/sci/ - Science & Math

Yeah all you gotta do is wait 2 million years for the dust to settle

>>8045854

Woah woah woah now let's HOLD ON, here. This is an emotional moment for all of us, but this MOON has a substantial DOLLAR VALUE attached to it, okay? And if in fact any alien life forms do exist on Mars, there might be an important species we're dealing with, and I don't think you or I can make the decision to do something rash, that might arbitrarily exterminate them!

I will only pay for it if we actually get good video of this shit exploding.
I refuse to otherwise.

>>8045854
>The amount of dust and debris a collision like that could kick up would be more than enough to start the terraforming process and we have the technology to do this today.
it would settle down pretty quick and nothing would happen.

>>8045854
Forgive me as I am a little rusty on the science of terraforming planets.

Would there not be a significant increase in radiation when nuking ice caps / giant floating ice balls on another planet?

I suspect the amount of energy required to push Phobos out of orbit is more than enough to significantly change the Martian environment ourselves in a far more controlled manner.

>>8045854
Well it's either that or nuking it back into orbit so it's collision doesn't fuck with our newly terraformed Mars.

Either way Phobos is gettin nuked.

>>8045883
>Would there not be a significant increase in radiation when nuking ice caps / giant floating ice balls on another planet?
nukes are relatively clean.

>>8045893
this

As far as I can tell, Phobos is fucked.

>>8045854
>Give me one good reason we shouldn't nuke Phobos out of orbit, /sci/.

We don't have enough other material to take advantage of the collision. you'd need to be bombarding it a few times a year with some pretty big and fast moving asteroids/comets in order to start terraforming. If we can get that sort of thing line up and do it all at once then go for it. Otherwise, it is like pissing in the wind.

You can't just move a moon. Nuclear weapons aren't magic you know. Anyway even if we could I don't agree with destroying nature.

>>8045945
>muh destroying nature
>muh ethics
>muh morals

>>8045945
>>8045910

It'd be better to use a mass driver to bombard the moon with asteroids and comets until it smashed into Mars.

Then use lasers to clear all the debris now surrounding the planet to you can land something on it within the next 2000 years.

>>8045945

Look at this shit. Tell me there's a species that lives here.

#NukeMars2k16

>>8045959
Nature exists for a reason, destroying it usually has unforseen consequences.

>>8045965
>implying that's mars and not just some place out in california/nevada

>>8045876
>And if in fact any alien life forms do exist on Mars
There isn't. And there probably never has been. Can we give up on this stupid wild goose chase and get to colonizing already?

>>8046180
If they were faking it why would they leave it looking exactly the same? The ridiculous level of similarity actually makes it more unlikely to be fake. Like come on how are you going to run a multi-million dollar fakery operation and do nothing else but airbrush out the trees and mexicans?

>>8046180
>that twilight zone episode where astronaut thinks he's stranded on an asteroid
>faggot is just in the Nevada desert

>>8045854
Phobos would make for a very handy platform for s space station though

>>8045854
No mag-net-o-sphere.

We would have to live underground.

>>8045854
>Crash moon, creating nuclear winter
>Lower planetary temperatures even more
>?????
>Move to newly habitable planet

>>8046184
>probably never has been
This is very far from certain

>implying I'd sacrifice my gains living on a planet with gravity that low

You manlets can have Mars.

So what exactly does this impact do? I hear this theory all the time, but nobody ever explains exactly what we would do with Mars after the collision and how it helps make it more like Earth. To me, it seems like throwing debris into the atmosphere would just make it more difficult for surface operations.

>>8046205
Thicken the atmosphere and fill it with more useful gasses. An iceball would be better though

>>8046209
So what do we do with these gases?

>>8046222
Breathe them eventually

>>8046184

>completely missing the meme of the post

>>8045854
>There is literally no reason to not terraform Mars by nuking Phobos out of orbit.
You say that like it's easy.... or even possible.

>>8046284
Well, a single tsar bomb could do it probably. It's blast radius was about 50 miles. Compare that to the relatively tiny 20 mile Phobos.

>>8045854
>Give me one good reason we shouldn't nuke Phobos out of orbit, /sci/.

because its the perfect candidate for a colony ship.

>>8046359
Blast radius in space is much smaller than in an atmosphere

>>8046171
>>Nature exists for a reason
>implying the universe has a reason

>>8046359
>tsar bomb
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba
>Weight 27,000 kilograms (60,000 lb)
Meanwhile, the heaviest thing we've ever sent beyond Earth orbit is::
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobos_program
>They each had a mass of 2600 kg
So, ten times the mass of the biggest thing we've ever sent to another planet...
And I've got to ask, did you really do the math on 50 Megaton blast vs 1.066*10^16 kilos of rock?
...or did you just Google "biggest bomb ever built"?

>>8045896
Why did Japan get so fucked, then?

>>8046393
What do you fucking think m8.

>well congratulations, you got yourself in orbit, now what's the next step of your master plan?
>CRASHING THIS PLANET WITH NO SURVIVORSH

>>8045945
It's not nature, it's fucking rocks.

>>8046180

>>8045876
Weyland-Yutani Shill detected.

>>8046409
You can go for a walk in Hiroshima right now, there is probably a McDonald's within 1km from ground zero.

>>8045896
Not really no. Air bursts prevent massive fallout due to better dispersion patters. If you dropped a nuke directly on to something a good amount of radioactive material would embed itself into the earth.

>>8046542

finally a nigga feel me

>terraforming a planet that doesn't have a magnetic field or ozone layer

what's the fucking point

>>8046727
>ozone layer
terraforming would GIVE it an ozone layer

however you are still right because
>doesn't have a magnetic field
is pretty damn important, and that's not going away anytime soon

>>8046732
>terraforming would GIVE it an ozone layer
how, exactly?

>>8046727
couldn't we just restart the core?

>>8046743
>couldn't we just restart the core?
God forgot to install a crank handle.

ozone layers are CREATED by the sun hitting oxygen...

>>8046204
They'd actually grow taller than the average human.
Just more spindly and weaker without constant exercise.

Higher gravity drives more bone density, shorter stature, and heightened immune, cardiovascular, and muscular structure.

Space faring manlets will rule the worlds.

>>8046743
Increase its mass 10x.

>impossibly porous
Can you please explain this bit further for me? Why is it impossible?

>>8045854
Well before we nuke Phobos (if we do have a powerful enough nuke to do that) can at least mine it?

>>8045854
No! No nuking qt moons! Phobos is for headpats only!

>>8046905
opkankeren met je kankershit

>>8046184
muh Ann Clayborne

>>8046737
Producing ozone from freeing all the trapped oxygen in the soil and atmospheric CO2.

>>8046732
>however you are still right because
>>doesn't have a magnetic field
>is pretty damn important, and that's not going away anytime soon

Would it be possible to synchronize the moons' orbits so that their gravitational tugging heats up the planet's core.

Yes, I know that Phobos and Deimos are incredibly small compared to most things, let alone Mars, and that it would have probably little to no effect, but it's fun to think about.

>>8046194
Once a heavy atmosphere is in place the ionosphere will block most of the really harmful radiation, converting gamma rays into UV rays, but we would still need to build habitats mostly underground such that the population could retreat to radiation shelters should a solar flare erupt towards Mars.

A geomagnetic field isn't needed to make Mars haibtable.

WORST CASE SCENARIO:
The mother of all solar flare erupts, sirens go off, and millions of Martians on the day side retreat to their sheltered homes. The flare hits the atmosphere bathing the surface of the planet in intense UV rays. Plant and animal life out in the open dies, but seeds and roots just below the surface regrow quickly and lucky animals repopulate almost as quickly.

An ecological disaster to be sure, but far from a deal breaker.

>>8045876
>putting a dead planet's welfare before humanity
its dead you moron.

You gonna prevent the mining of asteroids because one might have a fossilized bacterium?

>>8047151
You, I like.

Launch or build solar sails in space, use them to slowly carry cargo like robotic construction equipment for human colonies, and then re-purpose the sail as a solar mirror to melt the CO2 ice caps. After several generations there will be enough to make Mars a pretty warm place.

>>8046186
>4
>that twilight zone episode where americans are convinced they landed on the moon

oh... wait

>>8047763
>The flare hits the atmosphere
>atmosphere gone
>mfw no magnetic field

>>8046409
Why are you comparing one of the first nukes ever made, over 70 years ago, to the technology of today?

Do you think that mercury is good for you? Or that lead being put in paint is a good thing? 1940 is very different than today

>>8047715

I propose we should just blast Ceres into Mars' orbit and have it become Mars moon.

>>8048185
It took billions of years for Mars to lose it's atmosphere. It isn't a problem.

>>8047710
Geologist here ......... what?

>>8047773
Seal off olympus mons and let the adults play with the surface

>>8048267

musk wants to melt the martian ice caps with atmospheric nuclear detonations.

>>8046436
Nature =/= living you dumb shit. This is why casual astronomy books are under the "nature" section in the library.
>>8046184
>Don't know what's there
>"There's nothing there"
Remember when we though pressure was too high and the water was too dark for anything to live at the deepest parts of the ocean?

much better to mine Phobos dry in orbit, to reduce energy spent on sending material into orbit to construct Vesuvius pornographic space stations.

Any Bogdanovists here?

>>8048281
Ok, that's not going to create ozone on any timescale we care about. Atmospheric O2 was created around 2.3 billion years ago from what we learn of Banded Iron Formations, paleosols, and redbeds. Ozone wasn't present in the atmosphere at levels necessary to sustain life for another 300-400 million years (best estimate puts the ozone layer at 1.9 billion years ago).

You gonna wait the 300-400 million years for O2 to form Ozone there bub?

hmm you would destory this littel ass?

>>8046737
You know what created the ozone layer on Earth, right? The sun.

>>8048281
You know serious scientists working with Musk said it couldn't work after Musk backhandedly threw the idea out there off the top of his head?

>>8048203
I wasn't aware that radiation poisoning was something that we were able to improve on nuclear weapons.

Forgive me, I'm a lowly software developer.

>>8048324
That's how long it took to form naturally. Musk's description was to create what were essentially tiny pulsing suns over the ice caps, which would in theory speed the process up quite a bit.

Not saying it's viable, but we're not necessarily restrained to a millions of years timescale. Think about how fast we were able to affect our own ozone layer just by tweaking CFC emissions.

>>8048281
>>8048324
Why are you worrying about Ozone? I don't think anyone is going to be wearing short sleeves on Mars for awhile and whatever simple life we introduce won't be horribly affected by the extra UV light.

>>8046737
It has tons of perchlorates and oxides in the soil.
It's a ball of oxidizer and rust with a thin CO2 atmosphere.

Introduce cataclysmic amounts of heat and destruction then you can shape an thicker O2 atmosphere back up.

>>8048285
>Remember when we though pressure was too high and the water was too dark for anything to live at the deepest parts of the ocean?
No, I don't. Enlighten me.
>Don't know what's there
But that's bullshit. We've had numerous flybys and orbiters and half a dozen landings, most of which have involved months if not years of subsequent exploration. And as far as life goes, they haven't found shit. As for the bottom of the ocean, it took only a single 20-minute visit to confirm that life existed there. Still believing that life exists on Mars passed the boundary between speculative hope and delusion long ago.

>>8048324
>any timescale we care about
>You gonna wait the 300-400 million years

1: yes
2: it wouldn't take that long due to...humans

>>8048442
It wouldn't work. The planet really does need multiple and constant large scale bombardment using moons and giant asteroids/comets in order to create a atmosphere it can maintain.

Why Phobos? Wouldn't Deimos be far easier to crash into Mars than Phobos?

>>8045893
>>8045900
Hell yes. We literally nuke fear while colonizing Mars. I like the psychological kick.

>>8046393
>wikipedia

>>8048680
I advocate solar mirrors.

>>8048530
Because life cannot exist without the ozone layer ... at all. The only exception is underwater which filters out the UV radiation in the absence of the ozone layer. It's why life was confined to the oceans until enough ozone was created to protect surface life.

You'll get far less radiation of any sort on Mars due to the inverse square law and Mars's distance from the sun so I don't know how unhealthy it will be. It's perhaps worth figuring out but I'm a geologist, not a planetary scientist. Still, I can't imagine even at Mars's distance from the sun you'll be completely free from needing UV protection.

>>8048680
>it wouldn't take that long due to...humans
I agree with you perfectly. You're simply not going to form ozone by just simply releasing O2 and waiting for nature to do the rest unless you have patience to wait geological time scales. We manufacture ozone all the time, especially in car exhaust, on the surface of Earth it's pollution. Should be easy enough to make with machines, won't be cheap though.

>>8048827
What about algae just below the Martian regolith? It can photosynthesize and everything.

Otherwise, I suppose we just rely on aquatic photosynthesizing algae. Mars will have large bodies of water once we heat it and even more if we bombard it with water filled comets.

>>8048919
>Mars will have large bodies of water once we heat it and even more if we bombard it with water filled comets.
where the FUCK are you going to get comets from?

>>8045893
"If in doubt, nuke it."

~The human race

>>8049230
The planetary system around Sol.

>>8045878
This.

>>8045965
Would you leave everything behind and go on a 1 way trip to colonize Mars?

>>8045965
>>8050053
It's really disappointing how mundane mars is.

You know? As a kid I always imagined its surface blood red with towering spires of stone and shit.

>>8050053
Yes.

>>8050077
Mars is cool as hell. A geologist's wet dream.

>>8050077
>It's really disappointing how mundane mars is.
My life here on Earth is mundane as well.

Going to another planet has always been my dream.
If I don't have a family by that time I'll definitely go.

Besides, as a software engineer I can still work on Mars for a company on Earth.

>>8050090
>I can still work on Mars for a company on Earth.
Light delay is a bitch though.

>>8046184
>>8047765
Are you two actually too retarded to recognize something that is obviously a quote from a movie? Specifically James Cameron's Aliens?

I would say, "maybe you're just too young," but by now everyone's familiar with that franchise.

>>8047763
>solar flare erupts
>detected with machines operating with signals sent at light speed.
>UV rays travel at light speed
>Receive information to hide to deadly UV rays the instant UV rays obliterate your body.

>>8050156
Solar flares don't travel at light speed, because they aren't entirely light. They are helium and hydrogen atoms. Furthermore there are signs on the stars surface before it happens.

We have had solar flare warnings on Earth before.

>>8050162
>Solar flares don't travel at light speed
Their information does, and more importantly the electromagnetic radiation they give off does. I'll give you detection, but I don't think we're at the point where we have perfect forecasting ability for solar flares.

>>8045963
What do you think we are, fucking Krogans?

>>8050077
You've literally seen 0.000000000001% of the surface. There are probably thousands of amazing sights to be seen.

>>8045872
Self-replicating machines could each generate an electrostatic charge, pulling the dust towards the surface.

>>8046746
>God forgot to install a crank handle.
Not that anon but I keked heartily.

>>8048404
Thing is though it could work if we invested enough into it, really anything related to terraforming is "well, it's -technically- possible, but," and then a bunch of reasons why it's absurdly impractical or unrealistic. What's the issue with this plan is the way a nuclear detonation would eject material. I actually work with explosives for a living (well, partially) and a nuke is... well to put it in simple terms, the expansion is too goddamn fast. If you want to eject a lot of material the best way to do it is a slower explosion, something that builds up pressure and comes out as a wide, flat blob that carries a lot of material with it. Instead of a loud "bang" the explosion makes a hearty "whump" followed by a big geyser of soil/rock/whatever.

Off the top of my head you would need an absurd amount of small-yield devices drilled down far enough to get the desired results, but with unlimited time, money, and materials I think anyone with a bit of explosives know-how could pull it off.

>>8050169
>more importantly the electromagnetic radiation they give off does
Not the guy you're replying to but I thought the EM portion of a CME doesn't strip away nearly as much as the ejected particle stream, which is far, far more deadly according to everything I read. Even with an amazing as fuck ozone layer aren't GCR going to be blasting the surface of Mars with relativistic particles anyway? Martian architecture is going to be "anti-radiation" no matter how you slice it unless we somehow synthesize a magnetic field.

>>8050169
>radiation moves at the speed of light

wanna know how I know you don't know what you think you know?

[math]
\frac{\partial^2 f}{\partial x^2} = \frac{\partial^2 f}{\partial t^2} + tf

[math/]

>>8050318
[math]
\frac{\partial^2 f}{\partial x^2} = \frac{\partial^2 f}{\partial t^2} + tf

[/math]