/sci/ - Science & Math

Cheating on an exam is fucking some basic shit, why would you base your grade entirely on that?
US grades are inflated but the expectations are also higher for any kind of scholarship or academic recognition.

>>7588749
Their grade inflation is fucking atrocious. Getting under 90% is actually shit at a american uni. I don't understand the point of obtaining "degrees" that are so easy. Why does any employer ever take their graduates seriously. I mean their grad-schools are already filled with international students because their undergrad pool is so shit, but I don't understand how the entire system has not collapsed yet.

>>7588771
>Cheating on an exam is fucking some basic shit, why would you base your grade entirely on that?
At GOOD undergrad programmes exams are usually open book with full internet access. Because the problems are actually difficult and no one can help you. ie. there is no "cheating". I know something like this would be hard to understand for Americans.

>>7588776

don't forget also a society with low welfare and lots of imported and aspirational asian americans

>>7588749
> A typical course mark is: 20 % from final exam, 30 % from various mid term tests, 10 % for attendance (srs), 10 % for speaking in class (srs), 20 % for homework, and 10 % for some token thing like contributing to the online message boards of the course (srs).
FUCKING REALLY? The only thing that counts in my Universit is the final exam. Nothing else. You don't even have to attend class or do any homework, you just need to pass (generally) two mid term exams.

On the other hand, is there any way I can convert my average grade to the equivalent american GPA?

>>7588782
>is there any way I can convert my average grade to the equivalent american GPA?

Something like http://www.foreigncredits.com/Resources/GPA-Calculator/, though you can't exactly give that to an employer, but most intelligent employer won't look at your grades anyway if you're from an international uni. By virtue of having a degree with a 50% pass rate most converters give you a minimum of 3.0 anyway.

>>7588782

that's what my OP said (and what I was surprised at): a GPA is an actual percentage (i.e. a grade of 60 % in GPA is just 0.60 * 4).

I thought all those high GPAs meant there was a strange system where everything up to 3.0 was just gained for spelling your name correctly and turning up to the exam, but seemingly not

American undergrad is a fucking joke tbh fam

The funniest thing is when Americans try to brag about their grades on the internet.

Pic related. This is how stupid all those 3.5+'s actually are. Pathetic.

>>7588789
When it says 'credits or hours', do they mean hours per week?

>>7588797
Contact hours per week I believe.

>>7588789
>>7588800
Well, I have a 4.0 GPA according to that.

>>7588806
Of course you do, it's hard not to have a 4.0 equivalent.

I don't think you quite appreciate what a joke American undergrad programmes are yet.

>>7588749
>American undergrad inferior to literally anything else

Hahahahahahaha. Keep telling yourselves that while you rot at a cut-rate university with shit tier career opportunities. There's a reason why American universities occupy the vast majority of top programs in the world, and why so many Europeans, Asians, and Indians flock to them. GPA is a dynamic metric that allows your academic success to be judged on a variety of scales, and not cumulative exams alone. I've studied/taught at several universities around the world. Nothing holds a candle to American higher education. Not to mention the social scene...

if I got a 157 verbal and 154 quant on the GRE is that god enough to get into a grad school?

>>7588749
>final exams that assess everything and count for 100 % of their grade for the course

How is that a good idea lol

>>7588796
wtf is this real?

>>7588814
>There's a reason why American universities occupy the vast majority of top programs in the world, and why so many Europeans, Asians, and Indians flock to them.
And the reason is that the USA spend a lot of money in scientific research, so it's very convenient to do a PhD there. However, we are talking about undergrad here.

>>7588821
Very.

Anecdotally one of our mediocre students sitting at a 60% GPA consistently got over 90% when he transferred to a top US uni (on a sports bursary).

>>7588821
Of course it's not fucking real. A 50% at any university would correlate to a sub 1.0 -- if that. A 4.0 GPA means you literally achieved a perfect score in every single class you ever took as an undergrad. A 3.0 is a B, 2.0 is a C. Most schools work that way.

>>7588789
>50% pass rate most converters give you a minimum of 3.0 anyway.

kekd so hard.

>>7588827
It IS real. There's a reason you need a magic 3.0 to get a job in the US, because it's the equivalent to getting a degree anywhere else where it's actually difficult to pass exams.

I don't think you understand the point of the conversion, it's to convert standards, not exact percentages.

>A 3.0 is a B, 2.0 is a C. Most schools work that way.
Correction. Most GRADE INFLATED schools that you are familiar with work that way.

I you still don't believe me look at your top universities grad-school admission criteria. The minimum for US students will be 3.2+ for most programmes while it's 60-70% for most international students.

>>7588821

Hahahaha no it's not real. Those grades equate to a 1.4 GPA at my school.

>>7588749
Literally every graduate-level course I've taken as an undergrad has been introduced with something along the lines of "this class has a b-average, you'd have to try pretty hard to get anything less than a C." I suppose at that point nobody cares about your GPA, anyway, though; they care about what you get published. As for myself as an undergrad, it allows me to boost my GPA while adding "graduate-level studies" to my resume.

>>7588836
Are you consciously ignoring the fact that Universities receive more funding for a higher percentage of enrolled international students?

They make it EASIER for international students to get in. Same reason why blacks have such an easy time getting into college in the US.

I actually love having this conversation in person with people from other countries.

Literally every time a friend from a foreign countries has said that American schools are easy, I've just pointed out that I've never seen them get higher than a B, and usually they get Cs.

>>7588827
>>7588848
>American education

You fucking retards, it's comparing your STANDARDS to international (in this case UK university's) standards. It is NOT the conversion from percentages to GPAs/symbols that your schools apply.

Let me put it to you in another way.

What it is saying is that If you earn a 75% at a UK university. That is considered a 100% most American schools. If you apply to grad-school with a 75% from UK, your application will be considered on the same level as an American with a 4.0 GPA (or 100% for undergrad).

Similarly a 50% from UK == a 75% from the US etc. etc.

Jesus fucking christ, I don't understand how any university student can be this stupid.

>>7588859
and what exactly is the justification behind that conversion? Is there a formula used to convert UK grades to US grades, or are you completely pulling shit out of your ass?

>>7588855
What kind of grad-schools are you applying to where you aren't funded?

I don't think you understand how grad-schools work, you don't pay anything, the university pays you. If you aren't getting paid because you didn't get funding you should consider that a light rejection.

Seriously even at undergrad, if you didn't get a scholarship (which means you're probably not smart enough to get into grad-school anyway), you are just paying tuition to feed grad-schools (ie you're paying my TA salary which supplements my grant stiped). Congrats you are the black student you're trying to look down on.

>Paying for university.
Idiot.

>>7588859

Where did these completely believable conversions come from? Some study conducted, and then pulled out of your very own ass?

It makes sense that UK schools are better, though. After all, everyone tries to go to university in the UK, and not the US.

>>7588859
>the definition of "perfect" is different internationally
>perfect 100%
in America is an imperfect 75% in the UK.

Hmmm... yep seems about right. And you're calling others stupid?

Why don't you go ahead and call a registrar's office at any University, and ask them how your 75% average (from some unknown school) will transfer to their University. Report back to me about how they react when you tell them about your conversion factor, and how you really deserve an A.

>>7588865
I was referring to undergrad. I received an undergrad scholarship as well, just so you know. You didn't read my post. And stop samefagging.

>>7588862
>and what exactly is the justification behind that conversion?
The fact that your schools are a joke.

If you haven't noticed it's an American website. In fact most of your grad-school admission pages will show you a similar conversion for international students.

> Is there a formula used to convert UK grades to US grades, or are you completely pulling shit out of your ass?
Yes, the one on the site is a fixed formula.


If you want further examples. Consider Cambridge's (rated higher than virtually all your uni's so no dickwaving) requirements for international students

>http://www.graduate.study.cam.ac.uk/international-students/international-qualifications

The minimum requirement for US students is a 3.5 GPA (pic related, use the site yourself if you don't trust my screencaps) which is 87.5% by your own admission.

Compare this to fucking South Africa (next pic) which requires a minimum of only 75% (3.0 GPA).

For UK the minimum is only a Upper Second Class Honours Degree (50-70%).


This is how bad the grade inflation in the US has become.

>>7588862
>>7588884
Pic related, an African country's university standards is much higher than yours.

Only countries like Uganda etc. match your inflated standards.

>>7588866
See
>>7588884
>>7588887


Also I never said US universities aren't good at all. I'm emphasizing how bad your grade-inflation is.

>>7588867
>Why don't you go ahead and call a registrar's office at any University, and ask them how your 75% average (from some unknown school) will transfer to their University.
I already did, they referred me to http://www.foreigncredits.com/Resources/GPA-Calculator/

Keep thinking I'm making any of this up, your entire life is built on your delusional ego of course, not your actual achievements. I'm not even OP btw.

Have fun chasing a GPA in the special Olympics.

>>7588749
That's full of shit. Every final in every course I've ever taken (UC Berkeley) is at LEAST 45%, with midterms making up between 40 and 45% of the rest of the grade.

>>7588902
Not every uni in the US is grade-inflated.

>>7588884
What are you even trying to say? That you can enter a graduate level physics program at Cambridge (arguably the best University outside of America) with a 70-75% average? Of course they want a 3.5/4.0 from America. That's an A- average. Not to mention grade average is only a small portion of what admissions considers. It's really only to get your foot in the door. Then they want research experience, publications, etc.

>>7588884
>>7588887
>>7588893
>The minimum requirement for US students is a 3.5 GPA (pic related, use the site yourself if you don't trust my screencaps) which is 87.5% by your own admission.
>Compare this to fucking South Africa (next pic) which requires a minimum of only 75% (3.0 GPA).
>For UK the minimum is only a Upper Second Class Honours Degree (50-70%).
>This is how bad the grade inflation in the US has become.
American Universities accept more people from America, so it makes sense that their requirements are going to be more competitive. This doesn't necessarily mean that US GPA's are worse than the UK equivalent. I'm sure the same sort of thing happens in UK universities for American students. I couldn't find any particular GPA calculators, but on the Oxford website it was stated that there is no quota for international students and thus the application process is the same for UK and US students. So no need to convert any GPAs at all.

>>7588918
I'm not talking about admissions at all.

I'm talking about the fact that they officially use GPA converters almost precisely equivalent to >>7588796 and that I wasn't "pulling it out of my ass".


I don't understand how you could get that confused.

>>7588921
>American Universities accept more people from America, so it makes sense that their requirements are going to be more competitive.
What the fuck? Cambridge is not an American university you fucking retard.

I've shown you both American and UK institutions converting the GPAs. I'm sick of your retarded babbling, it's impossible to talk to anyone who can't comprehend more than 2 sentences.

Fuck this thread, you mouth breathing dolts can keep believing your ego grades are anything close to an equivalent of real grades. I don't care, I'm out.

>>7588884

what this picture shows is that a 3.7/4.0 is considered on par with a UK 70 % (the lowest percentage you can get for a first).

3.7 / 4 = 0.925 or 92.5 %

UK 70 % = USA 92.5 %

A grade of 50% would be a failing grade in the US, not a B.

Important to note: American grades are almost always curved to fit a normal grading distribution. The GPA system doe snot really account for the percentage of total points you got in the class, but where you fall on a spectrum after "corrections" were made to fit everyone onto the A, B, C... grading system.

As for all the talk of grade inflation, it is shown to exist in general, but when separated into different fields, the STEM fields show no such phenomenon. The problem is that the liberal arts and business programs have inflated grades and contain the majority of the student body.

>>7588998
If your average for most courses isn't 50% then your department has grade inflation. That was what it was across nearly all universities before grade inflation and what it's still like in UK universities. Though senior courses with lower fail rates and more dedicated students has averages around 60%.

>>7588893
>>7588905
USA is the premier grade-inflation nation

>>7589011
When you look at raw scores, that is what often comes out. When you look at "corrected" scores, the percentages are altered to fall into the categories associated with an A or a B, etc.

>>7589011
>>7589012
See the following for studies of grade inflation in the STEM fields at US universities:
http://www.businessinsider.com/science-majors-and-grade-inflation-2013-7

>>7589024

>We need to make humanities courses harder

I'm not gonna lie and say I don't enjoy an occasional zero-effort A...

Any anons know how to convert classe préparatoire grades into GPA ?

>>7589024
The meagre data in the Sixties, coupled with the large dispersion in the Nineties/Aughts, makes the trend-curve in the businessinsider graph worthless.

>>7589103
It was chosen as an example, there are many others besides this one. Anyways, ignoring the trend lines, the data still shows that all other fields have suffered significantly more from grade inflation than the natural sciences.

>>7588749
>The reason for this, as some of the non murrikans may not already know, is that USA universities don't have final exams that assess everything and count for 100 % of their grade for the course. A typical course mark is: 20 % from final exam, 30 % from various mid term tests, 10 % for attendance (srs), 10 % for speaking in class (srs), 20 % for homework, and 10 % for some token thing like contributing to the online message boards of the course (srs).
It depends on the class. Usually classes like that are first year general education classes (history 101, english 101, etc.). Biology classes are usually (30% midterm, 30% final, 20% lab, 20% project) or (25% first test, 25% second test, 25% third test, 25% final test).

As an American, none of this matters. No American in their right mind would go university abroad because the university will be shittier than their option in the US.

It does matter for you Eurocucks, though, as you all seem to be clawing at the door of the US so that you can attend one of our superior universities.

>>7588749
>ITT European circle jerk

Education has been reduced to egotistical grade bukkake. No wonder medical schools are filled with dull dyel autists that cannot hold an intelligent conversation about anything that isn't medicine.You're all premeds at heart. Cock sucking, point scrounging, dirty premeds

>>7589162
yeah, only general education courses are like that
my stem classes roughly follow your first percentages

>>7589239
i want to be a medical examiner nigger, i have to follow all the same classes as the pre-meds. I hate my peers, they suck the professors dick for good grades, and I know one chick that did so literally.
I love the classes, I don't understand why these people are here for something they don't want to work for

>>7589264
>I love the classes, I don't understand why these people are here for something they don't want to work for

Worst part is they keep multiplying and begin to whine about their lack of interest in the course or its difficulty. It's like someone learning how to play the piano who breathes a sigh of dread every time he approaches the damn thing. I found overemphasis on learning theory through textbook grinding and lack of trial and error practical learning in undergrad frustrating, but atleast my curiousity and passion for organic chemistry got me through. I have no idea what is motivating these people in an age full of fun distractions.

>>7588796
This isn't true.

>>7588749
>10 % for attendance (srs), 10 % for speaking in class (srs), 20 % for homework, and 10 % for some token
Bullshit classes maybe.

But hard classes like Math,Science,etc and hell even some Adv Reading are 100% Finals or 3 tests.

>>7588796
>50 gets a b
Confirmed wrong.

It's actually harder in American classes. European classes, a 60% is a passing grade, where in America a 75% is like a D-

>>7588789

>http://www.foreigncredits.com/Resources/GPA-Calculator

Lmao I used to think a 4.0 GPA was good...

>>7588796

>American """""education"""""

>>7589239
So?

>implying GPAs in different systems can be accurately compared

Stop this dick-measuring contest. GPA is incredibly useful in comparison to other GPAs using the same scale. It's got nothing to do with "easier" or "harder".

>>7588749
Hey, how do undergrad admissions for you britfags work, like they based entirely on merit reflected by your A-levels/IB, or can you still have your entire future assfucked by a humanties teacher you happen to disagree with like over here?
Also do you have to be enrolled at some school to take A-levels, or do some people do the autodidact thing

>>7588749
>A typical course mark is: 20 % from final exam, 30 % from various mid term tests, 10 % for attendance (srs), 10 % for speaking in class (srs), 20 % for homework, and 10 % for some token thing like contributing to the online message boards of the course (srs).

for liberal arts fags, maybe.

typical STEM course rubric in the US is 30% final, 30% midterm, 15% homework, 5% extra credit/instructor discretion, and 20% project/lab.

oh what that? i forgot that europoors only take autistic exams and don't actually build anything. no wonder the US still has the top ranking engineering schools.

:^)

>>7588789
this can't be true
according to this a 75%+ in all courses in my country (not the UK) is the equivalent of a perfect 4.0 in the US

the average grade in most courses here tends to be around 50-60%, what's the average grade in an average US university course?

>>7589501
should note that the major is mathematics

>>7589501
all of the professors at my school shoot for a 70% average.

it ends up being +/- 5% though.

>>7589011
>If your average for most courses isn't 50% then your department has grade inflation.
average grades can only be interpreted relative to the intended average grade for the course. two different classes can have two different expected grades with equal difficulties and expectations for mastery of the material.

if you design your tests such that mastery of the material means that a class gets a 70% on average, that doesn't mean the grade is inflated - it means the test was easier. However, that doesn't mean the mastery of the material is any less than students who faced a harder test.

>>7589496
>30% final, 30% midterm, 15% homework, 5% extra credit/instructor discretion, and 20% project/lab

>getting grades for midterm
>getting grades from homework
Nigger you do homework to learn the material not to fuck get ez gradez nigga
>5% extra credit/instructor discretion
wtf is this shit nigger

The major difference between schools in the US and europe is that US schools are semi-private institutions who are in direct competition with each other for money.

you might think this kind of capitalist intrusion into academia is bad, but its not. the result is, teachers and staff in US schools actually give a shit about teaching you.

graded homework, projects, and even attendance (depending on the class) exist. if you force a group of people to practice something, you are going to get better at it.

if i force you to come to class and interact with people, you are going to get better at it.

if i make you apply your knowledge to a physical project, you are going to get better at doing that too.

the whole point is to improve you as a person, not just fucking haze you with exams for 4 years and see who makes it.

euro schools don't give a fuck. pass, fail. learn, don't learn. whatever, we're state funded and theres a billion of you.

>>7589540
clueless American who has never left his state detected

>>7589540
>this whole post
The american universities are all about extracting money from students that take huge fucking loans

I rather have my asshole professors that make the exams a pain in the ass to pass thanks

>>7589527
>wtf is this shit nigger
sometimes a quick 1 question quiz every week or mini project. alot of my professors use it to get cheap labor for their research and scout grad school candidates.

>>7589527
IUBloomington Math here most of our classes are either:
1) ~30 final, ~10 exam 1 ~10 exam 2 ~50 psets

(these classes have long problem sets that go over material not really lectured on and is more typical of honors classes. Pset answers are not available to the students and they are graded on accuracy similar to how an exam is graded) It should be noted that doing practice problems outside the homework to be comfortable with the material in the homework is usually required.

2) ~40 final, ~20 exam 1 ~20 exam 2 ~20 psets
these classes have psets that are usually graded on completion except for maybe one or two problems which are graded on accuracy. Exams are longer and tougher and the problem sets are totally geared towards practice of the concepts.

>>7589561
>The american universities are all about extracting money from students that take huge fucking loans
This. Like half the tuition fee the student pay go to assets management firms.

>>7589540
Best part about euro uni's are that nobody cares what you do and how. Nobody forces you to go to class, do your exersices, or even really pass a class. Part of being in a uni is learning to be self reliant and force your self to study. No professor is going to hold your hand.

This might be an alien concept to american but as the uni's usually have difficult entrance exams people how get to undergrad and grad programs are usually motivated and talented. And with capitalism out of the picture, professors and uni have no incentive to inflate grades and let you pass easily. In my country the grades are from 1-5 and 1 is considered acceptable, 3 good and if the course is difficult, it's not rare for nobody to score 4 or 5.

Of course uni's are going produce few nth year students with barely passable master's theses but who cares, if they cannot learn themselves, who is gonna to that for them?

>>7589540
But that's literally the best part of European universities. For the first time in your education, no one is forcing you to do anything.
If you feel you can learn the course material by yourself, you're allowed to, and then you can do whatever you feel like on your time off. Of course, this isn't true for every class (anything requiring lab time or project work, for example), but you're generally expected to be motivated and wanting to improve yourself without needing a teacher to hold your hand.

Americans tend to regard freedom as one of the underlying principles of a happy life, but the American education system is one of the least free there is.

>>7589611
>professors and uni have no incentive to inflate grades

you ever think that the "grade inflation" you refer to is just a result of actually teaching people? if i, as a teacher, make a strong effort to ensure my students grasp the material, is it no surprise that they score better on exams?

>>7589496
>oh what that? i forgot that europoors only take autistic exams and don't actually build anything. no wonder the US still has the top ranking engineering schools.
That is wrong. In Europe we also have projects and labs which count for maybe a fifth of the final grade. The difference is that here you actually have to know what you're playing with and have a deep understanding of physics/math when you're studying engineering, hence the emphasis on exams. Otherwise you simply don't make the cut, no matter how shiny your DIY mass spectrometer was. No wonder Europe makes the most reliable rockets.

>yuros are LITERALLY incapable of getting more than 70% in a class

And they have the gall to call Americans stupid? smh tbh fam

>>7589611
>Best part about euro uni's are that nobody cares what you do and how. Nobody forces you to go to class, do your exersices, or even really pass a class.
That's the same everywhere, my special little snowflake.

Yeah American universities are so bad, it's no wonder European students don't come here in droves... oh wait.

Someone please post a few typical US exams and EU exams.

>>7589646
if you think Oklahoma state and Harvard have more in common than Harvard and Cambridge you're out of your mind m8

>>7589646
2nd year fluid mechanics

I'm sorry, but this is a hilarious post. We have some of the best Universities in the World, here in the USA. People from all over the world fight to enter in. We have the most Nobel Prize winners, and technological advancements are championed in numerous universities. Simply put, a graduate from an American University, in any field, is more likely to change the world.

>>7589625
>easily most common grade is A
>anything below A is regarded dogshit

"B-but our teaching is so great, everybody gets p-perfect scores"

>>7589663
>easily most common grade is A
pulling shit out of your ass tbh.

>>7589667
>>7589012

literally in this thread

>>7588749
Actually we truly have the best of both worlds here in Europe.
>Study nearly for free, and still get world-class education
>Can emigrate to the US, or anywhere else for that matter
>No debt at all
Sure Europe isn't perfect but I truly wouldn't want to have been born anywhere else.

>>7589660
>a graduate from an American University, in any field, is more likely to change the world.
did you divide by the number of graduates or are you just pulling shit out of your ass?

>>7589669
>includes Nationally Accredited universities and tech schools

LOL, okay buddy.

>>7588749
>waaaaaaah i had to struggle while Americans achieve greatness easily
>muh grading scale was harder waaaaaah
>w-why wont anyone take me for my great test taking abilities!?!?!???

Thanks for reaffirming my love for America loser. B)

>>7588749
>tfw my marks are 100% decided in 1.5 hour oral exams
>tfw I can't think clearly after 1 hour and start asking the professors to repeat their question multiple times

I still have nightmares from my commutative algebra oral exam in which I had to draw the algebraic varieties that correspond to certain ideals via the nullstellensatz

>>7589671
>>Can emigrate to the US, or anywhere else for that matter
Why would you want to emigrate in the US when you have CERN, the VLT (the E-ELT), the JET (and ITER) ? Most of frontier science has flown back in Europe when it belongs after crony capitalism ruled the US for decades. The US is great for codemonkeys interested in making smartphone apps for hipsters tho, I'll give you that.

>>7589673

All you have to do is search online and you'll find many rankings of universities worldwide. USA tops all of them (at least all I've seen). Here are some examples:

The Guardian
US News
Universitas 21 Ranking
listcrux


As for Nobel Prize winners:
1st) USA - 344
2nd) UK - 119

So yes, I do believe being educated in America makes you more likely and prepared to change the world.

>>7589671
>No debt at all
Same for the best American universities actually, you just have to be from a family that doesn't make much money.

>>7589700
this. university tuiton is mostly just a tax on the middle class.

>>7589696
American research is very concentrated in universities which is why they score so high. The Max Planck institute in Germany for example has 38 Nobel laureates (3 in the last 10 years) but you won't find it on any list because it's not a university. The UK and Switzerland are similar to the US in this regard and you see a number of their universities on all those lists.

Also note that according to your own numbers the average Brit is almost twice as likely to win a Nobel than the average American as there are 5 times as many Americans as Brits.

And finally it's obvious that those educated in MIT, Harvard or UC Berkeley tend to be good, disregarding the fact that where you do your undergraduate doesn't really matter compared to your graduate studies. As are they in Oxford, Cambridge, etc. as those are all top tier universities and I don't think anyone is trying to dispute that. But only a small minority of American/British graduates ever get anywhere near those schools. What about Oklahoma State, Shetland College, etc.

>>7589692
Skunkworks

>>7589720

Nothing you have said has actually contradicted my initial assertion that America has the best Universities in the World. Also, ever major (subject) you might want to pursue will have a world caliber university somewhere in the USA. So not only do we have the best, but the best of everything. Why not just admit that America has great higher level education?

>>7589727
>Why not just admit that America has great higher level education?
Because I never denied or contested that claim. That statement is true as it stands.

I contested the claim that:
>a graduate from an American University, in any field, is more likely to change the world
which seems to based on nothing but thin air and nationalistic fantasies

>>7588855
Hahahaha no. US schools get more money for domestic students because of nsf grants etc., at least in stem fields. And this is a partial reason for making international admissions much more competitive. You have it the wrong way around, sorry.

>>7589731

A degree from an American University is more valuable, in general, than other countries. This is supported by the large number of foreigners that come to America compared to other countries for higher level education, and the companies around the world that place a higher value on degrees from American Universities. In other words, you would need to go to a very elite foreign school to even compete with most UC or USC for example (in California). This comes straight from fortune 500 company recruiters. I'm sorry buddy, but the world does indeed value an American degree, since we have so many good colleges and consistent quality.

>>7589767

I can personally attest to this. It is VERY expensive for foreigners to come to an American university, and local (within State) residence also get preference.

>>7589772
In America maybe. Where I'm at (Scandinavia) you're going to need a top tier uni like MIT or Harvard to compete with university of Copenhagen, Lund, Uppsala, etc.
Texas State no matter how highly ranked by American companies won't beat them out.

wew lads. this has been some mediocre shitposting. i was expecting better bantz tbh tbf.

>>7589778
Cool shit cuck

>>7589831

>mfw I went to a shitty state university in the US and studied engineering
>mfw I graduated with a 3.4 GPA and zero debt
>mfw I did research and published an academic paper while in undergrad
>mfw I got job straight out of school making $100,000/yr pre-bonus
>mfw I read eurocuck posts in this thread bitching about how bad US universities are and how bad grade inflation is

I'm so glad my family emigrated from Europe 30 years ago and came here. Literally nobody gives a fuck about grades as long as you get your stupid degree and aren't retarded.

>>7589778
lmao just stop

this thread is funny

euros acting like their universities are even worth mentioning
>literally aren't which is why nobody knows them
is always a treat

>>7588796

>B is 60
>A is 65-90

Yeah American education does look retarded when you misrepresent it totally.

>A is 4.0, 90-100%
>B is 3.0, 80-90%

If you have a 3.5 in the US you have roughly equal A and B grades. Many professors believe that average students deserve C grades and will only shell out B and A grades for those that go above and beyond base requirements.

Yeah, try getting A's and B's in any real degree.

You will eat shit and be happy you made C's.

It's funny how american engineering certifications are valid in europe yet the european equivalents aren't valid here

lmao gee wiz I wonder why

>>7589939
not that guy University of Lund is very well known

>>7589954
but*

>>7589663
>average grade at my uni (Cal) is B-
>Avg GPA 2.98
Uwot

>>7589653
>numbers on an exam
Truly horrifying.

>>7589943
>muh Washington Accord
Every single time.
I wonder if it is one fag posting all of this, or if one guy started it and others latched onto it, too.

>>7590000
Dayum

>>7589646

>>7588749
If you want to get into any college then disregard your GPA and self teach yourself the subject you want a degree in using internet sources and get an authorship on a published paper. Universities and colleges will be BEGGING you to apply for them and merit money will be promised by future employers. The best part is that you get to pick the employer too.

>>7589501
Why would you want to go to a university where you can only expect to get marked for half the work you do? Why would you think you're actually learning if only half the stuff you ever do is correct? Whats the point in teaching people by giving them work too hard for them to do?

Imagine a driver licence test. The first part involves driving through a city. The second involves getting above third place in a Formula 1 race. There's no use in doing the second one just to learn to drive.

You're probably from France where everyone is pretentious, grades are given based on opinion, and the point of university is to impress your snobbish superiors rather than learn from them.

I would just love it if that logic was applied to anything else, be it cooking, sports, weight lifting, art...

>>7588776
Not everyone goes to CC
>>7589720
People with degrees from Oklahoma state generally arent very respected by employers

>>7590051
OU on the other hand has a great engineering program.

>>7590051

Not everyone is aiming to be a wage cuck ordained by the holy temple of Confucius. Some get into STEM for reasons other than signalling in the labour market. Shocking I know.

>>7590041
Not same-fag here.

You address nothing particularly intelligent through your post and tie the viability of the European education system to hastily concocted analogies.

100% would mean the instructor has taught students to be 100% at his level in terms of understanding and communicating the subject matter/curriculum. Its a metric that describes "How much of my peer are you"? "Can you talk to my other peers and not embarrass yourself?". This contrasts with American standards where students are essentially competing because college has become some sort of pipeline into industry. Since grades in America are determined by smartest and dumbest in your class. Your GPA is only reflective of how smart you are in comparison to your classmates.

University,however, in its conception was not about career expansion and inserting yourself into the work world. It was about learning to contribute to a knowledge base. There exist in America no real metric that compares researchers and academicians to one another to establish a measure of competency their field. Furthermore, American tests/standards keep the student from becoming knowledgable about what they don't know.
As opposed to rewarding an American student with 100% for knowing about that one vector derivative you went over in class over and over again. Then having that student assume that he's hot shit for knowing dummed down problems the professor hinted would be on the exam. This is the reason over half of the faculty and a majority of research throughput at your University comes from researchers originating from China, India, Europe.

Your drivers liscence analogy is nonsensical and your F1 comparison is invalidated by the "% of the instructors competency" criteria I expressed above.
Since driving a car is not rocket science. By only being required to match or try to match the competency of your instructor the bar is set low and obtaining 100% is feasible.

>>7588749
>10 % for attendance (srs), 10 % for speaking in class (srs), 20 % for homework, and 10 % for some token thing like contributing to the online message boards of the course (srs).
Lolno, my university is only tru for this if you're going into shit like journalism or art or some gay shit.

>>7589540
>competition with each other for money

You're wrong. The way they attract students has nothing to do with grades, if had, legacy students and sport scholarships wouldn't even be a thing.

While Ivy leagues are just becoming a big dick contest, community colleges are just diploma factories.

>>7588749

>it's harder for Americans to receive respected, passing grades than in the UK

Yup, once again, Americans setting the standard for competency and professionalism. Please continue to laugh as we land fucking rovers on Mars and have our universities dominate the best global universities list. Shit, even a party school like UW - Madison trumps some of Europe's best schools.

>>7588796
>50%
>B
>3.0
this is fake

>>7589436
It is. Welcome to your new reality without your egotistical delusions.

>>7589446
Are you fucking retarded? You just said "it's not true, look here's an example of how it's true".

>>7589943
Continental Europe is shit no one ever doubted that.

UK and third world Washington accord degrees are valued higher in the US than US engineering degrees though.

>>7590617
>Yet another idiot
See
>>7588859
>>7588884
>>7588887

>>7588749
>that last paragraph

In my second year maths courses it's 20% for internal assignments (quite hard, but I'm not intelligent) and 80% for 2hr final exam.

What the fuck.

>>7588749
>Americans spend half of their undergrad years doing shit not at all related to their major
>Being surprised that they don't understand shit and need to sit piss easy papers

Come on guys, we all knew this.

>>7590987
Don't forget how confused and angry they get when they realize that spending 60+ hours per week on your degree is considered normal in most parts of the world.

>>7588749
>mfw 3.31 GPA at an American state university
>major is mechanical engineering

Am I retarded /sci/?

>>7588776

Keep in mind that as /sci/ shits on IQ more than GPA (because they think GPA represents "muh accomplishmuntz" better), GPA in school is a far worse predictor of job performance than IQ across all job types.

>>7591064
Because /sci/ is full of literal, actual, nerds. The kind that aren't actually smart, just obedient tryhards and gradegrubbers in school.

Like Milhouse. When the writers want him to be.

>>7589621
True tbh fam.

>>7589561
Gropen dick

>>7591039
this tbh. americans post here braging that they work 3-4 hours a day.

>>7588749
>I jist found out how rampant grade inflation is in americuck """universities"""

>>7588796
>50 is a B

Wut the fuck is going on in america

>>7590000
Pretty sure it's just one american cuckgineer who posts it.

Nice digits bro consider them checked

>>7590548
>community colleges are just diploma factories.

you can't get a 4 year degree from community college.

>>7591054
Depends on what school. Engineering schools in particular vary wildly on how they inflate/deflate grades.

To be honest I'm confused how euros think that a 60% average in a class is somehow a good thing. If there is not a single student across multiple years of a class, in a sample size of say 1000+, who understands a question on an exam, was the subject of that question actually taught in the first place?
How is that getting an education, when compared to studying in a course with a clearly defined scope?

I fully understand the need to have tests that prioritize on-the-spot reasoning over memorization, especially on entrance exams, but why, in a course where the goal is to learn things, ask a question with no expectation of it being answerable?

>>7589611
>In my country the grades are from 1-5 and 1 is considered acceptable, 3 good and if the course is difficult, it's not rare for nobody to score 4 or 5.
>the lowest possible grade is considered acceptable
So a student can just never care about the class, get the lowest possible scores on everything, and still graduate? What the fuck is the point of even having an exam, then?

>>7591125
yes you can

>>7588796

The pic saids nothing, for instance what is "most common" grading representative of? Is it utilizing a fixed grading method or grading curve method?

>>7588749
>britcucks can literally pass all their classes with sub 70% grades, be given a degree and find an actual job with this level of knowledge

Well, I'm glad I'm an american and never need to rely on services provided by foreigners, aside from the mexicans picking my fruit.

>>7591163
Man those multiple choice papers must be tough

>>7591139
Exam questions are supposed to be difficult and beyond anything you've seen before in a textbook or tutorial.

You are not "taught" to solve difficult, you have to actually be intelligent to get an engineering or science degree at institutions with standards.

In fact all ABET institutions were supposed to be like this, but more than half the universities in the US would lose their accreditation if it were so it's a political thing where ABET is trying to retain it's relevance.

>>7591139
>If there is not a single student across multiple years of a class, in a sample size of say 1000+, who understands a question on an exam

That would be true only for the very last and hardest questions and an exam, and in a sample size of 1000+ you still would have a good chance of a handful good student giving some answers to them.

In the absolute worst case the average performance is about 30% of the question answered decently (and another 10% touched). It could be a tad harder for national contests, but that's because unlike in small grad level courses the level of the conestants varies wildly.

And the absolute worst case would only happen when the prof is crazy, which is part of the hazards of being taught by acadmics.

>>7588771
>Cheating on an exam is fucking some basic shit,
No it isn't.
>exam halls with individual desks spaced 1 m apart in a square grid
>exam questions involved and advanced enough that simply bringing in a 1 page "cheat sheet" of formulas won't do shit because none of the questions are simply plugging numbers into a formula
>at least 5 examiners patrolling a room of ~200 students
>escorted to and from toilet
>room silent apart from pen noises and paper shuffling, phone vibrations heard easily
>phone use likely to be seen even if you hunch over desk, time pressure means any benefit would be minimal

Go on, tell me how "basic" it would be to cheat in an exam, you fucking retard.
Do you regularly break into your university's examination office a couple of nights before the exam and just hope you can find a copy kept in the right pile or drawer or lying on an academic's desk? Please , shut up.

>>7589696
Rankings are decided primarily by citations, I.e. Research, an indication of how good your department is to do a PhD or post doc work at.

>>7592628
>1 m apart
Are you so blind that you can't see three feet away from you?

Also, being able to work on complex projects with a team is a lot more valuable skill than being able to sit by yourself in a room and solve a few problems, which is why my university had some sort of group project in every engineering class.

I don't have the job I do now in the aerospace industry because I could take tests well. I got it because I could show my interviewers a class project that showed that I can lead a team of engineers to complete a project.

>>7589138
>It was chosen as an example
... of worthlessness?
Good choice.

>>7588749
>>find out that american GPAs correspond completely to percentages rather than being some weird system
>>americans consider anything under a 3.5 GPA (87.5%) a failure

That isn't true. At all.

I dunno about other schools and majors, but you got what you got in my school. When I went to get my physics BS in the US, grading was very much by the book and no tears were shed for people who dropped or failed the classes (For most classes, most failed or dropped). Our major had a good number of immigrants and pretty much everyone agreed that it was difficult. What I don't know is if it was the department, the major or if it was an outlier of both groups.

>>7589012
>see this thread
>check out all of the class averages of classes that I took in my bachelors
>the average is around 3.1 in german grades, so 0.9 in american grade
>all this time I just assumed people on /sci/ would be geniuses with their >3.7 GPA.
>turns out, this is just USA average GPA
kek

>>7593297
>this would be considered illegal in america and the prof would be fired

>>7588749

>87.5% is a failure

Only an AMD cuck would think this

>>7593420
Oh wow I always thaught the Masters Level courses in Maths are graded less strict

>>7593420
What? We both wrote a numerics of ODEs class at the exact same time?

The module name is slightly different so we must be at different universities but what are the chances.

>>7593429
TUCaN shows the grades depending on more context than it shows you, one of you is in a different program or retook the class
t. HRZ

>>7593429
Nice! Prof. Lang?

>>7589012
40% get As?

>>7593434
Yes, not every exam can be a Kohler exam.

>>7591169
>mfw learned about multiple choice tests in the usa

>>7593444
>>7593429
>>7593426
>>7593420
Is 1-5 the fraction out of 5? How does your grades work?

Why the fuck can't you cuckholds have percentages like normal countries?

>>7593458
american grade = 5 - german grade
so 5.0 is failed, 1.0 is the best grade

>>7593458
1.0 = A
1.3 = A-
1.7 = B+
2.0 = B
2.3 = B-
2.7 = C+
3.0 = C
3.3 = C-
3.7 = D+
4.0 = D
5.0 = F

>>7593458
1.0 - 1.3 great
1.7 - 2.7 ok
3.0 - 3.7 what are doing
4.0 50% points in final exam
5.0 failed

>>7588749
>A typical course mark is: 20 % from final exam, 30 % from various mid term tests, 10 % for attendance (srs), 10 % for speaking in class (srs), 20 % for homework, and 10 % for some token thing like contributing to the online message boards of the course (srs).

>>7593463
>>7593464
>>7593465
Thanks.

American universities have become the product of standardized testing. They teach you how to pass the test, instead of teaching how to master the material. This is why American college graduates have problems doing their jobs. They've been accustomed to being spoon fed information and how to do things by someone else.

>>7593465
Bullshit
1.7-2.3 is "highly above average" aka good
2.7-3.7 is "average" aka satisfying
4.0 is "has many faults, but we let you pass"
I guess you are at a substandard university if 1.7 is "ok".

>>7593444
>tfw I'm still able to recite the proof for kolmogorov's 0-1 law word for word, but don't have any idea about any basic concepts like what a martingale is.
>>7593426
NumODE is a bachelors class.
But you're right, since most master courses have oral final exams and profs are too much of a pussy to shit on you when you sit in front of them, even if you deserve it.

what a shit show

>>7588749
Thise grade inflation methods actually hurt my grade more than help and it pisses me off. I got 100% on both midterms (i know my school is a joke) but im losing at least 20% in the class because im too lazy to do their online homework tutorial bullshit and i skip a lot of classes

>>7592628
> escorted to and from toilet

I wish my dick was so big I could't fit a folded piece of paper in my inderwear

>>7588749
I wish our schools were like that. I basically bomb everything but the final because they give out too much busywork.

Down here in AUS GPA can vary from uni to uni, but at mine it goes from 3-7, where 7 is straight high distinctions throughout your whole undergrad career. If you're above 6 you're looking pretty good. 5-6 is above average. 4-5 is okay, and 3-4 is " P's get degree's " tier.

>>7593507
>Thise grade inflation methods actually hurt my grade more than help and it pisses me off

>im too lazy to do their online homework tutorial bullshit and i skip a lot of classes

Being this retarded

Americans, answer me. Do you seriously get 80 % on a test and think you did badly?

>>7594204
Exam questions in the USA are usually problems that were already discussed either in the lecture or in the homework just with changed numbers.

Getting a 80% on such a test is indeed bad.

>>7594214

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh lawd, MIT in ruins