/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9614273
>Reich
every fucking time

lol why is this guy so obsessed with the worst pseudo scientific popsci fads

>>9614273
here we go again ......

>>9614355
>popsci fads

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reich_(geneticist)

>>9614445
>he doesn't even know when he was born
>scientist
>phone poster
this is a science board kiddo, only real scientists allowed. read this you might learn something https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/opinion/sunday/genetics-race.html

"You will sometimes hear that any biological differences among populations are likely to be small, because humans have diverged too recently from common ancestors for substantial differences to have arisen under the pressure of natural selection. This is not true. The ancestors of East Asians, Europeans, West Africans and Australians were, until recently, almost completely isolated from one another for 40,000 years or longer, which is more than sufficient time for the forces of evolution to work. Indeed, the study led by Dr. Kong showed that in Iceland, there has been measurable genetic selection against the genetic variations that predict more years of education in that population just within the last century."

>>9614461
"This study has been joined by others finding genetic predictors of behavior. One of these, led by the geneticist Danielle Posthuma, studied more than 70,000 people and found genetic variations in more than 20 genes that were predictive of performance on intelligence tests."

>>9614445
>>9614311
>Doctoral Advisor: David B. Goldstein
WHERE DOES IT END?!?

>>9614473
They are cleary on damage control mode.

>retarded misinterpretation on a blog

trash

Wait... So what does /pol do now that the jews are promoting /pol views?

Also David Reich
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/opinion/sunday/genetics-race.html

"It is true race is a social construct."

Who is right: David Reich, or some retard that doesn't understand science who is trying to misquote David Reich?

>>9614486
Here is the original, antifa thug.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/opinion/sunday/genetics-race.html

>>9614502
Did you even that? It says what I already know.

There are small genetic differences between populations, even though we are all very similar and share most genetic variation among populations.

Those small differences, however, do no equate to racist stereotypes.

>>9614508
As I said they are on damage control.

>>9614517
Who is on damage control? What damage are they trying to control?

I have a more plausible idea. Race isn't real. There is no conspiracy theory. You're a bunch of morons who can't read and live in a fantasy world.

>>9614311
sorry for being so smart

>>9614508
>Those small differences, however, do no equate to racist stereotypes.
That is an empirical claim. Prove it. A "racist stereotype" is that black men have poor impulse control and commit crumes. Chetty from Stanford, who tried hard to hide the plain truth of his data, found that black males in rich families are more likely to commit crimes that white men born in poor families. Are you saying that genes have nothing to do with this?

>>9614522
>There is no conspiracy theory.
A conspiracy is just a group of people that conspire to do something. If academics collectively or communally decide that investigating race scientifically is not allowed then there is a conspiracy. A conspiracy theory is simply stating there is a conspiracy.

>>9614445
>His parents are novelist Tova Reich and Walter Reich, a professor at George Washington University, who served as the first director of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.

Someone is missing the oven

>>9614525
Your assumption is that those stereotypes are 100% due to genetics.

This not only shows you have no idea how genetics really works, and you put faith in things you do not understand. You also assume you understand more than all geneticists know today and that you can simply wish away environmental factors for things like IQ or behavior.

>>9614522
The behavior of liberal creationists is very predictable. At least old-school creationists were funny sometimes.

>>9614539
>Your assumption is that those stereotypes are 100% due to genetics.
No, I am saying that they could be partially caused by genetics. You are saying they are not at all.

>>9614535
That is not the case, though. For one thing this idea contradicts itself. Either people are publishing data for your racism, as you claim, or there is a conspiracy and the truth is being subverted. You do realize those two ideas are mutually exclusive, right? The explanation is that there is no coverup, people are free to study anything they like, and you simply do not understand the results and wish to try to interpret them in your own way.

>>9614492
just turn up the cognitive dissonance and self loathing projection dials a bit more and all systems equilibriate

>>9614539
>Your assumption is that those stereotypes are 100% due to genetics.

Not him, but this is an obvious strawman. Everybody knows that behavioral patterns have a genetic and an environmental component.

>>9614543
>You are saying they are not at all.
I never made any such claim. The truth is that any trait is the result of gene-environment interactions. The old nature vs nurture model is a fallacious way of thinking about genetics.

>>9614548
It doesn't matter. What these people want is political action based solely on skin color.

>>9614544
>You do realize those two ideas are mutually exclusive, right?
Those aren't mutually exclusive. They could be spinning the data in the most PC way, avoiding asking certain tough questions, and even not publishing certain data sets. Just because some of their data agrees with a certain point of view does not mean they aren't also trying to subvert that point of view. You can't logic.

>>9614544
Nope. Since it's impossible to keep the old narrative, they will change the discourse a bit. That is, they will concede some (attenuated) points to maintain the egalitarian quasi-creationist narrative.

>>9614549
>The old nature vs nurture model is a fallacious way of thinking about genetics.
Of course it is, but when we run regressions we get these things called regression coefficients.

>>9614551
>skin color

Stop the strawmen. You know very well that this has nothing to do with skin color but with race.

>>9614549
>I never made any such claim.
This is an empirical claim you made:
>Those small differences, however, do no equate to racist stereotypes.
You didn't support it and now you are claiming that such claims can't even be supported. Maybe stop making sweeping empirical claims?

>>9614559
There is no "narrative." There is only data.

You are assuming that the small genetic differences we can measure equate to your ideas of race, intelligence, and behavior. They don't. You simply don't understand the science and refuse to learn. Then when someone posts anything about human genetics you BELIEVE supports your idea, you try to tout it as evidence, only to realize you can easily be contradicted by your own sources.

>>9614562
And behavior, of course. This "skin color fallacy" is very tiresome.

>>9614570
>>9614562
Ok, give me a genetic definition of race.

>>9614569
>There is only data.
All data in psychometrics support the view that there are significative differences in IQ between races

>>9614569
>You are assuming that the small genetic differences we can measure equate to your ideas of race, intelligence, and behavior. They don't.
Again, you are making sweeping empirical claims with zero support. Then you throw out elementary logical fallacies -- "you must thing this is 100% genetic!". Just stop. You are annoying.

>>9614576
There is zero evidence that any of those differences are due to 'races' or differences in heritability.

And before you try to rattle off some number like "genetics is XX% heritable!" try to understand that differences in traits between populations does NOT imply differences in heritability between populations. That's one of the small things you would know if you actually tried yo learn about genetics.

>>9614572
Taxons are not defined with only genetic data. Races, species etc. Must be clades to be valid taxons.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clade

>>9614580
That's all you can do? Link a wikipedia article with a high school biology class definition?

I'm asking you to give me solid genetic reasons to divide people into groups.

>>9614579
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ
Although the heritability of IQ for adults is between 58% and 77%,[5] (with some more-recent estimates as high as 80%[6] and 86%[7]) genome-wide association studies have so far identified only 20%-50% of the genetic variation that contributes to heritability.[8]

>>9614584
>differences in traits between populations does NOT imply differences in heritability between populations

Learn how population genetics works.

How does he not know what year he was born? How is that possible for someone born in the 70s in the US?
Seriously, how does that happen, what about his parents, they dont remember? Wtf im confused.

>>9614273
http://www.unz.com/jman/jaymans-race-inheritance-and-iq-f-a-q-f-r-b/

>>9614355
>population genetics is pseudoscience
Not an argument

>>9614583
I'm trying to help. You probably do not know how a phylogenetic analysis work. All taxons in systematics must be clades. A clade is a group of organisms that share not just a common but also an exlusive ancestor. How you label these clades (races, species etc) is just convention.

>>9614599
I'll help you out. People have already tried to do it. It doesn't work. If you try to group people based on how similar or different they are genetically to others, it doesn't produce what you call race... unless you believe al PIE people as well as places like India and Pakistan are European.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/298/5602/2381.full

>>9614587
Nobody is claiming that there is a difference in heritability between groups. The assertion is that there is a genetical component to cognition.

>>9614602
No, the assertion is that blacks have worse genes for intelligence or behavior. That assumption is that there are differences in heritability, and that assumption is fallacious.

>>9614605
No, you may have different alleles for such and such gene. That does not mean that the pattern of inheritance of these alleles will be different.

>>9614609
Right. And the assumption is that difference races on average have more alleles that are better or worse than others. That assumption is what I am saying is false. Differences in traits between populations does not imply differences in heritability between populations.

>MFW people dedicate significant amounts of their time to shit like this

This isn't just autism, there has to be something wrong with you to care THIS MUCH about something which would only make the world a worse place if research was released proving this to be true. Its funny that ANYONE can be like this, but I probably should be sad.

>>9614601
That is literally the definition of "caucasian" which was how "racist" Eugenicists categorized people at the turn of the 20th century. It is based on skull shape, it is is remarkably accurate genetically.

>>9614605
>what is the MAO-A gene

>>9614549
>creates a strawman and then proceeds to refute it
Well done my friend well done

>>9614601
>I'm going to show those racists cretins promoting 19th century racist pseudoscience!
>gives literally the definition of caucasian that 19th-20th century Eugenicists gave

>>9614632
>>9614624
That is not what the paper says at all. Learn to read.

>>9614601
Genetic variation, classification and race" by L.B.Jorde and S.P.Wooding. (2004) Nature Genetics Supplement

This is an example of a cladogram of human evolution. We could label these branches as species, subspecies, races etc. These labels don't carry any ontological weight. Unless you are a creationist.

>>9614610
That's not more or less alleles. They are just different due to drift or selected on different environments. There are no superior or inferior races, species etc.

>>9614635
Caucasians include all of the Middle East and much of the Indian Subcontinent. The fact that we all group together genetically confirms 19th century Eugenic research.

>>9614636
https://www.nature.com/articles/ng1435
The average proportion of nucleotide differences between a randomly chosen pair of humans (i.e., average nucleotide diversity, or π) is consistently estimated to lie between 1 in 1,000 and 1 in 1,500 (refs. 9,10). This proportion is low compared with those of many other species, from fruit flies to chimpanzees11,12

Of the 0.1% of DNA that varies among individuals, what proportion varies among main populations? Consider an apportionment of Old World populations into three continents (Africa, Asia and Europe), a grouping that corresponds to a common view of three of the 'major races'16,17. Approximately 85–90% of genetic variation is found within these continental groups, and only an additional 10–15% of variation is found between them18,19,20 (Table 1). In other words, ∼90% of total genetic variation would be found in a collection of individuals from a single continent, and only ∼10% more variation would be found if the collection consisted of Europeans, Asians and Africans. The proportion of total genetic variation ascribed to differences between continental populations, called FST, is consistent, regardless of the type of autosomal loci examined (Table 1). FST varies, however, depending on how the human population is divided. If four Old World populations (European, African, East Asian and Indian subcontinent) are examined instead of three, FST (estimated for 100 Alu element insertion polymorphisms) decreases from 14% to 10% (ref. 21). These estimates of FST and π tell us that humans vary only slightly at the DNA level and that only a small proportion of this variation separates continental populations.

>>9614636
Considering the results shown in Figures 2 and 3a, it might be tempting to conclude that genetic data verify traditional concepts about races. But the individuals used in these analyses originated in three geographically discontinuous regions: Europe, sub-Saharan Africa and East Asia. When a sample of South Indians, who occupy an intermediate geographic position (see also Fig. 1) is added to the analysis (Fig. 3b), considerable overlap is seen among these individuals and both the East Asian and European samples, probably as a result of numerous migrations from various parts of Eurasia into India during the past 10,000 years40

ncestry, then, is a more subtle and complex description of an individual's genetic makeup than is race41. This is in part a consequence of the continual mixing and migration of human populations throughout history. Because of this complex and interwoven history, many loci must be examined to derive even an approximate portrayal of individual ancestry.

Data from many sources have shown that humans are genetically homogeneous and that genetic variation tends to be shared widely among populations. Genetic variation is geographically structured, as expected from the partial isolation of human populations during much of their history. Because traditional concepts of race are in turn correlated with geography, it is inaccurate to state that race is “biologically meaningless.” On the other hand, because they have been only partially isolated, human populations are seldom demarcated by precise genetic boundaries. Substantial overlap can therefore occur between populations, invalidating the concept that populations (or races) are discrete types.

>>9614636
When large numbers of loci are evaluated, it is often possible to infer individual ancestry, at least approximately. If done accurately and with appropriate reservations, ancestral inference may be useful in genealogical studies, in the forensic arena and in the design of case-control studies. This should not be confused, however, with the use of ethnicity or race (genetically measured or self-identified) to make decisions about drug treatment or other medical therapies. Responses to these therapies will often involve nongenetic factors and multiple alleles, and different populations will often share these alleles. When it finally becomes feasible and available, individual genetic assessment of relevant genes will probably prove more useful than race in medical decision making.

It took me all of what, 10 minnutes?, to read and understand that paper and point out the parts that directly contradict your ideas.

Learn genetics or shut up about it.

>>9614636
Here is another example.
A.M.Bowcock , A.Ruiz-Linares , J.Tomfohrde , E.Minch , J.R.Kidd & L.L.Cavalli-Sforza (1994) High resolution of human evolutionary trees with polymorphic microsatellites. Nature 368,455-457

>>9614650
There are no contradictions. There is enough variation otherwise they would not be able to make a cladogram. Each branch is a monophyletic group. The labels you use to name the branches are irrelevant. I also dislike the label race since it is a loaded term.

>9614650
You suck at rhetoric then because that makes no contradictory claims, it just tries to rhetorically spit numbers.

For instance:
> These estimates of FST and π tell us that humans vary only slightly at the DNA level and that only a small proportion of this variation separates continental populations.
This says nothing about what the variations that do exist amount to. Absolutely nothing. Most of our DNA is junk. Just because a small percentage of DNA varies between the races does not mean that those differences don't cause dramatic behavioral and cognitive differences. It does not answer the question at all. It only uses rhetoric, not science, to try to convince you there "couldn't possibly be anything there". There certainly could be.

You are intellectually pathetic. Take a basic logic course.

>>9614649
>Because traditional concepts of race

Traditional concepts of race are based on folk taxonomy. Of course most of them will not map in the modern clades. The same way groups like Protists, Reptiles, Fishes etc also do not exist (they are not clades).

>>9614616
understanding how genes express itself in humans will allow us to modify negroids to be smarter with cripsr cas9 technology. the problem is that research into this field is highly taboo and stating basic conclusions get your funds slashed and so on.

>>9614668
You're using uninformed comments on a subject you know nothing about. We can also only look at alleles if you want. Less than 2% of alleles are restricted to any one continent, and most alleles are shared by all populations is almost equal variation.

>>9614678
Nothing is taboo. You can study human genetics all you want. It's your political ideologies that are backward and ill informed.

Even if any of the ideas of racism were true, that would not be an excuse for political action.

>>9614679
>Less than 2% of alleles are restricted to any one continent, and most alleles are shared by all populations is almost equal variation.
This is the same fallacy I already outlined. Just because you use rhetoric to say the differences are small does not mean the differences aren't meaningful. Those are two difference claims. You are a cliche from the book "How to Lie with Statistics".

>>9614687
That's not a fallacy. It's observable fact. The fallacy is is you pretending to understand genetics and saying "the small differences matter because I say they do, and they matter in the ways I say they do!"

>>9614678
>understanding how genes express itself in humans will allow us to modify negroids to be smarter with cripsr cas9 technology

And less violent. That is, to make them like East Asians.

>>9614692
Less than 1% of any given population is actually violent. You're just scared.

>>9614686
>Nothing is taboo.

>>9614686
so why did james watson almost lost his career for stating basic human genetic facts? he also got slandered in the article linked for stating the plain fact of ashenazkism superiority.

>>9614698
He said things that were not scientifically accurate.

If Hawkings said the Earth was flat, should we have believed him? In science, who you are does not matter. Only data matters.

>>9614690
You are the one claiming small genetic differences couldn't possibly amount to race stereotypes. That is a fallacy. Stop projecting. You are the one flatly claiming that these small variations couldn't possibly be meaningful. It is a logical fallacy. You have to then research how these "small" variations affect behavior and cognition which you are claiming they can't. Take a basic logic course. Fallacies are fallacies.

>>9614694

>>9614705
It's not a fallacy. Read the David Reich article. Read the papers cited here. When all the leading geneticists in the world are saying race isn't real, your only fall back to constantly scream that it's a conspiracy and that's why you're shitposting on /sci/. You hate science and you hate reality.

>>9614694
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24326626

>>9614707
The "warrior gene" is a myth. There is no evidence that higher testosterone, let alone an allele of the MAOA gene, results in higher levels of violence and antisocial behavior. It was a big popsci myth.

>>9614690
>>9614690
you're the genetically retarded one. every difference in genes matter. of course, it would be context dependent based on the cascading results of proteins and ensuing interactions. for example, the difference of someone having blood that literally carry less oxygen is just ONE nucleotide.

now, a typical nigger blood is different just because of ONE nucleotide. now think of all other 10% fst accounts for.

>>9614709
maybe read the greentext in op for what the author thinks? he is infact trying to inform masses that quantifiable group differences is the emerging opinion.

>>9614709
Race is just a label. I don't care about taxonomy. The important things for a biologist are the evolutionary lines of ancestry (systematics). That is, we want to know if a group is a monophyletic, paraphyletic etc. If you want to call the group race, species whatever it does not matter.

>>9614720
OP is not the author. It's a blog.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/opinion/sunday/genetics-race.html

>>9614709
kek
You are boring me, but for the sake of all the other readers here:
Saying that genetic variation is small, or even using rhetoric like "tiny", does not mean that said variation isn't important to behavior and cognition.

>>9614712
Read>>9614711

>>9614664
>There is enough variation otherwise they would not be able to make a cladogram.
You could make a cladogram of your own family tree look exactly like that one. This statement is literally meaningless.

>>9614731
Every family member is there own race! It works!

>>9614725
>I have deep sympathy for the concern that genetic discoveries could be misused to justify racism. But as a geneticist I also know that it is simply no longer possible to ignore average genetic differences among “races.”

>With the help of these tools, we are learning that while race may be a social construct, differences in genetic ancestry that happen to correlate to many of today’s racial constructs are real.
>I am worried that well-meaning people who deny the possibility of substantial biological differences among human populations are digging themselves into an indefensible position, one that will not survive the onslaught of science.

>>9614734
And? This was a critique?

>>9614736
>If I only read two sentences I like, I can't be wrong!

>>9614731
>>9614734

To be fair this is not true. We are not at the phylogeny, but on the tokogeny level at this point.

>>9614736

Why couldn't racism be scientifically accurate? What am I missing? I keep reading stuff like this and it never made sense why they were exclusionary.

>>9614740
Sounds like you're the one who didn't read the NYT article. This is the concluding sentence.
>Arguing that no substantial differences among human populations are possible will only invite the racist misuse of genetics that we wish to avoid.
In case you're still not getting what this means: he acknowledges group differences but disagrees with racist conclusions.

>>9614734
Well you have the Sandra race and the Cathy race, they have been warring for years. The timothy race is a race of lazy good for nothings while the Calvin race are more likely to do something with their life. The Richard and Charles races are the longest lived races at 65 and 72 respectively, while Brittany and Justin are the youngest two races at 23 and 26 respectively.

>>9614743
Racism is mostly related to moral position. To discriminate people because they're inferior is not nice.

>>9614751
That doesn't mean that racist stereotypes aren't scientifically or statistically accurate. We could say yes, most blacks are bad at math and there are few exceptions, but we should give all blacks the benefit of the doubt on math ability for ethical reasons.

>>9614759
Yes, I don't disagree with that. Most people react the racist stereotypes emotionally without critical thinking skills.

>>9614743
The differences between races are biological facts. That's not racism.

Science cannot answer how you should use this knowledge. This is why both racism and anti-racism are not scientific issues.

>>9614759
>We could say yes, most blacks are bad at math and there are few exceptions, but we should give all blacks the benefit of the doubt on math ability for ethical reasons.

I agree. Everybody should have the same opportunity regardless of race. All races are better at some things. For example, you can't expect East Asians dominating basketball but they will excel in mathematics.

>>9614777
And we don't need an afirmative action program for east asians in basketball.

>>9614777
>For example, you can't expect East Asians dominating basketball but they will excel in mathematics.
Wow another set of stereotypes that are worthless in the real world.
Enjoy your economic loss passing up good basketball players and hiring Asians who are bad at math just because you are superstitious.

>>9614786
We are talking about means, not particular individuals anon.

>>9614791
More accurately, distributions.

>>9614796
You are right. Thank you for the correction.

>>9614791
You don't hire mean's, anon you hire individuals.
Why would you use race as a measurement for basketball performance instead of literally any other metric. I'll give you a freebie suggest starting with height.

What if different epigenetic markings allowed for certain genomic loci to have increased mutation rates when exposed to certain environmental stimuli?

>>9614801
>Why would you use race as a measurement for basketball performance instead of literally any other metric.

And why not both? The more information, the better.

>>9614813
>And why not both? The more information, the better.
Because you are adding information at no benefit to either party. The information doesn't actually make your decision any more informed. Like choosing your employees based on the color of shirt they are wearing. More information is better.
"I just don't hire anyone in red shirts because I hear they die at a much higher rate on the documentary film series star trek."

>trump plays 3d ch-

>>9614273
Liberal creationists BTFO'd

>>9614800
say uncle you little bitch, say sorry for making such a stupid mistake, beg for mercy you worm

>>9614273
Harvard geneticist David Reich
>3rd Reich

Doctoral Advisor: David B. Goldstein
> -stein

>>9614867
Why SJWs always show such disgusting and disrespectful behavior towards other people?

>>9614940
They are basically cliches of bullies from 80s teen movies. "you small dicked loser, I bet you never get laid! virgin!"

>>9614273
nice article. It's what everyone above a certain IQ and with non-diseased thinking pathways understood already.

/pol/ was right

>>9615029
This time /pol/ was right, after all.

>>9614698
Because he's not Jewish.

>>9614743
Its Jewish wishwashy. They know deep down that this will justify "racism" as being not only scientific, but normal and morally justifiable, and make people want to explore the behavioral differences and cognitive differences between races,which we also know exist. That second point is the real driver of race denialism.

>>9614786
The Chinese are literally performing eugenics to create Asian basketball players. Yao Ming is an outlier among Asians.

People who deny genes will be selected out of the gene pool, and the false belief of racial equality will die alongside it.

>>9614786
The irony of you linking Yao Ming in this context

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yao_Ming

>Yao is the only child of 6 ft 7 in (2.01 m) Yao Zhiyuan and 6 ft 3 in (1.91 m) Fang Fengdi,[6] both of whom were former professional basketball players.[7] At 11 pounds (5.0 kg), Yao weighed more than twice as much as the average Chinese newborn.[8] When Yao was nine years old, he began playing basketball and attended a junior sports school.[9] The following year, Yao measured 5 feet 5 inches (1.65 m)[10] and was examined by sports doctors, who predicted he would grow to 7 feet 3 inches (2.21 m).

dude was an outlier from the start. Its why you don't see hundreds of Yao Ming dominating world basketball.

>>9614457
Dawkins believes in races.

>>9614273
>At a meeting a few years later, Dr. Watson said to me and my fellow geneticist Beth Shapiro something to the effect of “When are you guys going to figure out why it is that you Jews are so much smarter than everyone else?” He asserted that Jews were high achievers because of genetic advantages conferred by thousands of years of natural selection to be scholars, and that East Asian students tended to be conformist because of selection for conformity in ancient Chinese society. (Contacted recently, Dr. Watson denied having made these statements, maintaining that they do not represent his views; Dr. Shapiro said that her recollection matched mine.)

>What makes Dr. Watson’s and Mr. Wade’s statements so insidious is that they start with the accurate observation that many academics are implausibly denying the possibility of average genetic differences among human populations, and then end with a claim — backed by no evidence — that they know what those differences are and that they correspond to racist stereotypes. They use the reluctance of the academic community to openly discuss these fraught issues to provide rhetorical cover for hateful ideas and old racist canards.

Huh, so this attitude is what made A.Jews so hated and poisonous to white Europeans. Makes sense.

Here is all you need to know about race and IQ:
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/should-research-on-race-and-iq-be-banned/

>>9615370
You think it's bad now, wait till 100 or 200 years from now when genetic modification comes into play. First world countries, and possibly only the rich, will be able to afford it. 3rd world countries will be left in the dust. Literally poor, stupid, and dying

>>9615389
>3rd world countries will be left in the dust.
Oh, anon, without international aid and charity, Africa would have a fraction of its current population. It is a giant malthusian death trap. Imagine a world where a billion people starve in one year. It'll happen in our lifetimes.

>guy is literally basically supporting /pol/'s position that races have genetic differences, a position many in academia disagree with, with only disagreement being that people need to be careful on how they approach the research
>thread is full of /pol/ users just calling him a Jew

>>9615453
I really don't fucking get things. How is proof that different races have different DNA also proof that you should become racist over these differences?
>Also
How is it not common knowledge that regardless of what DNA you are born with, you can go through experiences that teach you things and then your nature can change based on what you learned?

Race is a concept originating from Morphology, which has been debunked by Darwinism. It's on the same realm of logic as stating that a giraffes neck is long because its ancestors kept trying to reach long places, and the attempts caused genetic alterations. furthermore, race is defined by bone structure and skin color at its core,however the genes which affect these traits are not well defined genetically. In that regard, any classification using race is not built on genes, and instead is circular.

>>9615563
>race is defined by bone structure and skin color at its core,however the genes which affect these traits are not well defined genetically
sources plox

>>9614539
>You also assume you understand more than all geneticists know today and that you can simply wish away environmental factors for things like IQ or behavior.
What part of this sentence:
>"Chetty from Stanford, who tried hard to hide the plain truth of his data, found that black males in rich families are more likely to commit crimes that white men born in poor families."
do you not understand? The data seems to indicate that environment does not reduce the black man´s proclivity for crime. Other studies further indicate that family income has a smaller impact on IQ than ethnicity, as evidenced by the fact that blacks underperform relative to whites on IQ tests in every income bracket.

>redefining what a race is

No-one's ever said there isn't diversity in humans idiot. What we're saying is that traditional race theory and all assumptions (such as superiority and inferiority) are wrong.

>No-one's ever said there isn't diversity in humans idiot. What we're saying is that traditional race theory and all assumptions (such as superiority and inferiority) are wrong.

That diversity correlates mainly along racial lines. Traditional races dont exist, but genetic clusters are pretty much the same thing except more blurry, and they exist. Picture related. If races didnt exist, then there would only be one big undifferentiated blob, not correlating with any geographical or racial categories. Instead large scale genetic data suggests a structure looking like this.

>>9615616

>What we're saying is that superiority and inferiority) are wrong.

You dont actually know that, the claim that persistent intelligence gap between races is only due to environment is not scientifically established. For all we know the gap could be mostly genetic.

>>9615638

>You dont actually know that

Neither do you and the evidence is overwhelming against it.

>the claim that persistent intelligence gap between races

You mean IQ gap. Which is a questionable way of measuring intelligence in itself. The IQ presents no problems because what right wingers are doing is something called a "sampling error". They're looking at this moment in time and assuming that's how things always are. In reality, history is much more complicated. If you'd done an IQ test with iron age British people and compared them to British people today, they'd probably score around 60. Don't forget they couldn't read and had no written language.

>>9615632

>genetic clusters are pretty much the same thing

No they're not. You've just changed your definition of race to fit the data and kept all your retarded assumptions as well.

>>9615645

clusters are literally the same thing as races, except that they are not sharply delineated, and do not necessarily imply any significant phenotypical differences such as in intelligence (but certainly do not rule them out either)

>>9615616
>>9615563
>>9615643
>>9615645
>when you try so hard not to be racist
I hope you link this to your Facebook so you can at least get some likes, friend.

>>9615646

They're not otherwise they'd be called races. Race is the theory that there are irreconcilable differences between groups of humans and that you can predict someone's features, both physical and personality, from their race. Genetic clusters are just alleles that tend to show up more often depending on a groups historic location, but even that still has work to be done since mixed-race people make it more complicated.

>>9615643

>Neither do you and the evidence is overwhelming against it.

It is not. The evidence is inconclusive either way.

>If you'd done an IQ test with iron age British people and compared them to British people today, they'd probably score around 60.

Nobody says environment is not a factor. However, IQ tests (which are well established as a good measure of general intelligence and correlate strongly with basically any other such proposed measure) done on people of different races who grow up in the same time in similar environment still shows a significant IQ gap. Hence why it is persistent. Your claim that this is likely to be environmental as well is not established at all.

>>9615655

>Race is the theory that there are irreconcilable differences between groups of humans and that you can predict someone's features, both physical and personality, from their race.

No, that is merely one narrow definition of race theory, and one pretty much nobody uses for a long time, even among self-described race realists. Other more modern views very much allow indistinct, overlapping, imperfect but still statistically significant categories of race. Basically clusters but with the added claim that they turn our to be important on a population level. Which they very well may be.

>>9615655

>that you can predict someone's features, both physical and personality, from their race.

you definitely can, at least above the level of chance

is that only due to environmental differences? nobody can say that for sure

>>9615660

There were like two adoptive studies and they were very methodologically flawed. Keep in mind as well you cannot infer anything from statistics without a causative link. Sounds demanding I know but this is /sci/ and that's the scientific method.

>>9615663

>No, that is merely one narrow definition of race theory

No, that is race theory. What right wingers are trying to do is re-fit their hypothesis to fit data but still advance it, which is something you absolutely cannot do in science.

>>9615669

>you definitely can, at least above the level of chance

You can't. I mean, the American Anthropological Association ditched the term race because of that.

>low IQ people debating the same boring points about race

Just read the article brainlets. It speaks for itself.

>>9614508
D a m a g e
C o n t r o l

>>9614539
The dishonesty jumps

>>9615677

Right wingers don't read articles beyond cropping the clickbait headline to use as propaganda.

>>9614569
>there is no narrative
He said, while spinning narrative

>>9614616
>don’t release information if it might have bad social consequences
Fuck you faggot

>>9615685
The article is pretty much completely supportive of /pol/. The caveats are just "SJW please don't fucking roast me "

>>9614616
This is anti-science
You’d be cheering on the persecution of Galileo for disrupting Catholic Europe, Darwinian biologists in the Soviet Union and Jewish physicists in national socialist Germany
Fuck you faggot

>>9614616
And yet it moves, you fucking cunt

>>9614616
Yes, it's much better to blame society for blacks low achievement. As soon as you start blaming innocent people for why tyrone with 85 IQ isn't an engineer you run into problems.

>>9614273
Why do white people hate being white? It's okay to be white, OP.

>>9615703
I truly hate these people. Enemies of truth.

>>9615674

>Keep in mind as well you cannot infer anything from statistics without a causative link.

Goes both ways, as you keep forgetting. We cannot infer that the gap is environmental either.

>You can't. I mean, the American Anthropological Association ditched the term race because of that.

Wrong, and you really have no idea what you are talking about. Simply pick a random black person, and even ignoring all the complexities about the definition of race or intelligence, you will score well above the level of chance in predicting their IQ result, on average. This is a statistical fact, not disputed by anyone in the field. The only dispute is whether this prediction is due to environment or genetics, or both in some ratio.

>No, that is race theory.

The core of the issue is the same. Genetic clusters = races with statistical uncertainty added on top. You can choose to call it something different if it makes you feel better, but that is just semantics.

>What right wingers are trying to do is re-fit their hypothesis to fit data but still advance it, which is something you absolutely cannot do in science.

What the fuck? Modifying the hypothesis to fit new data is what you do in science routinely. If it fits, it sits.

Genes aren't needed to delineate race.

Premise 1: Differing populations have differing phenotypes, including (but not limited to) facial structure, hair type/color, lip structure, skull size, brain size etc.

Premise 2: Differing populations have differing morphology which, along with this population’s phenotype, evolved in response to climatic demands along with sexual selection.

Premise 3: This population must originate from a distinct geographic location.

Conclusion: If all three of the above premises are true, then race—in the minimalist sense—exists and is biologically real.

>>9615645
Our definitions of species changed with time. The definitions of race should also change to reflect our contemporary understanding of human evolution.

>>9615685
The left is the main anti-science faction as far as I know.

>>9615716

Pick a random black person in a population and, yes, this will be true.

What about when you are selecting from specific sub-populations? Say a well-off black engineer moves into an affluent neighborhood. Do you think that this person being black will be the best predictor of IQ?

>>9615917
>Our definitions of species changed with time.
The definition never changed. Our classification of particular species changed according to newly discovered evidence about them.

>>9615965
>The definition never changed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species_problem
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/species/

Liberal creationists are always wrong. Always.

>>9614273
BUMP!

>>9615986
The species problem does not show a changing definition of species, it shows a plurality of definitions. The problem is not simply "what is the definition of species," it is whether species exist objectively. In that respect, the analogy to race is apt.

>>9616181
Many biologist do not believe that species exist at all.

>>9615986
this is the science board, faggot

>>9616465
>bled nevelnyi

We all knew this was right. Amerindian higher civilization potential is a historical fact.

Now go back to europe, subhumans, your pestilent inferior kind keeps poisoning this land. Disgusting creatures.

Why are institutions like harvard so anti-science?

>>9616181
But why stop there? The distinction between the animal world and the inanimate world is arbitrary, after all they're both made of atoms right?

Let's completely abandon all forms of rational thinking, lest it lead us to uncomfortable truths.

>>9616750
The discrimination felt by rocks, trees, and other objects is disgusting.

>>9615632
>Hadza
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadza_people

never heard about these people. pretty interesting. they look similar to other nearby ethnic groups, despite the huge gene difference. and apparently huge gene difference in their group, despite there being less than 2,000 of them. crazy.

they also had stories of giants. hmm...

>>9614551
Skin color can often act as a proxy indicator for race, dumbfuck. Is this actually that difficult for you to comprehend?

>>9614273
David 3rd Reich

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EInzpVmgCwk

>>9614273
>David Reich
>Reich

Mein Neger

>>9617183
Year

>>9614522
>>9614539
>>9614544
>>9614551

>>9614273

>>9614492

People are having an orgasm on /pol/ right now.

>>9617464
It actually disproves all your shilling about them and muh media. This has happened many many times though and you just go back to posting .jpgs because pol is the lowest IQ group humanity has ever produced.

>>9614711
>Reports show that when we observed a group who statistically commit the most crime, they statistically commit more crime.
TRULY fascinating study, REALLY makes you think.

They literally say they only care about the allele when it appears in blacks. Great "study" my man.

>>9614650
Much of these post is dedicated to a wordy explanation of Lewontin's fallacy that crumbles under close inspection. To illustrate how useless it is, I would point out that it also applies to breeds of dogs, yet nobody would feel the need to trivialize the differences there.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.174.698&rep=rep1&type=pdf

>Data from many sources have shown that humans are genetically homogeneous and that genetic variation tends to be shared widely among populations. Genetic variation is geographically structured, as expected from the partial isolation of human populations during much of their history. Because traditional concepts of race are in turn correlated with geography, it is inaccurate to state that race is “biologically meaningless.” On the other hand, because they have been only partially isolated, human populations are seldom demarcated by precise genetic boundaries. Substantial overlap can therefore occur between populations, invalidating the concept that populations (or races) are discrete types.
Also notice that this paragraph is literally just the continuum fallacy? Most of the authors other denials are predicated on these two incorrect points

>>9617464

>>9614786
He is a literal eugenics project result of the Communist party though.
Are you admitting that eugenics and selective breeding is a positive thing, Anon?

>>9614445

>>9617485
Hey man, don't diss eugenics. If humanity all got down and agreed on a good direction for the species it could be a massive boon.

>>9617485
>Are you admitting that eugenics and selective breeding is a positive thing, Anon?

Of course. Wait... there is someone that opposes eugenics!!??

>>9617490
>no way human races evolved different behavioral patterns during 40000 years of isolation in vastly different environments. That's just superstitious!
>but eugenics can change it massively within 2 or 3 generations and I'm in full support of it
At least be consistent in your views.

>>9617488
>all of humanity agrees to breed only the smartest individuals
>99% of them turn out to be white
Sounds good to me.

>>9617508
>>99% of them turn out to be white
You mean Jewish

>>9617519
>Ashkenazi Jews, most of whom are heavily mixed with German/Polish blood
>not white

>>9614273
>Racial realism article on NYT

OH FUGG XD

>>9617508
Eugenics by genetic engineering, of course.

>99% of them turn out to be white
Most are East Asians

>>9617565
>Most are East Asians
>average is the same as the far right tale
No, you are just dumb.

>>9617573
There are more East Asianz than whites, antifa moonbat.

>>9617579
And yet the list of Chinese accomplishments in math and science is super short.

>>9617588
You should know that Chinese civilization was more advanced that Western civilization up until the renaissance
I agree there are racial differences in intelligence but it looks bad if you also insist that your race/ethnicity is the most intelligent. East Asian IQ scores are a blessing because they can be used to disassociate race and IQ from "white supremacy"

>>9617588
And yet the list of Chinese accomplishments in math and science is super short.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science_and_technology_in_China

Liberal creationists are always wrong. Always.

>>9617588
>and yet
East asians are still at the top.

>>9614494
Stephen Hsu is a physicist.

>>9617405 >>9617418
Isn't Reich a Jewish Surname?

>>9617597

>>9617599
That's not what irony means. Your own crazy low intelligence can't make something ironic. Go back to your containment board.

>>9617604

>>9614311 >>9614273
Jewish Phenotype pride Worldwide

>>9617629 >>9617629

>>9617604
actually it is Ironic if you think about it

>>9617597
makes you think

>>9617604

>>9617690
>"conservative" SJW chimp who can't understand irony
>calling others SJW

get some self-awareness; you share literally all of your behavioral and cognitive tendencies with tumblr.

>>9614517 >>9614480 >>9614273
>damage control.
d a m a g e
c o n t r o l

>>9617690

>>9617744
>this passage from the fascism bible will surely prove my point

>>9617750
Fascism gets a bad wrap because of a few bad examples.

Does Reich clarify which of the several popular definitions of "race" he uses?

>>9617752
Italian version of Fascism wasn't that bad.

Mussolini and Italians weren't so racist in WW2 compared to Nazi Germany.

>>9617750
are you mentally challenged senpay

>>9617555
>Khazaria
Khazaria was White

>>9616465
>faggot
why the homophobia?

>>9614616
at the back of their minds all leftists know race is real but this mentality helps them block it out

>>9617878
Define real. Social constructs are real, so race is real. Nobody says it isn't real. Why is your head so far up your ass?

>>9617750
It's from Saint Ted you ass

>/pol/ says race is real
>See proof that jews are the smartest race
>THAT'S LIES
Kek, race "realists" right?

Crisper exists so it doesn't matter anymore. In 100 years we will all be actual anthropomorphic creatures if the furries are never stopped.

>>9618019
Making anime cat girls real

>>9617986
No serious race realist denies this. They certainly seem to score anywhere from 5-10 points higher than the upper-scoring white populations.

It is completely legitimate, however, to be frustrated with the Jewish community that has lied to and subverted its host nations. This grievance is legitimate regardless of whether the perpetrator was intelligent or not.

>>9618047
>Jewish community that has lied to and subverted its host nations.
Proof?

>>9618047
Superior intellect is better than your pathetic kind chimping out about it.

>>9618047
None of that is legitimate. Since you can't understand logic, another clue that you're wrong is that everyone who agrees with you is stupid. In lieu of an ability to reason, this is a good tip.

>>9618019
It won't even be crispr. Completely synthetic from scratch DNA is more likely.

>>9618047
>Lied
You sound just like Blacks who make a conspiracy and say whites are always lying.
>Jews/whites are rich
>It's not that they are smarter or anything IT'S BECAUSE THEY ARE EVIL

http://www.unz.com/isteve/reich-in-nyt-how-genetics-is-changing-our-understanding-of-race/
>Similarly, most of the genetic and phenotypic variations among members of an extended family are among individuals as well, but that doesn’t mean Extended Family Does Not Exist. Indeed, the genetic arithmetic is pretty similar for the relative size of similarities and differences by race and the relative size of similarities and differences by extended family such as nephew/niece and grandchild.
Steve Sailer dropping bombs

were all the same, even though we all look and behave wildly different given almost identical conditions.

>>9618286
Why haven't we heard horror stories about all the African, not African American with white admixture, kids that celebrities have adopted? If blacks were so horrible, don't you think we would be hearing about Brad and Angelina's kids more?

>>9618294
no

>>9614273
The (((scientific community))) is slowly leaking out redpills about biological determinism and race realism so then when the Chinks eventually creates a viable genetic scanning/embryonic selection techniques that'll make it possible to determine the intelligence of embryos, it won't shock naive westerners when we find out that intelligence is linked to race. Also, we are a decade away from being able to select for intelligence via embryo selection and we will soon have a eugenics cold war. The science community see the writing on the wall and are aware that as long as egalitarian leftists control the narrative about Eugenics in the west,we will rapidly fall behind Asia.

>>9618047
>Asians may be higher b-but they're less creative/innovative!
>Jews may be higher b-but they're evil!

>>9618056
>proof?
LMAOING

>>9618047
Wrong. Amerindians have demonstrated a higher development rate than europeans. Therefore Amerindians have more civilization potential than europeans.

Replacing all europeans with Amerindians in Americas would be the optimsl outcome.

>>9618425
Amerindians were the first hapa race.

>>9614694
what kind of a fucking argument is that?

>>9618527
A leftist one.

>>9615950

>>9618126

Moral fags won't let that happen.

>>9618056

Currently, the most striking example is their attempts to alter the demographics of their host nation. See pic related. This isn't the first time they have done this, historically. For example, they went behind the backs of the people of Spain and opened the city gates to the Moorish intruders. ( Roth, Norman (1994), Jews, Visigoths and Muslims in medieval Spain : cooperation and conflict)

>>9618070
>>9618169
>>9618344
>>9618425

>all of this emotion instead of arguments

>>9618086
>"none of that is legitimate"
>provides no argument

>everyone who agrees with you is stupid
>Jared Taylor
>William Pierce
>Bobby Fischer

All are/were geniuses that hold similar views. Sorry you got emotional about it and couldn't produce an argument.

Also,
>you can't understand logic

That's why I have a PhD in computational complexity and number theory, eh?

>>9619268
>>9619268
>high iq people vs low iq critters
Nope.

>>9619268
>Jared Taylor
>William Pierce
>Bobby Fischer

Don't forget the Physics Nobel Prize William Shockley
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shockley

And also:
Sir Ronald Fisher
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Fisher

Francis Galton
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Galton

Karl Pearson
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Pearson

>>9614273
>People who look different are different
Wow, OP, you come up with that yourself?

>>9619268
You're just an ignorant racist and so is OP.

>>9618024
>Making anime cat girls real
& trap catbois too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0nYB2x7jcU

>>9619543
There will be World peace only when all boys become QT traps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lfOsrQmI9U

>>9614273
>Harvard Genetics Professor: David Reich
>Doctoral Advisor: David B. Goldstein
>Writing Racial Realism article
>On Jew York Times

What are Jews planning this time?

I don't know who is Jewing anymore

>>9619580
Jews can be stellar academics, too. They're obviously not *all* involved in whatever conspiracy people think.

>>9617768
Anon Mussolini MASSACRED fuckton of Ethiopians and Libyans and committed a ton of atrocities in the war. The Italian fascist also hinged on racist rhetoric and propaganda in it's history and engaged in many racist policies against it's colonies.

Only reason why Italians fascism gets a pass is because people don't care about it AND Italians did a great job at covering up and playing the innocent.

>>9619600
>The only reason why Italian fascism gets a pass is because they weren't as concerned with the JQ

FTFY

>>9619600
The United states had "racist policies" from it's founding up until that point and "massacred" a few people as well but it was still fuckin awesome

>>9619551
>>9619543

Why settle for flat when you can just become full dickgirl with a simple injection?

>>9614494
That it's a social construct doesn't mean it's not real. Dialects, accents, culinary styles, and literary genres are all examples of social constructs. Does this mean that they are not real? They are as real as anything else.

>>9614461
>https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/opinion/sunday/genetics-race.html
>With the help of these tools, we are learning that while race may be a social construct, differences in genetic ancestry that happen to correlate to many of today’s racial constructs are real.

So in other words what this faggot is saying throughout the article is that race is real in that it is based on actual genetic differences between populations but he is too much of a pussy to admit it so he keeps calling it a social construct to save face with the SJW's?

And reading the comments is downright cringe inducing. They're so desperate to pretend race isn't real to the point they spout some of the most ignorant drivel. How can someone get this delusional?

>>9619740
Yes. He even throws realists under the bus in the article like Watson. He is a completely intellectually dishonest slime ball like most of them.

>Yes Genetic differences exists
>Yes different groups have different averages and behavior
>No you can't think that through at all and must after saying it then debunk it.

It's okay for us to call people who don't want low IQ horrible genetics immigrants as idiotic bigots.

It's okay for us to rig the science to hide these facts.

It's okay for us to use all of this in political ideology and for social manipulation and to then label people talking more truthfully as evil.

>>9619679
The Italian form of Fasicsm was complete joke and extremely inefficient.

>>9619725
Race is only as real as you or your society wants it to be as well as it being pushed onto other societies.

>>9619774
>Race is only as real as you or your society wants it to be

How do people honestly think like this? Do you believe that two Asian people could produce a black child? Or that they wouldn't notice that somebody had an afro instead of straight hair?

>>9619268

You have a staggeringly low IQ. Cherry picked articles like this aren't evidence of anything other than "Jews who support immigrants and refugees exist." This is already a foregone conclusion and doesn't need evidence, since a certain percentage of every single population is passionate about helping refugees. These collages you rats spam prove nothing apart from your own stupidity. Somehow in the process of cutting the articles together in between hot pockets, never once did the thought experiment of "Wait a second, I could make one of these for any demographic on the planet" occur to you.

>Jared Taylor
>William Pierce
>Bobby Fischer

Outliers aren't arguments. Even in listing a few outliers, you ran out of names and had to list a deranged paranoid schizophrenic savant totally dissociated from reality. Statistics are what matters, and statistically neo-nazis have chimpanzee intelligence. Your entire movement is comprised of people who can't tie their own shoes.

>That's why I have a PhD in computational complexity and number theory, eh?
Which, if true, is only more evidence toward the fact that academic ""achievements"" have a non-existent intelligence requirement. You are vermin.

>>9619789
>Do you believe that two Asian people could produce a black child?

Don't stuff works into my mount, my child.

>>9619796
Holy shit BTFO

>>9614539
your head is so far up your own ass that you can't even see the irony of your argument

>>9619796
>Outliers aren't arguments. Even in listing a few outliers, you ran out of names and had to list a deranged paranoid schizophrenic savant totally dissociated from reality.

See:>>9619288

>>9617750
your homework for today is to read about logical fallacies and then tell the class which one you used in this post

Harvard agrees race realism is legit. Just stop arguing you fucking retards. It's real, he explains in the article why.

>>9619934
How about the fallacy of posting a big wall of unsourced text full of asinine political rantings?

>>9619808
Facts are dangerous things according to liberals.

>tfw remember telling some faggot here on /sci/ that race is real and this is clear through genetic differences in population
>he called me retarded and said there was no proof

/sci/ BTFO
How will these pseudo intellectuals ever recover? Even this sack of shit has been forced to admit that genetic differences exist but yet he remains delusional enough to pretend race is not real. The doublethink throughout that article is astounding.

I also don't get why people, mainly progressives, get so offended by this. Like why? Its kinda retarded to get offended by and to deny the obvious. The way they try to deny race comes across as demeaning.

>>9620107
It feels good that Harvard has our back now.

>dumb anonymous posters argue we are wrong.

Well, look the tenured geneticist at Harvard backs us up pretty strongly.

>>9620126
>It feels good that Harvard has our back now.
>our

Well if you're just talking about race then sure. But I'm not /pol/. In fact I despise /pol/ and their psuedo intellectual crap and the last thing I want is to be associated with those people. I also just dislike scientist types who deny race because "it'll hurt others feelings". Fuck those people too.

>>9620147
But what's your actual argument? If I say that the US would be a better place without brown skins would you disagree? If not I guess you're "/pol/".

>>9620154
Well what you said is retarded so of course I disagree.

But if the argument is are white and black people different races then yes I agree.

>>9620161
So no counter argument? Just "you're retarded"? Show me your IQ level is higher than that, my friend.

>>9620169
The fact you belive in IQ test, a psuedo science, does in fact go to show you're retarded. Plus you didn't state an argument you just asked a question.

If you want to argue then argue with actual science. Genetic differences as well as physical differences can be used to identify differences in races, and that is what I'm simply supporting. An acknowledgment in race. Nothing more.

>>9620019
>Facts are used to tell lies
That's a new one

>>9620183
Huh? Regardless of your IQ stance, it has been shown to be a good predictor of success and a good predictor of propensity towards crime.

But that's irrelevant to what I said. And you didn't answer the question. And you didn't give a counterargument. My argument is obviously that the US would be a better place without brown skins, I thought this was implied. Why do you disagree with this claim? My criteria is based on crime levels, happiness levels, job availability, productivity, etc.

>>9619796
>cherry-picked

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965

"[His] paternal grandparents and maternal grandmother were Jewish." This is in reference to the person who proposed the bill. We note that "immigrants entering the United States under the new legislation came increasingly from countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America, as opposed to Europe."

https://www.history.com/topics/us-immigration-since-1965

>deranged paranoid shizophrenic savant

Yet he was much more intelligent than you'll ever be.

>Statistics are what matters
Great. I'll be waiting for you to produce evidence that Jews are, statistically, NOT in favor of refugees and pro-immigration.

Our best polling data indicates the vast majority are pro-immigration.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/american-jews-voted-70-25-in-favor-of-clinton-over-trump-poll-shows/

>Your entire movement is comprised of people who can't tie their own shoes.

You know, for someone who was harping on 'understanding logic,' this is rather ironic. The logical negation of what you're saying is to provide a counter-example, which some other Anon and I have provided.

>academic ""achievement"" have a non-existent intelligence requirement

Let's see you publish novel research in the field of mathematics.

>You are vermin.

You are emotional, and your 'arguments' reflect this. Stay mad.

>tfw no one will realize how influential Hsu is

>>9620229
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965

>Passed the House on August 25, 1965 (318–95)
>Passed the Senate on September 22, 1965 (76–18) with amendment
>House agreed to Senate amendment on September 30, 1965 (320–70)
>Signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson on October 3, 1965

House, Senate, and Presidency being all but entirely comprised of hundreds of white Christian males in 1965. In other words, you are cherry picking so badly there's no chance your brain works properly. Not even going to bother reading the rest of your post after this hilarious display of stupidity.

>>9620147

To be fair, observing that race exists doesn't implying doing anything.

Race exists... and?

>>9620275

"In the end, Feighan agreed to support the reform proposal, but he insisted on a key change. Rather than giving preference to those immigrants whose skills were "especially advantageous" to the United States, Feighan insisted on prioritizing those immigrants who already had relatives in the United States, with a new preference category for adult brothers and sisters of naturalized U.S. citizens.

In justifying the change, Feighan told his conservative allies that a family unification preference would favor those nationalities already represented in the U.S. population, meaning Europeans. Among the conservative groups persuaded by Feighan's argument was the American Legion, which came out in support of the immigration reform after originally opposing it.

In an article praising Feighan's legislative prowess, two Legion representatives said he had "devised a naturally operating national-origin system." A family unification preference, they argued, would preserve America's European character."

https://www.npr.org/2015/10/03/445339838/the-unintended-consequences-of-the-1965-immigration-act

The bill was sold to other members of the government as a Bill that WOULD NOT significantly impact the demographics of the US. It was sold as a bill that would attract a few, 'advantageous' workers every year. Corruption happens via deception.

For someone who keeps mentioning intelligence and logic, you seem to be lacking in both of those areas. Personal projection, perhaps?

>>9620275
>>9619796
>>9618086

>being this mad

>>9620288
No matter how hard you're proven wrong, you'll do mental backflips to maintain some delusional feeling of being right. Impressive. Tell me more about how a bill passed by hundreds of people, 99.9% of whom were white Christians including the President, was duh juuuz.

>>9620297
Here's a question: if you told everyone who supported the bill that it would result in a white minority within 70 years, would they still support the bill?

>>9620297
I can understand why you would pretend that this is the case; you are projecting your feelings onto me. You are the one who has been proven wrong and is currently doing all sorts of mental gymnastics to delay the cognitive dissonance.

A.Jews are prone to leftism and neurotic anti-white. So I can see were the mistrust comes from. I mean, this article is a Jew getting angry at white goyim for talking about this topic in the first place.

>>9620307
>>9620319
not him but you can't seriously argue that a politician has perfect foresight 70 years into the future. eg the 2007 financial crisis roots can be tracked in the deregulation starting in the '60 and really kicking in with the '80.
using your criteria every politician that pushed for deregulation is a traitor

>>9620204
Nice bait, I'll reply for the lulz

Different IQ test can give vastly different results so even in that regard they are not accurate. Likewise someone with a low IQ can be successful while someone with a high IQ can be an utter failure. Just look at some of the people in this board.

There's a fallacy in your comment that is downright retarded. It's so stupid its not worth replying but hey why not, I'll have fun with it. First come up with an actual argument. You falsely claim that every person who is browned skinned is criminal.

White rednecks are methheads/crackheads with a high predisposition to crime, so why aren't you advocating for the removal of these white folks? Republican states are more likely to be white, poor, uneducated, and considering their voting habits by constantly voting for the people that screw them over, they're incredibly stupid.

Wouldn't the nation be better off without these bunch of low IQ inbred's? Why don't we get rid of white red necks? Or better yet white republicans. How can you disagree with this?

This has nothing to do with your poltard conspiracies and everything to do with the fact that chink scientists are about 5 years away from having the technology to select embryos for traits like intelligence, height, creativity, and obedience, and the cucked western scientific community is trying to get people to wake up to the fact that not everything about human behaviour or intelligence is as a result of the environment or is a social construct and that genetic determinism plays a more important role in many human behaviors and cognitive abilities than the lefties that control the narrative would have you to believe.

Pretty much this>>9618334

Eugenics is making a comeback whether the SJWs and the social constructionist like it or not. Chinks will force our hand.

>>9614525
Lead poisoning might explain a lot of that, assuming your stat is for the US.
https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-exposure-gasoline-crime-increase-children-health/
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/02/an-updated-lead-crime-roundup-for-2018/

>>9620559
>Wouldn't the nation be better off without these bunch of low IQ inbred's? Why don't we get rid of white red necks?

Not the guy you are discussing, but the nation would be better without niggers and rednecks.

>>9620559
>>9620615

>>9620680
So, what does that have to do with what I said? I'm a little confused here. I said "might explain a lot of that". It's very unclear whether your study attempted to control for amount of lead exposure. My guess is that it did not. Therefore, I am extremely doubtful about the conclusions of your study.

>>9614492
jews always play both sides

>>9620685
Chinese children on average are probably exposed to higher levels of heavy metals. Why they are not violent and dumb like african americans?

>>9620704
>Chinese children on average are probably exposed to higher levels of heavy metals.
Citations please.

You grossly underestimate just how severe leaded gasoline was, and how big of an effect it had on violent crime rates worldwide.

>>9620706
Also lead in paint, which still exists in low-income neighborhoods.

But lead is just the first step in a staircase of fuckery.

>>9620723
Leaded paint indeed. However, lead is a /huge/ piece of the violent crime puzzle. Until you see the evidence, you wouldn't believe how big it is. Check the Mother Jones links above, please.

>>9620729
I know it's huge deal, but it's still the first step. These lead-poisoned black folk are treated worse in school, preyed upon by financial corporations, and turned down for jobs, all at a higher rate than similarly situated white folk.

>>9614616
What a grossly anti-intellectual statement.

The universe does not care about how human beings feel about things. Things are what they are, and we observe them. Some observations are uncomfortable for those whose moral compass is determined by society.

>>9615353
Dawkins should have stopped before he became the embarassment that he is today. I read The God Delusion before reading The Selfish Gene and it's obvious that his ability to write and think has deteriorated heavily.

>>9620742
>>9620729

This level of delusion.

>>9620826
It's not delusion. It's based on hard evidence.

>>9620742
can you stop using the word 'folk' over and over fuckin weirdo

>>9620552
I agree, but I do believe this particular bill was a clandestine Jewish effort. It's also in line with the Kalergi plan and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Most mainstream sites on those two plans will harp about how it's a forgery, or whatever, but the weird part is that they are coming true and Jews are at the forefront of its fruition, so take that for what it's worth.

>>9617597
>>9617599
>>9617629

>>9614492
He's probably coming at it from a purely academic perspective. This would not necessarily negate the possibility of other Jews colluding within media and government, however.

>>9614273
I dont get it. Reich says in the NYtimes article that races DONT exist...
did you even read it anon?

>>9620685
Do you honestly think blacks raised by millionaires are exposed to led and whites aren't? The study shows that blacks raised by the Top 1% are as likely to go to prison as whites raised in households with 36k income. Let that sink in. Blacks who live in Beverly Hills are as likely to commit felonies as whites who live in trailers parks.

>>9621478
How can anyone think lead exposure explains this?

>>9621478
Slow your fucking roll. The graph you posted says nothing of prison or felonies. It's like you shift the goalposts with every sentence you speak.

>>9621478
I believe that you're repeating misleading stats. The /average/ income of the top 1% is like 1.1 million or something (per year). However, the 1% /percentile/ is closer to like 200k or 300k income (per year).

Yes, I think that there's probably a good chance that many of the black people in your study still lived in inner cities, where the fallout from leaded gasoline would be substantially higher.

For reference, the crime rates of cities used to be much higher than rural areas. Today, they're about the same. This is very probably because the lead levels in children blood in inner cities is substantially reduced - no longer increased from the leaded gasoline emissions of all of those cars.

>>9621482
Evidence and reason?

MUH LEAD

>>9621497

Shut up. You're the one going pushing the preposterous idea that black failure in the past 1000 years is due to fucking lead. Anything to come up with an explanation that doesn't involve genetics.

>>9621497
>>9621498
Read the study you fucking twit. These are all facts from the same study. Yes, blacks raised in the top 1% of income as likely to be imprisoned than whites raised in homes making 36K, substantially less than the National average. Your lead theory is fucking dumb.

>>9621515
>Your lead theory is fucking dumb.
Why? It seems quite solidly rooted in overwhelming evidence and reason. I still don't grasp what you think is silly about it.

And again, it seems as though your study didn't account for the lead variable, which taints it beyond usefulness.

>>9621258
>Reich says in the NYtimes article that races DONT exist...

Not only are you fucking wrong, but all you have to do is read the "leftist" response to this article to see that even leftists think he's saying race exists. Which it does. Because its real. And only a cult leftists thinks otherwise.

>>9621515
>>9621511
You never posted the study, but luckily I've read it. It concludes the drop-off is almost purely societal. Post it though, please.

>>9621518
Race as a social construct is real, but the races as a biological description of humans is mostly fake. That's the point. For example, consider the 1 drop rule of determining which race you are a member of.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
This is not a serious concept of biology. It's primarily a social construct with little regard about actual genetics.

>>9621519
>It concludes the drop-off is almost purely societal.
Which is why academics are a joke and you can safely ignore their reasoning. Read the data if it is done well. Chetty has access to good data but he is a complete hack. He literally blames racism, with zero evidence or follow up studies, for black kids from millionaire households going to prison more than white kids from trailer parks. He is a hack. No one actually believes his shit but other liberals who would cut off their right hand rather than be seen as racist.

>>9621517
MUH LEAD

>>9621518
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/23/opinion/sunday/genetics-race.html
is that not the article written BY HIM?

This is just more evidence that we should defund the universities. They are just political indoctrinations centers at this point.

>>9621532
Are you a 5 year child throwing a temper tantrum? Do you have a serious point to make regarding the facts about leaded gasoline?

>>9621534
>>9621518
All he says is:
Race is a social construct but there are differences between ethnicities. Which has literally NEVER been a secret or a debated topic.
Everyone has heard of asian flush for example, no one, and i mean no one, disputes the fact that there are genetic differences between groups.
HOWEVER as Reich says, these differences are not big enough to divide humans into races other than socially constructed ones

>>9620559
>Why don't we get rid of white red necks? Or better yet white republicans. How can you disagree with this?

Its so easy to tell a negro wrote this if that anti-white shit is the first thing that comes to your mind. Hey negro, why would I want to get rid of people who are more intelligent then even upper class blacks? I mean, you're so stupid negro, that you failed to notice that most Republican states are poor and uneducated because blacks like you ruin the stats.

Why the fuck would I get rid of white Republicans when the majority of whites in the US are republicans? White Democrats I'll gladly get rid off at this stage, but why would I get rid of hardworking ethnocentric whites? Motherfucking California used to be a Republican state before the Reagan disaster that was amnesty was implemented
Nah, I'll rather get rid of black people from not only the US but from every non-African continent, you are a primitive archaic people that are not only less intelligent, but violent and narcissistic. You're a cancer to white societies. Only your race is dumb enough to drive whites out of farmland and then proceed to starve to death.

>>9621532
You absolutely know the truth you fucking scumbag. And that's why you won't post the damned study.

The chart you posted is only the portion that analyzed black men. The whole study is necessary to give context, as the racial divide disappeared when they did it for black women.

So fuck you.

>>9621519
>It concludes the drop-off is almost purely societal.
This is a lie. The study does not look at societal factors. It can't. It is a data mining study that can't look at causes. Calling that a conclusion means you don't understand basic methodology.

>>9621532
Consider this: We know from several reliable lines of evidence that blacks use drugs at about the same rate as whites. Yet, we arrest proportionately many more blacks than whites for drug offenses. Repeat for several of the other well-known stats. Hmm... maybe there is a huge element of racism in our society.

Don't forget the standard word association tests that show that we all have racist tendencies.

>>9621537
Some things are meant to be mocked. The "MUH LEAD" argument is grasping at straws.

>>9621554
Wrong. Read the study.

>>9621561
Why should it be mocked when the evidence is really quite strong? I take it that you're not familiar with the evidence. Not all US States banned leaded gasoline at the same time. There's a strong correlation between when the US States banned leaded gasoline, and about 21 years later when violent crime rates start to drop. You see the same correlation in every country in the world too as they banned leaded gasoline. You can even do lead-level breakdowns at the city block level, and compare it to crime charts at the city block level, and see that they're the same.

This is the untold story of violent crime of the 20th century.

Obviously there is led poisoning in Bel Air but only the blacks are affected because racism. Fucking /pol get out. You have been BTFO!

>>9621528
Okay, so you're the same retarded race denying negro from earlier in the thread, but now you decided to adopt a tripcode.

This image is dedicated to you.

Honestly, reading the post made by blacks ITT regarding this subject is legitimately making me hate them. They truly are different from other humans, if even the negros who somehow find their way here still act like this. Its like this race has a disgusting narcissism that drives their behavior. I mean, what other race flats out steals the cultural achievements of others (WE WUZ KANGZ) and invent retarded myths like Yakub?

>>9621566
>>9621555
Does this control for race? Maybe the causation is the other way around.

This is a map of "lead" poisoning. If you overlay a crime map, block by block, you will see that "lead" predicts crime.

>>9621569
I missed my trip for one post here, but otherwise there's another person here arguing with you.

Also, nice projection there. Have you seem the Republican party today? They're completely batshit conspiracy theorist paranoid motherfuckers.

>>9621571
How could race explain the great correlation in time for US States, all the countries in the world, and even the same correlation at the level of city-blocks for all studied cities? Crime rates went up, and moreso in cities, when leaded gasoline was introduced, and after leaded gasoline was banned, then crime rates dropped back down to what we might call "normal".

>>9621534
Learn to read the entire article you race denying fuckwad, he spends the entire article admitting that race is biological, that little quote you just posted is irrevelant because a) Lewontin claim that human populations are similar to each other is true. Its also irrelevant to the biological construct of race, because dog populations are also remarkable similar to eachother.

b) Race being a social construct is meaningless because every single biological taxanomic classification is a social construct attempting to pin down a biological phenomena. Race being a social construct doesn't change the fact that race is also a biological phenomena. This is what you race deniers don't get. There is less evidence for "species' being real then there is for "race"

Every single person who denies race is a cultist and this attitude needs to be stamped out. These people don't just deny race, they deny genes too.

>>9621587
>This is what you race deniers don't get. There is less evidence for "species' being real then there is for "race"
Lol

Oh wait, you're serious? Let me laugh harder.

>>9621587
Read this idiot
>>9621545
Reich says over the entire fucking article that race isnt real but there are biological differences. Repeat after me: "Reich says throughout the entire article that race is not real"
No one on earth denies there are biological differences. But that they would be big enough to justify grouping people into races is an idea thats rejected by Reich and every other geneticist, idiot

>>9621595
>Reich says over the entire fucking article that race isnt real but there are biological differences.

Yeah, and those biological differences correlate with gene clusters and self-identified race. Using this definition, race becomes a valid biological classification because race is informative. Using race gives you context to data that you wouldn't have had without it.

>No one on earth denies there are biological differences.

Except you and every leftists in the world that believes in environmental determinism. Because you're unironically trying to deny race in front of my face even when the article is flat out admiring it even though Reich is still bending over for leftists so they don't attack him too harshly. You unironically try to deny biological differences in cognitive and behavioral differences, you deny IQ, and you have the nerve to pretend you don't deny biological differences between humans when you act like one way to group these biological differences is false (race) and you believe races have the same IQ? Eat shit leftists.

>But that they would be big enough to justify grouping people into races is an idea thats rejected by Reich and every other geneticist, idiot

If you actually understood the science that your leftists negro loving shit for brain was talking about, you would know that there is enough biological differences between sub-races to justify categorizing Europeans into different groups, and population geneticist do it regularly. Trust me, there is enough justification for human races. You just deny race because you're afraid of the implications. Thats it. Thats all. Thankfully, the era of race denial is going to come to an end.

>What makes Dr. Watson’s and Mr. Wade’s statements so insidious is that they start with the accurate observation that many academics are implausibly denying the possibility of average genetic differences among human populations, and then end with a claim — backed by no evidence — that they know what those differences are and that they correspond to racist stereotypes. They use the reluctance of the academic community to openly discuss these fraught issues to provide rhetorical cover for hateful ideas and old racist canards.
>This is why knowledgeable scientists must speak out. If we abstain [...] we leave a vacuum that gets filled by pseudoscience, an outcome that is far worse than anything we could achieve by talking openly.

>If scientists can be confident of anything, it is that whatever we currently believe about the genetic nature of differences among populations is most likely wrong. For example, my laboratory discovered in 2016, based on our sequencing of ancient human genomes, that “whites” are not derived from a population that existed from time immemorial, as some people believe. Instead, “whites” represent a mixture of four ancient populations that lived 10,000 years ago and were each as different from one another as Europeans and East Asians are today.

>How do we accommodate the biological differences between men and women? I think the answer is obvious: We should both recognize that genetic differences between males and females exist and we should accord each sex the same freedoms and opportunities regardless of those differences.
>It is clear from the inequities that persist between women and men in our society that fulfilling these aspirations in practice is a challenge. Yet conceptually it is straightforward. And if this is the case with men and women, then it is surely the case with whatever differences we may find among human populations, the great majority of which will be far less profound.

>>9621588
>Oh wait, you're serious? Let me laugh harder.

Yes, you stupid negro. There is no evidence for the existence of species. Go ahead, find me evidence that it exists. "Species" doesn't exist, its just a word that humans created to conveniently classify organisms. Race has more evidence, self-identified race correlates with gene clusters.

Were's the evidence for species? Find one, because biologists really want to know. Because the lack of evidence for species causes a big problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species_problem

>>9621629
Steve Sailer did a good job summing up that quote.

>>9621623
>implying pc culture is going to slow down and revert back to "normal"

Besides its clear from reading 2 of your comments that you are a massive racist and possible troll, considering how you hate "negros" and "lefties".

Get your head out of your ass, stop reading fake news, stop buying the polarization by media and get some perspective, idiot

>>9621637
Real expert opinion you got there

>>9621580
>How could race explain the great correlation in time for US States, all the countries in the world, and even the same correlation at the level of city-blocks for all studied cities? Crime rates went up, and moreso in cities, when leaded gasoline was introduced, and after leaded gasoline was banned, then crime rates dropped back down to what we might call "normal".
The correlation with just blacks is a lot higher. That is why I made this joke >>9621578

>>9621653
Sailer is a lot smarter than Chetty.

Chetty filled his study and media interviews with tons of issues outside of its purview. He does not even follow basic 8th grade science methodology and tries to pass of things that don't count as hypotheses as conclusions. He is a hack. Use his data though.

>>9621680
How about the opinion of Reich?

>>9621704
Reich is desperately trying to be a good person but he is still feeding the wrong narrative that racial differences don't cause substantial cognitive and behavioral differences. As many have said, the asian countries, especially China and Japan, have no racial taboos, and they are not going to play along. If anything, they are going to push designer babies, and they won't shy away from publishing genetic racial profiles.

>>9621720
>>9621704
Liberal do-gooders like Reich are doing a lot more harm than good. There is going to be massive blowback from the public and especially the youth for two reasons. First, for being fed bullshit for decades. Second, SJWs are not going to stop pushing their agenda, so you will have the Democrats be the party of anti-science.

>>9621735
Yeah, well science will be right regardless.

Great podcast on race and IQ:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1lEPQYQk8s

>>9621548
>implying I'm black
kek, looks like my comment triggered the poor redneck. Did my comment hit deep? Did you identify with the people I mentioned? Of course you did look at your butthurt.

Those ""intelligent"" white people you mention where stupid enough to get tricked by a conman into voting for him, live in some of the poorest states, and live in squalor as drugs are a huge problem in rural areas. You can point at black people all you want but rednecks can get just as bad if not worse. Nobody likes crackheads. Sorry to break it to you Cletus but know you're not too far off from those blacks you insult.

If you want to get rid of blacks then surely you must get rid of you and your own.

If you haven't noticed the point, which you haven't because you're a low IQ /pol/tard, then you can't judge an entire group over the worst. Are black people more likely to commit violent crime? Yes, but rural white retards are likely to fuck their own sisters so not like you have anything to brag Cletus. There are black people who are useful to society, just like there are rednecks that are useful. If you want to attack a whole group over the worst then know you only look like a retard. Which you are desu

>>9621631
No no, you don't get to change the funny claim. The funny claim was that there is more evidence for races than for species. That's a hoot. I'm going to remember that for quite a while. Thanks for the good comedy story!

>>9621663
Blacks do not and cannot explain both the rise of violent crime in the mid 20th century and the fall several decades later, in almost every nation on the planet. So, yea.