/sci/ - Science & Math

>get to Mars
>collapse under your own weight after a year of atrophying bone density
>implying cancer due to radiation from no atmosphere won't kill you first
have fun, i guess

>>9191296
>go to Mars
>die of asphyxiation cause atmosphere is C02

This is how stupid you sound.

>>9191291
Musk should instead help cure IBS, so I can shit again. I would volunteer myself as a Mars colonist if he helped me first

>>9191302
>astronauts do not have oxygen tanks
Are you actually retarded?

>>9191296
Obviously we would live in domes and shelters while creating greenhouses and working to terraform the planet.

Only a dumbass would think we'd just go there and that's that.

Scientists are well aware of how to adjust to the gravity and work out to maintain bone density.

>>9191310
I can't tell if you're trolling me or just this stupid.

My point was they're not going there unprepared and without a solution to these simple problems. Mars has 1/3 gravity, which means all you need to do to counter the effects is strap some weight on your body and work out. As for radiation, there are too many ways to shield radiation to bother listing here. But radiation is covered.

>>9191307
I'll volunteer my whole family if he lets you die constipated

>>9191291
JELLO BABIES

>>9191328
why would you even say that, jerk?

i don't get the Mars fixation. Build on the Moon, prove it can be done, prove there is a reason to be up there doing stuff. And, the money will follow.

When people say go to Mars just because, it just shows you have some weird Mars fetish. good luck coming up with money for that.

ok so we get to mars then

Where do we get water? Groceries? Fresh fruits and vegetables? Entertainment? Fresh air?

Where do we throw away our trash? What about piss and feces? What about hospitals? Vitamin D from the sun?

>>9191458
He's already got the money, and the contracts. At this point it's just a matter of the engineering and design.

>>9191494
We send supplies in waves, before people even get there.

>water
Easy. We bring enough from earth, then recycle and filter our piss. We'll be in domes initially so if it evaporates it will get collected and reused.

>fresh fruits and vegetables
We'll bring the seeds for it and cultivate it in gardens and greenhouses in the domes. Easy.

>Entertainment
What is solar power? That's how everything will be powered, and rechargeable batteries.

>>9191593
Oops, pressed send on accident.

>>9191494
>Entertainment
That's how people will charge their tablets and whatever else. Besides, if you're bored, just jerk off or have sex. That's what they did in the old days.

>Fresh Air
We'll bring it and we'll be in domes initially while the planet is terraforming. The plants we bring will eat the carbon dioxide and give back oxygen. Everything will be controlled inside the domes initially.

>Where do we throw away our trash?
Outside, silly. Where else?

>Piss
Save it, filter it, reuse the water.

>Feces
Throw it out, burn it, who cares?

>Hospitals
They're called mobile hospitals. Just like the military uses. You can bring everything you need with you, and just get some qualified doctors to be part of the colonization crew.

>Vitamin D
They have pills that supplement that stuff. Obviously they'll bring it and more will come on resupply missions.

Bump itty bump bump

>>9191291
Yes he's right, now please fuck my wife with your negrocock

>>9191296
Build colonies on tilted rings on maglev tracks. Problem solved.

https://twitter.com/robert_zubrin

>ZUBRIN IS AN ANTI-TRUMP SJW FAGGOT LIBERAL

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

No wonder all his shit has been so fucking stupid
Buncha clown larpers

What a nutcase

>>9191307
>IBS
>colonist
pottery

>>9191458
I think the idea is that the Moon depends on Earth for its orbit, and if some catastrophe happens to Earth, the moon is screwed too in many cases. Of course, this isn't the case with Mars. Diversify our habitats and we'll have more chances of continuing our species even in the event of an extinction event.

Iirc it would take something like a year to get to Mars using our current rocket tech? We'd need some serious planning ahead and resource management to make a Mars colony work.

I'd say that we'd need to leave colonists on Mars for a year or two at a time at first, since it'd be incredibly difficult to find someone willing to sever all ties with family and friends at home forever but also be well trained an self disciplined enough to be considered for starting the "new world" as it were. Slotting aside 4 years (2 for traveling there and back) seems much more feasible in the early years. Plus I'm sure scientists would want to study the effects of Martian gravity back home, too.

Just a brainlet spitballing here.

>>9191928
>it's real

kek, what a retard.

>>9191291
Elon will never get us to Mars he just wants all our government's money

>>9191593
Mars has a fair bit of water ice
could melt that and use it, recycle it for more efficiency

>>9192021
You mean our money, since that's where the gov gets it from.

I mean, if my money is going to be stolen from me and given to cronies, I'd rather it go to making reusable rockets than wasting it with garbage like Solyndra, but it's still wrong.

>>9192011
>moon depends on earth for it's orbit
there's not a fucking thing we could do that would fuck that one up
to do so would involve literally blowing up the earth, and we do not have nearly enough weapons, or are even close to the weapons needed to do it

>>9192021
You spammed this very same post about reusable rockets, yet he proved your ass wrong
he's yet to give up on a project, so declaring he will is in direct conflict with all evidence, and speaks like you're some ass blasted luddite

>>9192031
We might not, but other shit in space probably could.

>>9192044
It would take another planet sized body smacking into the earth to do that
there is no asteroid that could ever do such a thing
asteroids that could cleanse the planet of life, Many, destroy the planet outright, No

>>9191291
>> Titan
Fuck no.

>>9191458
If you destroy the moon by mining and all that you'll destroy earth. If you destroy Mars meh

>Titan is next.
Yeah, ballooning in Venus' atmosphere 40 mio km away at Earth-like temperature, Earth-like pressure and Earth-like radiation levels with plentiful solar energy is too hard, let's go 630 mio km to a 100 Kelvin frozen hell of liquid methane lakes instead, grand idea.

what's the probability that our microorganisms adapt and mutate when we get to Mars to cause hyper aggressive viruses to arise and then subsequently taint any future colonization with life threatening illnesses?

>>9191310
Holy shit are you serious right now

>>9191494

Like wtf i just checked there's not even walmart there.

How u gonna buy stuff there lol?

>>9191322
>Mars has 1/3 gravity, which means all you need to do to counter the effects is strap some weight on your body and work out.
We actually don't know what living in 1/3 gravity does to the human body.

It seems intuitively obvious that it will be much better than living in zero g, but there's no experimental evidence. We've just been dicking around randomly in space, wasting time on keeping people in zero g for longer when we already know it's unacceptably bad for us, rather than doing important work on artificial gravity and the health effects of fractional g.

We know that doing exercise helps in zero g, but we also know it's not a total fix. Fractional gravity may pose similar problems.

>>9192164
Venus has zero hydrogen.

>>9191593
>We'll be in domes initially
No, you won't. Domes are absolutely retarded on planets without a thick atmosphere not only because of solar radiation but also because of space debris, and the only other solid bodies with a thick atmosphere are either scorchingly hot or bitterly cold. On most solar bodies you'd be forced to live mostly in underground tunnels, in most cases including the agriculture which will be insufficiently and inefficiently lighted otherwise (artificial lighting being able to control exactly the amount and color of light and to provide it 24/7 for quicker growth). That is if the human body can survive in low gravity long term without serious damage in the first place.

>>9191600
>Outside, silly. Where else?
>Throw it out, burn it, who cares?
Ah yes, ruined the environment in Murrika, time to leave and ruin the rest of the solar system. Not to mention dying if you arrive with a limited amount of resources and don't integrate them into a cycle.

>>9192191
It's not going to be as easy to harvest as melting some million years old ice, but factually you're incorrect.

>>9191291
It's so sad Mars is small. Imagine a planet with 1.5 or even 2g, that would be an awesome planet fitness lmao

>>9192191
Venus has plenty of hydrogen. There's about ten trillion tons of it in the atmosphere as water vapor, which would be comparably difficult to extract as CO2 in Earth's atmosphere. It's also in the sulfuric acid clouds, though I think this amount is less and doubt it's better to extract hydrogen here.

Carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, and hydrogen are all abundant. Some means of mining the surface would be necessary to get the full range of necessary elements.

>>9192199
God, all of these weirdos obsessed with playing with their own shit.

The Martian soil is rich in elements necessary for life, like Earth soil. There's no scarcity of the things you can recover from shit, and won't be for thousands of years of habitation.

Furthermore, Mars is cold. No matter where you dump sewage, it will simply freeze. It seems in good taste to bury it, so it won't dry up and blow around and you don't have to look at it laying around on the ground, but nothing more elaborate is necessary.

>>9191291
getting to mars is not all that matters.

>>9192246
Yes, it is. As a species we'll inevitably have to evolve beyond digging shit over until it's empty and then leaving our trash behind.

>>9192190

There is actually evidence that bone density regeneration requires to reach a certain mechanical stress threshold before it even activates, so living on Mars may be no better than living in zero g.

Problems with radiation or recycling can be solved but there is no way to get around low gravity issues in the long term, humans need 1g.

Future colonies will most likely be on rotating space stations, with planets such as Mars serving only as mining sites, but not a place where people actually live.

>>9191458

Is it that bad that he just wants to go to mars. Do you need some grand justification for everything you do?

>>9192264
>so living on Mars may be no better than living in zero g
You can wear weighted clothes to get the same stresses on Mars. You can't do that trick in zero G.

>>9192190
>>9192264
What about banked rotating rings? Fully aware that they would require silly amounts of mechanical engineering outside of zero gravity environments, but could they theoretically create a resulting force equal to Earth gravity in a partical gravity environment?

>>9191458

Moon has no hydrogen and carbon. There may be some in polar ice but it is not known how much. Mars has all the needed elements for colonization. I do agree that Moon is better as the first step, tough. We need fast iteration to perfect space colonization technology. Cant do that when launch window is only every two years.

>>9192276
I don't think some cargo pants and jackets with weights in the pocket will suffice. The force would have to be spread across the body exactly as evenly as on Earth, including your fingertips.

>>9192276
JELLO BABIES

>yfw the temperature lows in the warmest regions of Mars are warmer than the coldest regions on Earth

>>9192264

rotating space stations also enable human expansion basically without limitations

want more land? build more land

while Elon is aiming for Mars, this is the endgame of Bezos (Amazon, Blue Origin)

https://www.space.com/37572-jeff-bezos-trillion-people-solar-system.html

>>9192292
>yfw the Martian ice reserves are basically in the opposite places of those regions

>>9192281
Wear chain-mail.
>inb4 it's bulky
It's really not. It's nearly as flexible as cloth.

Your fingertips don't need it. Nor your arms. You can get the stresses there via just lifting weights.

>2058
>Earth is in complete ruin
>food and drinking water scarcity, burning temperatures, major cities flooded, hundred millions displaced, old epidemics resurfaced, walls go up all around the places saving the few from the masses
>everybody knows the jig is up
>Elun Musk and 50 millionaires that could pay for the trip + 100 technicians that can actually work this thing leave Earth to colonize Mars
>30 years go by since landed on Mars
>the process of colonization is doing fine but we haven't changed the basic socio-economic structures that determines our every interaction
>a small elite is emerging from the profits they receive by not paying us our full work's worth
>we might have left Earth, but brought with us what killed it: capitalism
I guess I should go back to work now, cuz Musk's men are watching.

>>9191291
>Titan is next.
europa m8

>>9192293
>want more land? build more land
From what, you clown, other than flying soil into space from Earth at five grand a kilo?

>>9192297
>socialism ruins something
>blame capitalism
Every fucking time. There aren't enough helicopters for you another method has to be devised.

>>9192299

assteroids

>>9192301
>we are living under socialism
And I'm writing from Mars.

>>9192212
what?!

with 0.3g you can build massive structures! Imagine a sky scraper 3 times taller than anything on earth. At 0.3g giant gundam robots become feasible. You could safely run them on nuclear power cause there's nobody around too.

What we REALLY need for life on mars is energy and the ability to adapt to changing or unknown situation. I won't say it's the best idea, but living inside a giant gundum robot gives it an extreme amount of adaptability, and making it thorium powered means refueling from earth can be done with a tiny 1m3 cube craft at sent at high speeds.
Getting there may take months, but assuming they can make all the materials they need (with sufficient power supply) then the only thing they'd need from earth is thorium which could be shipped in a few short weeks at high speed.

>>9192302
Tell me how that goes.

>>9192301
Are you denying that capital has the most power in the world?

>>9192299
>flying soil into space from Earth at five grand a kilo
First of all, that price only stayed around because the market was for a few satellite launches per year. The unavoidable energy costs are more like $10/kg, and that assumes that the cost of energy doesn't go down.

Secondly, Earth isn't the only place to get material. The moon is airless and low-g, making it suitable for simple, efficient linear motor launchers powered by nuclear reactors or solar collectors. Even on Mars, the reduced gravity and lower air pressure means only one stage is needed with mass fractions under 70% propellant.

>>9192324

all the chemical elements are available in asteroids and there is no need to get them from the bottom of a deep gravity well such as Earth

>>9191494
>Entertainment?
fat lazy american zombie detected

>Birds in the exclusion zone around Chernobyl are adapting to -- and may even be benefiting from -- long-term exposure to radiation
>Laboratory experiments have shown that humans and other animals can adapt to radiation, and that prolonged exposure to low doses of radiation increases organisms' resistance to larger, subsequent doses.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140424223057.htm
Exactly how much ionizing radiation is there on the surface of mars?

Clearly life is more than capable of adapting to ionizing radiation, we simply haven't done so because life's never needed to before. Is the radiation levels on Mars low enough that life in general can adapt to it? And if humans could adapt, how many generations would it take to happen naturally? And is there a way to speed that up or provide pharmacological equivalent to natural ionizing radiation immunity? What are the limits to natural radiation immunity? Could astronauts be acclimated very slowly to it so they can travel to Mars in an unshielded craft?

>create giant glass dome on mars unshielded from radiation
>life adapts to radiation
>farm radiation immune plant/animals
>extract immune properties and process into drug
>ship radiation drugs back to post-WW3 nuclear holocaust Earth

>>9192334
I meant call me back to tell me about how catching astroids worked out for you.

>>9192366
>Exactly how much ionizing radiation is there on the surface of mars?
Enough to significantly increase cancer rates among humans. Not enough that you have to worry about radiation-shielding crops and livestock.

>>9192366
>On 26 April 2012, scientists reported that lichen survived and showed remarkable results on the adaptation capacity of photosynthetic activity within the simulation time of 34 days under Martian conditions in the Mars Simulation Laboratory (MSL) maintained by the German Aerospace Center (DLR).[19][20]

Why is colonizing other planets so important to everyone. Does it scare you that we might go in a different path than your niche shitty comics said we would? Do you fags also want flying cars?

>>9192436
Look at Earth and what humans have done to it. We've changed the climate, destroyed habitats, and now with nukes and our retarded leaders, we risk destroying it all over some silly politician's wars.

We need to get away and start over. We need to expand and continue in other places. If we don't eventually, sooner rather than later we're going to goo extinct if we stay on earth.

>>9192488
Nah man. Giving people an escape plan nullifies the mutually assured destruction which has kept a nuclear Holocaust at bay. I'm all for responsibly exploring new worlds but right now the human race isn't mature enough.

>>9192436
Flying cars are absolutely retarded, don't be silly. The airspace already requires meticulous monitoring for a fraction of the traffic that roads receive, and defects will cost you your life, not just leave you stranded on the shoulder.

>>9192436
>>Do you fags also want flying cars?

>implying they don't exist

>>9191291
>Literally being retarded
Humans can't even get Earth right. They can't survive on Mars. What're they gonna do, send all the rich cunts to mars to die of microgravity and start eating each other once they realize robots aren't going to do all the manual labor for them? Not to mention the fact that humans have NEVER ONCE created a self-sustaining habitat that actually works. All attempts have been monumental failures, so it'd be fascinating to hear how they're going to, ya know, fucking breathe.

>Too inept to build a functional civilization in a garden with all resources available
>Now let's do it on hard mode with no resources!
Fucking. Stupid.

Elon Musk is just a welfare whore.

>>9192488
If you can't play Earth on easy mode, you sure as fuck can't succeed on Mars on hard mode.

>>9192301

>>9192552
I just don't get why a STEMfag would want to defend capitalism. It's a completely defective and wasteful system that is prone to crises every 15 years.

>>9192599
Real capitalism just haven't been tried yet. Neither the USA nor the globalized market are truly capitalist systems, they're always held back by selfish regulation.

>>9192516
>The airspace already requires meticulous monitoring for a fraction of the traffic that roads receive
Thats a weird government thing though, not some practical reality

I was watching some video clip and a pilot sees another plane miles away, then he goes "Well time to get out of here, airspace is getting crowded"

Absolutely delusional

why not just lift w8s

>>9192436

Right now, we theoretically have 1 billion years left before it gets to hot for life on earth. So unless we want to go extinct, we will have to do this anyways.

>>9192632
>we have 1 billion years left
kek, more like 100 years. Heard about ocean acidification?

>>9192379
reaching them is easier than getting to the moon, energy wise
the landing part is done by computers, so that one is easy too
and everything that cannot be automated is done by well trained and very experienced people who know what they're doing, so it'll be smooth sailing as well on that one

retards pretend that it's some unholy complex thing to land on a space rock larger than a football field when things like aircraft-to-aircraft fueling are similar, yet a lot fucking trickier, and is extremely common despite that

>>9192552
>>9192599
>>9192606
>samefagging this fucking hard
go back to leftypol and stop fucking up my space threads, you scat eating furshit loving degenerates

>>9192652
>go into space while we still have capitalism
>(Star Trek scenario already ruled out)
>meet first intelligent lifeform
>they naturally don't have barbaric notions such as private property or profit
>they look at us like you'd look at a disease
>Well, I guess we humans are left with no other options but to spread some democracy to them aliens!

What's the fucking point, even?

>>9192649
>retards pretend that it's some unholy complex thing to land on a space rock
No, I just think it's an utterly excessive effort of time and material just to dig up a small pile of dirt, ore or minerals. I mean, you can't realistically stop a cubic kilometer worth of material going 25 km/s, so your only choice is to hop onto it, pickaxe a few buckets of crap out of it and fly off again unless you want to end up on the other side of the solar system.

>>9192599
5-8 years

>>9192652
That's more than one person, retard.

>>9192666
I think you're being retarded on purpose

You don't need to stop the asteroid, if anything it would be in your best interests to not do so
You do not need to bring completely new equipment every time you want a bit of ore, it is left there and continuously extracts minerals for use
and there's thousands upon thousands of asteroids that do not fling off into the void, but instead stay quite close to the earth's orbit, where extraction would be very easy to do
http://www.asterank.com/
this wonderful website catalogs quite a few asteroids, and shows estimates of their value and potential profit based on that value as a bonus

There's a lot more to this sort of thing than you think, and the problems you believe exist aren't really there

>>9191322
Strapping on weights will only effect the muscles and bones. The movement of fluid in our bodies can't be adjusted by just simply strapping on weights.

>>9191291
Elon Musk is a hack, but he is right about Mars. We should first work on mining the moon. Set up mass drivers on Earth (maybe in Nebraska) to cheapen space travel. World's first trillionaires start popping up.

You fucking memed retard.

Life extension is the only thing that matters, especially for young people who got an actual chance of it working.

Now repeat it till you got it.

>>9193816
Movement of fluid in the body isnt a concern on the ISS, why would it be a concern on mars?

>>9191928
>Alt Right international

Asteroid mining >>> Landing on a meme wasteland planet

friendly reminder elon musk founded paypal the WORST COMPANY EVER

>>9194862
He didn't.

He founded a company that was bought by another company and that company became PayPal.

Him selling his company is what made him a millionaire.

>>9193949
Why not work on life extension and going to Mars to have an immortal group of people with their own planet.

If we can't die than we have an unlimited time to wait for Mars to terraform and become the way we want it.

>>9194892
Why not do that and live in an orbital habitat battleship
that one is better, safer, and more badass
could even mount guns on it, with guns on those guns

>>9191291
If getting to Mars is all that matters, then why do we need to go on to Titan?

>>9191311
Saw an article somewhere this morning about living in lava tubes for extra shielding. Probably Google can find it is anybody is interested.

>>9194978
Because we can
resources is also a good option, but is more secondary

>>9191344
Welcome to 4chan, newfriend!

>>9191494
Where throw away trash? You are sitting on a whole huge empty planet with no fucking ecosystem -- throw it anywhere you please. If aesthetics bother you, bury it.

>>9192263
>shit
>fertilizer

This is actually a useful resource if you are terraforming a planet- or even doing indoor agriculture.

>>9192298
Sorry, m80, no can do.

>>9194982
You missed my point. If there is something else that matters (and Mars is a step to getting there, than Mars is not all that matters.

>>9191291
>get to Mars
>die from neutrino radiation

>>9192297
Okay I'll bite. What's wrong with capitalism?

>>9195159
>responding to a over a day old blatant shitpost
come the fuck on man, don't ruin this thread with bullshit

>>9195159
>>9192297
Whenever you see something like
>not paying us our full work's worth
it's an actual communist who believes that labor is inalienable and that it's immoral/nonsensical to rent out your time. It makes even less sense than Richard Stallman.

Capitalism has high inequality to be sure, but that's the price you pay for homeless people being able to afford a smartphone. Way better than everyone starving as equals. Capitalism is actually the only way shit will ever get cheap enough for you and I to go to space.

>>9191291
He has too little facial hair for someone with german and french ancestry.

>>9191291
Except you'd need to live in a centrifuge. Otherwise, you'll have jello babies. It'd be better to just make one in space instead of on a planet.

>>9191307
More chads want to colonise mars than your high school crush, you volunteering is literally worthless.

>>9193987
It is. It permanently effects men's eyesight, yet somehow not women's

Well this thread made me wish for immediate human extinction.

>>9192263
> inevitably

Yes. But when you're only just colonising a planet and have limited industrial capacity, it makes more sense to focus that industrial capacity on increasing your industrial capacity. That way, later, it only takes a tiny fraction of your capacity to recycle the garbage you left behind earlier, while if you tried to recycle garbage immediately you would be spending a significant portion of your efforts, significantly slowing down your growth.

x'(t) = a x(t) - b
grows much slower than
{ x'(t) = a x(t) for t < 50 years; x'(t) =a x(t) - 2b for t >= 50 years }
if a is an economically reasonable number, between 1.02 and 1.2 .

>>9192292
>Mfw I've spent 1% of my life going aboot my normal business when it's as cold as the surface of mars outside

>>9191291
His master plan is not going to mars its making internet satelites.
The mars meme is just a gig to get funds.
>https://qz.com/885060/spacexs-leaked-finances-show-elon-musk-is-betting-big-on-satellite-internet/
how is this not common knowledge?

>>9195159
It's unfair and regressive. In capitalism people are forced to work entirely for profit at the sake of everything else. This isn't how Science is done right. Profit has no place in it, or anywhere else for the matter.

In a socialist system all the financial limitations on space exploration wouldn't exist as hoarding wealth (profit) wouldn't even factor in doing things.

>>9195589
As a communist I got really triggered when you started to say shit about Stallman. Please don't do that. The man might eat his boogers and particles from his feet on stage, but he's a saint, ok? Moving on.

>who believes that labor is inalienable and that it's immoral/nonsensical to rent out your time
Lot of things put together here. Labor would only be inalienable if people only did work for themselves. If you'd go into a chair manufacturing factory, made yourself a chair, ending your workday, that's inalienable. Trivially this is not the case. Humans are social animals and their economy reflects that.

It isn't "immoral" to rent out your time. Marxism has nothing to do with morality (but you could make a moral case, nevertheless). What is unjust (but perhaps, more importantly, has severe social effects) is a system where you have no choice but to sell and market yourself. It's not "nonsensical" either. What we consider common sense, however, is tied to the ever current state of things. Under feudalism you were a serf, and it made sense. Under capitalism you are a wage-slave, and it makes sense.

>Capitalism has high inequality to be sure
Let's put that in perspective. I'm not one of those fags, who'll praise the USSR, mind you, but it is a fact that under state socialism the highest to lowest earners ratio was around 6:1. Under capitalism there's no limit, you could work 1 hour and receive 10 bucks while your boss finishes a cocktail and earns a few million bucks. Again, this isn't about morals. Surely you can see how such a system has severe inbuilt defects.

>but that's the price you pay for homeless people being able to afford a smartphone.
le

>Way better than everyone starving as equals.
le

>Capitalism is actually the only way shit will ever get cheap enough for you and I to go to space.
"Cheap." Interesting. You need to realize that price-systems, economic values expressed in money, are but one possible way to run an economy.

>>9195589
>>not paying us our full work's worth
It is an undeniable fact that a capitalist's profit is in proportion with the wages he gives. If you made 10 cookies in an hour and your boss sold it for 10 bucks on the market and your hourly wage is 5 bucks that gives him 5 dollars profit. Currently, if you, the cookie makers unionize, demanding better working conditions (e.g. being allowed to take a shit once a day without being penalized) and a 1 dollar raise, your boss will get so triggered that he'll ship the whole manufacturing process to India, leaving your country with 100 more unemployed people.

SUCH A REASONABLE SYSTEM

>>9195159
I can highly recommend this book to all STEMfags: http://libgen.io/book/index.php?md5=8669FBC668B0A532771210D796B61B18

>>9196255
I see you haven't yet finished elementary school, if you really believe running a business is that fucking simple
go away underage

>>9196261
>muh boss' burden
I cry evertim ;_;

>>9196255
>your boss will get so triggered that he'll ship the whole manufacturing process to India
But how is that not a problem with globalization instead of capitalism?

>>9196481
Communists are not intelligent enough to make the distinction between the two

>>9196491

You are probably aware but just in case.

You do know that the intelligent and educated people in general are... left wing?

>>9196492
Left wing != communist

>>9196492
I hope you are aware that Education and intelligence are not one and the same as well as being aware that most wealthy and higher paid persons are in general right wing

why don't we leave the politics out of a space thread on /sci/
if you want politics, go shit up /pol/ with your commie nonsense instead of here

T MINUS 12 HOURS
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5V7R_se1Xc&ab_channel=SpaceX

>>9192540

>Not to mention the fact that humans have NEVER ONCE created a self-sustaining habitat that actually works. All attempts have been monumental failures

There basically no serious attempts to do this. There was Biosphere and it was run by a bunch of semi-amateurs and despite initial problems it kinda worked in the end and ended mostly for personal conflicts.

>>9196492

>You do know that the intelligent and educated people in general are... left wing?

They are liberals, welfare capitalists or possibly social democrats. Certainly not communists.

>>9192540
Isn't the earth itself a self sustaining habitat?
Would it not be it be possible to mimic the processes of earth to make a viable habitat on smaller scales because of that?
Our ability to recycle things is quite good, and would only improve when immense time and resources is dedicated to improving it

>>9196481
You do realize that the thing that is "globalized" is capitalism, or to be more precise, it's capitalism's inner logic that ended it up where it is right now? It's not some spooky man pulling the strings in the background, it's people acting in accordance with and within systemic structures.

>>9196499
>most wealthy and higher paid persons are in general right wing
Just a reminder that liberalism and conservatism have more in common(defense of private property, markets, etc.) than communism with either one of them. Liberalism today is literally a right wing ideology. Look up the fucking political compass with the US candidates on them if you don't believe me.

>why don't we leave the politics out of a space thread on /sci/
Because you won't get to Star Trek utopia with capitalism. It's not like this is fucking forced on this thread; it's ridiculously obvious to a lot of people.

>>9192278
Would they have to rotate at an insane speed to achieve g?

>>9192295
What about body fluids?

>>9191291
Just a pop-in visit or a sustained presence?

I'd be fine with this idea but we'd need a skyhook space station and lunar base first. then we can think about a long term Mars goal. To start though we need a viable power source which we currently don't have.
We need something safe, stable, reliable and compact. Without this, we don't have any business sending humans for long journeys into space.
The terrestrial energy plants look really promising but these are still 10 years away.

>>9196608
g = ω^2 r => ω = Sqrt[g/r]
g = v^2/r => v = Sqrt[gr]

Give me a radius for said ring.

>>9196585
Why would anyone want a Star Trek """utopia"""
it relies entirely on things impossible, and simple math shows that it cannot last without crumpling under it's own weight inevitably and reverting back to a non-utopian state
Either it's not actually even close to a utopia at all, and merely looks like one to those that don't care to pay attention, or magic has become commonplace and that is what runs society

1) you need lots of energy
2) you need cheap access to orbit
then living on mars is easy.

according to shotwell they are trying to get ahold of some nuclear material. Should be interesting.

>>9191291
You need to learn to punctuate first.
>*He's right you know = He's right you know.
>*Getting to Mars is all that matters, and once we get to Mars Titan is next. = Getting to Mars is all that matters, and once we get to Mars, Titan is next.
You're welcome.

>>9196241
What's the original source of that GIF?
I've been seeing it posted for years, but never the source.

>>9191296
>>9191302
>go to Mars
>starve to death because you forgot to pack any food

>>9196506
Time zones were a mistake.

>>9196506
>this video is unlisted, only those with the link can see it
Elon? is that you?

Who /actually hyped about colonizing mars/ here?

>>9196585

>You do realize that the thing that is "globalized" is capitalism

Because communism is oh so anti-globalist? If anything it has more toxic globalists than the other end of the political spectrum.

>Because you won't get to Star Trek utopia with capitalism. It's not like this is fucking forced on this thread; it's ridiculously obvious to a lot of people.

It is just one shitposter, namely you, who is forcing this empty ideological nonsense on the thread. /pol/ is that way >>>

Developing closed loop life support can be done even without leaving Earth and would be crucial for any space colonization, not just Mars. Why this was already not done I dont understand..

>go to Mars
>die of an autoimmune disease

>>9196869
I'm hyped for space in general, Mars is just a way of getting funding into the space industrialization industry

>>9196904
It was tried, but failed every time.

>>9196910
>tfw space will get as polluted as earth is

>>9196915
That's what the sun is for

>>9196911
sources?

>>9191593
>We'll bring the seeds for it and cultivate it in gardens and greenhouses in the domes. Easy.
wew lad

>>9196926
N-no. I have to correct myself actually. The two most extensive trials of closed ecological systems were

- the American Biosphere 2 from the early '90s which was as much publicity stunt as scientific experiment and ultimately failed both times because of planning errors, execution errors, unnecessary ambition and complexity and sheer human incompetence:
https://www.gwern.net/docs/1996-nelson.pdf

and

- the Russian BIOS-3 facility from the '70s or so which followed principles of simplicity and apparently faired relatively well in trials up to 180 days long, but was kept away from the public due to the Cold War, and I'm not sure to what extent its research was cleared afterwards, and English speaking information on it is scarce. This is the most extensive article I can find on it right now:
https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article-pdf/47/9/575/594737/47-9-575.pdf

I'm not aware of any other trials, of these dimensions anyway.

>>9196634
>Give me a radius for said ring.

Mars is a giant rotating object. In theory, if it were spinning fast enough you could carve a giant sloped ring at the pole and it'd have increased G forces in that area. Surely Mars doesn't spin fast enough. But is there any body in the solar system that has less than 1G but spins fast enough that you could find that "sweet spot" where it has a natural 1G due to centripital force?

>>9196971
At the planet's day length? For Mars that would be 1958790 km. I suspect you're not planning to build a ring of 12.3 million kilometers circumference.

>>9196869
Here.
Elon's vision is my vision too and it's part of why I'm studying aerospace engineering and want to work for SpaceX when I'm finished.

>>9197019
>working for spacex
countless people say it's a shithole
There's plenty of other businesses working on space and space accessories, all of which would be absolutely vital to the mission to colonize mars, either to supply it, build it, or supply resources for it, from mars itself or the moons and asteroids nearby

Is your vision to live and work on mars specifically, is it to industrialize and colonize the final frontier in general, or do you just want to work towards getting things operational to see both great crusades into the heavens begin

>>9197025
There's ULA and Blue Origin and others, but SpaceX is the one really paving the way forward.
I want to work on engineering rocket engines making advancements in that field. Like the new Raptor engines that run on methane instead of liquid oxygen and kerosene. I would love to be involved in the research and development of things like that. Things that directly related to advancing our ability to get to space.
I'm still in school so everything is still in the air at the moment, I'm just focusing on classes and not what company I'd like

>>9196249
I actually do love Stallman and I mostly agree with him on the topic of IP, but I disagree with him when he gets into moral absolutism in the same way I disagree with Rothbard when he says crazy things like "it's immoral to have a fractional reserve bank."

Thank you for your well-written response though, unlike this retard >>9196255. I'm an ancap who's in the process of reading through the communist canon.
>If you'd go into a chair manufacturing factory, made yourself a chair, ending your workday, that's inalienable.
No this is not. There's an explicit agreement that the employer keeps the chair, and you've agreed to this. If I pay you to assemble an Ikea chair which I bought, you do not own my chair. Even if I turn around and sell it for twice the price of the kit, I've not made you any worse off. I think this comes down to the issue of LTV.
I expect there are arguments against this, and I'd appreciate some good primary source references if you've got them.
You'll respond by saying that the worker has no negotiation power. One of the many ways you'd be wrong is it's not uncommon for workers to get together and buy out their employers.

>Surely you can see how such a system has severe inbuilt defects.
I don't. You see, I don't care about relative wealth. I only care about absolute spending power and capitalism maximizes this in numerous ways. I'd rather be poor in an unequal economy where an hour's labor buys 10 loaves of bread than be poor in a perfectly equal economy where an hour's labor only buys 1 loaf.
Capitalism puts way more "stuff people want" into the economy. More stuff means less rationing. Less rationing means lower prices for everyone. Eventually there will be enough "stuff" that it'll be cheap to go to space.

>are but one possible way to run an economy.
Even if you can optimize resource allocation centrally, there's no way to figure out the correct objective functions other than polling, which is strictly worse than price systems.

>>9197071
I'd recommend ancaps to read Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism by Lenin. It's short (around 60 pages if I recall correctly) and uses a lot of interesting economic data to prove that capitalism's "free market period" wasn't corrupted (by outside forces, the state, le jooz, etc.) into monopolization and financial control but reached it naturally, following its own inherent logic.

If you come to agree with its conclusions I think it poses a very serious counter-argument against most ancap hopes of what capitalism could potentially be.

(Oh, and you'll get an idea why WW1&2 was inevitable.)

>>9191296
>Astronauts don't have radiation shielding
>Astronauts don't exercise to prevent bone decay

also
>>9191310
>oxygen tanks

lol stupid nigger they can burst open and stop working retard

>>9192536
>using disgusting soft wings
>not using superior hard wings on ultralight aircraft

enjoy your wing collapsing before falling to your death

>>9191296
>Try to go to mars
>Can't because you can't jump that high

>>9196585
>star trek utopia
What is this child like bullshit?
I actually had to argue with small leftists during my college days, is this how retarded the new left is?

>>9192011
or we could entirely ignore climate change until its far too late to save our planet and when the food shortages come and war breaks out and the rich are trying to seal themselves from the atmosphere and the poor are trying to pay for oxygen and water then we will send refugees to mars by the thousands knowing fullwell that only 50 out of every random thousand will still be alive there after 5 years or so and we will continue doing this until either the mars habitats are more comfortable than earth habitats or earth has become more toxic than mars currently is in which case the rich will up and move to the colony and then wiggle their worms into power there.

>>9191296
>collapse under your own weight after a year...
Are you retarded

I don't see what the big deal is. The guy and others with him are motivated to succeed in something. Why are you so overly pessimistic and wanting to see someone fail? How bitter do you have to be?

Sure, I can think of a number of things that are more important for humanity to be doing, but there's a hell of a lot worse things they can be doing. Why can't we just be open minded and supportive towards other people and their visions?

Yeah, I see a lot of potential pitfalls, but hopefully the development of methods to overcome them will open new doors.

>>9191291
Elon Musk is a fraud who relies on government subsidies to keep his crappy car company afloat.

That being said, I think colonizing an asteroid is a more viable alternative, especially if its orbit could be altered to be closer to Earth, thus not making it a suicide mission which devolves into cannibalism.

Also, an asteroid colony would be more profitable, as valuable metals like platinum could be extracted far easier than they could be on Mars.

cant wait for his speech in 2 hours

he just posted this. mars is dead?

>>9197730

instagram.com/elonmusk

see the latest post

LIVE PRESENTATION STARTS NOW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5V7R_se1Xc

>>9197868

THE MUSIC

>>9197868
brehs, we should make a thread for this right? this one is gonna hit bump soon

>>9197893
>>9197728

>>9197896
>>9197896
>>9197896
>>9197896
>>9197896

>>9191291
Elon is gonna hold earth hostage with nukes from the safety of mars

>>9197918
that would most based move of all time

>>9197730
did you even watch his presentation dumbass?

>>9197730
You cannot go to mars without a moonbase, because without it, you have very little ability to get emergency supplies to the colony if shit hits the fan

>>9197918
He... He actually could do that with absolute impunity.

I guess he would actually need to acquire nukes first which wouldn't be easy. But nothing could intercept a rocket travelling full speed from Mars. And nothing could reach him to fuck him up.

>>9198547
You wouldn't need nukes at all
a chunk of metal traveling fast enough would outclass nukes for explosive force

>>9191600
> if you're bored, just jerk off or have sex.
>That's what they did in the old days.
that's what I do now

>>9198547
In order to build any significant infrastructure on Mars, or any other planet for that matter, you would need to do >>9198543 first. I see moon colonisation as a necessary first step towards exploring our galaxy both by providing a logistical base and a testing ground for new technologies.

Thus, whoever achieves sovereignty over the moon would become the literal gatekeeper of our galaxy. If a private individual/company (e.g. Musk) managed to do this, they could easily become a great power rivalling the Big Three, perhaps even becoming Carthage to Earth's Phoenicia.

>>9192663
What are you fucking gay?