/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9540334
Lysergic acid diethylamide binds with serration receptors, which regulate what way the brain processes what you see hear, and how you perceive it, basically it makes your brain literally see the world in a different way

it's not a harmful though, and the long term effects beyond psychological aren't noticeable, but people have gotten PTSD from taking LSD, or committed suicide, but having a bad trip is more of your fault then the actual drug

DMT will give similar, weird results, but also binds with dopamine receptors, so it knocks you out when you trip

>>9540349
serotonin*

>>9540349
this

specifically the 5ht2a receptor is responsible for the psychedelic effects

>>9540349
>having a bad trip is more of your fault then the actual drug
Explain how this works. It better not be something dumb like your unconscious is clinging to all this repressed guilt and frustration and that it's your own Silent Hill version of what a trip should be.

People take it and think they're having some profound spiritual expirience when really they're just seeing the world through a malfunctioning brain.
It really messes with perception. I can remember bring in a stadium at a concert and not feeling but knowing that I could jump across to the other side. Of course there is still some sanity in there to stop you trying. You are aware that you are on drugs.

>>9540359
if you're having negative emotions, the imbalance of chemicals that causes you to feel bad can effect how LSD effects the brain, which can cause negative and terrifying hallucination , but it can be controlled by meditating, or relaxing the body, anxiety can also cause you to have a bad trip, so usually you need to be in a decent state of mind before using something that can amplify emotions, but all psychedelic drugs are different
druggies say repressed guild, but there's always a chemical responsible for it
you're perception of emotion is a touchy subject though, everybody is different

>>9540369
I've never halucinated on it. Visual disturbances sure but everything else is just you imagining things really vividly. You remember it as something you saw.
Mushrooms however, fucking horrible. You will see things. Even after its worn off you'll being seeing never ending shifting patterns everytime you close your eyes. Shit won't quit for a looong time. Good luck sleeping it off.

>>9540349
>DMT also binds with dopamine receptors
Source please.

It fucks with your noise filter, making you find meaningful patterns where there are none.

>>9540349
>more your fault than the actual drug

And long term isnt noticeable. Are you a statistician.

>>9540369
Shut the fuck up dude.

>>9540334
It increases functional integration in the brain. Connectivity. Thats why it expands consciousness.

>>9540359
>>9540369
>>9540496

Imagine a roller coaster.
You are terrified of heights and acceleration.
You have 2 broken legs.
You just ate so much food that you might shit yourself.

Chances are, if you get on that roller coaster, you are going to have a bad fucking time.

The start of a trip is exactly like the top of a big drop. In order to enjoy the experience you need to:
know you are safe
be comfortable
want to be there
ect

otherwise you will just fuck yourself.
If anyone tries to give you a more ""scientifically literate"" explanation of why bad trips happen then they are most likely full of it. or maybe im just lay who knows.

>>9540349
I know how it works, but why does the acid compound and similar psychs give such unique and profound effects?

Spoiler alert: nobody has any clue at all why the LSD molecule behaves in the way it does. We know how it works, what it targets in the brain, but as to what gives acid it's intense and unique properties? No clue.

>>9540349
>serration receptors
my sides

>>9540359
it is born from the refusal to surrender, accept, acknowledge truth and embrace change.

>>9540368
It's not malfunctioning it's your actual brain without stimuli filtering. Quite amazing

>>9540380
the moment you enter this world, its all there, just suppressed by the ego filter.
>>9540349
every time i've taken DMT i was conscious the entire time, but trying to look back through each and every bit is impossible due to the present-moment amnesia

in terms of what is really happening, its literally beyond-normal, or paranormal. you really are interacting with other aspects of our multidimensional reality. everyday experience is a mere drop in the ocean of what is out there. life is pretty mysterious. good luck scientifically measuring the multidimensional experience.

>>9541250
Because something is bound to poke the brain in just the right way to make things super weird and ultra profundo.
Just like those people who have seizures that originate in a part of the brain that makes them feel like they're literally in the presence of a benevolent all knowing presence bathed in golden light like the felt "footprints" painting in your grandma's house.
It doesn't mean there is an objective "spiritual" component to reality, but there is a button in out brain that, when pushed, gives us a sense of a greater awareness.
We don't understand consciousness and so its hard to predict how certain things will tamper with perception on an individual perceptive layer.

>>9541302
@higher doses

>>9540496
>expands consciousness
lol fuck off druggie, it causes the brain to malfunction

>>9540359
>Explain how this works.
Because it's just a chemical, and its your baggage and reaction to it that makes it a "Bad" trip.
Also if you're not prepared for it the whole "ego death" thing is pretty terrifying. I don't necessarily buy into all the shamanistic new age voodoo that surrounds it, but it can be a useful way to have a lifeline in a psychedelic experience. Those rituals and beliefs come from a way of dealing with altered states and not getting lost.
One of the things I always do to prepare for a trip is to take some random but identifiable object (a coin in your pocket) and tell yourself that this "thing" represents you, and that you're going to put it somewhere safe, so it will be there when you get back. Then put it in a drawer or on a shelf and forget about it. It's not doing anything real, but if you ever start to get really anxious, worried, or scared you can just remember that it's all a ride and (You) are still in that drawer, safe and sound.
When you're in that *headspace* you're off the map scientifically speaking as far as your subjective experience. It's the "here be dragons" on ancient maps.

>>9541311
It can also make you appreciate how perception dictates reality and how perception is dictated by a delicate balance of chemicals, and can be thrown into utter fucking chaos by a chemical with dosage measure in micrograms.
If anything it reinforces the importance of math and science because it's the only way we can objectively know that this isn't all mass hysteria.

All 'psychedelic' modes of operation are caused by temporary equivalents of brain death, without actually damaging the brain (Usually restructuring it (for the better)).
What is commonly reported are individualized life reviews, that are very much comparable to the accounts of seeing your whole life flash before your eyes as you almost die.

>>9541311
no pain no gain, fool

>>9540334
What the actual FUCK is happening to your brain when you don't take acid?

>>9541379
Nothing really, just a consistent, predicable dream with the binary law of consequence for every action.
It can be pretty addicting though, you get really attached to your avatar through all the suffering it will go through, it's a nice way to fill the eternal void though

>>9540349
Except when some of the aberrations don't leave when the high is over. I think visual stuff like light trails/ghost trails are the most common thing to linger or become stuck, but it is rather rare to occur.

As someone who's experienced both sides of the psychedelic experience, heaven and hell, nobody is immune to bad /difficult trips. A good set and setting generally keeps that from happening but to there's always that risk. I definitely understand why some people never try LSD again after a negative trip. You really don't know how bad it can be until it happens to you. With that said, I think LSD can bring you to some good insight as well as it can have you believing absurd things.

>>9540349
>having a bad trip is more of your fault then the actual drug
>>9540359
>Explain how this works.
Psychedelics are like echo chambers for your thoughts.
While sober you might have thoughts like "this sucks, oh well" or "wow, that was pretty cool, I had a good time."
On LSD thoughts like that become massive feedback loops of:
>oh no, this is really fucked up, can I feel my heartbeat, yeah I think so, what even is thinking, nobody really knows and I'm here alone in this room dying because I took some brain altering chemical like an idiot, this is what hell's like, if I can't stop freaking out I'm going to have a heart attack, I can't calm down, oh fuck what the fuck am I going to do.
Or:
>Shit this is amazing, the walls are breathing, it's like I'm seeing colors for the first time and I never really existed as a separate self, we're all part of the same eternal blissful super-being like a vast indifferent ocean and all my perceived problems are just little bubbles that form and pop with no impact on our true existence beyond the conditioned illusory details of my day to day life.
There's nothing inherently good or bad about an echo chamber, it just takes what you bring with you and multiplies it a shitload giving you a radically different sense of reality than you're used to.

>>9541423
I think it's possible to be immune to bad or difficult trips on LSD, but the people this is true for are that way because they're too retarded to imagine how things could go wrong, so they never fall into the bad trip trap because they never even begin having negative thoughts.

>>9541436

>>9541462
?
What's controversial about the possibility of being too stupid to have negative thoughts? It's the opposite of depressive realism.

>>9540349
>serration

Uhh but chemical combustions are responsible for everything we feel and do. Synthetic chemicals that duplicate dopamine and serotonin and etc are responsible for fucking civilization itself. It’s more than “oh wee bubbles are trippy and music is amazing”. Fucking shrooms may have been the reason our ancestors formulated language and shared ideas and built communities and negotiated trades and breed/fed animals and etc. The psychedelic culture consist of the curious mind expanding creatures who have the desire to learn more about the in’s and out’s of the within and around but it also consists of the curious dickriders who just wanna jack off on a new high. Everyone should take it with precaution and talk to the entities

>>9541436
I follow what you're saying. As powerful a drug it is, if you lack the ability to self reflect to any degree then it's certainly possible to not have a bad trip.

>>9541466
It is really just 'immune until you're not' everyone is capable of having a bad trip. Sure obliviousness might help protect you but they are far from invulnerable.

>>9540496
>increases functional integration in the brain.
no it doesnt, it just modulates it

>>9541514
Modulate = change. Increase is a form of change. Wtf you talking about youre criticising me with an alternative explanation the exact same as mine. Plus i can cite literature.
>>9541311
Im talking literally in the sense that lsd changes consciousness to the subjectie effect of expansion. I dont trip. But lsd modulates functional integration as you said and often can put people in a state where the boundaries of self and the world. In that sense expansion is apt because people feel a unity with the world.

Im into science not lsd. Stfu.

>>9540583

>If anyone tries to give you a more ""scientifically literate"" explanation of why bad trips happen then they are most likely full of it. or maybe im just lay who knows

Isnt this a dangerous way of thinking. The cause of bad trips isnt unexplainable just complex. Sure we have no model of it now but maybe in the future. Neuroscience has started studying lsd now.

But also that -69 guys chemical talk is standard unverified bullshit.

>>9541413
I've had shitloads of Tracers and shadows, constantly since the last time I tripped nearly a year ago.

>>9541547
increase has a quantity change implication, modulate implies a qualitative change

>>9541547
>Im into science

>>9541560
I just mean there hasn't been enough research yet, and RIGHT NOW any real claims are probably none sense.

I didn't mean to imply that it is impossible to discover the mechanisms at play that result in bad trips.

>>9541431
Pretty accurate, actually.

>>9540496
Also accurate. The functional integration can help you think more divergently if you're able to parse through all the thoughts efficiently enough. You can be easily overwhelmed if you're not careful, though... it's best to start with a small dose.

Generally speaking psychedelics can be very useful, especially in people with screwy neural circuitry who need a bit of reprogramming. Addiction and depression are two examples of conditions where reprogramming the default mode network can effect positive change.

Psychedelics are not a panacea though and can break good circuitry just as easily as they can fix bad circuitry. It's good to have a guide with you.

>>9540496
>Thats why it expands consciousness
To say it expands consciousness without explaining what you mean by expand is something that you should not do.

>>9541286
>it's your actual brain without stimuli filtering
arguably a malfunction
The filtering of unnecessary information is very important to the smooth and effective operation of the brain.

>>9541302
>you really are interacting with other aspects of our multidimensional reality
There are many interpretations of the DMT experience.

>>9541379
best post in this whole damn thread

>>9541547
>to the subjectie effect of expansion
again what do you mean by "expand"

>>9541608
No it doesnt. But given a complex system. Changing gain parameters (quantitative) could cause a qualitative change. A good exampleis the evaporation of water to gas.

>>9541664
>what do you mean by expand.

I just mean peoples subjective experience. More specifically maybe ego loss. When the boundaries of self and world blur. This seems to be mediated by increased brain connectivity. Usually there is a central hub (like an inner city centre) which has way more connectivity than the rest of the brain. The suburban parts of the brain have less connectivity together and so need the core to coordinate them. They are rather autonomous. These are the areas responsible for things like implicit effortless thoughts, automatic behaviour like muscle memory and the very basics of perception. The city centre part is the one that empirically is associated with self, consciousess, memory, etc and the disconnect is probably an energy saving thing. Connectivity is costly.

In an lsd trip the connectivity between centre and suburbs maxes out. It might explain why on lsd people incl. Myself have a different and even greater clarity of perception because these basic implicit perceptual areas are now connected to conscious areas alot more. And i probably explains the sense of connectednss to the rest of the world.

Interestingly also areas of this city centre are associated with the positive effects of meditation too. Read one paper. This guy got damage to it. He experieced a month of no rumination peace of mind and bliss. These areas are also connected to mental illness. A burgeoning science will grow from it.

>>9541826
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0028393214000384

This one about the guy experiencing less rumination. Not explicitely bout the topic but in results and last part of the discussion.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982216300628

Lsd connectivity. Carhart harris specialises in psychedelics and neuroimaging so good way to read more. Empirical evidence isnt totally straight forward though. Some mixed results but the increased connectivity thing has been seen in other studies.

Havent read but notices be has a paper on context when tripping.
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0269881118754710

>>9541652
Just gna reference this guy coz default mode network he mentions is widely found to be part of this hub or city centre in my analogy.

>>9541311
You don't understand what "expanding consciousness" means. That is literally what a psychedelic experience does. It creates an alternative conscious state in the user (doesn't matter if you think it's a good or bad thing, that is factually what is happening), causing them to perceive differently and giving them an additional conscious state to draw experience from.

Someone who's never tried a single psychoactive substance in their life will only experience baseline conscious states like 'awake', 'asleep', 'dreaming', 'tired' or 'groggy', perhaps 'delirious' if they become sick. Extreme emotions like anger, euphoria, or panic can also be considered alternate conscious states as they can heavily effect one's thought processes. Psychoactive substances create additional conscious states for the user to experience like being high or tripping, or tweaking on stimulants, or being drunk, or even simply being energized like with caffeine. That is what "expanding consciousness" actually means. It doesn't have to be a positive thing, either. I'm sure no one here considers huffing glue to be a worthwhile time sink, but the state that it induces will "expand your consciousness".

>>9540334
I don't care what anyone says, the philosophical implications of the experience of LSD and presumably DMT are vast and impossible to accurately communicate through written language alone. I won't even try because any time I've done so on /sci/ I'm insulted and told to go back to /x/, but consciousness seems to be a massively variable parameter space that "exists", it's real, and it's not real in that the distorted things you're seeing literally map to anything in the physical external reality - but rather than qualia you experience are "real" in that they can be experienced. They can't be fake or you wouldn't experience them

Consciousness has far more potential than what our waking lives provide us with

>>9542419
Aslong asita described by science i agree. So much potential in this field.

>>9540359

>he doesn't believe in the importance of the subconscious

lmao take acid cunt

>>9541826
I would hesitate to call any of my psychedelic experiences "mind expanding" but if that is what you meant then I can jive with it.

why the fuck is this being posted in biz

>>9542757
>why the fuck is this being posted in biz

>>9541431
accurate as fuck, especially
>this is what hell is like
that was my exact thought during the most difficult part of my first acid trip. I felt like I was trapped in some sort of maze of my own thoughts and that I would spend eternity negotiating with myself inside my head.

>>9542853
>I felt like I was trapped in some sort of maze of my own thoughts and that I would spend eternity negotiating with myself inside my head.
Holy shit. I almost forgot that I experienced this exact same thing until you reminded me. I thought that I had always been inside of this maze and I only just realized it, and now I was cursed for all eternity to live in the maze instead of living in the pleasant delusion that had been my life so far

>>9542532
I only say it coz thats a lexicon ppl have commonly used. Its not scientific.

>>9542861
Same. Common experience. The anxiety is real.

Acid peak while swimming in river was quite an intense trip. A lot of anticipation just to get into the river but none the less ended up getting into the river and swimming underwater looking up at the sky through the water. Completely mesmerised and feels so amazing and unreal, Kinda floating looking up at the blues and ripples all intertwining and pulsing. Eventually something feels super wrong, imminent panic WTF im dying.... Finally remember I need to breath to survive. Swim for what felt like ages towards surface , break thru... Sweeeeeeet air FEELS GOOOOOD MANNNNNN

>>9540349
>it's not a harmful though, and the long term effects beyond psychological aren't noticeable
>>9541286
>>9540496
>>9541490

fuckng dumb bitch stoner

>>9542757
kek made me look

>>9540334
It increases the interconnectivity of brain sections, even between those that communicate very rarely. Someone who haven't done LSD can't comprehend that state of mind. And no, it's leagues above "dude weed lmao". Psychedelics are completely different from any other type of drugs.

Not glorifying it, any substance can and will have negative impact at some point. But taking a high dose say once every two years can be a healthy emotional reset, if you know what you're doing.

>>9540349
Every time I take LSD I wonder the same thing. But from what I can tell, it's increasing the speed/intensity with which your brain fills in information based on the patterns in your surrounding and your thoughts. That's why you get visual, sensory and auditory hallucinations. Also why your brain flows from one topic to the next in such an unorganized way.

>>9540334
sci is not the place for this degeneracy, go back to >>>/lgbt/ or >>>/tv/ for your drug discussion

>>9540334
As far as I'm aware it allows your brain to send signals to places it shouldn't and activates areas of the brains it generally shouldn't at that time. So a signal from the visual area will go to the area dealing with taste allowing you to "taste purple" or hallucinations will be triggered making the walls melt and your body pillowing coming to life and telling you all about how much of a masculine lover you are to take her dick.

>>9543617
It's definitely a scientific topic anon, stop falling for memes

>>9541336
That could have helped me a couple times when I was younger

>>9543601
LSD is a stimulant too so that's some of that speeding up. I have to have benzos on hand for after.
>tfw trying to sleep then exhaustion starts mixing with the remnants of the psychedelic mindspace and you don't know if you'll ever sleep again

>>9544607
Benzos are a great thing to have around in general.
Except when you get addicted to them and then you need to take massive amounts of it just to be able to fall asleep for a couple hours and when you inevitably get too lazy to re-up in time and run out you start having withdrawal seizures after the first day or so of no benzos and no sleep.

>>9543617

go back to /pol/

>>9540334
they dont know absolutely shit.
neurology as of today is almost a meme science, they have no fucking clue how the brain works.
If you take a look at the prospect in all psychiatric medicine youll notice that it always say that certain mechanism is "suspcted" to work on something, they have almost no certainty.

the truth is that the brain is an ultra complicated device and we are not very close to cracking how it work.

i mean sure, sooner or later well get it done, but i think most people severely misunderestimate how far away we are from completely understanding how it works

>>9540583
Is it accurate to compare getting high on marijuana to overclocking a cpu? I seen some people exhibit schizophrenia symptoms from strong marijuana for first time.

>>9540380
You don't know enough. You do enough LSD you will see things you do less mushrooms you won't.

>>9545255
No, not really.

>>9545144
neurology is a branch of medicine you retard

>>9541379

>>9541505
wrong. When i took shrooms and acid i literally jordanpeterson'd myself before he even started preaching.

>>9542853
>>9542861

I dont understand how this happens to people. Whenever I trip I get anxious sometimes but once I accept the thoughts the anxiety is gone

>>9543617
LOOKS LIKE WE GOT US A /POL/TARD, CALL THE BOYS WE FINNA HAVE A BARBECUE

>>9545783
If you are in scenario where the anxiety is allowed to proliferate it is almost impossible to avoid.

Try a forth of mushrooms in the middle of a city you have never been and try and get home.

The disorientation leads to panic leads to despair leads to withdrawal into the mind.

Obviously this is just kinda knowledge of thumb.

>>9545790
It pretty damn horrific to experience.

>>9545790
Holy fuck... That sounds terrifying yet appealing at the same time to me. I feel like that would literally be a way to emotionally and mentally condition/strengthen yourself by putting yourself in a situation like that.

psychedelics turn me into a horny sex fiend bastard

since we can recall past and future memories and imagine alternate universes are we not actually much higher than 3 dimensions

>>9545817
You can definitely come out with some learned strength. That being said, you can also just come out psychotic.

>>9545871
yolo

>tfw have never taken LSD

>>9545879
Psychosis was also one of the most exhilarating experiences of my life, but it can also be pretty miserable.

>>9545890
guess who can fix that

>>9545828
the fuck are you on about?

>>9541311
This lmao. Ive done literally every drug. Ketamine shrooms acid dmt mdma meth heroin in high dosages theyre all the same.

Anyone who doesnt stay sober will never be the greatest math in the world

>>9545893
WHO?!!

>>9540368
/thread

>>9545893

It is impossible to find where I am at.