/sci/ - Science & Math

>>7501996
Have fun in the salt mines. Btw, Einstein went to college.

>>7502007
Why can't I just learn a valuable skill on my spare time then use that skill to get a job somewhere nice?

>>7501996
Formal education is more socially relevant than intellectually. If you need formal education to force you to do something, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place.

>>7502020
Anything a uni provides can be done correctly if the person at hand actually tries. Actually having a social life outside of that institution may probably have greater gratification.
I suppose attending a top uni or Ivy has its own merit but for the most part most people will not be attending these places.

>>7502019
Of course you can learn to mine salt in your spare time, don't worry

>>7502058
Whatever you say, mr. Mac.

The Real Real Real Truth: If you cannot even manage to get into a college you're too dumb to do anything at all science wise.

>>7502007
he barely even made it

>>7501996
>tfw extremely uncomfortable in academic environments
>tfw lose motivation when in class
>tfw learn much more effectively by myself
formal education is mostly for wagecucks who go only to get a job tbh

I went to college next to a salt mine. You could even work there inside of some school programs.

>>7501996
>>7502019
>>7502020
>>7502024
>>7502058
>>7502063
>>7502070
>all of these underage anons that were brainwashed by other underage anons that legitimately think that university isn't worth attending anymore and that everyone should just learn everything professionally from their computer at home
I would not live in such a society because it would be called anarchy, and I would bet that almost all of the anons that I replied to are in actuality university students that are bitter, or they are loonies that have no idea how our society works.

>>7501996
Nope.
>>7502019
Because reality.

The fact of the matter is that there are too many things that wouldn't work without formal education, regardless of the branch of business you're in.

It's similar to the value of a respected, hard to obtain certificate in highly technological areas. It's a guarantee that the person in question knows at the very least the basics of what they're doing. With it come certain aspects of community, reputation, and networking that are essential to validate the person's skills, motivation, and their ability to focus on their work for a great length of time. This is only further emphasized there more difficult branch it is we're talking about.

If anyone could just get to work by googling about a specific issue for a few years, we'd have a bunch of idiots all over the place who had no real idea of the background or the interconnectivity of what they're working with in the first place.

Granted, very few exceptional individuals could outperform many or even most of the formally educated people, but they'd be few and far between, and there would be no real way to differentiate between them until they either made horrible mistakes, or didn't. Furthermore, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that such gifted individuals would have no trouble just getting that formal education in the first place.

I think topics such as this spawn from myths made up by the overly bloated egos of a certain kind of people who think they're better than they are. The millions of your kind are not savants or new Von Neumanns, who would come up with a theory of unification if only the crutch that is formal education and would-be employer's bias would stop holding your back. You're just stupid, without realising it. Or autistic. Same thing in the end, since all work today is done by collaborating with multiple other people, in shared frameworks and work methodologies anyway.

These threads are a great example to the motto of
>Stay in school
because nobody that was smart would ever think something so ass backwards.

No shit you can learn how to make dragon dildos or whatever in your spare time, that's called
>hobby

Of course you can get lucky after learning graphics design or video editing in your spare time and actually get some shitty little job with it if you're good enough

You will never be able to become most things in STEM without a post-secondary degree, because nobody would have any reason to believe that you knew anything without a formal piece of paper, in a nutshell, saying that you did well enough in 4-5 years of a mechanical engineering curriculum that you've been certified by a credible institution of higher education and can be trusted to do a good job and be a well rounded human being in society today.

These dreams, dare I say delusions, that I see posted only on 4chan about learning your shit at home; programming or multi-media, maybe if you stick with it for years, but most other things, you're wrong.

>>7502096
I get on sci only to demotivate undergrads by posting depressive real life stories to make them wanna quit

>>7502096
What the shit does this post mean

>>7502116
If only you stayed in school and didn't fall for the meme.

Only the biggest consumers who aren't ashamed of being cucks to the system will go to uni and as well will also own all things Apple.
Don't try to pretend that you're pursuing a STEM degree for any other fact besides money and status.

>>7502122
this post looks like you're just talking to yourself tbh

if we can eliminate public school eventually we can move on to a more rational merit based certification system, in which people go to college for things they already have a decent grasp on in order to obtain mastery. there would be less people graduating with degrees that turn out to be fucking useless on the job.

>>7502122
i'm going into engineering because i want to work with big machines to perform critical tasks and use 2,000,000 dollar CNC machines. that's what i want to do. i work in an ice cream factory right now. that's now what i want to do. school is my way of transitioning between what i want to do and what i don't want to do.

>>7502130
daily reminder that university is for higher education and has never been job training

and that you're an idiot

>>7502122
speak for yourself

>>7502134
higher education has never existed outside the context of 'job training'. there never has been and never will be a use for 'higher education' outside of accomplishing tasks with knowledge.

anyone who thinks that being 'educated higher' by people without any purpose for their efforts is a worthwhile use of time, is a patented idiot.

>>7502133
>i'm going into engineering because i want to work with big machines
>school is my way of transitioning

What would Freud have to say about that? Confirmed for engineer though.

>>7502139
0/10

>>7502099
mad macfag lmao

>>7502122
>>7502156
Rofl. Look, if you guys need to tell yourselves this to get you through your broke-ass, depressed and autistic lives living under the boot heels of us accomplished, educated, well earning and respected people, then fine. We really don't give a rat's ass.

My only problem is that some loon somewhere figured it was worth the trouble to pay you useless, weak, stupid and lazy bums through social support with my money. If it was up to me, the tax payers' money would be spent on something more fruitful than supporting losers with nothing to offer to the society save for their delusions of grandeur, but I guess I'll just have to settle for the pleasure of knowing just how much of a failure you all are in life. You know this too, despite your cliché tough guy shitposting. But like I said, if moaning your ass off here helps you feel better, go for it, champs.

Meanwhile I'm pondering what else I can buy with my hard earned money, where I'll spend my next vacation. And I've been thinking about getting a new car too, just because I fucking can.

Ahhh, life sure is nice when you're not a chump.

>>7502170
gl fam

I go to school because i like learning new stuff. Wage slaves and career mongers go get fucked

>>7502104
this post is good

>>7502070
hahahahaha

>>7502122
im going to engineering so I can help mankind create robots and AI. I don't really care about the money(that much) since I don't plan on living lavishly or having a family...

>>7502070
>[Einstein] barely even made it [college]...
The next guy has it right:
>>7502195
>hahahahaha

See you're proving our point here mr 7502070. Your source material must be some shitty meme based "documentary" from FOX, and your ability for criticism is on the level of a 5 yearold child.

Otherwise you'd know better. But how could you, with no formal education. Or more importantly, how could you have that education, when you're so dumb you couldn't make it anyway.

Where did those stupid rumors of Einstein being bad at school etc come from anyway? He had issues with authority, but he was an *exceptional* student from day one, and typically got top grades in all things science.

I guess this is just one of those fantasies dumb people like to tell themselves and take for face value the second they hear it, because it's so much easier to believe than just accepting that they're dumb, and not going anywhere. Formal education or not.

>>7502215
>Where did those stupid rumors of Einstein being bad at school etc come from anyway? He had issues with authority, but he was an *exceptional* student from day one, and typically got top grades in all things science.
Because a report card had a lot of 6s on it, but 6 was the best grade one could get, and 1 the worst. People assumed it was the other way.

>>7502215
I'm not trying to support the whole, "smart people aren't always good at school," meme, but Stephen Smale, a 1966 Fields medalist, did terrible in school until one of his advisors in grad school got him to get his shit together.

Daily reminder that if these STEM fields didn't come with the paycheck they've promised none of you would pursue them. You're all just tricking yourself into thinking that you're helping mankind when in reality you're just helping yourself out.

>>7502179
>implying you don't just like the idea of learning and not actually learning itself.

>>7502170
>claims to be educated
>resorts to personal attacks and bragging about income
okay lad.

reminder that faraday never had formal education

>>7502122
If this wasn't correct it wouldn't have triggered the defense mechanism of all these conglomerates that replied.

>>7502244
Yes yes there are and always will be the few exceptions to the rule. And those exceptions will never do anything to prove the rule wrong. Even then, if getting your act together (which usually involves nothing more than learning the basics of respecting authority, rules, laws and social customs) is what prevents you from getting to school, you can bet your ass you'd have even bigger problems with any real work.

Now I'm not bashing you, mind you. You made a fair point and you're right. I just have an issue with the delusions of these masses of people who never got their education, and like some religious nuts they then go fantasizing about how each and every one of them are really these big geniuses inside, just being held back by the big bad system.

I mean, seriously. I can come out and say it: I'm not a genius. I'm nowhere near that smart. I'm just smarter than average. That, and a lot of insanely hard work, was enough to get me through Uni, and to get a good career going. If I was as dumb as these people though, so incapable of criticizing myself I couldn't even see my own very real limitations, now THAT would make me worried. Except of course that in that case, I wouldn't even know any better.

Point is, be honest to yourself. Recognize and work *around* your flaws, and push to focus on your strengths. If you just make-believe you're a fucking Einstein with a conspiracy theory on his back holding him down, then you'll never get anywhere regardless of where (if anywhere) your real talents lie. These delusions people have of themselves just piss me off to no end.

>>7502104
>nobody would have any reason to believe that you knew anything without a formal piece of paper
Doesn't apply to engineering or computer science. If some 14 year old built a F16 in his bedroom he built a fucking F16 in his bedroom, his skills are indisputable and Lockheed would hire him. Extreme example but you can see why companies take programmers without formal training because they have a good portfolio that speaks for itself.
>Granted, very few exceptional individuals could outperform many or even most of the formally educated people

Meh, I'd happily challenge any graduate in a mechanical design competition. I have much more working experience in the field therefore I know what is doable irl and what isn't. From what I've seen graduates always seem to be painfully unaware of the limitations of manufacturing technology which is what I specialize in.
>I think topics such as this spawn from myths made up by the overly bloated egos of a certain kind of people who think they're better than they are. The millions of your kind are not savants or new Von Neumanns, who would come up with a theory of unification if only the crutch that is formal education and would-be employer's bias would stop holding your back. You're just stupid, without realising it. Or autistic. Same thing in the end, since all work today is done by collaborating with multiple other people, in shared frameworks and work methodologies anyway.
You sound threatened. Saying no to university isn't saying you're a savant who is too good for it, it's saying that you learn better outside of a formal environment. In my case I learned better on the job. I'm still working with people, I just get more freedom to try out my ideas and work on different things whereas in university it's "we're gonna learn only this and we are gonna learn it only this way"

>>7502106
Post story?

>>7502271
>sees the whole topic being filled with insults to formal education, and formally educated people in particular
>sees him quote two one-line posts insulting him
>then sees him replying in kind, while also making his case with an in-depth text and an actual attempt at dialogue
> ...goes "muh feelings hurt, why u start insulting man?"
Ever heard of hypocricy?

Also, welcome to the net and 4chan, apparently you just had your first lesson on the customs of the local culture, and how dialogue is handled in this particular area of the ghetto.

Please, let the door hit you on the way out, if you could.

>>7502284
So you agree that college is for conventional faggots?
I mean if one's goals is basically to get a good career and their definition of a good career is a stable job with good pay, it's been stated over and over, even by those within the system(professors and graduates) that pursuing this degree for the sake of getting work is not a good idea. If anything it's the kids who believe and convince themselves that they were born to be engineers when they barely have any idea of what it is they do apart from vague definitions such as, "I want to work with machines" that are deluding themselves to this future that simply isn't there.

>>7502284
>OP says he felt held back by the academic system therefore he is implying that he is the next Einstien"
This is a strawman attack. The academic system holds a lot of people back, whether they are a genius or not is totally irrelevant. The academic system is not flexible and generally doesn't cater to different learning styles. Only recently did it start giving assistance to dyslexic people for example and even today dyslexics are still called dumbasses and a fake disorder. My issue with the academic establishment is that I learn by doing and I found there wasn't a whole lot of that so I left. Not saying I'm better than it, I'm just saying it wasn't for me. Maybe OP is trying to say this even though he did come across as a smug arrogant asshole.

>>7502292
Look, you're the one that claimed to be educated. I simply denounced it. Not taking anything personal, but that's what made you the exception within this thread.

Also:
>4chan
>culture
Only the absolute squares will follow any set theme on this and other sites like it. If you're all about memes great. I couldn't care less and I think it's silly to the idea that one must bow down to these unwritten rules for the sake of so.

>>7502294
Nothing wrong with being conventional. But yes, I do agree actually.

My point merely is that education has and will be the best tried and proven method of guaranteeing a particular set of skills in a potential employee. And that most of you and everyone else thinking themselves geniuses are just dumb, wrong, and gonna find out about it sooner or later.

However, I *will* also admit, that the exceptional few who do make it and by making it I mean make it big, typically don't follow the same rules as everyone else. We are a good way into the era of indie and crowd sourcing, new emerging, extremely disruptive technologies that span well over the borders of IT business and will only continue to do so. So true success is often found in taking those risks and going a different way from the norm.

But *even then*, education is not a crutch. Behind practically all of the latest innovations and super successes, there are educated AND experienced, AND highly gifted and motivated individuals who have worked their ass off and got a whole helluva lot of luck to boot.

>>7502297
Fair point, and I don't disagree.

Formal education, the various the methodologies used in schools around the globe etc are not flawless, far from it. I can say first-hand as a previously average, then top grade student, that the difference between the right and wrong learning methods is no myth.

But there are alternatives. You don't have to go to a Uni, for instance, if you learn better by doing. Many polytechnic schools globally are perfectly comparable, some even superior to universities of respective education paths.

A lot of countries these days do offer a lot of variety for different kinds of students, and different kinds of emphasis on future career choices. It's just that universities still have leftover reputation from decades ago, where anything less was considered secondary and inferior choice.

The modern world puts more value on the practical applications, and actual work experience gained from polytechnic schools than ever before.

what's wrong with unconventional forms of education?

>>7502312
They converted all polytechnics in my country to universities in the early 90s. It's confusing because they still run vocational courses but in degree form. Degrees in CAD and and being a paramedic for instance. I went to a university that was always a university and hated it so I've been reluctant to go to the "polytechnic" even though I want to because they don't look any different to the traditional universities nowadays. What do you think? Will I get the polytechnic experience even though it's listed as a university?

>>7502122
I wish to better understand the workings of the quantum realm and devise a way to harness and utilize antimatter as a source of energy to propel our species to at least a type 1 or type 2 civilization.

>projecting this hard

>>7502337
By your mid 30s you will be tired of writing papers on insignificant shit and jack it all in for a career in finance because your wife is bitching that the bank is gonna take the house soon and her hair needs doing.

>>7502287
>Doesn't apply to engineering or computer science. If some 14 year old built a F16 in his bedroom he built a fucking F16 in his bedroom, his skills are indisputable and Lockheed would hire him. Extreme example but you can see why companies take programmers without formal training because they have a good portfolio that speaks for itself.

kek
nobody is going to hire a kid that built some shit in his garage and put it on his portfolio. that would literally be illegal for him to work as an engineer, you obvious underage twat. computer programmers aren't engineers. they're not even close. they learned a language. That's what they did. People with careers learn languages as hobbies, all of the time.

I'm sorry to burst your delusional bubble, but the only people that I've ever talked to that didn't go to uni and got a job in something STEM related was a fucking javascript kiddie that made like $12 an hour telecommuting and he was GOOD.

I would never hire someone that didn't have a degree unless they were so fucking good that it would be obvious to hire them, which has never happened. They have proven nothing. A graduate proves that they know what they're doing and that they can commit. I don't care that you built a robotic waifu in your garage. Any grad can do that better, and are more reliable and trustworthy to hire.

>>7502075
Opposite for me, when I'm alone I tend to work on niche things I like or am good at. I need the courses to supply deadlines so I can learn in a reasonable time.

>>7502419
this. I easily do my best when I'm in school. It's how we're all raised for all of our young lives so it makes sense.

>>7502266
>exposes he has no clue what it feels like to study something difficult thoroughly and then finally after days or weeks of trial and error finally having that a-ha moment where it all falls into place.

feelsgoodman

>>7502414
haha stay salty, you know that anyone who can build a jet without any formal education has just kicked your ass academically. Of course Lockheed would first send the boy to school before having him work on the latest military planes but to say that they wouldn't scoop his talent is just pure jealousy on your part.
Anyway I don't know why we are arguing about such out-there scenarios. OP certainly doesn't know how to make a jet and he is likely trolling the board but he does have a point that formal education can be somewhat stifling to the top minds. I'm sure you've heard about boys doing worse at school when the general consensus here is that boys are smarter, that is because the school system is geared towards girls. It's little things like that, nothing to do with being a misunderstood genius like OP claims

>>7502443
>build a jet
it doesn't prove that they would be a good employee in any way. also, who are these fucking hypothetical geniuses that are building a fucking jet you dumb fuck? you're the only one putting out these retarded scenarios of these polymath fucking ultra elon musk x1000 dick heads that don't exist.

>>7502454
It points towards them being a good employee.
You're the one getting mad as fuck at a 14 year old jet builder who doesn't even exist. How can anyone be this insecure? I bet you have a picture of Jacob Barnett in your room that you throw darts at

>>7502461
>it points towards them being a good employee
no, it points them towards being a terrible one because they want to do everything themselves even when it's unreasonable, genius.
>muh butt blasted
yeah m8 typing on a keyboard is usually not what mad people do. you actually use that to win an argument, which is lame. it doesn't make any sense.

>>7502443
>>7502461
>being this mad
>being this bad of a troll
>being so confused with your intentions
Go outside, already.

>>7502463
>Building a jet in your backyard means you hate the academic establishment and have no intention of ever attending university
What if I told you that our hypothetical 14 year old never had the money for university and by building the jet got Lockheed to sponsor him and you're still a loser faggot wishing you could so much as change a lightbulb without other people around to pick up your constant slack.

>>7502482
>has no money
>builds a jet
no

>>7502482
Why does he have the money to build a jet, but not to go to school?
If he is somehow able to conjure up this money to build a jet, why doesn't he use his skills to make money to go to school?
If he is so smart, but poor, why doesn't he get scholarships to go to school?

>>7502494
because his hypothetical reasoning to why OP is correct is flawed and he's too stupid to see that.

as if some NEET on a copy of a anime imageboard is going to somehow shake the foundation of society with his retarded idea to how school is dumb.

>>7502487
>>7502494
Well assuming he just made a shitbox painted to look like an F16 that barely flew and with none of the battle capabilities it would be CNC milled turbojet parts plus laser cut plywood frame = a fraction of the cost of tuition. That is how fucked up the US education system is.

>>7502522
or you're smart and have a scholarship

source: me

>>7502099
Anon making totally true statement

This is pretty much /thread/

went to uni and realized this first hand, was able to drop out and get a full refund thankfully

started buying books that teach me what i need to know, and using the internet of course, humans love information and sharing it and the internet let them do that, so much information is crammed in there its crazy

theres even a youtube channel that gives free university lessons, cameras set up in the classrooms, funded by donations