/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9395576
give us actual statistics or fuck off. you claiming something does not make it so.

>>9395583
100% - 3% = 97%

>>9395583https://harvardmagazine.com/2017/01/low-income-students-harvard

>>9395576
Well that's the whole point really, college is very
expensive now that the price has inflated over the
course of the past two decades.

>>9395585
>97%
is that the percentage of reported statistics which are actually made up?

>>9395586
Thank you.

>>9395594
No problem, and ignore >>9395585

So you just realized that higher education is a class filter? They don't want poor people and they have no reason to take them.

>>9395576

Its just not true. I know two people that went to Harvard and both were pretty smart, and not rich or connected, etc.

Harvard does a good job that way and this is a well known fact

>>9395597
>>9395596
>>9395583
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/12/13/making-harvard-feeder-schools/

>>9395597
>and not rich or connected

Your definition of "rich" is probably skewed. What do their parents do?

>>9395576
yes, fuck poor people. next?

>>9395600
>11% of the schools sent 32% of the students

you realize that article doesn't help your case.

>>9395576
There is a great book about this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coming_Apart_(book)

>>9395607
"In total, one out of every 20 Harvard freshmen attended one of the seven high schools most represented in the class of 2017—Boston Latin, Phillips Academy in Andover, Stuyvesant High School, Noble and Greenough School, Phillips Exeter Academy, Trinity School in New York City, and Lexington High School."

Poor parents don't send their kids to those schools.

"Poor" in Harvard standards means your parents make like $40k-$60k

Below that you aren't even on the radar.

>>9395616
Goes back to the poor kid whose mommy and daddy combined make $22,000/yr and attend a crap high school. Kid was rejected from Harvard at birth, doesn't even matter if the kid has a 130+ IQ. There is too much of an offset to overcome that.

>live in 1st world country (France)
>have preparatory classes
>very cheap to enter
>start almost from scratch so you don't need to come from the best high schools
>200% meritocratic
>sadistic syllabus: basically like having 2 majors and 2 minors at the same time
>selective competitive exams: you get the school you deserve, period
>zero debt, elite education
Feels good to have an academic system made for the 97.725+th percentiles.

>>9395635
From an American, I am extremely jealous.

>>9395576

Harvard isn't omnipotent. If smart people fall through the cracks that's just part of the game. The only way that would hurt Harvard is if those people that slipped through the cracks happened to discover something great or become big names in industry, because then Harvard loses an endowment opportunity or reputation boost. But there are plenty of other schools that also look for ability.

I would like to see a histogram of all NSF funds recipients in the field of physics holding academic professorships at USA universities binned according to the name of the institution in which they earned their PhDs.

>>9395643
I saw something similar:

IIRC it showed academic mobility, i,e, it showed where the professor got a PhD and then what school they went on to teach at.

It ended up being like 20 schools that dominated the academic field. There was little upward mobility (i.e. receiving a PhD from lesser school and teaching at an elite school). It was mostly academic in-breeding / lateral cross breeding rather

>>9395643
>I would like to see a histogram of all NSF funds recipients in the field of physics holding academic professorships at USA universities

https://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/

How about you do it yourself, you lazy fuck.

It is not true that PhDs at Harvard all come from Harvard, Princeton, MIT, etc.

>>9395613
Stuyvesant is a public school nigga. Why are you surprised that kids attending a magnet program get into Harvard?

>>9395613
In other words, OP overstated the situation massively. You don't "need" to have attended one of these schools, but it probably helps.

>>9395613
my friend from staten island told me stuyvesant is mostly asian children from immigrant families :/

>>9395576
It's not Harvard, but I got into a top 10 PhD program from a state school ranked well below 100. And I transferred to that state school, from a community college well below that. And I got into that community college from a noname, rural, high school. Dream big anon, it can happen.

>>9395694
nice anon. how did you go from the state school to a top 10? congrats!

>>9395576
I came from a low income, broken household in an American rust belt town. My first and closest friend growing up and I were both of well above average intelligence and we both tested into a 'gifted' program by scoring higher than two standard deviations on the Stanford-Binet scale when we were in elementary. His dad was an engineer and eventually became a lawyer, mom stayed at home. This afforded him the opportunity to go to private schools, participate in extracurriculars and build a network. He moved away and is now at Yale Med and I'm sure he's conquering the damn world. My mom was a social worker for the state, got raped by the recession, and my dad was a drunk who couldn't hold a job. I grew up bitter and angry, I stopped caring about grades or my future in high school and sold drugs and focused on chasing social status instead. When you're poor, your time horizon shrinks to zero. I definitely have recovered, am now an engineer with a ladder up in the automotive industry. My experience has taught me that most poor people are poor because they are dumb or lazy, and those who are poor by circumstance can almost always climb out of poverty if they have the tenacity to do so. Rich people are usually rich because their parents were rich, no surprises there.

>>9395576
You're speaking out of your ass. People from third world countries get into harvard PhDs if they are dedicated

>>9395694
>>9395705
I went to phd at northwestern. md/phd candidates were usually from sate schools where it's easy to get a high gpa (like ohio state, kansas state)

if you know you want to go into academia its best to go to a normie tier undergrad and do research on the side

>>9395597
>that's not true because i know 2 people :)

you're retarded.

Low income white students are fucked and never get in. Other races do.

>>9395749
the amount of poverty in whites is also disproportionately smaller than other races.

>>9395753
And trump still win

I mean, I'm going to Penn for undergrad and I'm lower middle class. Went to public school. Magnet schools exist guys.

>>9395806
magnet schools tend to be feeders into top unis and populated by upper middle class to upper class kids.

>>9395806
>Penn

Penn doesn't count.

>>9395823
Nah. That's not true. Magnet schools are public. And mine in particular has over 70 percent classified as economically disadvantaged. It's just smart kids from the city.

Graduated from an intercity highschool with a ranking of 1/10 ranking on great schools. I come from an incredibly poor family, I actually sent some of the money I got to pay for books and food back to my family because they needed it. Got a full scholarship. I am a heterosexual white male, who is not an athlete btw. I just worked hard, took AP's, did really well on all my tests and got good grades, pretty much just fucking worked hard in school. And yes, being poor actually helped getting in, those of you with a brain already know why

For PhD its pretty easy, you can find a work/internshop in a top lab for a year (even if your undegrad was shit) as a research tech, get a strong letter or two from PIs and thats usually is enough to get to top 5 PhDs.

>>9395839
orphans and extremely poor graduates are always prefered by CEOs because they know that these guys will work like horses 24/7 and not say a thing

they need to prove themselves constantly that they are not worthless etc etc

there was even a study on this kind of thing

>>9395613
FUCK YOU LEXINGTON HIGH SCHOOL

>>9395839
Are you from Maryland?

>>9395832
You don't count.

>>9395576
>Does Harvard and those schools not care about poor people?
does anyone care about poor people ?
this is capitalism baby
shit money or off yourself

>>9395893
new jersey

>>9395898
Thank god. For a second I thought you were some miserable faggot that I knew. Glad to see you doing well in your studies.

>>9395576
I went to a high school with plenty of poor people and my friend got in to MIT (not poor though) so it is possible. Also, you dont need to go to those top schools to get into them for PhD anyways. Trust me when I say my university is pretty shit in my field (EE), but recently graduated students (past 4ish years) have gotten into MIT, Stanford, UIUC, UMich, Purdue, (all top 10 for EE) and many more top 20, 30 etc. Just put in hard work at your current high school, undergrad uni, or wherever you are, and you can get where you want to go.

>>9395635
>elite education
>(France)
Pick one

>>9395576
Harvard not only accepts low income students, they give them full grants to attend. All you need to do is have the entrance grades, and apply. Problem is most people never apply, assuming they can never get into Harvard or can't afford it. So they go to a state school and get ripped the fuck off with student loan debt.

They aren't at all biased, people themselves are biased thinking they can't get in so don't try. Harvard makes money from patents on research, paid for with public money, in the billions per year so as a result grant away most tuition unless your parents are scrooge rich.

It's not Harvard's fault that poor people are usually dumber. A top university should get only the best. If the best are usually not poor, so be it. Excellence trumps all. Please don't follow Brazil's example. Today a brazilian public university approved quotas for transgendered people in graduate school. Our research is shit, so now we have to accept more dumb people beucase of their skin color or sexual orientation. The West is falling apart. I want to know how many quotas exist for dumb poor people in top Chinese colleges.

>>9395839
This is what some dont understand for top unis: most scholardships are need based and not merit based. If you and your parents are poor the unis will probably dish out plenty of money. My cousin is at MIT for some engineering and she got some good ass aid as her parents have a lowish income and couldnt possibly afford to help her much financially.

Also good job anon. I hate seeing people make excuses for shit and not just work hard for their goals

>>9395978
>>9395987
The exception does not make the rule.

>>9395997
It is the rule. All top schools have need based scholarship. you have no idea what you are talking about. poor people dont get in because they are usually dumb, NOT because they cant afford to go

>>9395997
It's the rule. They accept regardless of income, mostly on academic merit.

It just so happens that capable parents are often wealthier, and they raise more capable children.

>>9395997
Harvard only cares about which top students are most likely to make them the most money in patented research, they could give a fuck where you are from if your highschool grades are near perfect you're in.

Any highschool student that spends one extra hour per day learning on their own from academic texts in Grade 11 and 12 is going to be years ahead of any typical student, have a near perfect GPA and easily get into Ivy League on a full scholarship.

>>9395576
Black people get into Harvard for no reason other than that they are black.
Affirmative Action and diversity quotas are very much a thing.

>>9395576
...Why would you go to an expensive university if you don't have money? You can either be self taught if you're that poor or go to community college and get good marks that allows you to get a scholarship to transfer to university.

So much information hasn't been this available for free before this era we live in. Anyone says otherwise really has no excuse.

?

>>9395642
Its not about "smart people falling through the cracks" its the deliberate discrimination against whites at all levels

>>9395576
No shit they kinda have to. Academia doesn't really pay well itself these days so it's not like the high-end academies can lift all the poor out of poverty.
It is extremely difficult for a poor person to afford doing years of undergrad AND grad school with no reliable funding that can change at the whims of politics.

>>9395576
Everything is biased against the poor.

Poor means cheap, shoddy education which means basically be rich or kill yourself.

Geographical location can be a big thing too (I am from upper-middle class and was educated in a shitty town filled to the brim with dirty retards and this held me back greatly, because my parents are stupid christcucks who believe equality is a thing and that socializing is important, so my spending time with niggers and arabs would be a great asset to me, as opposed to study useful stuff like maths in a quality environment)

This is all contrived by kikes pushing their agenda. God, I hate kikes so much, I hope a fourth Reich comes up and they burn in hell as it should be.

UK system is great.
Oxbridge don't give a shit about extracurriculars only rich people can afford, all that matters is your academic prowess.

That's why despite being poor AF I study a STEM subject at Cambridge.

It's still harder to get in than if you grew up rich because you have a worse education growing up, but it's a hell of a lot better than the US system.

P.S. I'm black and Cambridge doesn't have AA so cry more racist brainlets

>>9396378
>me nigger me big boy iq me no dum dum

haahhaahahah

>>9395576
Heres the reason, whether you like it or not OP

1: IQ is genetic
2: IQ is the number one predictor of success in life
3: Therefore poor students come from poor parents who are poor because of a low IQ

Sorry, but there are more rich students at good schools simply because they are smarter.

>>9395635
>france
>elite education

>tfw fell for the privilege meme and didn't apply to any top unis despite getting A*A*A*A* at A level and being by far the best person academically at school

Has anyone else done similar?

>>9396400
t. brainlet

Academia is extemely biased in many regards.

t. PhD in applied math with a lot of experience in publishing

P.S.: I'd tell you, young people, more, but I don't want to ruin your expectations and demotivate you

>>9396378

you could actually get cucked out of cambridge solely due to going to the wrong school when they were still using ums a few years ago.

>submit very good coursework
>classmates submit shit coursework
>teacher at school overmarks coursework
>classmates coursework gets called for moderation
>everyones coursework gets marked down

This happened to me and I didn't apply in the end because of it. I got 100 percent in my science exams but my coursework got massively moderated down to low C's which completely ruined my chances. Submitted the exact same work next year with different teachers who marked it more accurately and got over 90 in it.

I'm not sure how common this is or if they're aware of it and compensate but it seemed like complete and utter bullshit at the time.

>>9395832
No? Why not?

>>9395686
the city magnet schools are the only things their parents can afford to send their kids to
most upper middle class long island schools are equally as competitive but there are just more underachievers in those

Gucco gang gucci gang gucci gang gucci gang Gucci gang gucci ganv

>>9396456
jesus christ, what a fucking shit teacher

>>9395989
Chinese literally kill themselves to get into the uni.
Joao come to Argieland, if you're in STEM or medicine, you'll have a place between us.

>>9396454
>I'd tell you but I won't ;)

Have you considered suicide yet?

>>9395576
wow it took you this long to figure.
honestly, this should be common sense to anyone who has a hint of sanity

>>9395983
>>9396422
t. Americucks that go to state schools where they unironically teach remedial math and precalculus
Also, in debt.

>>9396378
>Oxbridge don't give a shit about extracurriculars only rich people can afford, all that matters is your academic prowess.
I see someone hasn't noticed all the postgrad rowers at Hughes studing shit like Land Economy

>>9395635
>1st world country (France)

Most large institutions place universities in a tier system. If you didn't go to Stanford or MIT it's fine, as long as you went to a "tier one" school. For almost every organization, tier one schools encompasses at least the top 50-100 schools in the country. If you didn't go to Yale that's fine, as long as you still went to a school like Purdue or UC Davis or Florida.

t. someone who's done recruiting for government positions in science.

>>9395726
I did my undergrad at NU and I saw the same thing with pretty much all of my TAs across the board.

>>9395576

Say it with me.
>IVY LEAGUE

>>9396015
>>9396030
No it happens that you can get a 4.0 and have taken all the AP courses at your poor high school and still not get in, because the kids from better high schools already have 30 plus credit hours in college cojrses, stellar EC and recommendation letters from high school teshfers with PhD in addition to research edperience. Don't pretend like poor high schools have the same oppertunities. The 4.0 GPA poor kid that just took AP calculus because that's all their school offered gets rejected by Harvard

>>9395989

>I want to know how many quotas exist for dumb poor people in top Chinese colleges.

Not sure about top colleges but China definitely has quotas for non-han ethnic Chinese minorities. This is on top of the fact some of them depending on the province do not have to pay taxes.

>>9395753

>>9395753
and some data from Harvard

>>9397949
>>9395753
Combine with this data to see that whites are smarter than asians at Harvard. That is with way more athletes being white. "But! But! Muh Liberal Narative!"

I'm poor, from the middle of no where, and go to Harvard. They gave me money to go there. 10/10 school, have fun talking trash from your community college internet connection

>>9395839

Your school had AP courses? Mine didn't have any (very rural).

>>9395987
>>9396030
>whuh awe statwistics

Oh no, life is unfair.

Poor people have a harder time going there. Sure. But it can be done by hard work and determination. Saving every dime one earns, excell in school and so on.

>>9396030
Wealthy families can give their kids more opportunities though. Also unless you can throw together a sob story, a school like Harvard isn’t going to give a shit that you worked full time all summer when Applicant B spent their time working with disabled kids. Lower middle class people really get fucked over by the current process.

>>9396378
Congrats dude, I hope to go oxbridge for postgrad to do Zoology with a first from birmingham.

What do you think my chances are?

>>9395613
>Lexington High School
Must be pretty hard to get into that public school.

>>9395635
lol

>>9398060
I-I didn't even know that was possible in the US. D-Did it at least have IB courses?
I'm so sorry anon.

>>9398060
Not him but that's why "the if you're smart doesn't matter you're poor you can go to Harvard with a 4.0 anyway" is false.

Kid from my HS scored a perfect score on the SAT and was rejected from harvard. My HS is a basic 4H club, rural redneck school.

>>9398546
Also, I went to an average state school. I don't think I had the stats to get into an elite school despite a high unweighted GPA. Not because I am dumb, but because my HS is incredibly bad. I also graduated with a below 3.0 GPA which pretty much killed my chances of getting into a good grade program, except I was accepted to a top program and declined it.

I ended up working for several years and re-entering a top school to redo my undergrad studies and prep for a PhD program.in a different field. This school is much higher ranked and well known than my initial school. Im acing my courses there and by good fortune I am starting to get noticed by professors at this school and another elite school that is nearby. My chances of getting into an elite graduate program has dramatically increased since being at this top university and excelling. I always knew I was really smart and am now just beginning to prove it.

As stated, I aced every class I've taken at this top university, but I know that I wouldn't have been admitted tonit to begin with straight out of HS and that isn't because I wasn't smart, but because I went to a rural redneck high school.

Doesn't matter now, I learned even if you are poor but smart people will notice you of you fight for it.

>tfw third worlder
>tfw "white"
>tfw middle-class
I have no chance of getting into a good first world school, do I?

>>9398604
>middle-class
>I have no chance of getting into a good first world school

Jesus fuckin Christ. These /pol/ memes need to fucking stop. But no, yeah. You have 0 chances. But you see that black kid that every day asks for food on the streets? That fucking starving orphan will get a full ride to Harvard. Of course. I mean, that is how reality works. Money? Wealth. Bah! Who needs that. There is no way you can get a good education with money. Everyone knows you obtain a good education by not being white and by being poor. You got it all figured out, man.

>>9398546
Kids with perfect SATs are rejected from Harvard all the time. It's not a poor thing. That's just how it works. When you can fill an entire class with people who have perfect scores, you start looking for something else: like kids with interesting personalities, or once in a generation talent. These kids have close to perfect stats and actual interesting things to write on their application.

>>9398626
I didn't say that nigga. It means I'm average. I have absolutely nothing to give to the school aside from what I can work. But I don't stand out among the rest.

>>9398626
Ivy league is very restrictive on the amount of international students they accept. These slots are typically reserved for extraordinary students or those with extraordinary stories, and anon is neither. These schools are literally looking to finish a puzzle and only one piece will fit. It doesn't matter if one piece is painted prettier or is made of nicer material, the one that fits is the one that gets the acceptance letter.

>>9395635
>France
>Elite education
Kek

>>9395576
>Harvard

>>9398674
>I have absolutely nothing
Yeah, you do. You have money. And guess what? Universities accept money! Crazy right? I too used to think that you paid college by tearing off your black skin and paying in melanin but no, they even accept credit card! Crazy right. I never knew that you could buy stuff with money.

>>9398690
Guess what. I'm also from the third world and me and all of my wealthy private high school friends went to the US and study at top universities, simply for paying top dollar.

Let me tell you something. There is this one guy who is a cool person but in terms of academics, he is 100 times more stupid than I am. Well, guess what? He is at a higher ranked university than me. Just because his parents had more money than my parents. And of course, good for him. But he is living proof that money fucking talks so if you have money you have 0 reasons to be crying about anything. If you are a middle-class baby then please go ahead and trade your life with some poor single mother child who has to live on food stamps.

>>9398731
Friend, I said I'm middle-class in a third world country. That means I can't afford to pay "top dollar" to fet into those places.
Getting a scolarship as an international student without being a prodigy? Not likely at all.
Also, calm down lad. /pol/ ain't here

>>9398811
>That means I can't afford to pay "top dollar" to fet into those places
Yes, you can. You are stupid.

Let me give you the modern definition of middle class. And please tell me if your parents fit this description. You are a middle class person if you have enough money to be able to take out as many loans as you want while easily being able to settle with any bank that you will just pay them X% of your paycheck from your stable and mid/high paying job, while at the same time having that X% removed from your paycheck each month still not affect your livelihood at all, which means you can still easily pay for food, rent, internet, electricity, water, going out, etc.

If you are middle class then you fit that description. My mom takes out huge fucking loans to do whatever the fuck she wants and all she has to do is tell the bank "I will give you this percentage from my bimonthly government job income. This means that the only way you can't get your money back is if the fucking state collapses."

Odds are your parents are in that position. And you know it. Stop crying. You can get anything you want in this world. That is literally why banks exist. Stop crying.

>>9395576
What is the fucking point of this post? No shit families with superior social and economic status yield children with superior economic and social mobility. What the fuck do you think affirmative action was created to combat?

>>9398830
>while at the same time having that X% removed from your paycheck each month still not affect your livelihood at all, which means you can still easily pay for food, rent, internet, electricity, water, going out, etc.
>You can get anything you want in this world. That is literally why banks exist.
What the fuck.

>>9395635
France is a laughingstock where the average education sucks balls and where the education inequality is one of the highest worldwide in spite of the low cost of going to uni. This speaks volumes on how shameful this shitty country is.

>>9398830
>You are a middle class person if you have enough money to be able to take out as many loans as you want
i'm lower class then and was my whole life and i'm getting a PhD right now.

>>9398884
>i'm lower class then and was my whole life and i'm getting a PhD right now.
are you me?

>>9398868
My point is that
Do you need a house?
Take a bunch of loan money, get your house, and pay comfortably in small payments that don't even hurt you.
Do you need a car? Same
Do you need to send your kid to college? Same.

It is all good. Seriously, a payment of a couple hundred bucks per month is nothing to a middle-class household. And if you are sketchy enough just play politics in your company and raise your salary every time you take out a new loan. Who cares. You have the money. You have the power. This is how shit works. If you are in good terms with your boss you can literally tell him "My retarded son needs to go to college so I plan on taking out loans. I need a raise in order to keep my finances stable." and they will agree.

>>9398884
That is good for you. Your kids will now be middle class so you should take this advice whenever your retarded kids turn out like >>9398604

>>9398908
>taking a loan to get a car

>>9398909
Well, I mean. Saving up is obviously the better option but there are many financial institutions that will let you do small payments on the car with some interests. It is not like taking a loan because you are never getting money, the company just pays for the car themselves and waits for your payments. But it technically works like a loan. This is especially useful if you want to get a car that is slightly above of your league for status and pussy.

>>9395576

Dallas County schools suck even by Alabama standards; of course the shittiest high schools in the country arent going to have many students attend Ivy League schools

However, they could easily go to Auburn, Alabama, other schools in the UA system, and then transfer to schools like Georgia Tech after they have an established academic track record

>>9395576

A better question: why do you think attending Ivy League schools is required to rise in socio-economic standing?

>>9395983
>>9396422
>>9397881
>>9398537
>>9398726
>>9398872
>Pointing out the average education in response to a comment about the 23% of the top 14.6% that didn't dropout within a year of their sadistic higher education
>Strawmanning this hard to comfort your insecurity about ruining your family just for your pathetic community college diploma in experiment monkey science
Fucken tears of post-hoc sour grape rationalization taste so good...

>>9395576
I'd rather be middleclass than going to this cuck shed

>>9399273
It really is a joke of an institution now. I know that some good research still gets done there, but as a whole, it is shit.

>>9395576
Is there anything that isn't biased against the poor?

>>9396378
>cry more racist brainlets
racism doesn't really exist

>>9399510
Great. I'm glad you think that /pol/. Meanwhile, let me keep tweeting about #killallwhites

>>9399310
This.
How long before alumni is embarrassed to say they went to a school like Harvard, Princeton, Yale, etc. that reduces educational and intellectual requirements to become more PC and dull the standards?
Why would any prestigious academic institution deny a smarter individual with more potential solely because they don't "need any more" of that type of person?

>>9399524
This and the same culture is anti-intellectual at its core. Much of Harvard is basically doing religious apologetics for liberal democrats and SJW culture. It isn't real academic study.

>>9399522
>let me keep tweeting about #killallwhites
We know that this comes from enviousness more than anything else. They grew up and spent most of their existence having a chip on their shoulder.

>>9395839
>8.02 over 8.022

>>9395839
While I congratulate you on your accomplishments, I do have a question. How can someone who got an A in Probability and Random Variables at MIT write this post on this subject and think it means anything?

>>9395576

I'm pretty sure Harvard and other elite universities have affirmative action for poor students and students who come from a rural area.

>>9398533
It is actually. Not sure if your from the U.S or not but the difference of living in an area where you're zoned for a good school school or an average school (let alone a bad school) can cost upwards of several million dollars depending on area. My uncle literally had to fork over a extra couple extra 100k to move down to street so his kids would be in a better school zone.

>>9397951
Serious question....

How come the jews are generally better educated than your average person? Is it a cultural things or is there really a genetic difference?

>>9398546
I scored perfect SATs and I was rejected from top unis because I fucked up the rest of the application like an autist

>>9399973
>Serious
>generally
This isn't a serious question.

>>9399989
I have another serious question....

can you eat my ass?

>>9398975
A kid with a 140 IQ from Dallas county would still get rejected from Harvard due to cultural upbringing. But they would likely be accepted to auburn, Alabama and Georgia tech. But Harvard would accept a less intelligent but more culturally enriched middle upper class kid over the 140 IQ kid from Dallas county. Peelple on here don’t understand that and have no idea how much of a disadvantage it is to come from dallas county. An IQ of 140 and a perfect SAT score wouldn’t even offset that disadvantage. >>9398638
People like this don’t even understand

>>9399875
Not really. They reject them because their ECs don’t match up to rich kids ECs. My friend from a rural HS was rejected from Harvard despite having a perfect SAT score and wasn’t told he lacked ECs. My rural HS didn’t provide ECs

>>9400210
Probably because schools dont give a shit what your iq is, and they only care about the SAT insofar as its a paintlicker test.

>>9400775
You missed the point. a 140 IQ kid from middle of no where Alabama will be discriminated against because their college application will look very poor compared to a northeastern prep kid, that may even have a lower IQ. The point is, a smart poor person that could goo to Harvard won't because they are disadvantaged by the high school they attend.

>>9395576
Nah you are fine if you are a whore kid of some genius raised in a socialist country too.

Actually it is a really big business model. The socialist country gets to spread the illusion that kids of poor parents can succeed and the rich capitalist country to which they go will be happy that they are the beacon of freedom they pretend to be.

Quite clever actually.

>>9395576

Nepotism and connections. Not what you know but who you know and the case of a lot of these people it's who their parents know. Ivy league is 99% for the children of wealthy people. You don't even need to necessarily be "smart" just have average grades and have daddy make a phone call.

No, academia is biased against those who can't reach success in any respect, rich or poor.

don't you think that improving the general quality of public education is more important than fixating on a few private universities?

>>9399973

Genetic

Higher average IQs in Ashkenazi groups

Other Jewish groups that score closer to average aren't as successful. IQ is everything.

>>9400810
Yep they'd be better to go study in Europe.

>>9401009
more important for whom?

>>9396404

Pretty accurate but there's more wiggle room than that

>>9401009

so that you don't NEED to go to harvard or yale to reach your potential?

>>9401024

for the many people who have academic interests but can't or don't want to go to harvard.

see
>>9401026

>>9401026
> muh potential

That's not what it's about. It's about the rich families tied to those establishments who want the smart transplants to cuddle up to them and prove themselves.

>>9396440

I doubt that you did that and if you did, you can always just apply the next year.
You are an imbecile if you don't apply to Oxford or Cambridge, Durham, Warwick etc with anything above A*A*A

Have you thought about suicide yet?

>>9399535
>I'm worried about taking this class on Martin Heidegger. Wasn't he a Nazi?
Even philosophy has turned into shit at Ivy Leagues. People are literally afraid to think for themselves if there's the slightest chance it will take them somewhere unsavory. I don't think any of these faggots will ever realize the irony of avoiding uncomfortable topics while studying philosophy.

>>9401064
>smart transplants

what do you mean "smart transplants"?

>>9401155
That is pathetic. I guess we never went to the moon either because "Nazi scientists".

>>9399854
just goes to show there are academic drones and those who truly understand

My prof & friend (he's 32 and we've kept in touch since I graduated and started my PhD) grew up in a bumfuck town in the middle of nowhere, they didn't even have traffic lights. His dad also died of cancer when he was a toddler. He went to Harvard for his PhD and did his post-doc with a Nobel laureate.

My anecdotal evidence trumps your speculation, get the fuck out of here OP

>>9395576
That's because the postmodernist Jewish scum that run "higher education" brainwashing centers like Harvard and Stanford know who's the easiest to prey on. "Top 10" colleges are all fucking scams.

That's just a burgerland problem.

>>9395717
>My experience has taught me that most poor people are poor because they are dumb or lazy, and those who are poor by circumstance can almost always climb out of poverty if they have the tenacity to do so.
Sounds right.

>>9395806
"Bristol welcomes you with open arms! Manchester longs to have you! You can walk right into Leeds!"

>>9397914
Which is why if the student had to work through high school, they fully include that in their sob story, or they demonstrate the tenacity Harvard is looking for by actively pursuing extracurricular activities out of their way.

>>9402665
They just need to properly fill out the applications, pretty much every student fucks this up even though there are guides galore for doing this.

Even if you don't have top of the top grades, you can still get into Ivy League just by filling out the fucking application(s) correctly and on time. Most people do zero due diligence and just kind of half ass shit, or expect somebody to do it for them and then are immediately defeated when rejected, never bothering to retry which often can get you back in.

>>9397945
>>9397949
>>9397951
"Dean Frederick Scheetz Jones of Yale (Class of1884)...: 'I think we shall have to change our views in regard to the Jewish element.... A few years ago every single scholarship of any value was won by a Jew.... We must put a ban on the Jews....'"
"Harvard, Yale, and Princeton [circa 1920] thus faced a painful choice: either maintain the almost exclusively objective academic standards for admission and face the arrival of increasing numbers of Jews /or/ replace them with more subjective criteria that could be deployed to produce the desired result. Their decision to do the latter was a great departure from their historic practices and bequeathed to us the peculiar admissions process that we now take for granted."
---The Chosen: The Hidden History of Admission and Exclusion at Harvard..., pg. 75 & 76

>>9399973
Both.
Historically, Jews were persecuted because of their religion, so had to work hard to pass on their traditions. That involved teaching all children to read, in order to study the Torah.
They were also confined primarily to white collar work, which requires higher mental faculties to be proficient at. Over time, intelligence in the Jewish population was more and more selected for. Hence why today Jews are practically the smartest race in the world.
>>9401015
Yes it matters which lineage you're talking about.

>>9397951
>>9402691
And it case you missed my point, it's that it's very likely high numbers of Jews are at Harvard and other top schools because of greater aptitude to make it there, as opposed to some nepotistic conspiracy for which I doubt any /pol/lack has evidence.

>>9402691
>>9402694
Did you even bother looking at any of the data? Because there is a ton of data that Unz collected and it all points to the opposite conclusion: jews are overrepresented because of nepotism. Many jews have admitted this, but say there is no conspiracy, that yes jews are dumber than average, but that is because they primarily get in through alumni admissions.

>>9398638
this
along with some legacy admissions

>>9399524
>>9399535
I go to a small liberals arts college that has been well regarded for many years but I fear for its future given the present, a culture of intellectual inadequacy and irrelevant focuses. If it continues and I come into some big money in my career, I very well won't consider donating.

>>9402699
>I very well won't consider donating.
Good. I agree. I went to a school that demands SJW bullshit for grad school admissions in every subject, even math and physics. It won't get a dime from me as long as this goes on. And I love the school and wish it would do well. But these authoritarian SJWs need to be ripped from power.

>>9395576
This is only in le 56% land. In the UK, as long as you make the grades, you have the same chance of getting into Oxbridge/Imperial/LSE as any posh schoolboy.

However, my favourite is the continental European system. Anyone may enroll for whatever degree they want at ETH Zürich or TU München or whatever, and actually passing the classes and finishing the degree is the part where the elimination is done (e.g. at the ETH, just under 50% of every freshman Mech Eng class makes it to the second year)

>>9402696
Yes I did look at the data. Did you want me to read the source articles? I'll do it if you think it's necessary, but I don't.
>Because there is a ton of data that Unz collected and it all points to the opposite conclusion: jews are overrepresented because of nepotism.
I will evaluate this claim in terms strictly of the data you have thus presented.
Starting with your pic related. Jews have been found to be smarter on average than every other racial group in verbal and mathematical capabilities, rivaled only by East Asians.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3190562/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence
Cochran, G., Hardy, J. and Harpending, H., 2006. "Natural history of Ashkenazi [intelligence." Journal of Biosocial Science, 38(5), pp.659–693.
Historically, there was a racial bias against admitting Jews into clubs. An alternative explanation for the drop in PBK inductees could be a renewal of discrimination, and not a drop in ability.

At any rate, you've presented no proof, nor do I think you can, that Jewish Ivy Leage admits have declined in ability compared to their predecessors.

>>9402701
I see the rampant SJWism as a symptom of a larger issue, which is declining standards in intellectual achievement. Only stupid people would fall so deep into such misguided beliefs, and not just that, be completely unwilling to see reason or any dissenting opinions.

In my case, I think admitting less stupid people will allow for rational discourse to still take place even if you still have political extremism like SJWism being a fad among the student body. That way, it will be more easily stamped out.

>>9402710
>At any rate, you've presented no proof, nor do I think you can, that Jewish Ivy Leage admits have declined in ability compared to their predecessors.

So you didn't look at the data. Jews have declined as a share of PBK winners at Harvard from 31% to 11% while remaining the same share of the population. They are, and have been for decades, 25% of the student body. So, yes, jews used to be smarter than average and now are much dumber than average. This data was in two of my posts you have "responded to".

Now you will probably go google for debunking articles still without looking at the data. You are basically doing jewish apologetics. It isn't a good look. And I am done talking to someone who is so blatantly disengenous.

You're right, OP. Let's do something about it.

>>9402713
>declining standards in intellectual achievement
SJWs literally claim these are racist. Honestly congress is going to have to cut off Federal funding to non-STEM (+econ and a few other) fields. It is only a matter of time.

>>9395635
Not really no. The same principle is applicable to France as well. Who gets into X and the A class of Engineering schools? People who were in the top HS in Paris ie people from upper to middle class families and children of the X and Centrale Paris alumni.
Don't pretend our system isn't flawed.

>Be me
>live in third world shithole with big dreams
>country was colonized by France
>hate French with passion and always get shit grades
>still controlled by France
>pass baccalaureate and rank 15th in the country
>not high enough to get a presidential scholarship to Germany
>get one to classes Préparatoires in France
>Muh irony
The French are so fucking haughty and obnoxious about the "elite-ness" of their Engineering schools considering the highest ranking School here barely appears in the top 100 internationally

>>9402778

Somewhere in North Africa I'm assuming?

>>9402781
Unfortunately.

Dude, lower class people could afford mini mansions right now if it wasn't for the fucking kikes inflating the dollar with them printing more money in existence with the federal reserve and creating more money with fractional reserve banking, the middle class could affrord palaces.

>inb4 someone shills the brainlet meme

>>9402778
Go form a university in your own shithole then you retarded fucking shitskin.

>>9395576
If anything being a poor oppressed demiasexual self identifying dorito with a dozen self diagnosed mental disorders actually helps your chances.
pic related rly mks u think

>>9395635
>200% meritocratic
Not really
>you get the school you deserve, period
Not really

Then again, I'm not going to say it isn't a great system; it works, but that doesn't mean it's flawless.

>>9401130
Can't apply next year when I'm 2 years into uni. And yeah I realised it was an exceptionally stupid decision after about the first year of uni, but fell for all the bullshit my parents told me, they insisted I wasn't smart enough for any uni until after AS levels.

Although I am definitely going to apply to the cambridge part 3 physics course (final year of undergraduate physics there) next year.

also
>you can always just apply the next year.
Only normalfags with a decent home life can do this, I had to find somewhere to live as soon as possible.

>>9402718
https://handbook.fas.harvard.edu/book/prizes
>Phi Beta Kappa
>Phi Beta Kappa is an academic honors society committed to the promotion of scholarship in the liberal arts and sciences among the students of American colleges. Alpha Iota of Massachusetts at Harvard, founded in 1781, is the oldest chapter of Phi Beta Kappa in continual existence. Undergraduate members, selected from a pool of candidates with the highest cumulative numerical grade point averages in their academic divisions, are elected on the basis of their scholarly achievement and breadth of intellectual interest. Twenty-four juniors are elected each spring, forty-eight seniors are elected each fall, and in the final election, before Commencement, a sufficient number of degree candidates are elected to bring the total membership to no more than ten percent of each graduating class. Students elected to Phi Beta Kappa have typically chosen the most challenging courses available, pursued independent research as part of an honors concentration, achieved excellence in coursework across all academic divisions, and attained outstanding grades in all courses.

So let me break down how you are wrong based on the info in this paragraph.
>1. Awards are elected and not distributed automatically.
>2. Awards are elected by peers.
>3. Awards are given out on a subjective basis, initially filtered based on GPA (and not IQ)
Given these facts, it's possible that you could see less Jews being admitted due to less effort being put into schoolwork by said Jews, or discrimination against Jews for initiation. There's no guarantee that they get in less because they are dumber than their predecessors were. Dumbness =/= "Laziness".

Thanks for wasting my time, ignoramus.

>>9403032
Oh, forgot to mention, that there is a cap on the number of people you can admit to the society each year. That's very important. If they had racial quotas and were unable to fill them with suitable Jewish candidates for the Jewish quota, that might be worth looking at. But we haven't access to that info.

I acknowledge also that it's ambiguous here whether peers are the ones electing initiates.

>>9402718
>>9403032
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2017/11/27/pbk-senior-48-2017/

One final note. If you take a look at the names, you can see that Jews have more competition racially now than they did in the past. It's not just whites, east-Asians, and blacks, but now too hispanics, south-Asians, and who knows else.

It could be that electors actively seek out diversity, which might lead to a declined preference for admitting Jewish candidates.

>>9403032
>>9403034
>>9403041
t. Schlomo Goldbergsteinwitz

Was actually getting into an Ivy league university easier 50 or 100 years ago, considering the smaller competition?

>>9396378
oxbridge undergrad is still heavily stacked against people from comp/non-private schools due to interview prep, they have a VERY long way to go still. Probably better than the US though

>>9395839
I was in your analysis class!

>>9403567

that would make sense but I guess personal connections were a lot more important then than now.

>>9395576
Then do an insurrection. oh right, you're a little bitch.

Just give the principal a secret masonic handshake and they will let you right in

>>9400810
No, im fully aware of the point. I agree with it in principle as I am >>9398848

My contention is that its a moot point. The majority of the American public doesnt give a shit about anyone but themselves as individuals and are too retarded to realize that bettering their society betters themselves. Ergo the changes that would need to happen to create a truly meritocratic selection system (re accessibility to high quality public education and extra curricular content) will never happen as there is no way you are going to convince the masses to fund it. They wont even pay tax for basic infrastructure and think that its fine the very wealthy should pay proportionally less tax than the poor.

>burgers STILL havent figured out that universities should be free for those who need them

>>9405139
>US will collapse before burgers figure out a proper education and social system

>>9405139
t. Lenin

>>9405343
t. the rest of the developed west as well is the issue

>>9398533
nokids detected.

>>9402691
Damn. I'm still wondering how christians got manipulated so easily by jews into becoming such cucks. As a redpilled individual coming from a christcuck family this angers me to no end. These jewish cunts need to be ushered out of the west.

>>9399825
>Assuming a non-course 8 (probably 18 from 18.600 & 18.100B) would take 8.022
Not everybody wants to spend extra time on """rigorous""" intro physics classes.

>>9395586
>Another notable finding: poor students at top colleges do virtually as well as their higher-income peers after graduation, at least in terms of how much money they earn—a rebuttal to the popular “mismatch” theory.

So you can pay an extra million to make your resume more impressive, but it largely wont matter in terms of earning potential Harvard students getting cucked out of their money, confirmed.

>>9403032
>>9403034
>>9403041
Seeing you trying to worm you way around a straight forward argument has to be redpilling for many readers.

>>9398542

No it didn't have IB courses. Why would it have those if it didn't even have AP courses? It was a rural school. When I was growing up we only had 1 teacher for every 3 grades, too. Can't really do much when you have <10 people in each grade. I went to a larger school for highschool though, but it was still like 50-70 people per grade and no AP anything.

>>9396049
Applying to college right now, this is entirely incorrect. I had perfect grades in high school and did academic research at a prestigous university, got rejected from MIT.

>>9395576
Please, you just need to be a protected minority or Jewish.

Harvard does discriminate against rural "Red State" types though. Mostly because the admissions office is full of Jews.

>>9395643
>>9395643
Protip: Go to Harvard MIT Princeton Stanford Caltech Berkeley or Chicago or just don't go at all. if you aren't elite you are shit. Maybe UCSB is acceptable nowadays since they've been building up their program in physics.

>>9395849
>For PhD its pretty easy, you can find a work/internshop in a top lab for a year (even if your undegrad was shit) as a research tech, get a strong letter or two from PIs and thats usually is enough to get to top 5 PhDs.
how do you actually find these things in, say, physics

>>9402707
Wrong. The posh boy is prepped on the interview and entrance exam.

>>9396456
This happened to me as well (but didn't apply to oxbridge because another place did a more relevant course). Tbf to the teachers the coursework standards and how they should be marked is absolutely retarded so teachers have no idea where they stand when it comes to marking it.