/sci/ - Science & Math

Maybe

Consciousness is pattern

I believe that math is a consequence of some sort of ability we have to introspect on how our brain processes information about the world. Everything we are is represented through that underlying system. So basically I think it's the lowest level description of reality possible. The objective world is just a bunch of inputs that get fed into our brains as variables. The meat of our experience comes from the models we construct with that data.

>>9305782
did not answer op's question at all you can stop masturbating now

>>9305762
Depends what you define as real. From the coherence theory, yes, math is real. In terms of correspondence it may not be, but so what, it's pragmatic.

>>9305762
Yes unless you're reddit.

I've wondered myself, actually. I think the answer is yes. We perceive things in a certain way with certain terms, yes, but just because our perspective is semantic does not discount the consistency of our findings. So, I'm pretty sure math is legit.

In the strict sense where real is what's physically tangible, no, but in another sense, if it can be applied to the world then it's real, like time is real because we can observe its passage

>>9305784

He provided a complex answer to a complex question brainlet

>>9305762
Well, math as an action we do is real. Math as a collection of objects isn't, as the objects of math are not real objects. They are ideas that don't really exist. Even fundamental stuff like Pythagoras' theorem are only approximations of whatever happens in the real world.

1+1=2? Why? Because if you buy an apple and then buy another apple then you get two apples? What if you buy an apple but then when you buy the second one a black hole appears swallowing both your apples and then a vortex opens and shoots a single apple back to you? 1+1=1. It could happen.

It is just that in the real world 1+1 most of the times equals 2. And 1+1 most of the times is not equal to 1. That's all.

>>9305784

Lol, were you expecting a "yes" or "no" answer?

Asking "is math real" is like asking "are words real". The question isn't really well framed, so you have to reframe it.

>>9305762
Math is more real than our physical reality; it's hyper-real. Our universe is the imperfect material expression of perfect mathematics.

>>9305782
>So basically I think it's the lowest level description of reality possible
Isn't philosophy more fundamental than mathematics?

>>9305826
Logic is fundamental to math, and logic was one of the six branches of classical philosophy.

>>9305826

Not really. There are lots of assumptions in most philosophical traditions. Western philosophers attempting to objectively describe the world have recognized that and have been working towards lower and more abstract descriptions with fewer and fewer assumptions. The Principia Mathematica is a great example.

>>9305854

Math and logic are basically the same thing; math is formalized logic.

I suppose you could consider philosophy more fundamental if you think of logic as a philosophy thing and math as something that sits on top of it. It's just a matter of semantics as to which one you think is more important at that point.

>>9305810
He provided a complex answer that did not answer OP's original question. Answering what math is, or what math does, does not answer whether or not math is real.

>>9305815
>isn't really well framed,

It's not well framed, period. Reframing the question, and providing an unrelated answer are two completely different things.

>>9305762
2+2=4
- 1
that's 3

If math applies to reallity then it is real skrrrra pompomp boom

>>9305820
IMO I think it's more like there's the physical universe, and for lack of a better word there's a universe of pure thought. Maybe our bodies exist in one of these and our mind/souls exist in the other. Math exists in both.

>>9305762
>[math]A=2\pi r^2[/math]
this math certainly isn't real

Imagine someone offers you the following deal. On the first day they'll give you $1. The second day give they'll give you $2. The third day they'll give you $3. This goes on in the same fashion so that on the n-th day they'll give you $n, for all eternity. A mathematician immediately sees that the guy is trying to steal 1/12 of a dollar from you. If you didn't know math you might fall for his trick and believe he gives you money for free.

>>9305762
yeah. numbers are basically what greeks thought to be distances. for example 3 steps you take to reach there it's the 3 number meaning 3 distance. or whatever unit the greeks used.

it's real and it helps us to understand what's going around us. if you think what is happening around you as real then math is real.

>>9305762
>Is math real?
The real world details modeled by math are real. Math itself is an abstraction of patterns and is as real or non-real as other abstractions like money, language, music, or games are. The US dollar, gerunds, the Mixolydian mode, and Blackjack can't be picked up and held in your hand like a physical object, but we do behave around these abstractions in a way that gives them some degree of pseudo-reality.

math is a tool we use to measure the different interactions of our universe

>>9305762
yes