/sci/ - Science & Math

>>8808446
*I had a discussion

>>8808446
I remember being 16

Once you learn some history, philosophy, and humility you will feel better even if those around you do not believe the same as you

>>8808451
I'm not 16, i'm 22.

I respect the rights of my father to believe in whatever he wants, but saying that "the problem with science is that it has theories" was an astonishingly retarded thing to say

>>8808446
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgk8UdV7GQ0

You're father I right and you're not. Care to buy a fedora?

>>8808454
Perhaps he doesn't have as good an understand of science as you, and instead of calling him retarded you could attempt to understand why that is, why it might be that he is opposed to it, why he is opposed to learning, etc. Just assuming it is due to religion is a poor excuse, it'd be like just assuming gravity made sense because of god like newton said.


Be a scientist, investigate the causes and reasons. Also, be more empathetic and patient with your dad. He's not going to be around forever and you will regret always not speaking more with him and understanding him.

>>8808446
you sound like a douche.

Also
>gifted
>posting on /sci/

>>8808464
I know my dad for a really long time.

see the video the guy posted here >>8808455 my dad is actually like this. i'm not even kidding. he legitimately doesn't give a fuck about facts or logic.

>>8808446
nothing anyone believes is true, some people are closer than others.

there are various techniques to convince people to believe anything, even against their self-interest.


your faith in science is irrational and needs to be tempered, no experience or wisdom with unwarranted enthusiasm, typical fedora cancer. your dad understands this and is trying to explain to you (1) by using (2) unsuccessfully, because you're both sub 155IQ retards.

you might look at the wikipedia page for stress-energy tensor and feel humbled because you're a brainlet who can't hierarchically self-educate. your dad might read the bible and look at pictures of space on his facebook wall then look outside at the world and feel humbled, because he's a brainlet who can't understand hierarchical scales of magnitude.

aren't you both happy you live in a world were we allow mouth breathing retards like you to not only exist but thrive? soon automation and free money will ensure you wont reproduce, i will enjoy the next 50 years watching billions of pond scum dying from preventable causes associated with unhealthy lifestyles. Here is your rope, now hang. Hopefully by the mid 22nd century we have a 2-3 million left who are strong and intelligent enough to explore the limits of understanding untethered from the preceding thousands years of barbarism and idiocy.

Free porn, free food, free drugs, free entertainment, free sterilizations, free robots. I am convinced we can stop you breeding and wait you out. Oh sure 8 billion sounds like a lot now, but just as quickly as it doubled we can halve it, and halve it, and halve it again.

>>8808492
There is a sharp difference between science, which is a methodology to discover the truth about nature, and religion, which is basically saying "le god is real and this is not disputable XD"

The reason i trust scientists is not only rational, it is irrational to dispute science when you live in a society that is dependent on technology which exists only as a result of science.

I find it ironic that you are trying to dismiss science while communicating with me through a device that could not exist without scientific research.

It's true that transportation of data has issues of trust and accuracy, which is why every scientific claim is being researched by multiple different scientific institution. nothing is taken for guaranteed, and everything has to be questioned in order to find the truth.

>>8808492
And by the way, your claim that "nothing anyone believes is true" is not only a false statement, it's also self contradictory, because if nothing people believe in is true, then your own statement isn't true either

>>8808446
>Share experiences you had with retarded people
i read the OP

maybe you are the retarded one when you act like a retard?

>you can't proof that god exist
people 3000years couldn't proof that the earth is round... stop ruling out the possibility of a creator until we can proof one side right (or wrong).
right now we just don't know the truth so the possibility is still there.

but i agree that religion is human made bullshit.

>>8808505
"Incredible claims require incredible evidence"

If you have no evidence there is a space wizard who does hocus pocus and listens to prayers, you have no basis to make this claim

>>8808502
HURRRRRRRRRRRR
a statement of fact is equivalent to a belief
DURRRRRRRRRRRR

>>8808499
redditspacing edgelord, contribute to a field, invent something, or fuck off. God doesn't need a preacher and science doesn't need your advocacy, it's for people ABOVE you to do, and for people BELOW you to rightfully mistrust because it's going to eliminate them all. you fit into that middleground sweetspot, where you're too educated to rejected science, too stupid to do it, and just brainwashed enough to reason your way around it wiping you and the rest of homo inferus from the gene pool because it gives you a temporary comfort.

>>8808518
Dude, science is literally a methodology humans invented to know the truth about nature

Without science, humans couldn't use electricity

Without science, humans wouldn't know what are the efficient ways to grow crops

Without science, you wouldn't have earthquake warnings or tsunami warnings or even hurricane warnings

Our society is heavily dependent on scientists in order to function. if you completely dismiss science you are a special kind of retard

>>8808446
if this thread can be considered an experience I suppose I'm having an experience with a retard right now
fuck off, materialist-tard

>>8808528
>"I feel that something exists therefore it exists :D"

>>8808525
without your dad you wouldn't exist.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

Op, read this 30 times a day until it sticks, especially if you want to call yourself a "scientist" some day.

Retard.

>>8808534
>trusting your senses in spite of their repeated fallibility
You can't make this shit up

>>8808539
And this has nothing to do with the validity of his claims

>>8808540
Absence of evidence IS actually evidence of absence. wtf are you even talking about?

>>8808544
>Everything is either black or white, there are no shades of gray. if human sense have any flaws at all it means that ANYTHING TO SENSE IS WRONG!!!!

You are fucking retarded. you realize that human senses had to create a close enough model of reality in order for humanity to survive, right?

It's true they aren't perfect, however there is a sharp difference between an imperfect system and a system which is not trustworthy at all

>>8808544
>Everything is either black or white, there are no shades of gray. if human senses have any flaws at all it means that ANYTHING THAT YOU SENSE IS WRONG!!!!

You are fucking retarded. you realize that human senses had to create a close enough model of reality in order for humanity to survive, right?

It's true they aren't perfect, however there is a sharp difference between an imperfect system and a system which is not trustworthy at all

>>8808515
you are correct but this doesn't automaticly mean a creator don't exist.
we just don't know, till then we shouldn't rule out one of the possibilitys.

>>8808515

I personally do have evidence of God; I've interacted with Him. This is the subjective sort of evidence that is enough to cause me, the one who has experienced, to believe, but not enough to do the same for those who have not.

Objectively, I can provide the plausibility of God as a creator in whose likeness we exist, as I can myself operate as a creator of worlds using only modern technology.

>>8808547

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_absence

Try reading a book on philosophy once in a while instead of being a Reddit-tier fedora. Because we don't have proof of a god, doesn't mean he cannot exist.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Read it again, retard.

>>8808540
>"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

It literally is tho. If you tell me a pair of elephants wrestled one another to death in your living room, and there is zero evidence of any damage to said room, then that absent evidence is itself evidence that your elephant story isn't true.

>>8808547

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence in any sense. Absence of evidence neither precludes nor supposes the existence of evidence. It is the state of not knowing.

This whole thread is a bunch of 15 year olds who got a B- in their Algebra 2 class jerking each other off. Seriously, fuck off back to /b/ or /r/atheism or whatever shithole you came from

>>8808570

For somebody who is so gifted, you really are dense. The absence of evidence in the anecdotal example you gave is enough for plausible deniability but certainly not enough for a decisive conclusion.

Suppose your example is the case. Then, in five years, a neighbor appears who videotaped the event through the window. This video is evidence. Your previous lack of evidence is simply the state of not having any basis to believe the claim, not evidence that your blind rejection is reality.

>>8808446

Looks like you inherited those brainlet genes, bub. You're the same as your parents.

>>8808567
If you believe it's more logical that you contacted with a space wizard, and not that you had an hallucination, then you are not intellectually honest.

You don't have to have schizophrenia to have hallucinations

>>8808567
You're belief that you interacted with god is not even subjective evidence as it is much more likely you simply favorably misinterpreted your experience.

>>8808572
>>8808569
Absence of evidence does not disprove something directly, but it does prove that the source of the claim is within someones imagination, and therefore it confirms the claim is BS

Religious people are effectively sub-human, trying to imagine the state of being that gullible is like trying to imagine having a dog's mind.

This lady I know is married to a minister who said that math is easy because you just make up your own definitions. A minister. Told mathematicians that their work is easy because it's made up. A minister.

>>8808569
>Because we don't have proof of a god, doesn't mean he cannot exist.
>"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Read it again, retard.
If "philosophy class" told you these statements are equivalent, maybe you should try a different one.

Let A = absence of existence
Let E* = lack of evidence of existence

P(A|E*) = P(A) P(E*|A) / P(E*) = P(A)/P(E*)

P(A)/P(E*) > P(A) when P(E*) =! 1

Therefore E* is evidence of A.

>>8808584
You don't understand what evidence means.

>>8808446
Not necessarily talking to a moron, but a funny story nonetheless.

>in neurobio class
>last class of semester
>prof is hilarious and often goes on tangents of how much he despises the faculty and uni
>doing a review of material for upcoming exam as well mentioning guidelines for the essay due in a week
>guy at the back of class raises hand
>"last time I went to print out my essay, my printer died"
>prof "so use the one in the library"
>guy responds "I was going to but my file got encrypted and I lost it somehow, how do I prevent that from happening again"
>prof looks at him blankly
>"uhm..do you have a .38?"
>guy perplexed "what"
>prof: because you should probably shoot yourself"


just straight up savagery from a 70 year old dude

>>8808561
An imperfection on a model of reality, considering there are others which are perfect, is enough to render it obsolete.

>>8808446
You sound like sort of a dick, to be totally honest.

No, I retract that, you sound like a total dick.

>>8808446
ITT: Edge sharpening taken to new levels.

>>8808657
If you define being a rational human being as being edgy, then i'm proudly an edgy person

>>8808612
To be fair I don't think any mathematical proof is as hard as proving the existence of God.

>>8808570
The state of the living room is evidence that bo elephants fought there.

Now, show me your evidence that there is no God. You cannot, because there isn't any.

Evidence that there is no God does not exist, evidence that there IS a God is commonplace but almost entirely anecdotal. If you go only with such evidence as there is, the working hypothesis must be that there is a God.

>>8808651
The fact human senses are not perfect does not make them obsolete you idiot.

Science is all about getting closer and closer to the truth. even with an imperfect methodology you can have a process which systematically gets you closer to the truth about nature

>>8808668
Science is a meme. Only through pure Reason is one able to access reality in a reliable way.

I'm looking back and I don't think I've ever had one truly stupid interaction. Possibly because I've always gone to elite schools since I was a kid. I have cousins who are creationists, but I haven't heard them actually say anything stupid, since genetically they are smart and actually work as doctors and scientists and engineers and such.

>>8808673
The methodology of science was developed by pure reason.

>>8808667
The state of the living room being unaffected by elephants would be an absence of evidence of elephants. The absence of evidence of god is the same thing. You just argued against yourself.

>>8808676
Reason may be its substrate but the fact is it has been corrupted by empiricism, which taints it with the volatility of the senses.

>>8808595
OP here reminds me of the story of the country rube, taken into the big city for the first time,. Among the sights he is taken to see is the city zoo, wherein he is shown the Giraffe. The bumpkin stares at it for a time, then announces, "Nope, you can't fool me, there ain't no such animal!"

Why are people so obsessed with this atheism shit? Do you honestly think you're superior to religious people just because "no proof of god xd"

Im not even religious but if you care enough to argue against religion you clearly have issues

>>8808576
This is the only sensible post in this thread.

>>8808598
>Absence of evidence does not disprove something directly, but it does prove that the source of the claim is within someones imagination


This is true -- evolution did not actually exist until somebody found some missing links. Prior to that, it had never happened, and people who thought it had, like Darwin and the rest, were just making shit up.

>>8808674
What field of scientists are they if they are creationists? I figured there's so much crossover in the fields with evolution that eventually it their beliefs would contradict their studies?

>>8808686
Through pure reason you concluded that empirical evidence are worthless?

Your capabilities of reasoning are pretty shit. empirical evidence are a very strong form of evidence

>>8808691
Why are you people so obsessed with people who argue against religion? Get a life.

>>8808691
Atheists are objectively more intellectually honest than religious people.

You cannot be intellectually honest and religious at the same time because religion inherently defies logic

>>8808694
>Darwin had no evidence of evolution
You sound like a creationist.

>>8808663
No, I define being juvenilely edgy about it as the "being edgy" part.

Many, perhaps most, rational people exist in that state without being douche-wads.

>>8808705
I'm not a douche, im just rational person who tells people they are wrong when they are being wrong.

>>8808705
I find it funny how people will complain about an atheist stating their opinion about religion being stupid but will never complain about religious people stating their opinion about atheism being stupid in the exact same thread. The fedora meme is just as strong at distorting the debate as religion itself.

>>8808499
science is not a monolith. there are good scientists and bad scientists. as you yourself said "nothing is taking for guaranteed, and everything has to be questioned in order to find the truth", so it seems strange that you are inclined to trust someone solely on the basis of his job title.

>I'm against the government having access to all my data
>do you have something to hide :^)))))))))))))
Every fucking time like clockwork

>>8808680
No.

A fight of elephants in a living room would have certain predictable effects -- broken sofas, elephant tracks in the blood, etc. A living room that lacks these signs shows positive evidence that no elephants fought there. Of course, in either case, somebody could fake things up -- maybe somebody broke the sofa and made up an elephant story, maybe somebody cleaned the place up after the fight to hide what had happened. So there is no proof, really, but some fairly convincing evidence as to whether, or not, elephants fought in your living room.

Now let us look at the Universe. What signs would you expect to see if God created it? Hell if I know. What signs would you expect to see if He did not create it? Fuck if I know.

We CAN detect signs and evidence in the universe that contradict, for example, the literal interpretation of the Genesis story, unless we want to go chasing down the rabbit hole of "God made fake evidence to fool us." But evidence as to whether, or not, there is a God? Point to some, if you think there is any.

Again, in your elephant example, I can point to positive evidence that I would expect to show whether the fight had happened, or other evidence that I would expect to see if no fight happened. Can you point to what evidence you'd expect, or that you see, that indicates whether God exists or that he does not?

I'll wait.

So far, having been alive a few years longer than you, if you are OP, I have never seen any evidence at all that there is no God. I have only seen circumstantial or subjective evidence in favor of the hypothesis.

>>8808702
Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers that smell bad.

>>8808717
You also contradict yourself in that post.

>>8808722
You seem to be dodging. But if somebody says that the atheist is stupid for not believing something for which there is little objective evidence, they are also being edgy and annoying.

Still, at the end of the day, the one who claims definitively that there is NO God is the one making a claim with no evidence behind it at all. Somebody driven only by the scientific method can go no further than "We don't know."

>>8808746
i did not contradict myself.
please explain how the fuck i was being contradictory.

>>8808734
>A fight of elephants in a living room would have certain predictable effects -- broken sofas, elephant tracks in the blood, etc. A living room that lacks these signs shows positive evidence that no elephants fought there.
Are you retarded? You just described the absence of positive evidence of elephants as positive evidence that no elephants fought there. You just contradicted your entire argument.

>Can you point to what evidence you'd expect, or that you see, that indicates whether God exists or that he does not?
The burden of proof is on the one who claims god exists. He must provide details on what "god" means such that evidence can be defined. Until he does that he is not claiming anything meaningful. I am fine with accepting this if that is what you're claiming. But it doesn't change the fact that no evidence of god had been presented and that this is evidence against it.

>>8808732
this one gets me. i think what bothers me the most is the presumption that any remotely controversial opinion must be formed out of pure self-interest.

>>8808746
I don't think many atheists claim that they definitively know that there is no god, simply that it is highly unlikely due to the sources of the claim, the extraordinary nature of the claim, and the utter lack of evidence.

>>8808756
No. Figure it out for yourself. Think of it as a learning experience.

>>8808771
>oh shit i said he contradicted himself but i can't demonstrate how he was being contradictory

>i better escape this argument and tell him to find how he was being contradictory by himself! HAHAA im so smart :^)

>>8808759
>The burden of proof is on the one who claims god exists.
The burden of proof is not an issue -- we are talking about evidence, not proof. Also, the burden of proof is open the one making the claim. Claiming God does not exist is a claim that would require evidence to back it up.

>>8808769
Even assigning a likelihood is impossible, lacking evidence to support the position. With have no evidence against the proposition at all, we have little evidence for it, and that anecdotal.

If you are framing your thinking based on science and logic, the only position is "I don;t know," with maybe a slight tilt towards the affirmative since the little evidence we have lies in that direction.

If you are forming your opinions based on faith, that is a different matter.

>>8808773
I can, I am not going to. Reading comprehension, friend, it is a skill.

>>8808778
This is some circular-ass logic

There is proof neither for the existence nor the non-existence of God
>Prove me wrong

>>8808787
You can't, but you say you can because you don't want to admit you were bullshitting

>>8808446
posting in this thread

get your shit together

>>8808778
>The burden of proof is not an issue -- we are talking about evidence, not proof.
I'm not talking about proof either. Read the entire sentence.

>Claiming God does not exist is a claim that would require evidence to back it up.
The evidence of god not existing is the lack of evidence of him existing. Absence of evidence is indeed evidence of absence. See >>8808616

>>8808446
I see one every morning in the mirror when I go to the bathroom

;_;

>>8808784
>Even assigning a likelihood is impossible, lacking evidence to support the position.
The lack of evidence for god is huge evidence that supports the position.

>we have little evidence for it, and that anecdotal.
Which is not evidence at all.

>If you are framing your thinking based on science and logic, the only position is "I don;t know," with maybe a slight tilt towards the affirmative since the little evidence we have lies in that direction
By that logic you must believe every claim since there is no such thing as positive evidence of an absence. And as I already explained, most atheists are agnostic. I don't have to "know" God doesn't exist to claim that he doesn't, since the source of the claim, extraordinary nature of the claim, and lack of evidence of the claim all support my position. You apply the exact same logic to most ridiculous claims, yet you make an exception for god. Try replacing the word god with leprechaun and making the same argument.

>OP tries to sound smart arguing with his dad, loses the argument
>posts on /sci/ nobody agrees with him

maybe your dad is smarter than you OP? the problem with this thread is that it has theories.

One of my coworkers is a flat earther who works on satellites. Says that he's pointing at the firmament which bounces the signal down to cell towers. His evidence for this was his faith in the Bible.

>>8808856
Some people here agree me with me and some aren't

It doesn't change the fact that the statement my dad made is fucking retarded

>>8808446
You're not gifted.
Don't make a mock out of yourself here again please.

>>8808878
OP here
My IQ is 136~140

>>8808882
>Under 150
Don't even talk to me anymore

Ugh, you people talk about science like it's a tangible thing, like it's a religion.
It makes me feel dirty.

"Oh hey guys, I was talking about science stuff" blah blah blah, "I love science".
Science isn't something you believe in, it's not "a way of life".

You sound like a fedora wearing virgin when you talk like that.

>>8808882
>g-guies!! m-muh I-IQ!!!!
Top kek, holy shit
Either show me real STEM published papers or shut the fuck up

>>8808893
If climate scientists would tell you that an hurricane is going to hit your town tomorrow, you will listen to them and evacuate.

If a priest would tell you god told him an hurricane will hit your town tomorrow, you would think that person is crazy.

>>8808882
>>8808905
Also, any online IQ test never counts you retarded dibshit.

>>8808905
>>8808908
It wasn't online IQ tests. i did 3 tests in the Karni institution in israel which is dedicated to spot gifted individuals

>>8808914
but that isn't anywhere close to gifted. You're barely capable of teaching undergrads with that range.

the fact you wasted this much time ITT shows what a brainlet you are, we were making a lot more progress before they taught people like you how to read.

>>8808914
>in Israel
Ok, that's a good joke for sure.

>English class project in groups
>choose to do my project on why most popsci is retarded
>three people join and just keep shilling YouTube retards as good popsci material
>I'm literally the only one in the group to know Newton's laws of motion

>>8808924
An IQ of 136~140 puts me in the top 1% of the population. that makes me gifted

>>8809025
But if you still havent achieved anything with your 140 iq, that means you should be embarrassed about it, not proud motherfucker

>>8809049
Achievement isn't meaningful, participation in society is a joke in general.

>>8809049
I actually achieved things im really proud of in my life. i'm an experienced musician, the experience i get from composing music and listening to what i composed is an absolutely incredible experience for me

>>8808569
The quote is so poorly worded that it's worthless. Absence of evidence from an incident or situation that cannot be or has not been investigated is not evidence of absence. However, when a proper investigation has returned evidence that the incident didn't occur it is not PROOF that it didn't occur (unless it's a proof of impossibility) but it *does* refute the claim so that the onus is on the deist/Christian to provide more evidence... especially evidence of why what should have been found - wasn't.

>>8808446
>Implies he isn't retarded
>Attacks someones deep beliefs and saying its all false and worthless
>Gets a knee jerk reaction
>Can't understand why there's little thought in the reaction.

Gee anon, I feel sorry for your dad having to deal with his retarded son.

>>8809161
>Absence of evidence from an incident or situation that cannot be or has not been investigated is not evidence of absence.
False. As long as it is possible for evidence to exist and for you to be aware of it, the absence of evidence is evidence of absence, even without investigating.

I used to take people out of a mental health private hospital and walk them around the community.

One guy used to lay down on the floor and chant loudly, and also talk to shopkeepers about how he was hitler.

>>8808492
>>8808499

tldr


>Be me
>civil engineer
>32 years old
>2 months ago
>go to some dude's apartments to do some work for him(some energy efficiency document,or something.)
>Spartan
>believes in flat earth theory
>Conspiracy.jpg
>mfw I can't really insult him, since I havent been paid yet.
>Dude: I know u think I'm stupid, but I suggest u watch that video on youtube(some retarded video in which Earth was obviously appearing to be spherical)
>Ok...lets say u are right..
>Why would NASA lie to us Mr Gentleman Sir..?
>Blah blah blah - something to do with God(s).

+ A retarded smirk in his face like he just invented immortality.


Op.

you Dad sounds like a fucking retard as well.
I suggest u create a youtube channel in which u post video conversations that you've had with your father.

Just make him talk about his favorite topics. And expose him for the fucking moron that he really is.
All this equals to profit. Sweet fucking money for you.

money in the fucking bank.

dollars.

>>8809167
1. "Deep beliefs" can be retarded when they are beliefs of a space wizard in sky who protects you

2. i wasn't calling him retarded for believing in a deity, i was calling him retarded for saying that "the problem with science is theories"

>>8809204

look up about my youtube idea,

>>8808446
>Be me
>Mixed postgrad class re-capping fundamentals of geophys
>Professor explaining what factors affect propagation of p-waves through the substrate
>Points out how useful this is to the oil industry because it makes seismic imaging possible
>Guy sticks his hand up
>"yes?"
>"Has anyone considered using light waves?"
>Professor chuckles, then realises the dude is serious
> awkwardface.png
>"Rocks are opaque"
>Some people start laughing
>Guy stares blankly as if to say "so?"

I think he still hasn't realised

>>8809161
Continued...

At first it is unclear which party is making the assertion in the Christian v atheist argument. Much like in a court, the person bringing a claim wants a result to materialise - a monetary award or a conviction for a defendant. A religious person's aim is to make an atheist conform to a certain kind of mindset and behaviour that outsiders are oblivious or indifferent to... so I think that it's they who are *bringing* the claim. Yeah, it's tough to have the burden of proof but even if deists could bring some convincing first argument to the debate (showing "God" to be more likely that not") it would be atheists on the back foot. What deists don't understand though, is that it's impossible for atheists to be on the back foot because they aren't defending anything except reality. Evidence of God interacting supernaturally with the universe would by definition not be logical or natural.

>>8809178
I'm not sure what you're saying or even what stance you're taking but all I was saying is that "absence of evidence" as it is used in that saying means you don't have any information of any kind. Therefore it's not evidence of absence. It's not evidence of presence. It's nothing... and it's not a case and barely even an assertion. It means the case hasn't been looked into or is out of reach of investigation.

>>8808907
What would you do if a nuclear physicist told you a hurricane was likely to hit your town tomorrow?

Also, climate scientists do not predict when a particular hurricane will hit my town, weather nerds do that.

>>8808795
Try this:

"I am not a douche" is contradicted by then explaining a way that you are a douche.

>>8809262
And I'm saying there is no such thing as "you don't have any information of any kind." Lack of information is itself informative.

>>8808665
How many ministers actually spend their time trying to prove God exists? None I've heard of

>>8809329
Christian apologists, not ministers.

>>8809296
Telling people that they are wrong when they are being wrong is not being a douche, kindly stop being retarded, there was no contradiction there

>>8808595

I have contact with God, not a space wizard. Projecting your derogatory caricatures onto my experience does not invalidate it.

Also, my "hallucination" has produced tangible effects in my life, including those visible through my work as a scientist. Further, they are reproducible in the sense that my contact with God has continued.

>>8809328
Of course there is such a thing as lack of information! Before decent ships were invented we had no access to other lands and couldn't have known where was left to explore (if anywhere) or who (if anyone) lived there.

>>8809357
I have contact with leprechauns, not a space wizard. Projecting your derogatory caricatures onto my experience does not invalidate it.

Also, my "hallucination" has produced tangible effects in my life, including those visible through my work as a gold miner. Further, they are reproducible in the sense that my contact with leprechauns has continued.

>prove me wrong

>>8809357
>I believe in god, not a space wizard
>God is a being who lives in space and does magic

???

>>8808492
Fully automated gay luxury space communism when?

>>8809364

>derogatory caricature of leprechauns

Where did I paint a derogatory caricature of leprechauns?

>prove you wrong

Why do I need to prove you wrong? I accept that you have claimed this experience. I weigh how much I believe that you actually experienced what you said that you experienced as a function of (a) how genuine you seem, (b) my default trust of strangers, and (c) how often I've heard others make similar claims.

Given that you're requesting that I prove you wrong, however, I have little trust in the truth of your claim; therefore it probably won't affect my current set of beliefs surrounding leprechauns.

I had contact with a space wizard

>>8809378
I've once seen a person who said: "i have evidence god exists! i felt inside that god tells me it will be raining today, and then it rained today. this means god exists!"

you sound like this person

/sci/ is getting dangerously easy to bait these days

>>8809363
You're confusing the issue by interpreting "lack of information" to mean lack of information about something too specific. For example, we had plenty of information about land we were already on, and thus reasonably assumed that the unexplored ocean contained land similar to what we had experienced.

What I'm talking about is more of a Bayesian way of looking at evidence and absence. Given a lack of evidence of some thing existing the probability of that thing not existing is higher than the probability of it not existing in general. However there is an exception to this, when lack of evidence is guaranteed. This either occurs because the existence of this thing is impossible, or because its existence directly implies that no evidence will be produced. The latter is a convenient excuse for the deist, but it renders their claim essentially meaningless to an empiricist.

>>8809369

God "lives in space" as much as I "live in space" while manipulating a sandbox environment for simulations of physical phenomena.

>>8809378
>Where did I paint a derogatory caricature of leprechauns?
I don't think you understand how satire works.

>Why do I need to prove you wrong?
You don't.

>I accept that you have claimed this experience. I weigh how much I believe that you actually experienced what you said that you experienced as a function of (a) how genuine you seem, (b) my default trust of strangers, and (c) how often I've heard others make similar claims.
Ah, so you do rationally test claims, except when it comes to god.

>>8809364
>(((leprechauns)))
Pure coincidence, sassenach.

>>8809384

I am a person who claims to have found God and who interacts with Him on a daily basis. I am also a person who can trace tangible and consistent effects in my own life back to my interactions with God.

In short, I am a person who gives testimony that he knows God. I am nothing more and nothing less.

>>8809400
I am a person who disregards such meaningless claims.

>>8809396

It is true that I rationally test all claims made to me. This, however, comes from the necessary concession that my power to test the external claims of the internal experiences of others is limited by the fact that I cannot manipulate them.

Since my experiences are my own, I have a greater capacity to test them, which I have. My own testing has led me to accept the validity of these experiences as well as the premises which they assert.

You do not share my experiences, and the most you can do is critique them from an external viewpoint, choosing to believe or disbelieve as you see fit. That you disbelieve or have distaste does not affect the fact that I have had these experiences.

>>8809404

You are free to do so. These claims, however, do have great meaning to those who have also shared my experiences.

I don't fault you for not understanding. It is your right to go at your own pace.

>>8809413
>>8809417
Oh how convenient for you. Yup, totally not deluding yourself.

>>8809424

You are correct that I am not deluding myself. As I have said, these experiences have translated to substantial effects in my own life; given that my interaction with God produces effect without fail, I have no choice (save for true delusion) but to accept that God is there.

>>8808446
Your dad is right. I fee sorry for him, having to put up with your shit.

Here's another thing. Science is FALSIFIABLE! Scientists are actually proud of this! What the fucking fuck

>>8809388
My original post was not at all wrong... you probably just misread it. I'll say it again. As per the Wikipedia article I was replying to - "absence of evidence" is a failure to find the necessary evidence to prove a claim. This failure is not "evidence of absence". It does not prove a negative. However... what the quote fails to explain is that when key situational evidence is known... lack of evidence where you would expect to find some means that it's likely it didn't happen.

>>8809400
So basically you have schizophrenia

i wish you best luck dealing it, you might want to see some help

>>8809400
So basically you have schizophrenia

i wish you best luck dealing with it, you might want to seek some help

Sometimes absence of evidence can be evidence of absence. If you do a truly exhaustive search and don't find something then it doesn't exist. It's just that when it comes to God nobody knows how to do an exhaustive search and we certainly couldn't do it even if we knew what to do.

>>8809475
You miss the point.
The absence of evidence proves that the source of the concept of a deity is someone's imagination

>>8808446
you sound like you have a big ego. no your parents aren't stupid you're stupid for not being able to counter argue and manage to make them "ohhhh interesting". you're as close minded as your parents, you just have different beliefs.

>>8809507
If you don't realize my parents are being retarded you are probably not too bright yourself. making a false equivalency between religious belief and science, and then making the retarded statement: "The problem with science is that it has theories", is retarded.

> you're as close minded as your parents, you just have different beliefs.
Okay, this confirms it. you aren't too bright, eh?
There is a sharp difference between trusting science, which is a tested methodology to understand how nature works that helps humanity evolve, and a dogmatic religious belief.

The methodology of science allows you to doubt anything and use logic and evidence to express your doubt. religion in the other hand just says: "le god exists and this is true XD please believe me! XD XD"

>>8809430
True delusion it is then.

>>8808446
>Science and Religion are incompatible.

This retarded thing again? Go read some actual theology and realize that religion is more akin to philosophy than any sort of scientific work.

FYI, any Christfag who spouts "The Bible is a scientific textbook!" is just a big a faggot.

>>8808446
[math] \Sigma_{p<2000000;\hspace{.1cm}(p-1)!=-1 (mod\hspace{.1cm} p)} p=-1/12 [/math]

Just try to prove me wrong. You literally can't

>>8809461
>"absence of evidence" is a failure to find the necessary evidence to prove a claim. This failure is not "evidence of absence".
I already explained exactly how it is. The probability of absence given failure to find evidence is equivalent to the ratio of the probability of absence to the probability of failure to find evidence. This is necessarily greater than the probability of absence (unless evidence is literally impossible), which means that failure to find evidence is evidence of absence. The "situational evidence" only effects how strong this evidence of absence is, not whether it is evidence. Hopefully you can parse this.

>>8809475
>Sometimes absence of evidence can be evidence of absence.
No, it's literally evidence of absence every time, except for when the thing existing must mean that evidence of it cannot exist. This is a mathematical truth. See >>8808616

>>8808446
>a gifted person born to stupid parents
nah, Stupidity is in your genetics. You'll realize you are not very smart when you're put in a bigger pond.

>>8809624
Religion is not akin to philosophy.
Go and join the church of the flying spaghetti monster, it's not less retarded than other religions

http://www.venganza.org/

>>8809650
My IQ is objectively way higher than their IQ.
Sometimes geniuses are born to people who are not geniuses

>>8808800
this, also nice digits

>>8809413
>experience is in any way epistemologically privileged
Fucking dropped

I was talking to my suite mate my freshman year, and his roommate came in and started bragging about his 120% yield in chem lab. My suite mate and I laugh about this still as seniors, all three of us are going to med/gradschool, but the 120% yield guy got into hopkins for his MD. MFW

>>8810261
>bragging about his 120% yield

>>8808616

Let E be the the existence of the God of Christianity.
Let X be that somebody, somewhere, claims to have spoken to God or Jesus.

P(E|X) = P(E) P(X|E) / P(X) = P(E)/P(X)

P(E)/P(X) > P(E) when P(X) != 1.

Checkmate. God's existence is a mathematical fact in your worldview.

>>8810261
jej

>>8808518
In order to know a fact, you have to believe it

>>8808454
He told you that because you shit on his beliefs. You have to understand humankind evolved alongside religion. There is beyond a reasonable doubt no almighty man in the sky, your father will most likely agree with that, but religion is a very real thing in the sense of that it is something that guided us through the world.

Atheists that shout GOD DOESNT EXIST are just as bad as religious fanatics that go around and spread the word of god.

You have to look at the bigger picture.

>>8808446

I'm working at a grocery store to help put myself through college and pay billz and sheit.

EVERY FUCKING TIME I sit down in the break room at work to do some homework (C.E. Major), people are gawking over my fucking shoulder...

>Them: "OMFGYOURAGENIOUS!!.jpg".
> Me: "Bruh, Indian kids learn this calculus shit in like... elementary school."
>Them: "HUURRRRR DURRR you is EEiiinssttteeeiiinnn!!"

It's literally just circuits and calculus.

>>8808502
maybe its a belief

>>8809400
Well... this is awkward. I am God, and Im fairly certain that I havent ever spoken to you anon. Sorry to burst your bubble like that kiddo, but it sounds like you have regular old schizophrenia.

>Also, on an unrelated note, let it be known that God frowns upon the use of apostrophes. They are the devils punctuation mark.

>parents are both climate change deniers
>they openly laugh at me for being concerned
>try to convince them but they ignore the facts
>I start breaking down last year due to concern, legit don't think we will make it to 2040
>they say stuff like 'if the climate is changing then why are indians moving here when their country would change to a colder one?'
>show them models, maps, graphs anything
>they dont listen

They fucking BULLY me for this

>start a small herb garden on my bedroom window
>come home from work one day
>dad poured vinegar all over it killing the plants
>'oh sorry son the climate changed in your room and there was acid rain!'
>they find it hilarious
>I tried to reduce my carbon footprint as much as possible
>cute girl walks past us the other day at a restaurant
>dad loudly shouts
>'DAMN SON THE CLIMATE IS CHANGING, THE TINY WOODS ARE HARDENING UP'
>they laugh

fuck them fucking idiots