
Assuming an airtight jar:
= 1 kg if there were no flies.
= 1.5 kg if the flies are clinging to the jar.
= 1.5 kg if the flies are hovering in place in the jar.
= >1.5 kg if the flies are accelerating upwards in the jar.
= <1.5 kg if the flies are in free fall towards the bottom of the jar.
Those last two cancel each other out over a long enough period of time. On average the scale reads 1.5 kg.

>>9629959
Oh. Why?

>>9629965
When the flies accelerate up they exert more force than the force of gravity

>>9629967
This is true. But wouldn't that force dissipate more and more as the volume of the jar, and the distance of the fly to the bottom of the jar increases? The same way that if you aim a hair dryer at someone at the end of an indoor basket ball court, they wouldn't feel the force exerted by it?

>>9629985
You can't dissipate a force in a closed system like a jar. It just turns into a pressure gradient where below the flies is high and above the flies is low. Which means the bottom of the jar experiences more force than the top. This means the weigh of the flies is transferred to the jar and then to the scale.

>>9629985
If you divide the wind of a hair dryer over the entire cross-sectional area of an indoor basketball court of course it's going to be very small pressure. That doesn't mean the pressure isn't there. If this were the case then the flies could lift the jar from inside if it was light enough.

>>9630006
" You can't dissipate a force in a closed system like a jar. It just turns into a pressure gradient where below the flies is high and above the flies is low." I don't know anything about pressure gradients. Would you mind explaining how this happens?

>>9630014
So it would be the same amount of pressure, but spread out over a larger area? The same way that pouring a cup of water on a table takes up more area but is still the same amount of water?

>>9629069
1.5 kg
easy

>>9630227
It's 0.5 you brainlet

>>9629985
>force dissipate
no

>>9630041
>So it would be the same amount of pressure, but spread out over a larger area?
same FORCE over a larger area, meaning smaller pressure
pressure is force over area

the flies are in equilibrium so it's 1kg.

just get a scale, jar, 0.5kg of flies and find out you faggots

>>9629069
>this fucking shit again
>over 100 replies

/sci/ is chop full of newfaggot morons

D. none of the above, because weight isn't measured in kg. Can't believe /sci/ got got like this

Theoretical: Flies move and because of their movement their weight isn't measured by the scale so the answer is 1 and a little bit over.

Practical: 0.5 kg of flies is a shit ton of flies so they would be all jammed in there and probably couldn't fly so in that case the answer is 1.5 or a little bit less

>>9630732
Nvm this a closed system so the air the flies move when flying will not become insignificant and will effect the scale

>>9629069
1.5kg
maybe more or less before they suffocate and drop

>>9629094

Ah, misread it. Thought you meant between 1.5 and 1, this is correct.

>>9630725
>doesn't understand that, at constant elevation, the normal force is exactly proportional to the mass and thus the gravitational acceleration can be factored and discarded for simplicity
the absolute state of your Dunning-Kruger syndrome

>>9629069
Insufficient information, you need to know the atmospheric pressure inside the jar

the jar would have to be so large and so thin that the flies would just shatter it on impact. bad experiment, i can smell the chalk on you from over here yuck.