/sci/ - Science & Math

We got a bunch of lobbyists, meme dieter and actual competent people.
Also most people "can't" live without sugar.

>>9351770
Two reasons
1) Capitalism: big corporations really want us to eat their shit. For an example, look up how sugar companies promoted and published fake research to ensure the public sugar was safe.

2) Any retard can pretend to be a nutrition expert nowadays. Look up the HAES movement.

>>9351783
>>9351812
Any tips for a layman to sift through all the bullshit? Is it enough to see who has funded the research? Or maybe one would have to read the entire history of the field.

>>9351826
>Any tips for a layman to sift through all the bullshit?
Yeah. just don't. If you want to be healthy just do not eat like a pig and if you want to be extra safe count calories.

If you still want to hear from a nutritionist then my only advice would be to have the big bucks ready and talk only with nutritionists who work with Olympic tier athletes, because at least you know they won't be lying about the effectiveness of their ideas.

>>9351826
there are some safe and simple notions. eat natural over processed. eat high variety of fruits, vegetables and animal products. count calories. eat a balance of protein, carbohydrates and fat.

basically if it's super processed shit with tons of non-ingredients on it, don't eat it. eat real food. that's it.

>>9351844
>Natural=good

Brainlet

>>9351770
shills shilling their wares
>the other guy is evil

for example, sugar is sugar if you get it from a fruit or from a candy bar its the same shit

>>9351770
>nutrition
not science or math

It's not divides, but the word nutritionits is not regulates like the word M.D. Nutritionits are there either for athletes/actors or for people with serious problems like really ugly alergies. But they stikk get paid if some retard goes and tells them they want to follow some meme diet so they tell them to just follow a specific regiment even though they might bot recomend it as optimal. Like, if some retard goes and tell we want out child to avoid these products, even though it's not recomended or needes, theg just give a way for the dumbfuck parents to not kill the child.

>>9351826
Sup yall. Nutrition major here, getting my dietetics license in a year or so ("nutritionists" are the people who work at gnc or herbalife. dieticians have minimum of masters degree and work in hospital)

Basically, use common sense. Your body has evolved over millions of years to eat a certain way. When you deviate from this, your body enters a disease state. The most common reason for death around the world is diet related diseases. Even cancer and shit is caused by diet.

Tbh my quick guide would be

step 1: track your nutrition on cronometer

step 2:eat only whole foods. Nothing processed. Only water or juice or tea. Limit meats.

step 3: if you want to do even more, go vegan and do your research on nutritionfacts.org


tl;dr: if you want legit science thats not funded by any industry, check out nutritionfacts.org. its a nonprofit and run by an ex-professor of stanford

>>9352168
> sugar is sugar
fucking lel i knew this board was retarded. Learn some carbohydrate chemistry please

>>9352168
same person as >>9352807

Nah bro theres a difference between high fructose corn syrup (sugar) and something like agave nectar (sugar). the sugar in fruit is going to be better for you than sugar in your 32oz coke since its accompanied by fiber and other things. look up Monosaccharide vs disaccharides

>>9351770
because someone wants you to eat poison, op.

>>9351826

Your brain and all your cell walls need cholesterol and similar lipids.
Fat is healthy, so is protein. Avoid excessive carbs and avoid added sugars at all cost.
Drink lots of water or water-based drinks where you control the ingredients (coffee, tea)

You have to learn the biochemistry behind human metabolism to understand nutrition fully and not just take someone's word for it. There is no one optimal diet. Your goals will influence what diet is best. For instance, a bodybuilder will want to maximize protein intake, whereas someone who's aiming for longevity will aim for protein restriction, particularly of the amino acid methionine (restriction of which is associated with significantly improved outcomes) and upping the intake of glycine (which clears methionine via glycine N-methyltransferase). As a general rule though, a whole food diet is always a good first step.

Look up studies of iv feeding of long-term comatose patients for the most accurate data on nutritional requirements and deficiency-related diseases.

>>9353846
Hey anon you seem knowledgeable, would you say this diet concept is legit since it has good historical outcomes? Or could it just be a coincidence and the people in these regions have good genes and it's just their culture that eats these things, so their longevity isn't caused by the diet?

Should I follow this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Zone

The most important thing for dieting is to go to sleep at the same time every day. When you stay up, some chemical fuckery in the brain forces you to eat, and there is no way to resist it because you do not have free will.

>>9353865
>Okinawa (Japan)
This article isn't trustworthy because it includes statistics from at least one country that is notorious for social security fraud.

>>9353865
its trustworthy. Plant based diets are what humans evolved to eat. meats dont have vitamins or fiber

Well I don't think it is so easy analyse what happened in human body. Probably it isn't related only to lobbies but there is poor knowledge about it.

Is a high fiber diet good? I keep hearing it may or may not be positive and could be negative.

>>9353846
So to live longer i should restrict calories and eat less protein? I don’t give a shit about muscle, i just want to live long/not die in pain from health problems.

>>9352916
Is sugar from fruit juice then as bad as corn syrup since you're not actually eating the fiber?

>>9354354
if you extracted glucose from a fruit or from corn it's still glucose.

I used to work at a candy factory that uses a specific formulation of fruit puree (just sugar and water sourced from fruit juice concentrate), corn syrup, and raw sugar so they can tout "fruit is the first ingredient!" even though the product is 60% raw sugar, the rest being water and gelatin. They market it as something-like-fruit but it's the same shit as gummi bears. The food industry is truly the worst.

>>9354337
Does it take you more than 2 minutes to shit? You need more fiber and probably other things, too.

>>9354337
only plant foods have fiber. animal products have no fiber. 97% of Americans are deficient in fiber. people who only eat a plant based diet have 70% lower rates of colon cancer among other things. (colon cancer having a direct relationship with fiber). So yeah high fiber is good papi

>>9354354
Natural is good :) this video directly links to your topic, sources cited too
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/if-fructose-is-bad-what-about-fruit/


blended smoothies are generally going to be better than juicing because it keeps the fiber
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/juicing-removes-more-than-just-fiber/

But, with regards to just sugar

>>9352724
nutrition
applied biology
not math

Carbs like bread, rice, pasta, etc, even in "whole grain" form shoild not make up that much of your diet. Period.

Every single nutrition argument just boils down to people going "No, ACTUALLY-" with whatever nutritional factoid they've latched on to.

>>9355066
this is correct.

>>9355087
It really seems like the food one eats is a primordial in-group out-group thing.

>>9355062
Why?

>>9352807
>vegan

lmao, "nutrition major". Veganism objectively deprives your body of essential nutrients.

>>9351844
>>9352807

Define "processed" and explain why it is bad.

>>9351770
>that food pyramid
>dairy above fish, beans and nuts
what kinda bullshit is this?

>>9355107
all nutrients (except water, and b12 which comes from bacteria) come from plants. ANY nutrient you find in meat comes from plants or is synthesized by the animal from plants.

While yes, you can be deficient on a vegan diet, this is why I recommend you track your nutrition on a website like cronometer

"Dietary intake studies have shown that vegans, on average, are not getting the recommended daily intake of three nutrients: calcium, iodine, and vitamin B12. Using the same criteria. though, omnivores are deficient in seven nutrients: calcium, iodine, and five others. Still, the EPIC Study found this year that vegans not getting enough calcium have increased bone fracture risk. Those getting enough—600 milligrams a day—were fine."

But, if you want to look at actual data...
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/omnivore-vs-vegan-nutrient-deficiencies-2/

eat more plants.

>>9355118
same as >>9352807

youre body hasnt evolved over millions of years to eat fucking twinkies and soda. There are things that should be in your body, and things that shouldnt. Its up for everyone to decide for themselves. Id say start with removing pesticides (accumulate 35x higher in meat than in veggies), pollutants/antibiotics (something like 70% of antibiotics used on animals and seeps into the meat you eat) and fecal matter (on every piece of meat you eat) is a good start.

In my opinion. you can eat all that if you want.

>>9355118
same>>9355213

also when you process foods you remove vital nutrients from the foods. Sometimes they try to "fortify" these foods by adding vitamins and minerals back in. This is usually ineffective because the minerals are not bioavailable.

>>9355200
>Dietary intake studies have shown that vegans, on average, are not getting the recommended daily intake of three nutrients: calcium, iodine, and vitamin B12. Using the same criteria. though, omnivores are deficient in seven nutrients: calcium, iodine, and five others.

This isn't a fair comparison. Most people on average eat shitty food. Obviously being vegan cuts out all of that stuff, but it's not healthier than eating vegetables along with some meat.

>>9355213
>youre body hasnt evolved over millions of years to eat fucking twinkies and soda.

Yeah, no shit.

But your body HAS evolved to eat (cooked) meat, that's why we have incisor teeth.

>>9354344
Yes, calorie restriction and methionine restriction are very beneficial for healthspan and lifespan. On calorie restriction in monkeys:

"The effects of CR on body composition and metabolic function were robust. Body weight was reduced in animals on CR compared to that of control animals, primarily due to a decrease in total body fat mass(11). The age-associated decline in muscle mass (sarcopenia) was also attenuated in animals exposed to CR(12). Dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry analysis of lean muscle mass throughout the study revealed onset of sarcopenia at 15.5 years with statistically significant maintenance of lean muscle mass in the animals on CR compared to that of controls that has been sustained in animals at old age. Improvements in metabolic function conferred by CR, specifically insulin sensitivity, have been consistent and striking(9, 13). We found that improved glucose homeostasis was maintained and that diabetes was prevented by CR. Of the initial 38 control animals, 5 progressed to diabetes and an additional 11 were classed as pre-diabetic. In contrast, all animals on CR (even those with compromised metabolic function at baseline) show no impairment of glucose homeostasis (Fig. 3A). These data are consistent with CR providing long-term health benefits in protection against diabetes.

source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2812811/

tl;dr: no monkey in the calorie restricted group had diabetes, significantly decreased risk of a common type of cancer in monkeys, and countintuitively protected against muscle wastage (sarcopenia) . There's actually more benefits but I'm not going to copy paste the entire article. Overall though, "Age-related diseases were detected in control animals at ~3 times the rate they were detected in animals on CR(Fig. 3B). Animals on CR, thus, appear to be biologically younger than the normally fed animals." So calorie restriction is probably worth it.

>>9355222
>all of that stuff

correction: *most of that stuff

>>9355222
Ok, name something that meat has that you cant get or synthesize in your body from plants. Ill assume the cancer from meat, the antibiotics, the cholesterol, the saturated fat are all left out.

Also, the longest living populations in the world eat extremely low amounts of meat.
Heres some sources talking about how the less animal products one eats, the longer the life expectancy:
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/do-flexitarians-live-longer/


Onto your second point, check out this pic and this paper which goes into more details:
http://www.adaptt.org/documents/Mills%20The%20Comparative%20Anatomy%20of%20Eating1.pdf

basically, the common consensus is that humans ate mostly plant based until the ice age, and then after that never gave up the bad habit of eating meat.

Your body doesnt need carbs

it needs the micronutrient from carb like foods such as kale, tamato, peppers

just eat fat like avocado, FISH (chicken turkey beef btfo), cheese, pretty much food that is high in both sat and unsaturated fat. Take your fish oil at 1200 mg

>>9355229
so eating less (including protein) actually prevents your muscle mass from deteriorating? I wonder if calorie restriction can maybe help the brain.

>>9355062
Not true. Brown rice is perfectly healthy and couple with legumes should be the foundation of any healthy diet.

>>9355259
Yes, calorie restriction also had a positive effect on gray matter conservation:

"Brain atrophy is a characteristic of human aging that is not accurately reproduced in smaller mammals(15). We therefore determined the regional effects of age, diet, and age x diet interactions on gray matter (GM) volume(16). There were several cortical regions (bilateral frontal and temporal cortex) where decreases in volume with age were observed independent of diet(Fig.4A–C) (17). However, animals subjected to CR had statistically significant preservation of GM volume in subcortical regions (Fig.4D–F) including the caudate and putamen and the left insula. Examination of group differences in the slope of age-related GM atrophy (age x diet group interaction) reveal regions where CR significantly modified the aging effect (Fig.4G–I) in the midcingulate cortex, lateral temporal cortex bilaterally, and right dorsolateral frontal lobe, indicating relative preservation of volume with age in the CR group. Thus, CR reduced age-associated brain atrophy in key regions that subserve motor function and aspects of executive function." from the same study.

Although I should note that ketogenic diets are more promising in terms of neuroprotectiveness (http://sci-hub.bz/10.1016/j.nurt.2008.05.004, tl;dr improved alzheimer's symptoms, the brain uses 70% ketones and 30% glucose when the body is in ketosis, vs 100% glucose otherwise.)

>>9355252
>Your body doesnt need carbs
Retard spotted

>>9354344
More for protein restriction:

Protein restriction without strong caloric restriction decreases mitochondrial oxygen radical production and oxidative DNA damage in rat liver (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15692733))

Low protein intake is associated with a major reduction in IGF-1, cancer, and overall mortality in the 65 and younger but not older population (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24606898))

Protein and amino acid restriction, aging and disease: from yeast to humans.(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4254277/))

>>9354344
focus on the "whole food" part

>>9351770
because there are political and ideological implications, also could you imagine the backlash against food companies if they were honest about ZOG-chow and how awful it is for your endocrine system, nervous system, gut, bones, heart?
>>9352166
>pink slime, chicky nuggies, top-ramen which looks like foam, syrup flavored foods, fake cheese is akshually good for you haha
idiot

>>9352743
>vegan
You're thinking of vegetarianism. Veganism is a cult. Or do you want to explain how using furs is unhealthy? Or medicine tested on animals?

>>9355405
Vegetarians eat and drink animak produce like milk, cheese or honey, vegans don't. You are talking about retarded PETA niggers.

>>9355405
?
veganism means consuming not animal products. Vegetarians consume milk, eggs, cheese, and other dairy products.

Also considering that a majority of global warming is caused by the animal agriculture industry, id say its a good choice to stay away from harvesting the lives of other living beings for fun

>>9355389
there is a huge reason why ebt/foodstamps allow you to buy soda and sugary shit.

>>9355436
Is it to kill off undesirables or to milk them for money via medical/drug costs? Or is it simply another way that big industry has found a way to give itself tax dollars by using poor people as intermediaries?

>>9355474
>another way that big industry has found a way to give itself tax dollars
Probably this one.

>>9355289
Just show brit show on fat vs sugar and the conclusion was high fat diets with no carbs can fuck your memory and make you a brainlet. What is the most /sci/ approved diet just for pure brain performance that doesnt harm life span?

>>9355566
>Just show brit show
wat

>>9355616
Phone posting.

>>9355566
intermittent fasting vegan

>>9355566
Eat more good stuff and less bad stuff

>>9351770
What benefits will I accrew from actually persuing good nutrition over just counting calories. Currently now though, I'm not even dieting and am a bit in dissarray. My meals for today were:
>Dunkin Donuts' Ham, Cheese, Egg flatbread (480)
>DD tater tots (130)
>Cheetos Jalapenos (1440)
>Glazed minidonuts (420)
>energy drink (0)
then near the end of the day I was craving nutrients so I ate 2 bananas, an apple, and some nuts. And drank some water.

Besides getting fat, how is my diet negatively affecting me.

>>9351770
Because we know way less about the human body than we like to admit. So several different people come up with several different “optimal” diets and they all scream like retarded chimps about how their food intake chart is the best. The one that screams the loudest gets their food intake chart taught to other morons until we learn something new about diet/nutrition/humans that shows why the food intake chart we have been using is wrong. Then the cycle starts over again.

>>9355250
>posting a known pseud meme article as your "evidence"
Not a good look bro

>>9355829
Obesity actually does impact brain performance due to the increased usage of oxygen in sustaining your mass of fat, and increased blood pressure. If you're only a little bit fat it won't make a difference, but if you get to the point of morbidity it certainly will take effect.

>>9356010
nice ad hominem papi.

debate the argument

>>9356324
no pill masterrace

1990 = eat carbs
2010 = fug dont eat carbs

>>9356329
See
>>9355854

>>9352807
>your body has evolved over millions of years to eat a certain way.
>go vegan
The whole field of anthropology disagrees.

>>9351770
because nobody fucking knows anything about it

>>9356344
>humans have no hunting capacity besides using weapons
>humans developed over hundreds of millions of years before using weapons
>anytime humans eat meat they have to burn it over fire first, unlike any other omnivore/carnivore

if humans evolved to eat animal products, they wouldnt cause a disease state in the body.

nice bait papi

>>9355829
youll just get sick. each vitamin and mineral has a specific job. Lacking in one means the job doesnt get finished. this can appear in numerous different ways. for instance, deficiency in vitamin D can lead to osteoporosis and depression. Deficiency in some b vitamins lead to depression and low energy. Deficiency in vitamin k gives low blood coagulation, the list goes on.

Try filling out all your vitamin needs on a site like cronometer, see you how feel after a couple of days of hitting all your markers.

>not exclusively eating soylent
lmaoing @ ur toxins

>>9356414
Good soy boy goy. Keep it up! Proud of you!

t. The Jews

>>9356546
>not eating the soylent version without soy

>>9356400
Sources for the correlation between meat and cancer?

>>9356548
New soylent without “soy”!
* Now with twice the levels of plant estrogen.

>>9357062
>thinking plants have more estrogen in them then meat

>>9351770
Does anyone else feel like food guides should be made according to necessary nutrients rather than fucking whatever?
It blows my mind to this day that pasta and crackers are on an official food pyramid, AND that they made up the base of it for a long time
Even putting the fats/sugars at the top makes no fucking sense. Why wouldn’t an avocado go in the fats? Why would grassfed butter and coconut oil?

If you’re going to make a pyramid of food groups, it should ONLY be separated by vital needs. A protein section, fats section, nutrients/vitamins section, and carbohydrate section arranged as a fucking pie chart with needed percentages.
Why is it arranged by something so trivial as made up categories? It makes it seem like you NEED to be eating something in every rung. Do I see fucking juice on there? The fuck is that? Don’t drink tucking juice. God fucking dammit we need to make a new chart in this thread right fucking now or everyone is going to get fucking diabetes

>>9356576
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2015/11/03/report-says-eating-processed-meat-is-carcinogenic-understanding-the-findings/

the world health organization,

and watch this video
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-not-to-die-from-cancer/

>>9357538
>https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-not-to-die-from-cancer/
>Shows graph with max 20% reduction, shows image with 95% reduction.
Holy shit did you close your eyes when they spoon-fed you this shit.

So are multivitamins bullshit or what?

>>9357089
I agree with you about everything.

Pasta and milk is just on there because "we got lots of this shit". It's not that it's bad, but hardly necessary.

>>9357611
>THE GRAPH IS THE WRONG SIZE

wtf are you talking about, rebuke the studies or dont reply to my shit

i can tell the meat has already deteriorated your brain

Shush, OP, or the Jew lobbyists will come after you.

>>9357931
>The video willfully misrepresents the facts and paints an inaccurate picture and then finishes on wild speculation.

I bet you believe spinach makes you strong and carrots make you see better.

>>9358000
link the time in the video to back up your claim

>>9358000
or just check out the multiple peer reviewed journals cited, where the video gets the graphs from. Are you saying you're smarter than both the world health organization and top nutrition researchers?

>>9358011
1:20 for the graph and then the two circular inset images accompanying images as it goes along.

>>9358031
o dam youre right, i have no clue bro

Listen you twits
I said we should make a new pyramind (pie chart)
Is anyone going to do this with me
We still need to decide on the necessary catagories (proteins, fats, etc.)

>>9358065
Pyramids and Pies are too controversial shapes for this because the pyramids were for storing grain and pies are already a food group. /sarcasm

If you really want to do it right you need to make one of these where one axis is how much of a group you should eat and the other is caloric density.

>>9355566
keto, dunno what bullshit brit show you saw but when you look at actual research it has been shown to improve memory and brain function in many people

>>9358122
yeah if you have epilepsy and want your body to burn out at 35

>>9358134
curious about what causes this "burning out" and what exactly you mean by that? Not being facetious btw. I don't know if you mean zero carb but most keto diets allow around 25g of carbs from vegetables.. and your brain uses the BHB instead of glucose just fine. Is it the autophagy? because that's mostly only if you combine keto with fastomg, and even then it's not some magical fast forward that will cause you to age or die faster really.

>>9358147
oops fasting* not fastomg

>>9352807
>nutritionfacts.org
>website of vegans spewing lies about science and misunderstanding studies
Oh wow. So you're completely full of shit. I hope you realize that site claims milks causes osteoporosis still. Nice try retard. I actually have 10 degrees in Nutritional science from the best universities all across the make believe land.

>>9351826
If you're in the UK "nutritionist" isn't a protected title, Dietitians is the title that requires registration.

>>9358122
Keto involves eating lots of meat though, and according to those other anons(>>9355302
, >>9355289, >>9357611)
,that will in turn harm your health and it's actually bad for cognition, so we're back at square one. This thread just goes to show how fucking messy the subject is.

>>9359329
One of the posts you quoted was me. You don't necessarily have to eat meat on a keto diet. At worst you'll have to eat some eggs or fish to get enough lysine which do contain substances that are good for your brain (choline in eggs and DHA in fish). Also keto is probably still neuroprotective if you're eating meat. The keto formulas they had epileptic children eating were pretty bad but still got rid of their epilepsy. At worst, meat increases your protein intake which could knock you out of ketosis if your body creates too much glucose from the excess protein via gluconeogensis.

>>9359424
Correction, two of the posts you quoted were mine. Anyway, I should add that keto ideally should be a low to moderate protein diet. The people who are eating tons of meat on keto aren't doing it for neuroprotection.

>>9359329
>lots of meat
k. so you're just talking out of your ass then
protein makes up like 10-15% of your intake on keto, and by no means needs to be from meat, sounds like you are thinking of atkins

>>9355229
Now you've made me confused. Doesn't the med, or blue belt diet include lots of protein-rich legumes?

>>9351826
read the /fit/ sticky
know how many calories you should be eating (macros too)
estimate how many calories you're eating
actually count calories every few days to check that your estimates are accurate (without having to go full autismo and count calories every day)

>>9352166
Naturalism is very useful as a bayesian prior when it comes to nutrition.

>>9355263
Unsubstantiated meme

>>9354344
>I don’t give a shit about muscle
>I just want to not die in pain from health problems
Could you possibly be any more of a brainlet?

>tfw pure carnivore diet
>tfw reverse aging
>tfw vegans can't understand the superiority of my diet, because of low B12 and therefore low IQ

>>9360076
bump

>>9351770
>How to be healthy and not fat
1. Eat different things
2. Eat once a day

It's literally that easy.

>>9356400

Evolutionarily, the size of our brain is a direct result of our large intake of meat.

The food pyramid is real simple.

It goes,

----------
Meat
---------------
^
I
-----------------------
Fruits/Vegies
-----------------------------

Carbs are bad and sweets/lollies aren't a food group. Greens sustain us while meat grows us.

paleo diet ,eating raw food/drinking raw milk,raw eggs with maybe some fruits ,taking omega 3 pills is probably the best way to function properly ,nobody in the last eras ate carbs + the vast majority of vegans are defficient in vitamins A,D,k2,etc you can t get those vitamins from your so called vegan diet ,infertility rates are huge in vegans compared to normal diets,cancer is not because of the meat but because of the things that go into it ,if you buy meat at 1.99$ ofc you are gonna get intoxicated you cringey kids

>>9355250
B12 you fucking retard.
Further proof that medishits and ofc nutritionists/dietists do not belong to science.
You are a lib arts faggot with science overtones.

>>9360696
Explain why it's not healthy, please.

>>9361593
>implying he doesn't know this
Fuckin tard. B12 isn't even that important compared to other vitamins. It supports DNA production, emotional balance, and general growth. But the key is support, it's not entirely necessary.
And even if B12 was really important, why would you intake it alongside LDL cholesterol instead of a completely side effect free pill. Natural /=/ better people

>>9355250
>that chart
>someone unironically made that thinking it meant anything
>what is selective data?
>what is toxonomy?
>2.3 million years of development and growth through accelerated evolution due to eating meat means nothing and its just a bad diet.

>>9362058
>not that important

>>9362058
>B12 is not important
>DNA, emotions, and growth aren't even important
>BAD CHOLESTEROL BOOGEYMAN
>natural nutrition isn't better than artificial
this is your brain on soy and sugar lmao

>>9362205
Yea ya got me, B12 is pretty important. I was just going through an autistic moment. Also, I didn't phrase the natural part well. I meant that nothing is *inherently* better just because it's natural. In most (pretty much all) cases, companies sprinkle cancer-tier preservatives on processed foods, which makes them worse than their natural counterparts. Sorry for the tism, anons

>>9360076
Seconding this.
t. not a samefag

>>9356400
nigger our ancestors were scavengers
you don't need to hunt to eat meat

>>9362058
>you should eat all natural non-processed food, vegetables only
>oh and also pills
fucking lmao
if you have to take pills on top of your diet, it means your diet is shit

>>9361563
Wrong, the key is not that we eat meat every carnivore eats meat. The important part is that we cook the meat.

>>9355252
>suggesting people eat mercury laden seafood product to replace animal based protein and fat intake
1-555-COMEON

>>9356400
>humans have no hunting capacity besides using weapons
there is no land animal that can outrun humans over a long distance
>humans developed over hundreds of millions of years before using weapons
haha no, those weren't humans, the species homo has only existed for ~3.5 million years, dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago and primates showed up shortly after
>anytime humans eat meat they have to burn it over fire first, unlike any other omnivore/carnivore
no they don't you idiot, you can easily eat raw meat and digest it
it's just dangerous and safer to cook it

had humans stayed on plants we would've still been a bunch of monkeys eating heir poo
meat offers objectively superior nutrition to plants

>>9364397
>there is no land animal that can outrun humans over a long distance
We are the Jason Voorhees of predators, you can run as much as you want and we will somehow still be right behind you then when you slip and are too weak to get up we just saunter up and stab the shit out of you. Humans are the literal monsters of the animal world and it is fucking great.

>>9364452
>the distance runner King myth
Trained canines, african antelope and ostriches have better distance endurance. Antelope and ostrich are also much, much faster.

The key difference is people could conceivably work together to create a relay system for hunting prey that doesnt gice up.

>>9351770
1. Lobbyists
2. There isn't enough Paleo food for 6 billion people

Take the black nutrition pill - let the lobbyists kill off the plebs.

>>9351826
Just learn the basics.
They key nutrients for your body; lipids, carbs, proteins. Know that natural is always better, and to limit your sugar, salt and meat intake.
Don't eat processed shit.

If you want to talk with a professional, talk to a dietician, not a nutritionist.

>>9365198
No, they don't. You're comparing the best of these animals with average humans today. And endurance is not only composed of physical muscle capacity, it's also the ability to manage heat. Humans get rid of heat very efficiently through sweat, bipedalism and upright posture. These animals fail to do so, overheat very shortly and are unable to continue running. This is not a myth, humans are the most endurant runners in the animal kingdom. The record today is ~560km, show me any animal that can endure running third of that.
Here's a good read that summarizes this:
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2007/04/humans-hot-sweaty-natural-born-runners/

>>9365351
>natural is always better
no, definitely not always
usually but not always

>>9351770
There are many reasons. I'll list three that spring to mind. 1. The concept of a calorie is based on flawed 19th Century science. 2. The "Food Groups" have been manipulated to promote the interests of industry. 3. Analogous to the axiomatic ineptitude of centralized government, it's ludicrous to make generalized rules for a highly diverse population.

>>9351844
Do I really need to count calories is my weight is stable?

>>9365351
>natural is always better
Yeah sure. Go eat a handfull of some all natural apple seeds and see how you do. Hate this bad appeal to nature fallacy. It honestly has no grounds in reality other than "DIS TING GOOD DAT TING BAD!"

>>9351770
>fruit juice
>5-7 servings a day
kek

>>9355250
the most unscientific pop-chart i've seen in a while, anyone that took bio 1 or 2 could understand why this chart doesn't prove anything.

The same ppl that brought us chemtrails, 9/11 and GMO's. Of course the food pyramid is wrong. They're wanting less of us not more. Just another brick in the wall.

>>9355294
What is the use for carbs you fucking brainlet?

>>9354727
Tbh I'd blame the idiot normalfags who actually believe this shit rather than the corporations

>>9355219
>Sometimes they try to "fortify" these foods by adding vitamins and minerals back in. This is usually ineffective because the minerals are not bioavailable.
Total cereal had enough iron added back in that you could push flakes around with a magnet.

>>9366263
energy brainlet, specifically the best energy source for your brain.

>>9355213
it is very obvious that you are either roleplaying or youre just some first year dweeb, because nothing youre saying holds any truth in toxicological and nutritional matters

if you really want to know why nutrition is such a scattered field, it's because you have utter dipshits """dieticians""" like this guy
>>9365351
who are informing the public of things that the actual nutritional/toxicological researchers would dispute.

I mean, some of the stuff they say is right, like to limit sugar, salt and processed meats (contains nitrosamines, PAH, HCA, shit that gets metabolized to carcinogens through CYP1A and 2E families), but all the evidence shows that if you're not overconsuming it, you have no significant increased colon cancer risk.

But then comes all the "EAT NATOOREL, IT IS BETTER!!" shit, where these people just ignore the fact that:
1. natural foods grown without pesticides are very often much higher in levels of phytoalexins (glycoalkaloids, cyanogens, etc..) which turn out to be quite fucking toxic to humans in chronic consumption

2. pesticide use in crops is not associated with any major health outcomes. idk what else to say. all the major meta-analyses that throw out garbage methodology case-controls find this.

3. the actual bio-accumulative toxic compounds that you get through the diet are found in both "natural" and processed foods.
For example, you're actually way way more likely to get exposed to PCB's and dioxins through eating wild fish than you are farmed, because they're the ones seeing all the pollution.

basically, the problem is that these filthy non-researchers lack perspective and do not look at the whole picture of things before they tell the public what to do. They say things that sound right, and sometimes they are right, but most of the time they are uninformed about the entire body of interactions at play and are just adhering to their guidelines.

We just don't know, the studies are scarce, badly done and more often than not directly influenced by big corporations. Basically, what this >>9355854 anon said.
In spire of that we know a few things.
First, nearly everything from these >>9358122 >>9361582 >>9365318
>>9365351 memes is either bad, or it will kill you in few months.
Even if we don't know what is really good or bad for health, we have enough anatomical and medical knowledge to say that you need Carbs, Fats and Proteins in your diet. Eat "high quality" food, for example complex sugars (starch and fiber), and if you need to sweeten at least use fructose (or honey), since you'll need less to obtain the same level of sweetness (unless you want to go full miraculin meme). Fats are actually a huge group of incredibly different molecules, from function to structure, but you can still follow the "high quality" meme, so fish and olive oil (and most other unprocessed vegetable fats, bar Palm and coconut oils) seems to be good, while the fat in butter and red meat might be worse (still you should consider all fat equals in terms of calory intake). For protein there's not that much to say other than what have been already said in this thread. Lastly, you need to vary your diet, it's not necessary to eat as much different (edible) things as you can, but a variegated (and balance between the three macro nutrients) diet usually is enough to grant you a long life.

>>9351770
Because there are so many fucking factors to this.

You can't even measure what shit does to a human body without also testing their entire endocrine and gut flora and shit.
At least not if you want halfway meaningful data.

>>9355107
>OBJECTIVELY deprives your body of certain specific types of nutrients that I can't even name
brainlet