/sci/ - Science & Math

Yes ffs, do mathematicians really think god commanded Euclid's postulates? Though I don't agree with the exactly part. A posteriori idealizations are perfectly fine.

>>9612033
>Was he right?
It seems reasonable, mathematics always relies on abstraction.

>>9612033
math came into being because of accounting, which exists in nature.
ideal geometry is basically just an offshoot of finance.

>>9612853
數學走進因為會計,它存在於自然界的存在。
理想的幾何形狀基本上是財政的一個分支。

I confirm. Humans have the ability to turn almost 'anything' into a language of communication, even inference between multiple languages. Eventually if one human learns something and does not hide, at least one other human will learn in turn. Problem!>Problem(plural(Un))//我確認。 人類必須把幾乎“什麼'變成溝通的語言,甚至是多語言之間推理的能力。 最後,如果一個人學習的東西,絲毫不掩飾,至少一個其他人將學到反過來。課題!>的問題(多(UN))

No. Apparently this asshole never read Plato.

>>9612887
提奧奇尼斯----第歐根尼碗空*爆炸頭*

>>9612887
he probably read more plato than anyone who has ever posted on 4chan

>>9612941
You obviously haven't read Plato or you would have understood why I said that.

>>9612942
you obviously don't understand nietzsche

no he is wrong

Nietzche was too focused on the big picture, as many philosophers are.
They only care bout world view.
They have little to know skill in micro.
Its all just data to be summarized into some macro.
Nietzsche was a shut in and never left his country.
If he had travelled to see certain rock formations, crystalls etc...
He would have made sure to edit that line out of the gay science.
Or tried to burn every copy he could get a hold of.

>>9612981
>Nietzsche was a shut in and never left his country.
holy shit and you say other people have microknowledge

and crystals STILL don't have straight lines! Go down far enough and everything turns into fuzzy fields of forces, atoms vibrating, electrons popping in and out of existence, and so on and so on.

>>9612862
>>9612892
What the fuck is this thing supposed to be?

>>9612988
im sure theres some level/segment of these things that are indeed straight lines, or straight portions of lines.

>>9612033
No.
Math evolved from practical applications for dividing land, counting cattle and collecting taxes.

>>9612992
一項民意幾度從內省的分離

No. Theories are *approximations* of reality.

>>9612862
>>9612892
>>9613004
Gooks back to >>>/n/uke

>>9612995
There can't even be a mathematical line in reality, because you need a point, and there are no points in reality either, atoms have a fuzzy volume. You have to place the point, and you're then dealing in abstractions. And don't they tell us even space is curved, so even our mathematical line between two imaginary points would be imperceptibly bent and crooked?

>>9612853
The basis of all math and all abstraction is the concept of equivalence. Remove equivalence, and all of math will crumble to dust.

But equivalence doesn't exist in nature - there are no two completely equal dollar bills, human beings, even molecules, atoms and any other subparticles - they all exist in a different time and place. The basis of equivalence is turning a blind eye to the differences and only take some properties of an object in account.

So, without imprecision of the human perception, there is no equivalence, and thus no mathematics.

You don't need abstract geometric constructs for science when the abstract stochastic constructs we developed works just as well.

>>9612033
Considering that mathematics is not based in or in tandem with reality but instead can be utilized to describe reality, he's entirely wrong. Nietzsche and most philosophers were idiots.

>>9613013
>But equivalence doesn't exist in nature
What about Boson particles mathfag?

>>9613024
>Boson particles
Explain to me how two Boson particles can be one and the same.

>>9613023
He said come into existence, not be used.

>>9613028
They can occupy the same quantum state space, thus have precisely equivalent properties.

>>9613034
What makes them stop having precisely equivalent properties?

>>9613034
Then how do you know there are two of them and not one? I never studied physics so I'm asking out of curiosity.

>>9613038
Quantum field interactions.
>>9613039
Energy measurements.

>>9613044
Then they are not the one and the same. If they were one and the same, they would have the same quantum field interactions and energy measurements. They are clearly different particles.

>>9613038

check

>>9613066
mate

>>9613066
>they would have the same quantum field interactions
They do. It is perfectly indistinguisable which particle interacts.
> and energy measurements.
They do. Nigger do you know what quantum state means?

>>9613074
Motherfucker we aren't done yet.

SWEET SWEET PORCO DIO TATATATATA
HOMMY ALLYBAMMY LALALA
SWEET SWEET PORCODIO

>>9612887
platonic forms are a philosophically incoherent concept

>>9612033
idiot, clearly early mathematicians knew that circles were only approximated in nature

>there are people today who still read philosophy
Why? Do you gain anything worthwhile from it? I haven't.

>>9613164
Yes, it helps me to show those fuks at /lit/ why they're fucking retarded.

>>9613164
Yeah, anyone else really fr**king love science? It's epic for the win!

>>9612033
>Nietzsche

>>9612033
Nah, might have been less influence by retarded memes though. It was necessarily to run countries even 2 thousand years ago, it has only become more pertinent.

>>9613165
This, basically. I initially thought it was worth pursuing but I've realised it's almost all hollow trash. People throw it around though, as though it means something, so it's best to be familiar with to an extent.

>>9613413
>This, basically. I initially thought it was worth pursuing but I've realised it's almost all hollow trash. People throw it around though, as though it means something, so it's best to be familiar with to an extent.
Literally the only thing I got out of philosophy is knowing the names and ideas of people that pseudointellectuals often discuss. I didn't gain any real insight to myself or the world around me. In fact, science and math textbooks have been more transformative in my life.

I can't tell if this conversation is beneath me or above me

all significant activity in the universe takes place in a discrete fashion, not a vague one

and to suggest that numbers, the invention of the intellect, itself a singular and discrete reality, is somehow secondary to the degrees which exist in reality is harmful humility, it's better to observe the universe as a subset of the mind, rather than a container for it, because that's the way it ultimately works on a functional level

ie mathematics is more real than reality, it could never have been concealed

>>9612033
>what is calculus of variations
Nietzsche was a brainlet

>>9613445
>it's better to observe the universe as a subset of the mind, rather than a container for it
I disagree, it's better to realize that both are true, we can only observe and analyze the universe by having it as a subset of our minds, but at the same time our minds exist inside the universe.

>>9613445
>I can't tell if this conversation is beneath me or above me
>all significant activity in the universe takes place in a discrete fashion, not a vague one
Significantly above you.

This thread goes a long way towards proving /sci/ is full of teenage pseudo-intellectuals.

>>9613479
>hurr durr nietzsche is the coolest
>i learn science from people who have never studied it
>i trust brainlets to tell me how the universe works and how to live my life
>amor fati!

>>9613445
>all significant activity in the universe takes place in a discrete fashion, not a vague one
The conversation is above you. So far above you we're talking relativistic scale domains.

>>9612033
>>9613479

I have nothing against science-based Analytical Philosophy, but Continental Philosophy is worse than New Age mysticism. Back to /x/.

>>9613530
This.

>>9613530
>>9613535
samefaggin

>>9613604
>>9612033
Samefag.

>>9613530
I wouldn't say that considering Kant is a continental philosopher

>>9613986
Kant made a synthesis of the worst aspects of Brittish Empiricism and the worst aspects of the continental speculative metaphysics tradition of his time. His subjetivist doctrine influenced many openly anti-science ideologies like existentialism and phenomenology.

>>9614013
>le i fucking love science cultist post
>>>/trash/

>>9614019
Do mistake serious scientism (defended by many philosophers of science and epistemologists) with leftist SJW obscurantist ideologies.

The "i fucking love science" cult opposes scientism and the naturalist approach to the social sciences. They would also oppose all contemporary naturalist philosophy, if they knew it.

>>9614045
*do not

>>9613100
You bore me. It wouldn't matter if they were. People would just have to believe in them for the quote to be incorrect, which we know they did and do.

Yay! Sharding discord!

>>9612887
Philology professor in Basel at age 24
>never read Plato
kek

>>9613530
>Philosophy
>based on science
>ever
Retard

>>9616835
You are in the wrong board. You find more people thinking like you on /x/.

>>9613013
equivalence (modularity) occurs all throughout nature. other intelligent animals regard objects as discrete, some can even count. basic biological processes like RNA translation and sexual reproduction rely on modularity at many levels. there is ample evidence that equivalence is a real phenomenon.