/sci/ - Science & Math

Read your shit study. People who eat a lot of meat also don't exercise and are more likely to be smokers. HMMMM.

>>9248660
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study

angry retard angry because the evidence tells him humans shouldn't eat meat.

what a poor baby.

>>9248651
>""facts"" about nutrition
While you were posting this, the study got retracted three times.

>>9248651
Our human body evolved with the action of eating meat. Our intelligence exponentally increase when we start eating meat. Why are you on /sci/ vegan fag? Balance between meat and other food is what is necessary, not go full vegan.

>>9248665
Just go pescetarian.

>>9248662
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/new-study-links-l-carnitine-in-red-meat-to-heart-disease-201304176083

I can find more studies, there's hundreds of them from any university proving eating meat is toxic.

what now fagget?

>>9248665
it was cooking food, not eating meat, fucking dumbass.

if we need meat, then why our teeth, PH, chemicals in our stomatch, lenght of guts, urine acidity, instentinal flora and basically our physique is the same as frugivores and hervibores like horses rather than looking like bears (onminvores) or real carnivores?

there's even african tribes that don't kill their cattle.

>>9248671
Yeah, I'm sure I can find hundreds of studies showing that eating nuts will increase your risk of heart disease, but I'm not going around posting that shit on vegan forums posting "WHY AREN'T YOU EATING PIGS EVERY DAY???" because I'm not a retard and I understand that pretty much every form of protein is linked to heart disease.

>>9248671
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan_nutrition
>Vitamin B12:
Vitamin B12 deficiency is potentially extremely serious, leading to megaloblastic anemia, nerve degeneration and irreversible neurological damage.
Evidence shows that vegans who are not taking vitamin B12 supplements do not consume sufficient servings of B12 and often have abnormally low blood concentrations of vitamin B12.[19] This is because, unless fortified, plant foods do not contain reliable amounts of active vitamin B12. Vegans are recommended to do one of the following dietary options:[20]
>Protein:
Proteins are composed of amino acids and essential amino acids cannot be synthesised by the human body. A 1994 study found a varied intake of such sources can be adequate.[24]
>Omega-3 fatty acids:
Vegan diets can be low in omega-3 fatty acids (O3FA).
However, diets lacking generous amounts of sea vegetables (seaweed) generally lack a direct source of long-chain O3FA such as eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA).
>Calcium:
The EPIC-Oxford study suggested that vegans who consumed 525 mg or less of calcium per day have an increased risk of bone fractures over meat eaters and vegetarians, but that vegans consuming more than 525 mg/day had a risk of fractures similar to other groups.

And so on... doesn't sound very optimal to me.

Then why do we eat meat and why have we eaten meat for thousands of years (longer than we've been farming). Don't tell me it's "Big Meat" controlling the world.

>>9248684
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study

http://science.time.com/2013/12/16/the-triple-whopper-environmental-impact-of-global-meat-production/

Yeah nigger, what now?
are u going to deny global warming?

>>9248687
https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-and-health/nutrients/vitamin-b12

B12 is not because of meat, but because of bacteria.

>>9248691
Meat was a luxury some centuries ago.
Indians don't eat meat because of religion.
African tribes don't eat meat neither.

You can link the biggest disseases rates, obesity rates and pollution with meat consumers.

>>9248694
>centuries
I'm talking about how we evolved to eat and digest meat so more on the order of millions of years.
Also technically Indians (hindus) can eat meat just not beef as far as I understand.

>>9248684
>>9248687
^this

>>9248671
It was cooking food? We started eating raw meat before fire was discovered. Chimps eat fucking meat, while gorillas don't. We came from chimps so I actually want to see your citations when you say that PH and chemicals in our stomach match more herbivores than chimps.
African tribes are doing well? kek you really want to compare african tribes? They don't kill their cattle because they respect animals, and we do too, then we give them a quick death

>>9248700
Leave it anon, this guys doesn't know shit. He is vegan cause he think it is right, and wants to feel good about himself.

>>9248694
>China study
No one cares.
>Meat was a luxury some centuries ago.
Where? For whom? What a vague, retarded statement.
>Indians don't eat meat because of religion.
>African tribes don't eat meat neither.
Typical incredibly ignorant Vegan posting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Indian_meat_dishes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilotic_peoples
????

>>9248694
>B12 is not because of meat, but because of bacteria.
Hilarious, only replying to one of the concerns with something that is spurious.
Shall we continue?
>Calcium:
Biochemist T. Colin Campbell suggested in The China Study (2005) that osteoporosis is linked to the consumption of animal protein because, unlike plant protein, animal protein increases the acidity of blood and tissues, which is then neutralized by calcium pulled from the bones resulting in hypercalciuria.
Campbell wrote that his China-Oxford-Cornell study of nutrition in the 1970s and 1980s found that, in rural China, "where the animal to plant ratio [for protein] was about 10 percent, the fracture rate is only one-fifth that of the U.S."[33]
Calcium is one component of the most common type of human kidney stones, calcium oxalate. Some studies suggest that people who take supplemental calcium have a higher risk of developing kidney stones, and these findings have been used as the basis for setting the recommended daily intake (RDI) for calcium in adults.[34][35][36]
>Iodine:
One study reported a "potential danger of iodine deficiency disorders due to strict forms of vegetarian nutrition, especially when fruits and vegetables grown in soils with low [iodine] levels are ingested."[37]
Vegan diets typically require special attention for iodine, as it is generally only available from sea vegetables and iodized salt and supplements. The iodine content of sea vegetables varies widely and may provide more than the recommended upper limit of iodine intake.[17]
>Iron:
It is recommended for vegans to eat iron-rich foods and vitamin C daily.[38]
However, due to the low absorption rate on non-heme iron it is recommended to eat dark leafy greens (and other sources of iron) together with sources of Vitamin C.[43]
>Choline:
It is recommended for vegans to eat food rich in choline, as plant based sources of choline are limited.[44]
>Cont...

>>9248694
>>9248714
>Cont...
>Choline:
Choline deficiency can lead to health problems such as liver damage, a result of liver cells initiating programmed cell death (apoptosis), as well as an increase in neural tube defects in pregnant women.[46]
n a study, 77% of men, 44% of premenopausal women, and 80% of postmenopausal women developed fatty liver or muscle damage due to choline deficiency, showing that subject characteristics regulate the dietary requirement.[47]
In order to avoid these problems, it's important to meet the adequate intake, especially since many multivitamins do not contain enough choline.[50]

Still not sounding that optimal!
And yet, eating a normal omnivorous, pescetarian or vegetarian diet, you don't have these issues!
It's almost like just eating plant material isn't the right thing either?!

>>9248700
meat isn't our main source of nutrition.
We can eat meat, but is not our main diet.

>>9248701
main diet of chimps isn't meat, faggot.

>>9248704
meat pollute more than cars and waste more water than even industries.

I guess you care about global pollution and enviroment.

>>9248710
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3317096/Forget-Paleo-try-VICTORIAN-diet-Eating-onions-cabbage-beetroot-cherries-meant-19th-century-people-healthier-today.html

Stay mad, meatcuck.

keep defending the main cause of global warming.

>>9248719
>Victorian diet
So you are saying that meat was a luxury specifically in in the UK during the reign of Victoria? That's a step down from the bold claim that meat was a luxury "some centuries ago," presumably in all parts of the world.

>>9248725
This faggot isn't even replying to actual sources on the Wikipedia page about this moronic diet.
But he'll happily post links to fucking DailyMail.
What has become of /sci/?

>>9248719
Main cause of global warming is CO2 emissions from energy industry (not agriculture)
Agriculture does play a role but the idea is we wouldn't be able to eat meat if we weren't meant to

>>9248714
>>9248718
>vegetarian, pescetarian
I never claimed to only eat plant shit.

I claimed to stop eating meat.
dumbass.

>>9248725
We never eat meat at our modern day levels.

We can still eat ocasionally meat, but meat producess many diseases.

>>9248727
yeah, keep defending those global warming cows, fucktard.
Is not like global warming is also a jew hoax.

>>9248719
Not being the main diet doesn't mean that they will be better without meat, proving my first point, balance, not going full vegan. Again I want to see your citations from the stomach statement, or you just believed your vegfags friends?

Also
>dailymail
you are dumb as fuck, go to /fit/ or something.

>>9248731
Then you're not a fucking vegan!
Well done. *clap, clap, clap*

>yeah, keep defending those global warming cows, fucktard.
>Is not like global warming is also a jew hoax.
Maybe, but what has that to do with the countless cited papers in that Wikipedia article?

You are here making claims only stating china study, vegan websites, or daily mail, that being said, I will leave this thread with the advice that if you want to debate, at least use real studies. Stay green and dumb faggot.

>>9248731
You have now gone down from "Why are you not vegan?" to "We can still eat ocasionally meat"
We are doing well.

>We never eat meat at our modern day levels.
Tell that to the transhumant tribes of the Eurasian steppe and South Africa who live off of the blood of cattle and horses.

>>9248740
Or Inuits, who require the meats and fats of animals to survive in their climate?

>>9248651
God said to eat meat. Fuck off Satan.

>>9248729
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/29/opinions/sutter-beef-suv-cliamte-two-degrees/index.html

wrong, cows emit more CO2 than cars.

>>9248736
I'm not claiming to be vegan fucktard.
I claimed eating meat is toxic and produces many diseases.

>>9248732
pic related.
feel free to refute it.

>>9248739
he can't even prove meat doesn't cause more enviromental pollution than cars.

lol

>>9248740
I claimed eating meat is toxic and cause disseases, which they do.

>>9248651
>don't you believe in science

>>9248751
Look at the OP, your OP:
>https://www.riseofthevegan.com
>riseofthevegan
>vegan
>Why aren't you vegan yet?
Mhm, that sounds like a capitulation of your bullshit.
And yet, you continue with the hypocrisy after:
>don't you believe in science and evidence?
>Posts a bunch of study related material
>Gets ignored
It sure sounds like you're the one who "doesn't believe in science and evidence".
That's a shame, a real shame.
But once again, what does this have to do with the scientific evidence?

>>9248758
I didn't claimed to be vegan though.
kek

>>9248763
Then what exactly is your argument?
Because it seems to change an awful lot.
Guess what that means?
You don't have an argument.
>*draws rhetoric*
>*teleports behind you*
>tsk, nothing personal brainjin
>*debana-waza and kiai*

>>9248751
>feel free to refute it.
Lions are carnivorous, so that entire section can be ignored.

But chimpanzees are omnivores and... what's this???? Their teeth look similar to humans???? OMG MAYBE THAT UNSOURCED INFOGRAPHIC IS WRONG?? MAYBE THE PERSON WHO WROTE IT ISN'T A PROFESSIONAL COMPARATIVE ZOOLOGIST AND VETERINARY DENTIST? NOOOOO!!!! ENTERWEBS WHY DID YOU LIE TO ME????

>>9248773
REKT

>>9248773
>>9248768
Despite their hunting behavior, however, only a very tiny percentage–perhaps as small as two percent–of a wild chimp’s diet consists of meat or insects.

http://www.allaboutwildlife.com/what-do-chimps-eat

>but chimps eat meat

what now meatcuck?

>>9248784
Why did you link >>9248768?
Because this most certainly wasn't your original argument with me.

Just for the lulz: ITV peaceful vegans:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuhXKvxz4-U

>>9248790
https://www.impossiblefoods.com

Stay mad meatcuck we can produce meat from plants.

>>9248796
>I'll keep strawmanning, so I don't have to address the health and efficiency concerns that was the real argument, until I decided to stop being vegan mid-thread!
You might have the B12 deficiency neurological damage, because you're certainly retarded.

>>9248784
So they are omnivores, good job admitting your is bullshit.

By the way, what percentage of ancient humans' diet was meat?

>>9248803
REKTing this faggot again.
I think he's trying to strawman that we are advocating for near total carnivorism.
Yet, I advocate a balanced diet.

>>9248800
Which can be solved with suplements.

what now?

>>9248806
a balanced diet is like 5% meat.

or eggs and fishs as protein sources.

>>9248809
Supplements? Sorry I don't think any animals with teeth like yours eat supplements. You'll have to avoid them.

>>9248809
>I need supplements!
Yeah, I just eat the cheaper meat and get the same effect.
Well done, thanks for proving my efficiency standpoint.

>a balanced diet is like 5% meat.
>or eggs and fishs as protein sources.
Shock horror, I'm a pescetarian!
Thanks for stating the obvious.
Guess what, you're still not that vegan you started out as.

Nice strawmen though, too bad I'm not a crow.

>>9248812
>>9248815
https://www.impossiblefoods.com/

is basically the same from a nutritional point as meat (B12 and other shit, read thier company page).

stay mad, meatcucks.

>wow, a piscistarian
>still mad you can live with eating insects and fish for those proteins
>mad meatcuck

>>9248822
Once again, proving my efficiency standpoint with another strawman.
You need to learn how to make and place an argument.

>>9248822
>Supplements
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/supplements-and-safety/

>>9248826
>>9248829
what energy standpoint?

at some point plant based meat will replace real meat.

They're even researching to make meat from test tubes (in vitro meat).

Stay mad meatcucks.

>>9248822
So, it's missing:
>Omega-3 fatty acids
>Calcium
>Iodine
>Iron (possibly)
>Choline
Whoa, so optimal!
Not.
Whereas, I can far more easily and more cheaply (both monetarily and energetically) breed and farm some fish that aren't deficient in those things.
Y'know, without having to go to a lab.

>>9248830
I like how you didn't answer >>9248829's supplement standpoint.

>>9248834
Also: SOY
Which contains phytoestrogens and I'm a male, so that isn't a positive either.

>>9248834
>>9248837
>the technology sucks, therefore is impossible for it to improve
>I rather consume something that is destroying the enviroment, filled with antibiotics and growth hormones, strogens and other chemical BS the jews put at the livestock
>I love colon cancer
stay mad meatcuck.

>>9248842
>I have to wait a couple of years (at least) to eat
>Totally optimal and efficient!
Fuck off, you've lost every argument you've had with me.
Even your non-arguments that you decided to make, because you lost the previous one.

>I love colon cancer
Strawman again.
I'm a pescetarian, which means I'm a white meater.

>>9248842
>I rather consume something that is destroying the enviroment, filled with antibiotics and growth hormones, strogens and other chemical BS the jews put at the livestock
[SEE PESCETARIAN]

>>9248842
>I love colon cancer
Hahahahahahahaha How The Fuck Is Colon Cancer Real Hahahaha Nigga Just Get a Colonoscopy Like Nigga Get Those Polyps Removed

>>9248842
Also, if you're concerned about xenoestrogens.
You shouldn't be consuming soy, that's for sure (>>9248839).

>>9248822
>is basically the same from a nutritional point as meat
Then why not eat meat? Either they are different, which means you can't eat them since chimps don't, or they are the same and you can eat meat.

>>9248845
>>9248849
>>9248854
so, you still don't eat meat, which causes disseases.

you still get your protein from animal food that is not meat.

>>9248856
>let's ignore all the antiobiotics and chemicals the jews put in livestock

>>9248858
Fish is meat.

>>9248858
>let's ignore all the antiobiotics and chemicals the jews put in livestock
This is fucking hilarious and pathetic since not only do I eat organic grassfed meat, its made by JEWS

http://growandbehold.com

>>9248751
>cars
kek

>>9248861
Sure, but people don't consider fish "meat"
also, you can eat insects, which has the same nutrients and is more healthy.

>>9248865
enjoy your disseases, meatcuck.

>he thinks grassfeed meat solves the pollution problem
classic meatcucks.

>>9248868
>muh teeth
BTFO
>muh supplements
>muh imaginary chemicals
BTFO
>muh Jews
BTFO
>muh imaginary diseases
BTFO

>>9248868
>Sure, but people don't consider fish "meat"
They do where I come from.
So, this is semantics.
>also, you can eat insects, which has the same nutrients and is more healthy.
I know, I've looked into this.
But they're also more toxic.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entomophagy#Toxicity

>>9248873
>still can't disprove meat produces more CO2 than cars
BTFO meatcucks.

>>9248874
It doesn't say some species can be edible and fine under regulated farms.

stay mad meatcuck giving more excuses for your meat adiction.

>>9248879
>It doesn't say some species can be edible and fine under regulated farms.
Agreed, but there's still a risk.
To be fair, there is a risk with larger predatory fish and the consumption of heavy metals, though that can be regulated with portion and spacing out those kind of meals with things like haddock.
As for insects, mealworms in an omelette is absolutely delicious, very nutty and earthy.

>>9248879
Grassland beef produces much less GHGs and actually mitigates GHGs from soil microbes by cutting grass.

http://www.fao.org/news/story/en/item/197623/icode/

BTFO again.

>>9248899
>huh duh produces less
>still produces 86% more than eating insects and 100% than making plant meat
>huh duh BTFO
kys

>>9248691
>If meat is bad, then why do we eat it?

Holy fuck, I didn't expect this from /sci/ of all places.

>>9248651
>don't you believe in science and evidence?

People don't believe in science and evidence. They believe in scoring cheap rhetorical points in their meaningless internet battles.

>>9248671
>if we need meat, then why our teeth, PH, chemicals in our stomatch, lenght of guts, urine acidity, instentinal flora and basically our physique is the same as frugivores and hervibores like horses rather than looking like bears (onminvores) or real carnivores?

This is completely wrong. Our entire digestive tract is very VERY similar to most carnivores and almost completely different from herbivores (starting from the teeth and going on to such things as our COMPLETE inability to digest cellulose, the stuff that ALL plants are primarily made of).

That vegan diet sure made your brain rot, anon, rethink your nutritional priorities.
Being vegan is also morally wrong as you are enabling an ideology that wants to destroy the entire biosphere with continuous deforestation (to enable your shitty monocrops) and actively working towards extinction of millions of species. With me eating meat I actually support those species.

>>9248661
>what a poor baby.

>>9248671
>what now fagget?

>>9248694
>Yeah nigger, what now?
>are u going to deny global warming?

>>9248719
>main diet of chimps isn't meat, faggot.
>Stay mad, meatcuck.

>>9248731
>Is not like global warming is also a jew hoax.

>>9248796
>Stay mad meatcuck we can produce meat from plants.

>>9248822
>stay mad, meatcucks.
>>wow, a piscistarian
>>still mad you can live with eating insects and fish for those proteins
>>mad meatcuck

>>9248830
>Stay mad meatcucks.

>>9248842
>stay mad meatcuck.

>>9248858
>>let's ignore all the antiobiotics and chemicals the jews put in livestock

>>9248868
>enjoy your disseases, meatcuck.
>>he thinks grassfeed meat solves the pollution problem
>classic meatcucks.

If eating nothing but plants turns you into this much of an insufferable asshole then I want nothing to do with it.

Only thing you're convincing me is to NOT be a vegan so I'm not associated with failed abortions like you.

>>9248661
>eating foods that contain any cholesterol above 0 mg is unhealthy
Isn't this, you know, wrong?

>>9249865
Your brain is basically 60% cholesterol derived fat. You actually need it. And not too little of it.