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/sci/ - Science & Math


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9292657 No.9292657 [Reply] [Original]

How do we stop the rise of "Pop-Math"?

>> No.9292662

What's wrong with pop math ?

>> No.9292664
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9292664

omae wa mo shindeiru

>> No.9292666

>>9292657
I like numberphile. What's not to like?

>> No.9292671

>>9292662
Some of us have spent years coming to grips with high level problems and theorems and shit like numberphile and matt parker go around and tell people "oh, its just this simple"

fuck these people, they only hurt actual math.

>> No.9292680

>>9292671
cry me a river faggot

>> No.9292693

>>9292671
People are starting to like what I like!!!!

>> No.9292696

>>9292671

Maybe you're just retarded anon?

>> No.9292708

>>9292680
>>9292693
>>9292696
>>9292666
>>9292662
fuck off to reddit holy shit

>> No.9292712

>>9292657
>>9292671
>>9292708
>underage

>> No.9292713

>>9292693
is there a more reddit phrase?

>> No.9292715

>>9292657
If you think you have it bad with pop bastardizations of your field try being a programmer.

>> No.9292717

tfw successful advertisement thread

>> No.9292718

>>9292715
>If you think you have it bad with pop bastardizations of your field try being a NEET.
ftfy

>> No.9292720

imagine if we were actually able to someday convince kids that math is fun? I say there should be more pop-math

>> No.9292721

>>9292718
that insult doesn't even make sense, consider suicide

>> No.9292722

>>9292718
People are bastardizing your field of not having a field? I don't get it. Or are you saying you don't believe people can work as software developers and are therefore really NEETs?

>> No.9292735
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9292735

>>9292721
>>9292722
I mean that nobody understands the NEET struggles...

Going to go cry. Please be patient I have autism

>> No.9292741
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9292741

>>9292735
...A-a-actually I'm not even a NEET I'm just LARPing

Please forgive me s-s-senpai

>> No.9292747
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9292747

>>9292741
>tfw I thought I would be special for finding one of these signs

>> No.9292757

>>9292657
There's no need to stop it.
The single biggest problem with mathematics right now is the fact that a sizable majority of people respond with revulsion to the field. I'm sure anyone here that's in math has heard something int he vein of "I could never do that, I hate math" every time they reveal their field of study.
Math, more than any other subject, has this ridiculous bias surrounding it. All it takes is one bad teacher along the way to turn a person off of numbers completely, and this only hurts our field. We should be promoting peoples' interest in all sorts of mathematics, not standing by while people close their minds to it after a bad streak in Pre-Algebra.

I don't care for Numberphile and I doubly don't care for the shit they talk about, but I consider it a true blessing that people who ordinarily wouldn't give a 2nd thought to a mathematical principle are even considering something like a -1/12 meme. Someone who opens their eyes to a new facet of math via "pop-math" isn't our enemy. They're our friend, and we have a unique opportunity to introduce them to "real" math and science through the piquing of their interest.

So fuck you, OP. We should be encouraging the rise.

>> No.9292758
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9292758

>>9292757
Exactly 100%

OP is just feeling insecure that his field is being appropriated by normies who aren't into it as hardcore as he is, but that doesn't matter because this isn't personal to begin with

It's not about reputation or prestige or anything, it's about making society more open to mathematics and scientific thought even if some normie idiots think they're smart all of a sudden for watching some Numberphile videos. Who cares? Maybe it will make them appreciate the field more and stop being negative about it

Whatever

I think math is THE topic. The only topic, the topic that makes all other topics obsolete, because they all, in their most advanced forms, basically revert into mathematical descriptions of their mechanisms. Math is everything, the sooner we can help the world realize this the better

>> No.9292767
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9292767

>>9292757
>turn a person off of numbers
>numbers
>mathematics

>> No.9292785
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9292785

>>9292767
don't be a faggot, mathematics generalizes the study of numbers, categorizations, and measurements, and whenever anyone asks for a concrete example of your mathematics you need to make some real world measurement, categorization, or numbering. Only virgins study math without ever learning a concrete example of what they study.

>> No.9292792

>>9292757
That's the thing I've come to realize in college as I begin to dive into big boy math. Man I thought I was hot shit in high school when I was in AP Calc but honestly, anyone can do this shit. I've been lucky to have some great teachers along the way. Anything that can get people interested in the field and thinking "wait a minute, I can do this!" is a good thing.

>> No.9292820

>>9292708
>>9292713
The butthurt is real

>> No.9292840

>>9292785
>concrete example of what they study
But I don't study number theory.

>> No.9292851

>>9292671
Why wouldn't you like more people to get into mathematics? It's not like they're specifically coming to /sci/.

>> No.9292861
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9292861

>>9292840
>numbers are only used in number theory
>being this autistic

>> No.9292898

>>9292657
We don't

>> No.9292908

>>9292657

pop math is extremely beneficial to young audiences. In the same way star trek inspired lots of modern engineers/physicists, places like Numberphile can do the same for kids/teens nowadays.

And anyways, if math reaches the general audience in the same was tesla and other space/physics related things have, as a real mathematician, you can only benefit. Increased funding, job opportunities, respect. A many host of things come with fame.

Something tells me you're not a mathematician though.

>> No.9292911

>>9292671
I know! They're spoiling our secret club!

>> No.9292912

>>9292861
I don't study the theory of numbers though, so numbers aren't a concrete example of what I study.

>> No.9292919

can we kill ppl who hate on popmath and popsci instead?

>> No.9292946

>>9292657
OP eternally btfo when he realized the only thing that made him a little better than others by his own standards, created to make him comfortable about being unable to fit in, actually means nothing and he is as worthless as when his highschool crush made fun of him.

>> No.9292963

>>9292671
You piece of trash. If you have taken years to finally come up with a theoretical idea (which you most certainly haven't) you would LOVE for it to be learned and spread by others. It's literally how one becomes well known and possibly makes money off of it.

Also, "difficult" and time consuming ideas should eventually be broken down as easily as possible.
a^2 + b^2 = c^2 was revolutionary a couple thousand years ago, and today we literally teach it to elementary school children.

>> No.9292972

>>9292671
>fuck these people, they only hurt actual math.
no., they produce an interest in mathematical concepts, which would then be explored by those so inclined to.
As for the retards who think they know everything abut that theorem, you get to troll them/ correct them.

Its a win-win situation anon. =)

>> No.9292974

>>9292671
>its this fag again
>the one from the cody's labs thread

>> No.9292978

>>9292662
the same thing as with CS, it will turn math into a bubble filled with non competent normies who think they're the next einsteins
but IMO this is inevitable and will happend to all STEM jobs sooner or later

>> No.9293010

Pop-math isn't bad, it raises awareness and interest in mathematics which you should enjoy seeing if you actually love math. Yes people who only watch pop-math videos on youtube won't know much, it's not a big deal.

>> No.9293099

>>9292972
>As for the retards who think they know everything abut that theorem, you get to troll them/ correct them.
This. It can be pretty fun.

>> No.9293118

Yes, but we don't actually teach kids why a^2+b^2=c^2 is true. Just teaching them how to plug and chug is hardly the same as actually teaching them the proof behind it.

>> No.9293128

Numberphile is the Bill Nye of today like it or nay

>> No.9293129

>hate pop-sci
>don't have any problem with popmath
why, /sci/?

>> No.9293134

>>9292671
They try explain mathematics concepts to those who aren't experienced with it yet.
If it's too simple for you then don't watch it.

>> No.9293161

If someone on /sci/ doesn't like numberphile, it's probably because of a particular professor on their show. There's tons of people who have contributed to the channel, and many of them are very intelligent mathematicians who have a lot to say about the subjects they work in. If you have a fundamental problem with that, you don't belong on /sci/.

That being said, I find it very hard to take banana man (James Grime) seriously.

>> No.9293183

>>9292657
start your own "Mom-Math" channel

>> No.9293184

>>9292671
>m-muh sekret club

>> No.9293187

If you have a problem with content creators trying to bring advanced mathematics to the masses then you're retarded.

>> No.9293198

>>9292662
this >>9292664
they not only really milked the series on this, but they intentionally lied to their viewers in an attempt to mystify the result and make themselves look like wizards. The single good thing about pop-sci and pop-math is that it gets more people interested in the field and respect it. If you look at their comments section, all they did was make mathematicians look like artists playing their own insignificant game. They basically reduced mathematicians to philosophers.

>> No.9293206
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9293206

Obligatory

>> No.9293267

>using youtube

>> No.9293273

>>9293206
kek

>> No.9293275

>>9292792
> anyone can do AP Calc

LMAO my own mother only passed pre-algebra after 10 tries at 6 different colleges.

>> No.9293330
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9293330

>> No.9293335
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9293335

>>9293330

>> No.9293360

>>9293275
We're talking about humans, not women.

>> No.9293380

>>9292757
Fuck no you faglord
> advocating for shit unrigorous popmath
If anything we should try to reduce the popularity of mathematics in the general public to stop people who are not willing to build up their knowledge from the axioms proving everything along the way from polluting discussions of topics they know nothing about

>> No.9293389

>>9292908
Theres literally 0 engineering or physics in star trek . i would even saw theres negative physics since it portrays things which are wrong .
Saying it inspires engineers or physicists is like saying that fucking bible story with the dude that parts the sea inspired engineers and physicists

>> No.9293401

>>9292908

>seeing a communicator drove steve jobs to create iphone

N*gger please. The only thing Star Trek inspired was drunken cosplay hook-ups and crappy conventions in Las Vegas.

>> No.9293406

>>9292671

That's like saying everyone who enjoys Namasensei's Fucking Japanese Lessons is going to destroy the fabric of the Japanese language because they didn't spend 15 years learning hiragana.

You really have a lot to learn, and sound like someone who just barely scraped by Calc1.

>> No.9293422
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9293422

>>9292974
The black frenchie? Nice. Kill him

>> No.9293430

>>9293360
They let ‘em into colleges now, so I don’t know what to tell you bud.

>> No.9293433

>>9293406
>15 years of hiragana

I’m pretty sure people with legitimate learning disabilities don’t take that long to learn them

>> No.9293438

>>9293406
>namasensei
Fuck, the nostalgia.

>> No.9293525
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9293525

Best numberphile coming through.

>> No.9293570

>>9293198
What is it that differentiates mathematicians from philosophers in your mind, and why should anyone care ? From an outside observer's pov, there's really not much of a difference. They don't wear labcoats, they don't make any (physical) experiments, they (aside from maybe the math modeling and mathematical finance crowd) don't contribute to society in any perceivable way (maybe even less than philosophers).
I love mathematics and all, but if you just take a little distance, it does seem like people "playing their own insignificant game".

>> No.9293599

>>9292708
>I-I d-d-on't un-understand nu-numbafile!
>m-muh p-pop m-maf!
>m-muh rrreddddiiitttt
brainlet detected

>> No.9293603

>>9292657
>faggot undergrad shitting on one of the best Mathematics interview shows out there
can't say I'm shocked

>> No.9293605

>>9292657
I really like Numberphile. I can personally attest that watching those videos encouraged me to get a minor in math, which I feel really helped me landing a job.

>> No.9293612

>>9293525
Who's the worst? The curly-haired one with the creepy enthusiasm, the sweatlord, or someone else (like the Klein fetishist)?

>> No.9293638

>>9293612
i's say it's the klein bottle reddit man

>> No.9293708

>>9293570
>don't contribute to society in any perceivable way
really? you're trying to say mathematics is useless to try to bring up philosophers' worth? be retarded if you want to I guess.

>> No.9293874

>>9293612
hm dont remember the curly haired one
but i like the japanese one

>> No.9293879
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9293879

>>9293874
He's so unbelievably annoying.

>> No.9293882

The only way I could see pop-math harming anything in any way is if it becomes like pop-psychology or pop-medicine, that is to say, people taking very broad concepts, making them extremely simple by removing important factors, and then applying them to their normie life in some way.

But I think something is fundamentally different about mathematics that would prevent this.
I don't see how some stupid teenager could take "1+2+3... = -1/12" and fuck up as bad as some other teenager who decides they're bipolar and excuses themselves from adult responsibilities

>> No.9293883
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9293883

>>9292664
zozzled

>> No.9293890

>>9293879
yeah. him and the klein one absolutely...
who's the creepy enthusiastic one then?
I watched some channel computerphile and I think that guy was on numberphile as well... he probably takes the price though

>> No.9293897

>>9292657

>a thread full of NEETS who are afraid of brainlets catching up on their 'knowledge' by watching some 3 minute videos

>> No.9293904

>>9292657
Grueling secret club entry exams.

>> No.9293910

>>9293890
>who's the creepy enthusiastic one then?
Same guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIggWlKr41w

>> No.9293931

>>9293910
ah my reading comprehension...
the sweaty one i don't know then

>> No.9293953

>>9292657
I have no problem with pop math when done by real mathematicians. They aren't the breed likely to give you a false sense of understanding, usually upfront about where things are being left out. It's even good practice for having only partial knowledge outside your field of expertise. eg "elliptic tales" was p decent.

>> No.9294081

>>9293330
>>9293335
i spent far too long chuckling at these

>> No.9294087

>>9292963
>You piece of trash. If you have taken years to finally come up with a theoretical idea (which you most certainly haven't) you would LOVE for it to be learned and spread by others. It's literally how one becomes well known and possibly makes money off of it.

Hmm. Disagree.

>> No.9294098

>>9294081
same

>> No.9294104

Why does it have the word “phile” in it as if it’s like trying to be the new “Pedophile”, “edephile”, “hebephile”?

>> No.9294113

>>9294104
Suffixes with the common part -phil- (-phile, -philia, -phily, -philic) are used to specify some kind of attraction or affinity to something.

>> No.9294136

>>9292671
I'd like to see you engage an audience of around 300,000 people on youtube explaining your "high level problems and theorems that took you years to come to grips with".

Their audience is teenagers and young adults, they want interesting kinda easy to follow topics to introduce young people to mathematical concepts and encourage them to follow it further, not make stupidly complicated videos on theorems that would take them 300 hours to teach.

>> No.9294138

>>9294104
>he doesnt know what the -phile suffix means
holy fucking shit you are a brainlet

>> No.9294163
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9294163

>>9293206
fixted

>> No.9294723
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9294723

>>9293206
>first you hit them with the 5 finger jab
>then you come in with the klein bottle hook

>> No.9294725

>>9292657

Don't ever have children.

>> No.9294737

>>9292671
lmao how humiliating it must be to get actually get cucked by some online math spergs

>> No.9294759

>>9293612
I guess klein bottle man, his ~1000 klein bottle basement is pretty bonkers.

>> No.9294821

>>9293389
It doesn't matter if the actual physics is wrong, it's that young people think 'this might be possible one day with physics', and it is! We're sending people into space, maybe one day even further.

And you think there's no engineering involved in star trek? Do you even know what engineering is? Anything built, some subset of engineering was involved. It's like you don't even know the basic branches of engineering? Mechanical, electrical, you can't think of a single way these could be applied to make a rocket(spaceship) work? It baffles me that you chose to reply to me with such a pathetic argument.

Also, as a closing side note - I work in STEM. I don't personally watch star trek - heck, I barely even know the plot, but many of my colleagues and contacts do, and there certainly is a subset of them who have openly said that it inspired them to get into STEM.

tl;dr - your analogy is retarded, you are too and you should feel ashamed that your method of thinking is so weak.

>> No.9294833

>>9294723
>that correction

kek

>> No.9294865

>>9294821
>It baffles me that you chose to reply to me with such a pathetic argument.
Nerd.

>> No.9294943

>>9294821
fake and underage

>> No.9295029
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9295029

>>9293406
>>9293438
>almost ten years ago
goddammit

>> No.9295114

>>9294087
i'd agree with you if he were talking about something that could be patented, but unless you want any sort of funding or recognition, you want your studies published and known by many

>> No.9295125

>>9292657
by not bringing further attention to it like you are doing right now you dumb fucking retard

>> No.9295288
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9295288

>>9292657
>>9292671

>> No.9295296
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9295296

>>9292657
I just reeeeee at the women especially on the pbs spacetime math version chick

>> No.9295298

>>9292757
kys

>>9293380
this

>> No.9295329

>>9292757
The fundamental question here is whether or not telling people cool applications or discoveries in math is beneficial at all to the math industry as a whole.

In no way does telling people what Grahams number is, what Ramanujan summation gives you when you take the sum over the naturals, what the riemann hypothesis is help anyone into higher level mathematics.
At the end of the day, the average joe has no goal or reason to go into further maths, since what they're currently doing in pre algebra is lightyears behind whatever subject covered in numberphile. Because of how little rigor is given in the videos, you often find viewers coming to the wrong conclusions about different aspects of science and mathematics. Quickest example I can give is how people end up merging all the different possible causes for some field in physics (casimir effect, for instance) and becoming overall confused because of this.

The viewers are none the wiser and still have no end goals for math or physics. At the end of the day, people will still hate their math classes more than the rest (due to the abstract though required). Even if it did spark an interest, there is no route to progression.

Popsci does one thing and one thing only: entertain. It can never do more than this.

>> No.9296185

>>9292671
retard

>> No.9296194

>>9292657
>Pop-Math
That's rich coming from pop-/sci/

>> No.9296217

>>9295296
Shit's pretty comfy tho.
Especially that pbs infinite series one :^)

>> No.9296220

>>9295329
>the math industry
how do you industrialize math?

>> No.9296225

>>9296220
couldn't think of a better word tbqh

>> No.9296257

>>9292671
I too find this post worthy of contempt.

>> No.9296352

>>9292912
Youre being pedantic and youre wrong. Please tell me what you study so i can lambast you.

>> No.9296357

>>9293406
yoroshiku, bitch

>> No.9296364

>>9292671
Classic case of "Parker's Mathematician".

>> No.9296365

>>9293570
Just one example-the field of complex analysis has birthed results that are useful from electronic engineering to quantum computing. And thats about as fruity as maths got 100 years ago.

>> No.9296366

You don't.
Those videos aren't maths but it can get people interested in it.
A few will actually try to do mathematics, and realise it's a different beast. They'll realise it's hard.

These videos encourage more people to try and study maths and that's good.

>> No.9296477

>>9294723
>that fix
LMAO

>> No.9296556

Isn't this board a Pop-Math?

>> No.9296586

>>9292664
>omae wa mo shindeiru
Hahaha yup this sums it up nicely xD

>> No.9296630

bunch of whiny triggered halfwits with insecurities

>> No.9296952

>>9292664
NANI!?

>> No.9297906

>>9292657
It's simple, we just kill the popularizers!

>> No.9297985

>>9293433
You could probably learn hiragana with some flash cards and a month of practice desu

>> No.9297996

>>9297985

I was exaggerating, of course.

It's disgustingly common in Japanese damned near anything to say "I had to spend 10 years learning how to make rice, and then another 10 to cut fish before I was allowed to wash dishes" or something along those lines.

I still maintain that if it takes you 10 years to learn how to cut fish, I should get a discount, not have to pay $100 per piece of shashimi.

But early-stage weebs will fall for anything.

t. recovering weeb

>> No.9298216

>>9297985
it took me something like two days

>> No.9298851

I don't really give a shit that people are trying to give laypeople basic ideas of what mathematicians do.

>> No.9298867

uh-oh, how dare some people have a casual knowledge of math!
not everybody is an engineer, mathematician, or a computer scientist.

>> No.9298880

>>9298867
>[math]\frac{n}{0} = \infty[/math] xD
That's not a casual knowledge of math.

>> No.9298890

"I just found out that average people can do what I do, and I don't feel special any more. How can we stop it?"

>> No.9298923

>>9294113
>>9294104
Being this stupid or taking the bait this hard?

>> No.9298933

>>9298880
There's a video on numberphile where they specifically explain why that isn't true.

>> No.9298937

>>9292671
>t-they didn't study as hard as m-me, they don't deserve the knowledge

Grow the fuck up.

>> No.9298950

>>9298933
So numberphile is garbage after all. It doesn't even make sense to ask if it is "true" or "false".

>> No.9298954

>>9298950
What? They explain why it's false.

>> No.9298957

>>9298954
It's not false though, since it's not even a proposition. It's not well-formed.

>> No.9298961

>>9298957
Ok so by your logic:

1+1=3

And there's nothing you can say about it.

>> No.9298969

>>9298961
>2=3
This is a proposition which can be easily shown to be false working inside some standard system.
>[math]\frac{n}{0} = \infty[/math]
Assuming standard notation, this is not even well-formed so it makes no sense to ask if it is "true" or "false".

>> No.9298973

>>9298969
watch the video you fucking faggot

>> No.9298979

>>9298973
If the videos claims "[math]\frac{n}{0} = \infty[/math]" is false, then it's trash.

>> No.9298983

>>9292671
I remember when I first proved Brouwer's fixed point theorem.

>> No.9298984

>>9298979
How about you watch it and find out?

>> No.9298986

>>9298867
>comp sci
>not a casual knowledge of math

>> No.9298993

>>9292861
>tfw you still don't get this joke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98unLjZRc_8

>> No.9298999

>>9293335
oh god im having a heart attack

>> No.9299004

>>9298993
It's supposed to sound like somebody laughing. "har de har har". It's meant to just be a dumb teacher joke

>> No.9299005

>>9298984
Why would I watch it though?

>> No.9299009

>>9299005
whatever don't watch it then lmao

>> No.9299019

>>9299004
why is she writting r^2Dr though. the derivative is just r^2

>> No.9299051

>>9299019
because dY/dR = R^2 can also be written as dY R^2 dR

>> No.9299388

>>9295329
>Popsci does one thing and one thing only: entertain.
I don't know a single engineer or scientist who wasn't into popsci when he was young. That's a hell of a claim for you to make.
Nobody can get interested early in math if all they're exposed to is dull middle-school material.

>> No.9299513

>>9299005
> erry redneck ever

>> No.9299557

>>9292693
>>9292851
>>9292963
>>9292972
>>9294136
>>9298937
Oh my God just fuck off you dumb stupid redditors. Normies are absolute shit. They make zero effort in learning anything because all their short attention span brain wants is "DUDE LIKE-MAGIC-BUT-TRUE" trivia. Still, they do some mental gymnastics to persuade themselves they learn more in one vsauce video than in high school (which might be true given how smoking weed and playing LoL instead of attending the classes doesn't teach you calculus).

No, Bill Nye didn't make the world more science-litterate. No, Numberphile doesn't cause people to get involved in mathematics past stupid child's play. No, documentaries about QM don't make people understand it better (tards just remember ZOMG CONSCIOUSNESS AND EINSTEIN AND SHIT WITH 3D ANIMATION). No, people won't understand Newtonian mechanics or even get interested in it by watching veritasium.

Popsci is fucking shite. I feel I'm wasting my time when watching it even more than anime. I could skim academic stuff and still learn more faster than by watching YouTube. Fuck Nye, fuck Tyson, fuck Reddit, fuck IFLS, fuck that wannabe hip'n'kewl skeptic fad, and fuck anyone who thinks liking science doesn't mean liking the tedious parts.

>> No.9299566

>>9299557
>Normies
You seem to be the normalfag redditor here.

>> No.9299780

>>9293198
What? Mathematicians are just more abstract and rigorous philosophers.

>> No.9299790

>>9292657
Actual mathematics will never be pop. It's too hard for a layman to get without serious investigation. The closest we ever got were fractals because the fundemental logic behind them is somewhat simple, but even the only thing pop that they produce is some pretty pictures. Nobody will ever write an article on buzzfeed like "5 constructions of vector spaces that will blow your mind", so you anons can rest easy

>> No.9299811

>>9299790
>vector spaces
>not modules over a field
Found the pop-"mathematician".

>> No.9299914

>>9299790
Meh.
The beauty of math is that anything you stumble upon might be linked to something completely different or much deeper.
Fields that are favoured as "recreational mathematics" like googology can lead you into alpha-calculus, bleeding-edge axiomatization theory and much more.

>> No.9299934

>>9293161
Mey he rest in pieces RIP

>> No.9299969

>>9292978
Isn't this a good thing since it makes us look better by comparison?

>> No.9299990

>>9299811
>modules over a field
>not covariant/contravariant additive functor from a ring to the catagory of abelian groups

see me after class

>> No.9300114

>>9293612
>>9293638
>>9294759

Klein bottle guy is the GOAT, best by far.

>> No.9300207

>>9292657
>math is muh special club and nobody should be interested in it but me
quite literally kill yourself

>> No.9300218
File: 58 KB, 441x302, wheeze.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9300218

>>9292671
>Some of us
you're just some dumb undergrad faggot who has pictures of Euler and Newton on their wall and just started learning about abstract vector spaces;
you haven't done SHIT for real math problems, your impact on the mathematical world has its limit at 0, and your opinions on the matter even less so.
neck yourself, fag

>> No.9300233

>>9292671
>fuck these people, they only hurt actual math.
you know one of these videos is going to cause someone to get balls deep in math, and you're just butthurt.

>> No.9300612

how does it make us look better by comparison?

>> No.9300621
File: 67 KB, 348x383, 1500891270800.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9300621

>>9299557
keep on fucking crying bitch boy, go put your blog posting back on reddit

>> No.9300631

>>9292693
There definetly is a problem with pop-math.
People are getting wrong ideas about math, and certainly channels like Numberphile doesn't help to educate people on math.
Ramanujan summation is the worst offender there. First of all, that shit needs derivation so it can't actually be represented as a sum of integers, however it's true than when said operator is applied to the function f(x) = x, it produces the result [math]-\frac{1}{12}[/math].
Second, it gives the general population the wrong idea that you can sum infinite numbers, which is not the case; and moreover, it doesn't tell them that there's massive amounts of syntactic sugar going on and that what they think is
[eqn]1 + 2 + 3 + \cdots[/eqn]
is in reality
[eqn]\lim_{n\to\infty}\sum_{k=1}^nk[/eqn]
which actually have profound implications on what you can and cannot do with it.
Finally, things like the zeta function are linear, but don't behave like summation, so even if
[eqn]\zeta(1 + 2 + 3 + \cdots) = -\frac{1}{12}[/eqn],
the fact that
[eqn]\zeta(0+1 + 2 + 3 + \cdots) = \frac{5}{12}[/eqn]
and
[eqn]\zeta(2 + 3 + \cdots) = -\frac{7}{12}[/eqn],
fucks over wathever notion of what people thought was "just summing with weird tricks".

So, pop-math is not wrong by itself, but the pop-math we are getting (and let's not kid ourselves, it's very hard any other kind of pop-math will arise) is misleading and does more harm than good.

>> No.9300644

>>9300631
>it gives the general population the wrong idea that you can sum infinite numbers, which is not the case

you'll learn about convergent series in calc 1, anon. i know you can do it!

>> No.9300657

Alright l just got back from presenting at a large seminar so I'll do my best to respond to my critics with the small time I have

>>9292680
Not an argument

>>9292693
Not sure who you're quoting. I want people to like math. Pop-math isn't math.

>>9292696
Sure whatever kid. Whens your seminar?

>>9292851
Its not getting people into mathematics, its nothing but "factoids" that room temperature IQ kids use to justify not actually studying math.

>>9292963
I would like people to actually learn and study my ideas, not have them watered down and served in little snipits that serve no purpose other than convincing the watcher they are intelligent.

>>9292972
They produce as much as an interest in math as "I fucking love science" produces an interest in science.

>>9294136
The Jersey shore also had a large audience, that doesn't mean it did any good.

>>9298937
Strawman, they aren't getting any knowledge, period.

>>9300218
lol whatever kiddo, keep thinking that spouting "QUANTUM THEORY IS WEIRD LMAO" makes you well versed in particle physics

>>9300233
Nope, it won't, because they already think they are balls deep in math. Before pop-math. people had to actually read to learn and understand concepts, now they watch a 10 minutes video and go back to waiting tables thinking they're a genius.

>> No.9300689

>>9297996
This is something that is seriously holding them back. You can totally familiarize yourself with most of the common use kanji, in addition to learning the kana, in the space of a year. It's understandable to try to avoid learning bad habits, but this kind of attachment to tradition often takes it too far, as it robs people of actual context they could have learned otherwise.

>> No.9300698

>>9292758
>I think math is THE topic. The only topic, the topic that makes all other topics obsolete, because they all, in their most advanced forms, basically revert into mathematical descriptions of their mechanisms.

This is why we need philosophers.

>> No.9300701

>>9292758
>because they all, in their most advanced forms, basically revert into mathematical descriptions of their mechanisms
"no"

>> No.9300704

>>9298890
Basically this. You ever notice it's (mostly) not the successful mathematicians and engineers who are bitching about pop-science? It's always the incels and NEETs. It's a form of gate-keeping.

>> No.9300723

>>9300657
Maybe stop learning math for a few months and go take a course on how to act like a human.

>> No.9300787
File: 3 KB, 280x272, 148043914356.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9300787

>>9300657
>l just got back from presenting at a large seminar

Is it supposed to give you an argument from authority anon?
Maybe stop being so insecure

>> No.9300790

>>9300631
Who cares if the general populace doesn't have an intricate knowledge of convergence of series?

>> No.9300826

>>9300787
I was just stating a fact, did it make you feel uncomfortable, perhaps put your ego in perspective?

>> No.9301373

>>9299990
>covariant/contravariant additive functor from a ring to the catagory of abelian groups
>not covariant/contravariant Ab-enriched functor from a one-object category enriched over [math]\mathbf{Ab}[/math] to the category of modules over the initial object of the category of monoid objects in [math]\mathbf{Ab}[/math].
don't be hasty

>> No.9301380

>>9300826
>and here the autist proves that, yes, he was trying to make an argument from authority

>> No.9302439

>>9293118

Usually, they prove it later in trigonometry. Math teaching is pretty inductive, first the use case, later the how and why behind it.

>> No.9302455

>>9293389

You have obviously never watched TOS.
Automatic doors
Mobile phones
Scanning devices
Inoculations without the use of a needle

And many more are all concepts that appeared on star trek before they were invented. Yeah, they weren't detailed and there are some things that are not possible (yet?), but that's because they were tv people "inventing" these.

But real people became inspired, started to experiment, build and in the end develop these things in real life.

For fucks sake, we are currently exploring the possibility of a warp drive as laid out on a tv show in hopes to allow a different method of space travel.

You cannot seriously claim that sci fi like star trek has no influence on real people.

>> No.9302675

>>9292662
The problem is it creates arm chair mathematicians who create a barrier of entry for people to seriously enter mathematics.

>> No.9302682

>>9302439
If we're to believe Feynman's messenger lectures, that's how Babylonians taught maths: by presenting the student with enough exercises that he would "get" what was to understand, rather than teaching theorems.

>> No.9302878

>>9299557
I agree.

>> No.9303254

>be a newfag
>have no idea how to reply to a post, or post a pic
>thinks making people interested in math/science might keep them out of shit lefty women study degrees
>find nerdy chicks hot
>thinks everyone here can eat an AIDS dick
>have no idea if greentext worked
>send first post to 4chan

>> No.9303267
File: 47 KB, 239x268, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9303267

>>9303254
Great post. Now lurk more, you won’t be taken seriously without an anime reaction picture to post.

>> No.9303286
File: 143 KB, 695x900, chad-math.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9303286

>>9292664

>> No.9303302

>>9293118
Did you never finish high school or something?

>> No.9303334

>>9293570
Abstract Algebra is critical to modern high-speed digital radios like cell phones and wi-fi.

>> No.9303341
File: 790 KB, 680x823, everyone i don't like is reddit.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9303341

>>9292708
XD

>> No.9303344

You don’t because it doesn’t exist.
Math is math, and it’s not popular anyway. If you you think it is, you need to get out from under your rock

>> No.9303375

>>9303334
lol keep telling yourself that

>> No.9303377
File: 21 KB, 480x360, serveimage(5).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9303377

>>9299557
You really had childhood problems, if it was on reddit I would understand that and be quiet. We are on 4chins, I bet you are a dumb fuck irl, and just that comment shows the low IQ that you have been blessed with.
Scientific Divulgation is not the same as learning actual science, but is as important as learning science for a society. How do you expect the average Joe to be against the global warming, if he doesn't even know what greenhouse gases are.
You are ridiculous, go back to the stupidity of reddit or >>>/pol/ and leave this board to people who really have some brain.

>> No.9303386

>>9303375
Do you understand how wireless communication works? Error correction is necessary and good codes require complicated math.

My degree is EE anyways so it's not like I have much skin in the game.

>> No.9303791

>>9303386
And how does that use abstract algebra?

>> No.9303795

>>9292664
dude...
why????

>> No.9303804

>>9303791
Codes operate on 2^m Galois Fields. Literally their entire mathematical basis is abstract algebra.

>> No.9303893

>>9302682

That is the way modern teaching works. Problem oriented, i.e. present a problem, make students realise they don't have the necessary tools, give them the tools and have them apply them. It is highly correlated with how we learn naturally.

Learning proofs is irrelevant for most people as they don't need the proof of say the quadratic formula to solve the problem, but only the formula itself.

>> No.9303953
File: 33 KB, 575x556, 174518151151.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9303953

>''haha i love math, i watch numberphile all the time''
>ask them what the highest course they ever took was
>Calc 1
>mfw

>> No.9304278

>>9303804
It irks me that people use the phrase Galois fields.

>> No.9304282

>>9303893
That's great until they have a problem phrased slightly differently and they have no ability to modify the method because they don't understand.

>> No.9304310
File: 850 KB, 1832x1754, trump.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9304310

>>9303377
>How do you expect the average Joe to be against the global warming, if he doesn't even know what greenhouse gases are.
>implying he will learn it and not some bastardized shit with blatant political incentive instead

>> No.9304359

>>9304278
cool

>> No.9304637

>>9304282
Depends. You obviously would throw different problems at people and help them find out how to interpret different results and how to apply the stuff.

The modern teaching approach is based on constructivism and deals more with the insight, rather than just factual knowledge. I wouldn't teach just the formula, but the why it works and when it applies (i.e. its utility). Honestly, if you have a good teacher, they will teach you everything but the proof, as that doesn't give most people more insight into the topic. Some will no doubt benefit from the proof, but you will lose 90+% of the class at the same time.

I think that at a higher grade, you should revisit these concepts and get into proofs, but this should be an elective course, if you already know you want to study something math-heavy.

>> No.9304656

>>9299557
This

>> No.9304889

>>9303953
Fuck off, that's higher than most greek mathematicians ever got.

>> No.9304891

>>9304889
This would be relevant if nothing had ever happened since Euclid.

>> No.9304907
File: 447 KB, 612x816, grinning dog and portrait.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9304907

>>9304891
Does that make the math of Euclid less interesting than it was? Was Euclid just a normie who wasn't really interested in math, because he only studied stuff middle school students learn?

My point is you can LIKE math without having being a mathematician or studying it formally. In the same way you can like a sport without being a professional athlete. Or you can like cooking without being a world class chef.

>>9299557
Your tears are hilarious. "Outsiders are starting to like something I like. WAAAAH!"

>> No.9305029

>>9304907
>you can LIKE math
He said love, and the person in his irritated Grinch scenario offered that information. You don't love cooking if the most complicated dish you've made is spaghetti and meatballs.

>> No.9305030

its almost like you enjoy hearing "i always hated math" from very pleb who asks you what you do
that pretty masochautistic

>> No.9305104

>>9303893
>That is the way modern teaching works.
Wut? We had a constructive approach of math during my undergrad, and I'm pretty sure it's still like that. That's very different.

>> No.9305337

>>9293525
>a physicist is the best on a math channel
Really makes you think

>> No.9305420

>>9305104
Oh yeah, sorry, I should have made it clear that this is about school teaching (in countries where you have to have a university grade to become a teacher). Higher education is basically a fucking mess, with everyone teaching how they want with often no regard for teaching effectiveness or efficiency.
The argument is then made that "only those who still manage to learn the material are suited to it anyway" but to me it just sounds like "let's put boulders in everyones way out of spite and just so it remains an exclusive field".

Personally, I subscribe to the notion that most people could learn anything if thought in a meaningful and individualized manner. This would result in a largely more intelligent population that could take part in society in a profoundly better way than now.

I know I'm a utopian optimist, but maybe when automation and AI take peoples' jobs, the entire education sector gets reevaluated and transformed into something that actually helps people become more and realize their potential, instead of segregating them according to their economic utility.

>> No.9305424

>>9305420
>thought
*taught

>> No.9305428

>>9305420
>Personally, I subscribe to the notion that most people could learn anything if thought in a meaningful and individualized manner.
Probably, although the important question is whether or not everyone can learn fast enough, and whether or not everyone has the abstraction capabilities to make something of that knowledge.

>> No.9305430
File: 625 KB, 1033x764, Even Southren Hospitality has a line.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9305430

>First Year Grad Math Student
>"Hey, you're teaching Freshman Algebra"
>lol kay
>One student keeps bringing up Mandelbrot sets and 'dude march 14ths is pi day isn't maths kewl xD'
>I Just want to teach my lesson in how to handle logarithms

Am I an asshole for ignoring them or has my years studying and being crushed by Maths jaded me?

>> No.9305434

>>9305428
I would say that if you can't apply it then you haven't really learned it, but I guess that's open to debate.

>> No.9305436

>>9305430
Ask him (privately) not to bring up unrelated stuff in your classes, while also giving him sources for the stuff that interests him. Otherwise you risk him getting bitter and losing part of his motivation.

>> No.9305438

>>9305428
Individualization takes care of the speed issue. What is the problem, really, if people learn at different speeds? Only an institutional one, if you ask me.

The making some use of it is a tougher question, but how much of your school or university knowledge do you actually apply in your real life (outside of these institutions), anyway?

But anything but thinking jobs may soon be eliminated so it is more about people to be more capable of critical thought, analysis and similar.

It would also have nice political repercussions, I guess, which is probably why politicians shy away from the topic.

>> No.9305441
File: 61 KB, 500x363, Manlet man READY TO DIE.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9305441

>>9305436
Honestly if the guy was legit interested, I want to toss him into the world of proofs asap so he doesn't get butt raped at the higher levels like I was.
>'What do you mean I have to prove it lol?'-Sophmore Me

>> No.9305443

>>9305430
Why exactly are people who have to take another algebra class in college allowed to go to college in the first place?

At the absolute worst all prospective college students should be ready for precalc/trig

>> No.9305446

>>9305441
Welp. Then don't worry I guess, the problem will probably solve itself when he inevitably stops studying math.

>> No.9305454

>>9305438
The problem is we have a lifespan and generally agree that certain things need to be done, so we can't all be researchers and philosophers.

>> No.9305456

>>9304907
You stupid retard. Putting canned food in a microwave is not cooking, and fapping to CP is not sports.

>> No.9305475

>>9305454
I know, hence my self-identification as a utopian optimist. I know that my ideals are aimed extremely high and that I will probably not see those results in my lifetime, but I can still do my part and work towards them.

With the eradication of menial labor jobs (automation and AI), many people will be jobless. It would be a shame to just lay their potential to the grave instead of trying to include them in society in a meaningful way.

And not everyone has to become a philosopher, researcher or mathematician. But I think society as a whole can only benefit from everyone being better educated (or at least, the benefits outweigh the risks).

>> No.9305625

>>9299557
that's clearly bullshit, many people in science today watched bill nye as kids which influenced their decision of which major to choose. In fact just think about how much your environment influences your choice of major and it's obvious how important culture is.

>> No.9305997

>>9295329
I started a maths bachelor this fall and I have realized that numberphile has given me a significant amount of actual helpful knowledge to solve and understand problems.
You'd call it babby maths but it's still entry university level and numberphile content definetly helped me here.

>> No.9306165

>>9292767
I live in Japan and even I fucking hate anime posters. We get it your autistic why even bother replying?

>> No.9306170

>>9297985
Bro it took me two hours max. It's not complicated unless your slow.

>> No.9306210

>>9305430
As a professor I make a note to fail these kind of faggot students, ESPECIALLY the ones that drag little factoids in from places like numberphile

>> No.9306241

>>9306165
This is clearly not a website for you.
>>>/r/eddit/ might be better suited for your kind.