/sci/ - Science & Math

>>Mathematics is a language
Who are you quoting?

>>9614830
I hate this low-IQ meme.

>>9614834
The group of people you apparently belong to

it is tho

>>9614830
The universe is a holofractal

>>9614830
Is it not, faggot? Please elaborate.

>>9614834
>t. newfag

>>9614830
>>Mathematics is a language

This normie bullshit triggers me.

>mathematics is beautiful/perfect/discovered not invented
Normie bullshit

>mathematics is a language
Truth

>>9616437

>>9614963
take linguistics 101, you'll learn what's a language

>>9614830
What's wrong with that statement? It's a collection of symbols used to convey ideas and information. How is that not a language?

>>9616527
notation != language

>>9616530
That's actually pretty good point. I'm convinced now.

>>9614830
It is

>>9616568
Explain how it's a language.

>>9616527
That's like saying English IS the alphabet. Numbers aren't literally the symbols you write down, they are the abstraction of counting things. The mathematics of this idea is this abstraction of counting. The symbols you write down (numbers) is just how you express these ideas.

>>9614830
>Mathematics is a language

Fuck this leftist meme

>>9616757
Numbers are silent/variable/placeholder symbols. More like ways to describe 'non-collisionary space'

Identity = evaluation < physical priorities < concious priorities < properties

>>9616530
Math is not notation though. If you ever learned serious math subjects such as Math logic, Differential geometry, hell even Analysis you would know, that any math theory is based on definitions, after definitions go theorems and lemmas. So basically theorems and lemmas just try to connect different definitions. As Poincare once said "math is about giving the same things different names" So basically, math is language.

>>9617374
I am drunk, so I am sorry I butchered Poincare quote, he said "Math is art of giving same name to different things"

>>9614830
A languague is a set of symbols arranged according to a grammar, so math is a languague.

> If its not a natural language that resembles how one ape species communicates its not a language

>>9614830
t. doesn't know what a formal language is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_language

>>9614830
who the fuck would think that

>>9617364
Explain

>>9619344
>mathematics is a set of finite sequences of symbols in a finite set

>>9619378
>i add the word "finite" to definitions that would otherwise work so i can sound smart on the internet to people who didn't click the link

>>9619344
>formal languages are in any way similar to language

>>9619404
>formal languages aren't a kind of language because i said so!!!

>let us define x as
>not a language
brainlets

>>9619404
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

>>9619425
>posts a sentence in english
>pretends it's from another language

I can't even begin to imagine how distorted and malfunctioning one mind's must be to say something so obviously false like "math isn't a language".

>>9619404
You obviously don't know how to build grammars. Chris-chan may be retarded, but he invented sonichu. You're lower than him.

>>9619843
I can't even begin to imagine how distorted and malfunctioning one mind's must be to say something so obviously false like "math is a language".

>>9619911
The cat stared at you, didn't he?

>>9619964
No.

>>9619843
what you mean? It's not a language, there's no grammar or punctuation and you can't communicate with math
notation != language

>>9619973
I know he did


>>9619979
Of course it has a grammar. Fuck off. How do you think the compilers that generate the code that run in your fagbook pro that allow you to say dumb shit on the internet work?

>>9619983
you've gone from LARPing to trolling
>as if I'd ever be caught dead with fagbook jew

>>9614837
It's obviously a reddit thing.

>>9616530
Math is a written language.

>>9619979
>there's no grammar or punctuation

>>9620179
>a poorly written Wikipedia article with no relevant citations
Got any non popsci source?

>>9619419
>>formal languages aren't a kind of language because i said so!!!
Who are you quoting?

>>9620187

>>9620192
>>9619404

>>9620187

>>9620216
>One Mathematical Cat, Please!

>>9620228
>One Mathematical Dog, Please!

>>9614830

It literally is.

Logic!=math. Being a reductionist is a good sign that you don't know what you are talking about so you just add a layer of abstraction but say it as it's supposed to be obvious. Mathematics is not defined by the way we express the ideas.

If mathematics was a language why are you so dyslexic at it?

>>9616437
mathematics is a beautiful but imperfect invented language

>>9620363
>mathematics is a beautiful

>>9620363
No? There have been various changes to formalism and notation throughout history, but the concepts are still holding.

>>9620364
it's

>>9620365
what's your point?

>>9620372
That the way we express mathematics, and the logical systems we use change over time, so how on earth can it be a language?

>>9620377
are you trying to tell me that languages don't change, buddy?

>>9620386
No, but saying mathematics is a language means that it is a way of communicating ideas, but there are plenty of ways of communicating mathematical ideas and they are equivalent, so is the Language literally the idea? Or the ideas are more abstract entities. Is your idea of a chair dependant of if I call it a "chair" or "silla" in Spanish?

>>9620392
>and they are equivalent
[citation needed]

>>9620396
Well, I assume people that enter in these debates are usually a bit mathematical literate, but that's naive of my part. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_set_theory that for alternatives to set theory, there's also category theory. Historically, a lot of mathematics was argued with words as you can see from these texts https://www.maa.org/book/export/html/641727 and it has been pretty recent that we can put mathematics in such a language as modern set theory, but Leibniz arguments are still correct, Euclid + pasch axiom is enough for geometry even if the language is different to that of algebra.

>>9620392
so? that's like saying english isn't a language because you can write english words in a non-latin alphabet or speak them in one accent as opposed to another

>>9620409
alternatives to a theory are inequivalent to that theory by definition, dipshit. talk about mathematical illiteracy

>>9620414
>that's like saying english isn't a language because you can write English words in non latin alphabet or speak them in one accent or another
Are you american? Do you literally not understand what is to express an idea in a different language? Also, what the hell is writing English words in "non-latin alphabet? No the example is clear enough you moron, the idea of ducking green is independent of the way you express it.

>Alternative to a theory are different to that theory by definition
Jesus you are dumber than I thought, they are equivalent in the sense that a proposition that is true in one theory will be in the other one, it's just a change to foundations, that is, if you have an alternative formulation that predicts that there is a plane triangle whose internal sum any other thing than 180 degrees then you have a problem.

>>9619427
>a set (finite or infinite) of sentences
sorry chompsky but there are no infinite sets. math confirmed for not a language because languages are ill defined.

>>9620621
nt wildmerican

It could be used to establish initial communication with ayys, as could certainly physical ratios (electron to proton mass for example). Linguists need to get out, of course it doesn't satisfy your precious, artificially-constructed axioms of what constitutes a spoken language, it's not a statement to be taken absolutely literally you unimaginative autists.

This whole thread is nigger-tier.
Read the basics before spewing opinions on a topic: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/philosophy-mathematics/
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/platonism-mathematics/

>>9620824
>nigger-tier
Why the racism?

>>9620844
>racism
why the niggardry?

>>9620887
Why the bigotry?

>>9620897
nothing bigotted about it; it follows empirically

>>9620906
Seems based to me.

>>9620820
What the hell do you think math is? Pop sci and the number 2?

>>9621217
not following what you're saying. All I'm saying is that if we beamed the digits of pi out into space in some reasonable system (e.g. binary) then the ayys picking it up will realise it isn't just a fluke and some intelligence is transmitting it. Yes this is basic maths but still maths.

>>9620906
heyo no racism here please Xxxx

>>9614830
never heard a single person say this

t. 3rd year maths major

>>9621226
So? The language used there was a binary representation, the thing that would make them aware there are other intelligent being in the universe is our understanding of the concept of pi which is easily obtainable if we just show a graphical representation of a diameter and how much it fits in the cirumference of a circle. That concept is independent of what base number system you use, and has nothing to do with language.

>>9621249
t. never taken theory of automata

>>9621233
Where is the racism? She wrote that.

>>9621254
t. Extrapolates his gaps of knowledge

>>9621253
people often mention what I did in the context of communication where you don't come face to face. Trying to send an image that they can put together might be too much, whereas simply modulating a signal to represent binary digits of pi is a much more basic method.

Another interesting problem is, if we can communicate, but don't know where each other are (more hypothetical), how do we describe our location? We'd need, essentially, concepts of left and right, and it turns out to be possible to describe this by physics assuming the aliens are made of matter as opposed to antimatter (electromagnetism is the other way round for antimatter). Admittedly we'd need an actual language to discuss the physics, but in a loose sense the physics and associated mathematics is a means of communication. With some imagination there are other useful ways in which mathematics could facilitate contact with other intelligence.

>>9621401
Jesus reddit, how many times we need to tell you to fuck off?

>>9620906
>/usepackage

>>9621411
I try to give you nice things but all I get is hate

>>9621610
Nah, you just repeat pop sci memes.

>>9621683
they're popular for a reason, but that's beside the point. They demonstrate there is a case to be made that fundamental mathematics and physics can be used to establish dialogue between intelligences.

That being said, a sufficiently advanced intelligence might be able to work out that our radio broadcasts show an inherent intelligence to them, work out how to build a television, and watch us, but I doubt it, not least because of the weakness of our leaked signals. Communication with ayys would have to be targeted, and we may as well make it easy for them and just send pi or e or whatever in binary pulses to indicate intelligence.

>>9621746
Brilliant, why don't you post it on reddit so everyone can great you properly?

>>9621754
:o)