/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9573288
They're not stigmatized at all. In fact, in my country you're almost looked down upon if you're not in either engineering or medicine. Humanities is the field that's stigmatized, def not STEM

>>9573288
he has a point that school should teach you to deal with more practical problems as well, other than that no one cares what amerimutts tell other amerimutts to do

>>9573295

>>9573295
You sure got me, anon.

>>9573297
It really shouldn't though
There's no practical problem schools need to teach

>>9573325
wrong

>>9573327
Refute it

These subjects are definitely important for kids to learn, but it's also true that many kids leave high school woefully unprepared for life

>>9573335
Speaks more about the shittiness of parents to be fair

>>9573334
he did it for me >>9573335

>>9573297
on school we should learn how to hunt americucks and their negroids like animals.

>>9573337
You haven't said anything specific . There's nothing that needs to be taught to kids. If anything we need to teach more math so they can grow up to not be idiots that go "math is child abuse!!!"

school is good if you wanna actually do something with your knowledge

>>9573288
>Is STEM seriously that hard to understand?
Consider the normal distribution of intelligence. Further consider that the average IQ of engineers lies in the 115-125 range, and that only 15% of the population qualify at the bottom end of said average. The conclusion you should be able to draw is this: the masses lack the mental capacity to understand the mathematics and physics involved in mathematics and the natural sciences. It is due to this lack of understanding that average joe grows disinterested in STEM-fields.

>So my question is /sci/, why are STEM fields so stigmatized in society for being inapplicable and boring when they are literally the foundation for modern society as we know it?
They ARE inapplicable and boring to the vast majority of people.

>>9573346
>You haven't said anything specific .
what the video

>>9573349
No. How about you think for yourself ? Tell me what YOU think.

>>9573351
examples mentioned in the video

>>9573353

See? This is why schools should be more rigorous academically and not focus on dumb shit like "practical skills"(news: the things you learned were practical ) .

Take this anon, he is completely unable to articulate any kind of opinion himself and must redirect to others .

Sad.

>>9573357
>>>/r/eddit/

The purpose of schooling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeEWPbTad_Q

Why do we live in an age of such anti intellectualism where being uneducated is cool?

>>9573295
similar situation here except the hierarchy goes IT>other STEM stuff>medicine>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>shit>>>>>>>humanities

>>9573288
>tfw everyone shits on the Pythagorean theorem
>hurr why do I need to know the hypertanus
>tfw most teachers fail to even try to get across that it's the basic formula for distance in general

>>9573374
This

>>9573374
>watch movie or tv show
>scientist is portrayed as smart, awkward, nervous guy
>scientists tries to explain something to main character
>”In english please!”
I like to think the media is behind this

>>9573374
>>9573433
>>9573448
yes it's the jews
now >>>/pol/

>>9573418
impossible.

You STEMfags own the technology sector and you STILL feel persecuted. Fucking queers.

>>9573453
nope, humanities students are perceived as useless fruits and future McDonald's employees by most of the society

>>9573374
this is extremely sad

>>9573452
what the fuck are you projecting?
Yes everyone is equal and the world is awesome, now >>>/leftypol/

>>9573486
you know what I'm taking about.

I mean it's impossible that M.Ds are perceived inferior to the others and I.T (computer science?) as the best. Where do you live? I'm 100% positive you are delusional

>>9573297
The actual problem is that the complete system doesn't work. Yeah it's cool to have math in high school if you like it and you are going to go to college and do engineering or something, but it's not the case for everybody.

It needs to be more personalized. Every sane person hates school as it is now.

>>9573288
>Why are STEM fields so stigmatized in society?
Humanityfags are much more stigmatized than STEMfags.

>>9573452
>nobody mentions Jews
>He spergs out and blames the jews and says go back to /pol/

Do you realize that you are projecting kinda hard here?

>>9573297
You sure seem to be obsessed for someone who claims not to care.

>>9573427
Yup as I get older i'm amazed at how practical this knowledge is, it was even used to formulate the theory of general relativity.
Honestly as I get older I realize that people are too lazy.dumb to better their selves. After highschool I took 6 months off and in that time I taught myself electronics, economics, and another language, ahora puedo hablo espanol. My only gripe about college is just the amount of time classes take up from my own studying. There should really come a point in everyone's life where they should realize that others aren't obliged to spoon feed you information

>Do you ever wonder why there have been no significant physical discoveries since Einstein? Is STEM seriously that hard to understand?

It's because Einstein led us down a path full of ghosts that don't exist. Time travel, black holes and multiple dimensions..none of it can be proven. The last great inventor/scientist was Tesla, and he was an opponent of relativity.

>>9573448
It's not really like that. Movies like The Martian or Interestellar were pretty popular (and capeshit like Iron Man and Spiderman were you see them working or doing nerd things as a cool thing), and even here in sci you guys are always complaining about people how think they are cool for doing or liking science.

>>9573517
>relativity denier
t. brainlet
>m-muh Tesla denied relativity too
Tesla believed in a bunch of hocus-pokus; aside from his contributions to the development of electrical infrastructure in the US, his exploits weren´t particularly intellectually rigorous.
>Time travel, black holes and multiple dimensions..none of it can be proven.
Time travel doesn´t require anything more than relativistic physics. Multiverse theories, on the other hand, are not quite as grounded in observed spacetime.

/sci has gone to shit.
watch this :


faggot.

>>9573495
due to the current political climate and retarded policies concerning medical internships, medbros are considered whiny entitled sissies for wanting to make a comfortable living wage on a compulsory internship in public clinics/hospitals with extremely limited slots and not being overworked to shit because of staff shortages

>>9573517
didn't Tesla believe in the aether?

>rap
oh i miss the times where the city intellectuals did not have to see such plebs

>>9573537
Indoctrinated cuck. Thinks Einstein is an infallible genius and Tesla was some crazy brainlet.

I see you paid attention in your government sponsored indoctrination center.

>>9573303
>High school is a microcosm of the real world

>>9573288
Dave isn't anti education or anti science, he just thinks the current k-12 curriculum is dumb. Which is true. He has bad ideas on how to fix it, but at least the sentiment is in the right place.

>>9573635
Most people don't emotionally mature past where they were in high school, so yes.

>>9573288
>quadratic equation is "abstract maths"

yikes

>>9573295
Nice to what country is it that i need to move?

>>9573683
probably a third world country with very little actual achievement of note in STEM, social policies like that are done because those pursuits are viewed as ways out of poverty, not because they are academically meritous.

>>9573683
>>9573687
this, I can almost guarantee >>9573295 is from some post-soviet country
t. someone from a post-soviet country

>>9573683
nope, it's belgium.

>>9573694
you're extremely autistic and/or have a poorly formed social circle if you even remotely believe what you wrote
t. belgian

>>9573692
>I can almost guarantee
>because I am from a post Soviet country
Kys brainlet

>>9573497
>It needs to be more personalized.

A teacher for every pupil!
Personal tailored timetables!
It's all about YOU!

How do you plan to fund this 'personalization' of education?

The way school systems are now are just as much a product of social necessity and circumstance where a viable solution to change and meet those radical changes which so many desire just have not been found yet. There are not even enough teachers in this present era to afford decent attention to every single pupil that gets shunted into their class nor are kids nowadays even within a society which pushes behaviours which are conducive to 'education' anyway what with their constant need for instant gratification and need to check 'social media' 24/7 to consider themselves validated and alive.

>>9573864
Well, you took it to the extreme. I didn't mean that. I just said more personalized. Making a kid study math when it's obvious he doesn't like it, doesn't make sense.

>>9573297
>he has a point that school should teach you to deal with more practical problems as well,
That's the trouble with education. By the time things like mathematics start to be applied to real world problems and the abstract concepts you spent 11 years memorizing by rote before the test start to come together, most students have already lost interest. because "what am I ever going to need this for?"

>>9573864
Public schools in the US already spend more per student than parents spend to send their children to private schools. Negro genocide is the only answer.

>>9573288
He's not saying it's not important to learn basic math or science, he's saying that important, day to day info is completely absent from schools in the place of stuff that is worthless to people who don't want to pursue the subject. Schools are notorious for turning kids into test taking machines, rather than thinkers. I don't know about you, but if anything, school damaged my ambition for STEM.

STEM fields are stigmatized? Maybe in 53% land, not anywhere else. There have been no huge discoveries since Einstein because he gave the final push to a long buildup towards breakthrough.

>>9573920
>>9573297

There is a big flaw in this thinking. You won't ever be able to think in a mathematical way if you don't even have the tools. For instance, it is extremely unlikely that someone who doesn't know negative exponential function will be able to interpret some phenomena in the real world and predict its behavior like the said function. Thus one thinks exponential function is useless and so on.

I fully enjoyed most of the subjects in high school, and I recognize that getting the basics in every subject is really useful to anyone in the contemporary world (basic mechanics notions, function modelling, argumentation, ecology). But I really had an issue with chemistry. There's no reason that stuff like atom models, in/organical chemistry, or thermochemistry are going to be useful for anyone outside chemistry.

I learned everything slightly useful from chemistry in middle school.

The school system NEEDS to be personalized or you're gonna end up with people (1) thrown up into career decision and will take stupid decisions (2) filled with useless knowledge they had to study a lot to 'pass' (3) eventually getting demotivated from the subjects they're not interested in and developing 'hate' or 'fear' towards the subject (4) studying 'for the test' and not grasping the important notions of the subject.

Integral education is a meme born out from humanism. Yeah, learning a lot of stuff is important and many people are cool with it. But why force kids to strive with useless subjects that they're not interested in just for the sake of fulfilling a baseless ideology?

>>9574072
That's why there are mathematical courses specially designed for sociologists, biologists, physicists, etc.

>>9574206
>There's no reason that stuff like atom models, in/organical chemistry, or thermochemistry are going to be useful for anyone outside chemistry.
idiot

>>9574206

>There's no reason that stuff like atom models, in/organical chemistry, or thermochemistry are going to be useful for anyone outside chemistry

>>9573288
>there have been no significant physical discoveries since Einstein
This is your brain on popsci

>>9573288
Math & Science in High School is indispensable basic knowledge for those who wanna become a scientist, mathematician, engineer or a medical doctor.

If you wanna work in Mc Donalds or Wall Mart then yes it's useless for you.

And if you think that Nursing don't need Math & Science then please don't complain in future if a Nurse kill your old mom in Hospital due to a mistake in medicine dosage prescription.

>>9574215
>>9574219
Yeah, you people are braindead, or undergrads. Then again, what's the difference?

>>9574249

Tell me how

>that stuff like atom models
>in/organical chemistry

and

>thermochemistry

Have never mattered to anyone outside of pure chem.

Please tell me how.

>>9574206
>There's no reason that stuff like atom models, in/organical chemistry, or thermochemistry are going to be useful for anyone outside chemistry.

The entire pharmaceutical, chemical & pharmaceutical industries are built upon these concepts.

If you don't know very well about these things you aren't qualified even to become a fucking Nutritionist let alone becoming a Veterinarian or Nurse.

And it's unthinkable to a Medical doctor to not know Chemistry.

>>9574246
video related's demographic base are retail workers FYI

In Poo-Land if you do not take science stream in 11th class(Which is Physics,Chemistry,Math)

Society looks down upon you so much that you have to go to the jungle 10 km away to poo instead of the city shitting street where all the kewl kids shit.

Thankfully I was smart and took Science so i get to keep my street shitting privilege

>>9573288
>>9573297
>>9573303
>>9573312
>>9573325
>>9573327
>>9573334
>>9573335
>>9573336
>>9573336
>>9573337
>>9573345
>>9573346
>>9573347
>>9573347
>>9573348
>>9573349
>>9573357
>>9573363
>>9573368
>>9573374
>>9573418
>>9573427
>>9574339
>>9574278
>>9574273
>>9574254
>>9574249
>>9574246
>>9574220
>>9574219


To support OP's argument.

>Work my ass off to get into the best university in my country.
>I'm slow and stupid but put in all the work.
>Learn to love math and science and use it to motivate me.
>Finally get accepted after years of hard work.
>Applied to the most competitive engineering [mech eng]
>get accepted.
>start see more theory.
>say its ok the day will come where in my second year hopefully, i will apply the shit im learning
>3 years have passed and no application in fucking MECH ENG.
>I have lost all motivation and im looking for internships.

>I have come to learn that all the school system is:
>write down the givens
>write down what you need to find
>apply equations and formulas from formula sheet.
>oops too many unknowns for the number of missing variables
>use trig. trick or PV=nRT fill in the blanks >solve for unknown
>repeat this for 4 more years and get a degree.

Honestly the system is fucking retarded
That is not even mentioning the fucking retarded professors teaching us who dont give too shits half ass the class and go back to doing their research.

I never thought i would say that, but with all my heart fuck this fucking retarded educational system.

>>9574626
>american education

>>9574689
canadian

>>9574698
then I'm sorry about that
a proper college education should NEVER be the high school shit "dude just put the formula in lamo"
every single test problem or oral exam should be problematic, in a way that you can't apply the formulas from class and have to think of a way to make it work

>>9574701
some classes do that...
but even then its the same shit.
its just a loop hole that you have to find
grading system is trash.

>>9574626
>most competitive engineering (mech eng)
What country are you from?

>>9574698
I´m willing to bet a lot of money on engineering physics, automation technology, computer science, biotech and a plethora of other subjects requiring higher SAT/ACT (or their equivalent in your country) scores than mech eng.

>>9574719
at my uni
it used to mech eng when i applied
>>9574716
-->>
>>9574698

>>9574626
>undergrad
You have your answer, as an engineer just plug and chug

>>9573288
>Do you ever wonder why there have been no significant physical discoveries since Einstein?
Wait, what? This is actually patently false, if we're talking about physics past 1916 then we have the birth of qm and qft, the founding of qed, qcd, and qfd (which amounts to the discovery of two entirely new forces of nature and revolutionized our understanding of atoms. qed is also the most accurate theory ever conceived). The entire field of condensed matter physics has also blossomed with the discovery of superconductivity, revolutions in the study of phase transitions, topological ordering, etc... Our understanding of cosmology has also rapidly grown since the early 1900's to the point that our knowledge before pails compared to what we know now, certainly qualifying as a "significant physical discovery". In the nano world conjugated polymers (yes this is nanophysics, just cause chemists also study this doesn't make it not in the domain of physics as well), graphene, and other "wonder materials" are also promising to be quite important and have already had some pretty substantial impact. Let's not forget the founding of biophysics and all the applications thereof. Seriously, just look at the list of nobel prizes awarded in physics for the past 100 years, all of them physically significant, and that's not even the totality of all the results that have been found. Just cause some people are stupid doesn't mean physics has stagnated.

>>9574751
>pails
Fuck me, "pales", it's like 5 in the morning I'm not functioning right, time for bed

>>9574626
I don't think you quite understand the situation lad.
Yes, you're plugging and chugging, and it's not intellectually stimulating enough.
but guess what: actual engineering jobs are even worse.
The vast majority of people do stuff in their job that's simpler than what they did in their studies. Because no one is gonna pay you a salary for something you might not be able to do.

You might think the job of an engineer is coming up daily with cool and innovative solutions to new problems. It's not.
The only people who do innovation are either freelance inventors/entrepreneurs, or researchers.

>>9574751
Brainlets undervalue the significance of progress in solid state physics, more news at 11

They're not stigmatized, stop being a victim.

>>9574751
>Not mentioning M-theory
*a wild lumidek appears*

>>9574792
Whoa there, you see I covered my bases by saying "and that's not even the totality of all the results that have been found". Back to your blog lumo.

>>9574809
A poor defense, arguably the most important discovery of the 20th century in theoretical physics and you don't even mention it.
I smell an engineer's saliva from your cock.

>>9574626
I agree, I need to see more challenging and fulfilling problems.

>>9573288
It is rare that I agree 100% with something and I agree 100% with that video. Though, that has nothing to do with what you are talking about, OP. I'm old enough to remember being in Homec class (home economics) for only 1 year before it was removed statewide (nationwide too?) You know, that thing no one seems to be taught anymore,

>Home economics, domestic science or home science is a field of study that deals with the economics and management of the home, family and community.

Being taught math will help you only so far. Being taught how to manage your finances or balance your checkbook, with the math you are being taught instead of, 'how many pineapples does Jimmy have'; would be a lot better.

>>9573662
>>9573635
It is only true if you work in a call center.

>>9575743
not more challenging.
If anything tests should be abolished.
instead students should make videos or lecture notes where they show that they can teach the material. [that would be testing your understanding]
the second necessary test would be the application where they send you on internships or have you make a project.
The project would be supervised by Grad students who are T.A's and the Professors. In the case of the internships the company manager or your supervisor wirtes a report on you.

Like this they prepare you for the real shit.

What a fucking autistic system we have in place. Fucking writing exams, what sort of autism is this

>>9573374
Because normies are fucking retarded.

>>9573568
why the scatophobia?

>>9573374
The video in the OP isn't about not being educated. It is about selecting the correct education for life.

>>9573295
Pajeet get out

>>9573497
>Every sane person hates school as it is now.
y, yeah anon. No one enjoyed the classes they took in school. I totally didn't

>>9573864
>A teacher for every pupil!
>Personal tailored timetables!
>It's all about YOU!
That's a pretty wild misrepresentation of what he said. I'm pretty sure he only meant kids should be able to choose to focus more on the subjects they're interested in from a younger age and avoid learning all the things they don't care about and in all likelihood will never use. You don't need to increase the number of teachers to achieve that if you're smart about it.

>>9573374
maybe in america, over here in europe you're pretty well regarded by all of society if you're intellectual

>>9574246
>You can either work in STEM or be a brainlet retail worker and there is no in between

>>9573864
Are you an idiot? you get rid of bullshit like "no child left behind" and other such non-sense. Like actually leaving their asses behind until they do it right.

>>9574719
nope, CS is one of the easiest programs to get admitted to anywhere, and the rest you labeled are meme degrees.

I think the flaw with the video in OP is that boyinaband thinks the schools taught him the wrong things, implying that there is a list of correct things to teach. As if curriculum has not been a major subject of controversy since schools were invented. So what if the school had taught him "practical" things? He would have just made a rap song about how highschool didn't prepare him intellectually. The issue is not that schools are deficient, they do the best they can with the resources available to them, and they accomplish a considerable amount despite the constant swirling of conflicting opinions in education from parents, students, and teachers. If boyinaband really cared about changing education he would have taken some action instead of whining about it. I think on some level he knew the rap song was made for highschool students who are already prone to feeling victimized and cheated, and who look for any way to validate their misery in school

>>9576089
The "in between jobs" still need math dumbass.
How the fuck a bank teller can manage your Bank's account if he doesn't not even know High School Math?

>>9576050
its not about enjoying.
Its about making the connection with what your learning.
half the shit i saw in my last year as a mech i eng. i already forgot because there was so application.
basically stuff your brain before the final.
go into the exam barf everything on the sheet of paper.
leave

>>9573288
>see that snowflake hair?
you know exactly what kind of crowd is pushing an anti-science agenda...

>>9576156
Instead of just being against the mass majority which are noticing what agenda the song is pushing, rather than looking at the nooks and crannys in the song.

the songs message is absolutely right no fucking doubt.
the system is fucked. the lack of application, infrastructure placed on the education system. the shitty salaries being given to teachers.
its all fucked.
im a second year mech eng at an ivy league uni actually the best uni in my country.
ive been sucking the systems dick for long enough and using its loop holes to get where i am. but honestly i have had enough.
I am a mechanical engineer, they havent showed anything hands on yet, other than your autistic controlled labs on how to measure shit.
you are the snowflake, trying to be the neo-con and saying the system is flawless.

suck a dick you nigger

>>9576151
It's all done by computers these days, fampai. All your bank teller needs to know is how to type and click buttons.

>>9576173
All they really need is to be trustworthy with money and dress nicely.

>>9576173
Actually you don't even need bank tellers anymore. An ATM machine or Internet banking are just enough.

>>9573288
I remember in High School I told my dad I thought Biology was kinda cool and he replied "Yeah okay but what are you gonna do with THAT?" as though it were like, a hobby skill where you look at plants. Other people in my family kinda gave me the same treatment when I expressed interest in math, physics, chemistry, engineering ... they just genuinely didn't understand what you do with this knowledge. To their mind, there was only Business or Politics. Doctors and Lawyers exist but they were full of shit so don't bother.

Meanwhile, my great-aunts and uncles were actually all these doctors and engineers but I never got to interact with them.

My hypothesis is that in the US, educated people don't spend time around the uneducated. The uneducated are in greater numbers, and just don't see what the point is behind STEM pursuits because they actually have zero understanding of the technology around them. All they know is that Nancy Pelosi is a Lizard Person and there's nothing you can do about it. So just tough it out, don't try to untangle the web, just work at a lousy job, praise Jesus, have a family and the good guys will be vindicated on Judgment Day.

In retrospect I feel it's kind of miraculous I found myself in STEM after experiencing that.

>>9576163
> saying the system is flawless.
never said that.
The system could certianly improve, but corruption carries down and currently the suggested cure is to turn children into hyper-sensisitve panzies rather than teaching them the value of a dollar or why calculus is worth a damn. The liberal solution to the equation question is to give it a new coat of paint.

Its not entirely fucked globally though, america has a god-aweful system of education but america is not the world. Denmark, for example, has started the practice of kindergarden in nature to teach chilren practical skills and an appreciation for nature, they might be able to sneak some cleverly hidden solutions later too like arithmetic.

the IB system is being introduced, and it has some pretty good ideas and practices, but the education system will always be flawed because of the educators themselves. For instance, i never saw the value of math until i started delving into programming and i even grew to hate it somewhat because my math teachers were all a bunch of pricks and never entertainedany of my quesitons like "why does mutiplication work that way" or "whats a function", it was always "it just is that way".

I think if we want to improve our education system we must first improve how we educate our educators. Giving them random facts to spew at the youth is worth shit, and they should be able to answer any quesiton a child provides. Education was better back when only university was an available opiton too, there's just too much overhead now.

>mech eng and not touching anything physical
find a better uni anon, one that gives you actual hands-on experience.

>>9576177
>an ignorant who doesn't know even the most basic math and science
>trustworthy

"Trustworthy" aka Con-man.

because a business man who don't know basic math only can graduate college by cheating.

>>9576186
christfag here to go on a little rant.
You know what i fucking hate? American """christianity""". Its full of zionism, heresy, and other contrarian interprettive garbage, they worship fucking money and don't value anything but their own ass. Universsalists are absolute trash because they deny there is anything wrong with humanity or that evil people should go unpunished. Theen there's the buro-bap-tard who haven't read past exodus 12. American """""""christianity""""""" is only that in name, its a fucking shit-show and pagan garbage, may it burn down and be replaced by a proper church one day, amen.

>>9576193
That's how it works, that and nepotism.

>>9574626
>high school math
lmao

It makes me happy when people treat STEM subejcts this way, and it should delight all of you reading this as well, because it just means less competition in the job market. The more people hate learning science and math, the less I have to search for a job and the more I will get paid. It is job security.

If anything, we should be trying to convince kids not to be interested in this stuff.

>>9576195
Yeah, I'm not religious, but I'm not innately going to hate everyone who is religious, either. But, I genuinely think a significant number of American Christians suffer from neurodevelopmental disorders.

>>9574626
>trig. trick or PV=nRT
that's high school math.

>>9576227
wouldn't be surprised if all the in-breeding and mutts had a role in their retardation. They give christfags a bad name too, because their faith is all "listen and believe" which is exactly the opposite of the christian church's history (see the scholastics). sure there's an inevitable element fo faith, but theres also a rich history of critical thinking and inquiry/philosophizing that is being cast to the wayside by these fucking larpers.

>>9576224
>It makes me happy when people treat STEM .. this way,
>it means less competition in the job market.
This. Weeding out competition.

We should not care if these retarded kids who are listening that OP's music will be unemployed or get a shit job in future.

I just don't wanna lazy jobless people getting free money from social welfare paid with my taxes.
These kids should just fuck themselves in poverty.

>>9576231
not him but is calculus high school for you guys? I'm not even sure mine taught me limits.

Anyway I ask because pchem will have you use integral calculus and partial derivatives with ideal gas law

>>9576231 >>9576244
High School taught me Limits, Differentiation & Integration in 1 variable (AP level, without proofs)

>>9576236
Inbreeding only really happens in Alabama, it doesn't explain the nationwide phenomena.

I think it's more that our culture post-WW2 was nothing but shopping, convenience, and television. Basically, amazingly skilled advertisers managed to lull people into being lazy thinkers using the newest technology as it emerged, and future generations just kept riding the wave because they thought that was normal. And, that kind of environment is just not very good for growing intelligent adults.

That, and all the fucking lead that Boomers used to eat.

>>9576260
>I think it's more that our culture post-WW2 was nothing but shopping, convenience, and television. Basically, amazingly skilled advertisers managed to lull people into being lazy thinkers using the newest technology as it emerged, and future generations just kept riding the wave because they thought that was normal. And, that kind of environment is just not very good for growing intelligent adults.
>That, and all the fucking lead that Boomers used to eat.

Exactly. I would add that it really is just the shear consumerism that has led to such cancerous people. Furthermore, eveyones tied their feet to the lead weight that is materialism and as a result can't think abstractly for the life of them. Its fucking astonishing how few americans can even begin to comprehend the idea of objects without having some kind of materialistic symbol to represent it.

>>9576173
>It's all done by computers these days

Suddenly in a Power Shortage brainlets would not be able to do basic Arithmetic calculation.

Ironically their modern lives depend on Electrical Engineers who need to study a lot of math.

Without Engineers, Scientist & Mathematicians the society would collapse to Stone Age.

>>9576269
If Schools stop teaching Math and Science.
Then our technology would decline very quickly.
The humanity would go through a new medieval dark age 2.0.

the lack of scientific progress during the medieval dark age happened because brainlets stopped to value the academical knowledge of ancient greece and rome.

>>9576295
>the medieval era was a dark-age
the absolute state of the education system

>the lack of scientific progress during the medieval dark age happened because brainlets stopped to value the academical knowledge of ancient greece and rome.
lol no. the layman didn't care, sure, but monks sure as hell did. The Medieval Era had scholars (the scholastics, pls look em up) who had the deisres and philisophical reasoning to explore God's creation, which lended to the creation of the university and thus led to higher education,in addition to they're studying of the liberal arts.

We're already headed towards a medieval era 2.0 because of the shitty state of the education system, its just that now we will have retards running around with magic paper thinking they know anything.
Education should be reserved for only universities, i think. It would reduce overhead, and only the people interested in higher education would be able to access it. Weed out the wortheless brainlets, let those who care pursue it. As socretes pursued truth in Athens, so Scholars should pursue truth irrigardless of the care of the societ that surrounds them, and they should be willing to teach only those who care to learn.

>>9576187
so me and you are on the same page sorry for my previous rage.
I go to the best uni in my country and job finding wise its best to stick that you got a degree from there rather than get the hands on and never get a job.

i believe if some one were to start a school and raise the price to above average. Test a new system at this school, give teachers an above average salary, and just like how you have professors doing research, the teachers will be asked to right a research paper once every 1 or 2 years, were they come up with new strategies to teach kids. additionally the teachers have to back up their papers with other research done by sociologists and psychologists.

Finally you will be creating an environment where the teachers have the incentive of an above average salary. Additionally you are finding the teachers that are creative and actually want to innovate and teach.

however when the school starts we will need a baseline the other ideas that teachers come up with will be filtered threw a system [yet to be chosen] and apply on of the research papers every 5 years.

>>9576315
A bunch of monks doing mental masturbation (and literally masturbation) isn't Scientific Progress.

If Medieval Age was so enlighted and advanced then tell me why Catholic Church believed in Flat Earth for centuries and killed anyone who disagreed.

>>9576328
>Catholic Church believed in Flat Earth
senpai, no one since the bronze age believed in flat earth, the idea of flat-earth christianity is yes another american heresy that was introduced in the 1900's by an enlightenment larper who wasn't even christian.

>>9576328
its called extremism any religion and every religion has had its branch of extremist or era where they went to far.

in the past you had the islamic golden age, where caliphs would send there men to secure the greek books and roman books that christians were trying to burn.
where they would study the books and learn about the world while adding on to them.

now a days its the christians who are open minded and trying to accept the scientific world.

same goes with Buddhism etc.

in other words its just a phase

>>9576334
nigga they executed Copernicus and put Galileo in house arrest before he died from illness ?

are you dumb or are you dumb

It's funny because school fucking sucks but for basically the opposite reasons he describes

>>9576316
>I go to the best uni in my country and job finding wise its best to stick that you got a degree from there rather than get the hands on and never get a job.
is an employer looking for the shiniest degree or someone who knows that they're doing?

>suggested education system
sounds like an idea senpai. Now who's gonna do it, thats the question?
Also i suggest meritocracy, shitty teachers should have their salary lowered or be fired. Make the acceptance rate for teachers in universities lower too (like in engineering), by doing this only high-quality teachers get through which makes decent to good pay more possibe, since the demand will be high and the supply moderate.

>baseline
what would you suggest?

>>9576341
>nigga they executed Copernicus
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>9576334 >>9576338
Most Christians are close minded even now.

Try to tell a christian that may things in bible are Scientifically impossible.

Such as Mary Virgin Pregnancy, Jesus walking above waters.

If you lived in Middle Ages you would be burned alive as heretical.

>>9576341
Copernicus and Galileo were not arguing against flat-earth. They were arguing against geocentrism. Further, Galileo wasn't jailed because of his positions. He was jailed because the Pope believed he had insulted him. Galileo's work was written like Plato's, as a dialogue. In it, 3 people are discussing astronomy. One for Heliocentrism, one for Geocentrism, and one just asking questions. The Geocentrism guy made some of the exact same arguments, even in the same wording as the Pope had in a previous conversation with Galileo. Galileo chose to name the Geocentrism guy "Simplicio", which the Pope took as a direct insult.

>>9576341
History is complicated, and its contrary to christian theology to kill a man.
Galileo (if you read the actual primary source documents) was jailed for portraying the pope as an idiot in the dialogue he published, the pope was good friend of his and was more than willing to publish his work but explicitly asked him to give a balanced dialogue for the public to consider the information on their own. Instead Galileo made the character representing the then understood idea of earth-centrism look like an idiot, which didn't blow over well so then the pope had to put him under house arrest as a form of damage control.

Don't know about coppernicus, but i can bet there was more of a political reason then theological one for what happened to him, same as throughout history in general sempai.

>>9576341 >>9576334 >>9576328
this.
Catholic Church executed Copernicus.
They sentenced Copernicus to death.

>>9576355
But still. Catholic Church believed in geocentrism for centuries.

Anyone who disagreed with the Church were executed.

No wonder why the scientific progress was very slow during the DARK middle ages.

>>9576361
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus#Death
Again, what the fuck are you talking about?

>>9576365
>>9576361
is this the latest r/atheism meme?

>>9576364
>Anyone who disagreed with the Church were executed.
Please don't simplify history to "X group vs Y group" because it's never that simple. I know it makes it easier to comprehend when its told in a simplistc X then Y narrative but irl its never that simple.

>>9576364
Geocentrism != flat earth

>>9576368
Nigga do you even heard about Inquisition and Witch hunt?

Witch hunt:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-hunt
Inquisition:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

Catholic Church killed 70000 protestant people in France in a single day
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Bartholomew%27s_Day_massacre

>>9576347
in general shiniest means they now what their doing.
but in our case i have no fucking idea. id rather work for start ups at this point that be some desk fag in a big comp.

>>9576348
oops was thinking of someone else.
though his book was banned

>>9576347
>demand will be high and the supply moderate.

that is one way.

but at my uni engineering especially mech. had the highest needed score to get accepted basically making it so only those who wanted it can get in.

so either lower the bar and make the competition high in uni.

or raise the bar and you have had the competition cleared during school.

honestly after the students see such a shit system i dont know how they can even think of being a teacher.

>>9576353
you are talking to the extremist.
most people understand that the stories were metaphors.
and taken literarlly by the dumb dumbs in the past bcs they couldnt understand what a metaphor was or you couldnt convert them using metaphors and imagery.

>>9576365
>>9576348
jesus christ i was thinking of the wrong person and now its becoming some reddit tier meme.
COPERNICUS WAS NOT SENTENCED TO DEATH BY THE CHURCH.
I WAS WRONG

>but at my uni engineering especially mech. had the highest needed score to get accepted basically making it so only those who wanted it can get in.
and as a result shoddily build bridges are a rarity :^)

>honestly after the students see such a shit system i dont know how they can even think of being a teacher.
because its easy to make money by being a teacher?

>>9576375
>Inquisition and Witch hunt

>inquisition
condemned by pope and majority of christians durring its practice, was used by the venecians for political gain by getting rid of opponents and triking fear into the hearts of the citizenry.

>Witch hunts
very rarely practices in england, often practiced in America. Religion was used more as an excuse than a reason, often people did it jsut to get rid of that neighbor they didn't like. Shit, Salem only practiced it for 1 year and then everyone deemed it immoral and illegal. Furthermore you don't need ot be christian to believe in witches.

>>9576384
>you are talking to the extremist.
>most people understand that the stories were metaphors.
>and taken literarlly by the dumb dumbs
This is actually something Missing the Mark noted in his video on Chick and Dawkins. They both believe that the world can fit in their head, that their preferred tool is an omni-tool to solve all of lifes problems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5nzUuOXXFM

fun fact, did you know geocentrism was an anceint greek idea? A lot of people assume the greeks were right about everything, but when christians inherited greek philosophy they also inherited the shitty ideas the greeks came up with.

>his book was banned
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_revolutionibus_orbium_coelestium#Reception
please stop simplifying history family, things are always more complex than they seem.

>I WAS WRONG
its ok fampai i forgive you :^)

>>9576443
>condemned by pope and majority of christians
Don't try to fake History.

In 1231 Pope Gregory IX who started the Inquisition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Inquisition#Papal_inquisition

Persecution of Protestants by Catholics happened in Spain, Portugal, France, Italy, Ireland & Latin America.

>>9576452
>Persecution of Protestants by Catholics happened in Spain, Portugal, France, Italy, Ireland & Latin America.
I think my friend has some answering to do...

>>9574626
I mean you did an engineering degree anon. What did you even expect? Of course you weren't stimulated.

>>9573486
>humanities students are perceived as useless fruits and future McDonald's employees by most of the society
your perception =/= society

>>9576503
I don't know how much brainlet MechEs are.

But one can't graduate in EE, if you don't know at very least Vector Analysis, Complex Analysis, Laplace & Fourier transforms.

>>9576503
I don't know how much brainlet MechEs are.

But you can't graduate in EE, if you don't know at very least Vector Analysis, Complex Analysis, Laplace & Fourier transforms.

>>9576530
nigga what are PDE's

>>9576563
Every engineer takes Linear Algebra & Differential Equations

>>9576566
not any differential equations, but partial differential equations in pure math. only mech eng. students were given that shit at my uni.
everyone else had the small PDE's class that would focus on its application.
we had some old fuck teach us all the pure math and nonesense.
i wanted to kill myself studying for that final.
i passed thank god

>>9576530
you really, really don't need complex analysis, unless you're just talking about the basic theory of functions and calculus in C

It annoys me how people say "oh im bad at math lmao" like it's a good thing. If you were illiterate, you would be embarrassed. But being innumerate is somehow a trait to look highly upon. When I worked retail, I had a coworker who was a 20 years old and when asked to increase a price by ten dollars, she had to get her phone and use a calculator. There is something to be said when a person can't do basic arithmetic at that age and somehow isn't considered a retard.

A lot of useful numeracy is also being able to "read between the lines" with regards to things like like APR vs EAR and loan payments vs saving and buying in cash.

Calculators were a mistake

>>9576640
no one said that they feel good about themselves if they are bad at math.
they simply wont feel shy or guilty as if they were illiterate.
get off your high horse faggot. if you think calulators are an issue then your the dumb fuck stuck in grade 12.

nigga you get to a point were having a calculator or not wont make a fucking difference.
bitch nigga how old is your fuck ass.

>>9576646
Stop talking like a filthy nigger.

>>9576177
That's the case for overwhelming majority of jobs. Charisma insanely boosts your career opportunities to the point where you can almost be incompetent for given job and still get it.
>>9576184
We're getting close. In yuropoor even small family bussinesses accept cards these days. I still carry cash when i'm traveling though, especially in murica (also, why are their terminals so slow?).
>>9576283
Engineers wouldn't be able to do most of their work without computers either (they would, but it would take ages). Or you're one of the people who'd rather analyse circuits by hand instead of running it in a sim?

>>9576092
>engineering physics
>"meme degree"
They´re literally one step below physicists, two steps below mathematicians and ten steps above any other engineering discipline in terms of difficulty of obtaining a degree.

>>9576187
>better uni
>actual hands-on experience
Glorified technician who calls himself "engineer" detected.

>>9576244
>not him but is calculus high school for you guys? I'm not even sure mine taught me limits.
Kort matematik/lyhyt matematiikka pleb detected. This >>9576259
is taught in any and all nordic high schools.

>>9576260
>Basically, amazingly skilled advertisers managed to lull people into being lazy thinkers using the newest technology as it emerged, and future generations just kept riding the wave because they thought that was normal. And, that kind of environment is just not very good for growing intelligent adults.
Intelligence is largely heritable and not affected by "skilled advertisers"; the morons using technology to avoid thinking were morons all along, and will continue to produce equally moronic offspring regardless of the state of society.

>>9573507
Puedo hablar espanol anon, you don't conjugate the verb after poder.

The whole point of learning is to prepare yourself for more advanced learning and thinking. Being able to prove something mathematically might not be necessary, but the thinking process that leads to the solution is not something that comes naturally. Being able to think is not a magical skill, it comes with practice and learning. The reason idiots think they need to be taught how to balance a checkbook is not because they were never taught how to do so, but in actuality it stems from them refusing to learn basic math and thinking processes. You have the tools you need to do so in elementary school, and yet this is was a common complaint of HIGH SCHOOL students several years ago. If student's refuse to learn, they will never be able to solve problems by themselves. If students put in the effort to learn, the "problems" they face after high school are not really problems at all.

>>9573288
>Wah wah public schools are shit
Does this guy think public schools are there to prepare you for life? They're there to subsidize government workers. Go to university if you want to learn real shit.

>>9573335
>woefully unprepared for life

But certain 'life' skills should be taught at home or be taken from the parents/family.

It is unfortunate though that not all children will grow up with capable parents, a conducive family home to learning, or access to people who can guide them appropriately.

The knowledge that a person learns is not always transmitted on to each generation e.g. offspring, hence the need for a comprehensive education system which ensures the continuing education needs of society are met.

I don't think it incorrect that schools therefore should contribute some time or capacity to teaching 'life' skills which are not attainable from the home. It could be run on an extra-curricular basis and only for those who most need it i.e. from disadvantaged backgrounds.

>>9573288
because the religious nutjobs think that "playing god" is wrong. What they fail to realise is that, when it helps to cure a terminal or chronic illness, no one will give a shit.

>>9573523
>were pretty popular

Niche popular. The ones who cared most about it were already interested in science and the films hypothetical scenario basis to begin with. Normies didn't really give a shit, were not inspired by it, nor was any of the salient knowledge points really paid attention to.

>>9576244
in UK standard is you learn calc without proofs (no mention of limits in derivatives or integrals) up to differential equations of second order, and physics and chemistry you only use algebra, no calculus involved (for whatever reason they dont want to make math a corequisite for the others). In mainland europe they usually include calc in physics too, not in chemistry however.

>>9574626
>mass replying

>>9573875
>I just said more personalized.
>>9576066
>That's a pretty wild misrepresentation of what he said.

In any case, extreme though the conclusion might have been, the main point stands that the education system as is not capable of adapting to these requirements of 'personalized' education. We already split classes based on capability and the whole point of the curriculum is to give as well rounded and decent overview of topics and subjects that (should) stimulate the mind and ability to think and apply. By giving everyone an equal basis of education to work from you are giving them the freedom to make what they want of it NOT deciding what is best for each person.

Cutting short the education requirements to adapt it to each pupil would require a huge rethinking of the education system and its purpose. It would require an in-depth individual assessment of every pupil and then perhaps rather draconianly deciding what is 'best' for them blunting their opportunities. Do you trust a kid to know what they think is best to them when they don't know all their options? Do you trust a judgement made many years ago despite knowing that people do change and interests change over time too? Are these 'personalised' education timetables going to need re-assessment every year drawing in even more time, manpower and effort to keep it 'correct'?

A big problem is as shown by OPs video was that too many are incapable of abstracting from these study exercises losing any benefit as they have no interest to learn in the first place as they cannot 'apply' it to any scenario that they see as relevant to their own lives. They do not see that education is something which gives you freedom to decide without hindering their choices as opposed to what they want where they are essentially crying to have their life path chosen for them ignoring what could be.

>>9577359
> If student's refuse to learn, they will never be able to solve problems by themselves. If students put in the effort to learn, the "problems" they face after high school are not really problems at all.
The issue lies in the inability of many people to grasp basic algebra despite tremendous effort.

Many people are simply "too stupid" to solve abstract problems of the most simple kind.

>>9577380
>The knowledge that a person learns is not always transmitted on to each generation e.g. offspring
No, but intelligence is.
>hence the need for a comprehensive education system which ensures the continuing education needs of society are met.
To be frank, only a marginal percentage of the population ever studies and tackles issues that require a high education.

Most people don´t currently attain a university degree, much less a STEM degree, and most of them will never attain one. This is an inevitability, sprung from the highly uneven distribution of intelligence in a given population.

>>9577323
lol do you genuinely believe that contradicts what I said?

>>9577321
I'm from Burgerstan. I can't quite judge my HS because memory is fuzzy, and I was an atrocious student who wouldn't have even taken it if it were available. But, I was still in close connection with lots of great students.

But I don't recall any of my smart friends learning any. My general impression was that if they did teach it, it was a very small class. I think my school was much more interested in getting us to do Humanities stuff.

>>9573288
I think people who shit on education are a vocal minority. Few people (in my corner of the world anyways) drop out of high school (not hard to graduate ffs) and only a tiny percentage of them become successful in any way. Most just seem to evaporate. Only a tiny percent of the successful people who drop out bother to gloat about it online.

Honestly just a vocal minority and survivorship bias.

>>9577415
>but intelligence is.

There are innumerable cases of unsuccessful people having children who go on to surpass many expectations and vice-versa. An education system as well as to transmit necessary knowledge is also to be fair and unbiased in who is being taught, to provide an equal footing for all whether they can ultimately meet the fullest of what that system provides. It's about giving opportunity. Teaching to certain minimum levels of education whether the student can appreciate it or not is irrelevant because at the end of the day if they end up as a burger flipper they can not blame the education system for not giving them the opportunity to learn something which might have made them something more.

>that require a high education.

And it is not always possible to determine what that marginal percentage of population will be hence a well rounded education which teaches so far in each respective subject. If a person gets below a certain grade at a certain age would we just banish them from that subject forever and not give them the opportunity to continue trying? It is already understood that not everyone has the necessary ability to learn the fullest of the curriculum of a subject offers and are put into classes which try and teach a certain minimum. What more can we give them with the limited resources that society can place on a universal education?

>>9577411
People aren't stupid. They just choose to not study and do. If it's a little hard, they just say I don't understand and leave. I understand that some people genuinely can not do math, but I'm fairly certain at least 80% of people are capable of doing basic algebra if they put effort to learn.

>>9577542
based on everything I've seen and read this seems correct

more intelligent people are able to challenge themselves to work harder on something because they have the capacity to attach the concept of a deferred reward to study efforts. They also find it easier to understand methods of solving problems. But, anyone can learn simple methods, and that's all you need to get through any undergraduate STEM program.

If you look at those IQ charts that claim Physicists score rather high, it's not unreasonable to assume it's because they are in fact smart people. But, it's not because Physics is actually so hard that say, anyone below a 110 can't possibly comprehend the material; in fact I think anyone IQ 100 without any serious disability could understand most Physics concepts and associated math if they made serious effort at pursuing a degree. The reason they don't make a serious effort is because they are challenged in ways that are not intuitive to solve, and the lack of any apparent need to work at it discourages them. They'll stare at a problem with growing anxiety and frustration instead of actually thinking about the problem. They'll whine that they can't do it. They'll look for every opportunity to think about something else, or escape the room altogether. Aversion to problem solving isn't proof their brain lacks the functional capacity necessary to solve it.

>>9577386
hi, i'm one of those religious "nut jobs" you're talking about.
Stem cell research should be looked into, because it is a moral imperative to improve human life and quality of living, however it is immoral to use fetal stem-cell research. Also, we should look into GM (genetic modification), but we should be careful with how we do it, we don't want to make god-forsaken abominations with no existence or purpose (like deformed cat-epedes), or fuck around with things we don't understand. So i fully support GM research as long as it has a justifiable and reachable goal that will certainly improve human life, such as golden rice.

>>9577408
>They do not see that education is something which gives you freedom to decide without hindering their choices as opposed to what they want where they are essentially crying to have their life path chosen for them ignoring what could be.
I attended a high school where 90+% of students went to some university, so people could choose what they wanted to focus on from grade 11 with university in mind. From that perspective, letting kids decide sooner what they want to focus on (like from grade 9) would be beneficial, in my opinion. Of course, a 15 years old kid won't necessarily know what they'll want to learn at university, but they'll definitely have a general idea (do they want to learn math, physics, and programming, or are they more interested in the humanities).
As for the people who don't plan on going to university, high school is honestly useless. It is true that the average person who didn't go to high school is dumber than the one who did, but that's only because dumb kids generally don't go to high school/drop out, and not because high school gives you some divine knowledge that makes you smarter.

>>9575774
>If anything tests should be abolished.
I like your idea about students showing their ability to teach the material, but the problem with that is that one could make a reasonably good video on a subject without actually having the material committed to long-term memory, if they relied extensively on their notes while making the video. I think the best solution would be a combination of tests and proof of teaching ability.

>>9574206
somebody show this faggot how to grow a crystal farm

>>9577489
>There are innumerable cases of unsuccessful people having children who go on to surpass many expectations and vice-versa.
They are exceptions to the rule. Wherever you go in a first world country, the overwhelming majority of STEM-students come from the middle class, upper middle class or upper class. Similarly, the overwhelming majority of adults without a HS or post-HS degree have a similar family background.

>What more can we give them with the limited resources that society can place on a universal education?
Indoctrination, of course. Bright students learn, create and discover in school, while the less able learn to accept the fundamental values of industrial society.

>>9577796
>my arbitrary morals should govern everyone else

"If you're so smart why ain't you rich"

In our type of society only the acquisition of wealth matters. Most people realize STEM is the hard way to do it, or at least they believe it should since it is difficult.

>>9577542
>. They just choose to not study and do.
> If it's a little hard, they just say I don't understand and leave.
Lack of ability precedes the "choice" (we are all victims of circumstance, after all) not to study.
>I understand that some people genuinely can not do math, but I'm fairly certain at least 80% of people are capable of doing basic algebra if they put effort to learn.
You´re probably right in assuming that, but basic algebra alone is not enough to succeed in any professional position.

>>9578014
>hurr durr yur opresin me!!!!
>hurr we should go gun-ho without any regulations
i hope you like super-aids you mega-faggot.
fuck you too buddy.

>>9578022
Nice straw man, buddy. Murder is illegal for moral reasons, but it serves to stabilize society. Can the same be said for your stem-cell morals?

>>9578029
>straw man
you started it you massive whore.

>Can the same be said for your stem-cell morals?
No because murder is clear-cut and stem-cells are not. I'm suggesting we should regulate it and extract stem-cells from willing adults rather than killing 8-month old fetuses and extracting it from their corpses like some kind of perverted grave-robbers. It would be optimal if we could grow cultures of stem-cells in agar, researchers are working on this already so i'd fund that.
We can both agree that murder is wrong when its done to an adult human, but i'm guessing you will disagree that the same principle applies to a pre-born infant since "its not thinking" or somehow doesn't become a person until it passes through the vagina (too bad for c-section babies i guess they're not human either). Don't start with that goal-post shit either where you keep changing the standard for what constitutes a human life either, becase the definitions are always vague at best which make for a fucking pile of shit.

Now fuck off i'm not in the mood to talk about morality on a science board.

tl;dr - there should be regulations, fuck you buddy, this is /sci/, not /his/.

>>9578048
You were the one who started talking about morals.

Don't flaunt your hot opinions in public if you don't want to be criticized.

>>9578059
I should also add, I'm not the guy from several posts back, I think there was a bit of confusion. My first post is
>>9578014

>>9574273
>And it's unthinkable to a Medical doctor to not know Chemistry.
lol you have never seen a doctor or been in a hospital, have you?

>>9574626
You can teach yourself faster. This is why you should just teach yourself as long as what you want to be doesn't legally require a degree.

>>9578013
>while the less able learn to accept the fundamental values of industrial society.

Your general tone of attitude seems to be 'the dumb should know their place and accept that is the way the world is'.

Maybe their fate was determined when they were born into the world in lesser and more unfortunate circumstances; with limited intelligence which meant they could never become something greater than a low skilled, easily redundant, worker but who could be happy being given such a position? To be treated so contemptuously and with condescension?

It is that attitude that leads to revolts, class warfare, destabilisation in society as these people can see their lives are hopeless, fruitless, and so why should they even try and live lawfully? At least education can give an illusion of striving for something more and knowing that path is there. It can occupy their minds and instead divert it from dissatisfaction and socially destructive intentions where ultimately the onus of failure falls entirely on their own shoulders. Just look at parts of America and the black population - living criminal lives, stuck in ruts, endless depression and despondency - they don't see any hope in their situation nor any help and so they live on the fringes causing more trouble to everyone then they are worth. Throw them a bone and pity them at least and maybe they would strive for greater heights even if you and I know it is nothing but an unattainable illusion.

>>9577415
>Most people don´t currently attain a university degree, much less a STEM degree, and most of them will never attain one. This is an inevitability, sprung from the highly uneven distribution of intelligence in a given population.

lol do you seriously think that because you can distribute people into groups by aptitude that this necessitates most people lack the brain capacity get a STEM degree? please go on professor, I eagerly await your lecture on the neurobiology of STEM graduates

>>9577397
>(no mention of limits in derivatives or integrals
Do you mean first principles? Why is Europe so ahead of America?

>>9578811
One of the reasons there are so many flat earthers in america.

The american intellectual elite are the top and best in the world.
But the average normie american is a brainlet compared to Europe.

Things my high-school taught me:
*How to cook
*How to clean
*How to press clothes & maintain a presentable uniform
*How to tie a tie
*How to polish shoes
*How to calculate the simple and compound interest
*How to identify punitive-tier usury
*How to budget & manage money
*Geometry
*Algebra
*Matrices & Matrix operations
*Graphs & Graph operations
*Evolution & genetics
*Chemistry
*Physics
*Local & world literature
*Local & world history
*Comparative theology
*Geology
*Geography
*Sociology
*Civics
*How to sew & make clothes
*Carpentry
*Dietetics, sexual health & general health management
*How to dance (ballroom & modern)
*Drama & theater
*Social volunteering & civic engagement

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few classes. How did I get such a well-rounded, comprehensive education that allowed my peers to achieve the highest GPAs in the state? How did my peers get free rides to the best colleges in my country?

>Private Christian Highschool (co-ed so no homo)

I forgot a few:
*How to set up a bivouac
*How to read a map & navigate
*How to frosby flop, shot-put, throw & kick a ball and throw a fucking javelin

>>9579138
Yeah and how much per year did mommy and daddy pay to raise a shill?

>>9573288
I always assumed that the stigmatism surrounding STEM fields was itself a fabrication by people qualified in STEM fields to keep the numbers of STEM qualified workers artificially low and thus keep their own wages relatively high.

>>9578048
>rather than killing 8-month old fetuses and extracting it from their corpses like some kind of perverted grave-robbers
You might not like abortions, but as long as they're legal, we should at least make some use of the dead fetuses and use their stem cells to save lives or improve the quality of people's lives. Banning stem cell research while keeping abortion legal is just retarded, and so is arguing about stem cell research when your issue is with abortions.

>>9573357
Examples to support dumbanon

Taxes so you don't get fucked over by the state
Law so you don't get fucked over by other people
What to expect from you job/how to apply
These should be enough things that should be thaught by default.
Add a bit of practical work lile soldering and you should be okay.

Still better than you not giving a single reason not to teach more practical skills instead of advanced algebra, which you will never need if you do anything practical, while you can still need these even though you are in university or something.

>>9573507
>puedo hablo espanol

JAJAJAJAJA! Me debes bromear! Pienso que te puedes volver a aprenderlo, pendejo.

>>9579733
>use their stem cells to save lives
THE IRONY

>>9573288
He's right though. When are you ever taught anything about basic laws of society? Even if you take law subjects, most of what you learn about is the system.

>>9573288
>Why are STEM fields so stigmatized in society?

IT's a warfare tactic.

STEM is how you make better weapons, so our enemies infiltrate our civilization and discourage such things to make our military weaker in the future.

>>9578454
>Your general tone of attitude seems to be 'the dumb should know their place and accept that is the way the world is'.
That is what they do, with or without a government propaganda arm guiding them. It is more useful, however, to control people to a certain extent.

>Maybe their fate was determined when they were born into the world in lesser and more unfortunate circumstances; with limited intelligence which meant they could never become something greater than a low skilled, easily redundant, worker but who could be happy being given such a position?
You are correct.
> At least education can give an illusion of striving for something more and knowing that path is there.
It doesn´t seem to be a prerequisite for a happy life, judging by the 70% of the population in all nations who hold degrees no more demanding than a high school diploma.
>Throw them a bone and pity them at least and maybe they would strive for greater heights even if you and I know it is nothing but an unattainable illusion.
I don´t argue against public schooling. I was simply describing the obvious function of state-sponsored basic education - it has never been, is not, and will never be founded on the concept of teaching the masses difficult abstract concepts.

>>9578801
>le black people
I didn´t mention black people at all in my post. What I said holds true in equal measure for many a white and asian man or woman.

>please go on professor, I eagerly await your lecture on the neurobiology of STEM graduates
Most STEM graduates possess an above-average IQ, and most of them happen to be white or asian.

>>9579133
>How did I get such a well-rounded, comprehensive education that allowed my peers to achieve the highest GPAs in the state?
>Private Christian Highschool
There´s your answer. Smart people earn money, breed smart children and go on to send their children to private school.
> How did my peers get free rides to the best colleges in my country?
They were bright and had a family income below the threshhold for a "free ride".

>>9580281
>STEM is how you make better weapons, so our enemies infiltrate our civilization and discourage such things to make our military weaker in the future.
Very few people possess the aptitude for cutting-edge weapons development; the odd mediocrity taking bad advice from a washed-up musician will not put a dent in the amount of bright youngsters who go on to careers in STEM-related academics and, therefore, possibly weapons research.

>>9579133
>>9579138
Wow, so common sense has to be taught in America?

>>9574626
You should've gone into material sciences. That is where the cool stuff happens from 3rd semester, you are surrounded by the cool guys and girls and get to solve real world problems and create superstrong materials from a handful of weak stuff just by applying the right amount of heat or the right amount of water and minerals. It is not late to change majors and is quite near to your existing mech engi knowledge.

>>9576184
Eh, tellers are important for a few uncommon transactions like exchanging currency or getting cashier's checks. Mostly they're still around because old people don't like computers.

>>9577415
People confuse academic intelligence with industrial intelligence. Schools shove math and science down young people's throats because they think that learning how to solve algebra equations and reciting every event from Adam and Eve makes them world saviors. Yet, they don't teach them how to cook, drive, fix appliances, wash and iron clothes, etc. Ironically, college was originally meant for literal bookworms and prodigies. This whole "college is for everyone" is gonna be the downfall of the West. Especially since politics is heavily entwined in it.

>>9573288
Welcome to the rape baby between the Prussian education system and Italian Humanism. It didn't come out right but no one's willing to really try anything different that isn't just drastically lowering the bar.

>>9573683
France

If you are bad at math in France you're considered like a trash nigger

>>9573288
>Why are STEM fields so stigmatized in society?

>Really like rocks and minerals
>Want to be geologist since I was 9yo
>go to school get good grades
>finally a mineral expert
>literally no one will hire me to study minerals
>old fucks studying minerals in university to make better batteries, capacitors, magnets, etc
>only jobs for a geologist is in the oil industry
>realize my job is now finding rocks to break through to get oil and gas
>million year old rocks
*cry internally

>>9582096
cheer up mate! go into prospecting, apprentice under some old fart and get digging! who knows what you might find!

>>9573288
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3nVwrSk1p4

Yep. Stay in school, so you can be a winner like that physics grad taking your burger orders. You would not want to be like those other drop outs Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Brad Pitt or Johnny Depp.

School is good.

>>9582134
>You would not want to be like those other drop outs Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Brad Pitt or Johnny Depp

Or the dude who works at an AT&T call center, or Bubba the redneck stumpin' enthusiast, or the bum that sucks cock under the bridge for crack money.

See like, I don't even consider survivorship bias to be a particularly esoteric fallacy. You should know why this reasoning is bullshit before you even post it. But here we are

>>9577039
you maed wiyteboy?

>>9573448
nah, highly intelligent people are by definition abnormal, and instinctively humans tend to dislike the abnormal. psychological conditioning tends to reduce this tendency, but nonetheless, we are animals and our nature tends to color our perspective more than even rational people would like to believe.

>>9582145
None of which is cause by lack of schooling. Those people might have simply low IQ. How many really successful people have built their success on schooling ? Even medical doctors hate their jobs.

>>9573288
Here's the objectively best opinion, stop caring at all about motivating or getting brainlets into STEM and redirect all funding into spotting gifted students and providing them with the best possible education. All brainlets should just learn a trade so boyinaband is correct

>>9580635
>I didn´t mention black people at all in my post. What I said holds true in equal measure for many a white and asian man or woman.

Who said anything about black people? Did you mean to quote someone else?

>Most STEM graduates possess an above-average IQ, and most of them happen to be white or asian.

Stating STEM graduates possessing above average IQ isn't neurobiology. That's a statistical observation and has nothing to do with function. I was asking you for function. I want you to prove that because STEM graduates are high IQ that a high IQ is necessary. Can you distinguish capacity from behavior?

>>9573635
>what is /a/, /r9k/, /s4s/

>>9573794
how so? enlighten me.

>>9573288
I don't think all that should be taught in school but it someone should let students know where to get that knowledge themselves. I mean, I was taught pretty cool shit like basic economics, politics, philosophy and even how to plan your travels but I feel like just giving us info on where to learn that ourselves would be better because in some other highschools students were taught more advanced math and highschools should teach more advanced math because you go to college/university once you graduate anyway and all others who don't do that go to trade schools.

>>9573288
Because STEM, GPA 0/4, 401K all sound fucking retarded just like the generation they all came from. You should be ridiculed and removed for your gay generation.

>>9573748
kan niet voor andere richtingen spreken, maar in ASO latijn wordt wel zo gedacht, zo heb ik het toch ervaren