/sci/ - Science & Math

>>7469806
>so many cases I won't even cite one!

>>7469806
Why is being republican directly correlated to being ignorant about science?

>>7469821
No idea anon, but a few years ago I saw a research paper that claimed self-identified republicans had a different proportion of gray/white mater compared to people who didn't. The paper suggested that this meant they had better negotiation based skills but less critical thinking skills. I took it with a grain of salt because of how inherently politicized it was but still would be interesting if true.

Trump is a gold mine of scientific ignorance though.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/265895292191248385

>>7469821
That just comes with being a politician. After all Democrats don't understand basic math.

Here's some more Trump gold.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/517613167359574016
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/507546486553706497

>>7469831
>this

Also i'm so sick of politicians going everywhere to shake hands with popes , immams , whatever santa cult fuckers , and never see researchers , engineers , people who actually move humanity forward ( or at least drive economy with technical discoveries and improvement )

Isn't vaccination technology eventually going to place humans in a precarious position?

If we weaken the species so that they are dependent on medical technology in order to survive and then the flow of that technology were to be disrupted for any number of reasons, then we might find ourselves being far worse off than if we never used vaccinations to begin with and and evolved our immune systems to deal with pathogens naturally.

>>7469842
>any number of reasons
Such as?

>>7469835
They are sure that money actually move humanity forward and people you've listed are just workers.

>>7469845
Economic collapse, devastating war, extreme natural disaster, poorly managed government...

>>7469842
We're not supposed to hobble ourselves by not using technology so we don't get weaker, humanity only got to where it is by use of technology. That's like saying we should kill all our food without using any weapons because, if the spear supply line is disrupted, we won't be able to

>>7469842
The goal with vaccinations is to eradicate these specific diseases (eg. polio).

More Trump because why not.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/416909004984844288

>>7469853
Apples and oranges, mate.

You're talking about skills that can be picked it up in fairly short order if necessary versus biological processes that take, at least, generations to develop.

>>7469853
This. Without technology homo sapiens sapiens wouldn't have been able to survive so far out of Africa. Similarly there are hypothesis that say Neanderthal were unable to adapt quickly enough to the changes in climate and never developed the necessary technology because as it was their bodies were "too well adapted" (eg. who needs a coat when your body is so badass it stays comfortably warm even while naked).

>>7469845
In fact, if the species becomes absolutely dependant on vaccinations in order to live, imagine the power a totalitarian government could weild if they control the source of vaccines.

>>7469842
You overestimate vaccine impact. Many people live nearly without medicine and don't use any drugs if they are not seriously ill

>>7469864
Mate, they've been injecting us with that shit in school for decades now. Maybe lots of people are alive that shouldn't be fucking like rabbits and propagating their shitty genes. Who knows how weak we'll be in a hundred years or so.

>>7469853
Agreed, if our source of clothing materials were to vanish in an instant, the fact we can't make clothes would be the least of our worries. If we ever got to the point where we couldn't make medicine, then that would mean we were at a pretty dangerous point we probably couldn't have recovered from anywhere

>>7469863
Unless the virus is eradicated, which is the entire purpose of vaccination.

In fact, if you wanted to prop up that kind of control then you would want the virus to be present in the environment and you would fund anti-vaccination movements to ensure that.

>>7469863
>In fact, if the species becomes absolutely dependant on ___ in order to live, imagine the power a totalitarian government could weild if they control the source of____.
Replace the blanks with your favourite resource kids! It can be food, electricity, medicine, Internet, plastic, oil, weapons or something completely new! A fun game for all the family!

Wait he's serious? Well that can't be amazing for Science funding innit?

>>7469866
There's some merit to this post but one should also keep in mind that we live in a constantly changing environment and the genes that may be useful in a post-medicine world aren't necessarily the same genes that were useful in a pre-medicine world and vice versa.

As a neat sidenote, one of the hypothesis for white skin and blue eyes is that society (in some parts) developed to the point that these traits were no longer selected against and eventually even became commonplace.

>>7469873
We can survive without any of those things. We can't survive without an effective immune system.

I'm not talking about quality of life, I'm talking about our ability to live it.

>>7469873
Shit. Except food, obviously, but we can eat bugs if we absolutely needed to. Stomach gets stronger when motherfuckers are hungry.

>>7469881
This is a good argument for antibiotics but it's not a good argument for vaccines. It sounds to me like you do not understand how they work or what their intention is.

>>7469872
Which viruses have we eradicated? Haven't there been viruses previously thought to be eradicated that have reemerged?

>>7469886
I understand how vaccines work. That they are deactivated forms of the virus which induce the body to produce the antibodies necessary to fight off the activated form of the virus.

There are other factors present within the immune system than just the antibodies.

>>7469886
It's not a good argument for antibiotics because of the way our body deals with bacterial infections.

Antibiotics are fine as long as they aren't abused to produce resistant bacteria. We're in no danger of becoming dependant as a species on antibiotics.

>>7469887
Rinderpest and Smallpox so far. Many others are in progress. Polio is likely to be the next big one. Also, pic related for a bunch of others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliomyelitis_eradication#Progress_and_set_backs
http://www.unicef.org/pon96/hevaccin.htm

>>7469890
How exactly is it bad if we eradicate a virus through vaccines? Are you saying it would make us weaker to different viruses?

>>7469892
I only meant in the sense that overuse could lead to our immune systems being weak in our environment.

>>7469897
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/04/02/smallpox-declared-eradicated-while-still-alive-and-well-by-viera-scheibner-phd/

>>7469858
You misunderstand how vaccines work.

>>7469906
Sure I do.

>>7469908
Vaccines challenge your immune system in much the same way that normal pathogens do, the only difference being that they don't kill you or paralyse you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f99PcP0aFNE

>>7469858
Vaccines work by introducing an attenuated (that means weakened) version of some pathogen into the body, this then creates an immune response as if you had been infected with the life threatening pathogen. After that, you're immune system "remembers" that particular pathogen and how to fight it.

>>7469821
Being a republican directly correlates to being ignorant about pretty much everything matey

>>7469806
>>7469812
It's Twitter. There's no room for citations.

Anyway, what he said is completely true. People often feel unwell after getting vaccinated. Autism does often develop at the age when kids get a lot of vaccinations. This is where the suspicion of a link came from.

Notice that he doesn't say that there's a causal link.

This is Trump's whole deal. He provokes people to overreact. He's not trying to become president, he's trying to promote himself as a celebrity. It's not remotely possible that he'd be elected or be put up as the GOP candidate. He gets some numbers in the polls simply because some confused people haven't heard of the other candidates but want to give an answer.

Don't participate in signal-boosting him. He's just a distraction, and giving him any kind of attention is helping him.

>>7469821

Except most of the anti-vaxxers are super Democrat Hollywood clowns. Not to mention Democrats soaking up all the inner city illiterates by bribes.

Nice try, but it's simply the case that the majority of everyone is ignorant about science.

>>7470022
>>believing this

you can't recognize a champion in the making.

he's going to win in a landslide. he's the only remotely qualified candidate we've seen in decades.

>>7470132
>implying
lol'd/10

>>7470140
I wonder how many people he pays to post dumb shit like this all over the internet.

>>7470132

Whatever you need to tell yourself.

>>7470132
>most of the anti-vaxxers are super Democrat Hollywood clowns
Donald Trump's candidacy is a conspiracy to shame democrat anti-vaxxers into accepting reality.

>>7470140
>he's the only remotely qualified candidate we've seen in decades
Why?

>>7469887
>eradicated

No such thing. America keeps a copy of every virus, for "defense purposes".

>>7470164
What he means is, everyone else is fully qualified

>>7470140
>remotely qualified

Name one qualification that isn't "born with a silver spoon in his mouth." Don't worry I'll wait.

>>7469806
>electing a reality TV star who has been bankrupt multiple times

Idiocracy was supposed to take place hundreds of years from now, what the fuck

>>7469881
>we can survive without any of those things
>food

>>7470180
A billionaire who had a few out of many other successful ventures go bankrupt who used a television show to make some money and raise his profile.

Not being able to recognize that makes you the idiot.

>>7470204
Did you not see the correction or are you disregarding it? It's right there with the other response.

>>7470209
my mistake

>>7470208
He inherited his money, and has grown his fortune less effectively than would be expected by a typical passive, unskilled investment strategy like splitting it between index funds and bonds.

In other words, he has had a net negative working life.

>>7469806
ebin bait my gentlesir.

trump later on states that we shouldn't be giving babies large one time shots and instead should spread out the shots so the babies immune system can handle it.

>>7470208
>successful
>Donald Trump

>>7470222
Fuck off.

>>7469806
>Trump never said that

>>7470222
>implying any of the other candidates would be any better

Trump is this country's last hope of not being a laughing stock

>>7469830
It's pretty obvious that's not his real twitter account. Basically every celebrity has a bunch of fake ones.

Trump is so refreshingly real.

>>7470247
>Trump is this country's last hope of not being a laughing stock
you realize this is a thread created entirely to make a laughingstock of people like him, right?

>>7470250
it's real
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-times-twitter-attack-women/story?id=32955313

>>7470250
No, @realDonaldTrump is his real one.

>>7470247
>>7470251
I always wonder whether these people are just trolls, or they're getting paid to do this. PR/marketing tactics really do get this dirty. They'll even start discussions with a criticism of the thing to be promoted, and argue both sides to create the appearance of controversy and importance.

The internet makes it possible to hire foreigners to do it for like $20/day. Think of how much even just a thousand man-days of nonstop, singleminded sockpuppeting could accomplish. You can have that for the price of a car. Of course people are doing it.

>>7470247
Are you high? Trump is in the progress of making the US a laughing stock.

he obviously doesn't even care if its true, only that it's getting him votes

>>7470271
>year 2021 of the common era
>still thinking there are actual people posting in comments
>still thinking it's not a massive proxy war between side 1's paid trolls and side 2's paid trolls

>>7470297
Doesn't seem too crazy that machine learning algorithms will soon be able to replace the said paid trolls btw. They are already generating TED talks, with moderate success.

>>7469904
Pseudoscience belongs on >>>/x/

>>7470230
So trump is a doctor now?

>>7469897
I didn't know there was a chicken pox vaccine.

>>7470366
???

>>7470366
>>7470388
oh nevermind i didn't see varicella
well here it is:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/varicella/default.htm

That is big pharma today.

They treat symptoms, and the side effects are treated and then the side effects of the side effects.

That's because big pharma doesn't like to "heal" patients, finding the Real root cause of the disease, treat it appropriately... That's not profitable!
It's better if ppl are chronically ill and them get dependent on this capitalistic system. You see the downward spiral...

Big pharma: externalizing the cost, internalizing the profit. The worse the condition, the more profit. See at all the MS patients, they get drugged up with nerve damaging drugs that costs thousands of dollars instead of finding the root cause of the problem.
Old pharmaceuticals that are cheap as fuck are often 10 times better for the most complicated illnesses.but since they are cheap as fuck why do randomized controlled trials that cost millions to get indication improvements? Better: invent new drugs, fake the trials,
???
PROFIT

>>7470394
*approvements

>>7470394
Are you insane? Big Pharma is dead as we know it.

Immunotherapy replaced small molecule drugs. The means of production are entirely different. New drugs will be made with yeast or tobacco plants, NOT gigantic petrol refineries.

>>7470404
Yeah... In 10 years maybe. Just look at the Psychiatry.

>>7470394
Muh big pharma cunspiracies belongs on >>>/x/

Most ppl there just lack empathic connections, sometimes they have mercury in their mouths, and they get drugged up to the extreme, haloperidol, risperidone, methylphenidate, amphetamines, lorazepam, diazepam, fluphenazine, aripripazol, quietiapine, uppers downers, finding the REAL root cause? Too costly

>>7470222
>inherit 200m
>raise it to 10b
>net negative

smdh you losers live in a fantasy land. Who's the candidate you'd rather support?

>>7470412
X is extraterrestrial I think....

You can't imagine a picture perfectly just by words, you have to see it yourself.

>>7470419
>>7470424
Brace yourself everyone, we've got a live on here!

>>7470394
>>7470412

It's not a conspiracy, it's common knowledge among professionals that "lifestyle" drugs that alleviate the symptoms of chronic illnesses such as arthritis, high cholesterol levels, asthma and psychiatric medication make more money than drugs that actually cure people like antibiotics and antivirals.

http://www.drugs.com/slideshow/top-10-money-making-drugs-of-2012-1034

Not a single drug of the top 10 were actual cures, because once you cure people they won't buy the drug anymore. It's common sense, not MUH CONSPIRACY. Drug companies need to make money, so they spend more resources developing profitable drugs rather than nonprofitable ones. It would be weird if they didn't. There's no evil conspiracy, it's just how the economy works.

>>7470428
Thanks, you see the structure

>>7470428
I would expect that treatment drugs would make more money simply because they are easier to make. This is an irrelevant point though as the poster claimed Pharma was making people sicker or neglecting cures. This is simply silly. A drug does not have to be a top seller to make money, it's simply difficult or just impossible to cure many diseases, which is why we treat them. Its backwards logic to believe it's the other way around, that cures are rare because treatment is plentiful.

>>7470452
You don't know what you're talking about.

>>7470452
One thing those conspiracies always seem to forget is that if companies really were neglecting easy cures in favor of keeping people "addicted" to treatments, surely some other company would still make the cure, to undercut the assholes making the treatment.

>>7470132
>leading Republican presidential candidate is an anti-vaccer
>but... but... it's democrats who believe that!

Sure pal.

>>7470022
>It's Twitter. There's no room for citations.

There are entire websites made for shortlinking so it fits in the 140 character restraints. You can cite your sources on twitter. Go to bed troll.

>>7470457
No, you.

>>7470474
To be fair to that other anon conspiracies can be separated in to three main branches.

>Corporate
These are the ones related to large corporations and some supposed nefarious plot they have. In this category we have things like anti-vaxers, anti-nuclear, anti-GMO and the like.

>Governmental
These are the one's related to large government cover-ups. Here we find global warming denialism, Illuminati and the NWO, and aliens.

>Scientific
This is an interesting one because it overlaps with the others a lot (think 9/11 truthers), here we have conspiracies that relate to "the scientific establishment" and includes: free energy suppression, ancient aliens and global warming.

In general those on the left wing gravitate more to Corporate conspiracies while those on the right gravitate to Governmental conspiracies. Scientific conspiracies can be believed by anyone, but if a certain scientific conspiracy over laps with one of the other branches then you can pretty much guess what side of the spectrum that guy lays on. Not to say that it's always true, as in the present case, but it's a pretty good rule of thumb.

>>7470459

Yes, assuming there are no barriers to entry. Unfortunately in reality drug development (of any kind) is ridiculously expensive. Even if a cure would be relatively cheap to manufacture, just getting FDA clearance would cost billions of dollars and multiple decades, resulting in a relatively unprofitable medicine that would sell like hot cakes for a short while and then nobody would buy it because the disease it was created to cure is now, surprisingly enough, cured.

>>7470508
Yup. They aren't stupid. They do cost-benefit analysis.

They're not going to invest $10 billion in a cure that makes all of their symptom-managing treatments obsolete and guarantees they'll never have another one, and in exchange gives them a product which they can only sell once per customer. You might think they could charge more for a cure than a treatment because it gives a bigger benefit, but the market isn't that globally rational. If they try to sell something at too extreme a markup, that invites interference from government cost control (particularly outside the US, in countries run by governments that openly describe themselves as "socialist" and have policies of forcing drug makers to license their patents to generic manufacturers). A drug that's costly to manufacture means that a standard percentage mark-up produces a large profit in absolute terms.

The market is not as honestly competitive as you might expect. Despite antitrust law, Wall Street has found ways to set up anticompetitive arrangements. The big one is the index fund. Because of index funds, and other diversified portfolios, often the same (large number of) people are holding stock in every major company in a field. They don't benefit from cut-throat competition between their same-industry holdings, and the management knows it.

Without there being any organized conspiracy, alignment of interest results in anticompetitive collusion. It's like the economy's run by a hivemind.

>>7470459
That isn't a conspiracy. That it the truth!!
There is SO much generic drug out there, patents expired since 30 years that help with the most serious conditions. But what they lack is the indication. Of a pharma company wants to bring out a new drug against XYZ it's mostly a new invented drug. Old drugs against alcoholism for example work wonders for a large number of MS patients but since the dose has to be adjusted to 1 tenth the amount to treat alcoholism FDA wants Randomized double blind controlled trials that show significant improvements. and those cost millions. It's unprofitable for the FUCKING company!!! Nobody burns money. Not in the highly structured medical industry of today. Healthy patients don't fucking pay !!!

>>7470459

I had to take IFN - alpha, Ribavirin and the new invented drug Sovaldi to cure my HC virus. One tablet of Sovaldi is worth about 1000$, IFN about 800 a syringe and Ribavirin about 10 dollar a pill. Nothing in contrast to sovaldi.the whole treatment was worth about 100.000$ I had to pay 20 Euro.

Newly invented drugs bring the most money, in my case I was lucky since it wiped out my virus but I suffer the aftermath of IFN. Cognition, balance, strength.... Now I discovered an old drug to treat the IFN aftermath but I had to show my doctor that it will alleviate the symptoms. This drug hasn't got an indication for the hell you experience after Interferon treatments, no company would do large randomized trials. But im
Lucky since my insurance will cover it if my doc notices significant improvement.
if I wouldn't do all the research, doctors would only treat the symptoms, I.e. SSRI, lorazepam etc... But not trying to find the real root cause
Sometimes one has to think outside the box.

>>7470620
>discovered an old drug
which one?

>>7470694
Cannabis

WEED LMAO

>>7469806
Wow, and I would have voted Trump. Still the others aren't any better probably.
This is the problem with politics. Presidents just have fucking opinions. They don't have accurate facts to the best of human scientific knowledge. And this is why the current system is outdated. We should switch to technocracy or something like that.

>>7469806
>realDonaldTrump
This is a fake account.

>>7470722
>Presidents just have fucking opinions.
They don't even have opinions. They believe whatever is politically expedient at the time.

>>7469853
Spears are dead simple to make though all you need is a stick and something to sharpen it with. If you can't find a stick to make a spear with your lack of a spear is probably the least of your worries because you're probably on the moon.

>>7470732
Yeah and that is even worse. But that's where Trump is better, he seems to actually have his own opinions, and isn't a cucked fag who's too afraid to state them.

Given scientific guidance, I'm sure Trump could be one of the best presidents we could have.

>>7470222
Assuming he inherited 200m at age 20 and he has 10b at ~70, he's slightly more than doubled his money every 10 years on average 5 decades straight. That's actually a pretty good run.

>>7470694
No. Naltrexone, weed does nothing to my condition.

Naltrexone in a low dose deactivates the chronic microglia activitiy that gives me flulike symptoms for about 16 months now.
I get my first dose on Friday and I'm 99.8% sure it will alleviate the symptoms.
Autism in some cases has also something to do with chronic active microglia releasing toxins and activating themselves in a vicious cycle. Causing a myriad of symptoms that suck the life out of you I can tell you. It's not depression, I talk about loosing his personallity, having hallucinations, wake up from nightmares covered in sweat 4 times a night, loosing words, being autistic...

But since I'm clever I have a chance to get back to life in the future.
I was bedridden for 18 months now, I'm locked up in a mental institute cause I tried to kill myself multiple times while on IFN. I was a programmer, wrote in C++ DirectX, was a great musician.... And when the ice is cracking below you have to make thoughtfull steps

>7470722
>the best of human scientific knowledge
Illusions. In a political context 'science' is merely an empty, idolized abstraction that can be used to support any agenda you can think of. Science is a normal trade and enough scientists are prostitutes of the mind, no more honest than Jane or Joe Average. They will tell you what you pay for, they always have.

>>7470772
Why are you on /sci/ if you are so against science?

>>7470780
>against science?
Not him, but you do sound like a cult member or ye olde religious people.

>>7470787
You're dumb. Go away autist.

>>7469887
Smallpox. Almost polio.

>>7470772
True. Science is information. Information is a good. You have to pay or do your own researches, thanks to the internet.


The internet is so good.

God I'm losing my mind

>>7470795
It's okay friend, it seems like cults/religions are necessary components of human society.

It is in a sense sad, but something we must acknowledge.

>>7470799
Sometimes things are sad, like solving captcha, I look at my little HTC trying to differentiate between pancakes and I guess ravioli? On 2.0mg Rivotril!

>>7470755
>Assuming he inherited 200m at age 20 and he has 10b at ~70, he's slightly more than doubled his money every 10 years on average 5 decades straight. That's actually a pretty good run.
He really has $4 billion. And $10 billion would be less than you'd expect from putting money in an unmanaged index fund.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-probably-better-investing-donald-233020366.html

His life's work in business has amounted to throwing away half of his inherited wealth compared to the reasonable default of conventional, passive investing.

>>7470764
Sounds like you're back from hell.. I wish you all the best.
If one has the will of a Lion, one does not have the fate of a mouse!

>>7470799
No, honestly I'm not sure what you're talking about. And I'm not really interested in talking about it unless you can more clearly get out your autist thoughts.

>>7470811
Hahahaha yeah, feels like that

>>7470807
It's always easy to say you could have done better in hindsight. Maybe if he didn't go into real estate and just sat back with his money invested in S&P he would have been bored, took up partying and heroin, blown his money on frivolous shit, and OD'd a broke loser 10 years ago.

>>7470807
In our society, it's very easy to turn money into more money. $200 million becomes $10 billion much faster than 50 years. It will take you no more effort than setting up a bank account to cash a paycheck.

People like Trump shuffle money around and act like they're being clever so they don't have to say they're idle rich. But their "work" is more like a destructive tantrum. If you've had idiot bosses, odds are, somewhere at the top, there's someone "actively managing" his inherited fortune so he can pretend to be earning his money, to the great detriment of that fortune's productivity.

>>7470835
That money just sitting in a bank account or stock portfolio isn't going to waste though. Banks use invested money to give out loans, and companies sell shares of stock to raise capital. It's not like it's just a bunch of gold bars under Trump's bed.

>>7470848
In case you weren't paying attention, the point here is that Trump DIDN'T passively put his money to work this way. Instead he had a "business career" (not even in a productive field, but in real estate speculation), which wasted half of the money which society would have served him on a silver platter for doing nothing.

Anyway, it's the capital that does the work (or rather, enables workers to do it, in exchange for a cut), not the lucky bum who inherits it. And investing in real estate is the most despicable way to turn money into more money. It is literally just buying a claim on a piece of nature, within the territory of a state which guards it for you and punishes trespassers, and collecting money from people who want to make use of it. There is no less productive way to turn a profit.

>>7470877
>the money which society would have served him on a silver platter for doing nothing.
Shouldn't you be comparing his profit to other people who did similar things - i.e. compare him to other real estate investors instead of the stock market as a whole.

>>7470895
To continue this line of thought a bit, it actually makes sense that he made less than he would have investing in a stock market index, since stock markets are generally higher risk than real estate and so require a correspondingly greater profit potential for people to want to invest in it.

More risk = higher returns.

>>7470895
That's stupid. Real estate is just an asset class. There aren't "real estate investors" in the same way there are lawyers and musicians.

>>He was a lifelong gambler. He may have won a billion dollars, but he lost two billion!
>But shouldn't you compare his results to other gamblers? Only losing half your money is pretty good for gambler.

>>7470907
Low risk tolerance is for people who can't afford to wait out a temporary setback. Once you have enough money and opportunity to diversify, a competent investor doesn't care about long odds, only good odds. If Trump was one of those people who didn't have large sums of inherited money to fall back on, he wouldn't have been able to recover from his many failures.

He wasn't playing it safe, he was batting for the stands. If he'd had a productive career, he would have beat the passive investment options.

And remember, we're comparing the results of a lifelong, active careeer to straightforward passive investing. In the time span of Trump's career, many people have started from nothing and made many millions of dollars, and some have started from nothing and made billions.

>>7470949
>That's stupid. Real estate is just an asset class. There aren't "real estate investors" in the same way there are lawyers and musicians.
No it's like comparing pharma companies with other pharma companies - to relate that one's performance to that of the industry as a whole. Industries perform differently, and to directly compare one industry with others makes no sense - you have to factor in the known differences to get the complete picture.

Real estate generally is less profitable [in good times] than stocks but if the economy crashes [in bad times] you've still got your land/buildings; you stand to lose less as well.

>>7470949
Also the end of 2014 as that article states is a bit of cherrypicking if I've ever seen one. Pic related.

>>7470968
>No it's like comparing pharma companies with other pharma companies
In the market, you don't decide whether a company's worth investing in based on its likely performance in relation to similar companies, but on the return on investment you expect. If you want to judge a company by other standards, you're looking at it as a productive entity, not as a money-making one.

Nobody believes Trump did any great productive works in his life. The claim is that he made a lot of money through shrewd dealing, when the truth is that he could have just sat on it and watched it grow faster.

An investor is just a person trying to turn their own money into more money. If they're heavily invested in real estate, they're a "real estate investor", but any day they can decide to sell all of their real estate and buy stocks instead, and then they're a "stock market investor", just like that.

Industries don't exist just to make money for investors. They exist to produce products and employ people. That's why there are things like subsidies, and rules about how they can go about making money.

>>7470978
>the end of 2014 as that article states is a bit of cherrypicking if I've ever seen one
Why? A long-term, buy-and-hold passive index fund investor doesn't sell low. The lows around '03 and '10 are irrelevant to someone secure enough to wait for the value to come up. Cherrypicking would be winding back to the '00 peak, or claiming anyone should be psychic enough to buy in '03 and sell in '07.

Anyway, even selling at the '09 low, the worst outcome for a passive index investor, would be just as good as Trump's "life work".

There are people who actively manage large fortunes and multiply them faster than passive investment, or build large fortunes from nothing. Trump accomplished nothing with his life but to make an embarassing spectacle of himself with daddy's money.

>>7471100
wind is retarded though.
you could just do slow-start natural gas generators and use less natural gas rather than doing quick start natural gas generators with wind supplement.

>>7471169
>Industries don't exist just to make money for investors. They exist to produce products and employ people.
I thought they employed people to produce products to make money for investors, rather than the other way around.
Anyway you're I think missing the point, which is that if you want to assess his skill at making deals you would want to look at real estate price trends and compare his performance to that.

>>7471100
He has a point there. Installing enough wind power generation would slow the wind and reduce the convection currents that cool the Earth's surface, and especially its hot places.

The amount you'd need to install might be rather large, however.

Interestingly, though, lately planners have been downrating the number of turbines they can put in a certain place before they start to interfere with each other. The wind is finite, and moreso than previously believed.

>>7471169
>Industries don't exist just to make money for investors. They exist to produce products and employ people.

Go post this on /biz/ and get BTFO, please.

>>7471213
>>Industries don't exist just to make money for investors. They exist to produce products and employ people.
>I thought they employed people to produce products to make money for investors, rather than the other way around.
I said not "just to make money for investors". I left out an "also". Investors are only one of the groups served. Where there are no investors, there is still industry.

>if you want to assess his skill at making deals you would want to look at real estate price trends and compare his performance to that.
If you want to assess his skill at making deals, you should not restrict the range of possible deals he could have made. Among them, an obvious one which everyone knows about and many people take that would have made him twice as much money as every deal he actually made.

If he had set out to build something real and useful, and ended up making less money for himself but made something that improved the world, that would be admirable, but he just set out to make as much money for himself as he could as a shameless rent-seeker, and he flopped.

>>7471237
>All these personal attacks
It's pretty clear you just don't like the guy, and thus really aren't interested in an honest look at whether he in fact has deal-making skills.

>>7471273
>Hurr, he's such a good deal-maker that he took the family fortune and made half of what he could have made on standard passive investments. Why can't you see how great that is?!
You want to see a good deal-maker? Find a guy who started with student loan debt and ended up with hundreds of millions of dollars before he was 40, not a guy who started with hundreds of millions of dollars and being introduced around the good-ole-boys network, then struggled to make the equivalent of collecting a fraction of the compound interest it would have earned as a passive investment.

>>7471313
>you would score way more goals if you played football instead of soccer, hurr why would anyone want to play soccer!

>>7471324
His goal was simply to make as much money for himself as he could. He wasn't playing some kind of deal-making sport where money was beside the point. He thought he could beat the index funds. Other people did. He didn't.

>>7471333
>His goal was simply to make as much money for himself as he could.
How do ju know?
Maybe he just did it because its what his father did and he wanted to keep on the family business?

>>7470132
>anti-vaxxers
I hate this designation. I'm just against specific formulations of vaccines. The ones that usually don't work and actually cause more problems.
Also, making a flu vaccine is retarded unless we can find a way to perfectly predict what strain of the flu is going to take off.

Remember when that study showed that tea partiers are more scientifically literate than democrats. liberals got a surprise tea party

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/ken-shepherd/2013/10/17/study-explodes-lefty-talking-point-tea-partiers-more-scientifically

democrats are dumb, too, especially the black ones

>>7470353
yeh

>>7471386
>r=0.05
yes, that's a statistically significant correlation

but by no stretch of the imagination is it a meaningful one

>>7471452
it is when it shows up consistently across the board

>>7469897
>implying wikipedia is full of facts

>>7471474
>implying Wiki is not full of facts

>>7471482
>implying wikipedia isn't the biggest misinformation hub in the world

>>7471338
>Also, making a flu vaccine is retarded unless we can find a way to perfectly predict what strain of the flu is going to take off.

Not really, the flu vaccine that gets released every year is designed to protect against a few on the deadlier strains. Additions are made periodically, like H5N1 started being protected against in the regular flu vaccine a few years ago when the big outbreak happened. I get a flu vaccine every year since I have upper respiratory problems that put me in a high risk category for developing severe complications from the flu and other illness that would likely end up with me being intubated in the ICU. As much as I don't love receiving vaccines they've done a lot for me and I've had the good fortunate of never being deathly ill in my quarter century of living.

>>7470428
However, you forgot to factor in that different companies want to undercut each other and cannibalize their markets. If a company can create a curative drug, that will be given before a symptom drug, and thus can generate profit where previously another company was getting the money.

>>7471490
>tons of information backed up by sources, or when sources lack it is explicitly stated
>"misinformation"
Retard detected.

>>7471728
>a company can create a curative drug
unsustainable business model
stockholders would stone you

>>7471808
>unsustainable business model
People get that disease.
You cure that disease.
If this weren't sustainable penicillin would not be manufactured, because people would have no reason to.
Hell, if you charge slightly less for the cure than for the treatments you can synergize with moneylenders and build even more profit.

>>7470022
nice slide poster shillary 2016

>>7469806
People like trump make me believe some children were thrown against walls at great speeds when they were born. Maybe the hospital nurse was having a bad day and just decided that the mother who gave birth was too big a bitch to let her antics slide. So in revenge, the nurse threw trump against a wall and laughed. She laughed her fucking ass off.
That is what I believe.

CAN'T STUMP THE TRUMP

>>7471459
A correlation of 0.05 is almost indistinguishable from "no relationship at all". Any other factor leading to scientific literacy is more worthy of attention than this.