/sci/ - Science & Math

>>7971906
>deserve

I don't quite think you understand how economics works, senpai. You don't "deserve" anything, you get what the market is willing to pay for your skills.

>>7971916
/thread

>>7971906
No.

>>7971916
Does the market understand the implications of the actions and choices made? I am not sure.

Most people will not care about R&D but expect new gizmos to materialize on the shelves. Except from when they get old, frail and ill, needing new medicine. by that time, however, it is way too late as medicine takes 15+ years to develop by which time they will be dead by their own decisions.

Not sure "deserve" is the right word. You might say the market deserves the consequences of its actions. And that is not always nice.

>>7972385
There's a bit more to it than that. How much your skill is worth is dependent on a lot of different things, among them:
>How many people can also do your job

Given that, and the large increase in STEM graduates in the past few years, you can expect to see downward pressure on wages in engineering, since if you don't want to work for 28k, there's someone else who will.

>>7972402
>There's a bit more to it than that. How much your skill is worth is dependent on a lot of different things, among them:
>>How many people can also do your job
When you are lying there, dying there the most important question is
>how quickly can you give me what I need??

I got a PhD, worked in R&D, experienced life in the trenches. I think many COULD have done my job, you can get far by just working with determination rather than by sheer brilliance.

Once I met someone at the very top of brilliance. It was an interesting experience and it made it very clear I was not in the top division. Nevertheless I did a job and delivered the results.

The only real issue here is "Who WOULD do this job?" And the job market shows that shopping is a more prestigious and respected activity than working in the labs.

I am not entirely convinced about the idea of downward pressure. My salary was so low that after paying for rent (cheap, with a relative), food (no alcohol, no tobacco), travel (commuting to work by public transport) and living like a monk (a girlfriend is the most expensive thing you could have) I still, at the end of the day, had hardly enough to pay down my student loans.

In fact I left R&D just to experience this Nirvana called "disposable income". Lower the income and people will be FORCED to leave, quickly. I turned to programming and thanks to massive overtime I could pay off my loans.

>>7972441
I don't know what else to tell you, the market doesn't think you deserve anything more than whatever else you got paid.

>>7972441
>no alcohol,

how

>mfw engineers are economically illiterate even though learning economic fluency is easy and available to all thanks to the internet

>>7971916
>You don't "deserve" anything, you get what the market is willing to pay for your skills.
Found the Trump voter.

There's a difference between intrinsic value and market value.
Anyone who contributes to society deserves something.
That amount is almost unrelated to what the market pays.

Opie's question is perfectly valid, although I have to say that since labor supply ALWAYS exceeds demand, almost everyone deserves more than they're paid.
See also: GINI Index

>>7972496
>He actually believes things have intrinsic value

BWAHAHAHAHAHA.

>>7972504
>>He actually believes things have intrinsic value
OK, try not eating for a week.
Or building a house with no materials.
'tard
Oh, wait, you mean "there's no objective way of determining the numeric value of something's intrinsic value"
...as it turns out, you're still wrong.

But I'm more concerned about your decision to fuel your sense of self-worth by believing that being more cynical than others makes you superior.
That's a dark path, Anon.

>>7972514
Not him, but things don't have intrinsic value. Value is placed by people from the getgo.

>Anyone who contributes to society deserves something

This was a, somewhat arbitrary, human value-assignment.

>>7972470
ABET accredited engineering programs require students to take Micro, Macro, and Engineering Economics and is also a part of the FE exam so I don't know where you came up with that.

>>7972514
>There is an objective way of pricing labor

Call off the strike boys, anon has a way to resolve all our issues.

>inb4 Black-Scholes and asset pricing.

>>7972534
>Not him, but things don't have intrinsic value.
Why am I not surprised.
According to /sci/, there's no such thing as:
> time
> free will
> gravity
...and QM is somehow completely wrong.

>>7972540
>>There is an objective way of pricing labor
Nice strawman, but clearly if market value exceeds intrinsic value, the business will fail.
Market value places a lower bound on labor cost, and intrinsic value places an upper limit.

>>7972640
Can't say I understand what you're trying to say. I think you're using a definition different from the common one.

What is intrinsic value, as you are using it?

Well theres alot more ppl who can deal with 1 language (their fucking native tongue) than there are who can deal with equations(engineering)
Alot of bureacracy in america seeks to make the lives of engineers easier and the lives of lawyers/social workers more complicated- in order to justify paying someone for being able to use language at a high level (lawyer/prosecutor) even when nothing is gained by society by doing this. All we get is a useless language arms race that does not move the football one inch. Meanwhile, an engineering arms race as an anecdote would lead to better lives for everybody thru better, cheaper technology.

>>7971906
Teachers?
Grad students
Post docs
Resident doctors

>>7972441
What were you getting paid doing R&D and where? I just interviewed for an R&D type position, but it's at a big place where I can only imagine I'd be compensated pretty well, at least considering I'll be a fresh B.S. graduate

>>7972496
>Found the Trump voter

>>www.9gag.com

>>7972455
Easy. No money -> no alcohol.
Also working with dangerous equipment means you have to stay stone cold sober. I have had a few close shaves and I contributed to the precious lab accident thread.

>>7972534
>Not him, but things don't have intrinsic value. Value is placed by people from the getgo.
There is no doubt that value is placed by people. too many assume that the same people are informed. They are not. A guy selling an old picture for a tenner might be satisfied - until he hears that it was made by a famous painter and worth millions. People like that believe in pure market value until this happens to them.

The actors in the market
are not fully informed
too often believe they are informed
place wrong emphasis on future worth
too rarely take future trends into considerations.

Have you ever read texts on economic theory?

>>7972453
>I don't know what else to tell you, the market doesn't think you deserve anything more than whatever else you got paid.
>>7972453
>the market doesn't think
We kind of agree.

>>7973602
I worked in several countries and it is hard to compare dollars and yen. in relative terms I was paid half of what someone at the same age with a BSc only would have gotten in industry.

> it's at a big place where I can only imagine I'd be compensated pretty well
I hope so for your sake but this sounds a bit like the Shangri La division of Nirvana Inc.

You might want to look into your job paying you to get a PhD while working there. Always improve on your CV/Linkedin profile. And always have a Plan B for an exit.

>>7972496
>Anyone who contributes to society deserves something.
>That amount is almost unrelated to what the market pays.


Found the Bernie voter.

>>7973688
>> it's at a big place where I can only imagine I'd be compensated pretty well
>I hope so for your sake but this sounds a bit like the Shangri La division of Nirvana Inc.
40-50 billion USD revenue big

>You might want to look into your job paying you to get a PhD while working there
they asked in the interview about if i'd thought about grad schol and i said yeah but i wanted to find a job that could offer me some research experience first, to see if that was really something i was interested in or if it just sounded good on paper.

but honestly I hope to work there and get lots of exposure to a number of different projects and disciplines, and the project i'd be working on has great funding for at least 2 years, im just a bit weary after that point, about whether they'd keep me on.

>>7971916
>You don't "deserve" anything, you get what the market is willing to pay for your skills.

Post of the year.

>>7973694
He's not completely wrong. You can't make a profit paying workers what they're actually producing.

>>7972514
"Our" is not pronounced "are".

>>7973769
What is capitals share of output.

Blue collar jobs.
But that's because I'm too lazy to learn and welding is easy as shitting.
It already pays pretty well.

I don't actually belief I "objectively" deserve anything

>>7972514
Logical Fallacies: The Post

>>7973776
Yes it is

Are you a burgerlandian or a chav?

>>7973843
Only in certain dialects.

>>7971906
>are engineers the only people in society who deserve to be paid more than they currently earn?

some of them deserve less and some of them deserve more

>>7971916
>What the market wants
The market doesnt know shit about what it wants. Why do you think stock prices always fluctuate.

>>7971916
deserving is not about the mechanisms of how or why you get money...

If you look at the impact on living quality that engineers have and had, yes they absolutely deserve more. Though researchers in most fields deserve a lot more compared to corporate monkeys. If your job is using excel you probably deserve a lot less than you'll earn.