/sci/ - Science & Math

Where is Philosophy ?

somebody post the /sci/ edits

>>7962110
It's on top, saying "You need to think outside the box", because science and math people are stuck in their science and math ideology, similar to a box

>>7962120
This thread btfo. Math and Science untermensch rekt again.

>>7962120
Found it

>>7962120

>purity
Who cares? Math alone didn't do anything, you need to apply it to real-life.

>>7962108
Technically speaking a papaver somniferum field would be purest, as it is the source of the heroin.

>>7962135
Physics gets pretty philosophical, though. Some physicists did experiments to try to determine if light had consciousness with the whole wave/particle duality.

50/50

>>7962120
That box is usefulness

>>7962135

>>7962180
Bullshit

>>7962246
kek

>>7962108
Out of curiosity, what good is a math degree other than a bragging tool on /sci/?

>>7962301
It gives you the chance of working in virtually any part of industry or academia if you have the right contacts

>>7962135
>>7962297

>>7962299
consciousness is a bit of a pretentious way to put it

more like whether the particle wave duality is predicted by the projectile before it strikes the half-silver mirror

not to throw around accusations but /pol/ was discussing some video of a quack scientist explaining this yesterday who later embarked into explorations of the paranormal like the spirit and ghosts and telepathy
most of them only stuck around for the first 15 minutes where he explained the experiment

>>7962303
>studying to get a job

>>7962306
Philosophy and mathematics are somewhat closely related though. With logic, axioms and whatnot.

>>7962335
>With logic, axioms and whatnot.
Are barely involved in any philosopher's work.

>>7962335
Analytic philosophy master race.

>>7962339
You do realize not all philosophy is conty bullshit right?
Philosophy of math and of science is still philosophy.

Daily reminder that logic is a part of philosophy.

>>7962340
Analytic philosophy is shit tier.

>>7962346
>You do realize not all philosophy is conty bullshit right?
You do realize not all philosophy is logic, right?

>Philosophy of math and of science is still philosophy.
..what? Philosophy of math and science doesn't need to use axioms and logic in the formal sense.

>Daily reminder that logic is a part of philosophy.
Yeah, no shit.

>>7962347
>mfw

>>7962349
>You do realize not all philosophy is logic, right?
Yes, of course, but logic is still an incredibly vast area of it.

>..what? Philosophy of math and science doesn't need to use axioms and logic in the formal sense.
What? All of those fields extensively use formal logic axioms. Have you never heard of say Principia Mathematica or Godel's incompleteness theorems?

>Yeah, no shit.
So you're agreeing with me? How can logic be barely involved with philosophers works if it is a part of philosophy itself?

>>7962360
>>mfw
Bertrand Russell, the guy who's life work got btfo by an autistic logician and literally quit trying logic because Wittgenstein destroyed him? Wittgenstein, the guy who accused logicians of creating thousands of different ways to state tautologies?

That guy?

I can only say one thing: *tips fedora*. Go read more.

>Yes, of course, but logic is still an incredibly vast area of it.
Logic is an incredibly minor sect of it. 95% of philosophers do not study logic. They are familiar with it's methods, but they don't study logic. You're making a categorical error.

>Have you never heard of say Principia Mathematica or Godel's incompleteness theorems?
hur de hur de hur
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_science
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/philosophy-mathematics/

You're using language entirely wrong. Godel's theorems are not "philosophy of mathematics", it is mathematics itself.

>So you're agreeing with me? How can logic be barely involved with philosophers works if it is a part of philosophy itself?
It's used as a structure of analytic philosophy, but isn't the subject of any philosophy. But all people use logic all of the time, it's just autistic when analytic philosophy tries to do it.

>>7962108
I actually think this comic is quite accurate - except for the mathematician but that's another debate - but it doesn't mean the people on the right are more valuable than those on the left. A doctor is someone who is just applying medical knowledge, but who would you rather take with you on a deserted island, a doctor or a physicist? (inb4 island is Lost and you need the physicist to get off of it)

Just because physics studies the building blocks of the universe, doesn't mean a physicist can help plan a subway system for a city, whereas a sociologist could.

>>7962301
an undergrad in math will get you into grad school for economics, not that I can understand why anyone would want to do that, but it's quite common.

Very true. It has been determined that sociologists are the biggest sluts and mathematicians get less sex than a nun with a cold.

[spoilers]Report for degree warfare bullshit [/spoilers]

>>7962110
smoking weed and looking at their hand

>>7962369
His thoughts and works are still usefull man, I know we can't actually ground math 100% in pure logic but he is still worth studying.

>Logic is an incredibly minor sect of it. 95% of philosophers do not study logic. They are familiar with it's methods, but they don't study logic. You're making a categorical error.
Have you never openend even seen what kind of classes do phil majors have? Phil majors study fucktons of logic man.

>hur de hur de hur
>http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/philosophy-mathematics/
Do you even read the links you copy-paste? The incompleteness theorems are mentioned there.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/goedel-incompleteness/
Of course philosophy of math uses maths, the incompleteness theorems are both philosophy of math and math itself.

It's used as a structure of analytic philosophy, but isn't the subject of any philosophy. But all people use logic all of the time, it's just autistic when analytic philosophy tries to do it.

>It's used as a structure of analytic philosophy, but isn't the subject of any philosophy. But all people use logic all of the time, it's just autistic when analytic philosophy tries to do it.
Hurrr
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-classical/
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logical-pluralism/
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-modal/

>>7962393
>be math major
>get laid

Where do programmers and computer scientists fall into this?

>>7962402
>Phil majors study fucktons of logic man.
Yes, because they use it all of the time in their autistic way of doing philosophy, that doesn't mean they are studying logic itself as professional philosophers. Nobody studying ethics is studying logic, they just use logic. Logic is just a tool. Not commonly a subject of study. I don't know why you can't grasp the simple distinction

>>7962411
Between "anime watchers" and "fedora tippers"

>>7962108
Biology, chemistry and physics are like a holy trinity where math is both above them and useful for all of them.

When you're trying to theorize on a mechanism of action in biology, it's just like making a theory in physics. see data, make theory, get more data, modify parameters.

>>7962421
>t. biologist

People literally think that proofs and numbers exists without humans, just like other people claim that Harry potter exists without humans, just like other people claim that God exists without humans. This is where we are in 2016....
What seems to last forever is the stupidity of the humanity to cling to the notion of eternity.

>>7962419
But anon, if they use it as a tool they obviously study it, I know it's not the main focus of say ethicists, but there are plenty of logicians and relevant works that specifically encompass logic itself.

>>7962435
math is just an abstraction of geometric ratios

>>7962443
go to bed pythagoras
the dream died

>>7962447
fuck u guys i figured out the earth was round in 500 bc kill yourself

>>7962436
Yes, it is an area of philosophy, but the majority of philosophers do not study logic in that sense.

>>7962339
lmao bud you can't possibly believe logic ISN'T a cornerstone of philosophy

>>7962339
Formalized proofs are the core of philosophy, though.
Except they tend to be more general and abstracted.

>>7962108
Math is just applied physics, same with philosophy.

>>7962400
have you ever smoked weed?

>>7963085

smoking weed is a cornerstone of philosophy

>>7962143
top banter

>>7962335
Yeah, philosophy is related to math in the same way astrology is related to astrophysics.

>>7962297
Hehehehehehehehehehehehahahahaha

>>7962111

>>7965927
It's the other way around, though.

I've come to the conclusion Russel spent his entire life being skeptic about everything just to become a meme.

>>7963783
To someone who never ever gave a fuck about anything with the astro- prefix, what is this supposed to mean?

>>7965994
You are a moron.

>>7962108

it is completely false because grils can't do math.

>>7962435
depends on perspective really

>>7965965
*tips fedora*

Don't you DARE question religion or I will bring out all my pictures of ugly men in hats.

>>7966115
nice shitpost.
Next time add a cute anime girl to it too, like this.

scientist cannot talk about philosophy since they never did it

>>7966698
Epistemology is how we avoid the plague of letting consensus decide.

>>7962309
>>7962180

t. people who make me refuse to talk about being a physicist outside of my university and immediate family

jesus christ put down the popsci for half an hour and pick up an actual physics book

>>7962436

So are you saying that physicists study math? Bullshit anon, if anything we abuse math by handwaving rigor and not actually understanding what the theorems allow and prevent us from claiming.

Same thing with philosophy and logic, I imagine, is the point that >>7962419 is trying to make.

You can't do anything without math
You can do anything with math

math > anything else

Philosophy, religion, sociology, all that meme material is NOT /sci/

>>7966698
philosopher cannot talk about science since they never did it

>>7967633
Mario Bunge disagrees

>>7966118
Sento isn't cute

>>7966118
this is very sound advice

>>7962135
>>7962297
>>7962306


All these "edits" and the "Mathematician" is still a woman.

>>7968715
There are a lot of women in mathematics.

>>7968670
He studied physics.

>>7968722
>Women undergrad
ftfy

>>7962429
lmao who ever made that is an asshat. But it's funny.

What an asshat though.

>>7962409
grammar got fukt in the end doe

>>7969573
Well, /his/ created it so...

Philosophers invented (litterally) the experimental approach that is the basis for all science.

>>7969579
Philosophers were also proto-biologists and proto-physicists.

>>7969579
...and now they're completely irrelevant

Are they though ? When you study math or any science at all really, if you look up the names you're hearing about you'll find lots of philosophers.

empirical proof is an oxymoron, not wonder it stems from philosophers

>>7962108

>>7969613
honestly engineers should be way down the list in terms of purity, maybe between biologists and chemists. but still accurate depiction

>>7969620
engineers do not cling to their fantasy of truth and objective reality, so they are purer than any believers in god and science

>>7969520
No, I know a lot of female mathematicians.

It's not really true at all. Biology isn't 'just' applied chem, there are many fields of biology that are only tangentially related to chemistry or not at all (e.g. Cladistics, bioinformatics, gross anatomy, etc.) and a lot of chem knowledge is derived empirically rathe than imputed from knowledge of physics.

>>7969647
I'm an engineer but you're trying to troll.

>>7962379
Lol no, you need an engineer for that or city planner, that would also be an engineer. Who are pretty heavy on math and physics

>>7967008
>You can't do anything without logic
>You can do anything with logic

Went deeper

>>7969649
Man I am legitimately jelly. I know that, in theory, there's no reason women can't into STEM, but it's just so hard for me to picture it. No matter how much people talk about it, I just can't change my beliefs on the matter until I've actually met a decent female mathematician. My want to believe can't translate into actual believe.

>>7962108
All sciences are just applied launguage.

Thus there are no fields of science purer than the Latin since all languages worth speaking are based in Latin and the Latin major is the purest of all scientists with which all knowledge can trace it's lineage to.

>>7970479
>all languages worth speaking
I legitimately believe you're an honest /sci/ poster.

>>7968791
Exactly. And he is a philosopher (the philosopher, some would say).

>>7970479
And english, my friend?
Or in a romance language,
Y que pasa con el inglés, gringo?

>>7969579
Well, if you say that everyone who has a semblance of critical skill a philosopher, theb sure.

>>7970741
But he studied a science before making retarded claims about the subject.

>>7970835
I guess that it therefore disproves the claim which claimed "philosopher cannot talk about science since they never did it".
> also, aristotle, pithagoras, etc scientists.

>>7970840
>ancient Greece science
>anything to do with modern theory
Nigger

>>7970846
> a2+b2=c2
> somehow not science

Also, first point still stands. Also ma whig B-Russell

>>7970853
>math
>science
Read the Wikipedia article at least fucking hell

>>7970879
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science
Kek. Did you?

>>7970746
Yo se espanol es obvio dije lo que dije y lo que dije .

Or maybe 'verncerius vere sencerious' equates better?

Faggot.

>it's the i only learned one area and didn't apply myself to be multidisciplinary because i'm an incompetent human being with an inferiority complex thread

it should be illegal to go to university for only one degree.

>>7970901
Es duro andar con un teclado sin la ñ. Estás viviendo en anglo? O es que 4c cambia los caracteres?

>>7970903
Shut up, nerd.

>>7970891
>"cience[nb 1]is a systematic enterprise that creates, builds and organizesknowledgein the form of testableexplanationsandpredictionsabout theuniverse.[nb 2][2]:58"

Yea I love that proof of Fermats last theorem were you check for the first 1000 values.

>>7970853
>a2+b2=c2
wrong

>>7970903
The only reason you can manage more than one degree is that your degrees are easy.

fixd

>>7970840
back then most philosophers werent just philosophers, they were also mathematicians etc

>>7970908
>
Contemporary science is typically subdivided into the natural sciences which study the material world, the social sciences which study people and societies, and the formal sciences like mathematics.
Didnt even make it to the second sentence

>>7970472
Have you ever considered that you might be
...sexist?

>>7970906
Sí me da pereza a unicode la """ñ """. Yo soy copy-pasted la ñ de ti. Dos veces, so.

Did 4chan do it yes and no, 4chan doesn't change characters but on 4chan I also don't actually care.

I should though, you called me out and triggered me I was not expecting that.

>>7970932
8/10
THERE IS A REASON THEY DIVIDED LIKE THAT YOU STUPID FUCK.

>>7970933
No. I just haven't met any mathematician women. I never went looking though.

>>7970935
Just admit it.

>>7970912
keep telling yourself that you fucking troglodyte.

>>7962108
It's a stupid restatement of a common but serious misconception.

Not even talking about including mathematicians on that line, which is the most obviously wrong thing. Or including sociology and psychology as if they were at all the same sort of thing as the hard sciences.

No, I mean that chemistry is NOT applied physics, and biology is NOT applied chemistry. Reductionists like physicists extract essential features of systems, in the manner of a summary or overview, they don't master them entirely and describe them completely.

Even in physics, people aren't just taught the most fundamental level of understanding, and then derive the ones above it from that. They study each level of abstraction and area of application as its own thing, with only moderate attention to the links between them.

Even when it seems that it should be possible to derive a higher level model from a lower-level one, it is often infeasible to actually check whether this produces correct results, due to intractable mathematical complexity. So we're frequently in the situation of believing that two models are consistent without knowing.

The relation between chemistry and physics is like that. It seems like you ought to be able to derive everything in chemistry from quantum mechanics, but you can't. It's a little more obvious that no amount of chemistry knowledge is going to replace biology.

>>7962339
Fucking moron

>>7969565
>lmao im butthurt. whoever made that is wrong. my butts sore though

jokings over

>>7962346
WE WUZ LOGICIANS AND MATHEMATICIANS AND SCIENTISTS N SHIET

>>7970933
>hurts muh feelings lolz im a girl XD!

>>7971050
Game programmer and part time god here. Pic is wrong.

>not realizing it's all a lie

>>7971123
still wrong

>>7971142
almost there

>>7962110
Philosophy is theory, and the image is applied theory.

>>7971123
>>7971142
>>7971163
This is some top quality shitpost here. It's rare around here.

>>7962135
The box describes what is, outside describes what could be. Both serve their own purpose.

>>7962180
Christ

>>7965927
Lmfao

>>7969647
Nigger what

>>7970933
Have you considered you might be... retarded?

>>7971163
found the one pure field

>>7970924
Theology is out of the picture, perfect!

>>7971186
Metafields are the least pure thing.

shitty titty

>>7971050
Top quality work

>>7962429
all that statements ends with a question requesting a third opinion on what he does.

but why would a mathematician care about society.

matemathics doesn't need the society to exist it doesn't even need the universe.

>>7962135
BTFO

>>7965927
why can't I hold all these bantz?

>>7965965

>>7967633
Yes, but they damn well invented it.

>>7968676
Sento is very cute.

>>7962301
Actuary

Making the big bucks

Aside from that it's essentially just being able to make other people think you're smart

>>7962301
300k starting

>>7970472
I've met one once during my Erasmus, she was mastering in dynamical systems and analysis.
The rest of female mathematicians I've met were either future high school teachers or consultancy meat.

>>7971186
There is always another pattern to derive.

>>7962135
The box represents having a job

>>7962135
the reality

>>7973590
>philosophy majors actually see themselves as 'The thinker' looking innovators and geniuses.

How can one be so delusional?

>>7973527
I tried zooming all the way out but I hit the Dunbar number and stopped counting. Am I doing it right?

>>7970746

>romance language

Verpiss dich.

>>7962110
Cucked in the corner, watching as the sciences have their way with reality

>>7965927
shitposting is just applied autism

>>7974483
Says the cuck who faps in a lab while philosophy bros fuck 10s

>>7962108

Everything is false except for mathematicians.

>>7962335
>Philosophy and mathematics are somewhat closely related

u guise can rel8 :^)

>>7974829
>he discriminates people through the ability to please the few women who notice them


what a true wormy fagtron we have here

Holy fuck this thread is still here? /Sci/ moves as fast as it's discoveries.

>>7970924
Winrar

>>7962108
How true is this comic?
Comics like much art in the world, hold multiple truths and no truth at all.

>>7976607
Parts are technically true in a useless way. Yes, all biological phenomena are ultimately explainable by chemistry. This does mean it is 'just' applied chemistry, or otherwise a less-legitimate field of study.

Math should be placed on a second axis if anything, but in any case arranging fields by 'purity' (with an unstated, incoherent, and useless definition of purity) isn't really helpful to begin with.

>>7976704
Why can't math be complete and what does the guy on the end finally see?

>>7976704
Well, if Mochizuki is participating...

>>7976890
>>7976890
>Why can't math be complete

Godel's theorems, newfag

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems

>>7976904
Incompleteness is just a theory.

>>7976892
>>7976704

I'm only a brainlet.
What's Mochizuki about ?

>>7977123
so is gravity, so unless you have an actual counterpoint, we may get on with our lives

>>7962108
Every science is based on paradigms

>>7977135
Nuh uh. A theory means that if I want it to be wrong because of my political or religious beliefs then it is wrong.

>>7977127
Mochizuki studies formal complexity under the guise of algebraic geometry. His work centers around non-polynomial problem spaces.

Where are the Austrian economists?