/sci/ - Science & Math

>/g/

How much previous math and programing knowledge does one need to become a computer engineer or study pic related?

>>7452184

>>7452184

Why would you post that picture? It has almost nothing to do with what computer science actually is.

>>7452528
for sicp none

>>7452581
that's a joke, right

SICP is notorious for requiring so much domain specific knowledge

>>7452571
I just googled some random pic

>>7452184
Mathfags hate CS for being easier, and engineers for not proving everything
The latter took me a long time of lurking to discover

>>7452835
>engineers for not proving everything
>engineering
>proofs

>>7453941

He's saying the mathematicians hate CS for being easier, and the mathematicians hate engineers for not proving everything. Of course CS proves a lot more than engineering (but less than math).

>>7452835
>engineers for being algorithm monkeys

fixed

>>7452184

Math and CS student here.

Because computer science has more impact than any other stem majors. However, we all know that /sci/ is 90% engineers

>Math majors hate CS because computer scientists earn more money and do more cool stuff.

>Engineers because CS has more math than engineering also more proofs and deep theory, whereas engineering is just compute integrals or solve stwerat's calculus.

>>7454500
That's not what we are but okay

>>7454817
computer scientist is a shitskin

>>7454817

>and do more cool stuff

wat

>Engineers because CS has more math than engineering

wat

>>7454826
Any decent univeristy will have a CS program that's atleast 60% math. (not implying it's more than engineering programs it's just alot)

CS is better payed than most (if not all) engineering programs. So that's why people always shit on it.

Not sure if they actually do more cool stuff, for an outsider CS can look pretty fucking boring.

>>7454817

>>7456745
As an outsider things like AI and cryptography look pretty interesting imo.

>>7452184
Because it's not about computers, and it's not a science.

https://youtu.be/2Op3QLzMgSY?t=20s

>>7456781
There are definitely parts of computer science that are very much science-y, e.g. complexity theory, algorithm design, ...
but yes, it's not about computers, but more about computation, the computer is just an (essential) tool.

>>7456781
I kinda feel bad for this guy. I bet when they made this video he thought "I don't need to get a better haircut. Nobody's going to watch this anyway. The VHS tape will have degraded beyond recognition within 10 years anyway." Now it's on the internet forever.

The label "computer science" is applied to too many different things.

I've taken a CS undergrad course which was really software engineering (in fact, it was more like "how to make your Java less crap").

I'm currently a CS grad student essentially doing pure mathematics (intuitionistic type theory, and all that jazz).

I have CS colleagues who are doing "XYZ, but on a computer", not realising that *everything* is "on a computer" these days, so they're really doing "XYZ" and not CS.

>>7456823
>There are definitely parts of computer science that are very much science-y, e.g. complexity theory, algorithm design, ..

Aren't those areas much more math than science?

>>7457169
I'm under the impression that science (not natural sciences) is gathering of knowledge, so I considered mathematics to be science.

One problem is that CS and CE are used interchangeably. A small local uni like mine only offers one of these. It's named CS, but it was CS 10 years ago, now it's mostly CE.

>hating a useful field for being easy
the only field deserving of hate are liberal arts, women studies,etc..

>>7457183

By that definition isn't almost everything a science?

>>7457201
The fuck? No they aren't, not at all. CE and CS are entirely different tracks at every school I know.

>>7452602
Domain specific knowledge != math

>>7452184
computer science isn't bad, it's just not science, take it to >>>/g/

>>7457884
No.
Engineering for example is not as it uses knowledge to create things, but does not (necessarily) collect knowledge itself (at least not fundamental knowledge).

Pic related says Mathematics and Logic are "Formal Sciences" and that's pretty much what a large part of CS is, the rest is engineering.

Or in other words, theoretical computer science is very much science, or at least maths if you don't consider mathematics to be a science. And thus very relevant to this board.
Applied computer science on the other hand is more akin to engineering.


The reason this board doesn't like CS however, is because everyone here is an elitist and prefers natural sciences or hardcore (pure) mathematics.
Additionally people with an interest in CS can discuss things in other boards (/g/) as well, so maybe not as many frequent /sci/.

>>7458786
history is about gathering knowledge
so is philosophy
I suppose you might perhaps argue history was a social science (it isn't), but philosophy certainly isn't.

>>7458789
I wouldn't consider history to be collecting knowledge, rather facts.
But thinking about it I don't think i can clearly define knowledge..

Philosophy (at least the logical parts of it) are, however, knowledge IMO.

>>7458810
Knowledge and facts are inextricably linked.
I once read a great analogy for what history was which went something like this: history is not the cataloguing, ordering and archiving of facts; the historian lays out all the evidence available to him, newspaper articles, photographs, census records, official documents, etc and tries to find the hidden thread between them, from the known facts he unravels the unknown story.
In this way clearly the historian adds to knowledge, rather than cataloguing the already available facts.
I don't really know that you can say that 'fact creation' and 'adding to knowledge' mean different things, but I'm eager to hear your thoughts on that.

>>7458820
If you consider a historian to be a collector of evidence and arguing for some "theory" from his collected facts, it doesn't sound much different than natural science.

My problem is however that mathematical facts can be (theoretically) truly understood by a person and facts about natural science can be tested and confirmed.
History seems more like elaborate guessing in contrast.

So yes, history is collecting knowledge, but as historical "facts" can't be (mathematically) proven or at least confirmed through experiment, so it's not a science.

>>7458827
scientific facts cannot be proven either. When a scientific fact that posits something about the nature of the universe is confirmed through experiment there is always the epistemological problem that the fact is only consistent with reality, though it isn't necessarily true.
I think history is similar in this regard, a historical theory is only ever going to be consistent with the available evidence or not. It cannot be proven like in logic and mathematics, but those sciences are unusual in this regard and unlike all other fields of human endeavour. Physical theories too can never be proven, only become more or less confirmed through their consistence or inconsistence with reality. If we create some epistemological rule something like 'a theory must predict new evidence and that evidence must be found in order to be confirmed', then we can imagine historians finding by the available evidence, for instance, the location of a tomb or artefact, then finding that and thereby confirming the theory then they are similar to physicists.
You seem to be shifting goalposts a bit, because your original claim was that science was about gathering knowledge, now you seem to be invoking Popperian epistemological rules as the defining feature of science, but they are not universally used in the sciences and are used outside of the sciences too.
There is no defining feature of science, the fields known as sciences are known as such largely due to historical accident.

>>7458838
Yeah, I'm shifting goalposts pretty much, but that's due to the fact that thinking about a defining feature of what is science and what is not is pretty hard and the more I think about it the more unsure I become.

I also thought that scientific facts need to be falsifiable to be considered facts, but then again, historical theories can be falsified in some way, too, I guess, so there's that..

>tfw you will never write a kernel from scratch in 3rd year of CS at cmu
why even bother studying on your own/at other tier 1/2 unis?

>>7452568
But I'm a mathematics student interested in pursuing a PhD in computer science. Am I too dumb aswell? :(

>>7456771
They are! Most people, however, have not even heard of AI (or only in the movies) and the difficulty of cryptography often forms an obstacle.

AI is my favorite field of CS but the field is still lacking in foundation (i.e. what is intellegence?) but is has great potential!

>>7458969
there is this cool paradox (i think?), but i don't remember the name. it states that as soon as a computer can do something its not considered intelligent anymore.
for example: at the beginning of computer science people thought it would be really cool if an AI could play chess really good and as soon as deep blue beat kasparov everyone was like "meh, that's not really intelligence, it just did many calculations".

>>7458985
It wouod be more impressive if it was doing calculations, all it really amounted to was a look up table.

>>7452568
>what is cs-math double major

>>7458985
>paradox
>>7457167

>>7456937
JUST
FUCK
MY
SHIT
UP

90% of CS majors are shitposters on internet forums that attend public universities because either they couldn't get in anywhere else or their middle class family couldn't/wouldn't fork over the money. Now they're salty as fuck and they enter the industry as code monkeys being salty as fuck. Similar problems with engineers actually, except most engineers are actually good at a lot of things, socializing of course not included. Math and physics majors, however, are very much noble in the sense that they go to a university in which they plan to enrich themselves in the fountain of knowledge. They love their field of study, and it shows. They go out and apply to graduate school, teach k-12, and some enter the financial industry. But whatever they do, they do it with a big smile gleaming from cheek to cheek. A smile forged through their childhood and young adulthood as very smart individuals that are as sociable and friendly as they are intelligent. I think that's probably why CS majors are looked down upon, but tbh I'm not so sure.

>computer """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""science""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

>>7459908
someone who spent twice the amount of money they needed to spend at a university to get a job

>>7459908

Some who take all the easiest fucking classes in the math department.

>>7460374

You can graduate in the same amount of time, you just don't have many electives.

>>7460436
If you can graduate within 4 years with 2 majors, you can easily graduate within 3 years with 1 major

>>7452184
Because CS is not a science. There is not much involved in CS that requires the traditional activities of science. Mainly observing a phenomenon, formulating a theory and testing that theory for predictive value.

CS is at best an engineering discipline around symbolic coding.

Bottom line, CS is a term invented to make it sound more than it really is.

>>7460442
you know a lot of people actually enjoy their time in college, not everyone is a shut-in striving to maintain 100% autism 100% of the time

>>7460444
You clearly don't know shit about CS. A fast algorithm for scaling a image can be as rigorous as you want it to be, but generally the CS population doesn't want to be involved in that kind of stuff. However, it doesn't mean that the deep/hard part you guys need to verify it as a science wasn't there.

>>7460451
my experience with cpsci majors

>>7452184
>tfw just changed major to CS from EE

>>7460267
the only jobs around in my are are CS jobs so if you do engineering you are just fucking yourself over with extra classes instead of doing comp sci

>>7460374
Here a major has no added cost (though double majors or major + 2 minors are requirements).

>>7460474
A-are you me?
Although now I'm doing a minor in Comp.E as well and have about a years worth of catching up but totally worth imo.

Pure science majors are butthurt that people doing an easier STEM major will make more money than them.

>>7452184
No idea, it's a perfect complement to Math, which makes people like this >>7452568 seem silly.

>>7460442

Depending on the program/university and how much overlap there is, you'd still be doing 120 credits vs 120 credits either way, so you'd be doing the same amount of shit, but you'd just get less free electives with the double major.

>>7460444

COMPUTER SCIENCE IS SCIENCE:
down vote

Computer Science is the science of computation; that much seems clear. Less clear is how to define science and computation in a useful and meaningful way.

Generally, we might divide science according to two classifications: formal versus empirical, and pure versus applied. Whereas formal science (such as mathematics and much of computer science) relies on deductive reasoning from assumed truths, empirical scienc (such as physics and chemistry) relies on inductive reasoning from observed phenomena. Whereas the goal of pure science is to advance the state of scientific understanding, the goal of applied science is to use such understanding to harness the forces of Nature (in the broadest possible sense of the word) to achieve other goals.

We might define computation as a transformation applied to a piece of information. In the broadest possible sense, computation is, then, any process which causes a change to occur in the universe. There is no need to provide any more detailed definition than this.

Computer Science, then, consists of that part of the human endeavor which satisfies the following criteria:

It is science, that is:

It is either (1) formal or (2) empirical:
employs deductive reasoning from assumed truths
employs inductive reasoning from observed phenomena

It is either (1) pure or (2) applied
seeks to advance the state of scientific understanding
seeks to apply scientific understanding to harness natural forces

It studies computation, that is:
It studies either (1) transformations or (2) information
processes which map information from one form to another
entities subject to transformations

PROVE ME WRONG FAGGOT.

>>7460474
who

>>7460553
I agree actually, but with AP credits it's fairly easy to get past that general credit requirement. I'll actually have surplus of credits by the time I finish all my major requirements. Math major with CS minor btw.

>>7460555
you are an AI robot cleverly disguised as another anon

>>7454822
>the shitskin is afraid and try to spread that fear, probably to his advantage
>the european just face the unknown and do it
Coïncidence ?

not raciste btw ( by the way )

>>7460555
so is there ever a case in which CS is empirical?

>>7460267
>apply to graduate school
>teach k-12

I don't think it's a choice. More like a necessity if your a Math/Physics major.

>>7458751

>math and programming knowledge
>and programming knowledge
>and
>aaannnndddd

>>7460622
No.

It's simple: If you consider Mathematics to be science, Computer Science is as well, if you don't then it's not. (and you're retarded for thinking so, as both are formal sciences).


Also why do most people here think that CS is just programming?
Hint: It is not.

English language is also shit in this case, just translate Computer Science into different languages:
German: Informatik
French: Informatique
Polish: Informatyka
Russian: Инфopмaтикa (Informatika)

>>7458838
Not that anon, but usually scientific discoveries can be used to predict future events, like if an asteroid will hit Earth or how far a stone will fly if I throw it at an angle with a given force.
You could argue that historians can make predictions too, like that there will be a mummy inside a pyramid (yeah it was a pretty dumb example, and it's not even true, but I think you get the point). However, these aren't really about the future, but about events in the past, noone is building pyramids anymore. And if people were building pyramids, it would be social science or whatever, analyzing current events.
All sciences on this >>7458786 image are about finding the underlying mechanisms and making (actual) predictions.

>Not doing a triple major in Physics CS and Mathematics
It is almost as though you don't want to understand the universe properly anon.
For what use are you as a Mathematician if you cannot apply your skills to real problems.
And what use are you as Physicist if you cannot correctly wield the tools provided to you.
What use are you as a computer scientist if you cannot understand the mind of the computer and the reality which it inhabits.
>P.S computer science is the only field which really has 300K starting unless you like the taste the unbridled manhoods of your peers.

>>7460374
>to get a job
>jumping to the industry with only a paltry bachelors
kek

I think the only reason people look down on CS students is that 80% of the time, the course is just programming or IT courses. This isn't really bad except that it makes the 20% who have a rigourous course filled with maths and concepts, put into the same pile. Basically, guy from community college who does an IT or SysAdmin course thinks he's a proper CompSci student compared with one from Edinburgh or Oxford. If your CS course doesn't have extremely abstract maths that tests your understanding of the material given, chances are you're at a shit uni.

>>7463527
Is this only in the US?
I'm in Germany (and I would say not a particularly good uni, although not bad either) and CS guys here have to take one of the following:

- Mathematics 1 - 3 for CS
- Mathematics 1 + 2 for Engineering + Mathematics 3 for CS
- Analysis 1 + 2 + Linear Algebra 1 + 2

Additionally there are quite a few mathematical electives, like Discrete Mathematics, Numerical Analysis 1, Stochastics 1, Number Theory, Ordinary Differential Equations to name just a few.

>>7463542
I'm just talking from my experience with talking to people who go to low level colleges from Britain and Americans I talk to online. Decent courses have a good amount of math electives. Some schools tend to have something like "Maths for Informatics" or "Maths for CS" but at my uni, we had to take pure math courses with the Math students. It's only until we get to Probability With Application and Discrete Maths and Reasoning that we get seperated from them and have Computing Lecturer's take over.

>>7463547
>I think the only reason people look down on CS students is that 80% of the time, the course is just programming or IT courses.

It's just, in Germany people who only learn programming or some basic IT are not called Computer Scientists, that's like calling a bricklayer a civil engineer.

>>7463542
>Discrete Mathematics
>Elective

Why is this an elective? I'm in Canada and we need 2 discrete math courses for CS.

>>7463941
Dunno but I'm assuming there's "enough" discrete mathematics in the mandatory math classes already and this builds on it?

>>7463951

Well what kind of stuff do you do in the elective one? There's some upper year discrete math courses that you could take as electives (ie 4th year math courses that are required for n either math nor CS, but some people take), it's just the 2 lower level ones that are required for both math and cs. I mean you do cover discrete math in the algorithms courses and other CS theory courses as well.

>>7463547
>It's only until we get to Probability With Application and Discrete Maths and Reasoning that we get seperated from them and have Computing Lecturer's take over.
Wait, so you just take Calc with the math students? That's not really taking pure math courses.

>>7463961
No Idea, I'm not talking this class, I just looked up what kind of classes CS guys here do.

>>7463968
>>7463968
I looked it up and there are links to every script and a literature list, but as I said, it's German, the only English books on the literature list are:
Peter J. Cameron,
Combinatorics – topics, techniques, algorithms
, Cambridge 1994
Jacobus Hendricus van Lint, Richard M. Wilson,
A course in combinatorics
, Cambridge 1994
László Lovász,
Combinatorial problems and exercises
, North-Holland 1993

Maybe this gives you an idea?

>>7461177
I'm an amateur learn from home scientist. How the heck am I supposed to learn all of that?

>>7462112
still, double majoring isn't going to directly help you through grad school. My recommendation is gain a depth of knowledge in one field, while also training yourself to be competent in related fields. Math majors should have strong CS skills, and CS majors should have strong math skills, but does this warrant a double major? Definitely not.

>>7461177
>memeing this hard

>>7460374
you don't spend twice the money dumbass it's the same cost

>>7452568
No, when comparing Germany to the USA you have to consider that there are universities, where the education is much more formal and theoretical, the aim is to prepare you for an academic career and then there is the Fachhochschule, where you only program and the aim is to prepare you for the industry. I think they don't have Fachhochschulen in the US, so everyone just goes to college. Informatik at an university in Germany is like mathematics, even the "practical" moduls like database systems or programming are just theory and concepts of mathematics applied.

>struggle badly with math
>but want to graduate with a "good" CS degree

what do

>>7452184
This has been gone over this countless times, check the archives:

>>5662999
>I do not hate CS. CS is an umbrella term for many interesting fields of research. However I do feel utter contempt for CS students. As a mathematically minded person I myself studied CS until realizing that I won't get any intellectual qualifications from studying it. BSc programmes in CS are catering to and attracting the most anti-intellectual scum that barely managed to enter university. The usual CS curriculum is already designed in such a way to teach only a bare minimum of math and theory, hardly going beyond high school knowledge. Yet the average CS student fails it. The same people who are spouting wrong platitudes like "CS is all hard math" are the people who think you're a genius for knowing calculus. The pinnacle of idiocy I encountered in CS was a 6th semester student going for his BSc who did not know what a logarithm is.

>>5982685
>With a CS degree alone without further qualifications you are factually unemployable. Neither the primitive GUI design in java nor the shallow hardware, database or network intro will qualify you for a job. The only people getting acceptable jobs with a CS degree are those who either combined it with another degree or who already had a job before because they self-learned important skills. Quite a few CS students openly told me they are only getting the degree just to have something on paper to force their boss to give them higher salary. The job they already had because they started web design / programming / security in high school. Having demonstrable experience in those is more important to an employer than what you learned in CS. The business monkey variety of retards is even more unemployable. Representatives of local industries explicitly said the degree is trash because these people know neither economics/business nor computing.

>>7465498

>>5981331
>The math and theoretical CS are even more laughable. The only people who complain about their hardness are those stereotypical video game retards who already failed their math classes in high school. All the "muh logical quantifiers", "let's mindlessly apply this symbolic manipulation algorithm", "oh wow, an automaton represents a language" or "holy shit, how do I show this algorithm does what it does" babby crap is shallow and hardly deserves to be called university level. A mathematician or a physicsist who is trained in reading definitions, theorems and proofs can pick up all of a BSc computer scientist's theoretical CS much more indepth by spending one or two afternoons of reading a book.

>>5981333
>The worst thing however are the people going for such a degree. Out of all degrees CS seems to attract the most anti-intellectual scum. I seriously wonder how these people even managed to enter university. Every retard who barely passed high school and spends most of his day playing video games seems to think the must study CS. There are socially inept neckbeards of the retarded variety, hating and repeatedly failing math as well as the most simple programming assignments. There are dumbasses whose high school diploma was too bad to go for an economics degree, hence why they want to enter the business monkey route of CS in the hope of getting a little more than minimum salary. Those are of such subhuman IQ that they do not even understand the semantics of an implication in propositional logic.

>>7465393
Of coarse they don't have Fachhochschulen in the US.

What the fucking shit is Fachhochschulen I feel like I need to wear laderhosen just to say that shit.

>>7452184
Because it's become a joke in academia, where profs are more concerned with topics like how to fund your startup, how to SSH into servers and use Eclipse, and other bullshit topics like that.

Computer science is fucking beautiful when viewed through a theoretical lens. If topics like Turing machines were studied more, perhaps we could finally get off this fucking von Neumann architecture, instead of CS grads geeking out about GitHub and Angular.js.

>>7452528
Literally none. You're expected to be able to think mathematically, but that's about it. It describes the language the book uses (MIT Scheme) from the ground up, along with its implications.

>>7465498
You seem like a dude i would never fucking talk too.

Honestly I had always wanted to go into computer science, but after finding 4chan and subsequently /sci/ in year 12, I changed my uni preferences and went with electrical engineering. At this point I really don't know which option was better. Anyone else in the same boat? I wish I hadn't blindly followed /sci/'s opinion though.

>>7465536
>i

>>7465515
It's something like a university only more focused on "practical" (i.e. industry) skills than academic/theoretical skills.
If you want to become a scientist, you go to a Universität, if you want to become an engineer to a Fachhochschule.

>hard time with math
>trying to pursue a CS/CIS degree
>end goal to become a Software Engineer

how much studying and self learning should I be doing with math and learning java etc etc

>>7465498
>>7465501

What do you study and where do you study?

>>7460481
Yeah same here I need to catch up on a few languages. Im pretty happy with my decision. Wish my school offered a CE minor I'd totally do that too

>>7465493
Fake it till you make it

Straight repettion will help you

>>7452528
SICP is pretty god tier. It helps to know high school algebra and to have a rock hard dick.

i switched from compsci to computer engineering. my experience in compsci was that 99% of people wanted to "make video games" or "work at google and make $$$$$$$$", there were very few people who were actually interested in the study of computation

What's actually more math heavy, though? EE, CS or CE?

>>7467358

EE by far, then CS, then CE

>>7460374
are you lost?

>>7465547
>>7465498

>>7452568
Computer Science is math. I believe you are confusing it with software engineering, which is what most degrees that are called CS have become.

>>7461177
>CS and Physics demigod reporting

I switched to math because it didn't require as many credits and the courses weren't plagued with prerequisites.

Still minoring in CS.

>>7466142

It's copypasta bait. Have you never seen it before?

A lot of undergrad CS programs are basically money-mills for universities who churn out mediocre programmers to be thrown into industry.

>>7467779
If they don't use a member of the lisp family or a member of the ML family in their main undergrad program, it's a good sign they are this sort of money-mill.

>>7467888
An absolute load of shit, but whatever my man.

>>7467901
Which fallacy did you just engage in? Affirming the consequent or denying the antecedent?

>>7467925
fuken ur mum

>>7467888
>>7467901
While I wouldn't say it's a money-mill, I would definitely agree that they aren't really teaching CS, but rather preparing students for a career in software engineering.

>>7468462
What's wrong with that? I want to work for a living

>>7468669
You are on /sci/, people here want to learn for the sake of learning and understanding things, making a living is secondary.

>>7467947
That's not a fallacy, it's just disgusting.

>>7465498
>The pinnacle of idiocy I encountered in CS was a 6th semester student going for his BSc who did not know what a logarithm is
Shit, I just realised, I'm a maths undergrad and I can't define what a logarithm is in words (although I could easily define it with an equation or two).

>>7465545
>subsequently /sci/ in year 12
Underage? Or resat a year?

what are some good books to study? is pic related still relevant today?

>>7469803
I mean good books to go along with SICP

>>7468979
The power you raise a number to to get another number

I studied pure mathematics and CS on the side. Now I'm aiming to complete a PhD in CS.

There are many areas of pure math that cross over into CS including graph theory, combinatorics, logic (like recursion theory, proof theory, category theory, etc), computational complexity and algorithm analysis.

In fact, it'd be better if you majored in math if you plan to study theoretical CS.

>>7468979
The logarithm(base b) of a number x, is the power you have to raise b to to get x

ignoring oxbridge and imperial, what are the best unis for cs in the uk?
i dont really trust these online rankings.

>>7468979
It's like the number of terms it takes to write a number down bro.

>>7469807
SICP is an introductory computer science book. It is very good about its subject, covering different kinds of programming, basic structures like closures and streams, evaluators, simulators, and compilers. The scope is really kind of breathtaking.

But it is not a book that teaches you how to solve problems with computers. For that you should probably study How to Design Programs.

http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/HtDP2e/

>>7452568
wow great argument fagtron you really convinced me with those hot opinions

>>7454817
>requires more math
I'll take Electrical and Nuclear Engineering for 500 Alex!

>>7458985
Yeah, intelligence is a pretty grey concept. I think it's just because people don't like the idea of intelligent machines. Perhaps they are scared of Skynet?

I thought it was because most people are engineers here

>>7467661
>It's copypasta bait

It's a literary construct called a "quotation". Didn't you see the links to the original posts or are you incapable of figuring out how to use the archives as a CS major

>>7469803
http://4chan-science.wikia.com/wiki/Computer_Science_and_Engineering

>>7458985
Yeah, it's a bit like that. However systems that play chess really well aren't considered "intelligent". They're just considered very good at searching.

>>7452184
Because computational universe is endless and they are envious.
Seriously, they just all use computers and software to do their work and they fear infrastructure that they do not understand completely.

>>7452528
Where do you find the SICP for $10? I could buy it for about $40 but not for $10. I plan on buying it eventually, and if I can find it for $10, I'll buy it this weekend.

>>7463527
Some classes are programming, but then again, what sort of CS major would it be if you didn't learn at least one programing language. Even pure researchers need to know how to program. As for IT, that would be learning how to fix computers and troubleshoot applications. Not even close.

My classes at my university have been programing concepts, mathematics, and physics classes.

Is CS a hard major? Im not particularly good at math but i think CS sounds super cool. Im a freshman

>>7473479
is an artistic logic fest the best algorithm wins

>>7473479
You don't have to be that smart to develop valuble programming skills but if you can't into maths you'll forever be mediocre. If you can make the commitment to work hard on both math and coding as a skill go for it but if not you may want to find something else.