/sci/ - Science & Math

More than luck its just that everything was predetermined since the very beginning

That is,if we even believe that the universe has a beginning or end.

>>8349774
>life is a fucking lottery.
true but it's a lotterly because quantum uncertainty
other than that everything's determinisitic so yeah u cant even do anything about it, everything is set in stone already save for the 50/50 spin up spin down type of things

>>8349774
You could have said that with much less text.

>>8349781
>true but it's a lotterly because quantum uncertainty
Retard detected.

>>8349781
>quantum X
>:(

>>8349780
>everything was predetermined since the very beginning
Retard detected. Show proof or BTFO.

>Born in poor family
>Born with shit memory genes
>Born with depression all around me

Still managed to be get a degree in physics and gain 70k/year.

It's about who fight more

>>8349791
>anecdote

I bet you're actually convinced this is the case

>>8349774
There's no "good genes" or "bad genes". Only genes, which can make you fit in a certain environment, or unfit. If you're not successful in your current environment, maybe you should go somewhere else and do something else.

>>8349797
Some group of genes are objectively "better" at creating machines that can thrive, a mentally retarded person with a leg growing on is back is less able to thrive in almost all environments than a 140 iq 6'3 ALPHA MEGA CHAD, both their predicaments are almost entirely based on how lucky they were in the genetic lottery.

Really hope assisted suicide is legalized soon.

>>8349809
>Some group of genes are objectively "better" at creating machines that can thrive, a mentally retarded person with a leg growing on is back is less able to thrive in almost all environments than a 140 iq 6'3 ALPHA MEGA CHAD, both their predicaments are almost entirely based on how lucky they were in the genetic lottery.
Indeed. Also, in any case, being in an environment where your specific set of genes is favored is entirely to do with luck. And you're better than some people with different sets of genes in that environment? So what? You weren't even responsible for that so fuck it.

Life, if it were the result of some intelligent act or desire, must surely be a cruel joke performed on those subjected to it.

>>8349816
>Life, if it were the result of some intelligent act or desire, must surely be a cruel joke performed on those subjected to it.
Do humans get the shitty or the good end of the stick by being able to realize this fact?
Would it not be better to suffer a deplorable fate ignorant of how bad it truly is?

>>8349774
"If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide"

>>8349825
That's my favorite Titus Andronicus song!

>>8349825
>As freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide"
It's funny that most philosophers that deal with the matter of suicide come to reject it.. Obviously because the people who don't probably aren't around long enough to tell of their findings.

>>8349831
kek a natural selection of philosophy.

>>8349834
Indeed. It's like how religions that are opposed to spreading themselves are fairly rare to completely nonexistent in the grand scheme of things. Like all the religious prophets/seers or whatever you know of, they all had some epiphany and decided they had to share it, and the people they told decided they had to share it too. Because if they didn't, you wouldn't know about it. Almost analogous to the anthropic principle.

>>8349774
>life is a lottery

Do you believe in a soul OP? If humanity learned how to make a conscious AI. And then made an AI that is in a permanent state of happiness. Would that AI be lucky?

>>8349849
No, existence is suffering anon.

>>8349783
>what r superpositions????
brainlet detected

>>8349849
>Do you believe in a soul OP
No

> If humanity learned how to make a conscious AI. And then made an AI that is in a permanent state of happiness. Would that AI be lucky?

I would rather be the AI than me right now, so i'd personally say yes.

>>8349873
>No

They way you wrote it though seems like you think that there is a way your "soul" could have ended in a different body. That you could have been this guy with a 200 IQ who is also good looking and will inherit billions.

That wouldn't be you though. You are you because of your body. Envy is stupid. You might as well envy your computer or a bird.

>>8349879
Well, death seems better than accepting the fact that you were fucked from the start and there's nothing you can do about it.

>>8349879
>They way you wrote it though seems like you think that there is a way your "soul" could have ended in a different body.
No the way he wrote it was that you have no control over who you're born as, and this sucks since you're potentially subjected to a shitty life through no fault of your own. This is true irrespective of souls.

>>8349812
>he needs assistance to commit suicide
Kys anon

>>8349774
While this mindset is the closest to the truth, it's also a lot more dangerous than honestly believing that everyone can be great through hard work (though what one believes is also dependent on genes and environment).

>>8349892
He's trying to m8

>>8349774
I guess this is why I'm a libfag. The selfish part of me wants to say "I earned this, this is mine, fuck off and get your own shit". But I'm really just operating to the best of my prescribed abilities in a prescribed environment, I'm really just lucky/privileged. It's hard to say I "earned" it when I make more money and do less work than a lot of other people. It's kind of fucked when I think about it, the market says an hour of my life is worth $X0/hr and someone who busts their ass twice as hard makes minimum wage, my entire existence is literally worth more than someone else's for a reasons neither of us can control.

>>8349774
yeah, no

>>8349783
>Takes the bait
Retard detected

>>8349920
Why don't you tell us the way it really is then?

>>8349774
You are absolved of responsibility.

Do you feel better? Now you know its all luck you can try to improve your odds for better success in the future. Prepare yourself to be ready at the right time and place to take advantage of random chance.

>>8349791
>born in a poor family too(divorced parents)
>ultra-bad concentration
>depression/anxiety cycle almost every week for 4 years
>literally started and tried to change +1000 times in less than 2 years
>Finally learnt how to make a habit and control my mind more
Got fit, thus more mentally stable, started planning and having a future in mind(like never before), also I got rid of my social anxiety. I learnt how to avoid getting depressed and do the same with anxiety with more success rate.

I can confirm: It's about who fights more.

>>8349809
Only if you imply better=more fit
>>8349774
>a is determined by b
>and b is determined by luck
Cry more ;^=)

>>8349898
I sometimes find myself being kept up at night, wondering if it's better to tell people convenient lives for their betterment, or ratify their entire perspective on things with the small chance that they can bounce back from it.

Provided they aren't defaulting to the mechanisms that brought us community, solidarity, and security, so to be standing here now.

I just don't know about the ivory tower.

>>8349938
because i dont want to waste my energy on idiots

>>8349951
It's never binary.

>>8349949
>it's about who fights more

Are you responsible for the fact that you weren't born a retard? this would've completely eliminated any possibility of success through "hard work".

I want a yes or no

>>8349955
Guess not, but it would ensure that I could better react to every other person (and thus get things done and quit obsessing over not being "normal") if I could rationalize to myself about what the overall best method would be, and get on with it.

Instead of taking the time to methodically take apart every person I meet, including struggling with those who are complete wildcards, fickle and possibly slightly insane.

>>8349964
How do I know I'm not a retard?
Should I check If I have an anomaly in my brain?
Should I check I've got an extra chromosome?
Should I use the pseudoscience methods?

>>8350085
This link has the information you're looking for

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=How+do+you+check+to+see+if+you%27re+retarded

>>8349774
What cards you were dealt doesn't matter as much as you think. If you put in the time and effort, you'll find a game where the shitty cards you have is a pretty decent hand.

>>8350093
>if you have down syndrome
>eliminated every possibility of success
That depends on what does "success" mean for you.

>>8349809
At higher levels of IQ, you're more likely to be more, and more retarded. Alpha Mega chads, creating subpar kids/children is common. Look at most outliers who create kids who're average, or even subpar.

What I wonder about is how much of a change can you make? How much can you go against your biology?

I mean could I theoretically keep studying 16 hours a day every day? If I get tired could I ignore the fatigue and keep studying? What exactly prevents me from doing it?

What use is learning all that math if it doesn't fill the void in your heart?

>>8350141
Just get a pet to fill that void.

>>8350124
if you're smart you only study about 6 hours a day any more will do the opposite of good. You're brain also needs a lot of rest and good nutrition. Social contact and having fun is also important so some leisure an active sex life and doing things you like will probably be more beneficial then force feeding yourself data.

>>8350159
What I mean is how much can you push against your discomfort? What are the limits to this ability? Why do I give up so fast? What gives others the ability to endure longer?

>>8349791
>high iq
>born to shit family
>abused to the brink of a breakdown
>shit secondary education
>worked myself to the bone in college to make up for bad parenting decisions
>got sick
>family told me to go fuck myself
........... i didn't ask for this.

>>8350164
you really don't want to, working hard is a meme.
OP is right, most of life is luck. what you do with your circumstances is only a small part of the equation. to view it any other way is crazymaking!

>dumb
>lazy but i really am doing my best
>still mediocre at most
i didnt ask for this

>tfw dumb but lazy

>>8350110
The way and the much you think are determinated by your genes. The much of effort you can put are determinate by your resistance, determination, insistance, willpower, etc. Which is determinated by your genes... And you can even drink coffee to stay wake longer, but the coffee you have is determinated by your necessity of it, or the ammount of money you have, which is determinated by your job or something like that, which is determinated by your inteligence, or whatever are the qualifications for it, or by the ammount of EFFORT you put to get it.. So, yeah, everything in your life is, in a very basically way, predeterminated by your genes, and there's nothing you can do about it with your boring and dumb speach about effort and hard work...

>>8350188
>everything is determined
Implying this, it's no use to speculate personally about one's self capacity and "destiny" if the faggot isn't even doing it right.

>can't derive mentally
>studies integrals 10 hours a day
>Why is this shit so hard?
Science and math need two Solid requisites:
-Master Arithmetics
-Master Pre-Algebra
Problems need an effective and generally different POV frame for each student.

>>8350207
This is my first post in this place, the green stuff are like "subliminal thins" you're telling me? I'm new on this place, so I'm still trying to understand most of the posts, besides the obvious information in black...

>>8350247
>everything is determined
This green text represents a resume of your post
>can't...
This is a narration, or an example of an upcoming conclusion/explanation.

>>8349910
damn anon that's some impressive levels of empathy. not many people who make a lot of money think this way

>>8349774
>Prove me wrong
No need, you're right. However, your lottery ticket isn't worth shit if you don't get off your ass to go pick up your prize.

>>8349910
>selfish part
Do you mean, the justice part?
> But I'm really just operating to the best of my prescribed abilities in a prescribed environment
How do you know that?
>It's hard to say I "earned" it when I make more money and do less work than a lot of other people.
It's simple. A lot of people can study for 1 year every day something and successfully learn it. They prefer to spend 2 hours a day watching TV or some unproductive shit.
Also, why do you have to say it?
Do you mean, on public?
Around not-successful people?
>my entire existence is literally worth more than someone else's
That's relative.
>neither of us can control
So, you gave up.

>>8349774
its either APLHA genetics or BETA results

>>8349791
>It's about who fight more

this faggot knows

you can whine all you fucking want, but if you don't really want it, you'll be shit all your life

>>8349774
Nothing at all to do with luck.

Luck is what losers believe in. Hard work is what winners believe in. This is empirical fact so, might want to consider that.

luck doesn't exist fuccboi

>>8349774
yes its a lottery now man up and play with the hand you've been dealt.

>>8349791
what field u working in? just graduated in physics, and failed to get a job in software consulting.

what areas of buisness can actually use the skills of a physicist?

>>8349774
good genes in a shitty environment, doesnt change the fact its a shitty environment, shitty people will be the higher ups as well, and ou can get fucked because of others limited understanding

>>8351500
so you studied physics to work as a programmer and are wondering about business opportunities

maybe you chose the wrong career path?

>>8351507
I studied physics for pure interest and to learn what i thought were valuable skills.
I want to work in industry. I would love to use my core learning, but i dont know where to turn to for a decent living.
I was not thinking of it until they contacted me personally. STEM is a go to basket for dev ops i think.
They claimed to train candidates, but i feel it was my lack of Java and other hard languages that held me back.
Fucking kek is that my roomie (sociology undergrad who converted to a masters in IT fields) applied after me and got the offer.
he spent one year doing Java and Python.
im happy for him because he really knew he wanted it. i was unsure and fucked the interview as a result. so i guess i actually fucked it because i thought it was a wrong path. i am 23 he is 25. i feel like at 25 i would be more ready to commit to that sort of thing.

anyone really feel that starting in industry young is the way to go. are the 9-5 blues worth the wage packet?
How get qualified in Java c++?
is self taught good enough?

>>8349774
Stop being a fucking retard, diverting your laziness onto 'circumstance'.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

-Reinhold Niebuhr

>>8351482
>>8351483
>>8351489
>>8351528
I hope you retards aren't actually being serious.

The fact that the environment disfavors sets of genes that produce lazy machines while favoring sets of genes that produce machines with "persistence" means being born with sets of genes that produce "laziness" is bad luck because you could've been born with a set of genes that produce machines with "persistence" which would've increased your chances of thriving in the environment.

>>8351853
as another anon has already says, you're born and you either have sets of genes that are favored by the environment or you don't

>>8351862
>as another anon has already says, you're born and you either have sets of genes that are favored by the environment or you don't
>it's 50-50, either it happens or it doesn't
REEEEEEEEEEEE

>>8351868
Is that false? if you're born with a disease that kills you after 10 minutes, then weren't you born with a set of genes that are not favored by the environment? is the kid that was wasn't born with the sets of genes that cause the death of that machine shorty after birth responsible for the fact he wasn't born with those genes?

Working hard is too hard lads.

>>8349791
>born American
>HURR DURR LOOK WHAT I ACCOMPLISHED
weak bait

>>8349774
ITT 12 year old manlet is sad about life.

>>8351910
Here's a (you) for effort, you'll be funny one day.

If we suppose you're correct, the question is, what then?

Will you just waddle in self-pity for the rest of your days; trapped in an imagined bubble limiting your potential?

You have to try to make something of yourself, no matter the hand you were dealt. Complacency is your enemy. There is, of course, elements of luck to anything in life, but I promise you working hard AND working smart will get you where you want to be.

Achieving your goals in real life is the most fulfilling thing you can do, so do it. Whatever it takes, if you accept your current circumstances but you're not happy with them and you won't do anything to change them, then you may as well be dead.

>>8352331
>hard AND working smart will get you where you want to be.

How can i work hard and smart if i have a set of genes that create an unintelligent and lazy machine?

>>8352383
Someone answer this.

>>8352383
By working harder than those that have better genes than you but are lazy. They have a higher potential but rarely reach it. There's no reason for anyone that cares to make less than 50k a year eventually.

>>8352493
>By working harder

But how do you do this? This is the core of the question. You seem to imply that you can ignore all your mental limitations and become driven even though you were lazy all your life.

>>8352690
By replacing bad habits with good ones trough repetition.

>>8352723
being able to replace bad habits is dependent on the set of genes you posses, a retard has a set of genes that makes him/her unable to do certain things.

intelligent people have a set of genes that allows them to process information in ways that unintelligent people who don't posses these sets of genes are unable to.

>>8352872
So fucking tired of reading bullshit like this from lazy fedora tippers. Never was persistent in all his life and blames everything on his genetics. Fuck outta here, lardass.

>>8349774
>Life is ENTIRELY dependent on luck
You should watch this OP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOlcB-JxkFw

Fight for your success.

>>8352880
>and blames everything on his genetics

This is /sci/. Genetics and your environment, two things out of your control, make who you are. Do you believe in a soul or something?

>>8353004
You can change your environment. Not always, but for alot of people.

>>8353009
>You can change your environment

By then it's too late already. I meant the environment you grew up in.

>>8352880
But anon, everything is about genetics and environment.

>Never was persistent in all his life and blames everything on his genetics


are you implying people have free will?

>>8353004
And? What is stopping you to use that set of cards you were dealt and making most out of it? Truth be told you're already extremely well off if you're in a first world country and have internet access around the clock.

>>8353025
This doesn't really change the fact that environment and your genes pretty much determine everything about you.

>>8353025
>And? What is stopping you to use that set of cards you were dealt and making most out of it?

I am always tired. I find it hard to focus. There is a limit to being able to concentrate despite physical and mental discomfort.

I have a hard time understanding difficult concepts. I often need to be hand-held through solutions to every problem.

I think slower than others.

I am unable to come up with unique ideas.

>>8353024
>I didn't chose to become a degenerate who jerks off to drawings of alien girls
Whatever you tell yourself to sleep tonight.

>>8353042
Was going to call you a retard, but i can't hold you accountable for your belief in free will.

>>8353042
if you could choose to be whoever you want to be why wouldn't everyone choose to be successful? Why do people choose to work for minimum wage?

>>8353035
Work out, eat well and meditate to feel less tired and to raise your focus and concentration. Everyone has a hard time understanding difficult concepts, no need to feel inferior because underage anonymous people tell you otherwise. Who gives a fuck that you think slow? In this day and age you get enough time, you just need to use it.
To be creative change your pace regularly and try new things out.
>>8353057
Because working hard is hard. The later you start the more anxious you get about starting. If you already are worried in your twenties for your late start and poor education, how much a 40 year old and even older people feel? At some point acceptance for stagnation sets in and that's when you're done.

>>8353067
>Because working hard is hard.

But if it's equally hard why do some people choose to work and others don't?

>>8353073
It's not equally hard. Just doing some regular job is not hard at all. Trying to improve yourself is extremely hard, you need to conquer all your fears, challenge yourself and develop the right mindset. Even with the information available improving yourself is a lonely task. You're pretty much all on your own and you're completely confronted with yourself and escape means stagnation.

You feel overwhelmed, you have no confidence in the things you're trying since results will always be delayed.

Changing yourself is ridiculously hard.

>>8349787
again it is and it isnt. the probabilty things seem random but happen the way they do because of initial conditions, if we were to change said conditions things would happen differently. is predermination exists in a purely theoretical mathematical sense, but it exists

>>8349791
fucking brainlet can't comprehend more than
>muh senpai
>muh genes
>muh depression
the people you met, and time, and place you met, every little accident you had at just the right time has led to you "having a phys degree and gaining """"70k/year""""""

>>8351500
You got physics degree and work in software?
Dude, that's not the right place. There are many other stuff to do with physics major, or you can just do extra 2 years of masters and get a great engineer job
>>8351906
I was born in a third world country, Moroccan to be precise.
I took a huge loan on me when I finished high-school, and my vision was way higher than other friends at the time.
>>8353872
My elder brother works in a taxi, and other brother is an English teacher in home country.
Friends who were in high school with me are either unemployed or teacher some are doctors.
Even though I was young, mother illiterate and father don't care about me. I was very passionate and had a far vision about my future, I suffered a lot and had a lot of depressed times.
But here I am.

Don't make excuses

>>8353084
This. It's hard. But it feels great.

Everytime you tell yourself:"It's hard, I can't" You are just sabotaging yourself. The easiest habits you can make, are physicals. The hardest habits you need to make are the mental and emotional ones. The only way to know if it's right what you are thinking and doing now, is literally failing and learning without lying yourself.

I was a degenerate isolated weeb for 4 years. I literally watched almost 300 anime in less than a year. I watched that shit overnight. Fapped 5 times a day, sometimes to 8. My parents wouldn't educate me. Failed at Bachillerato.

Now, I'm 19 and I got rid of my social anxiety. Got more fit. I started to study. It's nothing compared to the minimum "happiness" of not making any effort. Every time you "break your limits", in other words, you overcome your expectatives, fears and beliefs, there is a feeling of omnipotence and tranquility.

Good luck.

>>8349791
tbqh if you achieved that your genes are not "shit", friendo

There are 3 kind of people ITT:
1º Babies
>"I can't!", "It's in my genes!", "I could do it if my genes..."
2º Progress people
>"You can do it if you try harder and do this."
3º Literal retards who can't guess the context
>"No, everything is determined. There is no free will!"

>>8354398
>An action will determine your genes
Pseudoscience fags, everyone. I bet you believe on IQ.
KEK

>>8354402
I can understand why you want to believe you succeed because of hard work, but let me ask you this, would you have gone as far as you did had you been born with a fatal genetic disease? did "you" choose to not be born with a fatal genetic disease? of course not, your success in life is dude to the the genes you have and don't have and their reaction with the environment.

If you didn't choose where you were born, what genes you were born with, and whether or not the environment you were born in favored you set of genes or not, your success in that environment was based on being lucky, if someone dies because they were born with a fatal genetic disease we don't say it was because they didn't work hard, but if someone succeeds in life because their set of genes are favored by the environment genetics no longer plays a big role.

>Despite problems with family and traveling all over yurop without a cent in my pocket I live unstable but okay life
>It might all go away any day
>Have nothing, do nothing, don't plan to do anything in the future either
>No education or job
>Live only today and never think of tomorrow

Thug lief m8s I might end up on the streets but as long a person is not addicted to anything, one can manage. btw I'm posting from stolen wifi right now aswell.

>>8354456
>everyone who succeed has great genes
Again?
You will never know if you are able to succeed until you try it. Tip: Being successful=/=Being born with a million dollars; being successful means, you fail, you try again.

>>8354512
>everyone who succeed has great genes

No, every that succeeds has genes that are favored by the environment, if they didn't they'ed be FUCKING DEAD.

Some people however have genes that coupled with the environment they're allows them to prosper in that environment in ways others who have a different set of genes are unable to.

>>8349774
You have free will to help chose your own future

You are influenced by your genetics
You are influenced by your environment
You are also influenced by yourself

>>8349774
ok and now the bad environment, good genes vs. good environment, bad genes comparison

who has more opportunities

not so easy anymore now isnt it

>>8354400
And what kind they are is genetic.

Just look up some studies and you will see that these traits manifest very early. Before people become aware enough to attempt to aquire these traits themselves. And changing yourself as an adult is very hard. And I believe that not everyone has the equal ability to change. Some can make a 180° turn in adulthood and some can't. Although I do admit that there is no way to know unless you try. And you should keep trying even if you fail.

>You have free will to help chose your own future

how does free will work?

If the universe is deterministic, there's no free will, if the universe is random, there's no free will, if the universe is a combination of both, there's still no free will, what kind of universe allows for the existence of free will?

>>8349774

Even luck is a biased perspective towards sentience. All things are chance.

life is a joke, not a lottery u fucking nerd

The trick is in learning how to see the humor

>>8349774
Obviously you're not winning if you're lamenting this.

>>8355708

>Obviously you're not winning if you're lamenting this.

correct

>>8355695

I force myself to laugh whenever it reoccurs to me how shit life is, don't know if that's normal or i'm going insane.

>>8349774
There is no inherent notion of "fairness" in the universe, it's just a lie we propagated to feel better about things. Most people have shitty lives (relatively speaking) and it's hard to make an argument that they deserve it.

You can still make the most of things and live a good life (relatively speaking) as long as you don't sit around waiting for some sort of karma or justice.

Sometimes we get better than we deserve, too. Take a moment to marvel at the invention of the internet we have been gifted with.

>>8349774
It's called "survival" you massive faggot. No one chooses how they start, but you can choose to fight back against life and grind your way to success. I don't deny I harbor deep rage and resentment against the hand I was dealt in life, but I use that shit to fuel my drive to the top and to push aside worthless weaklings who failed to take advantage of their better start. Birth is only the beginning anon, you've got 60 years to claim your own niche and rise above plebian status. Fight.

>>8349781
>sophistry: the post

>>8349774

If you have good genes theres still hope tho, look at Ramanujan. Tho if you have (bad, bad) youre fucked good bye m8

>>8354512

Name one down syndrome person who achieved anything past addition in math.

>>8352983
>hurrr networking made me who I am today
No fucking shit Sherlock.
wasted 50 minutes on something i realized long time ago.

>>8349774
>Blaming your personal shortcomings on variable outside of your control, when there are very realistic variable that are inside of your control
Growth mindset, bitch. It exists.

>>8349774

Life is not a lottery. If it's "success" which you are after in any sense, then life is about learning how to encourage those with money and power to help you and maybe more importantly how to avoid stepping on their toes.

>>8356890
Doesn't really change anything, are the people that have a growth mindset responsible for the fact that they have the ability to do so? no, they didn't choose to not be born with down syndrome, the fact that they even have the ability to adopt a growth mindset is due to variables outside their control.

>>8355238
We humans are the glitch in the matrix

>>8349787
Look at the universe as a static 4d object. The 4th dimentional axis is time. Due to our subjective view being controlled by electrical signals traveling across brain cells at a constant rate, it's impossible for "us" to view it as 4th dimentional. The only real moment is now, everything else is a thought generated by your brain in the now. The universe is basically doing everything at once all the time. Feel good to exist in times where we can study what "we" are effectively.

>>8357191
One may argue that simply knowing that there is such a thing as a growth mindset, is enough to give them the freedom to choose whether or not to have it.
Mind-over-matter and all that.

>>8357320
>One may argue that simply knowing that there is such a thing as a growth mindset, is enough to give them the freedom to choose whether or not to have it.

That would imply they have free will.

>>8357334
That's stupid, no it doesn't imply that. They'll make a choice, but the choice is determined by the forces of the universe. Which, in a way, is "you", if you want to call the awareness of your thoughts "you".

>>8357381
They never make a choice, they just do what they were always going to do.

"Free will" implies a separation of you from the universe.
What you do affects the universe, and what the universe does, affects you.
>you're an equal part of the universe
>Will
Will against what? For what? For what reason? What do you mean by "you" having free will? The brain is a complex system and likes to refer to itself as a cohesive unit. It's still made up of smaller parts, trillions of cells, but there's no actual entity there. A system of electrical pulses and chemical reactions. A beautiful system, but one driven by the same forces that drive all of that around us. We're machines that hate being machines for some reason. Like we could ever even exist in any other form.

>>8357396
Well, from their perspective it's a choice. To do what was always going to happen, you need to forget about the fact that it was always going to happen.

>>8357411
>you need to forget about the fact that it was always going to happen

>>8349774
Probability is just a heuristic we use for the unknown

Your "Luck"/probabilty statement essentially boils down to:

"Life is dependent on stuff we don't fully understand"

If you knew the conditions behind a dice roll, it wouldn't be probabilistic.
I mean, someone could run a physics simulation and get the correct result for the roll, but its tedious..the "luck/uncertainty" disappears

TL;DR you are considering luck what is just deterministic but inconvenient to calculate

>inb4 muh quanta
Still deterministic, just not to an observer

>>8349791
>stupid
>ugly
>manlet
>born to wealthy parents
>don't have to work a single day in my life

Sitting at home learning various things is quite comfy.

>>8355159
>everyone that succeeds has genes x
>environment decides the genes-type of deduction
Keep deluding yourself.
>>8356415
What does this have to do with anything I said?

>>8349791
The fact that you consider 70k/year a high achievement tells us that yes, it's really all about your upbringing.

>>8354331
>I took a huge loan on me when I finished high-school
Using which guarantee?

>>8359599
>not 1000k/year
Peasants

>>8351528
Working hard is genetic, it's all in the hormones. Even things like charisma are mostly genetic as well.

>>8359608
Read the context dumbass.

There was really only one genetic lottery winner, the rest are just consolation prizes.

>>8359637
No need to live anymore. Kill me now. ;^=)

>>8351528
But this is the case only if you actually want to degrade yourself to join rat race for more money (beacuse success in this world is only related to money).

Also
>implying einstein,tesla,gauss were just persistent

You can be persistent to discover some new shit but you will never get anywhere if you actually dont understand and feel it

>>8359608
It's learnable which countless studies on habit proved so it doesn't really matter.

>>8359649
>success=money
You said it.

You need money to live and surpass yourself. What else? Money is a requisite, not an end.

>>8349791
>bragging about 70k/year

>>8359864
bet you haven't risen above your given station in life.

no matter what you're a bitch for bitching either way.

you don't have to be alive, just kill yourself.
or do you like to pussy out and come here bitching to people that you should know don't give a shit.

>>8351526
Its all about how much effort you put in. From the way you say it, youre not even fucking trying. suck up you sorry ass and start doing, dont complain. And studying physics and applying for something unrelated is pure idiocy. Go for engineering, ffs

>>8353057
"if i can choose to be a billionaire why wouldnt i become so? FREE WILL IS FAKE!" -anon who sits infront of the computer all day shitposting on 4chan

>>8353073
>>8353035
>>8353004
>>8352872
>>8352383
>>8351853
>>8349774
Freewill might be real or not, dont fucking care, we cant do anything about it anyway. WORK FOR IT you lazy fatass. Get up from that fucking chair, DO something, anything, that makes you feel that you've gotten something out of life. Make a goal, aim for it, dont fucking care what it is. Get a grill, build a house, i dotn know, fly to moon for all i care. Do something for that sake, that stupid dreams of yours. WORK. Thats the only fucking way to get it faggots

>>8359649
From a book ive read before: There are normal people, and then there's the geniuses born with talent. The talented's responsibility is to raise humanity towards a higher platform, while the normal people's is supporting these geniuses.

You may not get anywhere, but responsibility and work done is relative. Those so called successful and geniuses are expected to do so much more than normal people, while the normal ones are expected less. So please dont compare the rewards and say, "they are so easy-going and get everything in their life easily" Youre forgetting to look at the things they had to do to achieve so.

>>8349774
>Life is ENTIRELY dependent on luck
>"no free will" faggots literally think this.

>>8349774
>final uni exam in an hour
>maxillofacial surgery
>exams were clusterfuck
>no textbooks it as up to us to find material and study
>have some luck and pass them
>barley have any clinical practice
>go and ask the professor yesterday about the final exam
>uhhh yeah you will have practical exam in 9AM with some of my colleagues and them I will question you after i finish my lectures at 12PM
>havent slept all night
>wake up at 5am
>study a little
>cry a lot
>cry some more
>want to call my mother at least to hear here voice
>I know that i dont stand a chance
>if i fail i will have to wait another 3 months for another chance and another 6 to begin my residency
>basically sink or swim
>chances are very slim to pass
>probably gonna end myself later today
have a laugh at my account.
i know people that passed this exam with knowing nothing,or having the luck professor not to ask them anything and chit chat for 2 hours.
Talk about not having luck

>>8360138
>he doesn't see the virtues of idleness
>he subscribes to the protestant work ethic

>>8360254
Alright I have to go now anons,it was fun spending time here.
see you all at the gates of Valhalla.

>>8349787
You only typed that comment because your nature was nurtured to.

>>8350170
never speak to the family again. They are not worth it build a new one.

>>8360278

Når du ved Helgrindi står
og når du laus deg må riva
skal eg fylgje deg
over Gjallarbrua med min song

>>8360263
>if I categorize it maybe it will go away
Keep deluding yourself.
No action = No improvement

>>8360506
But what causes the action?

>>8360254
>medcucks

ITT sissy faggots in their twenties who search for an excuse for everything and never take any responsibility.

There are people that are paralyzed from the neck down or are literally blind and still become great artists. Meanwhile you cry yourself to sleep after trying for 5 minutes and failing, blaming the world for not being gifted the skills on a silver plate. After all it's safe in your bubble. When you do nothing you can't get hurt.

>>8360680
>When you do nothing you can't get hurt
What causes them to do nothing?

>>8360688
Jerking off to chinese drawings of alien girls.

>>8360691
What causes them to jerk off to chinese drawings of alien girls?

>>8360692
Boredom of not doing anything mentally challenging.

>>8360696
What causes them to not do anything mentally challenging?

>>8349791
Thats called luck anon.

If I get a 23andme kit and get my genes sequenced, could that provide some insight into what kind of career I would be best suited for, or at the very least what kinds of tasks I would do best?

>>8360698
Literally 4 year old child who can't think for himself.

>>8360728
What causes them to be like a 4 year old child who can't think for himself?

>>8360729
Will you do this as long as you hear the words genetics?

Tired of talking to argumentum a priori fedora tippers.

>>8360731
>criticizes a priori arguments
>makes one himself

>>8360625
What action?

>>8360688
Science doesn't know how to make you move your ass from the armchair.

Are you gonna wait for a pill that makes you move or something?
>>8360786
>yo too
Which can't validate your apriori arguments.

>>8349795
It actually doesn't matter if it's anecdotal. It happening only once already disproves the "you have no control over you life, everything is a lottery" notion. He's right.

>>8360820
>once
It literally happens everyday everywhere, nigger.

Go ask anyone who radically changed his life, I bet this frogtard thinks all of them have high IQ.

Losers hate reading/hearing the truth about their excuses, because their comfort zone is in danger.

Keep deluding yourselves.

>>8357405
>Like we could ever even exist in any other form.
:'(

stop bumping this cuck's thread

>>8349774
>has the capacity to see how everything is linked together
>instead of realizing this means that he can figure out how to manipulate the world to his advantage, takes the opposite approach that it in fact, all beyond his control
If you were in a 3rd world shithole with no education, or trapped in North Korea, I could almost understand how you would feel that way. But I don't believe that is the case here.

You're a fool.
But you can change, if you find the will to do so.

I literally procrastinated for 10+ years till I trained myself to be persistent and doing something. It just took like half a year of work to come to a level where I can work 6 hours daily consistently without any unproductive thoughts like "I would love to do something else right now" that would ruin my performance and concentration.

I would say that I was a way worse procrastinator than average. I needed to redo two years of school because I daydreamed during class and never put even a minute into homework or doing anything at all. I fucked tons of things up for my future just by being extremely lazy and not doing some easy stuff I could finish in an hour and be done with it.

I'm not saying that you can do it because I can do it since you can easily spend all your life procrastinating. I'm 21 now and I spent the last 5 years saying every night that I will start tomorrow. After all that happened I'm just happy that I got my ass up relatively early. I can still spend my youth working hard.

It's either irony or parapraxis that you misspelled "doled" as "dulled."

>>8360938
>I'm not saying that you can do it because I can do it since you can easily spend all your life procrastinating. I'm 21 now and I spent the last 5 years saying every night that I will start tomorrow. After all that happened I'm just happy that I got my ass up relatively early. I can still spend my youth working hard.
You are literally me.
>I would say that I was a way worse procrastinator than average.
I remember delaying everything I did back then. My highschool was 50 metters away from my house, but I always was late.

Change habits->Change results

>leave /r9k/ because feels
>feel even more shut now

:^(

>>8361023
>I got rid of one of my numerous problems, why cant I be happy?
You better kill yourself frogtard.

>>8359900
Overcoming your survival instinct isn't easy.

>just kill yourself

I will

>>8349774
Please stop posting White Supremacy Frog.

The ironic thing about this thread is that we were all predestined the write the replies we wrote.

It's funny to think that people who believe in free will don't believe in free will of their own free will, just like people who don't believe in free will don't do so of their own free will.

I can see how a belief in free will results in a human that's more able to improve than one that doesn't believe in free will.

>>8361432
I feel like this awareness of the non-freedom of will ruined my productivity.

Normal person: I am having difficulties with this. I should try harder!
Me: I am having difficulities with this. I guess I just have bad genetics.

>>8361439

Genetics don't "purely" determine your "ability" in a deterministic universe. Your brain cells process information in a deterministic pattern, and form connections and lose connections based on their activity.

Genetics essentially give you the template for simple pattern formation, and experience perfects those patterns. If you can read, type with ease, write on paper, play a sport, or whatever; it's a product of refinement of brain cell networks.

If you ever look at an accomplished scientist from history you'll see they worked a lot, Einstein, for example, believed in a kind of determinism and studied math independently in his free time and holidays, he was working on his unified field theory on his death bed.

>>8361493
>studied math independently in his free time and holidays
As a teenager

>>8361432
>free will
What is free will?

How low level fags who don't even have 10 years of experience of the subject they're talking about under their belt think they know shit. It's like when NEET trash that jerks off and plays video games all day acts all intelligent and superior. Probably because they're the same kind of people.

>>8361498
Literally me. Go practice what he practiced as a teenager.

>>8361644
I don't know shit, man. Calm down.
I just told a guy how I overcame depression and anxiety.

the real kick in the nuts is that there is no free will.

The real bad thing is when you just want to have a shallow life as a 10/10 Chad with tons of sex instead of building your mental skills.

>>8349774
>ENTIRELY
Not entirely. You still decide what to do.

>>8349774
Yeah.

But it is also true that you're conditioned to want the things you want in life. You'd be surprised how easy it is to reprogram your desires.

Also realize that there is nothing inherently honourable or thoroughly desirable in life, so that anything you want you can also be without.

>>8361675
Teach me famalan. How do I reprogram my desires. I genuinely want to learn, I'm not like the punks here that go trough the edgy years of their puberty.

>>8361657
>I want to be like him!
Then go for it.
>>8361675
>You'd be surprised how easy it is to reprogram your desires.
It's not. When you have been living like shit your whole life, all of your loser memories will make up excuses so you can't change. You need use your consciousness to "kill" every loser thought.

>Also realize that there is nothing inherently honourable or thoroughly desirable in life
I don't know but I think I that I want to be the best version of myself.

stop bumping this idiot's thread

sage

>>8361691
Realize the arbitrariness first. Then comes training.

Then you also gotta realize that the biggest factor in your feeling down is the shame of feeling inferior to those who have it better and that you have it worse.

What are your innermost desires? What are you jealous for?

Also meditate a lot. Think to yourself that you don't need it and realize that a lot of this is not genuine desire, it is more of a desire for a desire. You're hoping that you will achieve lasting peace of mind and happiness through some magical thing that will most likely be plained out on the hedonic treadmill like everything else.

You can easily reprogram them, but it's gonna take a while.

>>8361691
Not him, but NLP association method is used by many therapists and it gives you excellent results.
It's a complex process though.

The other method that I'm using right now, is the repetition and habits.

>>8361693
Bruh. I've been through chemo at age 14, I have severe bipolar disorder coupled with an inferiority complex thanks to neglect from my parents. Severe neglect and borderline abuse from my father that fucked up my social life and I've never had a gf (age 20 now). I've attempted suicide 3 times and I have (had?) a shame complex that would make middle easterners and nips blush.

But I pulled through. I realized that my self image was just an elaborate ruse.

>Best version
Tru, but realize that this only makes sense in the paremeters of your own emotions and sense of identity and that there's nothing inherently 'good' or 'noble' about it, just like everything else in life. So don't attatch so much weight to it.

That being said, it's good to strive for greatness. But it's nothing that should drive you mad if you wouldn't succeed at it.

>>8361708
Also a problem a lot of people seem to have is that they can't enjoy simpler things thanks to that there are greater things.

Realize that in your world, in your reality there is nothing but you and what you're doing right now. Everything else is just thought of that and there, then and then. Just enjoy the plainness of your life. It doesn't matter. This sandwich, this glass of water, this simple tv show, this wank.. no shame in enjoying that.

"Have they ever mentioned to you, that you could get by quite easily without knowing a single moment of what we might call joy or pleasure, yet continue to flourish until the very moment your headstone looms into view? No, why would they ever mention this.. to you?"

Also folks and senpaitachi, one last thing you REAAALLYYY need to think of is to prioritize one thing above EVERY fucking THING else: Your peace of mind. It is the foundation, the alpha and omega for everything else in your life. Concentration, confidence, and of course... stillness.

>>8361700
Nigga are you high or something? How will this cliche self help shit will help me reprogram my desires?

>>8361730
Reprogramming your desires is 100% reprogramming how you think about yourself and your enviroment. I gave you tools.

>>8359616
What does that change you fucking retard? Persistence is also mostly genetic. When you "feel" like working or not giving up, it's not just your brain deciding to work hard, it's just your brain secreting certain hormones which encourage you to work hard.

The secretion of these hormones is largely genetic. You will never ever in your life achieve the persistence some other people have naturally, no matter how hard you try. You will fail after a couple of years.

>>8359757

I agree, but it's all up to a certain degree. A man can work 10 years to gain a solid work ethic, while someone else has that naturally from birth. That's the type of disadvantage I'm talking about. Even persistence is actually a genetic trait, and when we talk about favorable genes like ones that make us look good, more intelligent, we should also talk about genes that give us persistence and productivity. Some people are more prone to be depressed, some people are more prone to work hard, everything is in the genes my good man. You will change little from what was predetermined at your brain.

>>8361708
>this only makes sense in the paremeters of your own emotions and sense of identity
If you identify yourself as something others chose for you, then you are nothing but a puppet.

>there's nothing inherently 'good' or 'noble
This is highschoool philosophy. You decide those concepts.
>So don't attatch so much weight to it.
I will put the weight I want. My best version of myself depends only on things I can directly change by myself. Why would I care about shit I can control? Why would I spend hours thinking about shit of the past? Why would I spend time making me depressed?

All of that shit is useless. You feel good improving yourself and demonstrating your body, that you can surpass your past loser thoughts and beliefs.

>>8361722
>greater things.
What is that.
I don't understand your topic's speech.
>>8361740
>The secretion of these hormones is largely genetic. You will never ever in your life achieve the persistence some other people have naturally, no matter how hard you try. You will fail after a couple of years.
More made-up bullshit?
Keep deluding yourself.

>>8361740
It's just your brain sending signals to secrete certain hormones...*

Sorry about the mistake.

>>8361743
lol

I really hate that the English language makes it necessary to separate "you" from life.

I blame the English for believing a soul existed and making heresy a crime.

>>8350546
"they prefer" you mean "the genetic lottery made them think they prefer"

>>8361740
Like the hormones your brain sends out when you have social anxiety and go out, walk by girls and need to talk to strangers. I fixed that. Persistence is just another thing we mostly fail because we associate too many negatives with it. Having it and having it not is far too simple, you give the brain not enough credit. Persistent people have just learned to associate persistence with more positive feelings. That's literally it. There is no hard substance we can't change about.

I am not smart enough to fully think this thought to the end:

Isn't all this talk pointless? We are trying to analyze our minds while using our minds. We pretend we can "step out" ouf ourselves and judge ourselves objectivly and realize how this and that is caused by chemicals in our brain, genetics and environment but isn't there some kind of observer effect going on? Or some kind of buggy self-awareness loop where you think that everything is caused by factors outside of your control (a way of thinking which may be out of your control) so you end up doing nothing?

>>8361761
The problem is that most pseudo-intelectual losers will actually blame their genes and environment for their shitty life.

You can actually say, the genes determine a behavior. Because you believe in determinism.

But you can't predict a behavior by looking at someone's genes yet. So it's the same as not knowing shit.

>>8361764
Don't even bother, these kind of people mix up the determinism problem, and self-pity.
Pure made up bullshit excuses.

>>8361774
We are not analyzing our minds here.
>factors outside of your control
Nope. You can influence them.
>you end up doing nothing?
Why don't you try it?

>>8361774
That was the point from the very beginning. If you think all is meaningless you get too anxious to do anything and will as a result procrastinate. That's just a bullshit loop, you will never get off this ride like this. That why positive self talk and staying positive in general is a necessity to change.

It's quite ironic that thinking you have no free will and nothing can change is the fundament for those thoughts to become reality.

>>8361780
>You can influence them.

And what is you? Are you some kind of blank slate?

>>8361790
Which factors are outside of your control?

>>8361782
You don't have to believe on free will.
I don't believe on free will. But I know nobody knows my destiny, nor my future behaviors.

I know I can influence myself. I know I can improve my body, my habits, and my perspectives.

You could say that everytime someone says: "I..." then he implies he believes in free will.
But you could say that "My genes determined that I...", so it's the same shit for you.

If this syntaxis exercise was making you anxious, now it is resolved.

>>8361813
I don't give a shit sperg. Don't reply to me or my wife's son ever again.

>>8361797
My point is that there is no ~you~ that is somehow detached from everything. You can do what you want but you can't want what you want. You just do. You can't control your thoughts either. They just pop up in your head.

I lost 10 minutes of my life in this thread full of crying baby faggots.

Go and do sth productive you idiots. Stop blaming your retard genes.

>>8361831
Don't act like those 10 minutes were worth shit, my man.

>>8361831
It's in my genes to complain about my genes.

>My point is that there is no ~you~ that is somehow detached from everything.
Detached from everything? Do you mean a soul? Even if it does exist, "You"?
What the hell are talking about?
You are what you consciously do right now. If you think about being a fireman and work for it, your subconsciousness is interpreting you as a potential fireman. A man who is working to be a fireman. You are a potential fireman, because you work for that dream.
>You can do what you want but you can't want what you want.
If you are refering that you want something but you can't move your ass from the armchair, then I don't know that much. That always happened to me when I lied to myself and protected my comfort zone.
>You just do. You can't control your thoughts either.
You can control them better. I actually get distracted sometimes but I think about some pragmatic examples and memories and it helps me focus on it.

Sincerely, I improved my atention skill and will. Now I'm able to overcome and face failures more efficiently. Now I don't spend hours feeling pity for myself.

If your questions were based on the free will problem, then It's another matter.

>>8361831
I also are spending my freetime over here. This and some weeb shit are the unique things left to overcome the procrastination habit.
>>8361835
They can. It's a matter of which questions you are asking yourself.

This is question is directed towards the people in this thread talking about self improvement, please reply.

Do you make decisions independent of past experiences?

Did you make the decision to have a brain that's not faulty?

Did you make the decision to not be born in a war torn country?

You're ass free to decide to self improve as you are to decide where you're born, what genes are dulled out to you at birth, how many siblings you have and what planet your born on.

This is to say you're not responsible for the fact that you believe people can improve, ans people who believe they can't improve aren't responsible for the fact that they believe people can't improve.

>>8361675
>You'd be surprised how easy it is to reprogram your desires.

I tried and it's not possible for me. You could say that I am just not open for change but how can I control that?

>>>8361904
>Do you make decisions independent of past experiences?
Everybody do it. How many times have you forgotten about an error, and you fail when you try it?
>Did you make the decision to have a brain that's not faulty?
I didn't decide anything about my genes.

>Did you make the decision to not be born in a war torn country?
Nobody decided that.

>You're ass free to decide to self improve as you are to decide where you're born,
Nope. There are some people who survived wars and kept progressing.

Kaizen ideology from Japanese survivals are the epitome of surpassing the commom human cooperation.
>what genes are dulled out to you
This is a polemic topic. Because many depressed and loser people tend to make up excuses based on their "genes" or their experiences. So making a priori conclusions about their shitty life will obviously keep them from improving themselves.
>at birth, how many siblings you have and what planet your born on.
There are people who had a lot of brothers and had success. I don't know people from Jupiter, though.

>This is to say you're not responsible for the fact that you believe people can improve
This is not a question where you could state the answer as a yes or no. Every action have been influenced by many factors when we are talking about humans. For example, back then if somebody started talking to me, I would feel very depressed later, but now I don't give a shit. The stimuli is the same. My genes are almost the same. What's different? My brain. My subconscious and conscious mind.
How did I change it? With new habits and rituals.

>>8362629
>ans people who believe they can't improve aren't responsible for the fact that they believe people can't improve.
>responsible
In a society you are responsible of your actions when you are over 18yo.
When you get older, you tend to be less influenced by your parents and your friends. But some people still are attached to them or can't adquire an emotional independence.

For example:
If there is a manchildren who doesn't want to work, even though his parents have talked to him. He always says:"I'm not responsible and my genes decided that I won't work"
I can slap the shit out of him, and he probably will probably move his ass from the PC before I start.

The problem you are talking about is nothing relevant to humans. You may believe in determinism or not. Things will still happen.

However, there are grades of influence of stimuli which will affect your actions and mind or not. You can learn to influence your brain in a productive and optimal way, or you can keep deluding yourself about the world.

Again, you are mixing up a metaphysical problem with your made-up excuses.

>>8362630
And all their made up excuses are invalidated the moment they are spouted.
A priori sentences are the commom model for made up excuses.

Anon here, born with many chronic physical conditions, that particularly in childhood were highly debilitating, and have now worked to the point where i've just been accepted into med school.

>got dealt a shitty hand
>work hard and kept a positive attitude over the years
>profit?

>>8349774
Duh.

>>8349787
The uncertainty attributed to QM doesn't change the fact that
for all practical intents and purposes, in our scale and within the scope of our lives and experiences, the world is deterministic.

It's true that from our point of view the OP is a douche and a moron, since all we can do is try and improve ourselves or not. It is true that the OP is full of shit in that most people who ever make anything out of themselves, were NOT born that way, but instead worked their ass off to get there... despite all that, the fact that they even choose to work or not, choose to try or not, is predetermined by events preceding those "choices".

These topics are pointless though. Just like anyone with half a brain can understand that free will does not exist, anyone with a little more brain than the half brain guy will also realize that bitching about the fact isn't going to change anything. So there's really nothing you can actually do with that information.

>>8363390
>for all practical intents and purposes, in our scale and within the scope of our lives and experiences, the world is deterministic.
not if you go back to the very beginning, no

>>8363399
>within the scope of our lives and experiences...
Please, read what you're replying to, before you reply.

>>8362630
Well, i guess i can't be to supersized.

How do people make choices? before you make a decision, what happens? does you'r brain weigh the options and do what it believes it will benefit most from or is there someone inside the brain the can veto a decision and acts independent of the physical state of your brain? if you believe in the magical man that can veto decisions, how how does he decide if a decision should be vetoed or not?

If you believe people choose the outcome of their life you must also believe people have free will.

why is it that when asked how free will works people never answer?

>>8363743
>magical man that can veto decisions
I think I can explain it now. Thanks for asking me.

Because the "free will" you are refering is something that scapes the determinism.

But the coaching "free will" is the capacity to change the default influence made by your environment and experience, so your thoughts and actions differ from the commom denominator of people.

A good example are the people in burgerland. Most people swallow the educations and principles their fathers got, and most people follow the same principles which will make them predictable. Most people aren't used to make a use of their neocortex. So, their subconscious "is fated" to follow their instincts: "Be, spontaneous" Do you remember this slogan? They are more manipulable due to the lack of conscious activity.

You keep comparing the determinism problem with some made up excuses.
>people choose the outcome of their life
Yes they do. A commom examplle: Their subconscious disagrees when doing some effort which result will make them more uncomfortable than happy. And this happen with the psychological reversal.

>before you make a decision, what happens?
It's known by an experiment, that your subconscious decided your choice seconds before you started thinking about it. That's why the ideas and excuses you make up in your head aren't most of the time anything related to your true reasons and fears.

There are some "pseudoscience" studies which explains these kind of behavior and functions, but I believe you don't give a fuck but assuming you know your fate.

Have fun.

>>8349774
>>8349780
>>8349781
>>8349782
>>8349783
>>8349784
>>8349787

Life doesn't have to be based on luck, go 20 seconds of the way in to this video that talks about how to use science to make human beings better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaCHBmGWcBc

>>8364936
> your subconscious decided your choice seconds before you started thinking about it

>people choose the outcome of their life

I think our disagreement arises from the fact that we're using choose in completely different ways

>>8365422
>people are what I decide
Yeah, is the next argument's topic a conceptual one?
KEK

>>8365428
What are you even talking about?

When did i ever make the statement "people are what i decide"? i'm disappointed in you.

STOP BUMPING THIS STUPID NONSENSE LAZY ASSES BETA EMO THREAD

FUCKING SAGE

>>8365435
>What are you even talking about?
At least my prediction wasn't true.
>i'm disappointed in you.
I'm sorry if I don't satisfy you now. Bye ;^=)

>>8365438
It's you again, i see you hate being reminded that you have no control over your life and your future is already determined, it's okay.

>>8365444
This is why i think thread specific id's would be a great addition to sci, i don't think you're replying to the right person, i have no idea what you're talking about.

>>8365453
So no-argument?
Ok.

>>8365445
>you have no control over that chair
>because you didn't interact with it
Literally, /r9k/.
KEK

>>8365460
What was your argument? please elaborate, i couldn't decipher what you meant by writing
"people are what i decide" in green text.

>>8349774
>waah waah I am a loser and instead of doing something about it I cry like a dumb little baby
how about you remove yourself from the gene pool? ohh right, fortunately that will happen whether you want it or not

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN-l6WtB71g

>>8365469
You have to make an effort first. What was your argument? ;^)

>>8349783
>>8349787
>>8349860
>>8349925
>detected

Detectors Detected!

>>8365474
This is the ultimate shitpost.

>>8365445
Well, no. I'm another anon.

Actually, it's not about the content of the thread, which i dont agree so i have no problem. It's about the lazy asses around. Honestly, i would like to encourage you to move your ass to work and try, rather than complain about muh genetics.

But it is ok, you can keep your thread. I saw it again, i raged, now i'm calm again enjoying my self-control happy life and putting my ass to work after some /sci/ fun and enlightment.

Have a good day and enjoy your beta thread.

>>8365480
/red.itt9k/ can't work for shit
They are too dumb to notice their problems. Why do you think its neighbour board is /pol/?

TOP KEK

>>8365466
If you can't change the past and the past influences the future then to a degree past decisions determine your future, do you agree with this? if you kill yourself because of depression you can't then choose to unkill yourself.

If i ask you why you made a specific decision and we kept asking why after every answer you gave, where would we end up?

>>8365484
I just have some faith on /sci/. There is some kind of potencial here. Some anons just need more confidence to exploit it.

>>8365472
Yeah, i agree, retards need to stop pretending to be so retarded, if only they just worked really hard they could be just as smart as everybody else, people choose to have the mindsets they have, it's their fault they weren't born in an environment that was conducive to their mental health and lead them to have a positive mindset.

>>8365491
>people choose to have the mindsets they have
the only part of your post that wasnt retarded

you fucking idiot

>>8365494
>>people choose to have the mindsets they have

Do you actually believe this?

How does choice work? can you please explain it to us.

>>8365505
>Do you actually believe this?
no. I know it

>How does choice work?
through conscious thought

>>8365494
Let me reword my question. Are choices made INDEPENDENT of the physical state of the universe?

>>8365486
>If multiple actions lead to A
>Can A be avoided if the same actions happen?
The problem is that no-one in this thread know what elements determine your behavior.

So, implying that these X concepts (which people like OP don't know shit about but keep repeating everyday) will determine your behavior, is dumb; because no-one knows which elements determine your behavior, and how do they interact with them.

Like this guy said before, "the coaching free will" tries to eliminate the self pity of ignorants like OP.

The problem you are refering is the "cause"->"effect fenomena, which will lead to a deterministic universe.
I agree with this, but people like OP don't know shit about their capacity, nor the psychological effects and implications of their diet, mental habits, emotional interactions, etc.

Getting back on topic, the fact that people tell to themselves: "I can't better myself" "My genes determine everything", is actually the biggest wall to self-aceptation and self-improvement.

Of course, when you think: "My genes determine me", you are implying you know your genes, and the whole process and nature of your body, which is actually ridiculous. And those thoughts themselves are changing your behavior right now.
And I'm not even starting with "I can't change".
So you can think whatever you want, anon.

Also, you could say that what I'm telling you is actually influencing your behavior too. I'm part of your environment!

I'm not selling you anything, so feel free to derail the topic to a deterministic one. ;^=)

>>8365509
>choice->X
Show me the path, Einstein.
TOP KEK

>>8365513
no

>>8365509
rofl'd

>>8365509
is consciousness something that happens independent of the physical state of the universe or is consciousness a process that arises within the universe?

>>8365520
>>8365517
yeah see all you losers can do is whine and then laugh about people who are not like you

you are obnoxious human trash

>>8365522
>people are x
People are poor. Is that genetic?
TOP KEK

>>8365523
no. poverty is a choice

>>8365527
Starting to think you're ironically shitposting

>I need money.
>Better spend 200 dollars a month on unnecesary shit
>watches sports
>Why am I still poor?
>>8365530
Don't worry samefag, I noticed.

>>8365530
I am serious

>>8365534
this

but you forgot
>cry like a little bitch on the internet about my problems instead of doing something about the´m

>>8365535
You're responsible for the fact that i'm a failure, you could choose to change me into someone that doesn't complain about anything.

>>8365540
Oh! poor little thing! He is afraid of harmless failure!
Go back to /r9k/ and keep complaining there.

>>8365540
>You're responsible for the fact that i'm a failure
no the only one responsible for yourself when you are an adult is you

>>8365544
Why did you tell me to go back to r9k

>>8365521
Consciousness is not what decides your behavior. It only influences a bit of it. Your consciousness is there to give you excuses so you are bit more confident about your decision.
>>8365548
Because the universe told me to do it.

I guess there's really nothing to it, some people due the their life experiences will come to the conclusion that free will exists others will come to the conclusion that it doesn't.

>>8365561
Keep deluding yourself. ;)

>>8364979

Did you watch it?

>>8364936
>Because the "free will" you are refering is something that scapes the determinism.

I think you meant to say "escapes the determinism" and not "scapes the determinism".

>>8350546
Honestly I can't cope with this kind of retarded thinking. So I was busting my ass for 5 years to get university degree,while somebody else was just smoking weed all day 24/7. And now I am somehow privileged. FUCK YOU

I agree
but you can do nothing to do something about it

so just fucking do whatever you have to do, without looking at others

I have osteoarthritis with 20 and take opiate because the pain is killing me

and when not working out every day and counting calories I will get fatter than jabba
but I don't complain because it won't help me

>>8359637
That too and he retained it all while having terrible health habits.

>>8367243
There's no point to argue with that retarded. Let him live in his self-made comfy bubble.

>>8367243
No body ever said you didn't work hard, but you can't deny the fact that you're fortunate for having the capability to succeed by working hard, you aren't responsible for having that capability, just as retard isn't responsible for the fact that he doesn't have the capability to accomplish some complex mental tasks regardless of "hard work"

>>8367243
>be born in the first world, or in a family wealthy enough to be part of the "I have a computer and browse the Internet for leisure" crowd
>not lucky
Nigger, there are people in Bengladesh who bust their ass their whole life just to get a few peanuts. I mean come on.

>>8367243
>i'm not lucky
>I'm better
If you feel happy that way. Go on.

Look how easy is to burst your ego bubble. It will always be like this.

Why are you retards talking about determinism in a depression thread?

>>8349791
>>8349949
What do you retards call poor? Not being able to afford a pumpkin spice latte every morning doesn't mean poor for god's sake.