/sci/ - Science & Math

So fucking what haha of course it's going to be expensive, the opportunity won't just be handed out to everybody straight away

>>8994560
Well let's see his points one by one

>But one of the biggest critics of Musk’s plan cites the subjects of ethics and humanity’s responsibility to take care of our planet before going to another and ruining that one, too.
That's what a professor who enjoys the smell of his own farts would say.

>fresno state u
ranked almost 400 nationally, can a professor teaching in that university be that good?

>“Until we evolve ethically, we ought not leave this planet and destroy another,” wrote Fiala. “The colonizing impulse is connected to the hubris that created climate catastrophe.”
This is all liberal bullshit. He's talking about his feelings as if they were the moral compass that all humans should have. Talk about hubris lmao

>“It seems especially unfair for rich people, who already burn more than their fair share of carbon, to head off the planet, leaving behind a ruined world inhabited by poor people with no hope of departure,” wrote Fiala.
So basically FUCK RICH PEOPLE AND FUCK WHITE PEOPLE. He's mad he can't afford it.

>The professor ultimately believes that Mars colonization may only be a luxury that few people can enjoy and that it is a violation of the principles of environmental justice.
Environmental justice? What the fuck is that?

Personally I think it won't be done any time soon because of costs, logistics and an overall lack of interest. But the whole arguments of this professor are basically like a kid throwing a tantrum.

this is just another communist professor bitching about musk to be recognized by Pravda readers.

He's right though.
There's no reason to allow people to pay $500,000 for a ticket, which is the equivalent of throwing money into the garbage.

There should be at least a 95% carbon tax on Mars tickets (the rocket uses a carbon-based fuel, after all) so that anyone that wants to go must pay $10,000,000, $9,500,000 of which goes towards reducing carbon emissions worldwide.

>>8994592
Ok. Start by enforcing the Paris Agreement on China. Fuckers sign it to appear hip and cool to liberal retards on the West but because there is no enforcing party they go back to their countries and increase emissions without giving a fuck. Gullible idiots piss me off so much.

>>8994560
>Is he right, /sci/?
Not really.
The fact we can't take care of our own planet only really allows one to say they are sceptical of us being able to terraform another one. It doesn't provide a barrier to doing it.

This professor has just spouted cliche talking points, this hardly blows the fuck out of "Musk's Mars Meme".
>"It seems especially unfair for rich people... to head off the planet, leaving behind a ruined world"
The idea that this is going to turn into some sort of HG Wells-esque class divide is laughable. A life threatening voyage to a desolate planet is hardly a privilege.

In terms of cost, India recently had a Mars mission that was relatively cheap, these price tags depend on the economy and human ingenuity, of which both are fluid.

>>8994576
>WHITE PEOPLE
He doesn't mention white people, stop playing the victim card.

>>8994596
>Fuckers sign it to appear hip and cool to liberal retards on the West
International diplomacy isn't a youtube comment section. China's behaviour will lead to a reduction in global emissions.

>>8994560
>not everyone can go so no one can go
That professor is retarded.

>>8994605
>A life threatening voyage to a desolate planet is hardly a privilege.
It is when on Earth every 1st world country is being overrun and replaced by religious fanatics.

>>8994618
China isn't obligated to do anything Paris related until 2030. Meanwhile they are still going to be burning as much coal as the rest of the world put together. Burning it in much smaller and older plants. which pollute more than a modern western coal plant. any solar/wind they are adding, is not replacing coal power it is in addition to the coal.

china also has horrible vehicle emission standards. lots of people still burning green wood and causing a lot of particulate emissions.

they are moving a lot of heavy industry to africa. where they are probably scheming to get western aid money to african nations. to develop their own industry in africa.

>>8994642
>they are moving a lot of heavy industry to africa. where they are probably scheming to get western aid money to african nations. to develop their own industry in africa.
The only reason why China is in favour of carbon credits (but not the only reason why carbon credits are retarded).

>>8994560

He is entirely right and only deluded fanboys and /pol/ will say otherwise.

The whole mars colonization (who thought using that word is remotely good idea?) is upper class romanticism mixed in with nice dose of neo-imperialism.

>>8994596
China already signed the Paris Agreement unlike redneckistan with its bright orange tinted leader.

>>8994678
As a PR move. They are under no obligation to do anything about their emissions, the Paris Agreement was either written in such a way to hamper the West, or was made by very naive people.

>>8994560
I don't really give a damn what he thinks. Scientists need to step aside and let the engineers actually get shit done. If Spacex can do 10% of what they've set out to do pure market forces will bring us the rest of the way.
>b-but my climate
The planet can suck my dick. I'm leaving this rock as soon as I can buy my ticket. All kinds of potential resources on Mars I'm not going to miss my chance to be the Rockefeller of the martian colony.

Today's CPUs are produced in facilities whose cost is well out of the reach of everyone except the very richest. Despite that, even some of the world's poorest in shitholes like Cambodia can afford access to this technology.

What I'm getting at is two-fold. Firstly, people without a hope in hell of affording to visit Mars will benefit from the technology that will require investing in, if only indirectly.

Secondly, the rich require the poor. The rich become rich by leveraging small amounts of value off large amounts of people. There will be a role for non-rich in any society of rich people, to do shit for the rich.

As an addendum to the second point, probably any society supported by the rich will have a majority non-rich population, just because of those support staff. We can automate a lot of things, but we'll still probably want humans doing stuff for or around us, if only for our own mental health.

>>8994678
hey dipshit, have you even read the paris agreement at all?
I'd bet 100 billion dollars you haven't

>>8994560
>the very first colony ships to another planet are expensive
>thus, we shouldn't consider colonizing another planet at all ever
someone shove this faggot out of a helicopter
no shit, things have have never been done before will be pricey, but naturally, as the technology improves, and there are more ships going back and forth, it will get cheaper, just like absolutely fucking everything else has in history
just more bullshit spouted by liberal arts fuckmuppets and their brain damaged cultists

>>8994576
Holy crap. I've never seen so many ad-hominems in a single post outside of /pol/. Ooooh...

>>8994560
>>Fiala believes humanity can’t leave Earth before solving the environmental problems here

So, we aren't "allowed" to leave the planet until all the whites are taxed to death to pay for free gibs, huh?

>>8994560
>Is he right, /sci/?
No

>Fiala believes humanity can’t leave Earth before solving the environmental problems here
Why does this bullshit keep popping up time and time again. It's a shit argument, and it will always be a shit argument.

The 2 aren't mutually exclusive. They are in fact complementary.
We want to save the planet to ensure the survival of our species,
We want to colonize space to ensure the survival of our species.

Colonizing space might actually help us here on Earth.
On Mars every resource is scarce and everything is hostile.
We'll have to create technologies that will help us survive there.
These technologies can be used to help us lower our footprint here on Earth and help people who live in hostile climates.


>“Until we evolve ethically, we ought not leave this planet and destroy another,” wrote Fiala. “The colonizing impulse is connected to the hubris that created climate catastrophe.”

No, our ever increasing demand for energy caused that.

>“It seems especially unfair for rich people, who already burn more than their fair share of carbon, to head off the planet, leaving behind a ruined world inhabited by poor people with no hope of departure,” wrote Fiala.
No actual rich people will go there for at least another 100 years. Not while they can make millions here on Earth.


>professor of philosophy
Why are todays philosophers so full of themselves while spouting so much shit?

I bet most of them couldn't even complete a real analysis course if they were given 10 years to do it.

>>8994653

>upper class romanticism mixed in with nice dose of neo-imperialism.

And that is what pushes humanity forward.

>>8995323
>until all the whites
>>8994576
>FUCK WHITE PEOPLE


what's with this victim card nonsense here?

>>8994653
>upper class romanticism mixed in with nice dose of neo-imperialism
I'm not a deluded fanboy or a /pol/ imbecile. I'm middle class and anti imperialist.
I'm a futurist and therefore believe this is a good idea.

>Fresno State University
>Professor of Philosophy

>>8994560
>we must fix A before we do B
>we must colonize the rest of the Earth before colonizing anything else
>us poor people don't have enough money, waaaa

Literally shit reasoning for anything at all. Like 8yo logic skills.

Do you know how Musk will be BTFO for Mars colonization? There's really only one reason.

JELLO BABIES
JELLO BABIES
JELLO BABIES

>>8995352
>The 2 aren't mutually exclusive. They are in fact complementary.
Spending money on Mars rockets is a waste of resources when there are still pressing climate change issues to be solved.

>>8995867
Spending money on Mars rockets is negligible compared to the global GPD.
With just 1 Billion dollars a year we'd be on Mars in 2 decades.

Besides, you can credit Musk for making electric vehicles attractive.

If you wanna blame anyone why not blame consumerism, billions of dollars spent on shit you don't need. Your wife spending 250 on a new pair of shoes she doesn't need.
Good chemists and pharmacists trying to create a new flavor of breakfast cereal that makes you want to binge eat the whole box making the world just a bit fatter and unhealthier instead of working on science.

There is all this pointless shit and you tell me this isn't a priority. go fuck yourself, get your own priorities straight first.

>>8995570
The long term effect from low gravity on the human body is literally the only good argument there is.

>>8995904
Those billions would be better spent building fields of solar panels and battery storage units.

Mars rockets also contribute to the problem by adding even more CO2 to the atmosphere.

>>8994560
Don't you just love it, when some leftard fuckface with """"progressive"""" written all over his face, wants to be the ball and chain to actual positive progress?

>>8995904
>Besides, you can credit Musk for making electric vehicles attractive.
Personal vehicles are a waste of energy, electric or not.
All transportation should move in the direction of large trains which require little energy to use and are safe. Musk is taking things in the wrong direction.

>>8995934
No true Scottsman.

>>8994560
>jews
>put the
>put the jews on mars

>>8995904
I already blame consumerism for the current state of the global economy.
People so obsessed with buying useless shit for cheap that it's become ingrained in their way of thought, as if they NEED to buy a computer every couple of years, even though theirs works just fine.

Anyways, let's not delude ourselves into thinking that private sector money has anything to do with public sector money. That billion dollars a year is either going to come out from a handful of very rich men, or from the autismbux of broke ass minorities.

>>8994560
>Can't leave earth until we solve all the problems here.

ell, we have finally found somebody whose ideas on colonizing Mars are even goofier than Mr. Musk's.

>>8996901
>as if they NEED to buy a computer every couple of years
you either wanted to say phone, or don't know that plebs regularly kept their PC's for over a decade, which led to ridiculously slow ass transition to 64bit consumer systems (which were a thing since motherfucking 2004, but only really caught on like 3 years ago) or you mean people who actually want to utilize new software, in which case you have an utterly fucked definition of "works just fine"

>>8996916
>tfw cpu cores are no longer increasing in speed nearly at all, like they were in the 1990s, just slap in more cores, more memory
>why? oh because new software is coded using editor programs that leave them sloppy and buggy and bloated resource hogs
>gotta have that extra core for processing the extra bloat

Ever since Y2K my OCD has been off the charts triggered by everything from shitty HTML to games that run exclusively on Java. Don't get me started on at hip new programming languages.

>>8995376
Professor Fiala on why the increasing number of Turks and Africans in Germany is always worthy of celebration, and whites can complain about migration the day they leave America back to its natives:

http://www.plannedscape.net/Fiala/nostalgia-poor-guide/

This is all a prequel to DOOM. Elon is going to send a bunch of important rich scientists to mars. Some where along the line he will change the company's to UAC. Revolutionize the energy business, blah blah, hell on Earth.

>>8994560
>The professor ultimately believes that Mars colonization may only be a luxury that few people can enjoy
That's the point, leave the trash and niggers behind. Or did he think we were gonna bring self-detonating muzzies to Mars so they can shit up another planet in the name of allah the cocksucker?

>>8997072
white genocider getting absolutely BTFO

Newsflash. Jews are terrified Whites will leave the planet before they can be fully "enriched." They are scared they won't be able to neutralize their ancient racial enemy before Whites find a workaround.

>enslave, torture, and kill other races for thousands of years
>get butthurt and try to escape the planet we decide to return the favor

Whites, everyone.

>>8997107

everyone was killing, enslaving, torturing each other

whites just did it best in the end, then did an about face for some reason and started letting everyone do what they want

>>8997095
Mars Congressional Republic when?

>>8994560
>only the very rich would colonize the Red Planet.
And the smartest 1% on Earth.

So stop being brainlets. Let's study harder to join the 1% Intellectual Elite. Work out your Noggin.

If You or our parents are not 1% richest Millionaires then that's not a problem.

We just need to make an effort to get a stellar academic curriculum then make effort to be in the Smartest 1%.

Fuck the Niggers, Chads, Normies & Brainlets left on Earth.

>>8994560
There's never been a clear line between eras. Technology doesn't set a social milestone for people as we like to think it does. If anything, this will be a step forward in the progress of earth because while people are off ruining mars, poor fags will take good care of the planet hehehehhh

>>8997213
you can't reason with these people. they think everyone is equal. that only the racist, facist, imperialist, mysogynist, and capitalist system keeps everyone poor and stupid.

And he can't stop people from doing it.

Hint: no one owns Mars, and if you have the ability to go there, you can go there.

>>8997263
>: no one owns Mars,
until there is a self sufficient martian colony. then someone on mars becomes the leader and declares Mars an independent nation.

>>8997258
ah yes of course. higher standards of living, higher education and so on is totally not related with the wealth of a nation. that's why african countries manage to have as many nobel prizes per capita as the nordic countries. if you're born poor it's your fault you don't die a billionaire ;)

>>8994560
Why should anyone care what a no name humanities professor at an ass tier State University has to say about Elon's mars plans? Or for that matter care about what he has to say on anything in general.

>>8994560 >>8997295 >>8997213

That Philosophy Professor at Shit tier University is just a Jealous Brainlet

A Jealous Philosophy Brainlet that will never be allowed in Elon Musk Crew and will die on Earth.

>>8997107

You're implying that they all weren't better off being uplifted.

Australian aboriginals and American negroes prefer to live off the government and modern trappings that going back to how they were.

>>8994560
>only rich people can afford interplanetary travel
Wow, quite the message this guy is sending.

>>8994980
you know this is a every board is some kind of /pol/ colony at this point

>>8994560
>>The professor ultimately believes that Mars colonization may only be a luxury that few people can enjoy
After Jamal had his fun with my wife and my kids we must pay his ticket to Mars?

>luxury
>mars

top kek

>>8997450>>8997343
Racial Diversity Quotas on Mars would be awful & Catastrophic.

>>8997092 >>8997213
Leave the trash, niggers & muslims behind

Imagine the Niggers & Muslims Rioting & Spreading Violence on Mars.
Destroying the Mars Base because a Random Nigger or Muslim Died on Earth.

Imagine on Mars Niggers & Muslims Cucking Whites, impregnating White Woman, making them Single Moms, & running away from their own Children

Imagine Niggers & Muslims multiplying at faster rate on Mars & Overpopulating it.

>>8997107 >>8997134 >>8997364

>>8996916
No, I really meant to say PC.
A while back I had a discussion with a german dude about that exact topic on /int/. It was then that I realized that the average person--not even the average consumerist--now have unrealistic expectations for the prices of goods, subsidized by the slave labor of inferior countries. Subsidized prices on these goods causes a certain amount of consumerism to be internalized by everybody, meaning that at their core, people either replace some of the most expensive devices in their homes every few years, or get the feeling that they should (regardless of their ability to pay). This leads to a cycle of waste which I'm sure you're familiar with.
When ordinary people are met with the realization that their way of thinking is actually consumerist in nature, you get genuine surprise and a strong unwillingness to let go of these prices.

I would always be willing to pay for devices at their actual value, made in their home countries for a fair wage and a cleaner output. It wouldn't eliminate consumerism, but the current abjectly immoral state of manufacturing certainly exacerbates the problems.

Literally who?

Obviously not everyone is going to be able to afford a ticket to mars, travel costs and housing are going to be expensive, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to reach mars. It's like flying, the first plane tickets might have been expensive but eventually it'll be affordable for a good amount of people.

Humanity doesn't have to focus on just one thing, who says we can't fix global warming and try to reach mars at the same time. Rocket scientists do their thing, environmental scientists do theirs.

>>8995938
Trains are already mostly clean (at least where I live), having cleaner cars is the right move to make since you can't force people to just ride trains instead, and personal vehicles are needed anyway. They have more flexibility and freedom than trains.

>>8997482
>Racial Diversity Quotas on Mars would be awful & Catastrophic.

Yes, but they will certainly happen. People will say "let's re-create the beautiful diversity of Earth :^)" and no-one will be able to say "Yeah, let's not, because fuck niggers".

>>8995570
>JELLO BABIES
>JELLO BABIES
>JELLO BABIES

This.

There's not enough gravity for proper growth of babies and children on Mars.

>>8994592
>which is the equivalent of throwing money into the garbage

No, it directly pays the salaries of thousands of people with skilled engineering and manufacturing jobs.

>>8997830
>There's not enough gravity for proper growth of babies and children on Mars.

Source?
No reduced gravity experiments have ever been done, we only know about 1G and zero G.

>philosophy

>>8994560
People keep shilling against him and he keeps succeeding. I used to doubt him in the past, but not anymore.

>>8994560
I think Musk is very much overestimating how much people would want to go there. You can go to space right now for 20 million which tens of thousands of people could afford and yet almost nobody does it. According to wikipedia there have been 7 space tourists all in all. Its going to be the same with Mars. They will have trouble finding people who actually want to go there.

He supports global warming
Such an idiot will sink soon

>>8997867
I'm sure there will be a curve for health in regard to 0g to 1g. The question is, "where's the tipping point for health?" Mars is 0.377g. Ergo, 37.7% of Earth gravity. Do you think that is below or above the tipping point on the health curve?

This is why we need centrifugal artificial gravity labs in space. I'm hoping the next space station will have a lab specifically for that purpose. Hell, just preventing VIIP will be a major advancement. All the micro-gravity experiments have shown to be disastrous for human health. Even if we find the tipping point for human health in regard to gravity, we will still need to find it for infant health. There's a chance they are different due to developmental needs.

Personally, I'd rather not hear about the "sad news" of the first Marian birth being miscarried, stillborn, or born deformed with bones that never quite stop being brittle as all fuck.

>>8997830
>steroids
>osteoprosis drugs
>exercise

why the fuck does everybody just assume everbody wants to go to mars. how many people have climbed mount everest or have gone to the mariana trench? pretty much nobody and that is because there is nothing really to do there. same goes for mars and thats why it will never be colonised.

>>8998144
>supports global warming

>>8998179
I'd do both of those things if they were not super expensive.

>>8994560
>humanity can’t leave Earth before solving the environmental problems here

Yep, just like how Europe had to solve their environmental problems back in the 1600's before colonizing North America

>>8998430
have fun with billions of people migrating from coasts to the inner land as well as from the south to the north.

>>8998114
>You can go to space right now for 20 million which tens of thousands of people could afford and yet almost nobody does it.
>They will have trouble finding people who actually want to go there.

For example Billionaires like Bill Gates or even Donald Trump certainly have enough money.

But they are not physically fit enough.

But Space is dangerous. NASA Space Shuttles exploded twice (Challenger & Columbia).

Even Elon Musk SpaceX rockets exploded several times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cvGGxTsQx0

>>8998187
>>8998144
Like he's in favor of it or just believes it is true?

>>8998570
If I had the money, I would do it in a heart beat, but only if there was a destination, not just some orbital shit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tourism#List_of_flown_space_tourists

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tourism#Lunar_space_tourism
>In February 2017, Elon Musk announced that substantial deposits from two individuals had been received by Space X for a Moon loop flight using a free return trajectory and that this could happen as soon as late 2018.[33] Musk said that the cost of the mission would be "comparable" to that of sending an astronaut to the International Space Station, about $70 million US dollars in 2017.[34]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_on_the_Moon#Companies

>>8994560

We need to purge philosophy from this board. It isn't science it's bullshit

>>8994625
Alright buddy! I'm SURE that is just as dangerous as travelling through space on what is basically a giant bomb.

He thinks that efforts to reduce carbon will prevent global warming, but that is a big mistake
It worsens global warming
Cuz phytoplankton will interfere with the global warming of the earth using carbon dioxide and methane

USGS already returned the palm of the hand

The only correct thing is the phytoplankton global cooling theory

>>8998612
It's putting your life into your own hands, rather than the hands of politicians who don't care about you.

>>8994698
Oh look another conspiratard.

>>8997072
You've intentionally misrepresented the article there so you can play the victim card

>>8997482

>>8997450
>>8997092
>>8997364
Think you're on the wrong board anon(s), /pol/ is that-a-way

>>8994560
>The professor ultimately believes that Mars colonization may only be a luxury that few people can enjoy
And?

>>8997092
Space travel is haram
they'd need to remove some of their religious restrictions to allow a devout muslim into space

>>8999170
He is correct. Read it yourself:

http://unfccc.int/paris_agreement/items/9485.php

It is nothing more than virtue signalling and hand tying. I rather that wasn't true, I think something needs to be done, as course of action for the environment (not because of scare terms like "global warming"), but it needs to be correct and that agreement just isn't it by a long long shot.

>>8998170
We are talking about fetuses and infants, not 20-30 year olds.

>>8994560
Those criticisms all sound like features to me

>>8994653
>Human progress must be held back forever because of muh equality

>>8999560
muh equality
everyone deserves to go to mars whether they contributed anything for it or not you fucking NAZI

>>8994560
>Fiala believes humanity can’t leave Earth before solving the environmental problems here
This is the dumbest shit ever. It's the whole-species equivalent of saying you can't walk and chew bubblegum at the same time, and it's a grave insult to our collective capacities.

And aside from that, it's literally impossible to have all humans or even all scientists and engineers working on the same problem. Most of the people currently working at places like NASA and SpaceX probably have little interest or education in climate science and aren't suited for that kind of work at all and it'd be a tragic waste of talent to shoehorn them into environmental work.

It's so stupid. People working in the space industry are the only sciencey types that have to deal with this line of thought.

>>8999438

>>8997343
never understood the point of this meme

>>9000245
What a well reasoned argument, you've really convinced me there

I have no problem with disagreeing opinions, what I do have is a problem with intellectual dishonesty (through misrepresentation) and shitposting, and that's what most of the pol leakage is, so please go back to pol and/or commit suicide

>>8994560
the future survival of the human race does not lie in colonizing Mars
or in colonizing any other planets

A planetary system is the most inefficient way to support life
you are literally only living on the surface of the planet
510.1 million km squared
the earth's Volume is about 1.08 trillion cubic km

you are literally only using 0.00047231 % of the planet

your sun is 1.989 x 1030 kilograms worth of hydrogen
do you know how much fuel that is
and the energy created by the sun
An estimated 173,000 terawatts of solar energy hits the earth
think of how much is just drained into space

Now imagine mining the entire solar system to create a fleet of starships
but we'd need to fuel that fleet
the best source of power is the sun
but the sun is a yellow star it's burning through it's fuel
fairly quickly by intergalactic standards
But our solar system has Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, and Uranus
if we were to siphon our sun into 5 equal sized Dwarf stars
they'd burn a lot longer than our sun will
and they might even be small enough to build a dyson sphere and starship around
especially if we can develop gravitic technology and gravitic engines
by the time we finish mining the solar system

after all if we want to survive the heat death of the Galaxy
we can't be living on planets or we'll die along with our mother star
but to survive
we must evolve and most especially we must evolve past the childish
and outdated notion of equality, not everyone is biologically suited for space travel
most of the human race and the ecosystem we evolved from will have to die
space travel can't afford genetic weakness and diseases
Obesity, allergies, mental illness, genetic diseases, and those who suffer from them
will never survive the first chapter of the true race to space

As well as most of the animals that live on earth.
They will also die in the glorious Mass Extinction to the stars
Their Genetic information will be preserved, as part of the greatest genetic library.

>>9000274
>What a well reasoned argument
"ur lyin about what he said" isn't a well reasoned argument in the first place

The guy's a fag who jerks off over whites going extinct, fuck him

yes, humans are fragile pieces of shit, we can barely exist in antarctica or underwater without a fuckton of machinery

>>9000472
The article poster was lying about what the article writer had said, and pointing that out was invaluable to show the article posters intellectual dishonesty , and it debunked the article posters claim, which is all an augment needs to do

And, Where's your evidence that he's a "fag who jerks off to whited going extinct"? Don't tell me this is just another unfounded, unqualified /pol/ack claim used so you can play the victim card once again

>>9000466
Please, tell me how do you plan to manipulate our star

>>8994592
>There should be at least a 95% carbon tax on Mars tickets (the rocket uses a carbon-based fuel, after all) so that anyone that wants to go must pay $10,000,000, $9,500,000 of which goes towards reducing carbon emissions worldwide.
What the fuck did I just read?

>>8994756
You owe me 100 billion dollars
Like I'm ever gonna see it though

>>8999607
Lol at China ratifying the Paris Agreement:

http://unfccc.int/paris_agreement/items/9444.php

China: the Government of the People’s Republic of China decides that the Agreement applies to the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region and the Macao Special Administrative Region of the People’s Republic of China.

Hong Kong and Macau hahaha.

>>8994592
>carbon tax on Mars tickets (the rocket uses a carbon-based fuel,
No they don't. Rocket fuel is peroxide and oxygen

>>9001354
quiet you, the propaganda wont work if you say facts

>>9001354
Peroxides are carbon-based.

inb4 Cowboy Bebop accurately predicted the future of Mars

>>9001755
The sooner Jazzy Film Noir Martian Manhattan becomes real the better

I'm just going to leave this here for all of you dumbcunts.

https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/10/why-not-space/

>>8994560
>Fresno State University
>Professor of Philosophy
Need I say more?

>>9001242
we would need gravitic technology first
but we'd simply siphon off hydrogen to the other gas giants
after mining out any rocky cores, and any elements heavier than helium

the absolute smallest we could stellar-form the sun into dwarf stars
would be twice the size of jupiter by mass
they'd burn for billions of years each, and provide all the energy we'd ever need
more than long enough till we can mine the entire galaxy.

>>9001925
>Retards on the internet
>Believe Elon Musk's dumb ass lies
Need I say more?

>>8994560
Someone please explain to me without resorting to empty buzzwords like "muh progress" what the point is to have a colony on mars.

>>9001925
>>9001996
Yes.

>>9001998
Mars is rich in Iron Ore. The Iron Ions make the Mars surface red.
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ore_resources_on_Mars

There may also be other precious metals like Silver, Gold, Platinum under Mars surface.

Such amount of Iron could be used to build even larger Space Ships, Facilities & Machines to further expansion to other stars.

However Mining Asteroids might be more cheaper, because Asteroids Metals are not so oxidized.

>>9002012
Mining asteroids WOULD be cheaper… eventually. The problem is that compared to doing the same on Mars, the startup costs would be considerably higher for a few reasons:

– Near-zero-g environment means we'd need to develop new manufacturing processes that don't rely on gravity (for instance, shavings and dirt don't stay on the floor here – they fly into the lungs of your workers and into the workings of your machinery!)
– Near-zero-g environment has severe negative physiological effects on humans. Could be bypassed by automation, but let's be honest, automation to that extent won't happen for another 50 years minimum.
– No readily available fuel source. Mars has plenty of atmosphere and frozen water to pull water from. Even the richest of asteroids only has one of those two.
– The large surface and more temperate environment of Mars make it much more simple to have a reliable "plan B"/backup facilities.

>>9002032
Given these factors I think it may be a better plan to establish minimal/moderate manufacturing capabilities on Mars and use that to bootstrap large-scale operations in the asteroid belt.

>>9002012
This makes sense, thanks
How long do you think it will take for us to be able to mine for resources on mars on a large scale?

>>9002008
0.38 of Earth's gravity. Also more money than literally the entire world economy to mount a serious colonization effort. Capitalism literally can't colonize other planets.

>B-but muh asteroids! Muh platinum!
You're not going to mine asteroids either for the same exact reason.

>>9002043
>0.38 of Earth's gravity.
Humans can survive over a year in zero g and still be relatively healthy. A little under half of Earth's gravity just might be enough to prevent any serious issues, but we won't know until we try.

>Also more money than literally the entire world economy to mount a serious colonization effort.
A gross underestimate to say the least. The vast majority of the costs involved are tied up in just getting there, and those costs are beginning to fall dramatically. Get that cost out of the way and seeding a colonization effort would cost maybe as much as one the idiotic wars we fight back here on Earth while giving back more than that war ever could have.

>>8994560

>>9002061
*overestimate

>>9002043
>Muh platinum!

A huge amount of platinum could be profitable/lucrative & payback the entire mission.

The platinum from a 30-meter-long (98 ft) asteroid could be worth US$25–50 billion
>from Reuters, www.reuters.com/article/us-space-asteroid-mining-idUSBRE83N06U20120424
A small 10-meter S-type asteroid contains about 650,000 kg (1,433,000 lb) of metal with 50 kg (110 lb) in the form of rare metals like platinum and gold.
>from www.astronomysource.com/tag/m-type-asteroids

>>9002073
It's not quite that cut and dry… flooding the market with that much platinum would tank prices, BUT having that much on hand means that we could use it in places where it's well suited but previously infeasible due to low availability. You'd see an initial crash in prices, but then a slow climb back up.

>>8994560
>Fiala believes humanity can’t leave Earth before solving the environmental problems here
<- Literally this.

Seriously - do people think all the science is being done by one guy in a basement, so thus we can only work on one problem at a time or something? If 14 billion hands isn't enough to multi-task, how many do we need?

And even pie-in-the-sky fantasy Musk isn't talking about moving huge swaths of the population to Mars. If we ever colonize that ball into something self sustaining, most of the population is going to be born there.

And complaining about astronaut elitism... Fuck.

I don't want to go to Mars myself, but some people make it real tempting.

>>9002081 >>9002073

For example Platinum is very useful to make Catalysts for Chemical Industry.

Source 1: Periodic Videos
http://youtu.be/byzaoji_9kk
http://youtu.be/Fg2WzCzKpYU

Source 2: Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platinum#Catalyst

Source

>>9002061
>Humans can survive over a year in zero g and still be relatively healthy.
This is a lie. Low gravity severely affects your health. Also, there's no "going back" from Mars. Unless you plan on building some sort of interplanetary ferry system with artificial gravity that's constantly running (something no amount of government or private contracting could support).

>and those costs are beginning to fall dramatically
Oh boy it's the "everything gets cheaper" meme. You're going to be seriously disappointed. Quadrillions of dollars in infrastructure isn't going to be translating to hundreds of millions any fucking time soon.

>Get that cost out of the way
Yeah and if we ignore gravity entirely we can strap fairy wings to our backs and just flutter there. Anything's possible if you exclude reality.

>>9002073
>A huge amount of platinum could be profitable
Sure it would. Tell me again why everyone on Earth doesn't have their own mine? I mean there's a tremendous amount of mineral wealth just right under our feet!

All you keep repeating is "The platinum is there." Congratulations. Now what? Just because it's there doesn't mean you can get it.

>>9002092
That image is more devastating than you or its author realize. The fact is humans AREN'T going to colonize other worlds because you'll fucking destroy yourselves. You can't even solve fucking artificial problems like poverty - literally artificial scarcity, a problem you MADE THE FUCK UP, which kills millions of people and turns billions of people's lives to pure shit.

>>9002096
The point is that MINING platinum on SPACE could be *MORE PROFITABLE* THAN mining on EARTH.

>>9002096
Well quite certainly nothing will happen if we don't try. What's wrong with letting people who have that interest and skillset give it a shot? If they can find someone to fund their endeavors, what's the issue?

If they can't find funding, well that's another matter, but from the sound if it you'd be happier if all humanity just sat here on Earth with our thumbs up our asses.

>>9002102
Yes moron, but you'll never be able to afford to construct the infrastructure TO mine asteroids. That's the point.

>>9002104
>Well quite certainly nothing will happen if we don't try
Go jump off a cliff thinking that. Soon.

>>9002104
And I'd be happier if you stopped fucking up THIS planet.

>>9002111
We can do both at once, and in fact the vast majority of the time the folks who are into space travel are also huge environmentalists. There's no conflict here.

You're not doing anybody a favor by shoehorning people in the space industry into other lines of work. They're a tiny, tiny portion of the population, accounting to a few thousand people tops. Let them do what they're good at. We have 7.5 billion other humans for everything else.

>>9002096
Please... We crossed the ocean and colonized the new world (not to mention went to the moon) without solving any of those problems.

If you're going to wait until we've achieved utopia and heaven on Earth before we do anything, you're going to be waiting until the heat death of the freaking universe - and the sun's gonna fry us well before then, regardless of what we do here, nevermind the host of other things that can go wrong at any moment, many without warning.

Though I don't like the space mining meme myself, not because it won't work, but because it eventually will, and work too well, and the end result will be that the market for whatever material you bought back in unprecedented quantities will crash. There's a reason most of those Spaniards who brought back all that Aztec gold died in destitution.

>>9002120
>We can do both at once
NO you can't. You are not going to colonize Mars. The logistics simply won't allow. I'm sorry you and most of your species are too stupid to grasp this.

>>9002130
>But muh sailing ships
Read: >>9001918

Fucking read it.

>>9002110
tfw You study STEM keeping High GPA hoping to join SpaceX, NASA etc.

While some dumb philosopher lead a horde of LIBTARDS TRYING TO STOP SPACE EXPLORATION & RUIN EVERYTHING.
>>8994560

>>9002139
>Hurr durr libtards HURRR
>Literally can't come to terms with physical reality

>>9002139
>he fell for the spacex meme
enjoy working voluntary overtime for a useless project that just gives elon profit

>>9002134
Those two posts have nothing to do with one another.

But to the point the second post is addressing, we've already sent literally tons of shit over there, thousands more throughout the solar system, and have over a million tons of shit in orbit, all growing at exponential rates. Barring a dark age, shit's gonna happen.

Plus the article is shit anyways "Earth is going to boil in 400 years due to growing energy usage"... Self proclaimed math boy sure does love his extrapolation fantasies.

>>9002139
>college dropout
>have great paycheck developing software
>zero chance at working at NASA or SpaceX
>tfw

>>9002160
Filthy /g/ Code Monkey

>>9002111
Even if we all offed ourselves today, this planet is doomed anyways. The clock is ticking, and we're the only species that has shown any propensity towards awareness of the fact, as well as any potential capacity to carry the story of life beyond the boundaries of the inevitably doomed biosphere to create others where it may continue.

...then we'll have a couple of trillion years to work out that whole heat death of the universe thing.

We maybe life's worst enemy, but we're also its only hope - such is the irony of our existence.

>>9002168
If being a codemonkey pays north of $160k/year and I can do that instead of flipping burgers, you bet your ass I'm gonna be a codemonkey

>>9002153
There are also several other companies
ARCASPACE
Armadillo Aerospace
Astrobotic Technology
Beal Aerospace
Blue Origin
Commercial Spaceflight Federation
Copenhagen Suborbitals
Effect of spaceflight on the human body
Garvey Spacecraft[93]
Health threat from cosmic rays
Heinlein Prize for Advances in Space Commercialization
Human spaceflight
Inspiration Mars Foundation
L5 Society
Mars One
Masten Space Systems
Orbital Sciences Corporation
OTRAG
Planetary Resources
PlanetSpace
Rocketplane Kistler
RocketShip Tours
Rotary Rocket
Shackleton Energy Company
Space Adventures
Space Frontier Foundation
Space medicine
SpaceX
Starchaser Industries
Virgin Galactic
X Prize Foundation
XCOR Aerospace
Interorbital Systems

>>9002173 >>9002160
>t. Code Monkey drop out
Then you hit 40 years old unemployed with outdated programming skills

>>9002219
Maybe if you never get bumped up to management, get too comfortable, and coast on the skills you have like an idiot. Anybody who's planning on staying in the industry dedicates a chunk of his free time outside of work keeping up with the software universe and staying relevant.

Really though, most programmers here follow the track of Developer -> Senior Developer/Tech Lead -> Product Manager -> higher management (CTO, etc). Those who keep writing code throughout the latter halves of their careers are somewhat rare.

>>9002219
>>9002238
>tfw when 44 and still coding

>>9002173
>If being a codemonkey pays north of $160k/year
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA.... haha... *cough*... *cries*

I do strongly suggest you switch to a field that can't be so easily outsourced, while you're still young. I'm head of my department, and don't make near that, but half the people under me are overseas and make less than a quarter of what I do.

>>9002258
>I do strongly suggest you switch to a field that can't be so easily outsourced, while you're still young.
Trust me, this is something I'm quite aware of. The key is to follow the tide of languages/stacks that have significant barriers to entry and aren't easily outsourced. For the moment, one such stack is Swift/Obj-C/iOS. Having to properly understand memory management and have a deep knowledge of the toolkit makes it harder to master (compared to, say, Java or Python) PLUS you've got the costs of needing a Mac. On top of all of that, iOS users expect high quality apps so for now, iOS dev is rarely outsourced. Android on the other hand is outsource heaven… very few companies hire locally for that.

As long as you have a feel for the winds and can respond when they even hint at changing, you'll be fine. Just don't sit still.

That said, I've always wanted more hard skills. If I can swing it I want to take some online courses on embedded programming and EE.

>“It seems especially unfair for rich people, who already burn more than their fair share of carbon, to head off the planet, leaving behind a ruined world inhabited by poor people with no hope of departure,” wrote Fiala.
he has a point here, but I think it will be quite cheap at some point

>>9002277
I think the notion is at least slightly mistaken. Not all rich people burn crazy amounts of carbon, and anybody who opts to buy the cheapest chinashit at Walmart instead of paying a little more for a responsibly manufactured alternative is at fault just as much and the rich folks, because you know how products become that cheap? Companies move overseas where they can cut overhead and increase margins as much as possible at the cost of the environment.

In fact, if anything wealthy people are well poised to make their entire lives carbon-neutral, should they choose to. That's not a choice for a huge swatch of the population and everybody in between largely doesn't give two shits and would rather save money.

>>8994560
Same old boring debate. Do we allow ourselves to leave and mindlessly ravage everything we find in the same way we have Earth, or do we change ourselves first and risk extinction as a better outcome in the case of failure. (Second chances being almost guaranteed to yield the same outcomes as the first go-round)

The real thing no one is willing to talk about is the fact that any living thing out in open space for that long would be too brain damaged to be remotely useful upon arrival. Cosmic rays, nuclei traveling near c pelting holes in the brain, etc. Our nervous system is designed for compactness and efficiency, not repair. Especially not repair of a type of damage we've not evolved around. Say nothing of the soil being toxic perchlorates.

Von Neumann was correct I'd say. The only viable means of colonization, and advancement in general, is mastering self-replicating programmable machinery. Like our own cells, but more specialized and more durable.

It's all to swindle investors and generate public hype for space research.

>>9002296 >>9002102 >>9002095 >>9002073 >>9002012

If space is dangerous for humans why don't we juts use robots to mine Mars, Asteroids etc

Obviously, if we can't even stop fucking over our own planet there is no way we can make another planet liveable

>>9002277
We seem to be ok with it. All I ever hear boomers say is to work harder and pull myself by my boot straps. At this point I hope humanity is completely wiped out before we spread to Mars. Hopefully ISIS shoots down the colonization rockets.

>>9002364
Use of wireless devices is already in the process of purging us, and eliminating the capacity to produce viable offspring.

Right now we're seeing the crazy that comes before the early onset dementia.

>>9002451
I will link to a post I made elsewhere.
>>>/g/61127371

And:
>>>/g/61128812

And copy one that followed.
>Yeah, skin and bone does reflect and absorb.
You did not respond, again. Of course some minimal scattering and heating occurs. Just at trivial levels, which is again, why you have yet to experience a problem using your cell phone with your head occluding line of sight to a distant tower.

>sodium channel activation
Very likely primarily calcium channel, but possibly other ion channels are involved as well. Playing a lesser role.

>You told me shit.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780531/
Follow the citations.

http://www.justproveit.net/sites/default/files/prove-it/files/military_radiowave.pdf
Navy studies and aggregated bibliography of existing literature up to a certain point in time. An interesting side note, Russia worked on similar things at the time and there was a lot of literature published in Russian as well, though they focused on thermal vs subthermal more. For a period of some number of months, they directed various frequencies at the US embassy, and they became quite sick. The frequency ranges used, to my knowledge, are not publically known, but they were probably testing certain activity windows they'd identified.

http://www.bioinitiative.org/table-of-contents/
All of this. Names of researchers, and citations, are provided.

>>9002065
What????

>>9002327
Why do we not just pull an Asteroid to collide with Africa. So most of Earth poverty problems would be solved.

>>9002130
>we went to the moon
When will this meme end

>>8994560
Of course only the richest few will be able to go. That's how new products and services work.

Step 1: New thing is released on the market at a ludicrous price.
Step 2: Super rich people buy it.
Step 3: Since there's proven demand, more companies produce new thing.
Step 4: Price is lowered because of supply/demand.
Step 5: repeat steps 3-4 until it's literally impossible to make a cheaper version with current technology.
Step 6: When it arrives, use new tech to restart from steps 3-4.

At the "end" of the cycle, the product is insanely cheap and of high quality compared to the first model. Think of TVs. The first flat screens were a few thousand dollars a piece and weren't THAT great. But after a decade of competition and market action, you can buy 5 modern TVs for the same price as one old model.

The professor is obviously not trained in economics, tell him to stop succumbing to the Dunning Kruger effect.

>>9002555
>something that takes an enormous amount of resources like a trip to mars
>ever going to be cheap

I can tell you aren't trained in economics either

>>8994576
It's funny that each of his points sound like a video game/tv show premise

>>9001918
>REE STOP TRYING TO ACHIEVE THINGS
>just sit in your cuckshed on earth and do nothing
>exploration? prestige? nobody needs that, just shove your thumb in your ass and do nothing
who ever takes that article as scripture should be shot

>>9002065
>nasa training course
SHITPOSTIN'

>>9002187
which one of those has space mining and industry as their goal

>>9003669
>who ever takes that article as scripture should be shot
No need, nature will take its course when they inflate to 800lbs and merge with their couches from doing nothing

>>9002187
half of those are bankrupt

>>8994560

>>8994560
nobody is ever going to mars

>>9003692
afraid not friendo, as our glorious medical system will ensure they survive and remain as parasites forever

>>8994560
Oh noes, Mars won't be multicultural, because it's too expensive for oppressed negroes.
Therefore it's impossible.

>>8994560
He isn't wrong.

Space travel for humans is fucking pointless right now. Until we figure out better tech for getting us and our needed resources off Earth and moved from one point in space to another in close to the speed of light (or faster???), it's a waste of fucking money. We keep on making small leaps forward along a path that is clearly never going to achieve that end goal and each small leap is costing billions of dollars. It's a dead end industry right now.

>>8995570
wondered how'd long it take for Jelly posters to start

>>9002327 >>9002073 >>9002095
Let's mine in Space.
It can be profitable

>Life Noggin's Youtuber agrees
https://youtu.be/lT11_2h6_LY

>>8994560
>Fiala believes humanity can’t leave Earth before solving the environmental problems here

That has nothing to do with space colonization, we can do both or use one to solve the other, or fuck it, the only reason people cares about the environment is because it might end up doing a backswing at the whole planet, not because "protection the environment is inherently ethical"

>That led Fiala to discuss another important aspect of Musk’s colonization plans: the cost. Fiala and many other experts believe that probably only the upper class of society will have the opportunity to visit –or colonize- the Red Planet.

And? I'm trying to see the problem here, where is it? Is colonization a human endeavour about the survival of the whole species or a theme park for all kids of all ages?

>The professor ultimately believes that Mars colonization may only be a luxury that few people can enjoy

Its a neccesity, but a necesity of the whole species, the group of individuals that achieve a stable flux of people in another people is inconsequential.

Do you imagine people in England or Spain saying; why colonize this new continent if we haven't solve our problems here first?

No rich people would want to go there! It's a population valve for the poor and criminals that 1% don't wan't around!

Thats how retarded these kind of things sound.

But who cares? Complaining here will be inconsequential too, this is just a huge closed hugbox.

>>9002564

If it goes into scale... yes.

How would it go into scale? Thats an easy one, logistics; some propellant depots here, the ISS reconverted into a maintenance station, orbital space assembly of modular ships, some lagrange depots... and before you have realized space would have been filled with humans, and once you are in space you are ready to go anywhere.

Every night for the past few years, I've gone to bed anxious over the idea that Whites may escape this planet before they get their comeuppance. We were chosen by god to inherit the stars, not you, you genocidal pond scum. We are this fucking close to circumcising your genetic future, and we will do whatever it takes to finish the job.

>>8994560
>some people disagree with Musks ideas
>MUSK BTFO

>>9004531
>Musk's ideas are untenable in an open forum
>"b-but the plebs agree therefore he's right!"

>>9004534

>Space colonization and human salvation through space expansion is Musk idea.

You are one of those peoples that buys Mac because Jobs was SO original... right?

>>9004534
Sure you can disgaree with it, you should just remember that you don't matter to those giants and nobody gets BTFO just because your tiny brain can't comprehend what they do :^)

>>8994560
Yes, but the conclusions are bullshit. So what if only the rich and gifted leave Earth? It's no one's duty to drag along the dregs wherever one goes. And it's not as if the poor and dumb are innocent regarding the degradation of our environment; rather to the contrary. It's hard to argue that anybody "deserves" to take part in space exploration, and it's even harder to justify it for the unfortunate.

>>9004550
Appeal to authority.
Boring.

>>9004559
Appeal to ignorance.
Typical.

>>9004562
>Appeal to ignorance.
What?

>>9004565
ask your mom for a dictionary kid

>

What the fuck?

This is about putting people on Mars not some sort of disney film.

>>8994560
>Fiala believes humanity can’t leave Earth before solving the environmental problems here

What is this shit? doesn't even make any sense

There is no reason we can't go to mars just because earth isn't perfect. This isn't even an argument it's just some bullshit excuse for people who are for some reason against going to mars.

>>9004854
I think they (who your replying to) mean its the crowded barrel of crab metaphor- the others will always drag in the one trying to escape the barrel

Basically people want to bring us/drag us down

>>9004534
seems like anti-plebeian elitism to me

>>8994574
Came here to say this

Do they think dirt poor farmers were the ones who explored and settled new frontiers in the past?

>>9005345
Well, in some cases, yes, literally. (The US literally paying failing farmers to go out west of the mississippi and set up shop.)

But yeah, when it came to crossing the Atlantic, those ships were expensive, some of the expeditions being enough to bankrupt nations, and while the sailors came from all sorts of backgrounds, the officers were pretty much invariably high end aristocrats.

The first guys to Mars aren't likely to be aristocrats though - they'll be well to do, as they'll need some university level training, but not likely one-percenters, as there's only so many folks with both the training and the physical fortitude to do that sorta job. Neil Armstrong wasn't exactly Henry Ford. When it comes to the first colonists, it's still probably going to be more about physical fitness and skillset than about cash.

Should Mars become self sustaining, or near to, it's going to be its own economy, meaning, generations later, the folks there will likely have the same range of super rich and super poor we have here.

Not that it should fucking matter... You know the SJW's true agenda when they'd rather have species wide extinction than see the descendents of the rich end up as the last of humanity. ....I suppose there was an old Twilightzone episode that carried that out to its extreme.

>>8994560
No shit, anyone who legitimately believes humans will ever be a space civilization is a fucking brainlet. Unless we ever hit the singularity (at which point we won't even be humans anymore) we aren't gonna ever leaving the Earth.

>>9005816
return to the cuckshed where you belong

>>8995938
>All transportation should move in the direction of large trains which require little energy to use and are safe
Then you yourself ride those fucking trains. And speak for yourself as well. If that little imaginary world in the brain of yours (assuming it's there) looks all that attractive and neat that doesn't mean other people will find it that way. Jesus, you sound like a teenager who lacks the basic sense of empathy and is not able to perceive the idea that as people are very different, so is their opinion.

>>8996901
>I already blame consumerism for the current state of the global economy
What if I say that consumerism is exactly what drives the progress? Think about it: A company makes a phone, spends a ton of money on engineers to come up with the blueprints, spends a ton of money on a production line to make the phone physical, and spends a ton of money on advertisement so that ordinary people like you could notice it and buy. After you buy it, your money goes to that company. What do they do with that after it gets there? They are starting to make another phone, V2.0, faster, more reliable, more agile and flexible so that people could utilize it more efficiently. Ergo, the more the company gets money, the more it is able to spend on innovations which means that the greater the consumerism, the faster the innovation.

But of course if you think that what Uncle Marx wrote in his "Manifesto" applicable to our world, then I have bad news for you and an advice: try to read at least once a week an article or two about how the economy and capitalism works and exactly what drives both the demand and the surplus.

>>9002258
>I do strongly suggest you switch to a field that can't be so easily outsourced, while you're still young. I'm head of my department, and don't make near that
That's because the kids right out of college making $150k+ right out of college aren't "code monkeys" and they are actually way smarter than you

kys

>>9006203
Perhaps, but they also weren't foolish enough to major in CS.

>>8994560
he should execute Dr. Zubrins Mars Direct plan, with current technology it would be an awesome thing. This would be the optimal thing to do as far as i understand.

>>9002564

>something that takes an enormous amount of resources like a trip to mars
>ever going to be cheap

A trip to Mars does not inherently take an enormous amount of resources. Cost of fuel is actually pretty low. There is a huge potential for cost decrease in space travel as reusability is mastered.It may never be cheap enough for everyone to afford it but it could be cheap enough for middle class in developed countries to afford it.

>>9003780

there is no need at all to approach speed of light if all you want to do is travel among solar system bodies

FTL is complete science fiction and is not even needed for initial colonization anyway

reality is not star trek and never will be

>>8995938

>Personal vehicles are a waste of energy, electric or not.

There is nothing wrong with "wasting energy" as long as it is generated in a sustainable manner. Energy efficiency is just a cherry on top at best, not an actual solution.

And no, it is certainly not a waste because personal vehicles are much more versatile than trains, you brainlet autist. What is it with autism and fascination by trains anyway

>>8994560
>Fiala believes
That is his first mistake.
You have money you go to mars,you dont have money you dont go to mars.
It is that simple,kinda pathetic if you ask me for a "professor".

>>9006689 >>8994560
The Philosopher Fiala will probably never "Know that He know nothing" about Science.

>>9006623
The only issue with Zubrin's plans is that he breaks it down into pieces that are too small over too long a period of time. It makes the plan manageable, but it also makes it more vulnerable to shifts in political power, changes in the public's attitude, etc – even halfway through the plan, there's nothing that keeps involved parties committed, meaning if for instance it's suddenly deemed that the cash needs to elsewhere the whole thing can be canned.

By comparison, Musk's plan is to only have a tiny handful of relatively "uncommitted" prep missions (a few red dragons, two unmanned ITS's full of cargo) sending a smallish crew of humans more early on and then following up with more people in the following launch window, ramping up crew size significantly each time. In a nutshell, the idea is to get a manned base on the Martian surface ASAP because that locks contributors in much more securely and ensures that the program continues.

>>9002327

Because I want to go, fuck robots.

>>9003711

1. Light reflecting off of the sea at a low angle (say 10 degrees?) and back up to the eye of the camera on the balloon. Same thing happens if you watch a sunset across a lake or other body f water, it isn't a hot spot.

2. Water always flows towards a position of least potential energy, which on Earth means the surface sits at an equal point away from the core (barring tidal forces which stir things up a bit). On a big enough sphere, and with your point of observation very close to the surface, it appears flat, but is actually a circular horizon on a much larger ball.

3. Crepuscular rays are parallel, they are also huge and very far away (thousands of miles long, hundreds of miles from you when you can see them). Since your brain tends to map what it sees in the sky as being on the surface of a dome, because it has no reference of scale or distance, the rays appear to be focusing on a point not far from you. Perspective causes very long parallel structures to converge as they recede, despite not actually converging in reality.

4. The horizon is a circular area of the sphere of the Earth which is not obscured by its curvature from your vision. Barring terrain, the horizon line is always a set distance from you in every direction. However, by picking a higher vantage point your horizon recedes from you, letting you see further. At infinite distance your horizon covers an entire hemisphere of the Earth, but you're used to being just a few meters off of the surface, a few kilometers at most. As with #2, being very close to a very large sphere results in it appearing flat to your eye.

getting into space is one of the avenues for curtailing pollution here on earth. the great thing about mars and space in general, is that we can fuck shit up and it doesn't matter.

we can crash asteroids into mars, dump toxic waste into open pits, and do all sorts of other industrial processes that would be disallowed here on earth.

>>9002523
You are a retard. Wealthy countries can only be rich because they force the poor underdeveloped nations to buy their useless manufactured products in unfair deals. It's something called neo colonialism for your information. Half of the German economy is of exports, most of which to countries in Latin America, Africa and Asia. If there was no poor third world countries, first world nations would not be half as wealthy.

>>8994560
How is that a problem? Let's not infect Mars with brainlets just like we did Earth. Although I would disagree that we need to extend humanity's suffering even more by having more options, can't we just die off as a species at some point? Why stop global warming?

>>8994642
Don't forget that they use brown coal instead of black (brown pollutes twice as much).

If one dedicates their entire life to become the perfect candidate for a mars program are their chances of making the cut realistic?

>Fresno State University
Literal brainlet.

>>9008995
why wouldn't it
if you become the ideal, that would make you the ideal
unless you're white, in which you probably have a 10% chance at best

>>9008014

>Half of the German economy is of exports, most of which to countries in Latin America, Africa and Asia.

Complete BS, vast majority of German exports go to other European countries, USA and China, in that order. Third wolds is just a small part.

>If there was no poor third world countries, first world nations would not be half as wealthy.

You post such nonsense and yet you have the audacity to call others retards, lol. The reality is that with the exception of raw natural resources there is not much third world countries contribute to the world economy and first world would certainly survive without them just fine.

>>9009120
Don't know. In main third world country first worlders do a lot of efforts selling their shitty coca-cola, fanta, beer, chewing gum, tooth-paste, hollywood crap and buying on local stock market shares for raider purpose (for destroying competitors) or use us as colonial workers. Their efforts literally making local production business hard.

>>9009132

you can see German exports here:

http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/visualize/tree_map/hs92/export/deu/show/all/2015/

Thirdworlders tend to be poor and as such cannot afford to buy much. Only 1.9% of German exports goes to Africa and 1.7 % to latin America.

>>9009120
>>9009144
SIGH. Whoever made these two posts kill yourself. I did not know /sci/ is illiterate when it comes to history and geopolitics. First of all... During the Industrial Revolution, the European countries used to literally FORCE lesser nations to buy their shit.... When they would refuse like China did for a while things like the Opium Wars would happen... How do you think Africa was useful without slavery huh. As of today, the precious natural resources of the third world countries are owned by first world countries. Why do you think the USA is not invading Venezuela despite it being oil rich, yeah that's right their oil belongs to Exxon and this applies not just to Venezuela but also all of Latin America,Africa and parts of Asia. It's why it's so common to see communism rising and regimes changing in those parts of the world. And when the rich countries don't get to exploit the other countries into poverty you get Iraq and Syria. Although if your country is big enough you can end up like China or Russia. Also it's not just forcing unfair trade deals and owning resources. If anything that's just the tip of the iceberg. Currency manipulation and other financial tactics are even more of a factor. But I won't go over those facts. You're brainlets who genuinely believe poor countries are poor because they're inferior and your country is rich because you're just a hard working man.