/sci/ - Science & Math

doot doot

>>9395139
Infinite Area and finite Volume is an issue? No.

>>9395139
>This is why infinity as a concept is retarded
Fucking plebeian

>>9395164

Area and volume are finite concepts, you cannot apply infinity to it, logically impossible.

>>9395169
When you do the math it works out logically

>>9395169
>Area and volume are finite concepts

What's the area of the plane?[math]\infty[/math]
Whats the volume of R^3? [math]\infty[/math]

Not at all controversial.

>>9395169
What is derivation and integration?

Words for 400.

>>9395177

The mathematics is wrong in the first place.

>>9395178

If you define something as an "area", then there must also be something that isn't an "area", otherwise you cannot define it as such, which means it isn't infinite.

I hate it, I hate it, I hate it.
Why must the world be so complicated?
And why must humans always add more and more complicated stuff on top of it?

>>9395192
Hi Wildberger

>>9395192
The area of the plane x=0 is infinite. So is the area of the plane x=1. These are two separate planes that don't intersect, but both have infinite areas.

>>9395192
>If you define something as an "area", then there must also be something that isn't an "area", otherwise you cannot define it as such, which means it isn't infinite.

what the fuck kind of broken ass logic?

>>9395190

Bullshit.

>>9395197

What's separating these areas if they are infinite? It doesn't work, infinity does not have a beginning and an end so they can be separated.

This shit is the reason why I went into engineering instead of maths

>>9395212
>What's separating these areas if they are infinite? It doesn't work, infinity does not have a beginning and an end
They're separated by an infinite volume defined as 0<x<1
Infinity is unbounded, but it doesn't mean it encompasses everything.
Riddle me this: There are infinitely many natural numbers, but not every number is natural.

>>9395209

For an area to be an area it must be finite, otherwise there's no starting or end point to do anything with that area.

>>9395212
what if you have the lines y=x and y=x+1,
they both have infinite length and they're separated by the little strip of the plane in between them

>>9395223
>For an area to be an area it must be finite, otherwise there's no starting or end point to do anything with that area.

useless, you just pulled that straight out of your ass

>>9395223
>For an area to be an area it must be finite
It's just wrong

>otherwise there's no starting or end point to do anything with that area.
What the fuck do you mean "do something"? We're talking about mathematical ideas here.

You're either trolling or you have some reading to do.

>>9395233
>>9395230
>this is an area
>except there are no boundaries
where's the fucking area then???

>>9395222

>Riddle me this: There are infinitely many natural numbers, but not every number is natural.

Numbers aren't actually separate either. A number is the number it is, as well as every number it is not.

>>9395226

Length is again a finite concept - they cannot be infinitely long because length requires a beginning and an end.

>>9395230

Prove it wrong.

>>9395233

Do calculations with.

>>9395238
You don't know what you're talking about.

what is the area of a circle with a variable radius. now then, what is the area of a circle whose radius is infinite.

Koch Snowflake curve
Infinite length line enclosing a finite area
No calculus needed. Get used to it

>>9395240
>Prove it wrong.
DUDE you just made it up im not fucking proving your own false garbage.

>Length is again a finite concept - they cannot be infinitely long because length requires a beginning and an end.
the beginning is [math]x=-\infty[/math] the end is [math]x=\infty[/math]

>Do calculations with.
you can do calculations with infinite areas

>>9395242
>variable radius

That's finite.

> radius is infinite

Impossible. There'd be no circle (which is a finite sized shape).

>>9395254
>−∞
>x=∞

You cannot represent infinity using symbols which themselves are finite. Infinity does not have a beginning and end.

>>9395255
>Impossible
No such thing as impossible in Math brainlet, its called abstraction

>>9395260
its called abstraction. How you write something down as ZERO impact on the properties of the actual thing the symbol represents you brain dead imbecile.

>you cant write 2 with one symbol, it represents an amount of two things
Kys

>>9395254
Post just before yours proves you're wrong.
Infinite length boundary line.
Not my fault if your screen only supports finite resolution.

>>9395271
Oops, sorry >>9395254
You were agreeing lines CAN be infinitely long.
Misread you.

>>9395275
its cool, i misclick all the time

>>9395261

Abstraction cannot represent infinity.

>>9395270

It does when you're trying to give infinity a beginning and an end.

>>9395282
>Abstraction cannot represent infinity.

Why not

>>9395243

Where's the line?

>>9395290
the border of the black and the white

>>9395289

Because infinity does not have a beginning and end.

>>9395294

That's a shape, not a line.

>>9395299
>Because infinity does not have a beginning and end.
Not justification

1 doesn't have a beginning and end, its a goddamn fucking number

>>9395139
This is why OP as a faggot is retarded

>>9395139

Not at all, your intuition is just shit. Teenagers can intuit the plausibility of the notion, and correctly understand same, to themselves.

Among conventional (Euclidian) geometric figures, the figure having a finite surface area and a finite volume is trivial, and the figure having an infinite surface area and a finite volume is also straightforward to intuit (if a bit strange at first), provided that the surface area is /shaped/ appropriately (/shape/ and /infinity/ are independent qualities of a thing). It is even straightforward to intuit a figure with both infinite surface area and volume: imagine a set composed of infinitely many disjoint spheres, cubes, etc, , forming a lattice. All this, because what is /infinite/ may /bound/ what is finite/, or even another /infinity/. And it is in the nature of geometric objects that the exterior should bound the interior, where both exist. But the converse of the former is the only true absurdity.

The only notion which is an absurdity among the four possibilities, is that a figure with an infinite /volume/ may be bounded by a finite surface area. And likewise in the analogous two-dimensional cases where the appropriate words are replaced by "perimeter", "area", etc.

>>9395305
>1 doesn't have a beginning and end

Exactly my point.

>>9395299
That IS a line. The boundary between black and white. Maybe I should have picked an illustration which had white on both sides of the line, but that doesn't alter anything.

>>9395310
>The only notion which is an absurdity among the four possibilities, is that a figure with an infinite /volume/ may be bounded by a finite surface area. And likewise in the analogous two-dimensional cases where the appropriate words are replaced by "perimeter", "area", etc.

In Euclidean geometry, yes/
In hyperbolic geometry, perfectly legit to have an infinite area (and infinitely long lines) bounded by a finite perimeter.
In fact, most of Relativity uses hyperbolic geometry. The event horizons of black holes have a circumference but (possibly) infinite radius. In the reduced dimension analogies you see drawn, the center of the "funnel" is stretched infinitely far out of the flat space "plane" which surrounds the hole.
All a matter of picking the appropriate metric for the situation.

>>9395322

It's a finite shape in a finite area. You cannot apply length to something that doesn't begin or end.

>>9395345
BOI the definition of area and volume doesnt involve length. The area can be infinite, if you know anything about linear algebra it would be obvious to you. Fucking brainlet ass /b/tard coming over here stirring shit kys cunt

>>9395352

If it was you that posted the Koch snowflake you said it was an infinite length line enclosing a finite area.

>>9395139
>t. brainlet

>>9395352
>BOI the definition of area and volume doesnt involve length
Prove the area of a square without using length.

>>9395358
Na different guy. I literally study this as a part of my course. The concept of area and volume as parts of mathematics as a whole only makes sense if you allow for infinity to exist in both cases. (basically since they are defined by planes, in turn defined by infinite vectors). Another way to think about it is that in real life, we have no reason to believe that infinitisemally small volumes exist (and then by symmetry, infinitely large volumes)
TL;DR basically the whole argument boils down to not being a fucking brainlet

>>9395254
What about C, where there s no order property and no -inf

Peasant.

>>9395370
>LMAO GOT EM MOM HERE COME LOOK I MANAGED TO STRETCH MY CHEETO CRUSTED FINGERS TO TYPE SOME RETARDED SHIT ON A MONGOLIAN BASKET WEAVING FORUM

>>9395255
Calculus is not about adding infinities together but about working your way towards infinity through limits. Mathematics can't work with infinities as a standalone concept (see 1/0 or 0/0)

>>9395373
There exist a linear isomorphism w/ determinate 1 from C to R2 so volumes in C correspond to volumes in R2

>>9395338
Fascinating, so a black hole just looks like a 4d funnel

>>9395371
>I literally study this as a part of my course

Of course you do, doesn't mean they're right. Professors are just spewing what they've been "taught".

Infinity is a concept that is grossly misunderstood in mathematics. Trying to apply it to finite concepts is completely illogical. All numbers are a representation of infinity themselves, we just put different labels on them 1, 2, 3 etc.

>>9395380

You cannot work towards infinity because there's no starting or end point.

>>9395352
>BOI the definition of area and volume doesnt involve length
Measure Theory kid, educate yourself on some Lebesgue measure. Area and volume are exactly the surface of the square or the length or the line

>>9395345
Oh! I tie a string in a loop and it doesn't have a length?

>>9395358
Look up Koch snowflake. Each additional lever of detail added multiplies the length of the boundary line by 4/3rds and the procedure never ends.
Yet the area is clearly finite since I can draw a circle around it.

>>9395139
Of course the Horn is only an abstraction which can't be constructed in Real Life because matter can't be subdivided into an infinite number of "mathematical points".
Same reason the Banach–Tarski Paradox can't be executed in practice.

>>9395394
>unironically uses Measure Theory
>tries to sound intelligent
Pick one boyo

>>9395385
Define an order relation on R2

>>9395401

>Oh! I tie a string in a loop and it doesn't have a length?

Was the string infinitely long in the first place?

>multiplies the length of the boundary line by 4/3rds

So there is finite length then?

>>9395402
>upset undergrad that doesn t understand the nuances of MT
>fucking retard that doesn t know what he s talking about
Choose one

>>9395402
>unironically thinks that measure theory is in any way brainlet

kys, maybe learn it before you shit on it

>>9395391
Yes you can, infinity is bigger than the norm of any number, therefore you can start counting towards it from any finite number.

>>9395322
It isn t a curve (line), it is a family of lines whose length tends towards infinity. The snoflake in the image has finite length

>>9395424

Infinity is not a number, it is a property of all numbers.

>>9395431
>it is a property of all numbers.
no

infinity is the size of the set of the integers you fucking retard

>>9395431
>infinity is a property of a finite number
Out

>>9395431
>infinity is a proprety

>>9395442
>infinity is the size of the set

You're applying the finite concept of size to infinity.

>>9395443
>>9395444

∞00000000000000001.0000000000000000000∞

A number is represents itself, and every number it is not. They are infinite.

>>9395410
No, it was a finite length before I began. And it still has a finite length after I complete the knot and snip off the loose ends.


>>9395429
The snowflake is DEFINED as having been generated by an infinite procedure. As I said, not my fault your limited monitor can't display it in full detail. You have to zoom in, just like you would the Mandelbrot Set.
And it IS considered a curve despite having no tangent defined at any point. It was called "pathological" when introduced but is now accepted as a curve, as precisely defined as a circle is.

>>9395452
>No, it was a finite length before I began. And it still has a finite length after I complete the knot and snip off the loose ends.

So how can infinite length exist?

>>9395451
>You're applying the finite concept of size to infinity.

And you're saying that none of the properties of the real numbers apply to infinity, which is far more unreasonable.

>>9395459

Not following.

>>9395139
>brainlet rejects concept his mind is not strong enough to comprehend

this is stupid and should be deleted along with all similar threads

>>9395169
Pythagoreans figured out millenniums ago that when faced between trusting logic or intuition, you should pick logic. What you are calling logic is intuition, you think you know what it is but you don't.

>>9395472

What's illogical about it?

>>9395479
>Area and volume are finite concepts
this

>Infinite Area and finite Volume
Is perfectly logically valid. Now on the other hand,
>finite surface area but an infinite volume
Would be wrong.

Saying that area and volume are finite concepts is illogical because it has no grounds on math. It is something intuitively true, just like "the square root of 2 is a rational number" used to be an intuitively true concept. Both are logically wrong.

>>9395409
You don't need an order relation to define volumes.

>>9395465
given a line A from 0 to n and a line B from 0 to n+1 the length of B is larger than the length of A. so the length of a line from 0 to [math]\infty[/math] is larger than every other length, which is just the definition of infinity. So its logical to say that the length of a line that doesn't end is equal to infinity.

>>9395489

An area = size
Size = finite
Infinity = no beginning and no end

A size must have a beginning and an end to be a size. Therefore a size/area cannot be infinite.

>>9395169
Really lazy attempt. Consider yourself lucky /sci/ falls for baits this easily.

>>9395497

This begins with the false assumption that a line can go to infinity. You're applying a beginning and an end to something that doesn't have one.

>>9395513
I'm not the OP, nor am I baiting.

>>9395510
>A size must have a beginning and an end to be a size.

That's where you're wrong, kiddo.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measure_(mathematics)

OP, the object in you're picture cannot exist in this universe as far as we know
zeno's arrow and/or geometric series is a far more reasonable introduction to infinity as a concept outside of counting

>>9395590

That's making the same mistake, the diagram has a finite line with a beginning and an end.

>>9395634
you're far too deep into your own ass that you can't stop using your intuition, and even worse thinking that your intuition is logical
you're everything wrong with this world

>>9395634
“When the wise man points at the Moon, the idiot looks at the finger.”

>>9395634

>>9395634
Since you seem to have some kind of reading deficiency, allow me to refer you to the following sentence:

"Technically, a measure is a function that assigns a non-negative real number or +∞ to (certain) subsets of a set X."

It's literally a part of the definition.

>>9395644

I didn't come to my conclusion because I felt like it, it's based on conscious reasoning. If it's so illogical then you need to prove why.

>>9395651

Can you point to infinity?

>>9395654

Don't punch me punch the "intellectuals" who came up with this deliberately confusing shit.

>>9395659

Meaningless jargon. You cannot apply infinity to finiteness, it's as simple as that.

>>9395669
>argues with a definition

>>9395669
>Can you point to infinity?

>>9395684

Meaningless definition.

>>9395688

Didn't think so.

>>9395693
>Meaningless definition.
>Standard definition used by mathematicians is 'meaningless' because I'm retarded and incapable of comprehending it.

Seriously, do the world a favor and kill yourself mate.

>>9395688

Also, shouldn't the diagram look more like this?

>>9395698
Measures are non-negative.

>>9395697

They're just as lost as everyone else.

>>9395701

So zero is the beginning? Not infinite then.

I would also like to say that if you don't really understand mathematics it's not because you're a "brainlet", it's because it's not supposed to make any real sense in its current form. It can reveal some very powerful truths about reality which won't benefit those currently in charge.

>>9395707
The fuck are you talking about? A half-space is still infinite. Or are you going to claim it's finite?

>>9395243
just dip it in a bucket of paint.

wooooooooooow

>>9395747

Infinity cannot have a beginning. If you have a beginning you must also have an end, in the same way if you have up, you must also have down, can't have one without the other.

>>9395139
>infinity as a concept
... as opposed to ... what?

>>9395758
>beginning you must also have an end
prove that with logic

>>9395785

It's a self-evident truth. They are two sides of the same coin.

>>9395401
Well no, you can't draw an actual circle around it. If the cock object was real, it would actually grow in size as every infinitesimal unit making up it's edge begins to occupy a planck length. Maybe at some point you'd be able to draw a circle around this object, but it would eventually or quickly expand beyond your circle.

Infinity is not a number you can work with in finite time.

>>9395796
So you are saying that any concept of infinity must have no beginning and no end which therefore means it includes everything and that this is an axiom.
Am I correct? Is this an accurate description?

>>9395805


Numbers themselves are infinite, they have to be. We've just labelled them in such a way that they become separate, definable things, as that's how we experience and therefore apply to reality.

>>9395758
>If you have a beginning you must also have an end

>>9395814
You seem to not be understanding what mathematics actually is. Try reading a book.

>>9395796
>It's a self-evident truth.

>>9395814
>Numbers themselves are infinite, they have to be.
The absolute state of /sci/.

>>9395796
>self-evident truth.
the state of undergrad rationalists

>>9395828
>>9395833
>>9395835
>>9395838
>>9395841

Prove me wrong then!

>>9395844
>Prove we wrong without using logic because logic is a construction I disagree with.
This thread has been pretty fun.

Reminder to remind your professor if they use [math]\infty[/math] as anything but an abstract concept, that they're doing math wrong.

No, [math]n \rightarrow \infty[/math] is not real or correct math.

>>9395844
we cant prove you wrong if you disregard every logical post anon

>>9395848
>>9395860

You can do better than that.

>>9395866
Yes we can. Why would we want to?

>>9395870

Because we're on a mathematics board?

>>9395879
Fruitlessly explaining mathematical concepts to an uninformed and yet at the same time hostile party is not mathematics or science.

Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results.

>>9395886

More excuses. And hostile? I've been nothing but cordial.

>>9395888
look anon just gather your works and take them to the big up math wiz dudes and do a presentation
if they give you a thumbs up your golden if not you can go home
there is nothing else to discuss here

>>9395888
I refer you to where this thread started.
>>9395139
>This is why infinity as a concept is retarded

>>9395891

They would never give a thumbs up to anything that threatens their salary.

>>9395892

I'm not the OP. I don't have a problem with the concept of infinity, just that applying it to finite things is illogical.

>>9395896
>They would never give a thumbs up to anything that threatens their salary.
so you are the genius here who knows whats up and everyone else is a dumb faggot ?
is that what your trying to say ?

>>9395899

No, it doesn't take a genius to work it out, it's actually very simple stuff. Problem is we don't get a chance to think about it before school indoctrination begins. Gotta get you while you're young.

Ah yes..this beckons me back to the analoge imagery of the snake eating itself.

The idea is there, by some unknown non-dimensional means, the end and the beginning are in essence linked 'physically' together, and by this, no matter how far you check on the small end, you never reach the end if you zoom in enough.

But this, in truth, has to do with a misunderstanding about the limitless nature of that which we call 'space-time', that our concepts of size matter at all. Since all of what which is in space-time shrinks and echoes perpetually, the original size of existence is both infinitely large and small, depending on how much you zoom in on it, perhaps the object we are looking at is something that doesn't have size, so the image we see here is more like a shadow from the inside of it, at a conceptual level, of what's actually going on. Visualizing the truth of this object, is not something that would be easy even with 3-d programs.

>>9395169
>t. brainlet who has never read measure theory

>>9395944
>Since all of what which is in space-time shrinks and echoes perpetually, the original size of existence is both infinitely large and small

>according to mathfags no one can ever move anywhere because you must always approach half way to your destination, then halfway between that point and your destination, and so on.

>>9396075
That's dumb. I just act like I want to twice as far then give up halfway through. You know, like a normal person.

>how many points are on a line
Infinite
>how long is the line
Finite length

No inconsistency here

>>9396077
But then it is your intention to give up halfway through, therefore your target location is still halfway from that point, which is now halfway from that point, and so on.

>>9396082
I never intend to give up halfway through anyth

>>9396089
You made a deliberate choice to not continue finishing the sentence. Unless you died. And even then someone made that choice for you. They got halfway to killing you, then halfway from that point to you being dead, and so on.

>>9395944
Lay off the acid brainlet

>>9395254
Are you slightly retarded? Mathematics is not the only field that defines things. Length and Area are concepts way older then maths plus they simply require to be finite.

Mathematics also knows about "length" and "area" but those are abstract concepts that don't necessarily match reality.

one of the more successful troll threads

why cant autistics simply not respond? im beginning to find 140+ IQs are actually the prime brainlets; if you actually try to follow their posts they come off as mentally retarded minecraft players who struggle to explain anything or respond to things correctly that are not in their low resolution block language, as it were.

>>9395801
It doesn't grow in size.
At least read up on the Snowflake curve before you make yourself look any more ignorant.

Look, if you have a square one unit on a side (with an obviously finite area), how long a line do you have to draw on its surface to cover it completely? Infinitely long, since a line (by Euclid) has no thickness. The number of points on a surface and the number of points on a line are both infinities of the same order since they can be mapped into one-to-one correspondence. Read about Cantor. You might learn something. You might even find it interesting.

>>9396242
my cock grows in size when your mum engulfs it with her smooth, moist lips and eats my brown pakistani cumshot you fucking faggot

>>9396246
This is why woman from the civilized world being desperate enough to suck a Paki as a concept is retarded

>>9395139
Daily reminder that you all brainlets have to put limitations and scales as your brains cannot comprehend infinity.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vwObck9twes

>>9395212
Think of infinity as an integer.

Like another posted said, you could have 2 infinites that don't intersect.

>>9395888
I guess we are hostile towards you. Prepare for ZyklonB or deport yourself.

>>9395896
You have the burden of proof.

>>9395260
We are hitting brainlet levels that shouldn't be possible

>>9395409
You can find an order relation on any set you mongoloid

>>9395844
>a circle has no beginning or end, therefore circles dont exist, checkmate atheists

Holy shit this must be what it's like meeting Wildberger

>>9396540
He probably meant a total ordering relation lel

>>9396638
Kek>>9396494

>>9395139
When Zeno contemplated infinity, he imagined cutting time into smaller and smaller intervals. In a sense he slowed down (retarded) time and concluded nothing moves.
Maybe there is something to do with retardation here.

>>9395782
Come on OP, step up.

>>9395888
At least you have nice trips

>>9396080
>how many points are on a line
>Infinite

Therefore it doesn't have any points. It's redundant.

>>9396549
>a circle has no beginning or end

No beginning or end of what?

>>9396481

An integer is a number, infinity itself is not a number.

>>9395669
>>9395688
>Can you point to infinity?

>>9398550

You're pointing to the end of a line with a symbol on it.

>>9395139

Infinity doesn't exist IRL. It's a concept in mathematics, not in physics.

>>9395669
>>9395688
Just draw the number line as a space filling curve with infinite length and point to the end

e z p z

>>9398552
WOAH fuckingn woke as hell my dude #notmyinfinity

>>9398552
Point me to the number 1.

>>9396109
Same is true for time. Time and math are both arbitrary concepts made by humans to describe things that we observe. Math and equations cannot explain ANYTHING as the universe does not understand the concept of either.

>>9399144

>Math and equations cannot explain ANYTHING as the universe does not understand the concept of either.

If infinity doesn't real, then how many points are there on a line segment? How many points are on the plane?

>>9399161
you can't define an object with one dimension on an object with higher dimensions. a point on a line segment is no longer a point.

>>9399161
L*A,

where L = Length of line and A=points per length unit

Normally A is thought to be infinite.

Arithmetically infinite*B=infinite where B is nonzero positive number

>>9399169
then what is it?

>>9399149
>the universe has a calculator and arbitrarily plugs equations in it to make things spin and move.

>>9399171
a smaller line segment

>>9399161
It's simple.

Or these objects don't exist (a point on a line segment).

Or a finite number. A very, very, very large number, but a finite number.

>>9399175
with 0 length?

It takes an infinite amount of 2d paint to paint the surface but any finite amount of 3d paint is sufficient to do the same as it has measure 0 in 3d space.

>>9399181
if the length is 0 that's still a dimension it's defined in, making it no longer a point

>>9399174

>He doesnt understand mathematics are actually the core of the universe and equations are ONE way to explain it.

Take off your mask brainlet

>>9399184
How many length zero line segments can be fit inside of a length 1 line segment?

>>9399189
As many as you want, they have zero length.

They're still line segments, though.

>>9399194
>as many as you want

>>9399194
So you're saying that.... infinity could fit?

checkmate

>>9399200
You misunderstood. I was never arguing against infinity in the first place.

>>9395169
what the fuck is a finite concept? do we have an escaped philosopher here or what?

>>9398552
fixed I guess

Infinity exists because mathematics is flawed therefore its never a closed set. No proof can be fully proven unless you plug in every variable. So if infinity exists God exists yet there's so many athesists

>>9395169
>what are limits
>infinite increase
>definite limits

>>9395669
>Can you point to infinity?
Any direction points to infinity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-point_compactification

>>9395192
>The mathematics is wrong in the first place.

Hahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahhahahahahhahahahhhahahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahaha it depresses me that people like you get business degrees and then end up valued by society because you make a retarded amount of money given how stupid you are.

>>9399144
Time exists refer to >>9396457

Time is actually the only thing that exists. A true definition for time is that time represents the increase of the total entropy of the universe towards its final stage of chaos also known as the heat death of the universe.

Reminder, that to approach and to equal are the same thing

>>9400439
>refers to infinity
>thinks that the universe has a concept of "time"

When you have no beginning, and no end there is no "time". There is no "entropy", there is no "heat death", there is no "big bang".

>>9395197
Look a parallel


>>9395260
R E T A R D E D
There is a half-line ...


>>9395282
Since you haven't seen buzz lightyear, you are dumbfuck. You have beggining somewhere, and no end.

>>9395373
while(true)
|also absolute value is important concept in understanding your infinite wrothlessness.