/sci/ - Science & Math

>>7619688
Is there anyone in the world who actually believed this shit? Sounded like a meme since day 1 tbh

>it's spaycex duude

>>7620086
all of /r/spaceX and most of NSF did

Regardless of whether they end up following that specific business plan, it seems likely that they're going to build comsats for Mars and will at the least get into the business of building satellite buses.

They have opened a Seattle-area office for new work, not directly relating to the launch vehicles or capsules.

>>7620475
>comsats for Mars

Yeah cause there's tons of money in that!

>>7620484
>Shuttling guys and stuff up to some supposed "space station" in LEO is not a realistic way to make money.
NASA and other space agencies spend billions of dollars on Mars missions, and SpaceX is trying to sell a version of their Dragon capsule as a Mars lander, not to mention the Falcon Heavy as a very capable launch vehicle for Mars missions. They could sell access to a set of Mars observation and communication satellites, and they'd increase demand for their Mars launch services. Furthermore, Mars is a challenging target, even Mars orbit. It would raise SpaceX's reputation as the most important and capable space service provider.

>>7620515
Total fucking strawman, holy shit

All I said was that they're not gonna make a lot of money on fucking Mars comm sats

They can't even launch one rocket a month any time soon lmao

>>7620515
>It would raise SpaceX's reputation as the most important and capable space service provider.

Until they are reliable, and can deliver on launches in a year, that title belongs to ULA.

>>7620520
>All I said was that they're not gonna make a lot of money on fucking Mars comm sats
...and I explained how they could. What part of that do you still not understand?

>>7620525
lol, ULA. No, they don't now and have never held the position as the best and most capable provider. They have survived only due to the US military's requirement for domestic launch capability. They haven't been able to compete on the open market even with heavy government subsidies.

SpaceX is challenging Arianespace, not ULA, for that.

>>7620542
That's not a money maker, that's all requiring NASA to fund those projects. There isn't enough money there to send their own projects to Mars independent of NASA.

>lol, ULA. No, they don't now and have never held the position as the best and most capable provider.

Most reliable worldwide, can pump out rockets reliably and fast, and they have the largest capacity rocket on the planet. That's nothing to laugh at. SpaceX cannot say any of those things. The FH keeps being delayed. It's totally possible it won't launch until 2017.

Just because you're cheap doesn't mean much if you can't produce rockets to keep up with demand. It also doesn't mean much if you're not reliable. SpaceX had a first stage engine fail on the test stand recently. RTF is now mid to late December.

>>7620515
>not to mention the Falcon Heavy as a very capable launch vehicle for Mars missions

It's pretty shitty tbh, they need a cyrogenic stage. At this point they aren't planning this at all. Zero development. the FH is primarily meant to fulfill the NRO/DOD requirements.

>>7620542
>lol, ULA. No, they don't now and have never held the position as the best and most capable provider.

>>7620525
>that fucking graph
Manipulative data presentation 101

>>7620561
The pie slices are equal in size:p

>>7620553
>It's pretty shitty tbh, they need a cyrogenic stage.
Substantially more payload to anywhere than anything short of the SLS. They don't "need" a hydrogen upper stage.

>At this point they aren't planning this at all. Zero development.
Where do you get this bullshit? You don't need anything special to launch to a Mars transfer orbit that you don't already have from being able to launch to a GTO, you just need to provide a bit more delta-V, so you can't take as much payload.

>the FH is primarily meant to fulfill the NRO/DOD requirements.
The FH is primarily meant for the geostationary comsat market. F9 was undersized for that, and sticking three F9 boosters together was the simplest way to increase the payload. Crossfeed is a relatively minor additional effort which offered potential for improved reusability (separating the side boosters at lower speeds, making recovery easier) and additional business opportunities (increased payloads).

>>7620643
>They don't "need" a hydrogen upper stage.

Yes they do, if they want to send anything beyond earth orbit and actually take advantage of the capabilities of the rocket. A kerolox upper stage is lame.

> You don't need anything special to launch to a Mars transfer orbit that you don't already have from being able to launch to a GTO

By using a superior upper stage that is higher energy, they'd double their payload to Mars. They're just not working on it for the Falcon Heavy at this point. They probably could develop a single engine raptor vacuum engine for it, but they aren't at this time.

>Crossfeed is a relatively minor additional effort

No it's not. They're not even 100% going to to use it. It will be fucking epic if they do decide to move forward with it and they make it work.

>and sticking three F9 boosters together was the simplest way to increase the payload.

Funny enough Elon says he wish they had just made a larger single core rocket now, as the center core of the FH is an entirely separate core from the normal Falcon 9.

>>7620653
>>They don't "need" a hydrogen upper stage.
>Yes they do, if they want to send anything beyond earth orbit
They've already sent a payload beyond earth orbit. You're an idiot.

>A kerolox upper stage is lame.
Common components save time and money. Fancy upper stages often cost more, and take longer to develop, than the rest of the rocket put together.

A fancy upper stage optimizes the use of the lower stage, but there's little support for the idea that it optimizes overall cost or enables a maximum performance that is otherwise unachievable. Making a more efficient upper stage and simply building a larger rocket achieve the same performance goal, and building a larger rocket can end up being cheaper.

>Funny enough Elon says he wish they had just made a larger single core rocket now, as the center core of the FH is an entirely separate core from the normal Falcon 9.
[citation needed]

I doubt this very much. They're doing a larger single core rocket for the Raptor-powered vehicle. That's probably what's mixed up in that fucked up little brain of yours.

As for it being an "entirely separate core", that's completely idiotic.

>>7620561
>>7620525
These fucking ULA clowns...
>lol Ariane 5 can't put things in GEO at all, since the kick motor is technically separate from the launch vehicle, we're going to score it a 0 even though it's more capable than Atlas V in practice
>lol Falcon Heavy is a total mystery, even though its specced to outperform everything we have and anything we have reasonable confidence of actually building, we're just going to ~~suggest~~ that maybe it's not very good
>lolol Falcon Heavy, launching in 2016 with a proven engine is a big mystery, but we've got definite figures on a vehicle we hope to maybe launch by 2019, and hope to maybe upgrade in 2023, but actually still haven't definitely decided whether it's going to run on LNG or RP-1 or what engine it's using

It's so transparent. They don't prepare this stuff for customers, they don't prepare it for the public, it's only for very high-level, very busy policymakers who just need an excuse to say that they believed something that the lobbyists told them, rather than admit they just shoveled pork for kickbacks.

>>7619688
It's sad because I really wanted some non-shitty global satellite internet. There's potential in this idea.

In 2013, Internet advertising revenues in the United States totaled $42.8 billion, a 17% increase over the $36.57 billion in revenues in 2012
>(http://www.iab.net/media/file/IAB_Internet_Advertising_Revenue_Report_FY_2013.pdf))

SpaceX yearly expense $1.2b-$1.6B

>no viable business model

Retarded.
I hate and block online ads as much as the next guy; but having the ability to show some ads to anyone using an internet network that you control will 100% get you back the investment and more.

As has been the case with the space industry since forever; it's not the lack of technical capabilities, it's the lack of will to make a large initial investment.
And that's a shame.

>>7620553
What would it take to fit Centaur or ACES to a FH? I imagine if FH is already being built to the same standards that Atlas is, it couldn't be that much of a stretch.