/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9210950
What would you recommend as an alternative to gastric bypass for fatties?

Current transition surgery

capitalism
eating meat
wars

>>9210950
Caesarean section
Circumcision
Sex change

>>9210953
Change of diet and good social support system. Pretty much what everyone with an addiction needs.

>>9210953
I just think it's an incredibly mutilating operation, for something that's five-sixths behavioral.

when a (working) satiety chemical or fine-tunable DBS or similar comes available, i think these operations will be looked back upon as a cautionary tale of 'do no further harm'

>>9210955
>wars

Everyone thinks that already.

>>9210974
Sooo, like a non-addicting meth or something?

>>9210972
are you implying we will not change sexes anymore?
Or that technique will become way more refined?
Some sci-fi (Iain Banks) talks about having it gene-coded in so your body does all the work itself by just thinking about it

>>9210982
I've read his books. They are retarded, just like he is. He's an extremely sick individual.

>>9210979
something like that, but mostly just a less invasive, more elegant way to break the obsession with food.
a bypass does this with punishing you with dumping syndrome every time you eat more than a spoonful and restricting your intake until that happens.

maybe even some kind of therapy

>>9210988
I'm interested what you think of the Azadians (player of games)

they have three sexes, but hate sex-change.
The dominant sex has a vagina

>>9210991
That was just a description of an alien society. Their genders don't really matter since that is something that is to them part of nature. The only problem with that book was their government and focus on the game. Who is dominant doesn't really matter. What matters is the author's use of social degeneracy portrayed in the book.

>>9210950
none, they are all sensible given the technology we have now

>>9211013
do you think lobotomy was sensible at the time?
or how we classed almost all mentally ill women as 'suffering from hysteria'?

they might have seemed sensible at the time, but given what we know now they're incredibly crude.

im talking about stuff like that, but from now to the future

>>9210950
Invasive surgery.

>>9211025
interested to know what you think is most likely to replace it

The toss of the coin.

>>9211016
there is a difference between lacking knowledge and being outright irrational

Gender reassignment surgery and hormone treatment. Especially young pre-teens/teens who are being dosed with hormone doses intended for the opposite sex

>>9210997
Never read Banks but it seems interesting, what do you feel is 'degenerate' about it?

Tfw about to lose another thread to the
>muh genders
Debate

>>9210955

>eating meat

meat aint going anywhere, but it will be lab grown meat

>>9211083
Do you agree with capitalism dying tho?
And because we will become a post-scarcity civilisation or because other filosophies will become dominant?

>>9211100
post-scarcity will never be reached, since people will always want more than what they have.

>>9211100

>Do you agree with capitalism dying tho?

Only when benevolent superhuman AIs are taking care of everything. Not anytime soon, if ever.

>>9211110
but people wont be able to compete with robots anymore

I think it's fun how much the data science and statistics world have relied on machine learning instead of picking up Topological Data Analysis. Honestly. It's so much more efficient and insensitive to noise.

>>9210975
Mentioning it gets you moral credit.

I also want to end wars. And cure cancer.

>>9210950
Prescribing pills for mental illness

>>9211118
>fun

Stupid autocorrect changed "dim" to fun

>>9210950
Heres another fun one
>training radiologists for 10 years to have them spend half their days in dim rooms muttering into their dictophone

I really hope this stops in <10 years from now

>>9210950

Sexual transition surgery

Abortion

>>9211016
>do you think lobotomy was sensible at the time?
I once had a lecture by a 85 year old psychiatrist who defended lobotomy. According to her, it was the best they could do before modern psychiatric medicine

>>9211100
>post scarcity society
>ever

Fuck off back to LessWrong to jerk yourself off

>>9211138
Yes. Thats exactly the point of this thread.

Interestingly shock or convulsive therapy carries the same stigma even though its still used.
Its alot more refined nowadays, but its still carpetbombing when it comes to tje intricacies of the brain

>>9210950
tractors as opposed to beasts of burden
dams and canals
dynamic systems in the life sciences

>>9211120
This post best post

>>9211140
Im not saying it is going to happen, I wanted to know how anon invisaged capitalism fading out if post scarcity is still very scifi

>>9211100
capitalism is not dying, its supply AKA life on earth is dying. Sure it will die with us, but thats not good news.
marxists shit brains have been going on about how capitalism will lead to le ebin gommie utopia for 100 years now, its never gonna happen.
we must actively bring to light and destroy the coercive social structures wherever they may be, especially the hedgmony humans have over life and capital has over humans
free life, fuck the state, fuck any lazy crackpot that thinks that is just going to happen when production becomes so sophisticated it will just fall into our laps

>>9211120
>>9211147
>was on heavy SSRI doses for years during early adulthood
should I be worried lads

>>9211155
You describe a utopia as unrealistic and trash it,
But then you go on to outline your utopia with equally outrageous goals.

Gotta meet us somewhere in the middle, friend.
Only then will we make a society worth living in

>>9211155
I don't get this argument at all. The more developed the technology, the cleaner the society. Solar energy, effective nuclear energy, water power plants gets more effective each day. The emission of freons, carbon dioxide, dangerous emissions from cars etc are all decreasing.

Give it ten years and western society will probably pretty sustainable. Other societies will probably follow suit as soon as they get their wealthy middle classes.


Also, arguing against capitalism from a environment point of view is crazy. The communistic societies we've seen didn't care at all about the environment (see: Aral Lake, heavy metal pollution in ex Soviet states, fissile fuel etc etc etc)

>>9211163
i dont want a utopia, i just want to get ride of the coercive bullshit like, private ownership, states, usury, absentee ownership, any hierarchical concentration of power
i dont want to create a utopia i just want to destroy the dystopian social creations that have subverted and externalized the real world. Then i want to be free in the real world im dont into doctrinal bullshit, im into anarchy

>>9210950
Lobotomy

>>9211183
what would a colony of ants achieve if they didn't work together

>>9211178
>Also, arguing against capitalism from a environment point of view is crazy. The communistic societies we've seen didn't care at all about the environment (see: Aral Lake, heavy metal pollution in ex Soviet states, fissile fuel etc etc etc)
Developing countries in general dont care about enviroment, no matter if communist or capitalist

>>9210950
Machine learning based marketing

>>9211178
>I don't get this argument at all. The more developed the technology, the cleaner the society. Solar energy, effective nuclear energy, water power plants gets more effective each day. The emission of freons, carbon dioxide, dangerous emissions from cars etc are all decreasing.
bullshit, steadily rising on the global scale, we build new cars, dams, and roads all the time
>Give it ten years and western society will probably pretty sustainable
more bullshit, you have no idea how global markets work
a society that sustains itself from the destruction(capitalization) of other societies is not sustainable, more imporantly al of the actual living world is what is being destoryed.
>world bank gives Congo and Indonesia a loan to chop down old growth rainforest for hardwood extraction
>sells the lumber on the international market
>bought by global capitalist consumers in the west and far east
"look how sustainable we are yall"
>the rest of the biomass is made into charcoal by the people that moved in after the forest is cleared
>native populations violently displaced and lose everything they have
>forced into abject poverty in a strange world
>massive amounts of biodiversity loss
"they will follow soon"
>cleared land planted with oil palm to be sold to the international market to make candy and chips
all done unilaterally by the state and finance, people where robbed of their homes and we permanently lost a large chunk of life, the glue that holds the world together. This pattern is pervasive over the entire planet, there are no longer marine ecosystems capable of supporting large fisheries for long, its fucked.
>from a environment point of view
i dont believe environments actually exist, they are just the virtual byproduct of a system that has been abstracted from the whole of reality.
>The communistic societies we've seen didn't care at all about the environment
not a communist, im certainly not a statist either

Sex change on children. Ig Gender dysphoria comes back as an illness then sex change altogether
Non-chemical late abortions

>>9210953
Camps, but instead of gates we use slightly narrow corridors

>>9210972
>Caesarean section
And what exactly would the alternative be? Letting the mom and the baby die? C-sections will always be a necessary backup for abnormal pregnancies.

Heres my list
>drugging kids diagnosed with adhd/add
>cutting the corpus collosem for severe epilepsy patients
I know that one is already pretty rare but once we can cure epilepsy with a single injection its going to seem insane
>sex changes
>organ transplants from other humans followed by a regimen of immunosuppressants
We will get much better at growing organs and/or preventing the body from rejecting them.
>diagnosing depression
This one is controversial but ive spoken to a few people who were diagnosed as clinically depressed and every single time it was because some other part of their life went to shit first. In most cases once that gets back in order the depression goes away. Feeling sad/depressed constantly is perfectly normal for someone with a shit life and turning to drugs to solve those problems is exactly what addicts do. We are instilling this belief that drugs can be used to cope with lifes problems when counseling, physical assistance with said problems, and even something as simple as having someone to confide in would be exponentially more helpful.
>but muh chemical imbalances
No shit. What the fuck do you think emotions are? The brain scan of someone who just heard a good joke is going to be vastly different than one of someone at normal baseline readings. Does that mean we should devise a drug to “fix” comedy? Fuck off with your neurotransmitter chemicals causing depression. Depression and a change in brain chemistry /activity should be expected to go hand in hand, you can see it happen in real time by showing someone upsetting images in an MRI.
>but muh persistent seritonin deficiency
Thats because the pictures in the MRI go away when you leave the MRI, problems in your life dont.

Sex changes for sure. They are the equivalent of telling a schizophrenic person that the voices in their head are perfectly normal and they should listen to what they have to say.

>>9211185
they work together because it is their nature to cooperate, just like humans
ants dont need a state to govern them, they get by with mutual cooperation, they dont follow orders from their queen they feed here when she is hungry and move her if she is in trouble, and they all cooperate to feed eachother and keep their home safe its a beautiful proof of mutual aid.
behavioral ecology is the study of anarchy
humans were the same way before all of the bullshit(neolithic), now that we more knowledgeable and technologically sophisticated, think of how great we would be if we would just cut the shit and go back to living in the real world.

>>9211209
I get your point but I stay hopeful. Todays car emit way, way less than cars made only 15 years ago. Electric cars are starting to hit the market big-time now.
As for deforesting, I'm not too read up on that so I can't really make an argument. But my belief (or hope) is that it will decrease as countries like Congo or Brazil or wherever gets a more stable economy.

>>9211237
energy, electricty and materials that go into electric cars still need to become sustainable thought.
but i agree it is a step in the right direction

>>9211218
>And what exactly would the alternative be?

Your asking to predict the far future medical technology? Who knows, maybe they will have some sort of gene tech that reorders infants'/mothers' bodies so that you never have such problems in the first place.

>>9211069
There's a huge list of stuff. He basically tosses in things just for shock value. Though, I'm not sure it is for shock value in other books since some of the stuff is really fucked up. Basically, /b/-posting in book form for sci-fi cultures.

>>9211028
Nanobots and gene alterations obviously. You take a pill and an hour later you are pissing out that brain tumor or your left kidney is replaced.

Which technologies should you invest in now, to help the future?

>>9211237
>But my belief (or hope) is that it will decrease as countries like Congo or Brazil or wherever gets a more stable economy
i cant blame you for hoping but the worst is the case, the economy is destabilized because autonomy has been transferred from the hands of the people and into international finance and transnational organizations, this has a very destablizing effect when outside influnces detirmined soley to maximize profit control your resources and have control over what is produce, it causes wide spread famine when corn and cotton are planted instead of millet because the international market pays more for them despite the fact that one doesnt feed people and the other cannot handle drought, this is why there are so many starving people in keyna when drought hits
the west pushed "market liberalization"(destablized traditional economies and erosion of democratic control of the economy) onto the rest of the world
the economic stability of the west and china come from destabilizing the third world
deforestation is atrocious and every worse, most fishery are over fished, most coral reefs are set to die, water no longer flows in a predictable pattern due to human obstruction and adaptive capacity of our ecological systems is at an all time low. This wide spread ecological destruction along with free energy in the climate spell doom for human civilization

i can guarantee that manufacturing those cars will bring far more harm then they will ever save in full economy over people just driving used cars
if we where smart we would have begun to rip out roads, dams, and have replaned our infrastructure from a landscape perspective, we should let auto manufactures go out of business instead of bailing them out, and we should use far less energy, agriculture and industry need to be overran by Luddites and corporations should go back to being illegal.
more importantly we should smash the state and the capitalist hegemony it protects

>>9211326
anything space related
specifically space industry

getting that up and running would benefit everything across the board

>>9211326
Biotech, but there aren't any particularly spectacular companies. Honestly, biotech/gene engineering is the future, but it could be anyone's game at this point, even a literally nobody right now.

>>9211211
>slightly narrow corridors
That's pretty ingenious. I wish we could get our healthcare system to fund something like this. Drop them in, have some exercise equipment and water and they can leave whenever they fit.

>>9210955
War has been the single most important drive for humanity when it comes to scientific, cultural or technological achivements.
Without war we would be no more than animals, you would live everyday in fear of being killed by another predator when the hunger is too painful to stay hiding.
You would have a 1-10% chance to survive to adulthood, and a life expectancy of 30 years max if you did survive.

War is the single best thing humanity invented, it literally IS what defines us as a race.

>>9210953
eat less than you need

>>9210982
I think he's implying that they'll eventually adjust the brain to fix the body, instead of vice versa

>>9211326
Immortality. There would them be time to invest in everything.

>>9210950
Alcoholics Anonymous

Gaussian models being applied where they don't belong (economic forecasting)

>>9212162
Amen

>>9212162
why?

fluoride

It can lower your IQ 15 points and all it does is prevent cavities. Even it's abilities to prevent cavities is debatable.

>>9212222
Quads of truth.

>>9212222
I stopped brushing my teeth, am i smort now?

>>9212162
Nassim pls

>>9210950
>blasting levodopa through your body to help Parkinson's disease
What's the alternative? Don't say dopamine agonist you fucking premed faggot

>>9210972
>Circumcision
This has been considered backwards. barbaric and dumb for at least 40 years in English speaking countries and dumb in the rest of Europe much longer.
With current methods having it done for actual medical reasons is like removing a stomach for ulcers because you refuse to take medicine. It's only done to keep (((them))) happy for religious reasons rather than for medical reasons.

I think we're going to eventually look back on xanax the same way we do heroin

>>9210950
- For-profit journals behind paywalls
- Mass scientific illiteracy / pop """""""""""""science"""""""""""""
- Politics having the absurd influence it does on each and every scientific field; like how hunters and ranchers are allowed to have near total control over ecology and """""environmentalism"""""
- Peer review in general
- Judenphysik nonsense - spacetime is not real
- Science "culture" - how any field gets stuck in generational ruts and all the stupid old faggots have to die off before new ideas are "permitted"
- Rampant anthropocentrism
- Technojesus bullshit

Christ, how long do we have? How about I just say "everything". Yeah that pretty much covers it. Everything.

Sexual transition operation

>>9211517
How do wars allow us to prosper? What did you mean by that?

>>9210950
Probably circumcision

>>9210955
>he thinks humanity will ever be past war
>he thinks market forces will ever go away
someday we could have artificially grown meat I'll grant you that one.

>>9211118
Uh. I wikipediaed that and now my mind is full of fuck. What does it do in brainlet terms?

>>9212561
You can use non-fluoride toothpaste.

>>9210950

The belief that trans people are mentally ill and that surgery/transitioning is bad will be regarded as backward as the belief in and persecution of witches.

>>9210950
do stomas count? stoma patient here and it kinda felt fairly primitive to have my colon cut out and the rest of my guts re-routed through my abdomen

wheres my cybronic colon?

>>9211159
You probably won't be with that many drugs in your system.

>>9213759
>won't give peace a chance
Imagine what John Lennon's butthole looks like... are you a dove yet?
>Thinks markets imply capital
Wew lad
capitalism and market economies are not the same thing
Isn't it funny how most capitalist say something like "muh markets", or "not communism" when you ask them what capitalism even means, they don't know, because that information has been erased from their education. Capital is private property, very different from personal possession. Markets actually work best in libertarian socialism.
>He
Did you just assume anons gender?
androcentrism baka

Dentistry.

>>9210950
Dental fillings. Cavities can heal naturally with diet.
https://youtu.be/LmxvWwYHma0?t=4m47s

>in science you think we will look back on as barbaric, dumb or ass-backward in the future?

FUCKING THIS

>>9213075
What do you think would be the first steps to fix any of these issues?

>>9213968
Killing off stupid people. Eugenics basically.

>>9214064
Which by the way, mankind will always be too libertarian and pussy to do, and too stupid and evil to ever do correctly if it did. So basically there's no hope. Mankind will fall into the pit.

>>9213947
How the fuck would you do this in the future?

If there is a mechanical obstruction you need to bypass it.

Surgeries being done by humans will be seen as supremely primitive most definitely.

>>9211218
Youve never been depressed and therefore cant concieve it. That and your anecdotal evidence combine to mean your opinion has no merit.

>>9210950
Our treatment of people with mental disorders - dosing them up with a cocktail of drugs or locking them up, instead of actually fixing the brain. If someone has a broken leg, you dont diagnose them as having 'falling down and screaming disorder' and instead of treating the injury, locking them away so no-one is upset by their whimpering or to prevent them falling against someone.

>>9213759
We have artificially grown meat now, it's just expensive.

>>9213947
Create a miniature wormhole into your bladder.
Teleport piss out.

I think in the future it will be considered foolish to prioritize the website from which a PDF is downloaded over the scientific content of the PDF itself

It's one thing to say, "I didn't download it because that website is stupid," and it is quite another to say, "I downloaded it and read it but I don't acknowledge the facts reported therein because that website is stupid."

>>9214066

I strongly doubt that if you were in charge, you could bring yourself to do something this morally reprehensible, yet you spout big words like they mean nothing. Trying to impress the big boys?

Second, killing dumb people is not a solution. Better education of the next generation is.

>>9215212

That is already considered foolish by anyone who can think independently.
Trouble is. I very few people are capable of that fear nowadays.

>>9215223
>>Better education
>throwing money away is the solution
I don't think so kevin

>>9215223
>I strongly doubt that if you were in charge, you could bring yourself to do something this morally reprehensible
You doubt I'd be capable of passing legislation banning those unfit to breed and enforcing it? You don't have to kill people to instate eugenics policy.

>Second, killing dumb people is not a solution.
Oh ho ho I beg to differ. It is THE solution to basically all problems. Kill all the stupid and all the sociopaths and mankind's problems are basically at an end. Not to mention the world's.

>Better education of the next generation is.
>Culture will save us!
You fucking simp. Have you any idea how many times mankind has gone around that hamster wheel? The GENES need to change.

>>9213968
For the paywall journals I think govt subsidized; football money= journal money

sex changes, at least in the disgusting way they are done nowadays.

my prediction is things will eventually be done via extraction of genomes from your mother, and splicing genes from your cells with the extra X chromosome your mother has, or splicing in the y chromosome from your father, then using new spliced genome to grow reproductive organs and performing a full transplant.

this or simply eliminating the y chromosome present in males and replicating the existing x one.

this would be done with gene therapy beforehand to maximise acceptance of new organs, and also hormones.


i believe this could actually change someone's sex, as gene therapy would cause the body to produce the hormones and select other chemicals present in the opposite sex, ans full organ transplant would mean they would also have the full function of the opposite sex (i.e reproduction) this might also be supplemented by hormones.

i also see crucial advancements in surgeries regarding the larynx and other things associated with voice, for the full transition.

of course our understanding of genes, gene therapy, and how to grow organs would have to greatly advance, but we are talking about the future after all. the biggest challenge i see in is making a feasible gene therapy that would replace a whole chromosome.

>>9210950
Def chemo.

>>9215365


who died and made you God, ya fuckin tard. Work on a way to make everyone smarter, as opposed to getting yourself on a terrorist watch list.

>>9215479

that sounds fun, i want to become a Stacy

>>9215527
>who died and made you God
The Biosphere. Which you killed.

>>9215534


just a heads up for anyone with access to anything dangerous, that is spouting off about wanting to hurt people, should probably review what happened to the professor in Texas.

>>9210950
I think the way we kill animals for experimentation in labs will be seen as barbaric. I have to kill mice next year for project work and the method is to pin the head and pull the tail quickly, breaking the cervical spine (neck).

While there's the reasoning behind it of being quick and cheap, I think future developments will resent that logic and reasoning.

>>9215235

Who said anything about throwing money away?

>>9215365

By dint of actually believing that eugenics is a solution to the world's problems, I deem you stupid. Ergo, according to your own logic, you are now forbidden to breed. Do you see the problem here? There is no absolute measure of when someone is stupid, it is fundamentally a relative measure.

Second, these "stupid" people may carry important genes when it comes to immunities or certain physical aspects - genes that may well save humanity at some point in the future - which we could never ever foresee.
You would breed on one single trait alone (intelligence) and still maintain that this is a good idea?

>>9215469

Simple: have universities host the papers and articles that one of their faculty writes (the universities then also become publishers for bibliographical purposes). Freelance scientists can either self-host or have their papers hosted on the closest university servers (for example in or near their home town).
The universities all keep these files in a torrent-like state so that they can freely be archived by anyone who wishes to do so (additionally to the university's servers)

>>9215543
What a retard. You get sterilized first.

>>9215584
>By dint of actually believing that eugenics is a solution to the world's problems, I deem you stupid.
That's because you're fucking retarded. The opinions of the stupid are nothing compared to factual evidence. Only fucking retards would be status quo zombies when everything is such a god damned mess and humans are headed for self-extermination along with a sizable portion of the biosphere. You, personally, are the problem. Get your nuts snipped.

>>9213909
yeah stomas are pretty lame for quality of life, but we cant do bowel transplants yet :(

>>9215617
You would probably the first to get sterilized. And for good measure, a lobotomy, although the medical wonder of a person without any brain actually living might at least let you have some sort of legacy.

Retard.

>>9215584
>Who said anything about throwing money away?
you >>9215223

>>9210950
Braces. It's painful as fuck. Literally sticking metal in your mouth.

We'll just have genetically perfect children.

>>9210955

>>9215212
fucking this

>what are some current methods in science you think we will look back on as barbaric, dumb or ass-backward in the future?

Anything that Salafist don't like as within a couple hundred years everyone will be a Salafist Muslim

This means that love will be considered a barbaric method of getting a mate as according to them love is a mental illness

Vivisection.

>>9216244

Why is your reading comprehension on the level of a five-year-old?

>>9217205
Your reading comprehension is on the level of a 5 year old if you need everything spelled out to you

The Nuss Procedure

>>9210953
Gut bacteria transplant and some mother fucking discipline

>>9211120
I don't agree 100%, however forced medication is pretty barbaric.

The application of social sciences to advertising & propaganda

>>9211118
>Topological Data Analysis
quick rundown?

>>9211155
>we must actively bring to light and destroy the coercive social structures wherever they may be
This is LITERALLY what marx said

>>9217222
You are interpreting stuff into the things I posted that are in no way inferred or implied by the post itself.
You think education is money thrown out the window. You need to fucking elaborate on this, as any clear thinking person will disagree with you. Now don't pretend your bullshit opinion is self evident you giant idiot.

Jesus Christ, I thought this is the "smartest" board, yet you cannot even follow a simple discussion.

>>9217459
That guy might be an idiot but you're the most retarded of the bunch.

>>9210950
Abortion.

>>9217509
Nice samefagging

Age of consent laws / persecution of pedophiles

>>9210950
Fecal transplants

>there used to be a time when people would shove other people's poop up their butts.

I think the emphasis we place on ridiculously high p-values will seem kind of simplistic and even superstitious.

abortions

>>9213743
Not him, but military industrial complexes wind up inadvertently inventing things that are a boon to their civilian populace. The internet, computers in general, satellite communications and GPS, epi-pens.

Granted, these aren't the sole source of useful inventions but it is kinda neat how stuff got invented to help us kill humans better, and then it turned out to be useful for other stuff, too.

>>9210950
>what are some current methods in science you think we will look back on as barbaric, dumb or ass-backward in the future?

All current methods of surgery where we physically break skin/muscle/bone.

In the furture we will be able to use precision based lasers which can operate in-vivo without the need for the aformentioned.

>>9211159
other than dick problems and maybe other side effects like getting chunky, nah

>>9212162
This