/sci/ - Science & Math

A logician would be twice as far to the right as the mathematician is to the physicist

>>9448048

>>9448073
I still don't understand why engineers are after physicists.

>>9448077
This. They're literally computer science tier

>>9448048

>>9448048
Thats wrong. Psychology is not applied biology.

>>9448068
And a theologiser would be the same to the logician.

>>9448204
Yeah, but it fucking should be. We're currently at the alchemy stage of psychology, sociology and such - a bunch of useful heuristics and some hard data mixed with centuries' worth of dogma and misconception with no underlying theory to speak of. Soon enough neurology will break through and supplant this pseudoscience garbage, though. Give it a decade or two.

>>9448204

How? Your brain, hormones, and nervous system all affect your thoughts and feelings

>>9448368
Whoah, you don't say! Let me blow your mind: biology does not just affect your thoughts and feelings, your thoughts are literally a bunch of electrochemical signals pulsing around a net of biological cells!

Psychology is not derived from biology in its current state, it's an empirical mishmash. But as we learn more about how the brain works it ought to get supplanted by something derived from neurology.

>>9448077
>>9448135
>>9448200
>ass blasted pure meth fags

>>9448135
Wrong, since computer science is exactly the same tier as mathematics.

>>9448612
Actually I'm an engi

>>9448135
how dare you

>>9448077
engineer here. because there was free space. you are welcome.

>>9448135
Don't get it twisted there boy. We might be cocksuckers and are obviously more applied than physicists, but we are definitely more scientifically pure than CS. Engineering is applying physics into design. You can consider us as the end-user of physics. CS are the end-user of a very narrow subset of engineering; digital I/O systems. They apply these designs.

>>9449370
Kekekek, you seem to think CS is electrical engineering.

>>9449388
No, I didn't say that at all. It's applying EE designs and building abstraction layers on top of that. As you are clearly a CS, you could compare it to a protocol stack. We are below you and above physics.

>>9449370
No it's not, you fucking nigger. CS has nothing to do with whatever the fuck "digital I/O systems" are. Hang yourself mate.

>>9449398
It's 100% not.

CS is below math above physics

SOC <PSYCH <BIO<CHEM <PHYS <gap <CS <MATH <gap <Logician <Philosophy <Theologian

>>9449407
You just proved my point by stating you don't know our lower stack terms.

A computer, a router, a hard drive, .. are I/O systems. Everything you will do in CS is write a program that will give inputs to digital I/O system which will translate this into digital output itself.

>>9449421
If CS would be purely theoretically study then you are correct. It would then just be a field of mathematics. However, a very limited amount of courses in CS are purely theoretical, most are very applied. I doubt you formally defined Java in mathematical terms before you start learning how to code in it.

Don't get so defensive btw, being "pure" doesn't mean "objectively better".
>inb4 the eternal mathmajor

>>9449440
CS programs aren't coding
I don't even code. I spend all day studying formal logic, sets , number theory, automata, languages and other shit. I don't think I've taken a class where I wasn't writing proofs

>>9449446
What year are you in?

>>9449449
3rd

>>9449451
What uni?

>>9449453
Place so small I'd dox myself by saying it

>>9449456
Okay then, for the sake of argument I will just assume that this post >>9449446 is true and by "languages" you mean learning a complete MATHEMATICALLY FORMAL definition of the programming language in question. The same should be true for any talk about any physical component you have ever learned about; they should all have been defined by MATHEMATICALLY FORMAL models. I find that extremely unlikely, but ok, if that's the case, you are correct..

>>9449472

That's the thing anon. There aren't any physical components. CS isn't engineering and doesn't try to deal with the real world in anyway .

I don't understand why you're so determined to prove me wrong. This is what CS is. It's Math

Engineering is applied science so realistically it's a gap to the left of sociology as it tries to apply everything previously but of course engineers wouldn't be happy with that

>>9449475
I'm not determined to anything. I am more than willing to yield if someone convinces me.

I just said I agree with your line of thinking. The only thing I expressed is my doubt that everything is mathematically formal. If you know you aren't lying about that, then surely you must see that I'm agreeing with you.

>>9449484
>implying sociology is a science

https://vimeo.com/118188988

>>9449440
CS is nothing to do with writing code you mongoloid cunt.

>>9449489
Cool so you disageee? Thanks .

>>9448048

>>9449489
Your wilful ignorance isn't anyone's problem but your own. Go back to playing with your wires and plugs, you fucking autist.

>>9449507
Dude, I literally am so willing to admit I'm wrong that I asked for you uni and year to check your books.

Whether I believe something is just my feeling and completely irrelevant. I'm not saying "I'm right and you are wrong", I'm saying "If A is true than you're right, if not than you're wrong. I haven't seen proof of what A is and don't claim to have it. I'm simply stating my subjective believe of what I think it is, which again, is completely irrelevant.

Only thing that matters is the proof. If you could show me your curriculum and I could have a look at a book of what I would consider to be the most applied, I could see what A is. Until that point what do you expect me to say?

>>9449525
Jesus, I must have really struck a chord. Good job presenting evidence that counters my position though.

>>9449527
Well it's true . Stop disagreeing so vehemently ? Do you enjoy picking on the little guy?

Incredible how you faggots turned a potentially good thread (comic editing and stuff) into a war between different areas that will ALL die jobless and with no gf.
Nice one, /sci/.

Dumbass gender pandering comic. I have literally never met a decent female mathematician.

>>9449531
I AM NOT DISAGREEING

I am simple stating I don't believe something to be true. I'm not saying it isn't true, If you can't understand the difference between the two than that's doesn't speak to your point. I'm saying I don't know until I see the proof of every CS course being completely mathematically rigorous. If I see proof of that -or lets say even a strong indication of that by the experiment defined above- I would say "ok, now I KNOW you're right". Until that moment, I don't know, but doubt you are.

>>9449370
>You can consider us as the end-user of physics
No, that's really philosophers

>>9448060
fpbp

>>9448048
>tfw 99% of /sci/ always makes the same mistake with these edits of confusing abstract vs. applied with good vs. bad
Just because designing rocket ships is cooler than being a physicist doesn't mean physics is applied engineering.

>>9448748
You can blame shitty confused CS programs for nobody understanding this. Schools have been focusing so much on producing a steady stream of low quality code monkeys, that everyone's forgotten what CS even is anymore.

>>9448748
>being the meme

>>9449421
>CS is below math above physics

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>>9450477
hes right you know. cs would be holding hands with math

>>9448077
Read a history book and find out about the engineers like Heaviside who invented modern E&M or Prandtl who invented Fluid Mechanics and realize """physicists""" have only done the trivial stuff.

>>9450479
see >>9450472

>>9450484
?

>>9448073
computer science isn't a real field. it's a fun hobby that people in real fields partake in. some can make it their job, but if you're not good at other fields you won't be able to do much more than you are able to do with most hobbies. Fun and games.

>>9450472
>thinks all of CS is algorithms
>doesn't know about type theory
>much less homotopy type theory, the likely future foundation of all mathematics
t. stemlet

I really grew to hate XKCD

>>9450501
>homotopy type theory

t. I learned a big word on Wikipedia without any working knowledge of it.

>>9450501
> implying homotopy type theory is taught to CS majors
> implying set theorists do not exist
> implying that it makes a difference to most mathematicians whether set theory or homotopy type theory is used.

>>9450516
Yeah, it was pretty bad before this shit, but that's where I stopped reading it.

>>9450526
>implying that what's taught to undergrad majors is more important than what the actual researchers in the field produce
>implying set theorists are the only ones that matter
>implying that work in the foundations of mathematics is no big deal because it isn't """applied""" enough yet

go back to your stats class Rajesh

>>9450516
Yeah, that comic is where Randall jumped the shark for me. Even if he wanted to tell people specifically to vote for Hillary because he believed the Nazi Trump meme (which is why I'm assuming he made a comic telling people who to vote for this election and not for any previous one), it would have been one thing to give an honest appeal on how she was the lesser of two evils, or how bad he thought Trump would be and how people needed to vote to keep him from winning. But shilling that corrupt, amoral, pretend liberal shitbag with her campaign logo and slogan was bullshit, it made him looked like a partisan ape.

>>9450524
actually, it appears you learned it on an anime image board. why you lie anon?

>>9450479
cs is just applied discrete math

>>9448060
'More Virgin'? Just make it say age.

>>9450562
What? Mathematics is a subfield within Computer Science.

>>9450824
>look mom I posted it again

>>9450562
>numerical analysis is discrete math

>>9450831
how is the sign inside the bottomless pit?
is it an infinitely tall sign?

>>9449459
No formal system can be both consistent and complete. For any formal system you will be able to derive a paradox like "the set of all sets".

>>9450865
>No formal system can be both consistent and complete.
False. Consider Tarski's axioms of geometry.
>For any formal system you will be able to derive a paradox
False. Consider the axioms of a group. The order-2 cyclic group is a model of these axioms, therefore there are no paradoxes/contradictions in this formal system.
>a paradox like "the set of all sets".
False. NFU is consistent (i.e. paradox-free) while also having a set of all sets.

>>9450904
Tarski's theory lacks the expressive power needed to interpret Robinson arithmetic.

Don't be coy.

Gödel's incompleteness theorems show that any sufficiently strong recursively enumerable theory of arithmetic cannot be both complete and consistent. Gödel's theorem applies to the theories of Peano arithmetic (PA) and primitive recursive arithmetic (PRA), but not to Presburger arithmetic.

>>9450834
Well the pole is not parallel to the bottomless pit.

>>9451041
Assuming it's a straight line.

>>9450904
btfo

>>9451040
btfo

>>9451148
How? The post he replied to was correct everywhere, and literally nothing in this post contradicts it.

>>9451222
Neither did anything in the post he replied to contradict what the other post said, despite him claiming the statements to be false. They weren't false, just imprecise. The same way his was.

Hence, btfo.

>>9451231
Since neither one specified what sort of formal systems they were talking about, they were both idiots.

>>9450501
This. Brainlets from shitty universities ITT will never understand that math is a minor subdiscipline of CS. Pic related.

>>9451244
Fuck off Wolfram, your book is shit.

>>9450556
yes between the two of you randall is the one who looks like the partisan ape
please tell me why there are literally never any reasonable criticisms against hillary clinton, just screeching and namecalling

>>9450516
>>9450540
He turned out to be right though? What am I missing

>>9450834
You can brace things against walls you know.

>>9450465
>parseInt('crap');
>parseInt('crap', 16); // 12
What the fuck is their issue with this? They're mad the 'a' isn't included? If you parseInt('10 niggers') do you expect to get 10+sqrt(-1)?

Is this the thread where the failures all pretend they're successful because they majored in some field that they barely understand the majority of?

>>9450556
Stop posting your walls of text, /pol/. Hating Hillary != Liking Drumpf

>>9449370
>b-but im a software Engineer!

Makes me think

>>9448371
>as we learn more about how the brain works ...

The motto of psychologists

>>9451283
>why there are literally never any reasonable criticisms against hillary clinton
[Citation needed]

>>9451283
you mean like the stupid screeching and name-calling everytime Trump so much as tweets something? I didn't even vote for him, much less actively support him, yet it's always been clear as day that his half assed shenanigans are nothing compared to a candidate that was literally under MULTIPLE FUCKING FBI INVESTIGATIONS during the election campaign. Nevermind all the shady shit she pulled in Haiti, or the Benghazi bullshit. And that's not even getting started with the stuff in her leaked emails, much less the history of all the dubious shit surrounding the Clinton Foundation. That woman is literally staving off a prison sentence, and you're asking for """reasonable""" criticisms? Oy vey.

>>9452433
>I didn't even vote for him, much less actively support him
buuuuut
>it's always been clear as day that his half assed shenanigans are nothing compared to a candidate that was literally under MULTIPLE FUCKING FBI INVESTIGATIONS during the election campaign
yeah no one's buying your shit

>>9452436
right, because there were obviously only 2 candidates running in the last election...
gtfo brainlet

>>9451283
She voted for the Iraq war and the Patriot Act. Changed her opinion on health care after receiving money from the industry.

Just to mention three.

>>9451283
Read her emails.

all fields are different endeavours. you can't arrange fields by purity as the theories and subject matter of the fields are incommesurable with each other.

>>9450815
t. more virgin

>>9448060
This is bretty gud

>>9451366
How the fuck does 16 + crap = 12 you stupid nigger.

That's the fucking problem.

>>9451464
>Being literally inquantifiable.

>Jej

>>9451253
tfw I bought that book

>2 days old
>nobody posts pic related
wew another board overtaken by underage newfags. what a shame.

>>9453410
not him, but I'm guessing JS is treating the string length as a number

>>9451286
Gr8 b8 m8. I r8 it 8/8.

>>9453476
That's why you wear a condom

>>9453494
kek

>>9452449
Libertarians are just republicans who smoke weed anyway.

>>9452452
>millions of republicans who did that, yet Le enlightened gentlesir doesn't whine about them

Wow brainlet, partisan much?

>>9452480

>Le pizza

Now I know why 4chan has a rep for being stupid

>>9454372
>>Le pizza

Are you retarded? The leaked emails had a lot of damaging stuff in them.

>>9448048

>>9452252
underrated

>>9450815
it says age dicknuts

>>9453494
300k is pretty achievable if you become an actuary
maybe not starting, but achievable

>>9454372
Why do you think I wouldn't whine about every single politician who did the same? Why do you assume partisanship without evidence? Are you looking for enemies?

>>9450497

>I'm routinely typing and communicating with others around the planet on a device that's all like fun n' games n' stuff

>>9450497
sw development makes me more money than pure math cucks

>>9450516
>>9450540
>one comic mentions politics of an overseas country
>ignore it
Gee was that hard for me
Though it's sad xkcd is moving from the maths, computers and science jokes to plain absurd-based humor