/sci/ - Science & Math

>>8226909
What's there to overcome? Accept it and make use of the non-oblivion that is life.

To be fair, it's easy to reconcile the fact, lots of people function knowing this. That is unless you're suffering from a mental condition such as depression.

>>8226909
Remember how it was before you were born? It'll be just like that.

There is a possibility that you wil live long enough to acheieve immortality

>>8226909
I'm not gonna call you underage because you still have all your grandparents, I'm gonna call you underage because you're still having existential crises.

If it really troubles you that much, go believe in god or something.

>>8226909
Here you go faggot

>>8226913
>depression
You might call it that at this stage, but I'd never admit to it openly, considering how over-self-diagnosed it is these days. Maybe when anonymously posting online.

>>8226915
But I WANT to KNOW what will happen with the world - still a disturbing scenario.

>>8226920
Unfortunately, this will most likely be exclusively available for an isolated 'elite' in the early stages. Most of us will fall on the wrong side of the fence. I almost wish it never happens to make life/the world 'fair'.

>>8226929
This is the only worth-while post on the entirely of 4chan, except maybe in the porn boards

>>8226909
reverse oxidation of acetal... that trici heavy carbon, ozonized backwards.....how long effect stays is important.... sound overclocked diacetylmorphine is like instagib>>8226909

I try not to think about it

When I do, I freak out

>>8226909

13.82 billion years of total oblivion passed before molecular replicators assembled the organic structure that constitutes that which is OP.

The matter of which you are made up has been in an inorganic state for the majority of its existence and you as a conscious being have been inexistent for the vast majority of time.

Upon passing you will only be returning to the inorganic state from which you first came.

It is the most natural state for you to be in.

There’s nothing to fear, OP.

You worry for your grandparents due to genetic programming constituting psychological mechanisms that correspond to kin altruism.

Your fear of death is resultant of similar programming that developed over human evolutionary history.

You are an organic robotic machine whose on board computer has developed self-awareness.

Fear not that which you came to fear by intuition as these fears are not resultant of your thoughts, they are programs; subroutines inherited from your ancestors.

Increase your awareness, OP.

Learn everything you can and be at peace.

>>8226975
this

You and your grandparents are composed of particles. These particles are defined as quantum states, and they transfer these states back and forth.

A particle moving in space can have every position it will ever take relative to any other arbitrary particle modelled by a phase diagram. Quantum states can be modelled with phase diagrams.

Quantum entanglement is where two particles share the same value on a phase diagram. Distance, defined as Energy, is one of many quantum states.

A closed timelike loop describes a particle that makes an orbit in space where, on the phase diagram, the end state of the particle is identical to the start state. Since the beginning can't be defined, time has no beginning within one.

In such a loop, you can be the Energy that bumps you into the orbit in the first place. Conservation of energy demands that E be created, because the source of the energy is the particle itself - if the particle sucks energy from it's own past, it won't have the energy to bump itself into orbit. The second law of thermodynamics leads to causality violations on the quantum level, and so has to be discarded there. In fact, every moment in time has to remain static. There's no reason to believe the future doesn't already exist - this is called Eternalism.

From this perspective, you blossumed out of your grandparents like a flower. They exist for all eternity, and so do you.

>>8226975
>You are an organic robotic machine whose on board computer has developed self-awareness.

Are you really self-aware? Aren't your self-aware thoughts influenced by processes you are not aware of? I think because of the observer effect we can't be truly self-aware. I mean we can't even think what we think. We just do. And then analyze what we thought in a feedback loop. Also we are limited by our intelligence and information. You probably felt self-aware all your life yet everyone surely has some past moments where you wonder what you were thinking back then.

>>8226924
Why are people always so condescending towards people with existential crisises?

>>8227009

Their denial is at risk of shattering.

>>8227003

>Are you really self-aware? Aren't your self-aware thoughts influenced by processes you are not aware of?

Of course my little chinny chin.

We are not completely aware and most likely never will be.

We may increase our degree of self awareness, however and I encourage all to do so.

Also, party at my house this weekend.

>>8227014
>We may increase our degree of self awareness

How? I mean you can't know that you are not aware of something until someone else points it out. Like right now I may feel self-aware but someone smarter than me might think I am an idiot.

>>8227016

>I mean you can't know that you are not aware of something until someone else points it out.

That is why you actively seek knowledge and understanding.

>Like right now I may feel self-aware but someone smarter than me might think I am an idiot.

You would still be self-ware.

The other person may be aware of things that you are not and vice versa.

>>8226920
Immortality is impossible because heat death.

>>8226909
I believe in an afterlife and I'm going to post my reasoning: My reasoning is as follows... There's not enough knowledge that can be had to be able to draw conclusions about an afterlife at all. It is stupid to claim anything about it. Therefore I don't know, I only believe. I was atheist for 19 years.

Even if, man, it's nothing to care about at all. Why worry about something you can't control dude? You just gotta make sure you have a good time while you're actually on earth. Sure, may be scary to ponder, but you won't experience you not experiencing anything so paradoxically you're afraid of literally nothing.

>>8227003
>arent your self aware thoughts influenced
This just means we dont have free will. Our brain is still very much aware of its existence and able to consider ourself seperately from everything else

>>8226909

I believe in God.

>>8227176
It's scary how people nowadays are so reluctant to even consider anything like a God. Really sad too. There's not a lot of honest discourse about God and all the stuff people say about God is very superficial.

>>8227182
Most people consider it, they just dont believe in it.

>>8227176
Me too.

God is the best. I love Him very much.

>>8227176
>>8227182
>>8227227

Why? >>8227227

>>8227208
Actually, most people nowadays consider it in an incredibly narrow way. The arguments that atheists put forth aren't very convincing

>>8227234
For you

>>8227252
No I mean shit like "science can explain everything" or "suffering exists" aren't very convincing to me and shouldn't be convincing to anybody. It's rather arrogant to think that a human can actually know stuff like that, hence why being sure of a belief or a disbelief in God is retarded. I'm rather convinced, but I'm not sure.

>>8227234

For me it's not that arguments atheists put forward aren't convincing (although I'm sure many of them aren't), it's that any argument put forward by theists is completely unconvincing and has no rational basis.

I haven't seen one logically viable argument in favour of God, ever.

>>8227232
Why it's scary? Because people don't think for themselves.

>>8227260

>science can explain everything

This is tantamount to saying 'humans can know everything'.

We don't know if we'll ever understand everything and I think it's rather unlikely.

>"suffering exists"

We know exactly why suffering exists and have done for many years.

>>8227264

You know what I was asking.

Why do you believe in God?

t. Someone who thinks for hisself

>>8227234
Because if you dont believe in god, there is nothing more to consider than the philosophical and sociological implications. You dont need to be convinced of anything

>>8227234
They are far more convincing than the arguments put forth by theists.

>>8227260
>It's rather arrogant to think that a human can actually know stuff like that
How is it arrogant to dismiss things that have no measurable effects on the world? Usually people mean "I'm as sure as I can and I dont have a reason to assume otherwise" when they say "I'm sure" because they know and are tired of metaphysical skepticism

>>8227267
Yes? That's what I meant.


Well yes, explain that as much as you want to - but don't come tell me "sufrn eksist - no gawd"

>>8227268
I didn't think you asked that actually since my comment that you replied to was not about believing in God.

My reasons would not convince you, it doesn't matter. They are subjective interpretations and intuition and a few thought-processes made, that I don't put too much emotional investment in.
>>8227276
Except many people disbelieve because they haven't really considered it and have a very one dimensinonal view of God.
>>8227282
None are convincing.
>>8227296
I don't think there are no effects on the world. I could be wrong, I don't know. Most people who I've met who don't believe do it on the grounds of that either science has explained it away or there's a lot of suffering in the world, so your experience is different than mine.

>>8227296
Also I was talking more about people who are certain when I say know.

>>8227305
I know that this is probably not a logically strong argument but for me god just doesn't make reasonable sense. I just think that if something magical like god existed then this world would not be so material. We would not have all these complex biological processes instead we would be made of some magical matter. We would not have any science.

>>8227313
That indeed doesn't make any sense as an argument. If the afterlife is perfect, why would this life be perfect too? Then this would already be the afterlife and the afterlife would be redundant.

To me, there's no free will or a unitary self - there's only consciousness and at another level there's a soul which serves as a connection back to that place we came from and are heading towards - This life is simply a preview, as if we are watching a movie, not some test or anything really, we're just playing the roles we were given.

I'm uncertain what the afterlife is like, I think a lot about it but in the end I can't really know. I just go by the 'signs' I was given. I don't like talking about that becuase as I said, I've been an atheist for 19 years and I know how many of them think and they would not be convinced by my reasons. On an open board like this, I'd never say it, because I don't feel like getting ridiculed.

>>8227319
>my reasons. On an open board like this, I'd never say it, because I don't feel like getting ridiculed.
Did god speak to you? Are hallucinations a convincing logical argument?

>>8227325
No and no.

>>8226909
I ate a bunch of shrooms one night and experienced the pure empty, horrifying meaninglessness of existence. All I was, was a thing that exists. When you see existence without ego, it changes you a little bit. In that moment, seizing to exist was the most logical thing to want. I'm already pretty okay with death but I now embrace death. I hope there is no afterlife. I don't want to exist forever. Try eating a lot of shrooms I guess.

>>8227305
Well, what is there to consider that would make people believe it?
It's not like science "explains it away" or that there is proof against it. Some people dont believe it, because there is no reason for them to do so. No evidence, no testable predictions. I dont want to tip any hats here. I just think believing in god is nothing you can really choose. No matter how hard I tried, I couldnt become someone who genuinely believes in things like that. It is more like falling in love, being a fan of a certain genre of music or being turned on by [x]. There isnt a rational explanation behind it, you just feel that way

>>8227319
The whole afterlife thing doesn't make sense to me too.

Doesn't it rest on the belief of free will? That this life is some kind of test. But why do we need to be tested? Can't god predict the decisions we will make? If hell is supposed to be a deterrent why is he not so transparent about it? And is belief out of fear of hell not dishonest?

Any answer religion comes up reminds me of the way people try to explain plot holes in movies. Far fetched.

I think this world is fully logical and if there is some superior being it doesn't matter as we are isolated from it.

>>8227329
>no
Cool story, bro.

Anyway, there are no convincing arguments either way. For what its worth I'm not sure even an all powerful deity could determine if it was really an all powerful being or if another, presumably real deity was just playing an elaborate trick on it. The christian god, as far as I can tell, could not be certain that he himself weren't the creation of a still more powerful being. A being who will eventually judge him. And for that matter you or I can't definitively prove we're not all-powerful deities, pretending to be mortal for a time. Which is quite humorous, to say the least.

>>8227333
Well, there are more and less plausible reasons I'd say when it comes down to it. I don't believe this world is devoid of divine intervention so I think there's reason to believe but you're right, you're either convinced or you're not.

>>8227334
No, it does not. Not in my view. It's like we're living through the sims. I actually have considered the thought that God may simply be a very skilled computer programmer. Such a person would be considered a God since he can do anything which is possible and conceivable with his own program. Hell doesn't exist. Purgatory doesn't really exist either. Everything is predetermined and we're all predetermined to go to heaven, we're just here to experience the richness and variety of life. That's my belief at least.

Religion is bullshit for the most part in my opinion. It's too.. constrained.

I think I experience divine intervention every now and then, small things and big. Not often enough for it to be too apparent as I think one of the things I was predetermined to do was to find this shit out for myself. Which is why a lot of things I believe are left to what is 'chance', which is still within the computer program but is not specifically programmed in detail. These things are not too important though and they're what makes this universe seem Godless, which is an important thing because if God showed himself too much it wouldn't be the same experience. It's supposed to be a bit vague, but still intelligible.

>>8227337
That's close to what I believe but I don't want to associate myself with organized religion. To be honest, what I think is more of a philosophy and a belief system based around divine intervention and such. I just said no because neither of your suggestions of what reasons I had were remotely accurate and I'm not going to tell it to you unless you give me some way to pm you whatever that may be skype or whatever.

>>8227341
>I think I experience divine intervention every now and then

Do you have any examples?

>>8227349
Not that wouldn't be explained away as chance, which is why it's useless to mention them. I know the type of people that might even be remotely open to these things being DI and I honestly don't think many of the people on this board are.

FYI it is also useless to me to discuss it with religious people because they already believe in this stuff and they aren't seriously considering it and analyzing it.

>>8227358
This is an anonymous imageboard. Why do you care about how someone here might respond?

>>8226932

>Unfortunately, this will most likely be exclusively available for an isolated 'elite' in the early stages. Most of us will fall on the wrong side of the fence.

Then become an elite. Immortality might be just around the corner. Make sure you have enough money to pay for it.

>>8227361
I'm bipolar.

Also, I practically already know the response so it doesn't matter really. People say it's chance won't make me believe it's chance. Which means that nobody will convince anybody. I'm not gonna say that Jesus descended from heaven and gave me a pizza , which you wouldn't believe either, so I can't convince you and you can't convince me. Which is why I think it doesn't really matter.

>>8227364
>Also, I practically already know the response so it doesn't matter really.

Why did you make all these posts then in the first place?

>>8227362
The heat death makes immortality an impossibility.

>>8227366
I wasn't the one who went into my reasons for believing.

>>8227362
You can't just became one. It's something that requires being born in the right place, being very lucky or/and being highly intelligent, social and strong willed.

>>8227305

>but don't come tell me "sufrn eksist - no gawd"

I have no need to

There's no viable argument in favour of God in the first place; therefore, I have no need to argue against the notion.

>>8227378
Well that's good, but a lot of atheists argue against the belief in a God that way.

>>8227362
>Then become an elite.
>Make sure you have enough money to pay for it.
Valid point. An alternative would be to just 'do it yourself' and research immortality, which would presumably turn you into an 'elite' rather quickly.

>>8227368
It's more about biological immortality. The probability to die to a random or targeted act of violence approaches 1 as time approaches infinity.

Don't you want to know what will happen in 2516?

>>8227380
I want to die in 80 years ish.

>>8227380
>An alternative would be to just 'do it yourself' and research immortality

I think the recent quick technological progress and movies about superheroes made some people believe they can do everything. The 1000 smartest minds on earth with an unlimited budget could probably not come up with it in our lifetime yet you believe you could do it on your own while shitposting on /sci/?

>>8227384
Why?

Assuming you remain the equivalent of a 30 y/o physically, and have cyclical memory formats to avoid insanity. ~100 years is an arbitrarily short amount of time.

You man the fuck up

>>8227394
Because I have my own reasons.

>>8227387
Absolutely not. The probability of success is negligibly small. The 'DYI' was kind of a reference to >>8226929, hence the ''.

I meant it more along the lines to 'join the efforts in the pursuit of' the goal. Financially or otherwise. You probably won't be successful though...

>>8227397
It's easy to say that now, but in 80 years you'll feel just as awake as you do now. You won't be life weary.

>>8226909
>/sci/
>death is scary, what do?

>>8227403
That's not why. I want to die one day.

>>8226909
>2. I will eventually end up in eternal oblivion - infinite negative expected value.
To be fair, the alternative - living through ages of horrible events - doesn't sound so plausible either. Just enjoy your life and the things that you do, at the end of it you'll have had enough. That's what I think.

>>8226913
>To be fair, it's easy to reconcile the fact, lots of people function knowing this


no they don't. they forget about it for temporary periods of time only to consider it for 30 seconds at a red light on their way to work. if most people had this in the back of their heads all the time the world would be very different.

>>8226909
acid

>>8226909
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYCxC2UKD9E

>>8226909
be an hero

just wanted to dump this

>>8226929
This is partly bullshit,People who crave for meaning should dedicate themselves to empirical sciences trying to approach the truth on why things are the way they are right now

>philosophy
>>>/his/
When will you faggots learn?

>>8226929
Daoism and Zen Buddhism are literally polar opposites. Put it under peace where it belongs. Also, buddhism never says you have to give up all desires. It's literally called "The Middle Path" because you're supposed to take your desires in moderation. Buddha himself learned the hard way that giving up all desires to just focus on enlightenment is a bad idea.

>>8227620
And I'm enjoying your dump. thanks, mate

>>8227402
>Or thing
>continues forever
Stop shitposting your personal interpretations of actual beliefs.

>>8226909
if the loss of life has infinite negative value then does it follow that life has infinite positive value?

>>8226909
Best to leave that kind of thinking to the fundamentals of the Universe. Just know, you are energy, and nothing in the universe is not made of energy, so it would be reasonable to assume that you wont reach oblivion until the Heat Death. And in the time before the Heat Death it would also be reasonable to assume that that energy that you occupy in the universe may once again be put into a crude or magnificent shell of a living organism. As for the oblivion after the Heat Death... I'm sure there will be another big bang of some sort, so we good.

>>8226909

Energy and information can never be created nor destroyed. Presumably, consciousness is at least one of those. Death is the end of one illusion and the beginning of another.

t. Discordian

>eternal oblivion - infinite negative expected value.
No, it's infinite neutral value.

Nonexistence is neutral, everything you consider bad about it is just how you feel about it now while you exist.

Also Bolzmann Brains.

>>8226929
Hedonism it is then

>>8227637
congratulations

>>8228089
Boltzmann killed himself for a reason

>>8228131
> Ludwig Boltzmann, who spent much of his life studying statistical mechanics, died in 1906 by his own hand. Paul Ehrenfest, carrying on the work, died similarly in 1933. Now it is our turn to study statistical mechanics.
> David Goodstein

>>8226909
I had one of these when I was around 13. I woke before everyone else in my family to get ready for school and just started crying about how life is meaningless. No one heard me because they were all asleep and that made the situation even more soul-crushing. Makes me kek now tho; just a kid crying about some pretentiously profound realization. Now whenever I get an episode of existential dispair, I'm immediately cheered up by the fact that I'm feeling those emotions at all and I remember:
>life is an experience that exists for its own sake.

>>8228182
this desu senpai
shame I rarely get excited about many things.

>>8227282
Doesn't matter what's more convincing than what, religion helps me sleep at night

>>8227341
>Everything is predetermined and we're all predetermined to go to heaven, we're just here to experience the richness and variety of life.

good luck taking this to court

>>8228257
That's nice for you, but religion poisons politics for everybody.

Perhaps you should take a sleeping pill?

>>8226909
Take some LSD or Psilocybin