/sci/ - Science & Math

Science board you fucking faggot

>>8476541

It's sad for them, but the hydroelectricity will be a huge boon for Brazil.

>>8476541
>11 GW of clean electricity and thousands of jobs in a financially desperate nation
>vs
>not forcing 10 guys to move out

lol I hope you aren't arguing against the dam.

>>8476541
Will the dam really fuck up the ecology of the area or are they just stupid?

That picture and court case are ancient history OP.

>>8476553
Dams fuck up the ecology of any region they're constructed

>>8476606
>Dams fuck up the ecology
Does rain and beavers ruin the ecology too?
Flooding an area isn't a disaster, you just make a nice lake.

Boo hoo maybe they shouldn't have got steamrolled by europeans

Brazilians are living in piss-shit-poverty, the dam will give them cheap energy, and this guy cries because he has to move some kilometres. Am I an asshole for pointing out how egoistic this guy is?

>>8476610
>flooding an area
It's a huge change to the environment.

You know, animals aren't as smart as humans, and the species tend to live worse when their habitat is changed.

>>8476610
>doesnt know hydrology

Its really nothing to do with flooding. You reduce the flow rate of the river causing upstream to form near-stagnant conditions which result high concentration of decomposing organics which release phosphates resulting in algae blooms and subsequent eutrophication of the water.

>>8476641
ok that's a valid objection, but for the record I do know hydrology and this isn't about hydrology.

>>8476641
Well, that's a legit reason to start crying.

>>8476646
Water Engineer here and I disagree. What would you say this discussion relates to

>>8476658
>Water Engineer
Ok what kind of degree is that?
A 6-month technical training in sewage treatment or something?

>>8476541

fuck indios, Calles was right to shoot them and their jesuit masters

progress cannot happen if we're unwilling to put aside ghosts and superstition, and for fuck's sake imagine all the power a hydro dam will generate compared to coal or oil which fucks up the air

>>8476661
Feel free to rip on my education all you want but I'm the only one in this thread that has posted anything with substance regarding the OP.

And if you're interested my degree is specific to water chemistry, water treatment, fluid dynamics and pressure, environmental chemistry/biology and hydrology.

>>8476661

"water engineer" = hydrologist

It's an extremely important profession, as civil engineers require accurate measurements of ground water to build the foundations of buildings and tunnels. The bigger the project, the more hydrology data is needed.

>>8476680
>as civil engineers require accurate measurements of ground water
Hydrogeologists do that.

Afaik hydrologists just deal with surface water in an academic way, and water engineers don't exist. Why do they have to rename all degrees to "engineering"? This way you can't even tell if they're real scientists or just technicians.

>>8476686
What are you on about? Engineers aren't scientists anyways. And whoever your trying to knock down seems to far-exceed your knowledge of the subject anyways, so stop crying about it.

If you literally can't engage in a discussion because you're too caught-up on professional labels you're a fucking brainlet.

>>8476686

Because the most useful skill hydrogeologists (which is the correct term) have is working for engineers.

>>8476610
Actually beaver dams do fuck shit up

T. They blew up a beaver dam behind my house as it was fucking with the salmon runs

>>8476661
>making fun of someone who works in building infrastructure
Holy shit anon how stupid can you be

>My grandfather's ranch where I used to spend my summer vacations as a child got eminent domained for a highway...

>>8476697
>>8476699
>>8476723
>That butthurt "water """"engineer"""""
kek

>>8476754
Lol. Do you have anything worth saying about the dam and it's effects, brainlet?

>have engineering degree
>hired as engineer
>work with water
>water engineer
>>8476661
>>8476686
>Queue angry anon who hasn't finished school yet

>>8476641
Geo student. There's also problems of sediment transport which destroys river deltas and builds up of sediments behind the dam.

Dams fuck shit up on a huge scale.

>>8476622
>Brazilians are living in piss-shit-poverty, the dam will give them cheap energy, and this guy cries because he has to move some kilometres. Am I an asshole for pointing out how egoistic this guy is?
it is more complex than that. Basically, the Belo Monte dam will not actually produce that much energy, it will be very expensive and it is only happening because a bunch of construction companies have been lobbying for it.

>>8476754
>If you literally can't engage in a discussion because you're too caught-up on professional labels you're a fucking brainlet.

>>8476971
>will not actually produce that much energy
isn't the capacity factor for hydro (and especially in the rainy SA) like huge? 80+%?

I'm sure corruption is rampant, but maybe this time it happens to be working towards a "good" cause.

Why don't they just set up solar panels in the north? They're a hair below the equator and could probably get just as much energy as they would from damming the amazon.

>>8476988
kys

>>8476993
Why?

>>8476978
>isn't the capacity factor for hydro (and especially in the rainy SA) like huge? 80+%?
The thing about Belo Monte is that the area, like the rest of the Amazonas, is actually pretty flat, so you end up flooding a huge area for relatively little benefit.
>I'm sure corruption is rampant, but maybe this time it happens to be working towards a "good" cause.
Believe me, that never happens.

>>8476994
Ignore this naysayer, solar panels on Brazil would make a huge difference, because Brazil has the largest equatorial area in the planet. But this tecnology still is kinda expensive for us to do it on large scale

>>8476551
it's actually 40,000 people and 1500 square km that will be flooded (plus all the other negative environmental effects beyond flooding), for electricity that can be had in much more effective (in terms of fiscal AND environmental cost)

>>8477267
>for electricity that can be had in much more effective (in terms of fiscal AND environmental cost)
how

>>8477273
See: wind energy, solar energy, tidal energy, geothermal energy

wtf

wahahahha

>>8476668
This. I'm still sore from the last time ancient cavenigger feefees foiled an observatory in Hawaii.

>>8476610
>destruction of forest
>change in flow leads to eutrophic conditions upstream
>captures sediment from upstream
>depositional processes downstream
>leads to cool water being concentrated in the lake and released downstream
>this interrupts fish spawning
>also shreds gravid fish and fry through the turbines

nah its just like beavers bro :^)

>>8478124
>the indigenous people understand any of what you just said

>>8478128
They know whats good for them and for the nature, in a very weird way
I talked to them, and they are a mix of someone veryvery dumb and someone wise

>>8477273
>how
How are you this dense?

>>8478128
>My dog isn't justified in being upset about me shitting on the floor because he doesn't know about all the reasons why shitting on the floor is bad for me too.
You are clearly brain damaged. Please kill yourself for the betterment of mankind.

>>8478124
It's also worth mentioning that a a bunch of biologists were protesting that shit too.

Apparently they're also cutting huge paths throughout the rain forest in order to run power lines. Unfortunately there are tons of species in the rain forest that refuse to cross through any open clearings, including birds. So by partitioning the forest like this they're fucking with all sorts of territorial, feeding, and migratory habits.

The biologists were arguing that this was going to make a large number of species go extinct and was in general going to fuck up the ecosystem. It was also going to fuck up a bunch of research projects because species involved were believed to be put in danger of extinction.

>>8478000
>This coming from a man whose ancestors decided to drink milk from captive animals.

Srsly bro, that's fucking weird. If that shit hadn't been invented then anyone attempting to catch an animal with the intention of milking it would be branded as a sexual deviant and charged with animal abuse. If they actually managed to collect milk for the purpose of drinking then it would end up as a gross video on liveleak right next to terrorist beheadings and gruesome car accidents.

>>8478134
>They know whats good for them and for the nature
Stop reading Iracema bro

>>8476610
>Flooding an area isn't a disaster, you just make a nice lake.
Congrats, you're retarded.

>>8478452
>shitting on the floor is bad
This is true, but the dog's belief is not justified. See: definition of knowledge

Indeed the dog would not come to that conclusion unless trained to.

The takeaway here is that muh indigenous feefees are not a real argument, irrespective of whether or not a real argument for the same position does exist.

>>8479472
The dog has it's own reasons for not wanting you to shit on the floor. Perhaps because it walks there. The point is that an argument does not have to cater to you in order for it to be justified. In fact only a complete retard would think that someone's position is not justified because it doesn't revolve around oneself.

In that situation the indigenous people have lived in that part of the jungle for untold generations and they simply don't want Brazilian assholes flooding their home and forcing them to relocate just because they can.

This is what you sound like:
>What do you mean you don't want to give me all your money. Don't you realize that by doing that I'll be much happier? Your position is simply not justified.

Kill yourself you retard.

>>8478470
cattle were probably milked way after they were domesticated, and they were domesticated for getting meat

>>8476610
Look at the Australian Murry river.
We've been stuck trying to fix this fucking thing for decades, all because we built a dam.
Nice dam though, as for the people misplaced they literally picked up their houses and moved them a mile to the side. My great uncle lived there, top funny shit.

>>8476622
OP is obviously an edgelord who likes to say "hurr progess is bad, humans are a disease like that guy said in the matrix, I'm a na'avi like in avatar and only eat organic vegan gluten free wholefoods inserted anally, give me a medal", regardless they did not seek the consent of the people affected or offered any compensation.

If you got an organ donation badge and slit your throat in front of a hospital your organs could save a couple of lives. Why don't you do this?

Ethics is more complicated than the greater good and a shitty backwards commie country like brazil isn't going to give a shit about anyone's property rights.

>>8479515
>an argument does not have to cater to you in order for it to be justified. In fact only a complete retard would think that someone's position is not justified because it doesn't revolve around oneself.
>misrepresenting my position this badly
Are you stupid, or just subversive?

>>8480698
Because this is an eminent domain issue, we can effectively interpret it by analogy with other eminent domain issues and the eminent domain precedents of various countries. Is this case substantively different from all that because muh noble savage? I don't think concluding "no" means I expect the world to revolve around me.

>>8478134
haha baka chankoro

>>8478470
i can't eat grass, but i can drink milk, and if i only have a few cattle left slaughtering them would be suicide

>>8478470
Checkmate carnists

>muh endangered species
Lotta retard animals that can't handle small changes to environment, o well cya!

>>8480720
This so much.

>>8480720
>muh speciesism

In that case we shouldn't care about you either, brainlet.

>>8480720
When aliens stumble upon the remains of humanity a thousand or so years from now, they'll be saying this in their tongue in regards to our fate.

>>8480713
>>8479581
You two are really just one step away from drinking of animal semen.

>>8480700
In order to make that argument you have to assume that the people being subjected to eminent domain are citizens of the country they inhabit and not viewed with any sort of soverignty.

It seems you've ended up with some cognitive dissonance where you're viewing two different scenarios at once for your own benefit.

From one perspective the tribesmen are Brazilian citizens and should be afforded the rights and responsibilities that come with that including being subject to eminent domain.

From the other perspective the tribesmen aren't Brazilian citizens and have soverign claim to their own land but do not need to be afforded any of the benefits of Brazilian citizenship.

So in the best case scenario you're claiming eminent domain but playing dumb about any other commitments to them. In the worst case scenario you're stealing land for your own convenience just because you can.

In either case one could try to argue that it may be legal but under no case can one argue that it is in any way moral.

>>8480720
Biodiversity makes an ecosystem more robust to changes anon. We aren't merely trying to survive one change but rather an endless sequence of changes.

What good does it do you to throw away a species just because it's not performing well in the current environment? All environments are transient and in another environment that species may be required for the survival of many others.

>>8481002
There are tons of species that we kill off just to improve living conditions
Hyper specialized species that can't exist outside of a small niche are going to die off, nothing we can do about that

>>8477324
can't store the wind

>>8476641
> You reduce the flow rate of the river causing upstream to form near-stagnant conditions

I don't get how a damn would slow down the river upstream. If I put a plug in my bathtub drain it doesn't slow down how fast water is coming out of the faucet. Can you explain hydrology to me like I'm stupid. Also isn't the point of a Hydro damn to have water go through it.

>>8476541

Are you kidding me ?

I made the exact same thread 3 years ago, with the exact same picture, the exact same intro (copy from the picture because i am not good in english) and the exact " Why are we so stupid ? ".

What. The. Fuck.

>>8481010
> what are flywheels

>>8481006
we could, you know, not destroy their habitat to begin with.

>>8481039
>>8476541

Seriously OP, i need to know why and how.

It's a repost but it's pointless here, we haven't le upvote.

>>8481039
I'm not OP but I actually recognized your post but I didn't think it was three years ago.

I've recognized a lot of other recent posts on /sci/.

I originally assumed that all of those posts were made by the same shitposter (i.e. you) and that shitposter was just having some fun by reposting their old shit. However, now that you're here saying it wasn't you, I think someone is going through the archives, looking for shitpost threads, and reposting them. I wouldn't be surprised if it had something to do with the post election surge in /pol/esmokers making Trumpfag threads.

>>8481035
Put the faucet underwater and observe that there isn't as much pressure going out and therefore the water is flowing out slower.

>>8481059
I think there's a number of bots that are digging the archives looking for successful posts relative to whatever they're trying to say (ie "liberals care about the environment too much").
It sounds like something I would do if I bothered making propaganda bots.