/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9428341
You'll find plenty of supporters in /pol/.

>>9428341
I think they're evil but because of monopolistic, draconian business practices that should be illegal. Not because I believe GMOs are evil
I also believe this to be true for companies like Coca Cola, mass media outlets, ISPs and other similar companies

>>9428341
They make money at the expense of other people's lives and ways of life. They also won an award for being the most evil corp one year. 2nd place was the Federal Reserve. Not much of an award considering who was awarding it.

>>9428341

>>9428362
Pretty much this.
If anything, working on R&D means providing safety in the long run, even if it means being part of such an unethical company.

>Allows their pollen to blow into random farmers' fields
>Successfully sue those farmers for patent infrigement
Yes theyre evil, and I hate them for giving GMOs a bad rep

>Convince 3rd world farmers to replace heriloom varieties with GMO varieties
>Oops, those GMO varieties we sold you are sterile, you have to repurchase them
>Oops, your countries laws allow us to do this
>Oops, you can't afford to re-up
>Oops, your whole family starved to death

Look at their legal track record of interacting with people and the horrible injustices they strive for when allowed to run rampant. Do you really want an entity like that having a monopoly on the food supply?

>>9428392
>things that never happened

>>9428466
>Oops, those GMO varieties we sold you are sterile
Never happened. Where do these urban legends come from and why are you spreading them?

>>9428341
>Is Monsanto evil?
No.
>Are GMOs evil?
Nope.

Monsanto is a corporation that does corporate things for corporate profits. Even if you disagree with them they aren't evil. Unless some serious shit comes out like it did for cigarettes and slaughter houses I wouldn't get too worked up.

>>9428621
>Monsanto is a corporation that does corporate things for corporate profits
evil corporate things*

>>9428621
>Patenting food
>not evil

Fuck off shill.

>>9428341
if what they did was legal then no not really

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-complete-history-of-monsanto-the-worlds-most-evil-corporation/5387964

>>9428658
>not understanding the value of the patent system
No you fuck off.
If you don't like the rules then change them.

>>9428667
Not him but just because I don't have the power to change something, that doesn't make that thing not evil.

>patent food
>people in third world countries starving
>can't give them food because monsanto will sue and remove them out of business while making money
>people continue to starve
>lol oh well corporate business

>>9428341
They are just as "evil" as any other company. They just got Caught red handed.

>>9428384
> everyone who disagrees with me or fails to defend my points is a SHILL!!!!!

I dont like Monsanto but im pro GMO. Your image is fucking ridiculous.

>>9428341
They are just as "evil" as any other company. Just think about the shitty work standards Indians have to go through to make your one time use plastic bags so cheap.

>>9428341
They are just as "evil" as any other company. Just think about the shitty work standards Indians have to go through to make your one time use plastic bags so cheap.

Jyst of monsanto is that they patented and claim to have specific gene sequences for crop that they hold the rights to. Instead of the time old tradition of harvesting crops and keeping seeds for growing the next harvest, monsanto instead pretty much successfully demands that everyone who buys their seed must buy it for life, that seeds cant be replanted from harvested crop, and they can somehow proove when your crop is their seed.

Given the absurdity of successfully patenting naturally occuring gene sequences, having their patent validated and upheld by courts, charging yearly for seeds and disallowing replanting, it's just too far fetched to represent a real, logical practice and instead makes more sense as some jewish lie, one of many.

I know firsthand that "genetically modifying" anything is not something that actually happens and is an actual lie of self-imposed confidence by erratically prideful people, so that of course extends to being just another piece of the ongoing bastardization Monsanto represents against logical reasoning to jew farmers out of their livelihoods all towards god knows what awful result; so if you actually have an interest in "GMO", keep at it until you see the curtains fall off the rafters. You really wont believe the amount of bold faced lies that dominate western society until you see them for yourself.

>>9428667
To be fair, the patent system- well, the legal system at large is facing a huge, unprecedented strain due to the advent of genetic engineering.

The notion of patenting genes is still a little crazy- the implications are kind of weird and there's no system really set in place for easy litigation regarding genes and IP law.

t. Law student who majored in molecular bio

>>9428749
>I know firsthand that "genetically modifying" anything is not something that actually happens

English is not my first language, so forgive me here, but this looks like you're trying to say that genetically modification is a lie.

>>9428778
You have to go back.

>>9428711
>charge money for food
>people in third world countries starving
>can't give them food because farmers will not give away food for free while making money
>people continue to starve
>lol oh well farming
Farming is so evil!

>>9428341
The only evil thing they do is collude with government to price out competition.

It's a fault of the United States government tho that such practice is allowed.

>>9428466
Simply false

>>9428392
That's just the organic industry's propaganda. I can't believe how effective it is for for a multi million or billion dollar industry to trick people that their competition evil, and they are good little angels.

>>9428778
Don't worry it's pol runoff. They don't understand how the real world works.

>>9428749
No plants have been patented decades before GMOs, large scale farmers don't save their seeds anymore GMO or not, because it will be a huge pain to store all those seeds, and they want constant crops, especially with hybrid breeds (something different then GMOs) which loose their properties after you plant the seeds from the hybrid plants. Also a Farmer could just quit and pick some other seed verities.

>>9428341
>is it just a brainlet meme
Lrn2meme fgt pls

>>9428621
Seriously shit did come out. Round up which they created and spray causes cancer and the workers are covered in it. There's also a correlation to birth defects to worker children because of it.

Only first world retards complain about Monsanto's supposed evilness. These retards have 3 meals a day and perch on their ivory tower and whine about unsubstantiated slight increase in cancer risk in products which would feed extra 5 billion people.

FUCK ANTI-GMO PEOPLE. RETARDS.

>>9429474
Please link your sources. Thanks.

>>9429515
We don't need 5 billion extra people.

>>9429531
We have about 800 million starving people right now. If you insist on antinatalism, then you possibly can agree to feeding currently starving people without increasing the population yes?

>>9428341
>lets just freely modify people's food, who cares if we accidentally make a long term disease that kills millons? money and "efficiency" is the only thing that matter

Be a good goy and eat GMO, so you can be my little guinea pig, meanwhile I will keep eating organic until these GMOs have been tested in all the good goys

>>9429551
>le paranoia meme
schizophrenia is cooler

>>9429559
>smart risk hedging is paranoia

Why I would risk myself wheres theres literally no gain in eating GMOs?

>>9429515
How fucking lazy are you it's a simple Google search and there's millions of shit on it

>>9429559
> cancer is mutated cells
> eating mutating cells isn't cancerous

>>9429531
Industrializing the third world decreases their population. Do you want them to keep having 12 kids?

>>9429567
Please take Biology 101

>>9429562
Ok, glyphosate is carcinogenic, however...
>GMO food DOES NOT produce glyphosate. It's sprayed on them.
>It's less dangerous than smoking according to IARC
Conclusion: Anti-GMO people are still fucking retarded.

>>9429583
this man, even the pesticides aren't bad anymore
people think we're still spraying DDT on crops or something

>>9429560
You are likely eating GMO's even with the non GMO label slapped on it. Companies pay for that label to hike up the price. The food industry cares about profit not your health. It's funny how Americans are scared of that but totally fine with eating diseased, and deformed chickens that are pumped with antibiotics and hormones to keep them alive long enough for slaughter. The only reason there's salmonella in chicken is because they are so tightly packed together during their lifespan.

>>9428341
their GMO investments are primarily to sell their special brands of highly carcinogenic pesticides and herbicides, monsanto denies this and silences independent researchers because they know that the public would not want to consume anything that has been sprayed with roundup if it were known to cause cancer and defects.

>>9428721
>t. monsanto shill

>>9428724
>The direct reasons for the building problems were:
>Building built on a filled in pond which compromised structural integrity,
>Conversion from commercial use to industrial use,[38]
>Addition of 3 floors above the original permit,[39]
>The use of substandard construction material (which led to an overload of the building structure aggravated by vibrations due to the generators).[38] Those various elements indicated dubious business practices by Sohel Rana and dubious administrative practices in Savar.[24][40][41]

I think GMO has a great potential to advance our civillization, but humans are ignorant idiots and care only about short term gains. If they can make wheat that grows 5x faster then they will immediately use it everywhere without doing necessary long term research of its impacts on human health only to discover 10 years later cancer rates have tripled.

>>9429611
You are just further proving my point in how shitty the standards of ethical treatment towards workers are. I realized I posted the wrong image of the Savar collapse in Bangladesh instead of the recent Ludhiana one. However it's the same concept of how companies look for offshore factories to produce their product. Do you know why this romper is three dollars? Because companies like Primark don't care how their clothes are manufactured. They don't mind trading in safety of their employees for a few extra dollars in their pockets. These companies are the ones that aren't enforcing building safety codes on their factories. It's simply because they don't want to spend more money. The same goes for the fact that Indian factory workers are still mistreated and underpayed.

>>9429611
You are just further proving my point in how shitty the standards of ethical treatment towards workers are. I realized I posted the wrong image of the Savar collapse in Bangladesh instead of the recent Ludhiana one. However it's the same concept of how companies look for offshore factories to produce their product. Do you know why this romper is three dollars? Because companies like Primark don't care how their clothes are manufactured. They don't mind trading in safety of their employees for a few extra dollars in their pockets. These companies are the ones that aren't enforcing building safety codes on their factories. It's simply because they don't want to spend more money. The same goes for the fact that Indian factory workers are still badly mistreated and underpayed.

>>9429597
this, non-GMO stuff still has GMOs in it sometimes
I have personally tested this on one product

>>9429655
But no one gives a shit about some poos. Also they themselves treat each other like shit (literally) so why should foreign companies treat any different?

>>9429573
Industrialization increased their population to begin with. And the Earth can't support every 3rd world nation becoming industrialized

>>9428362
this

>>9428466
https://monsanto.com/company/media/statements/terminator-seeds-myth/
>Muh evil corperations
Real life isn't a shitty 80s movie kid

>>9428341

Weren't they bought by a german company recently?

>>9428392
the only times they sued people for that were cases where the farmer noticed the pollen had blown in and used pesticides to select for the resistance trait and then kept the seed

so, yes, they were sued for willing and successful patent infringement.

>>9428749
>that seeds cant be replanted from harvested crop
almost all agriculture in the united statesis performed by enormous corporate farms who don't save seed to begin with. they buy the seed completely new every year even if it's from a normal non-gmo seed supplier.

>>9428711
>Muh monsanto controls le 3rd world meme

>>9429776
>https://monsanto.com/company/media/statements/terminator-seeds-myth/

Except that statement is based on a non-disclosure agreement.

>>9429793
>Except that statement actually means I'm right lol
Sorce or shut the fuck up

>>9429782
>>9428848
just lying on the internet like that. What does it accomplish?

>>9429822
http://www.thefarmersdaughterusa.com/2016/02/no-farmers-dont-want-save-seeds.html
>Although people associate the prohibition of keeping seed and reusing it the following production year, the reality is that this practice went out the window with the advent of hybrid varieties in the 1930’s.

>>9429551
>accidentally make a long term disease
How?

>>9428341
You have to get a good job to repay all that student debt. Evil or not, you might not have a choice.

>>9429560
>Risk
There is zero risk relative to anything else you do all day, hypocrite.

>>9429567
Conventional food has much more mutations than GMOs.

>>9429826
The reality is its still an age old tradition practiced around the world and you're staring straight into the illogical double-barrel of the sawed off jewgun proppee up by monsanto. Using your brain shouldn't be this difficult, it is excessively easy to deconstruct lies and propaganda. Seriously, who do you think you are?
Re-think it and keep it to yourself.

>>9429850
>provide someone with facts
>"lol no you're still wrong"

>>9429857
Facts? My man, thats a really retarded way of seeing the world. https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org
I can post URLS and claim facts too.

Really though you're operating at sub-insect intellectualism if you honestly believe harvesting seeds to replant is something that is somehow alien or verboten to agriculture. You just might have done one too many whippits.

>>9429867
>if you honestly believe harvesting seeds to replant is something that is somehow alien or verboten to agriculture
I believe the farmers in the United States themselves when they say they don't save seeds.

>>9429620
Problem with that logic is that each new gmo has to be exhaustively tested before going into food production, whereas crossbreeding and even radiation to induce mutations has less regulation despite being more dangerous.

>>9429867
It's generally a bad idea to reuse old seed these days because there is such a high chance of getting dud seeds compared to just buying them new. I live next to a farmer.

>>9428835
I hate organic companies even more. At least GMOs themselves are good.

>>9429914
You live next to a farmer who buys from monsanto.

>>9429902
i can't find the article anymore but five or six years back there was a case of someone who bred some varieties together to make a pest resistant crop and something in the hybrid was so nasty it was giving the harvesters chemical burns

plus like, consider allergies. nobody bats an eye at peanuts being grown or sold even though there's people who will literally die if they eat a single peanut

>>9429902
>crossbreeding and even radiation to induce mutations has less regulation despite being more dangerous
and how is it more dangerous?
mutations and radiation usually affect only a single or a few genes, GMO allows you to edit the whole genotype as you wish

>>9430239
With GMO they can predict to a limited degree what the mutations will do.

With random mutation from crossbreeding and radiation it's literally completely random and utterly unpredictable.

Obviously a situation where we have a small idea of what will happen is better than a situation where we have zero idea what will happen.

>>9428663
Seems like a pretty biased source, but I'll give it a read.

>>9429597
>the virgin chick vs the chad hen

>>9428341
Assuming OP was not just trolling, which is a huge assumption, the qualities of the various answers in this thread ought to tell him what he needs to know.

>>9430239
Random change is less predictable than controlled change.

>>9429938
>cites article he can't produce

So, on to the next thread.

>>9429869
>I believe the farmers in the United States themselves when they say they don't save seeds.

I believe them when they say they don't, because it makes less economic sense to save seed than to buy new seed. So of course most will not, other than "look at me I'm organic and natural and shit" specialist farms that use how old fashioned they are as part of their marketing.

If the discussion is about the moral of corporate practices then fuck off to /his/ or /biz/. If you want to discuss GMOs their effects and thr like, lets change that. Let me start with my position. No GMOs arent bad for you.

>>9428341
Evil is a social construct, just live life.

>>9428341
>>9428362
>>9428362
>>9428362
this, the only real risk of GMO's currently is lack of genetic diversity. Corn would not exist without GMOs

also any idea what kind of cropduster that is in OPs pic?

>>9428341
>""has an eye on monsanto""
>can't even be assed to google what makes people think they're evil
kys

>>9428341
They actively genetically modify seeds to produce sterile offspring for no other reason than to force hardworking farmers to buy more seeds every year, instead of being able to continue a lineage of crops from the seeds of last years harvest. It not evil, though it is an extremely jewy practice. I blame capitalism more than monsanto. They are just very good at playing the game, its not their fault the goal of the game is “fuck over the little guy and grab as much money as possible before you die”.

Not more evil then any other company who bows to Mammon.
The problem I have with Mosanto and the entire agricultural sector plus politcs at large is the practice to only rely on the few certain breeds. There are so many different ald fruit and veggie breeds that have all sorts of different demands for habitats and sometimes even contain more nutriens and in general also taste better.
Yet they all are thrown to the side in favor of uniform and pleasent looking, max shelf life crops that will be thrown away way before turning bad anyway.
The entire system is sick and bad, but because whereever money is there are powerful interest behind them. Not that they are mustache twirling evil just to destroy biodiversity, they just want money. Still not great imo.

>>9429534
People aren't starving for a lack of food or agriculture. It's a problem of economics and logistics.
We have so much corn that the government subsidizes it and puts it into everything because you've got to do something with it.

>>9432962
I don't know anon, its easier than ever to get organic foods, find local co ops, local sourced places that specialize in heirloom and hipster fruit and veg.
And honestly, if you've got a yard there's absolutely no reason you shouldn't have your own seasonal vegetable and herb garden where you can grow whatever you want. Even if it's some frankenfood cherry tomato it's still going to be better and fresher than store bought.

I work for Syngenta, but in the chemicals side of the company so I don't know much about the seeds business. I guess I'm in some way partly to blame for turning the frogs gay, but I don't work with that specific chemical either. Pesticides and GMOs may be bad, but there's no way we could support our society without them so I don't lose sleep over it. I'm really glad Syngenta doesn't have nearly as much name recognition as Monsanto, though.

>>9432224
>They actively genetically modify seeds to produce sterile offspring
Wrong, retard. Try again and this time don't just make shit up.

>>9428341
Mostly brainlet meme. They indeed try to monopolize the seeds market by making their products unfertile and forbidding farmers to make their own crop selection as they have done for thousands of years.

But about making "unsafe" transgenics, those are only anecdotes and poorly made research, like the guy that "proved" that Monsanto corn caused cancer by feeding corn to rates that were bred to develop cancer to be used in cancer cures research without control groups.

>>9433173
>when you are a shill but cant back your shit up
Look it up. Im sure you will find some conspiracy shit out there but if you sift through all that garbage you will find that its the truth. I know farmers that deal with this problem first hand.

>>9433234
>They indeed try to monopolize the seeds market by making their products unfertile
read the thread

>>9428354
>You'll find plenty of supporters in /pol/.

slander

Monsanto's pesticides are in every single person's body on Earth

D-did they ask permission?

>>9428390
>working on R&D means providing safety in the long run

Lol this guy

Your research? tl;dr

>>9428341

As someone who is planning on getting a PHD in Quantitative Trait Genetics I have my eye on companies like Monsanto.

t. BS, Ag, employed state and federal Dept. of Ag., R&D, Genetics.

First of all, working for Monsanto sucks. You won't be telling your friends, if you have any.

You won't be getting laid. You'll be getting paid to run protocol R&D.

The real money makers at Monsanto are on the business side. The lawyers especially.

If you are doing R&D at Monsanto you literally failed at life.

>Every normalfag and Media person keeps telling me that this company is evil but I am not sure exactly what they do that is evil.

They killed unknown number of persons by causing cancer and lied to cover up research proving the connections.

Monsanto, the Ag producer and promoter: Literally terraforming planet Earth... into losing 10% of its forests per year / similar magnitudes of insect plant and animal life loss. For corporate and government clients, ofc.

>Are they actually bad or is it just a brainlet meme?

At some point most smart people realize that brainlets don't traffic in memes

This shit is real.

Monsanto is the evilest company on the planet.

>>9433140
Even organic food from indistrial agriculture is more often then not a modified breed. In the EU only breeds get allowed to trade which have a certain same result in appearence. Small local breeds often don't stand a chance getting approved since the result is a bit to random/naturally diverse.
>And honestly, if you've got a yard there's absolutely no reason you shouldn't have your own seasonal vegetable and herb garden where you can grow whatever you want
One would think that, yet reality still looks different from this. People have forgotten how to sustain themselfs.

>>9433234
Nah. Farmers often want to buy new seeds every year for the convenience, consistent genetics, and the seeds from hybrid plants lose the properties of their parents.

>>9428471

No, that did happen

>>9432224
No, it's a huge pain to organize and store seeds for next year, often farmers plant hybrids breeds, the seeds from hybrids lose the properties of their parents, it's just the way genetics works, not some design. Also there is no terminator seeds. If the farmer doesn't want Monsanto seeds he can use some other seed company's breed.

>>9433990
>some other company’ breed
Except they cant because other seeds literally cant compete with Monsanto. Its very difficult farm profitably without using Monsanto seeds without marketing yourself as organic non-gmo to appeal to hippies. And you are foolish if you thing that Monsanto doesnt use terminator seeds. They dont use the GURT technology associated with terminator seeds that was deemed morally wrong and made illegal. Theres more than one way to skin a cat.

>>9433988
No it didn't, since you left out crucial details in order to distort the facts.

>>9433294
>Posts idiotic claim
>Demands that his opponent proves it
So you admit you were lying, good.

>>9434110
>Except they cant because other seeds literally cant compete with Monsanto. Its very difficult farm profitably without using Monsanto seeds without marketing yourself as organic non-gmo to appeal to hippies.
Why are you lying? Do these companies sound like they market organic seeds?

DuPont
Syngenta
Groupe Limagrain
Land O' Lakes
KWS AG
Bayer Crop Science

Because they control almost double the amount of the seed market as Monsanto.

>And you are foolish if you thing that Monsanto doesnt use terminator seeds. They dont use the GURT technology associated with terminator seeds that was deemed morally wrong and made illegal. Theres more than one way to skin a cat.
You still have not provided a lick of evidence that Monsanto uses terminator seeds.

Can someone please explain why these retards think they can just come onto the science board, lie to people's faces and get away with it?

>>9433376

>Violation of NAP intensifies

>>9434337
Bayer owns Mosanto now btw

>>9428341
Look at the whole Monsanto lawsuits things on wikipedia. The guys who got sued had like over 50% of their fields being GMO crops from Monsanto.

>>9429515
3rd world country fella here, we dont like monsanto either and you can keep It for yourselves if you were so kind

>>9434337
>Can someone please explain why these retards think they can just come onto the science board, lie to people's faces and get away with it?
For the same reason that people IRL do it.

>>9429776
>https://monsanto.com/company/media/statements/terminator-seeds-myth/
>https://monsanto.com
hmmmmmmmmmmmm

>>9432224
Why the fuck would you want fertile GMO seeds. You're a fucking retard.