/sci/ - Science & Math

at least the classes were split up, there's nothing worse than those math classes for both math majors and engineers, i had to take a linear algebra class and a complex analysis class with them and it just dumbed down the entire experience

>>8832080
Engineers need complex analysis?

>>8832136
No.
Complex has at least intro to proofs as a req. It sometimes has intermediate anysos as a req. Engineers Def don't need to take those

>>8832136
there's at least 3 streams of engineering at my school that require it, applied mechanics, computing/communications and systems/robotics

>>8832136
it's core knowledge for a electrical engineering

>>8832076
>American "engineers"

gets me everytime

No wonder everyone makes fun of them

>>"Okay kids find the determinant of a 4x4 matrix on paper"
>>Professor proceeds to masturbate furiously to trap porn for 7 minutes

I used to not fully appreciate the hate for engineers here - then I did an internal company competition amongst global graduates and HOLY SHIT what do they teach in american engineering courses. This is a big prestigious company too.

>French engineers have to compete with future ENS students in math and physics during two first years (at least) and in competitive exams

>>8832076
Meanwhile, in America

Can't hold my breathe right now hahaha

>>8832076
Mechanical engineering grad student here.
What's a row operation? One of the steps in Gauss Elimination?

We definitely spent some time on Gauss Elimination as it pops up everywhere, can't imagine actually spending time practicing individual row manipulations and not just solving the matrix.

>>8833476
Kys

>mfw engineers call reflections "elementary row operations of the first type"
>mfw engineers call directional scaling "elementary row operations of the second type"
>mfw engineers call shearing "an elementary row operation of the third type"

>>8832076
American engineers are a fucking joke. Some retarded first year made a thread yesterday asking how to solve internal loading of a truss since his ENTIRE class failed the problem.

>>8833519
Never seen this before

t. engineer
>>8833560
freshmen haven't been culled yet?

This is normal.

In my school we have three classes.

1. math/physics
2. cs/ai/...etc
3. engineering/chemistry (dumbest of the three)

I love it that engineers always think they are smart sciency people, lol.

>engineers
>not a bunch of flaming homosexuals
>implying you need to know about row operations to build a fucking machine
>implying the only reason they are taking engineering isn't because they want to build ass fucking machines to fuck themselves

>>8833560
That guy was from the Ukraine, retard

>its a mathematicians take out their virgin anger on engineers thread

>>8833560
how would anybody but a civil engineer be able to solve this

>>8834052
both mechanical and civil engineering students take statics and mechanics/strength of materials.

>>8834072
well, I'm neither
what does the solution to that type of problem involve?

>>8834078
>>8834052
statics and mechanics/strength of materials.

>>8832076
My uni only had one elementary linear algebra course that everyone had to take. The class was watered-down to the point that everything we did was just an exercise in row-reducing some matrix.

>mfw the graduate level "advanced" linear algebra course was literally just the same class but with proofs and no hand-holding

>>8834072
IE too

>>8834083
I mean what kind of mathematical methods, I have no idea what any of that involves

>>8834052
>>8834072
that guy was right. most american engineers are garbage. they go to BK randy schools that barely meet ABET accreditation. its why there are so many "engineering grads" who can't find a job. turns out the name of the school (and the quality of the education you get there) actually fucking matters.

>>8834092
literally just solving a system of linear equations with boundary conditions defined by the fixities.

>>8832076
EE here, my school is the same way. For intro differential equations and linear algebra. Also, I believe they might teach Calc II slightly differently depending on the concentration of engineers in the class, not sure though.
The engineering classes are more computational. No proofs required, except simple things like "show this set of vectors spans R3". Fortunately they let us take the normal classes if we want to. Unfortunately however I was a retard and just followed the general curriculum for diffeq and linalg. Endless row ops left a really bad taste in my mouth for linear algebra.

>>8834119
If you want a giggle, audit a calc for business class.

>>8834052
in France all engineers are required to be able to do that.

>>8834159
No they aren't.

>>8834194
Are you seriously telling me that you think engineering students aren't required to slbe able to solve a simple free body problem? Fuck right off, truss problems are babby-tier simple.

>>8834216
I don't give a fuck how simple they are. Why would a computer engineer be required to solve a fucking truss problem?

>>8834242
because there is no specialization until 3rd year.

For the first 2 years high level mathfags/physicsfags and all engineers do the same thing. It means everyone does rigorous math, rigorous physics, statics, thermodynamics, some CS, electricity and EM, and so on.

>>8834092
drawing a free body diagram of all the forces and moments, setting up equations of equilibrium, and solving the system of equations to find unknown values.

Civil engineering major here. The way I see it, anyone who hates on engineers is really just jealous that engineers make bank fresh out of college while you "purer" science majors are relegated to teaching positions after 3-4 more years of grad school. Does anyone really think society could function if all the engineers disappeared tomorrow? You guys are fucking delusional if you think that.

>>8834341
my school (american) actually does that too, everything except statics, but only for the first year, so obviously not as in depth
rigor varies depending on whether you do regular classes or honors classes

>>8834396
if they were jealous wouldn't they have just done engineering instead?

the people in 'purer' sciences just have different interests/pursuits

>>8834402

It's just pointless elitism. Not jealousy.

>>8834402
>if they were jealous wouldn't they have just done engineering instead?
not necessarily. you can be jealous without actually putting in the work to do something about it.

>>8834408
>>8834396

it's not elitism. you're a brainlet

B R A I N L E T

i don't want to spend time doing things that are done by brainlets

>>8834415
then their interest in science outweights their interest in a starting salary, so what's the issue?

>>8834428
Obviously not everyone who is an academic cares about money and is jealous of engineers for it, I'm sure 95% of academics could give two shits about engineers. My point is that the 5% who shit on engineers are very clearly jealous of them in one form or another.

>>8834425

Like I said, pointless elitism.

>>8834425
this entire post is quite literally elitism and if you can't see that you're a

....... . . . . . . .B R A I N L E T
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. . . . . . . B R A I N L E T
....... . . . . . . . I
....... . . . . . . . N
.......B R A I N L E T
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....... . . . . . . . T E L N I A R B
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . A
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>>8834444
you can shit on them without being jealous though is the thing

i shit on them for four years for watering down the math classes we shared, whining about how hard linear algebra apparently was, fostering cheating and in general being obnoxious, but maybe that was just the engineering culture at my university

and anyway math professors make over 100k/year even at smaller schools, with consistent raises of ~5k/year, just for researching topics they're interested in and lecturing brainlets a few times per week, plus getting to travel around the world for conferences. it's not a job with very many drawbacks so the offset of a few years getting a handle on teaching while doing your research on the side is negligible considering the long-term payoff

i think you'll see things differently once you're a few years into your undergrad, it sounds like you've just fallen for the classic 'my major is better than everyone else's' meme that freshman who don't have anything else to think about yet fall for.

>>8834444
>could give two shits
>could

>>8834402
Because Mathematicians are fucking autists permavirgins who are shit in social settings that many engineering jobs require. They rather be locked in a room reminiscent of mummy's basement to solve abstract equations and feasting on tendies and monster energy.

>>8834476
>fostering cheating
Only the Asian students cheat in the US because thats just their culture. Math majors just hate that engineers "guesstimate" instead of getting exact precise calculations. What you guys fail to understand is its more efficient to just estimate as closely as possible then add a safety net by a factor of 3 because of the reality that is projects are built using loans and Mr Shekelstein does not like paying interest so he wants shit done quick.

>>8835111
>They rather be locked in a room reminiscent of mummy's basement to solve abstract equations and feasting on tendies and monster energy.

this is literally how i manage my CS and math guys. they love it and make me look amazing to upper management.

>>8835125
>they love it
I imagine that pizza day with hi-c drinks makes you extremely popular. taking care of autists does not seem as hard as people make it out to be.

>>8835111
you obviously don't know much about math beyond maybe freshman classes on the subject, the ability to communicate ideas to others is literally is one of the most important skills for a mathematician... good luck getting anyone to care about work otherwise

>>8835121
>Only the Asian students cheat in the US because thats just their culture.
at the school I went to (in Canada) cheating was extremely widespread among all engineers I knew, even the white ones

>Math majors just hate that engineers "guesstimate" instead of getting exact precise calculations. What you guys fail to understand is its more efficient to just estimate as closely as possible then add a safety net by a factor of 3 because of the reality that is projects are built using loans and Mr Shekelstein does not like paying interest so he wants shit done quick.
i don't mean cheating as in not being 'faithful' to pure math or however you misinterpreted me, i mean literally cheating on coursework

>>8835140
Every mathematician major at my uni is basically /r9k/. I truly can not imagine how a math major has sex in college.

>>8835148
>I truly can not imagine how a math major has sex in college.
why don't you ask them? it sounds like you don't spend much time around any of them. maybe you're at one of those stuck-up schools where people don't get laid much

>>8835156
>too smart to procreate with the opposite sex of the species

>>8835148
>Every mathematician major at my uni is basically /r9k/. I truly can not imagine how a math major has sex in college.
Lol, there were more girls in math than in most engineering streams at my school. Most of my math classes were at least 60% female

>>8835175
good to see that math majors are progressive enough for sex changes. #courage