/sci/ - Science & Math

>>7897234
>Canma Cari
Wow that's surprisingly realistic

>>7897234
Yes

>>7897234

Orrlu Frant

hella lame

Carth evhar.

Shit

>>7897234
>Larto Hetro

>>7897234
>Lowan Lored
I like it

>>7897334
>>7897288
best ones so far

>>7897247
>>7897288
>>7897300
>>7897331
>>7897334
>>7897338
>>7897344
>>7897345
What do these posts have to do with science?

>>7897350
Star Wars is SCIENCE fiction

>>7897350
What does the fucking OP have to do with science. Just more shitty CS-related garbage that's been infesting the board lately.

>>7897350
nothing

>>7897247
>four letter last name
You fucked up

>>7897234
gomcha judeb

I don't even know.

>>7897381
How do you know that I wasn't born in the fabled city of Ri?

>>7897234
Anth Vetol

pretty good tbqh

>>7897234
>Do they let just anyone graduate?
Pretty much.

But the problem doesn't lie there. Every CS major could graduate and still remember how to do these things but there is a problem unique to CS that stems from how poorly cobbled together it is as a 4 year degree (it shouldn't be one, for starters).

Let me give you an example with my own degree, mathematics.

The first year we focus on three things, geometry, calculus and algebra. The 3 things are pretty much connected and as we move from I to II to III there is a clear progression that allows us to swallow all of it and have it stay in our minds.

Then the next year we start doing differential equations, linear algebra, algebraic geometry.
Once again, a linear jump of topics that are all connected .

The third year the usual abstract algebra, analysis and topology, which are jumps directly from algebra, calculus and geometry. etc. etc.

You see that linear progression? Everything fits, everything builds upon something else.

Now, what do you have in a CS degree?

1st year: Basically Software Engineering + Calculus.

2nd year: Basically Software Engineering II but now no calculus.

Fair enough, it keeps building up...

3rd year: Okay we are serious now. Discrete maths and theoretical CS

Wait what? We've been coding java applets for 2 years. Where does this come from?

4th year: Okay we scientific code monkeys now. Machine learning, AI, image processing

What the fuck? Where did the math go? What are we even doing now?

And that is the problem with CS. A degree for monkeys made by other monkeys that is as consistent as a bad anime's plot. It is no wonder that no one remembers shit when the moment you step into the next semester, everything you learned before is immediately thrown out of the window to pack even more inconsitent shit in.

Go look for any CS curriculum and tell me this isn't true.

>>7897234
Breru Busai

>>7897426
>ai
>where did the math go?
AI is pretty much math

Same goes for ML (a part of AI) and image processing

>>7897234

What if my mother has no maiden name?

In CS you should graduate knowing:
-data structures
-algorithm
-run time analysis of algorithms
-how to do your own run time analysis of algorithms
-design your own algorithms
-prove program correctness
-computational complexity
-how to do mathematical proofs

In addition to CS majors should take:
-graph theory
-combinatorics
-course in computability theory (math department)
-real analysis
-abstract algebra
-measure theory
-topology

>>7897450
Then you should kill you're self

>>7897455

> you're

Meted Garoc.

Metal af.

>>7897454
Is topology really useful for CS? Probably better to do some stochastic processes, statistics, or why not game theory or coding theory.

>>7897440
But that is not a natural progression of topics. You don't do a year of discrete math and then jump on to AI. There is always much more in math to learn but instead CS decides to skip it for the applications.

The reality is that CS could focus only on core SE and Math and then have AI, Graphics, etc. as 1 year masters programs but no. That is why OP keeps meeting people who don't even know the basics.

>>7897457
your new here right?

>>7897469
Actually remove measure theory and topology. I detract those. Statistics and probability courses would be much more benefiting. Your right

In Finland universities get paid per graduate so they basically avoid anything people struggle with in exams

>>7897476
This also happens in the US. The government should regulate final exams.

Seriously, the government should simply hire 1 CS PhD, 1 math PhD, 1 PhD of every popular field in STEM and have them design the final exams for the seniors of their discipline. Then have that final exam be worth 100% of the grade so the only way to pass your senior year and graduate is to pass that exam.

Then simply pay these PhDs for their time and not for how many retards pass their test, that way they have no reason to make it easy.

>Go look for any CS curriculum and tell me this isn't true.
Yessir.
https://cs.illinois.edu/current-students/undergraduates/undergraduate-curriculum-requirements#BSENG

Stebe Sccle

Do not like

>>7897481
I would prefer a clear 1 - 4 year layout of the degree but whatever.

From the BS in CS (ENG) these are the topics they make the monkeys jump around on:

Writing, writing, engineering, chemistry, chemistry, Physics, humanities, language, CS, Mathematics, Mathematics Mathematics, Theoretical CS, Theoretical CS, Soft CS, Software Engineering, Computer Engineering, Software Engineering, Soft CS, Theoretical CS.

Fuck me with a gay raccoon if I had to jump to and from so many disconnected pieces of shit I would too be a useless faggot.

Ovaale Moba

>Kyrer Lirg
seems pretty legit honestly. wonder how many names they made up this way

>>7897491
They put you through that shit, because you have to work with people from all of those fields in most cs jobs. You also need to be able to be capable of very clear communication, if you're doing something like systems analysis. You get all of the non cs stuff out of the way in the first two years.
Also, the physics courses are good practice for proofs, when you think about it.

You can't sit there and tell me you didn't have to take "any" writing, sciences, or foreign language in your math undergrad. Look again at that page. All of the non-cs and non-math courses are college requirements, as in everyone with a major at the college of engineering needs them. Granted, I don't think the UIUC even has a dedicated math major.

>>7897513
This writing shit should happen in HS

>>7897234
Thocl Nahal

>>7897513
>foreign languages
You only need English

>>7897513
>They put you through that shit
Sure but then don't expect anyone to be a master of anything and instead be almost good at everything.

>"any" writing

I take two writing classes but they were not 'composition' xD write me a story type of writing. I have to take Report Writing I and II, actual technical classes about writing in a professional environment, as it applies to mathematics.

>sciences
I take General Physics I and II.

>foreign language
Fuck no. This is the most retarded shit. This is not professional, unless you major in language, you should learn your languages outside of a university. There are plenty of courses out there.

So I have to take 4 classes of non-math that are still pretty applicable in math. That is the difference.

>>7897517
It does. The course offers practically nothing that you don't get out of a high school English class, except a crazier instructor.
You're aware that university is a business, yes?
>>7897526
I don't know about that, but I do know that most foreign language courses are completely fucking useless. You don't learn a language in a class room. You learn it the same way a 7 year-old learns it. Babbling at someone who speaks the language.

>>7897234
>Aleph Potor
That's pretty boss sounding actually.
And I think that you get that because most students can choose their degree elements to a point, and focus more on the programming aspect of what's offered. That and the math we get taught is a mish mash of everything, with only one or two pure algorithms courses offered.

>>7897566
>[math] \aleph _{ \text { Potor } } [/math]

Niiice.

>>7897234
Lloma Flant

>>7897426

Well, for one there should be calculus in 2nd year too (calc 3) (and stats, linear algebra (if not in 1st year), diff eq. Also we had discrete math in 1st and 2nd year (2 courses).

Although I do agree there should be a bit more math. Maybe an extra course or two. Although I could be biased about that since I study math.

>>7897717
That would be a good idea but I'm not arguing for there to be more math in CS.

The average programmer doesn't need that much math, I know because that is what I currently do until I start uni next month.

All CS needs to produce better graduates is to sort itself out and create a linear progression of knowledge that doesn't make any weird jumps towards the 'fancy' topics like AI.

>>7897798
Mods just can't into star wars

>>7897798
No. He deleted your post because it had nothing to do with the topic.

>>7897811
may as well delete every other post here then? and i thought sci janitors were above average

>>7897234
Because CS majors are the dumbest people in university. Even certified retards are smarter than them.

Tsama Totor

>wasting time doing something a computer can do better and faster

pants on head retarded

Lehmi Erlin

took the maiden name of my father.

>>7897895

Then you must be one of them when you believe the post in that picture.

>>7897234
>Nuner Bufor
Shit name desu :^(

>>7897481
>Garbage single architecture class that spends most of it's time on digital logic and not architecture
>A few complexity topics in algorithms in lieu of a theory of computation class
>A required "Programming Studio" to learn source control, SQL, and PHP and nothing else
>Only one Probability course and it's the "for CS" watered down kind
>Garbage discrete math course using Rosen
>No compilers
>No programming theory
>No OS design
>No machine learning
>No computer graphics or vision
>No fleshed out combinatorics and graph theory courses
>No algebra
>No analysis
>No numerical analysis
>No optimization

SHIT, COMPLETE SHIT.

>>7897949

I've seen advanced CS classes, a retard could totally ace them with little effort

>>7897331
More lake later homo LMAO

Roshe Guana
Ehh

>>7898210
Kekkk

>>7897357
If you don't like CS then get off the fucking computer you dip. Shows how grateful you are.

>>7897426
You obviously don't understand shit about CS. Please leave and return when you aren't a pretentious douchebag.

>>7898312
>CS
>responsible for technology

pick only one

Asymptotic upper bounds are generally a far easier problem then proving algorithmic correctness.

>>7897895
Why is everyone that hates on CS still alive, even if they are a troll? Do you not like having computers? Thinking that CS is shit is equivalent to being a total shit.

/sci/
where butthurt hard science majors complain about the cs-tards making more money than them.

>>7898334
God, I hope you are not actually this stupid.

>>7898341
>What is EE
>What is CE
>What is MatSci

CS' contributions to technology are trivial in comparison.

>>7898339
>making more money

Any STEM major can get a CS job easily and make the same amount of money. CS majors, on the other hand, are growingly being blacklisted in their own field since they have such a poor track record.

>>7898337
>Why is everyone that hates on business majors still alive, even if they are a troll? Do you not like having stores? Thinking that business is shit is equivalent to being a total shit.

>>7898358
>Any STEM major can get a CS job easily
Nah. maybe at old school big defense places but that shit is happening less and less these days.

Holja walin

>>7898378
It happens everywhere.

Cruni Haupp

Pretty baller.

>>7898348
>Efficient algorithms are useless
Apex kek

>>7898509
>efficient algorithms are hard to come up with

Outside of a few niches, algorithms really haven't "revolutionize" the world and the best algorithms are usually the straightforward trivial ones.

Meanwhile, EE has completely changed the face of the world

>>7897234
Monce Rovis

ehh

>>7898320
>Complete, informed and rational criticism of what he believes is the problem with CS that went probably near the character limit to express his ideas

Response from a braindead CS major: XD U DON NOU SHIT U DUMMM DUSHBEEEG!

Yup. Thanks for proving us all right. You are but a group of salty monkeys jumping around and shitting the place. Go back to /g/ you little sperg.

>>7898555
>Outside of a few niches, algorithms really haven't "revolutionize" the world
Three-way handshake?

PageRank?

Some people just forget shit they don't use.

Proving runtime or correctness shouldn't actually be something that cs majors "don't use", though. Because proving correctness is essential when "just werks" heuristics aren't really enough for something like an input validator and you have crazy edge cases that break software and you end up with shit like mysql injections everywhere.

>Wiljo Flfli
what the fuc

>>7898358
>>7898358
>still posting this pic after it was BTFO
This anti-CS guy is a very dedicated troll

>>7898656
delete this

>>7898666
Only because lovely trips and Darwinism.

>>7898666
What was it, Satan?

>>7898629
>Three-way handshake?

You think TCP handshakes are a revolutionary idea?

Did you know there is a board dedicated to technology and CS? Check it out: >>>/g/

>>7898681
Differenr anon. I find that board almost insufferable. None of them discuss math and it's all tech shit I don't care about.

>>7898614
>Response from a braindead CS major: XD U DON NOU SHIT U DUMMM DUSHBEEEG!

Happens every single time.

>>7898681
>You think TCP handshakes are a revolutionary idea?
You asked for things that revolutionized the world, of which the TCP/IP stack clearly qualifies.

I guess they don't teach you basic reading comprehension in your pure math degree.

>>7898690

No, the networking hardware did. TCP/IP and using sockets are the most trivial components of the internet.

>>7898687

Still your containment board.

>>7898665
>BTFO

It's a real job posting.

>troll

Just because someone points out something you don't like doesn't make them into a troll

luka juday

>>7898702
>>7898702
>No, the networking hardware did. TCP/IP and using sockets are the most trivial components of the internet.

without an agreed-upon standard for communications protocols, the hardware is useless, a glorified paperweight

just lol @ you if you think the primitive OSI level 1 and level 2 hardware and shit like bridges and repeaters are more impressive than a suite of standardized protocols agreed on by literally everyone since the 1980s.

Even Cisco considers itself more of a software company.

>>7898709
Go away troll.

Because computer science and programming are becoming increasingly separate, and most CS programs just focus on making you a good code monkey.

>>7898724

Tell me about how many free IP addresses are left with you perfectly engineered software stack.

All the real challenges in creating the internet and wifi were EE challenges. The CS stuff was just turning the crank.

>>7898726

Stop being delusional.

>>7897735
AI(ML) course is hardly a jump, like you said, its in the 4th year and usually right after statistics and probability course, and half fo ML depends on stats and probability.

And you dont see any "linear progression" because you are lumping all CS courses as "Software Engineer", but there is a linear progress(ex, Data structures+DM -> Algorithms)

>>7898733
What about asymmetric key encryption?

>>7898733
>Tell me about how many free IP addresses are left with you perfectly engineered software stack.
[math]3.4*10^{38}[/math]

I think that's enough for now :^)

>>7898737
>>7898739
>>7898785
It took you three tries and 24 minutes but you finally got that LaTeX right

>>7898785
>implying most everybody isn't using IPv4

>>7898790
LaTeX is too complicated for a CS pleb such as myself

>>7897426

CS major here. As I said before, in my institution we share classroom with physics and math majors, since we take nearly the same courses.

I all ready spot you faggot, indeed you don't study math, nor know about computer science, nor went to a decent institution. Just check the caliber of your arguments:

>1st year: Basically Software Engineering + Calculus.
>2nd year: Basically Software Engineering II but now no calculus.
>Fair enough, it keeps building up...
3rd year: Okay we are serious now. Discrete >maths and theoretical CS
>Wait what? We've been coding java applets for 2 years. Where does this come from?
>4th year: Okay we scientific code monkeys now. Machine learning, AI, image processing

You have a nice imagination faggot.

>Go look for any CS curriculum and tell me this isn't true.

Go and look the curriculum for Udub, Stanford, UCLA, USC, UCSD, UT Austin, Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, MIT,UMass, Cornell, UCI, UIUC,..... You are wrong faggot. Open your eyes, nobody here belives in the shit posting that you flood in this board. You are buthurt about CS. With the recent advances in AI, CS is getting all the attention and money. I don't have anything about math majors.

Now look at this:

>Then the next year we start doing differential equations, linear algebra, algebraic geometry.
>You see that linear progression? Everything fits, everything builds upon something else.

Wow... algebraic geometry for the second year?. You are lying, do you even know what is algebraic geometry faggot?.

For the above reasons, clearly you don't know shit or probably you live and study in a shit hole third world country in south america and think that computer science is facebook or watching videos at youtube. You sound like some engineering faggot, this faggots mumble "huuur differential equations [in one variable of course]" when you show them that engineering math is just compute silly equations.

>>7898806
>Go and look the curriculum for Udub, Stanford, UCLA, USC, UCSD, UT Austin, Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, MIT,UMass, Cornell, UCI, UIUC

>Implying anyone on /sci/ goes to a good school

>>7898778
baby's first group theory

Nisse Vatep

>>7897234
delad krame

meh

>>7898806
Not the guy you're talking to but I had to a lot of multivariable DE's at uni for eng, 2nd order partial stuff with fourier transform and eigenfunction methods

>>7898819
If you're so smart why didn't you come with Diffie-Hellman?
>checkmate faggot

>>7897426

No defending CS but your understanding of it is pretty bad. A CS degree looks more like this:

>1st year
Bullshit java/OO coding class
Bullshit data structures class
Piss easy calculus classes
Piss easy matrix algebra class
[If you're luck] physics I&II for non-science majors

>2nd year
Watered down "computer architecture" class
Pompous software engineering class
Pathetic discrete "math" class
Watered down "probability" class
Crash course on formal languages and automata

>3rd year
Pathetic algorithms course
Watered down computability and complexity theory course
Laughable networks course
Laughable database course
Crash course on various programing languages

>4th year
Laughable computer security course
[If you're lucky] an Operating Systems class
[If you're lucky] a Compilers class
Horseshit AI with trivial machine learning
5-10 student team Capstone with one dude doing all the work
and all the bullshit easy electives you want

>>7898838

Another retard, stop lying faggot.

>>7897234
>How the fuck do you end up with CS grads who can't prove an asymptotic upper-bound or that their algorithm is correct?

Dude, we're lucky if a CS grad understands what a bit-wise XOR is. Lower you expectations tremendously.

>>7898838
Kek, Why are non CS people so jealous of CS students? Why go through all the trouble to make that list?

>>7898829
Stop mumbling:

>"multivariable DE's at uni for eng, 2nd order partial stuff with fourier transform and eigenfunction methods"

You are not impressive, engineering barely deals with hard math, you even take social sciences modules.

>>7898845

Stop replying with ad hominems and have an actual argument

>hilsh fesan

eh. last name's okay, but first name is shit

>>7898849
Insecurity over fear of being automated out of work

>>7898848
The amount of time you guys spend hating on CS grads is truly amazing. You really must not have any jobs.

>>7898849
>shhhh... don't tell them

>>7898849
>jealous of CS students

>>7898865
shit, you're right, time to start memeing.

schmi geedm

>>7898865
>CS majors are the only ones that get computing job

High school kid detected.

>>7898854
Marwi Mamar

>>7898873
>No jobs in your field so getting CS jobs
We welcome you though, we need you guys to write test cods and fancy interfaces.

>>7898865
True enough.... That is the reason that engineering majors at my university are desperate for taking optional CS modules.

>>7898880
>>7898873
Oh, and be sure to follow the style guides and standards guidelines :^)

>>7898880
No, we write system and back-end code in C++. You, CS majors, write the log in pages in PHP and Ruby on Rails.

>>7898890
Where? In your dreams?

>>7898890
>No, we write system and back-end code in C++. You, CS majors, write the log in pages in PHP and Ruby on Rails.

I recall you that bjarne stroup studied CS, you faggot.

>>7898882
>That is the reason that engineering majors at my university are desperate for taking optional CS modules

No, they take them because it's an easy A to boost their GPAs.

>>7898897
>Stroustrup has a master's degree [Cand.Scient. degree] in mathematics and computer science (1975) from Aarhus University

CS fags blown the fuck out again.

>>7898913
> Born in Aarhus Denmark 1950. Cand.Scient. (Mathematics and Computer Science), 1975, University of Aarhus Denmark. Ph.D. (Computer Science) 1979, Cambridge University, England.

>http://www.stroustrup.com/bio.html

>>7897234
Borch Pemad

...Yep.

>>7897481
Oh man, I go to Illinois. There are some smart kids in CS but it's the meme STEM degree honestly. I'm in mechE. Seems like a worthy field of study though. Code monkeys are necessary in today's world, and you can do good research at the grad level.

Who else fell for the CS meme and wasted the best years of their life studying CS?

>>7898926
looks like you expected mathematics, a nonmeme degree

>>7898920
>mechE

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>all these replies to a phishing scam image

Why is /sci/ the dumbest board?

>>7899140

dingo dungus

Morsa Hosan

Damn.

>>7898681

i found this chuckle worthy

also

>hutza lonaub

>>7899422

that's a pretty fresh and actual star wars sounding name tbqhfam

Poimi Mahal

>>7898926
>Expecting to learn complex analysis in comp-sci

This doesn't make any sense.

>>7899422
>>7899429
To me it sounds more like this.

>>7897234
>Zapdi Fllim

>>7897234
Ottba Behel

Swema Cotal

Wut

Batlan Semon

Something is missing

Domdi Bermia

Kinda cool

>>7899712
Err Bemia*

>>7898555
>Outside of a few niches, algorithms really haven't "revolutionize" the world
You are obviously clueless and deluded.

>>7897234
i'm in my last year of my CS undergrad and i don't know how to do that, although we were shown how to prove the asymptotic upper bound for block code entropy .. im a stupid head

>>7898614
>>7897426
>>7898838
Lol, how about you idiots post a curriculum of a good university instead of making up your bullshit lists, and then we actually have something to go from?

>>7899794
I'm the guy who posted the second post you quoted.

Read on and you'll see a guy posted a CS curriculum and then I broke it down into its components. I showed it fell under the trap of focusing on so many things, in the end, you end up focusing on nothing.

Here, I even looked for it for you: >>7897491

And I didn't even choose that exact list so you can't say I am cherry picking or some other bullshit excuse. Anon chose that CS curiculum and I just broke it down into its general components.

My CS subjects in a 3 year course in UK

>>7899850
Lets break it down.

Soft CS, CE, CS, CS, Useless, CE, Mathematics, Applied CS, CS, Applied CS, Software Engineering, Applied CS, Theoretical CS, ???, Applied CS, Theoretical CS, Applied CS, ???, Applied CS.

Here the variation is much less but the problem persists.

Why can't there be a completely theoretical CS degree and a completely applied CS degree?

This is why CS people will never be as good at engineering as a CE or EE, will never be as good a programmer as SE, and will never be as good at math as mathematicians.

Know a little bit of all, become an expert of nothing. Was that worth 3 years of your life?

>>7897234
>Mayjo McCru

>>7899867
>Why can't there be a completely theoretical CS degree and a completely applied CS degree?
There are: https://www.cs.utexas.edu/research/areas/theoretical-computer-science

CS is just more general, allowing one to specialise towards the end. You can notice that it's a lot less variety towards the end of your list. By the way, I don't see a problem with interleaving theory and applications as they're strongly related; I'm interested in both; and I plan to do both for the rest of my life.

>Know a little bit of all, become an expert of nothing.
You don't become an expert of anything in your undergraduate studies; and I will use most of what I learned for my grad school doing machine learning

>Was that worth 3 years of your life?
Yeah, definitely. I have a good understanding of a lot of CS areas, and they'll all help with my AI research. I guess I could've done without the CE part, but I don't resent my university for introducing me to that.

>>7899905
>You don't become an expert of anything in your undergraduate studies

>This is what CS majors actually believe

Speak for yourself. If you go out and ask a recently graduated electrical engineering and ask him if he is an expert of electrical engineering and he will say yes. Test him and his results will be positive. A university graduate of any field, except CS, is by all measures a full professional in their field.

Masters are specializations towards a branch of the field you are already an expert. That is why in big EE project you will see one Master of engineering guy as the leader of the team, but the rest of the team will be just bachelors of engineering holders.

The same applies for PhDs but that specialization usually just serves academia.

If you don't think that a bachelors makes you a professional then your problem lies in either yourself or your degree of choice.

>>7899917
Modern academic training comes out of the church and the old guilds of middle Europe and is still in use today in many fields (chefs and plumbers to name a few).

The Bachelor's degree is loosely similar to an apprentice's role. The young boy (they were almost exclusively male) worked in a shop or with a priest for some time. He learned the trade, the tools, and gained some experience from 'level 0'. When you are done with the apprenticeship, you are 'cleared' to work in other shops and are known to not be a total moron or break tools or burn down shops.

The master's degree is just that. You are considered a master of the craft (like plumbing or prinitng) or the discipline (like The Book of Mark or Crusader History). As such, you typically have a master's level project. Something that is 'new' or shows that you know your stuff. That might be a very decorative silver bowl or a thesis.

The Doctorate means you are 'world class.' Not just a mastery in a field, but a paragon of it. Today, that means that you are the expert in your little niche of underwater basket weaving. There should be no-one better than you. This means you MUST have produced something new or novel way of thinking about the God or something. This has always been the idea, if not the practice.

>>7897234
Hamma Hasan

No sir, I don't like it.

>>7899917
>using professional and expert interchangeably

>>7899925
You are right about the historical roots but you cannot say that in the 21st century a BSc or BE holder is not a professional in their field.

For engineerings this should be trivially true. All over the place you see BE holders that graduate and immediately join huge companies doing top tier work in their field that only a professional could do.

But this also holds for the pure science degree like Physics and Math, where the difference is much more pronounced. Someone who has BSc. in Physics will be able to solve any problem in physics that could possibly face them. And no, in industry a physics grad won't be asked but 11 dimensional multiverses or whatever.

A Physics BSc. is a professional physicist that you will see working as much in industry as in research labs.

The same goes for math grads. You will see a simply Math BSc. holder working along Doctors in publications, and doing top tier work in statistics, calculus, DEs, etc. as it applies for industry.

>>7899946
I just like to spice up my writing by not over using one word many times, which make your texts feel bland and if they were written by a 5 year old.

However, expert means:
>having, involving, or displaying special skill or knowledge derived from training or experience

I am sure this word applies for anyone who has a decent degree. An electrical engineer is an expert of electrical engineering. A Statistican is an expert of statistics, etc.

By the way, if you don't expect your university to turn you into an expert then I don't know what to tell you.

>>7897234
Gilya Marlo.

Bretty Gud.

>>7897234
Marma Baze
k den

>>7899462
>has never heard of advanced algorithm analysis, combinatorics, nor number theory

this is why CS is looked down at with contempt

CS makes bank

Starving physics PhDs cry tears

>>7899995
Most CS degrees do that, but what does that have to do with complex analysis?

>>7899716

Name some revolutionary nontrivial algorithms invented by cs scientists

Hard mode: no simplex

>>7900004
>Most CS degrees do that, but what does that have to do with complex analysis?

Spot the high school kid who did physics but without calculus and now thinks he knows actual physics.

I'm not saying you are a high school kid, but you are literally the undergrad version of those kids.

>>7900008
I believe I have a decent idea. I have a BSc in math and a masters in CS.

>>7897234
Farsa Mikar

Not bad m8, I actually kinda like that.

>>7897385
Riyadh?

>>7900004
>Most CS degrees do that

None of them do

Algorithm Analysis ≠ a few dozen pages on Big O/Θ/Ω and the master theorem in CLRS
Number Theory and Combinatorics ≠ a few dozen pages in Rosen

>>7899964
Well what makes you think that SE grads are better engineers than CS grads? Do you have any data that backs this up? In my experience, CS grads have been exposed to more areas, and are able to come up with creative solutions. You know how they say that someone who has programmed 5 years in programming language A is likely to be worse at programming in that very language than one who has programmed in multiple languages for 3 years, and maybe 2 years in programming language A?

Within my CS degree I used Python, Java, Haskell, Scheme, C, Prolog, MATLAB, Pascal, Erlang, Ada, Occam, and Smalltalk.

Point is, it is not obvious if focusing on one single area is necessarily more productive than touching upon multiple related areas. A lot of breakthroughs have been done by researchers with background in different related subjects because they can come up with novel interpretations. There's a reason why research in learning recommends to take on various hobbies to counter the Einstellung effect

>>7900042
my CS degree lets me choose number theory as an elective from the maths department though?

>>7899850
>No calculus
>No linear algebra
>No probability
>No statistics
>No logic

6.5/10

>>7899867
>Why can't there be a completely theoretical CS degree and a completely applied CS degree?

Why can't there be a completely algebraic math degree and a completely analytical math degree? It's too narrow.

>>7900059
>calculus
>linear algebra
Both in first year, see pic related, the description of the numerical analysis course

>probability
>statistics
Did that in AI, machine learning, and information theory

>logic
Did that in mathematical foundations of computer science, and AI

>>7900044
>Do you have any data that backs this up?
Unfortunately not however all SE degrees focus more on the software engineering/applied side of things so unless you can graduate SE by sleeping through all of it classes then I'd say this is a trivially true statement.

> creative solutions
This is a meme. Any degree that states that they will make you more creative is a meme and pandering to a retard demographic. Not even an art degree will make you a more creative person.

>touching upon multiple related areas

But you are in university. Feel absolutely free to pick up random books and read them but in university you are in to become an expert. I study mathematics and yet one of my most precious non-math posessions is my 'Introduction to Algorithms' book. I read it back in high school and just a few days ago I opened it up once again to check up on its matrix multiplication algorithm as I am currently working on a program that needs to multiply a fuckton of matrices. Last year I also opened it up to check what it had to say about randomized algorithms and sorting because I was doing just that.

But if one of my universities class was not full on heavy math then I would immediately doubt the value of my education because I am there to become an expert of mathematics.

>>7900064
>Why can't there be a completely algebraic math degree and a completely analytical math degree? It's too narrow.

Because those are not entirely distinct. There are, however, completely different Applied Math degrees and Pure Math degrees.

You know what that is? Because those two fields are incredibly different. You will both be doing calculus and other things but in the end, you cannot be an expert of both things in just a 4 year degree, hence it is separated so that you can become an expert of your field.

CS should just do the same. Pure CS and Applied CS. Is it that hard for you to swallow?

>>7900072
>Did that in AI, machine learning, and information theory
>Did that in mathematical foundations of computer science, and AI

A superficial overview perhaps, but not a full course.

>>7900077
This is the content of the Machine Learning course. Hell, have one of the previous exam papers: http://docdro.id/pg4kNtY

>>7900073
>because I am there to become an expert of mathematics.
Then I suppose we have different expectations from an undergraduate degree, cause I never expected to become an "expert" after 3 years of CS

>>7899850
>university of york

Shit university. Even my university which is in a third world country has a better CS program part of the department of mathematics.

>>7900102
post it

Why the fuck do most of the potential computer engineers I meet cant into programming?

>Ponal Bewin
Meh

>>7897234
>Parca Mebur

meh.

>>7897234
Versa Ganew

>>7900042
You can take them as electives.

CS hate threads are an everyday thing here at sci. seriously how jelly are you losers? Not even comp sci major but god damn

>>7900236
>jelly

More like being upset over the bait and switch in CS

>CS majors promised advanced math in their courses
>didn't get advanced math in advanced CS courses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvK1F-Thrzk

>>7900247
>mfw engineers think they take "advanced math"

>>7897234
Faspu Jaand

>>7900253
>mfw cs kiddies think they take "advanced math"
>>muh set notation, logical qualifiers, and principle of induction

>>7897234
Petja Vanov

millions of nations in the galaxy and I end up being russian.

>>7899716
You specifically stated "algorithms", not "algorithms only written by CS scientists". A great many of the most important and influential algorithms were developed by mathematicians before the was even such a thing as a "Computer Science" department at the best universities. An algorithm is an algorithm. But, to play along with your game, how about the PageRank algorithm. I'm fairly certain Page and Brin were CS students at Stanford when they invented it. And, if you don't think it changed the world, you are too young to remember search engines before Google.

Rosju Kihen

pretty cool i guess

>>7897234

blase naroc

>>7898873
>>CS majors are the only ones that get computing job

We already know you can't get a job in your own field, cuck.

>>7898890
>No, we write system and back-end code in C++. You, CS majors, write the log in pages in PHP and Ruby on Rails.

Math majors have to buckle down and study hard core after finding out they wasted four years of their life on an unemployable degree.

They really get incentivised to learn how to code monkey after realizing their parents are fed up with them using their basement.

>>7898913
>Stroustrup has a master's degree [Cand.Scient. degree] in mathematics and computer science (1975) from Aarhus University
>CS fags blown the fuck out again.

Like virtually every math major, he sourly found he had to go back and get an actual degree that could land him a job.

>>7899867
>Know a little bit of all, become an expert of nothing. Was that worth 3 years of your life?


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects and math majors.

-Robert A. Heinlein

>>7897234
>mother's maiden name
>city you were born

nice social engineering to get the security question response of some retards.

>>7899964
>Someone who has BSc. in Physics will be able to solve any problem in physics that could possibly face them.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha. No.

Physics just gives an approximation that gets people killed.

Physics just gives a better place for trial and error to START. There is a reason for protypes, test pilots, POCs, etc,.

Approximations are only good enough on paper.

Beral Surac
Sounds ok.

Most people who go into engineering or math, and wind up getting jobs in other fields due to mediocrity or employment rates forget the majority of what they learned in college.

So, when a mathfag says that math majors can work in any field, what he really means is yet another math major will basically forgot 90% of what he learned in his BS.

Well, at least you can can Pat yourself on the back knowing you finished the degree.

Some people already know the uselessness of the degree and would rather take a program that helps them grow more as a person or provides a lasting skill set.

>>7901007
>college should be job training

0/100

Aguar Disan

>>7897234

ttini balau

Based.

>>7900917
>using security questions
kek

And then people wonder how their accounts get 'hacked'

>>7898898
CpE third year here, it's actually both, CS courses with high grades attract recruiters, at least in my country.

In the same time, CS exams are extremely easier to ace and get high grades compared to math/physics/eng courses, but homework is consistently more demanding time wise.