/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9343635
This but split 6th grade math across 2 years and make all courses after probability optional.

>>9343635
To be honest, I think we should eventually get rid of teachers altogether (in a sense) and replace it with an interactive matrix of information (lectures, labs, games, texts, etc.) that reads and reacts to how each individual learns, and where each subject has multiple branches of different teaching styles, and the student learns each at his own rate.

So it'd be like an intelligent software where kids are first exposed to different styles of education for each individual subject, and the ones that inspires and informs them, individually, determines the branch of lessons that they pursue that subject in. And if they reach a step in a subject that they aren't getting, they can try a different lesson on the same subject taught in a different way. And the rate at which they progress through each subject is merely determined by how fast they're grasping the information, as determined through displays of the knowledge.

This is all theoretical, but I really do think eventually it's going to be something more like this. We could curate this system scientifically. I know this is unrealistic, but it would be better, right?

Why contain it? Once you realize hatred for math isn't some magical insecurity but rather the natural conclusion of subpar IQ you realize education can never make up for what isn't there genetically.

>>9343642
i was looking for this, thanks

it's literally a brainlet filter
math education is terrible but someone with an aptitude of math will discover the beauty of it by themselves and self-study
people who are shit in math will get passable arithmetic skills and hate math, which is ok for them

>>9344135
amerifats are literally cuckholds when it comes to education

you can't make this shit up

>>9343635
>"Save" Math Education.

>>9343635
Let students stop after grade 5, if they want to, and offer all subsequent courses to students of any age. This way, only those with genuine interest will consume resources, and there's as little penalty as possible for returning to mathematics once you discover its beauty on your own.

>>9343635
Red pill everything that thinks slow down improve retention.

>>9343642
Holy shit, I've been looking for this for a year, since I lost the data on my old HDD. Thank you, anon!

>>9343635

I dont want normies near math OP

>>9343642
>Lua programming

>>9345511
It's very important for Dwarf Fortress modding and DFHack.

>>9343635
We can't. We're in the "why are we learning about math when they should teach us how to pay taxes" or "I'm never going to use math when I grow up, why should I learn it" era.

>>9345567
It's literally always been like this. Normal people don't give a shit about math. If you weren't an autistic neet this would be common knowledge

>>9343635
Stop hiring Education majors.
Fund Math/Education and pay them more.

>>9345781
This, the best way you can teach something abstract like math is if you actually understand instead of just memorizing meme methods and doing stupid songs.

bump

>>9345781
This will never happen. For obvious reasons, all teachers have banded together as a united class. If math teachers were elevated (as it should happen) the other teachers would be pissed.

Imagine this: All math teachers start getting paid double as they are (as they should) while all the other teachers get nothing because teaching English is nowhere near as important or delicate as teaching math. Those unions would riot and lobby like never before to be sure that either they get the benefits too, or the benefits originally for math teachers get watered down into benefits for all.

You just can't win. I really wish that being a mathematician was a strong political identity, and we were a separate class above the rest. That way we could easily use politics to our advantage and make it clear that others are inferior dogs compared to us, and that we ought to make 6 figures or even more. But we can't, especially not at the high school level.

A political union of college math professors is still possible though. I hope it happens.

>>9345598
No its worse now because people don't give a fuck about math AND they don't give a fuck that started teaching it the stupid way. They always used to teach it the smart way so that the smart people would notice the value but now, with common core, they are suppressing the features that made math historically attractive to a non vanishing minority

>>9345781
can't we have both?

>>9346037
i mean, that actually was to him: >>9345797

i agree that pedagogy graduates should stick to administrative, curriculum managing and research.

but i think it's extremely important to a professor to now lots about education. aside from learning lots about his class content.

>>9344063
how do you discipline

>>9343635
Does it need saving?
The more people that know math, the less valuable it becomes.
Master it and exploit the people that don't know it.
You don't hear hunters wishing their prey would learn what the traps look like and how they work so they can avoid them better.

In the thread... Austistic mathtards fantasize about their delusions of grandeur and immense importance, power, and prestige, to overcompensate for not having friends and never getting laid.

>>9346065
No doubt, problems that exist in the current system will continue to exist here. There would probably still be schools, or some system to ensure kids are spending proper time on each subject, and on all of them in total. But if the system is better, and more rewarding, and reacts and teaches on a more individual basis, I think they'd probably be more encouraged NOT to sherk it off.

>>9345994
t. undergrad

>>9345272
This is insane. And people tell we've become smarter as a society. Explain this then.

>>9346065
Why would you want to?

>inb4 some right wing cuck crap

>>9346231
We have more acces to higher learning so in average we are smarter. That doesn't mean we have a skewd distribution of geniuses. You are basically saying the extreme academic elitism reserved for a miniscule portion of the population is a representation of the average brain in a society, while, for a long time, peasants were completely ignorant beyond basic shit. College algebra is still bullshit though.

I only completed Business Calculus as I was a business major, and i feel like I missed out.

Where should I begin my math journey?

https://functionalcs.github.io/curriculum/

OR

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13bd6h0f-Oa-QCSIhQYLAjanVqTMe5ZwE13GCFrUmlLU/edit#gid=0

>>9343635

Kill p̶r̶o̵regressivism

>>9345781
fucking this, it was so blatantly obvious in highschool which ones were education majors and which ones were math/mathed majors

>>9346257
complete the full calculus stream: differential/integral/multivariate, ODEs. linear algebra too. then get an intro to proofs book. once you know how proofs work generally speaking, intro group theory, proof based linear algebra, and intro real analysis.

>>9346246
>We have more access to higher learning so in average we are smarter

Have you seen the pass rates in middle and high school? Access means nothing if people are willfully blind and ignorant.

>>9346260
>full calculus stream
Where at?

>>9346231
Niggers getting accepted into universities

>>9343642
lmao yeah implement this if you want a generation of VIRGINS

>>9345994
>teaching English isn't important
Imagine being this autistic

>>9346311
Imagine being autistic enough to fall for bait

>>9346328
Imagine being autistic enough to fall for this bait

>>9346263
>posts highschool exam score
nigger are you even trying

>>9346307
wow you got him

>>9346280
pirate a stewart book or use khanacademy or use paul's online notes

>>9346367
Imagine being autistic enough to fall for THIS bait

>>9346380
>stewart

>>9346384
those are 3 viable options for doing the introductory calc stream. pointing a noob to apostol or thomas is probably pointless.

>>9343642
This seems pretty reasonable desu. I was hella pissed to be taking alg 2 at 16

>>9343642
literally nothing wrong with this. only thing that's stopping that is the fact that current teachers and the teaching method is fucking arse, especially in the states where in lower end schools you have niggers doing the ooga booga dance all class and disrupt everone.

>>9346855
You couldn't even do it yourself anon

>>9346087
get out normie

>>9343642
99% of people wouldn't make it past grade 2 on time, you haven't even developed the capacity for abstract thought at 7/8 years old. Surefire way to make schooling irrelevant

>>9347485
>you haven't even developed the capacity for abstract thought at 7/8 years old

Jean Piaget is a fucking quack. Stop citing him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw33CBsEmR4

>>9347485
Bullshit.

>>9348193

Is there any actual evidence to this?

>>9346855
holy kek

>>9345781
You know someone with a Bachelor of Education has to have taken so many credit hours in math, if they want to teach math, right? The local university where I am requires 10 term-courses of university level math, which seems well in excess of what you'd need to teach a high schooler algebra and trig.

>>9346231

>>9343635

By telling me how to solve:

f´(2) if f(x)=x^2

>>9349999
take the limit as x approaches infinity

Lockharts lament

>>9349995
Assimilating niggers into our society is literally the only reason for this

>>9350008

I'm an actual fucking retard so I don't even know how to properly structurize it.

The answer should be 4, so I've been told, but I can't reach it on my own. I tried doing 0.1^2 and then 0.01^2 but that didn't get me anywhere. I feel so fucking stupid and subhuman. Please help me.

>>9350030
something something epsilon something something delta
Just take the derivative

>>9350047
>Just take the derivative

How? The definition of the derivative is f´(2).

>>9350053
f'(2) is a point on the derivative, the derivative is 2x

>>9350059
I'm completely lost.

I thought f´meant the angle.

>>9350059

f´(2) should mean that f(x) =2^2, right? Or what am I missing?

I know this is bait but in general the derivative of x^2 is 2x so all you need to do is plug in 2 and that will get you 4.
In symbols:
f(x)=x^2.
f'(x)=2x.
Let x=2.
f'(2) = 2*2 = 4.

in general the derivative with respect to x of any term (x^a, a != 0) is (a*x^(a-1), a != 0)

I say term because the this can also work over addition for polynomials like ax^a + bx^b + ... + 1.

this rule can be derived form the (limit) definition of the derivative which I will leave as an exercise.

>>9350073
f'(2)= 2*2 = 4

>>9350089

I will forever cherish this moment, the moment I was so genuinely retarded that an actual brainmore thought I was baiting.

You've helped me understand a little better, but I still don't understand why we can turn x into 2, unless you mean that we take the two from the f´(2) and just use that as an x, which makes the other: f(2)=2^2 instead of f(x)=x^2

>>9350105
f(x) = x^2
f'(x) = 2x
f'(2) = 2*(2) = 4

>>9350105
your welcome

But think about this. Even if i knew you didn't understand the post was still bait
or is it

>>9350114

Ah ok, I get it now, you replace the x in 2x with the 2, which makes it 2*2

If you think you are capable of making 90% of students fascinated by learning math and grab their attention for long in an age when they all have access to youtube, netflix, spotify, steam, facebook, instagram, twitter and so forth then you're delusional. The only way to make most kids to learn math is for them to be forced by their parents.

>>9343642
where is the non-troll version?

>>9350105
By definition the derivative notationally (f'(x))
is the slope of a line that shares the point with the function (f(x)) so for
f(x) = x^2.
For x = 2.
on the graph we would have the point (2,4)
so if you could find a line (function) that passes through this point but does not pass through any other part of x^2 then you can take the slope of this line and it would tell you the slope at that point (x = 2) of the graph x^2

The function f'(x) = 2x (the derivative) is just a way to generalize the slope of x^2 from one point to the entire domain.

>>9350030
So you want an intuitive understanding of the power rule?
try videos 3 and 4 of this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUvTyaaNkzM&list=PLZHQObOWTQDMsr9K-rj53DwVRMYO3t5Yr

>>9343635
>want to become a teacher
>would like to teach math in addition to other subjects
>don't have a math degree
Is there any way to redeem myself, my brainy masters? I don't see why I need to take all these advanced university level courses just to teach kids algebra, trig and some calculus. Am I the scum ruining today's children? Is there any way such a person could be a good math teacher?

>>9350118
thats... thats how all functions work anon.
Don't worry though, calculus has a way of making you forget earlier things.

>>9343635
Fix teachers first, I don't know how it is in other regions, but in Ontario primary school and middle school teachers have zero math education requirements. You can't expect someone to teach math decently if they haven't done it since grade 11, until teaching education is reformed math education will be stagnant.

>>9350141
It's not a troll.

>>9350141
No no anon, people here are unironically autistic enough to think like this

>>9350105
Imagine you want to know the average change between two points of a curve, lets say the curve [math]f(x) = x^2[/math]. The slope between the points [math]a[/math] and [math]b[/math] would be if [math]b>a[/math] [math]\frac{f(b) - f(a)}{b - a}[/math].

Now you want to know the slope at a specific point of the curve to do this you make the interval smaller [math]\frac{f(x+h) - f(x)}{x + h - x}[/math] where [math]h[/math] is a small number say maybe 0.01. The limit is when a number goes closer towards a number so we take [math]\lim_{h \to_ 0} \frac{f(x+h) - f(x)}{x + h - x} = \frac{(x+h)^2 - x^2}{h} = \frac{x^2 + 2xh + h^2 - x^2}{h} = 2x + h = 2x[/math] and now we have the function for [math]f'(x)=2x[/math]

>>9350221
Just understand said courses (as well as their applications) really well.
Unfortunately, and especially with calculus, many teachers have no other answer to "why?" than "that's what The Rule says". In order to teach well, you need an intuitive mastery (NOT rote memorization) of the topic you intend to teach.

>>9350221
If you need an intuitive understanding of calculus, check out this playlist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUvTyaaNkzM&list=PLZHQObOWTQDMsr9K-rj53DwVRMYO3t5Yr

>>9350248
>>9350219
sorry, I think I meant this: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZHQObOWTQDMsr9K-rj53DwVRMYO3t5Yr

>>9350073

f'(2) just means the slope of f(x) at x = 2.

and f'(x) = 2x by the power rule

>>9350237
Well, that's what my intention was. I tutored math at the trades school I went to (barely high school level stuff) and I'd always look up proofs for all the algebra and trig related stuff we'd do. That way I could tell students where the formulae for the volume or surface area of a sphere came from, etc.

>>9343642
Barely anyone would pass

>>9343642
primary and highschool teachers aren't gonna be this qualified any time soon

>>9350896
Participation prizes are worthless.

>>9350896
Covering more topics has a higher likelihood that any given noninterested student would become interested and thus take an active role in their math education which in turn would increase pass rates

>>9349995
Source? A huge amount of the flynn effect is attributed to improvements in nutrition (same with height actually), I see no reason to believe that as impoverished countries develop further that the IQ would somehow drop.

Especially when we're able to properly adapt IQ tests to different cultures, rather than relying on a west-centric view of important cognitive attributes (particularly in regards to what sorts of puzzles or styles of pattern recognition we use).

>>9350134
This. Though teachers need to be able to control their classrooms, a huge amount of people just flat out don't give a shit about high school education. A good amount of people who are successful at university studies still don't care until they're already there, because it's easy as fuck to cruise through high school on pretty good marks.

>>9350896
Literally no-one would pass, it's either an absolute autist or a troll.

Stats alone takes a fair few sessions at university level, and they want to teach it to a comprehensive level in 9th grade.

>>9349995
>It doesn't even start at 100
Try harder

>>9351165
That would make sense, tests are only standardised to 100 as average in certain populations, but he didn't provide a source, and there's absolutely no reason to believe that claim, so it's clearly bullshit.

>>9348193
>how i wrote a longass blogpost about an anecdote

>>9351316
>how everything that doesn't confirm muh bias is an anecdote

>>9351322
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdote
This should help you

>>9343635
Separate boys and girls into different schools, so that girls won't hold back boys anymore.

Stop being so fucking obtuse about geometry and trig. Jesus christ show us a chart that explain the relationship of tan/sin/cos/sec/cot/csc on a unit circle and maybe everybody will stop hating math because you threw difficult concepts on them with in the most obtuse possible fucking way.
Every single maths major I've met told me they never thought they'd major in it before they got past trig and actually understood what the absolute fuck was going on with all that angle bullshit.

>>9351329
but trig is easy?

>>9351329
I agree with this sentiment. I've always had some intuition in math, but I think most people struggle because they're never given a good perspective on the concepts being taught. The bigger issue is that what you learn in second grade depends on what you learn in first grade, what you learn in third depends on second, etc. If you don't develop the fundamentals down and get an intuition for math early, then you'll just fall for the misconception that some people "get math" and others don't.

>>9351335
It's not for 99% of people when they're first introduced to it because nothing is explained and the trigonometric functions are just "there" and they "do stuff", how they actually work is rarely explained leaving people in the dark and left to just rote memorize the common unit circle positions.

>>9346231
>We live in a society where the majority of people are retards like you and believe everything they see on the internet
Truly our society has degraded

Institute formal logic as one of the core subjects taught from early on in elementary school. Nothing too difficult- basic proofs after learning the basic expressions (conditional, negation, conjunction, disjunction), and whatever else is appropriate based on how kids receive the new curriculum.

By introducing logic, and treating all other subjects as logical systems (history, language, etc.), it tears down the walls between mathematics and any other subject, and gets kids to be able to form better arguments and perform math a lot easier.

>>9348193
>change diet of kid to include more fruits and vegatables and he becomes a superhuman calculator
Classic veganfag propaganda

Though, in all seriousness, this is completely unbelievable.
4 hours per week for 4 months are less than 70 hours, and in this time period a 6-year old is supposed to have learned Algebra? This is not even anecdotal evidence, it's a complete fabrication

>>9351438
this is what liberal rationalists dream about

>>9351458
Is it? I don't know much about that, but logic is important, and is the basis of all systematic approaches to understanding.

>>9351329
Agreed completely. I fucking hated maths in high school, my teachers presented it as just "know this because you have to know this".

When I hit uni level stuff and teachers started to actually explain the concepts behind what we were doing, and what the fuck it all meant I changed my mind completely.

Improving the quality of maths education isn't going to happen by trying to force children to learn advanced concepts they clearly are not going to be able to grasp, or by increasing courseload, it just requires you to engage the kids in the content more. Try to teach them what they fuck they're even doing, it'll improve their comprehension and ability to grasp more advanced concepts and also teach them whether they actually like the topic or not.

>>9351338
>Show the concept of similar triangles. If by now you don't understand proportionality drop out.
>Maybe even prove shit with thales theorem
>Show angle criteria for similarity
This can be done in half a week if you don't strech it and skip many detaiks in the proofs.
>Show then the definition of sine cosine and tangent wrt to right angled triangles
>Because of the little time it took to show it onlt depends on the angle, we can then start talking about them as wwll defined functions
>From this, you can show most shit, even the weird identities
>Pose geometric problems to show how trig makes them easier (all still using triangles
>Show how the values wete computed (pre calculus) so the class autists doesn't blow his brains out because he thinks it's all circular argumenta.
This is done in 2 weeks and a half to two weeks depending on how many problems you show (and the level of alumni obviously).
>Pass to the unit circle and teach them it's just because a coordinate system uses fucking right angle triangles, and there's nothing magical about it
>With rhe unit circle explain the values of the graph of sine and cosine and from that the values of all the other memes
Maybe a week?
There's literally nothing more to it. There's no geand theory of trig, it's just a branding of methods used in Euclidean geometry to solve problems. Now, obviously the thoughest part is actually solving balls to the walls tough problems, which can be tedious as you will probably need other geometric tools to do them, and well, at the end you could rederive the sum of anlges identity every time, or just say well fuck it let's memorize it. I suppose cheat shits are acceptable, but inany cases it changes nothing as the drooling moron in tour average math class isn't remotely interested in that shit. Also, the trig problems in an average high school are fucking easy, no more than applying the definition and basic identities.

>>9351480
How often do you think people in high school do maths? We probably had three or so classes of it a week. You're not going to get any of that shit done in the time frames you said.

Maybe if we're talking about actual uni style courses where you can dedicate more time significantly to the topic each week, and are expected to do a good amount of study outside of lectures and tutorials.

They generally put about half a term to a term to trig from memory, though I haven't done it in a long time, so they can afford to give kids the time to do questions with any concept they introduce, as they introduce it.

It's obviously easy shit once you're well past it, but for someone who only knows pretty much basic algebra, it's not at all.

I just wish someone told me math was important before I got to high school (I went to a dumb Catholic school). I thought I was going to be a math teacher for a long time because I loved math but I thought it was just a dumb novelty no one would pay you to do.

>>9351495
>We probably had three or so classes of it a week
Jesus Christ. Private school boy here, we had two hours of math every day. I am so sorry your parents were poor.

>>9350930
maybe if a math grads actually started volunteering at their local schools this would actually start happening

>>9343635
Have someone other than a pajeet, chinc, or autist teach it.

>>9348193
not only fake but that’s a whyte child. whyte male children are not noglings or spiclets anon

>>9351480
>It's easy for everybody because it's easy now!
I fucking loathed mathematics, in particular trig, when I took it in highschool and in my first attempt at college. Now I'm graduating with my Masters in it. Take a step back you haughty negroid.

>>9348193
>I magically took parental control over this emotionally distraught, neglected, medication addled child! AND I taught him Algebra before he even understood basic multiplication tables!

>>9348193
algebra's easy

>>9346065
discipline should never have been the school's responsibility in the first place

My name jeff

>>9352339
In reality it is, since public school is legally mandated 8 hour daycare for 12 years.

>>9352315
>>9351495

I'm not saying it's a breeze. It's fucking tedious a gay. But I don't understand when people say they "don't get trig". The theory is basically just geometry. obviously the difficult part is learning all tge stupis tricks and identities, but that's just memorization...

>>9351952
/thread

>>9344063
This sounds really amazing. I have never heard something like that before.

>>9351843
One third of class time going to maths would just mean you're neglecting other subjects, there's really nothing to boast about there.

Going to private school doesn't change the overarching curriculum.

>>9352554
Because it's a pretty new concept I imagine, you're not used to applying algebra to actual problems at that point, just stuff like 2x=6 what is x?

Trigonometry is generally absolutely awfully explained, and you need to spend the time for the kids to get used to doing questions like that to feel comfortable applying the same or similar theory to more advanced topics.

It's not hard once you're past it, but with the limited time a school curriculum gives to it and the amount of effort a teacher needs to put into making the kids at least not disruptive a lot of the time, plus kids just not giving a shit, it takes a lot longer than it should.

>>9343642
>Lua
fucking why

>>9351455 >>9351969 >>9352322
see
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/rave-mehta/reclaiming-our-world-rank_b_6413910.html

>>9353960
>still no proof

No-one was denying the article existed, just that it was bullshit.


You don't think that if there was a method that was that insanely effective at teaching kids maths, that we wouldn't be using it? He's not exactly doing anything complex, yet is claiming he taught a six year old like fucking 5 years worth of content in what? A few months? With a few hours a week?

Either he was tutoring someone who was just some latent fucking prodigy that would spend every spare moment doing maths work, or it's a made up story.

Which seems more likely?

>>9353972
You're assuming we're teaching as much as we can in grades 1-6. We waste the vast amount of time doing next to nothing since teachers want to teach next to nothing and hate that standardize testing even makes them teach anything at all.

>>9353985
You're assuming that children are willing and able to pay attention for 100% of the lesson each day at school day.

While you're right that we could be doing more in classrooms (and I think that's partially on quality of teachers, we should pay more and increase the difficulty of teaching courses to make them more competitive), there's absolutely no way that he's taught the kid as much as he's claiming in the time frame he's claiming. As I said, he's teaching several years worth of content in a few months, with like twelve hours a month, using pretty much the same methods as maths classes already do. It's not at all believable.

>>9352840
I'm sure I'm not the first person to imagine something like that. It seems like we need a system that provides better data, and is more personalized, i.e. more reactive to individual students in terms of both responsiveness to a given method of teaching and their overall pace independent of other students. It would probably be much more effective, and much cheaper in the long run. I could see implementing it first as a tool for people that homeschool their kids, maybe like a foot in the door sort of thing.

>>9344063
The concept existed for a long time, eventually technology is going to be used as a more proficient knowledge dispenser and teachers will be able to teach other things. Skinner had the idea and proved it first.

>>9351495
I would say the average highschools in The United States of America have 5 math classes a week with 1 hour scheduled and about 5-10 minutes worth of learning

>>9353057
>Because it's a pretty new concept I imagine, you're not used to applying algebra to actual problems at that point, just stuff like 2x=6 what is x?
No? Even in my third world shithole, we always get word problems that we need to change into algebra or whatever. Also, it's not a new concept, is geometry just not taught at all in America?
>Trigonometry is generally absolutely awfully explained, and you need to spend the time for the kids to get used to doing questions like that to feel comfortable applying the same or similar theory to more advanced topics.
Again, the point is that there is really nothing to explain. If you understand proportionality and pythagoras theorem, you are good to go. There's just a lot of weird identities and tedious shit that you can only master through grinding. I understand the feeling on not wanting just to memorize shit but understand it, and while trig has shit you can "get", a lot of it is just remembering.
>It's not hard once you're past it, but with the limited time a school curriculum gives to it and the amount of effort a teacher needs to put into making the kids at least not disruptive a lot of the time, plus kids just not giving a shit, it takes a lot longer than it should.
There's plenty of awful teachers, but even in really elitists expensive private schools were I've taught, were they have acces to everything, a lot of kids fail trig because they are not willing to spend some time in their afternoons practicing problems, ask questions, or in general give a shit. My point being, we should segregate by high school into more specific vocational paths. I also agree a lot of teachers have no clue, and just regurgitate shit and cannot inspire kids to learm by their own merits, but there there's always a group of kids that actually do the work, come and ask me questions and research shit beyond the course in their own time, and surprise, surprise, most of them aren't angry antisocial nerds who need to be spoonfed.

>>9354665
>5-10 minutes worth of learning

Absolutely not, try half an hour or so. Kids not listening doesn't mean that teachers aren't teaching.

>>9354701
>No? Even in my third world shithole, we always get word problems that we need to change into algebra or whatever

Which is still just the same thing I said, very basic algebra. You're not used to applying the concepts to problems in that way. Geometry is something, but not really equivalent.

>Also, it's not a new concept, is geometry just not taught at all in America?

I have no idea.

>I understand the feeling on not wanting just to memorize shit but understand it, and while trig has shit you can "get", a lot of it is just remembering.

Not really, you can absolutely explain reasons behind the equations. Just memorizing shit is one of the worst ways to actually learn.

>a lot of kids fail trig because they are not willing to spend some time in their afternoons practicing problems, ask questions, or in general give a shit

No argument here, I think pretty much everyone is capable of passing it if they're willing to put in literally any amount of work.

>My point being, we should segregate by high school into more specific vocational paths

Disagree completely. Loads of people that end up excelling in university or later do shit in high school, it's ridiculous to start segregating people off when their life choices are nearly always going to be poor. In the last couple years of high school it is more that way, but still all within the same schools, and based off interest. Trying to split it off by high school into specific vocations when most people have no idea what they actually want to do at that age doesn't really make sense.

>>9354721
You know what? I am sure that a feels > reals approach to math would probably work.

Plus Wildberger's philosophy on teaching math directly infuses a love for math instead of just "you need to compute compute"

>>9349999
Take the derivative of f with respect to x. This equals 2x. Evaluate 2x when x = 2. The answer is 4.

>>9350105
I don't mean to insult you, but I believe you need help understanding what a function is, or at the very least function notation.

>>9351438
Yes!!

>>9354701
Um, modeling geometry is extremely intuitive. Algebra models aren't.

And to answer your question, no, we don't model in US public schools. We rote learn formulas and tricks to pass exit exams. Only honors students in separate classes get to actually learn things because they aren't time constrained.

Hence why the drop out rate is so high for stem in the US. People literally have to relearn algebra and trig to keep up once the math gets "real". dynamics etc.

>>9351464
Agreed. Unfortunately it's all but ignored when in fact it is the most important tool in determining valid and therefore possibly true statements. People act as if there is no objective way to analyze the validity of a conclusion.

>>9354885
What the fuck does algebra models have to do with trig? I refuse to believe you didn't have problems were you need to identify triangles in some configuration.

>>9343642
This would literally advance humanity millennia. Only in dreams, anons.

>>9343635
Get rid of the excuses.

No, don't sit there and stress out overthinking teaching and learning methods. You need to force a basic level of discipline and focus before the rest is even worth thinking about.

No more grade inflation. Not even if other departments whine because Calc 2 is taking out too many of "their" students.
No more passing people who don't know the material.
No more giving leeway or even special attention to the "disadvantaged" and/or "minorities".

If that isn't going to happen, then time spent stressing over the details of how math is taught is wasted.

Kill all chads

Chads stop making babies

Math scores instantly improve

Also kill stupid faggots who can't do 6th grade math

Maybe like a primer to calculus in grade 9 as a prereq to show people why they are learning seemingly pointless shit.

I dropped out of highschool in grade 10 never even learning algebra 1 and I recieved a bs in mech eng in my 20's. While I'm definitely an exception I don't believe that the issue is people are stupid or that intermediate math is an IQ filter. I feel like only an autist who's still bitter about his highschool experience could possibly think this. I don't believe there's anything conceptually challenging about algebra, trig, or calculus to someone within a deviation of normal intelligence.

It took me sitting around wondering about material stresses and how to optimize design as an uneducated 21 year old to realize I need math and physics and why having intuitive knowledge of algebra was imperative for both.

A lot of this is the parents job, but majority of parents are uneducated. They don't know the math or the point of the math. School system needs to level with kids instead of just going through the motions. They need to explain the purpose of these seemingly pointless algebra puzzle games. Because most kids don't have parents that give a fuck.. There's no reward for what they see as pointless busy work. A students are A students because of the parental or peer reward, they arent necessarily intelligent.

There's a lot of other innate issues with standardized learning, but I think the above is a simple and quick way to motivate students that are bored which is probably the biggest issue outside of our culture of ignorance.

>>9354885
>And to answer your question, no, we don't model in US public schools. We rote learn formulas and tricks to pass exit exams. Only honors students in separate classes get to actually learn things because they aren't time constrained.

That was in the past. Honors classes now are the new regular, regular classes are remedial, and remedial classes are breeding sessions for apes.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/12/algebra-courses-honors/1978801/

>>9356134

>>9343635
Be like China
>Oh shit, ching ling ting, your grades are shit
>To the factories with you

>>9345516
And there are industrial PLCs that use Lua based instructions

>>9343635
Stop the use of calculators on basic math....

Start using furlongs per fortnight for our units

>>9343635
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaUlqXRPMmY

Shift from BABYlonian to Greek math, pretty simple.

teach math like singapore/hong kong

>>9344107
??? I know a load of CS students who appreciate math and enjoy it but still aren't very good. not hating and being good at math is not a biconditional