/sci/ - Science & Math

Being alpha isn't being violent. Alpha males are smart, confident, considerate and they don't take shit from anyone. Agressive people just cause discomfort among others and slowly drive them away.

I've read research that found women prefer more intelligent men, but that looks were a bigger factor.
If you look at things that people use to attract mates like humor, music, dance, etc. all these things are ways of demonstrating a healthy nervous system.

>>7614087
Well I'm not sure what your definition of alpha is, I define it as the leader of whatever group/tribe there is.

The "alpha leaders" of many animal herds and monkeys is the strongest male who controls the others by fear, and all the thousands of years of evolution with that instinct ought to be a fundamental part of our brain.

Even in our human part of evolution, there was constant tribal warfare, so it would make sense if the alpha male that women wanted was an explosive person capable of bursts of rage and violence, as this incites fear in others, and causes their submission, if not death, both intra-tribe and inter-tribe.

If this is not a direct contradiction to intelligence (which I would say is partly self-control) then it is certainly a much more powerful drive for reproduction than intellecet.

>>7614095
Well I think it's safe to say you wouldn't be the alpha in any situation where you aren't the smartest and most confident person

>>7614097
In humans, leadership is entrusted. The size of your whatever isn't of absolute importance.

>>7614097
>most confident
Yes, you have to be to be an alpha / a leader.
>smart
Maybe people might ask you for advice because they know you are smart, but if you don't have the confidence to say it, and if in general they don't respect you, your intelligence won't take you far, and won't make you a leader.

>>7614102
How do you know leadership is entrusted rather than enforced? Any research? I would be interested to read it.

>>7614079
>Are women instinctively attracted to intelligence? A
Yes, but visual cues for intelligence are gregariousness/"charm", confidence/assertiveness etc.

Not sitting in a lab or moving greek symbols around proficiently unless the female happens to understand the significance (ie only girls in STEM are attractive to boys who are good STEM and vice versa (but both prefer rich and sexy people)).

>>7614095
>>7614095
>Having adrenal glands means you can't be intelligent.
No. In addition having higher natural free testosterone base levels is correlated with increased mental acuity and IQ.

I really don't understand where you get this ridiculous notion quiet repressive "betas/omegas" are intelligent from, you watch far too much American entertainment. Even today they are not confident and assertive in the first place precisely because they are not intelligent.

>>7614115
>Even today they are not confident and assertive in the first place precisely because they are not intelligent.
Take a look at PhD students ... Being intelligent and having confidence that you're intelligent are different things, the latter is what leads to charm and what mediocre party-guys have.

Also, what is intelligence - being able to reason with a logical thought process, usually objectively, right? It is opposite to being an emotionally influenced person. And if you are a violent person with a huge rush of fury, it completely overtakes you, and you cannot be logical or objective when you are overwashed with it.

But in fact, if you are a logical person and you can think of consequences, you will be less violent because you know that hitting someone will cause them pain (and yourself too) whereas a violent dumb person goes for it without asking questions. That is why I said intelligent people are less self-assured and assertive towards others and why they are omegas.

>>7614120
>Take a look at PhD students ...
Most of them aren't intelligent, but go on. (For intelligent ones see Richard Feynman et. al.)
>Being intelligent and having confidence that you're intelligent are different things,
It is absolutely not. If a person has no confidence in your abilities it's probably because they don't really have them. This is especially true for intelligence having no emotional intelligence by tautology means you are not intelligent.
> the latter is what leads to charm and what mediocre party-guys have.
More holy wood stereotypes. If you've ever been to parties with academics, industry leaders and other high class members of society you'd know this is not true.
>b- but normalfag parties
Intelligent people don't hang out at those.
>Also, what is intelligence - being able to reason with a logical thought process, usually objectively, right?
Fluid intelligence as per the google definition is "the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills." The faster and more efficient you can do this the more intelligent you are. IQ one possible measurement of this if flawed.
Crystallized intelligence is knowledge, most people genetically gifted with fluid intelligence will obviously have more of this on average.
> It is opposite to being an emotionally influenced person.
Stop watching Star Trek. Emotion and rationality are not contradictory concepts AT ALL. They are different, not contradictory. Emotion can be objective, empathy is an example of objective emotional thinking.
[cont.]

Define intelligence first

>>7614136 [cont.]
>>7614120
>And if you are a violent person with a huge rush of fury, it completely overtakes you, and you cannot be logical or objective when you are overwashed with it.
To the contrary. In the first place you're assuming that violence will give you an unfavourable outcome, which is a very naive assumption.

The more intelligent individual will be able to asses viable outcomes of situations faster and act quicker and more assertively. Unintelligent individuals are slower and tend to avoid conflict. They will back down when challenged because from experience they cannot win.

This is why military officers are always chosen from the more intelligent individuals. In fact during WWII for example German scientists and engineers were often pulled from research duty and used directly as field officers whenever there was a shortage.

It's always been accepted that intelligent people make better leaders and soldiers.

>But in fact, if you are a logical person and you can think of consequences, you will be less violent because you know that hitting someone will cause them pain (and yourself too) whereas a violent dumb person goes for it without asking questions.
Hitting someone can also have the nett result of getting you more loot and women with little effort, as history has shown. Violence often has good consequences, being violent more often might be more beneficial. So you can't argue that violence in itself is a trait for either. The only evidence we have that is related is that high testosterone males are more intelligent.

>That is why I said intelligent people are less self-assured and assertive towards others and why they are omegas.
It seems like you're trying to make this personal, but none of your arguments follow from a premise which in itself is flawed.

>>7614079
>all women are the same

>>7614079

My guess is that abnormally high 'intelligence' wouldn't be attractive, because I've watched and read a few things and it seems that conditions like schizophrenia have arisen out of this move towards increasingly complex intelligence. Hence why schizophrenia hasn't died out, why schizophrenics tend to have higher IQ, and why humans are the only beings we know of that have schizophrenia.

>>7614140


Intelligence let's you do more gooder.

>>7614079

Also: Is there a relation between intelligence and interest in female mating preferences?

>>7614079
>Are women instinctively attracted to intelligence?
not what normal people call intelligence. but they are attracted to socially intelligent, successful people, which requires intelligence.

>>7614079
What is inteligence?

The ability to use your hands with more precisition? The ability to learn easily new movements? You could be a perfect artisan and don't understand a fuck of what you're doing.

Or rather the capacity to be analitical? To remember things more easily and let more data enter your brain while still understanding what you percieve? You could be the best scientist in the primitive world and at the same time too clumsy or a too slow thinking about what you should do or do not in a certain moment of tension.

The overall brain capacity? The mix of all cognitive abilities? How are you suposed to make that desirable? Technology is good but in the primitive era you still needed a strong arm to use a spear, you still need to be fast and resist long periods of starvation since you only die once but will face harsh conditions constantly.

No, developing inteligence was a good idea but only now, in the modern times, makes sense for it to be something desirable, and taking into account our dependence on man-made technology lets take that with a grain of salt.

>>7614079
>Is there a biological instinct that makes women aroused by intelligent men?

No. By far, far far far far far, women are aroused by looks. If they see a dude that has them genes she wants, there is really no amount of stupidity that could deter her. Once there's physical attraction, the halo effect takes over and everything else is automatically great.

Women like the idea of being attracted to intelligent guys way more than they actually like intelligent guys. Women like "intelligent" guys for the same reason that pic related is a "nerd", because it's popular to say so.

For the most part, women are completely at the mercy of very strong evolutionary tendencies which strong-arm them in to dropping their panties for the good genes based on looks/pheremones alone, and rationalizing things like "intelligence" after the decision has already been made.

>>7614079 (OP)
>Is there a biological instinct that makes women aroused by intelligent men?

No. By far, far far far far far, women are aroused by looks. If they see a dude that has them genes she wants, there is really no amount of stupidity that could deter her. Once there's physical attraction, the halo effect takes over and everything else is automatically great.

Women like the idea of being attracted to intelligent guys way more than they actually like intelligent guys. Women like "intelligent" guys for the same reason that pic related is a "nerd", because it's popular to say so.

For the most part, women are completely at the mercy of very strong evolutionary tendencies which strong-arm them in to dropping their panties for the good genes based on looks/pheremones alone, and rationalizing things like "intelligence" after the decision has already been made.

The truth is that instinctual tendencies in women which determine who they are attracted to are so strong that most women are completely oblivious to what they are actually attracted to, they're just along for the ride.

Yes

>>7614079
>Is there a biological instinct that makes women aroused by intelligent men? (Or vice versa?)
Probably. For marriage, I mean, for casual sex, probably not.

What statistics show us is that the most important factor when choosing a marriage, which trumps race or socio-economic background, is educational level.

>>7614365
>educational level

Preferred marriage partners correlate with money, plain and simple. The correlation with education is coincidental.

>>7614373
>Preferred marriage partners correlate with money, plain and simple. The correlation with education is coincidental.
That's actually wrong. Marriages between a rich person and a poor person of similar educational level is more likely than marriage between two rich people or two poor people of different educational attainment.

>>7614167
Schizophrenia is often associated with homozygous alleles for a specific dopamine related gene.

But heterozygous alleles lead to a phenotype that is useful beyond controls and heterozygotes

>>7614120
>And if you are a violent person with a huge rush of fury, it completely overtakes you, and you cannot be logical or objective when you are overwashed with it.
You haven't been much in industry, have you? Many leaders fit this to a tee and are successful as measured by money and women.

Just look at Hewlett Packard. Once a great company, rammed repeatedly into the toilet by progressively bad leaders with alpha male characteristics including mistresses on the side. They got rich. The company is on its last legs.

>>7614079
women are attracted to power. where you get your power is irrelevant. doesn't matter if you get it from looks, or smarts, or just inherited a bunch of money.

its about being better than the other guys around you.

>>7614373
>>7614376
this. there is actually a shortage of men at the upper class level of society because its mostly women getting degrees.

people really don't like to date across educational boundaries.

>>7615358
I agree, alpha characteristics are regressive and primitive. Some guys retcon what alpha means, so that the definition becomes 'confident, good social skills, capable, strong, a nice guy' and while those traits are positive (I'd like that guy myself, as a buddy) they aren't alpha, and they aren't what women are primarily attracted to. Women are attracted to thuggish bullying behaviour. Really negative stuff. The good ones repress it but there's only so much they can do. Evolution's a bitch.

>>7615380
Why are women such pretentious elitists?

>I'm not dating this stupid welder earning 80kpa. I mean, I have a DEGREE in psychology, clearly I'm higher class than him even if I serve coffee for a living.

Not that I'm complaining about having a bigger dating pool.

>>7615391
i think its totally reasonable.

i grew up poor and all the chicks i dated were uneducated and kinda low brow. i finished college and tried dating the same kind of girl, and realized i couldn't relate anymore.

secondary education really does change the way people think and behave.

>>7615391
There was an article I read a while back, written on the back of some book pushing the idea of how hard it is for women to get a date these days.

The idea boiled down to the fact that since higher education is female dominated and is getting moreso, and women generally refuse to date men with lower education than them, that this situation was unfair to women and gave men all the power.

It of course ignored the gender disparity in education, and women's classism in discriminating against non-college educated men. That's just how our culture is these days, women find a reason to complain about everything under the sun, including their own their own superiority.

>>7614136
>Emotion and rationality are not contradictory concepts AT ALL.
Are you really this retarded or are you just pretending?

>>7615403
I agree with you to an extent. In fact I'll be honest I can't stand non-STEM girls anymore. Throughout undergrad I dated hot girls from my uni gym, now they just seem so retarded I can't get through the first coffee with them.

On the other hand, trying to find a STEM girl is virtually impossible. There are so few single STEM girls who aren't physically repulsive. I'll end up settling for a biologist probably.

>>7615410
>that this situation was unfair to women and gave men all the power.
I don't even...it's just the usual prince charming syndrome I suppose. Everyone thinks they deserve better and since Chad ended up with Stacy, Cindy needs someone to blame that isn't herself.

>That's just how our culture is these days, women find a reason to complain about everything under the sun, including their own their own superiority.
Yeah, but this how all identity politics work to be honest, it's all about me me me and people like me. The only thing you can do with that kind of irrationality is to ignore it.

>>7614079
I think people are attracted to intelligence but only to an extent.

People with intelligence that can be applied practically in day to day life and help you gain an edge over others is attractive, abstract intelligence about high level math/science not so much.

If a guy shows he's smart enough to make more money than others, or smart enough to solve practical problems like fixing broken shit around the house, or smart about social interactions, they like that.

Being smart enough to deeply understand things relativity and quantum mechanics not so much. They don't see how its supposed to benefit their daily life.

>>7615448
>I'll end up settling for a biologist probably.

Probably a good call, bio is where the women are. Or health sciences more generally.

>Yeah, but this how all identity politics work to be honest, it's all about me me me and people like me.

Sure. Identity politics is bullshit. Individualism uber alles. Still, the lack of insight that self-identifying internet feminists have is shocking. It gets to me.

Intelligence is the most desired trait in a mate. They just won't throw all of their other standards out the window because of it.

Most people have a list of deal-breakers, where if you fall below spec in some way, there is just no way to make up for it with other good traits. If you're very intelligent, but can't seem to get together with anyone, it's not because intelligence isn't attractive, but because you've got something else wrong with you.

And as for the people saying cynical things about women wanting money, it's not so much that women are all whores who will go with any rich guy, but that really rich guys are simply rarer than good-looking whores, so they can always find one, even though there aren't many, as a percentage of the population.

There are a LOT of women out there supporting sexy losers they found couch-surfing.

we /r9k/ now

>>7615529
>Intelligence is the most desired trait in a mate.

Do you have a single shred of evidence for that assertion?

>>7614079
Intelligence and aggressiveness are not mutually exclusive.

You can be smart and aggressive or dumb and timid.

Yes /thread

>>7615578
How are you meant to reason logically if you are raging?

>>7616410
being aggressive does not imply complete absence of rational thought
aggressive can be used to describe everything, from the way someone pursues a woman to the guy who punches another guy because he kinda sorta bumped into him at the bar

not every argument/discussion/confrontation can be won by simply reasoning your way out of it

>>7614079
every part of your idea is wrong

but lets start with there being no definition for intelligence

>>7614095
Fighting with rage is the best way to get fucking killed, specially in a physically unimposing race as humans.
Berzerker meme is just a meme, ask any professional fighter.

Impulsive behavior also decreases odds of survival.

>>7614115
That depends, a lot of smart people I've known developed poorly into socially awkward messes due to emotional problems.

>>7614143
Fighting smart and being assertive isn't the same as Op's "Alpha raging downie".

>>7614079
Women can tell real intelligence (number on your bank account) from machine intelligence (IQ). They don't want biobots.

>>7616521
There's no such thing as a raging downie that is considered "alpha" by anyone.

>>7614087
>alpha males are considerate
spotted the woman

>>7614143
>Unintelligent individuals are slower and tend to avoid conflict.
Wrong. Aggressiveness is inversely correlated with IQ.

>It's always been accepted that intelligent people make better leaders and soldiers.
Not really. When it comes to leadership, fluid intelligence doesn't matter nearly as much as interpersonal skills.

I doubt women are attracted to intelligent partners.

I mean, some of them might. But I feel very confident when I say that looks are the biggest factor, next to wealth.

Good looking women will get with ugly niggas if they have money, so there goes the looks factor.

However, I will say that a lot of time women will go with the good looking fella even if he's not that intelligent.

Meh, it depends on the enviornment, but I personally don't think women are instinctively attracted to intelligence.

If that was true all the scientist would be ganging 10/10's consistently... and well let's be realistic about this...

>>7617731
> Good looking women ... get with ugly .. if they have money
> women will go ... good looking fella even if ... not ... intelligent
> it depends on the enviornment

Wow anon, it's almost like women are individuals just as much as men are individuals, just about different shit.

>>7616512
>rage= i punch with my eyes closed
the little bitches like you will never understand true rage

>>7617716
>Wrong. Aggressiveness is inversely correlated with IQ.

you have to STRONGLY back it up m8.
because if we're not talking about psych hippie bullshit, usually the most aggressive specie is also the most intelligent

more aggressive > more things killed > more food > better evolution

fuck off

Why does this matter? Dissecting this topic is like you being given an apple and you're trying to find the label on it.

Instead of trying to see whether girls have a biological imperative to like you're oh-so-cute intellect. Go and work on it, find a girl who does, eat the damn apple, sitting there trying to understand it will just make it rot.

>>7618763
>you have to STRONGLY back it up m8
>doesn't back up own claim

Here you go, idiot.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02232723

>>7614136
>For intelligent ones see Richard Feynman

stopped reading right there

ITT: virgins galore

>>7614136
Only a sith deals in absolutes

>>7614079
Life isn't an RPG, dude. You don't trade STR for INT. The best men are strong and smart.

Alphas are ussually also the most intelligent in their community.

The "betas are smart" thing is just something betas like to tell themselves to feel better

>>7614120
>But in fact, if you are a logical person and you can think of consequences, you will be less violent because you know that hitting someone will cause them pain (and yourself too) whereas a violent dumb person goes for it without asking questions. That is why I said intelligent people are less self-assured and assertive towards others and why they are omegas.


Wow, that's by far the dumbest thing I've read this week.

>>7616410
>How are you meant to reason logically if you are raging?


Raging is completely different from being aggressive...

People of like terms are attracted to each other, but powerful people draw all types. Being powerful isn't just about how fit you are, or how intelligent you are. It's a combination of all high aspects that truly makes a man powerful. To have the wisdom to see things how they truly are, to have intelligence to know many things, to have vitality because you respect your body. These are the aspects that attract the things a man wants to his life.

>>7619423
>Alphas are ussually also the most intelligent in their community.
This is false.

>The "betas are smart" thing is just something betas like to tell themselves to feel better
This is true.

>>7614079
No. Women are attracted to status. In some cases, intelligence can help one achieve high status, but it doesn't guarantee status.

>>7619457
>This is false.


It's not, no. There is more to being a leader than physical strenght.

>>7619491
>It's not, no. There is more to being a leader than physical strenght.

I'm not disputing that. However, simply being intelligent does not guarantee the social skills, charisma, or confidence required to be a leader. Simply put, you have to be "smart enough", but by no means do you have to be the smartest.

>>7619526

Yeah, but an alpha very likely has way above average intelligence.

OP made it sound like the alpha would be some dumb brute while all the omegas were smart as fuck

>>7618786
but mr. lahey!

>>7619563
>an alpha very likely has way above average intelligence.
A real alpha - like a business leader or a prominent politician - probably. Chad Thundercock - the star quarterback who fucked the entire cheerleading squad - not so much.

Regardless of what OP said, the statement
>Alphas are ussually also the most intelligent in their community.
is clearly wrong.

>>7614095
>I'm not sure what your definition of alpha is
>becuz I din't read the second sentence of yer post

>>7619563
In my last interview for an aerospace engineering firm, one of the interviewers literally asked me if I was alpha. Dunno if he was being serious or just trying to weed out some normies, but I managed to say 'no' creatively, and still got the job.

>>7614079
>Got good grades, went to university
>No gf
>Guy I know dropped out of school, sells coke, went to prison
>3 kids to 3 different girls
Whenever I talk to women nowadays I make a point to pretend that I'm completely uneducated. My popularity has gone up. "study hard and you'll get a nice wife in your 30s" is what single mums tell their beta male offspring

Intelligence is not an evolutionary trait. If it was then we would have seen it in other animals. Intelligence as we know it is a mutation of your genes. How did it happen and why, is not understood. Often those who social and look good reproduce. Go look at birds, especially the pretty ones. They always reproduce. There is empirical evidence behind it. For most of human history the man who was capable of fighting and being a protector became a seed planter.

>>7619664
This. I tell them I am a janitor, even though I work as an engineer. Women don't want an educated man in their 20s. If they do, those women are taken or hiding just like neets. Women feel like if you're above them in a social class then you are too good for them. This is women self-sabotaging because they believe they need the bad boy who needs to be saved.

>>7614079
>Are women instinctively attracted to intelligence?

And precisely what external signs would instinct be able to use to determine who is intelligent and who is not?

>>7619672
No they just want a chad to pump and dump them.

>evo psych to the rescue again!

>>7619665
>Intelligence is not an evolutionary trait
What? You seem pretty confused. Which traits are selected for varies based on the environment.
Also, we do see intelligence in other species.

>>7620884
Women can approximately guage intelligence, with some accuracy, by analyzing facial characteristics.

>>7620884
Doesn't have to be instinct, people just pick up shit from their environment. Noticing people with a certain look do well in school, trends in what people tell you they do for work, etc.

Pretty sure you could train a neural net to guess IQ based on a face if you fed it a database of a few thousand people's pictures and their score with little difficulty.

>>7620907
Should add that people's brains are basically primed to learn things about other people very easily, given that other people represent a consistent part of our environment going back as long as we've existed, and also possibly the most useful, dangerous, and complex object therein.

>>7614079

no, they're attracted to money

which, presumably, if you're more intelligent, you will earn more of

>>7615410
I know exactly which article you're talking about. I'll post the link to it eventually. It's funny how feminism backfired on women when it comes to dating.