/sci/ - Science & Math

just a dumb meme when they can't even produce enough cars

>>9301416
I feel like they shouldn't have gone for a long haul semi. I think that building a truck for the "Last Mile" would have been a better bet.

Would make a comfy motor home.

>>9301503
True but I think this was more for propaganda purposes. Now they can say "look at how electric is becoming the powerhouse of the world".

Also the price ranges may have made for sense,

Like a really overpriced longhaul might be more worth it then a really expensive shorthaul.

Also it may be easier to get charging stations incorporated into long distance 'interstate' truck stops.

>>9301503
>>9301512
*teleports behind you*

>>9301503
The strategy behind going after the long haul semi is to kill the ICE. Fuel density isn't particularly important when you can only turn about 40% of it into energy anyway.

Dat torque tho

>>9301666
>kill the ICE
what do you mean by this?

>>9301684

Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

They use diesel-powered semis to hunt Mexicans.

Truck driver here... unless it can go four hundred miles with a thirty minute charge time (or battery swap), it's DOA.

>>9301423

This. They can't even figure out their manufacturing process out yet, let alone think about the economics of using a 500mi hauling semi.

it definitely has potential, but it prepare to only see these as short trip haulers in niched metropolitan areas such as the bay area and east coast cities.

Also, the supplemented energy source will have to come from somewhere (powerplants) if they decide to do away with diesel.

>>9301803

They'll love it in Phoenix... they're really gay about emissions there.

>>9301416
I mean we are talking about the company that wants to use rockets to take people to different sides of the world

>>9301850
That, at least, is a pretty solid idea. If the rocket can be made to be as reusable as an airplane anyway. The idea has been around since ICBMs became a thing.

>>9301860
It's beyond foolish. Not to mention no time will be saved considering people have to be transported to remote locations and shit before even being hurled by a rocket. Also, there's all kinds of shit which can cause a launch to simply be canceled.

It doesn't make any sense at all. Only retards find it kewl and le futuristic and reddit interesting kys.

>>9301872
>considering people have to be transported to remote locations and shit
and when you take the plane you don't have to be transported to the airport?

>>9301872
This, we should just go back to supersonic planes.

Concorde was top tier.

>>9301416
Question: do these things have big solar panels on the tops of the cab and trailer? They should.

>>9301780
No it won't, because the cost savings on diesel will be enormous.

Companies will always adapt if it means saving money.

>>9301511
This.

>>9301416
Literally every single automobile is going to be electric some point in the future. Its not a dumb idea, its just the first generation tech of that sector. Everyone who knows anything knows you never buy first generation tech. Let the morons beta test it and buy the next version with all the bugs worked out.

>>9301888
>solar panels on the tops of the cab and trailer?

Did some rough math real quick. A large semi (53 feet) would produce 39kwh of energy per day if it had solar on it's trailer's roof.
>from wiki ~ "1 US gallon of fuel is equivalent to =33.7kwh, according to the US Department of Energy.[6] This electric truck uses 2 kilowatt-hours per mile"
Seems adding solar panels only be dead weight.

>>9301780
It can go 500 on a charge apparently, and at least one company has preordered some for midrange routes on the west coast.

>>9301416
>Liions are low energy density as fuck.
Semis are specialized at carrying large, heavy loads. They can take as many batteries as they need. 500 mile range, charges to 400 miles in 30 minutes, compared to 15 minutes to refuel a diesel. It's true that diesels have a longer range, but the drivers need the rest stops anyway.

Because they consume a lot of energy, it's a big deal to save on energy cost, a much bigger deal than for the typical domestic car.

The specifics on the Tesla semi look really good. The performance, reliability, and safety features are huge. Diesel semis have a real performance problem. It makes them hard to drive in traffic and, as Musk pointed out in the presentation, they're stuck at well under highway speed on a 5% incline. Being able to go 65 mph uphill makes these an immediate must-have for mountain routes. With reversible, direct-drive motors on every wheel, the traction control is incomparable. I believe them when they claim that jackknifing one of these trucks will be impossible. And with the schedule pressures truckers are under, the ability to stay in lane and slow to a stop if driver input is lost will save many lives.

>>9301416
But it's reusable...

>>9301972
Interesting. So we're going to need a fuck-ton more generating capacity. do you have any ideas on how we"ll be able to get the tree-hug crowd to embrace more nukes plants?

>>9302013
>be me
>reading truck thread
>see "kwh"
>trucks
>read it as "kilo wheels"
>"You think those 18-wheelers are road-hogs, check ut my new 39,000-wheeler good buddy!"
>chortle slightly

Recuperating from surgery, need the entertainment I can get.

>>9301503
Ford already cucked Tesla out of that market

>>9302065
Hyperloop for 390000 wheelers when?

>>9301780
It can. 400 miles charge, 80%, in 30 minute.

>>9302065
>get in cab
>back of the truck is at origin
>drive forward ten feet
>front of truck is at destination

>>9301780
>unless it can go four hundred miles with a thirty minute charge time
That's exactly what it can do.

It can also go 65 mph up a 5% incline, has reversible motors on each wheel giving it unprecedented traction control, and can stay in the lane, slow to a halt, and put on your four-way blinkers if you fall dead asleep at the wheel, or just keep you from drifting out of your lane if you conk out for a few seconds.

The killer feature is a convoy function, where two self-driving semis can follow a human-driven leader for a long highway haul. While this is likely to be allowed only on select routes, it is likely to be allowed almost immediately when these come onto the market.

well, elon claimed in a Ted talks interview that the truck;

"could beat a conventional diesel truck in a tug war, going uphill"

and that

"it can turn like a sports car."

"i drove it around a parking lot, and i couldnt believe how easily it could take sharp turn"

its supposed to be a truck specifically designed to rival the diesel ones. should we trust our goyim elon? he hasnt lied about the physical details of any of his shit before

>at least physical details, scheduling is a whole other thing.

>>9302013
so its roughly 16 miles for every equivalent in Kwh that a gallon of fuel has? so effectively 16 miles to the gallon.
thats fucking insane, average semi trucks get like 5-8 miles per gallon

boys, is elon really amping up his green game?

>how much stored energy does it hold?

>>9301955
?
It's going to cost fucking 500,000+ for the huge amount of batteries needed
These high density batteries are fucking bombs too

>>9302216
so far his electric vehicles are just vanity memes for liberals, and hopefully they lose their tax credit so we aren't subsidizing those liberals

Like, they can't produce enough batteries for small cars, but they can manage to make semi's? Why do they announce shit thats 5+ years off

>>9302053
not even just stop, these things are supposed to be getting some of that self driving stuff in too. and in december or so he said they where gonna have the first self driving car drive from l.a to new york with no one touching the wheel the whole way there, they also plan on dynamically changing the route to make it harder for the car.

this thing can get about 16 miles per "gallon"
(1 gallon of fuel = roughly 33.7 kwh, the trick can get a mile out of 2 kwh)
it also has a surprisingly high horsepower, enough to consistently be able to move faster and maneuver quicker than a diesel even with a full load.

he said it has two battery configurations as well; one for 300 mile trips, and ond for 500 mile trips on a single full charge.

boys, it doesnt even have to refuel in 500 miles with the long haul battery pack full charged. is the future finally getting here?

first boston dynamics fucks the worlds perception of clanky slow robots with the new spotmini and atlas videos. now this?

>>9301684
Internal Combustion Engine

>>9302263
hvae you seen the new mega factories he is making? he has already halfway built one, and is planning starting the building of around 4 new ones very soon. with how quickly only half of the first one is churning out. its safe to say he is very much getting to the lithium battery supply problem

>>9301416
I am 100% up for shitting on Elon Musk.
Jokes aside though the this was most likely just a giant PR shit by tesla to get more media attention and reddit worship

>>9301850
This

>>9302263
>so we aren't subsidizing
>we
Don't act like you aren't a NEET/undergrad, you're on fucking /sci/

>>9302263
>so far his electric vehicles are just vanity memes for liberals
They're pretty nice luxury cars, and the customer base is far from just "liberals". Tesla got started in sports cars, remember.

>>9301416
>>9301503
>>9301512
It takes on one fifth of global petroleum need basically, they can make a scooter, sure, but that doesn't make any difference.

>>9301423
> Can even cars.
Tesla makes cars for about $35,000
The power cell alone costs THEM $10,000 to make.
You can pick up a low range standard for about $20,000
You're telling me he's doing cars wrong?
Keep in mind all production is based in the USA, one of the most expensive places to produce anything.
Elon's goal is to get the cost down as they fine tune production.

Explain to me why a car with currently VERY expensive parts, is on par with a Toyota 4runner with cheap shit parts that has been made in China by slave labor, and will have an ever increasing cost to run, compared to a car that has nothing as a running cost?

> A truck that will not need a driver to operate.
> Drive better than a human could.
> longer range quicker driving.
Why are these guys so retarded?
Whose going to want to load up a truck, that you can drive across the country without stopping for fuel or driver sleep or eating breaks, all for cheaper than the cost of the old fashioned way?

>>9302595
35,000, with a 10 grand subsidy that will disappear soon

>>9301872
> Futuristic
A flight from London to New York use to take 3 and a half hours.
> Half a CENTURY ago......
> We have the ability now to do it in about half that.
> People DON'T want to get places fast!!!!!!
> That's why we all travel by pony and hot air balloons.

A....A-are you retarded?

Ask anyone in business class if they want to get there in half the time for double the price.
Ask sports stars and the political class if they want to do a trans Atlantic flight that takes less time than their dinner on the flight, but it will cost TEN times the amount.

>>9302608
Ok?

there is not enough cobalt and lithium for all these powerpacks so the price will rise and rise and rise. fine for your 100k sportscar but can you electrify the planet? we will see

>>9302611
They won't though. They'll have to take a slow boat ride of 1 hour to some platform out in the ocean, be loaded on the rocket, then have the launch canceled due to some small aircraft screwing around 10 kilometers from the platform.

Retard.

It's not reliable, economically sound, safe, or anything.

>>9302250

The batteries need to be replaced after a max of 150,000 miles, and they run $45,000 apiece just on their sedans...so, (conservative estimate) figure $100,000 replaced six times over the typical million mile lifespan of a typical long haul semi...compare this to $150,000 for a Cascadia, with maybe $100,000 in maintenance costs over that time...

We saving money yet? kek

>>9302226
Don't forget regenerative breaking can double fuel efficiency.

>>9302200
that's fucking genius

>>9302611
>Ask anyone in business class if they want to get there in half the time for double the price.
They don't. That's why Concorde had a hard time making a go of it.

Think of it this way: with a little thoughtful scheduling, you can take an 8-10 hour flight in business class with a spacious, reasonably comfy bed chair, and get a good night's sleep you needed anyway, so it effectively takes no time, or you can ride sitting upright in a cramped seat for 4-5 hours, and miss every hour you spent as a loss.

With a half-hour rocket ride, you don't have to plan it around your sleep schedule. You can just go. And if they can compete with economy ticket prices, that's a whole other story. Long economy rides are hellish.

>>9302659
>They'll have to take a slow boat ride of 1 hour to some platform out in the ocean
They can do all of the processing and customs stuff on the boat, so it won't be worse than going to an airport, where you have to be there early.

>then have the launch canceled due to some small aircraft screwing around 10 kilometers from the platform.
That's not something inherent to rocket launches, that's just the protocol left over from when rocket launches were rare.

>>9302595

Hey now, Toyota is pretty much the most American car you can buy, at this point.

Also, serious feels that pic related will never be sold again

>>9301416
>itt people who don't understand market forces
If Musk makes a thing, it's because that thing is going to do something else, or make him some money so he can do something else. He doesn't do memes.

>>9303024

Keep your shit taste in vehicles on another board, please.

>>9302728
concorde was a lot more than double the price for not half the travel time
And it wasn't profitable at the prices it charged either

>>9301416
>Does the Tesla semi seem dumb to you?

They are not living creatures and thus can not speak, ergo they are dumb. If you give them some AI and a speaker then they wouldn't be dumb. The real question here is, "OP is a faggot". I guess that is more is a statement of fact than a question.

>>9302272
>mega factories

"Gigafactory"

I'm an Electrical engineer for Ford Motor Company. I'm based out of Dearborn MI. Elon and Tesla is a meme. It won't be in 50 years but it is now. He has no clue what he's doing getting himself into mass vehicle production and he's shitting the bed royally.

They have headhunters trying to poach from Ford, Chrysler and GM daily. They are fucking hemmoraghing money and literally can only stay afloat with the carbon credits they sell us.

I turned down a job as a production manager for them for a 3rd time a few weeks ago. NA auto manufacturers are letting him weep and took getting it going and we'll just observe and get her knowledge.

Hybrids will dominate the next 50 years. After that it'll be a different energy source.

Ford may or may not be working on supercaps and also be heavily invested in fusion.

If anyone wants the guys email for a job let me know. You need a degree and experience in manufacturing and heavy automation. They'll take fucking anyone.

The problem is trucks in the first place when we never should've destroyed the rail networks

>>9303359
Yeah, I was just thinking about how efficient the rails are in comparison to planes and trucks. They just can't go everywhere because no rails. Wouldn't it be cool as fuck having rails and tunnels literally everywhere? Like if we never invented cargo trucks or cargo planes. We just made trains and rails better.

>>9303364
That's basically what Europe and North America was like 120 years ago

>>9303353
>I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals
You'd have sounded older than 14 to some people if you left out the stuff about supercaps and fusion.

>>9301416
Really fucking stupid. It may work in America because it's not as cold and doesn't have as many steep inclines and declines. In Canada this shit is gonna be fucked-having to drive on ice, steep inclines, super heavy loads, little to no visibility in the winter. This is suited for coastal cities where it doesn't get as cold, and light loads or heavy ones over a small distance. They're also suited for small range routes where you can go and come back within one charge.

>>9302147
>80%, in 30 minute.
is this true? sounds dangerous

>>9303364
In olden times more companies used to have a rail connection.

Trucks should precede rail in most cases, where heavily trucked routes should yield a rail-line in most cases.

>>9303359
Freight trains still take at least 40% of all total tonnage of cargo in the USA. The USA is unmatched in its cargo rail despite us lagging behind in trains for people.

>>9303516
How much does coastal / river shipping take?

How about coast-to-coast via Panama canal?

>>9303391
What are you talking about? It has much more power to climb up slopes (can do 65 mph where diesels can only do 45 mph), and the fast-response, reversible motors on each wheel give it far better traction control on ice than any engine-driven truck could have.

And the range is 500 miles (800 kilometers), a full day's driving, if you're not doing overtime. It's true that this would be ill-suited to some routes to remote locations, but that's not most of the Canadian trucking business, and nobody said they had to replace all of the diesel trucks everywhere.

All you need is a charging station every 600 km, connected to grid power, then they can go beyond the last one another 300-400 km. They only need 12 stations along the Trans-Canada Highway for the first Tesla trucks to be able to ship from Halifax to Vancouver.

>>9303550
>Electric Cars in Canadian Winter

This I would like to see.

>>9302226
well they use Diesel which is 38kWh per gallon. So it's more like 19 mpg up from the average estimate 6.5

why doesnt Elon musk use his spacex rocket to launch our trash into the sun

>>9303563
Just keep the batteries warm, and there's no problem. Charging and discharging them both heat them.

Temperature effects on batteries are a much bigger problem for personal cars that spend most of their time parked than for working vehicles that are driven most of the day, most days. And it's also a bigger problem for small vehicles due to the square-cube law. A large battery pack has less surface area per unit volume, so it will take longer for unwanted cooling to happen and cost less to keep it heated.

Anyway, people in cold places like Canada and Norway have been driving Teslas for years, and don't consider the cold to be a major problem.

>>9302250
Wrong, and it'll be cheaper overall.

>>9303353
Even if Tesla fails (and Musk certainly seems to be hedging his bet that it will, look at how he's diversify and pushing out new concepts so quickly) if has already changed the paradigm of your cuck companies that are married to oil. EVs are now a thing, when they weren't 10 years ago. But Tesla isn't out of the game yet, and you're all scrambling to catch up.

>>9301517

what the fuck is wrong with that bicycle

>>9303349

one of these things would make a great dungeon for a post-apocalyptic rpg

>>9303516
oil and ore mostly. oil trains are rolling bombs and like to blow up ore is around mining installations.

>>9303744
I think it has an easy way to keep standing once the rider leaves the seat.

>>9304071
That's right.

The car is built by a German startup (founded out Uni Aachen) in coop with the German postal service. They are using them quite succesfully. You can buy one for 32k€. Range is limited to 120 km though. Production is scaled up to 20000 a year by the end of 2017. There's a huge demand, like hot pockets.

>>9304307
We were talking about the bicycle.

>>9303349

Can't to apply there as a "charred dead birds cleaner".

>>9304327
I know, but I wanted to write about the car.

>>9304336
>Can't to apply there as a "charred dead birds cleaner".
whaaat

friendly reminder to invest in lithium and cobalt mining they will make bank

>>9304341
It has its own share of problems.
https://ecomento.de/2017/08/14/kritik-an-streetscooter-ist-der-elektro-transporter-der-post-unsicher/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf5ZNDggF2I

I bet they'll kill or overengineer and ruin it. Like so many projects in recent times.

>>9304352

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-solar-bird-deaths-20160831-snap-story.html

>>9304364
Road runner skeleton cleaner.

>>9304364
wrong techology bud

>>9301416
No, it seems like the best move to get a cut of the largest employment sector in the united states.

>>9304406
You have no idea what getting a cut means.

It means skimming off exponential growth and giving quasi linear growth as return.

>>9304364
That's a concentrated solar thermal-electric power plant. They don't use solar panels, they use a big field of mirrors to boil water, like burning ants with a magnifying glass. Solar panels don't kill birds.

>>9304446
Nobody can tell what you're trying to say.

>>9304454
Growth in many fields would be exponential.

Banks and Taxes flatten that curve massively.

>>9304470
Okay, sure, but what has that got to do with a battery company trying to get a cut of the trucking market by improving performance and safety and lowering fuel cost?

>>9304483
Well freight curve could have already flattened out so the impact is limited unless this is massively cheaper.

Maybe tesla should build a train too?

>>9301416
Should have made a driverless semi that can back trailers, and some driverless forklifts to go in the back.

>>9303353
>They'll take fucking anyone
lmao this

Tesla and SpaceX pay their engineers dog shit and work them like slaves. Their currency is hype and memes. Essentially billion dollar companies that operate like start ups.

i got offered 65k to work 60+ hours a week for SpaceX designing fuel delivery systems. I laughed at the HR lady before i hung up.

>>9301882
>Concorde was top tier.
Found the retard

>>9302226

Electricity is not free you dummy, the solar panel thing is not a reality yet.

>>9302679
New model s battery packs are 10k now

>>9304563
This isn't meant to promote a dramatic increase in shipping volume, it's meant to make shipping moderately cheaper, safer, and cleaner. It's not BFR, they're not entering a market where the current solution is horribly inefficient and there's room for orders of magnitude improvement. There's plenty of money to be made making trucking ten or twenty percent better.

>>9303563
>>9303708
Use a bank of super/ultra capacitors. That's what some people use to replace their regular car battery when they have really shitty winters.

I knew someone who used a small solar panel with heating elements to keep his diesel tank and fuel lines warm in the winter. Otherwise, when it was super cold the diesel would gel up.

>>9304639
>the solar panel thing is not a reality yet
It basically is. They've solved the storage problem, and solar's already the cheapest joule-for-joule in good locations, and still on that exponential track of increasing joules per dollar.

>>9304931
>Use a bank of super/ultra capacitors.
That's fine for a starter battery, and maybe for regenerative braking, but they're nowhere close to having the energy density for all-electric vehicles.

>>9303435
The battery is enormous. It can take it. Its just 1.6 C charging.

>>9304928
Building a train too wouldn't be a bad idea.
Maybe if every train-car had motors (and additional grippy wheels?) steeper inclines could be covered.

>>9305729
>Maybe if every train-car had motors

A diesel locomotive is a giant diesel engine turning a huge alternator, which powers an electric motor at every wheel.

(Some locomotives are already drones, too, btw...)

Replace the engine and alternator with batteries, and I suppose you're set...

>>9303336
swingandamiss

>>9304341
Kek

It is a really good product and might be the cash cow that Tesla needs.

>>9301416
We won't know for sure til we see them on the road, but I'm all for it if it means not getting stuck behind slow-ass trucks going 55 mph on a 70 mph stretch when I commute to work. Fucking hell, they're annoying.

>>9301824

is that sarcasm? and is it's towards me?

>>9302013
Well a few things wrong with your calculimafacations. Firstly efficiency, a good diesel is only 40% efficient, a good electric can be above 90%.

A big semi trailer has an area of 45sqm good solar cells are 30% efficient times (1120 W/m2) ≈ 50kw.

Now you have to take into account local weather averages and time of year, pic related is a nice little graph with year long averages so we will need to divide by days in a year. 50 * 1800 / 365.25 ≈ 246kwh per day. This assumes panels are tilted twards the sun, semi will be flat so we have to apply a correction factor of 0.8 or ≈ 200 kwh per day or about 6 gge, gas has 88% the energy of diesel so lets call it 5 dge. Electric cars are about 3x more efficient at turning raw energy into mpg, a semi truck is probably inherently more efficient so lets assume electric is only 2x as efficient so the equivalent in miles driven would be about 10dge. A good semi gets around 9mpg so this would get you about 90 miles of range per day or about 1/5th of it's daily energy requirement.

>>9306246
At 2kwh per mile that's 100 miles per day on solar. So the 500 mile version could go 600 miles instead. Seems worth it to me.

>>9306246
>>9306258
How reliable are those systems?

>>9306246
>Firstly efficiency, a good diesel is only 40% efficient, a good electric can be above 90%.
Where does the electricity come from? How efficient is energy production and transport? Does having to lug around all those cells impact range?

>>9304327
>>9303744
its an bicycle designed to transport heavy loads and has an electric motor to asist the driver.
the bar bith the litle wheels is a stand because the mail carrier has to leave and enter the bike often.

>>9301517
>>9304307
>>9304341
>>9304362
>>9306956
>mfw comfy postposting
>yfw comfy postposting
>ofw they build a robot and call it postbot

>>9306278
>Where does the electricity come from? How efficient is energy production and transport?
Doesn't matter when we're comparing the storage for the vehicle. You have to compare the useful energy the vehicle can get, not the total energy released including waste heat.

Furthermore, you can't just say, "Oh, the diesel has higher energy density, therefore electric loses." You have to make a case that the energy density of the batteries is insufficient. In fact, diesel's energy density is way higher than is needed.

>Does having to lug around all those cells impact range?
On a semi, that specializes in transporting lots of mass? No. The range is limited by economics, not mass. Tesla's going with a 500 mile max-load range on a full charge, 400 miles on a 30-minute quickcharge (to match the legally-mandated 30 minute driver break per four hours of driving).

That's only half the range of a typical diesel truck, but the extra range on a diesel is needed on very few routes, and the extra capacity is mostly used to be able to wait to fill up where the fuel is cheapest. The extra fuel capacity is added on diesels because it's cheap to do so.

It would certainly be preferable to have a longer range, but the expense can't be justified by the benefit with current battery technology, at least not in the base model.

>>9307061
>there's actually two cuties in that pic

>>9306956
Whats the point of this? Just drive a car

>>9307215
Better than bicycle and moped?

>>9307290
How do you intend to not get mugged travelling around on a bicycle every day like that

It's not a density problem with batteries, its a cost problem. Also its a problem that batteries turn into literal fucking blow torches that will cook you alive in a crash.

>>9301850
No we are not. Tesla=/= SpaceX

there are some dumb fucking people on /sci/

he explained every single aspect of why it can work. You people are fucking retarded. The Tesla truck is the future. It's all going electric. He is ahead of the game.

>>9307423
>How do you intend to not get mugged travelling around on a bicycle every day like that

By not living in a shithole.

Why didn't he waste his resources making an ICE semi? Why didn't he waste his resources making it hybrid?

Are you all fucking 50 IQ? Tesla is literally orientated around electric which is going to be the future for obvious thermodynamic / physics reasons (efficiency compared to ICE and lack of pollution)

It would be a worse sign if Tesla came out with the best ever ICE semi truck. Why waste time with the past? It's like asking why Apple didn't make an awesome wired home phone instead of the expensive iphone 1.

>>9307686
We had this exact conversation about why self landing rockets you could reuse would never be a thing.

>>9307695
>ICE semi truck

What is ICE?

>>9307695
>competitor makes an all electric car
Oh like the Tesla?

there are morons asking why Tesla exists too. If the other companies can kill Tesla in electric at a whim why haven't they beaten any Tesla model in electric performance?

Tesla isn't even just the best electric. It's the best EVER. How mongoloid does your brain have to be to not understand how valuable that is?

>>9307704
combustion engine

>>9307698
It's just a propulsion method, if it can become equivalently safe as a jet engine there is 0 reason why not.

>>9307706
Oh, Internal Combustion Engine.

>>9307423
>How do you intend to not get mugged travelling around on a bicycle every day like that
Sorry for not having out-of-control crime yet. We are getting there though.

>>9307695
>going to be the future for obvious thermodynamic / physics reasons
Taking into account energy generation, the overall efficiency is 9%, similar to gasoline.

>>9308364
Where are we generating gasoline?

>>9308364
To elaborate.

Generation of electricity -> Electric Car
Generation of electricity -> FCV

These are the two you can compare and where the efficiency is commonly talked about. Because you want to be using electricity and a pollution free car.

In the case of gasoline, we can't begin to compare the entire supply chain. You are talking massive worldwide chains heavily subsidized with existing infrastructure.

If you compare Gasoline car to Electric Car the electric car is more efficient.

Taking into account energy generation is pretty retarded, as we are talking about the future.

If you allow me to select energy generation, in which case I'd select specific great cases of hydro/nuke/wind then It'd beat gasoline.

The key point here is we aren't talking about right this instant. We are talking about a massive amount of various variables all changing over time. If you are above 50 IQ and look at these to any degree you see electric wins.

>>9308402
How good is your German? (I might translate it later when I have time.)

http://if-blog.de/hb/hans-im-glueck-version-2017/
(This one uses coal in the electricity part.)

In the end the problem is (talking energywise):
Low density cities are expensive.
Commute is expensive.
Shipping stuff around (on lorries) is expensive.
A/C and Heating is expensive. Moreso in smaller homes. (District heating / District cooling can alleviate this only in part in low density city districts.)
(I wonder if aerogel AND / OR thick brick walls (with selective wall isolation (to let the sun shine on the wall and close at night)) might ever play a role.)

>>9301416

>>9308882
Why would a pothole be a problem?

>>9308903
I take it you've never been outside before, let alone driven a car?

>>9308921
I drive everyday for work, probably more than you. Why don't you elaborate?

>>9308903
Well I just figured the bottom part would be rather pron to hitting the road, maybe the roads are just really shit in canuckistan and that's why most of the semies I have seen are raised a fair bit.

>>9308923
I don't understand how you drive every day and don't understand the danger of pot holes... are you just playing dumb?
>probably more than you
Are you 12?

>>9308924
>>9308927
That wheel is much larger than a regular car. I mean' sure, you could run into trouble with a huge fucking hole, but normal cars would have even bigger problems at that point.
>Are you 12?
No, I have a drivers licence and a job where I use my car regularly between jobs.

>>9308930
Meh, my pic was mostly just a shitpost.

>>9302062
Even right now a solar panel array that fits on a single family home can provide a surplus of power for people living in it. And solar panels are only getting cheaper and more efficient. Combine that with some larger solar farms and you don't even need nukes.

>>9302612
That means it will be $45000 and the only reason it was ever $35000 was because of government intervention.

>>9309635
So you figure there's no government intervention involved in the prices of conventional American cars and oil?

>>9309675
Renewables get double the subsidies that fossil fuels do, and its much for concentrated in renewables.

Not saying fossil fuels don't get any.

>>9307692
>Germany
>not a shithole
that's where you're wrong, bucko.

So no one is talking about the fact that Lithium is actually not recycled?

The real problem with electric cars like Tesla's is that they put some new problem on the table such as the need of lithium for batteries (of the cars and the solar panels) and the fact that they are not limitless.

I'm not saying saying that good ole diesel is better, but that actual "green" tech is full of bullshits, made to be sold to some greenwannabe tards.

>>9310977
Hydrogen is the future. Especially since the french found natural sources in russia.

>>9310986
I believe it is part of it. But there is still the problem with the batteries right?

>>9311018
Usable hydrogen is quite voluminous but the mass/energy ratio is good.
Trucks would have apparatus to haul it in compressed form for sure. It's hard having that on cars tho.

>>9311057
>>9311018
>>9310986

Not a long term solution.

The real problem here, the problem Tesla and the rest of us keep running into, is that frankly our battery technology fucking SUCKS.

Like mega uber sucks. Our electronic devices such as phone and laptops keep getting more and more power hungry as performance increases, and the same will probably continue being true for electric vehicle. Meanwhile however, the batteries have not substantially improved.

LI technology is outdated at this point. What is really needed is a revolution in battery technology. Even if you use hydrogen cells you are still going to need batteries to store some energy so you are just kicking the can really.


What ought to be done is someone needs to really look at the battery problem and figure out better batteries, much better batteries. That could solve several billion or even a trillion dollars worth of problems.

What's more unsettling is that everyday that goes by that we keep using LI I think it adds risk. LI tends explode and/or burn when it fails. Eventually there will be a big accident because of this, biggest concern is airliners like the 787 and a350 that use large LI battery banks.

>>9311092
>airliners like the 787 and a350 that use large LI battery banks
Meh. What's the worst that could .... *burning tarmac sound*

>>9311092
Wow just wow anon I'm like ugh.
How can you be so paranoid?
Everyone's phone has lion battery so it's perfectly safe!
Nobody would have been selling stuff like that if it was poisonous or dangerous!

>>9301416
>mfw people falls for cocktail science and jewish scams so hard these days

>>9301512
>>9301666

most people perceive electric cars as weak and impractical. semi-trucks are supposed to be no-nonsense machines, so they probably think this will help electric vehicles shed that reputation.

>>9301666
Thus is why tesla and electric were a mistake.
Hydrogen combustion is the future. Clean burning, already existing infrastructure and abundace on earth.
(((they))) have jewed us again but the world is waking up.

>>9311092
you realise in big industry most things have expiry dates and need to get checked to make sure theres no obvious damage before that piece of equipment is allowed to be used again, right?

>>9311092
>LI technology is outdated at this point.
No it isn't, it's still state of the art. Certainly it would be nice to have something better, and people are working on it and producing promising stuff, but there's no clear next step.

>everyday that goes by that we keep using LI I think it adds risk
Every day that goes by is more engineering experience to reduce costs and increase safety.

>LI tends explode and/or burn when it fails.
Not unlike petroleum fuels.

>>9311319
>diesel
>exploding
Not in the tank, it doesnt

>>9311297
Trucking around hydrogen like gasoline is a huge mistake. There will never be a hydrogen economy like the current gasoline economy. It is far easier to convert to an electric economy than to refit fuel stations for new fuels.

Yes, the electric grid needs upgrading, but that was already the case before the initial push for electric vehicles decades ago.

>>9311331
>using diesel
please stop, diesel is horrible.

>>9311339
What? Do long haul trucks in US use petrol?

how is it going to heat the cab?

>>9311340
The one in OP doesn't.

>>9311334
What easier? to upgrade infrastructure or literally replace ICE with electric motors?

>>9311342
built-in space heater.

>>9311347

electric powered?

>>9311343
Yeah but it doesnt exist

>>9311344
Upgrading infrastructure is necessary. It has to happen regardless of what happens in the automotive sector. That it is synergistic with a changeover from ICE to electric motors is neither here nor there.

>>9311348
Of course. They're 100% efficient.

>>9311349
That's not a render, it's a photo.

>>9311351
In case of switching to electric, it wont be just a case of upgrading, the whole infrastructure will have to be scrapped and new one build instead. This is retarded just like electric itself.

>>9303050

the hilux is pretty well-regarded.

>>9311331
Yeah, diesel fuel tank don't catch on fire when there's nothing wrong with them and nothing bad happens to them. And the same is true of lithium-ion batteries.

>>9311388
Even if something happens (a leak) or in case of accident it will burn but it will not explode, unlike a massive lithium battery, when that thing goes everything in the vicinity will be obliterated instantly.

>>9311361
But electricity already exists. Too many /o/tists in here.

>>9311439
But the battery manufacturing plants, the motor manufacturing plants do not

>>9311430
>unlike a massive lithium battery, when that thing goes everything in the vicinity will be obliterated instantly.
That's about the most ridiculous claim I've ever heard about batteries.

First of all, there's far less energy in the batteries (even for the same range, the battery will have maybe a quarter or third as much energy as a tank of fuel), and they're made of a larger mass of stuff that mostly has high boiling points so the energy in them isn't really enough for them to flash boil their material and make a brisant explosion. The "explosion" of a lithium ion battery is better described as "popping", which is insignificant when there's secondary containment, as in a well-designed car or stationary battery. Secondly, they're solid and non-volatile. They can't form fuel-air mixtures or flow all over the place.

Diesel's safer than gasoline, but it can still cause brisant explosions under the right circumstances, such as in near-empty tanks or when there's a spray of fuel. And of course, it burns like crazy, spreading widely and making a big fireball when it gets going, rather than the intense but localized fire of a large li-ion battery pack.

Lithium-ion batteries are a much lower hazard than liquid fuel. They're harder to set off, and the consequences aren't as severe. You can smoke all you like next to a charging electric vehicle.

>>9311430
Really? I have a hard time believing this.

>>9303704
It is much easier to use his Boring Company to drill through the crust and dump the trash down there. He could then cap the new volcano with a geothermal plant. Three companies used in this venture.

>>9311648
Are you aware WHY the planet core is heated?

>>9301416
I think this has potential to become the standard once infrastructure picks up.

>>9311654
because of high pressure?

>>9311668
>The source of heat that drives plate tectonics is the primordial heat left over from the planet’s formation as well as the radioactive decay of uranium, thorium, and potassium in Earth’s crust and mantle.[7]
http://newscenter.lbl.gov/2011/07/17/kamland-geoneutrinos/
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Structure_of_the_Earth&oldid=811322544#Mantle

>The flow of heat from Earth's interior to the surface is estimated at 47 terawatts (TW)[1] and comes from two main sources in roughly equal amounts: the radiogenic heat produced by the radioactive decay of isotopes in the mantle and crust, and the primordial heat left over from the formation of the Earth.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Earth%27s_internal_heat_budget&oldid=811248570

>>9307138
They should offer a somewhat lower capacity model at some point that has a second full battery added into the front of the cargo compartment for added range.

>>9311775
haha they will just use the same battery but 'lower' the capacity through software drm. This is nothing new for tesla, enjoy the future cucks

>>9311786
I don't understand.

>>9311775
All models have the same capacity.

The available capacity is just locked. That way they can extend cell lifetime by cycling between a smaller range (20%-80%).

>>9311805
then you are a brainlet