/sci/ - Science & Math

> isis anchatee

How good is she?
Also
>being mad having dollar bills thrown at her
I would like some cash, that does ok.

>>7445358
aloha snackbar.

SNACKBAAAAARR!!
*monotheistic hymns in the background*
SNACKBAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!

Ugh. "self-taught engineer"

And of course, she works in software, where having a job doesn't even suggest the likelihood of competence.

No context at all for the dollar bills being thrown at her, and what would make this particularly offensive and beyond the usual razzing techies give each other to keep egos in check.

>right-clicking ” ‘view source’ on Neopets and reverse-engineering bits of code
That's cute and all, but is on the level of figuring out how to use a phone book. It's a pretty standard thing for a kid with internet access to learn some HTML.

She sounds easily impressed with herself, used to being lavishly praised for things that are really not impressive, and quick to take offense when anyone who has to work with her points out just how limited her skills actually are.

No, honey, that is not what an engineer looks like. "Engineer" is a protected title. You can't be a "self-taught engineer" any more than you can be a "self-taught doctor".

>>7445357
What state is this? In non-retarded states you can be prosecuted.

Both calling yourself an engineer without a license and calling none-engineering work engineering is grounds for prosecution.

http://sce.uhcl.edu/helm/SWEBOK_IEEE/papers/10%20reprint%205.pdf

>>7445357
>"help" build
Everybody needs drinks

>software engineer
>real engineer
I mean there are software engineers that are amazing, but you can spend 48 hours on code academy and "build software" the next day

>>7445357
>software "engineer"
>not even white
>related to ISIS
>disgusting attentionwhoring

>>7445357
>Industrial Engineering Technician
>"I enjoy long walks on the beach and discussing theoretical physics :-)"
Is this a cringe thread now?

Can't any of you guys accept that maybe women have trouble in STEM fields due to the 'boys' club' culture? I mean from reading all the openly misogynist shitposts on websites like these from people professing to be in STEM, and always taking it for granted that women are lying and/or are useless, anyone could deduce that there might be something to all the feminist whining.

>>7445471
No, there is nor "boys' club" culture in any real engineering environment. Engineers value productive and cooperative people, regardless of gender, race, hair color, fashion style, etc. What we don't like is people who think they deserve special recognition just because they're a part of some minority, or who blame their mistakes and shortcomings on an "oppresive culture" when really, they just suck.
Most women I've worked with don't fall into either category, but those that do are extremely toxic to a workplace.

>>7445471
>Can't any of you guys accept that maybe women have trouble in STEM fields due to the 'boys' club' culture?

There's is no boys club, it's complete bullshit, there are thousands if not millions of highly successful female engineers reaching the very top of industry to become managers, CEOs etc.

Things like this muslim bitch are an insult to those hard working, REAL female engineers. Like all neofeminism crap this isn't about equality, this is about losers who want more benefits, money and promotions without having to work for it. Because why would you need to actually better yourself if you can just yell patriarchy and get promoted above meritocratically deserving people?

>>7445471
>Can't any of you guys accept that maybe women have trouble in STEM fields due to the 'boys' club' culture?
Does it occur to you that men and women always have trouble getting along in every field, and that so do men and men, and women and women?

If these STEM women are so capable, and so oppressed by men, why don't they get together and start their own all-women companies that do amazing things in competion with the male-dominated companies?

It's almost like the kinds of accomplishments they claim are of the "being on the team" sort, of being associated with success, and not being drivers of success.

The differences between the brains of women and men are similar qualitatively and quantitatively to the differences between the rest of the body. Not just smaller, not just with proportionately less performance-related material, but made of material that's less dense, powerful, and capable of endurance per unit. Why on Earth wouldn't they be? The brain is an energy-hungry organ, and there's an obvious theme of performance vs. economy in human sex differences.

STEM, like sports, is competitive with a high performance ceiling. However, unlike sports, it's not just for fun. So we're not going to have women's leagues, where they don't have to compete with men. Without separate women's competitions, there would be virtually no women athletes considered better than mediocre. It's the same in STEM.

The feminists are bitching about mediocre workers in competitive fields being treated as the mediocre, low-value assets they are, and a completely normal level of interpersonal friction, as if these are some kind of patriarchal conspiracy holding women down.

Is this the new ''girls can be gamers too'' shit they're going for now?

>>7445524
>why don't they get together and start their own all-women companies that do amazing things in competion [sic] with the male-dominated companies?

They did and this was the result:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1168182/Catfights-handbags-tears-toilets-When-producer-launched-women-TV-company-thought-shed-kissed-goodbye-conflict-.html

>>7445538
>Her business was ruined by the destructive jealousy and in-fighting of an all-female staff


They literally tore themselves apart holy shit. This must be what IBM is going for with their new anti white male initiatives.

I'd put my dick inside her

>>7445546
What? I never heard anything about that.

Care to elaborate? Honestly curious (and in fear...)

she looks like skye from agents of shield
>both are half asian
aah makes sense.

>>7445429
this

most good looking girls in software engineering are incompetent as fuck. Their main asset - their looks get majority of things done for them - by drooling nerds, trying to flirt when "explaining" how to correctly close that db connection.

Guy in that scenario would be ridiculed and dismissed.

pic related:
my team is great
>for doing 95% job for me
everyone is
smart,
>for explaining me things I should know
creative
>for figuring out solutions for me
and hilarious!
>my project manager is so hilarious! we love spending hours chatting in his office!

>>7445357
>Can a self taught woman call herself an engineer?
its not hard to learn to suck cocks

>self taught
>engineer
Lel

>>7445647
I suppose someone had to post it.

>>7445641
How is that pic misogynistic as that one commenter implies?

So you're telling me I can get the title of engineer if I know how to use Javascript?

>>7445647
you would know :^)

>>7445637
IBM set aside 300m to "increase diversity" in their company because they say they have too many whites.

This is despite the fact that whites are already UNDER represented in the company relative to the population at just over 50% (much lower compared the actual population of whites if they wanted a fair quota at 72%).


Basically the left agenda wants to turn all successful companies into this:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/mar/26/metro-derailed-by-culture-of-complacence-incompete/?page=all

Seriously, I've actually had people tell me to my face "well it's good because at least it's not white". I feel so sorry for the white women still working in that company.

>>7447120
I meant Intel sorry.

http://www.amren.com/news/2015/08/intel-ups-referral-bonus-to-achieve-more-diversity-in-its-workforce/

>Intel is offering its employees bonuses of up to $4,000 if they refer women, minorities or veterans to the company's workforce; doubling the current reward in a hope to make the company less white and male.

>At the end of 2014, Intel had 54,000 employees, over 75% of whom were male.
>56% of workers were white (so whites are actually underrepresented, but they have to be even more underrepresented before the SJW's are happy, it seems).
>8% were Latino
>3.5% were black.

>Intel is investing $300,000,000 to support workplace diversity.

What I find interesting about this is that if one particular minority is under represented, the solution is always: less white males. It does not matter if whites are under-represented already.

I don't hire women because they all have massive egos from numerous beta males white knighting for them.

They also ruin team dynamics by making men less cooperative and more competitive.

>>7445357
This can't be right, I know from all those /sci/ posts that only people that have gone through an accredited engineering programme can use the title of engineer, because muh Washington accord.

>>7447146
>>7445449

>>7445357
Boy these engineers sure are providing us with wonderful webtools courtesy of twitter.

http://alisharamos.com/ilooklikeanengineer/

Boy these engineers sure are providing us with wonderful webtools. Remember to break the horrible gender stereotypes of engineers by sharing the inspiring images you made at http://alisharamos.com/ilooklikeanengineer/

>>7447178

>>7445357
>>7445641

Why are they both named Isis???!?!?

>>7445357
>self-taught engineer, extreme introvert, science-nerd, anime-lover, college dropout
Stopped reading there. That's not an engineer.

>>7445357
this is why I refer to those bloody terrorists as "ISIL". "ISIS" is already the name of so many other people and things.

She doesn't look like a lesbian, so she likes the D. Engineers also like the D. I see no problem here.

>>7449425
She probably posts here tbh

Why don't women create their own Silicon Valley if the current one discriminates too much?

>>7445357
i really want to stick my dick into her engineering degree

>>7449721

Have I got news for you!

>>7445357

>I look like an engineer

Well of course people would think she'd suck dick.

>>7445667
>How is that pic misogynistic as that one commenter implies?
"muh sex object"
Any attractive woman is a tool/victim of the patriarchy and must be disfigured for her own good, and the good of womyn everywhere.

>>7445429
Exactly my thoughts.

I get it, girls reject you so you make yourself feel better by saying "at least I'm smarter than you" so when a female in STEM comes along your charade all falls apart and you try to claw it back together by claiming she's actually bad at her job when you know nothing about her and never worked with her.

>>7449755
Anon meets an asian:
>MAH PENIS
Anon meets a black guy
>MAH INTELLIGENCE
Anon meets a girl in STEM:
>h-hi

>>7445357
Isn't that a bit like calling yourself self-taught doctor?

I'm no lawyer, but I'm fairly sure quackery is illegal to some extent.

>>7445357
Wait, what does building software have to do with engineering? Obviously engineers might use software but making software isn't engineering, unless I don't understand engineering.

>>7449778
Technically, software engineering is a thing now, but I can almost guarantee that whatever she does is not software engineering

Here's what the PE exam for software engineering covers:
https://cdn.ncees.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/SWE-Apr-2013.pdf

>>7449755
>when you know nothing about her
We know that she isn't an engineer but likes to make people think she is.

>Can a self taught woman call herself an engineer?

Technically a self taught person male or female can call themselves anything.

The question lies in who will recognize your status as a such. Legitimacy usually comes from recognition of the majority of society, private enterprise, official organizations and/or a ruling government.

Though in this situation the core problem comes not from recognition but more from the fact that she has basically every trait and talent of a programmer but instead calls herself an engineer.

Maybe she did indeed face harsh sexism but from where I stand my issue with her and the article comes from that. I mean can a chemist (who hasn't got a phd) call themselves a doctor just because there is some subject crossover between chemistry and medicine?

Surely the chemist could be brought on as a medical analyst or researcher but they are not a practicing doctor.

>>7449833
>Technically a self taught person male or female can call themselves anything.
No. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Regulation_and_licensure_in_engineering&redirect=no

>>7449002
...its the same person.

>>7449871
>tfw American
>tfw only Professional Engineer is protected
>tfw sanitation engineer picks up my trash every week

>>7449917
>sanitation engineer
top kek

>>7447120
>http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/mar/26/metro-derailed-by-culture-of-complacence-incompete/?page=all
blacks are racist? who'd have thunk it?

>>7445357
Don't you find it funny that people actually care enough to "fight" against the notion that all engineers are nerdy guys?

She's a hot girl, I'm sure she faces a lot of problems with discrimination.

>>7449922
Minorities cannot be racist, by definition, you bigot shitlord. As a result literally the only people who can ever be racist are white people, and since all racism ever only comes from whites (at least in the anglosphere) whites are clearly the worst race and should be wiped out. It isn't racist for me to say this because as a Zoroastrian asexual PoC I am by definition not privileged and therefore incapable of being racist. It doesn't matter if I'm discriminating on the basis of race, I am incapable of racism because of the feminist definitions I choose to subscribe to and take for granted as fact, and if you don't agree with me that they're fact you're a misogynist patriarch.

>>7449871

Anon please into reading comprehension.

> The question lies in who will recognize your status as a such. Legitimacy usually comes from recognition of the majority of society, private enterprise, official organizations and/or a ruling government.

All you had to do was read the next couple of sentences below where I pointed out the need for legitimacy.

>>7445471
Funny, because all successful women in STEM aren't crying about anything, because they're occupied with their work and can do their job. They like it how it is. Also, they make good money. The only ones crying are the incompetent mentally ill who want a piece of the cake by doing nothing. Extremely toxic and dangerous, avoid at all costs.

None of them are engineers. They are all software developers with a fancy title.

>>7445357
>I look like an engineer
Maybe, but you're not one.

Why do companies bother with these efforts to recruit more women and underrepresented minorities into the work force? Do they really think it will result more profits from the positive PR, considering how much productivity will be lost by female and black/hispanic incompetence?

>>7449981
blacks are the majority in that case

>having dollar bills thrown at her
ROFL

She looks like she could be an engineer, but she doesn't sound like one.

>>7445357
>http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/08/04/what-one-engineer-did-when-she-got-tired-of-sexism-at-work-like-having-dollar-bills-thrown-at-her/

>self-taught engineer

That's the only I read, and engineer WITHOUT engineer title IS NOT AN ENGINEER.

>>7450239

It's about the economy stupid, women make up half the population. It would be retarded at this point to ignore them. With "minorities" the fact is their numbers are growing and whether you like it or not any growing population has spending power potential and to maximize that potential you train and hire them so the economy continues to grow.

Besides computers are basically doing most of the heavy lifting, at this point you're just asking someone to watch over it and make needed adjustments.

>>7445357
>itt: fags argue about girls in engineering while they get their jobs outsourced to india.

>>7445471

>>7451047
>>7451032

LEL!

>>7445481
This. There's a reason the upper level classes are much smaller than the first year classes. You either make it or you don't. If you want to whine and cry about being a minority, no one cares. As long as you're competent then you'll make it and be recognized.

My class was about 1/3 women, and we even had a women's engineering club. The only ever complaint I heard from woman engineer is that their dates with men engineers always turn into engineering discussions instead of dates.

>>7445481
>What we don't like is people who think they deserve special recognition just because they're a part of some minority, or who blame their mistakes and shortcomings on an "oppresive culture" when really, they just suck.

This is true, I had watch female crying when they fail a subject, real and hard world problems needs people who can solved them.

>>7445481
I was a math major. Freshman year there were maybe 1/3 of the math majors were female, by senior year it was much less. They didn't drop math because of misogyny, they dropped it because being a journalism major was easier. Any time people made study groups, they went out of their way to try and include women. And female "nerds" don't face anywhere near the stigma male nerds do. If anything STEM is more welcoming to women, they just don't want to do it. My school had a program to help women in STEM. They didn't have one for minorities, despite the fact that blacks were far less represented (I'd have a class with 20-30 people in it and maybe one black guy), black kids growing up in an inner city faced actual issues, and people weren't going out of their way to help the black students the way they went out of their way to help women. Which I find interesting, they claim they're all about diversity but at the end of the day all they really care about is women.

>>7445429
This reminds me of those old men going "I went to war for this"?
Because you see, I look at my father, engineer, degree from "La sapienza" Rome's university back when its teachers where the cream of architecture, they taught them how to learn, anything, with what they were given they could go in any field, be it building bridges, golf courses, cars, boats, software, hardware.

Nowadays, there is the short degree, a billion specializations and then there's people like..this, self taught engineer who bring shame to the class.

>>7451171
>You either make it or you don't.
When my father went, first year, students in the in the thousands, first year passes and it was in the hundreds.

>>7451171
>I heard from woman engineer is that their dates with men engineers always turn into engineering discussions instead of date
i never understood why they would complain about that

>a self taught, art school dropout who eats #javascript for breakfast
>engineer

>>7450261
As if minorities will stop enjoying "minority" privileges once they're actually the majority.

>>7445357
>I'm a gurl and an engineer.
You can attention whore to that resume.

>>7451363
Guys complaints about that too. It's typical of idiots who only do it for money and prestige.

Also >>7451171 used the word "engineer", but I'm pretty sure he meant "engineering student".

>>7445429
But code monkeys have been stealing the title of "engineer" for decades.

>>7445357
>Can a self taught woman call herself an engineer?
She could, be she seems to be a website designer to me. It's like calling rubbish men and women (kek) "waste management engineers", or whatever it is.
If somebody was to teach themselves actual engineering, and was then employed as an engineer, then sure they could call themselves that.

>>7451937
Depends on the state. It seems you can get away with it in California, but you couldn't do that legally in Texas without a license (outside of your workplace, anyway)

>>7451927
Are you sure you aren't confused? Because a lot of programmers are engineers.

>>7451963
When a person says they're a software engineer doesn't that just mean that they're a programmer?

Do you think that they have a M.Eng or a B.Eng degree?

>>7445357
shes purty
rawr

>>7445357
If people are condescending to you, starting a I'm-totally-not-butthurt social media movement (rather than say, working hard on real things) only makes you look butthurt, like you really are shitty and you can't defend your ability so instead you go post on twitter. Perform well and all condescenders are proven wrong.

>>7451963
yeah

I don't consider web development to be engineering, and neither should you

>>7451970
I would certainly assume that a junior "software engineer" position would require at least an engineering degree, and a senior one would require professional engineering certification.

She's hot as fuck.
I'd throw dollar bills at her too if I was working with her.

>>7451980
There's web development and web development. It can be anything from, "Look, I learned HTML" to shit like Google web search or Wolfram Alpha.

>>7451987
and I don't consider either to be engineering. The latter is difficult sure, but algorithms and shit != engineering. I would consider that to be more of a math & programming thing...

>"Design this bridge/hardware/airplane"
is an engineering problem
>"Hey how do I make the column align itself with these 3 rows when I make the window smaller?"
is not an engineering problem.

And yeah it might just be my biases or whatever but when I see these "self taught software engineers" I just _know_ that's the kind of shit they're working on

>>7451998
>>"Hey how do I make the column align itself with these 3 rows when I make the window smaller?"
>is not an engineering problem.
This is true, but it's also on the "Look, I learned HTML" level. You're not making any case for your position.

Not sure whether you're a tedious, unfunny, and stupid troll, or just stupid. Whether you're trolling or not doesn't make a difference to the level of stupidity, it's just a matter of what variety of stupidity you're bringing.
>>"Use paper and a pen to design this bridge/hardware/airplane"
>is an engineering problem
>>"Write a program that designs this bridge/hardware/airplane"
>is not an engineering problem.

>>7451287
So you know why these people chubby majors? Had to be because it was too hard? I've never heard of people changing majors for other reason. And I see you are well informed on what female nerds go through, seems like a very accurate characterization. Well in stem women are minorities in most fields, but clearly they should be helping racial minorities too. That's more a problem with your school than with the worm in the program.

>>7452037
*change majors

>>7445546
>>7445538
tbf, I read the thing, she was terrible leader. she would have had the same problems with guys.
though they probably wouldnt work for her.

>>7445357
>bla bla engineer
>I enjoy [...] discussing theoretical physics
As if an engineering would know how.

>>7445546
>>7445546
>This must be what IBM is going for with their new anti white male initiatives.
How does this even follow?

>>7451982
What engineering degree?

"Oh yeah spend 4 years learning mechanics, ODEs and PDEs, fluid mechanics, thermodynamics and solid works now spend your career writing C++, Java and JavaScript."
No , that isn't how it works.

People who call themselves software engineers have either done a degree in computer science or more often just learnt on the job/in their spare time.

You have a bizarre view of reality if you think software engineers all have M.Eng or B.Eng qualifications. They're just programmers who have co-opted the use of a word that makes their job title sound more impressive.

What this girl has done by calling herself a "full stack engineer" is no different from what vast swathes of people who do programming as their job have done.

>>7452035
>>>"Write a program that designs this bridge/hardware/airplane"
>>is not an engineering problem.
It's not, but it is going to take an engineer or the help of an engineer to solve it.

If you're going to claim software development and algorithm design is an engineering field you're going to have to say mathematics is a field of engineering. Same with audio engineering, sanitation engineering, and social engineering

>>7452152
also in software development some companies don't care about the degree, they only care about experience until its an specific job that requires knowledge of a certain domain of STEM, for example she wont be able to design an industrial controller in her HTML/Rails life.

She's pretty cute. I'd let her optimize my codebase.

>>7449739

Yep, I'm so glad that these people are finally getting told to fuck off by the normies. Too many years of pushing their agenda little by little. Eventually, you step on someone's toes who isn't going to tolerate your bullshit.

>>7445357

>enterprise software
>iMac in background

topkek

>>7452505
>I'd let her put pink on my CCS
that's what I read.

>>7451032
prolog never lies.

>>7452037
I know that it wasn't because of misogyny because they didn't face misogyny. Speculating that somebody switching from a hard major to a soft one with shit job prospects did it because they couldn't hack it.

>And I see you are well informed on what female nerds go through
Well I'm not a complete retard so... yes. It's not that hard to figure out. I don't think you can seriously argue that the stigma female nerds face is even close to what male nerds face. Men don't reject a woman because she's too nerdy. Social lives are still easy to come by for female nerds, because society doesn't reject women for their nerdy hobbies like it does men.

>>7445471
>all the openly misogynist shitposts on websites like these from people professing to be in STEM, and always taking it for granted that women are lying and/or are useless, anyone could deduce that there might be something to all the feminist whining

No, I know better than to use handfuls of shit posts to make a claim about an entire field of study. You should know better too.

>>7445357
Wait so is this just like the attention whoring that happened after the Tim Hunt thing?

>>7451363
Because female engineers, just like the males, are hoping to score some dick that night rather than talk about pipes.

>>7452152
>What engineering degree?
Do you actually not understand that universities have software engineering programs? Did you think that where they don't, computer engineering and electrical engineering programs don't offer any courses in software?

>"Oh yeah spend 4 years learning mechanics, ODEs and PDEs, fluid mechanics, thermodynamics and solid works now spend your career writing C++, Java and JavaScript."
>No , that isn't how it works.
Oh my god, you have no idea of what life after graduation is like. It's very common for people with engineering degrees to end up writing software, and it's also very common for engineers who end up working in the specific field of their education to never, or almost never, use any of the fancy math or physics they sweated over in school.

Most engineering jobs aren't independently creative, clean-sheet design jobs. The mass of engineers are given training in the methods used for this work not so they can do it, but so they can understand what the guys who do it are talking about (who, incidentally, are not necessarily going to be engineers themselves, at least on paper). A lot of engineering work is being the guy who understands the instructions well enough to supervise the people who have to follow them. Most of it is similarly unromantic chore-handling.

>>7453863
Yes, and just like Tim Hunt where it wasn't real scientists, now it's a bunch of code monkeys who aren't real engineers.

It's not like retards who have enough time to SJW lynch mob on twitter are actually successful human beings. At least no one is getting harmed in this case.


>>7453942
Software engineering isn't programming, they learn actual science and engineering and are mostly concerned with hardware interfacing controllers, transmitters etc., not coding on a general purpose computer.

http://sce.uhcl.edu/helm/SWEBOK_IEEE/papers/10%20reprint%205.pdf
>Calling Software Development Software Engineering
>Unless these activities also include the design of hardware interfaces, power systems, or other engineered components, they do not appear to meet the legal definition of engineering practices.
>It might be more accurately described as "code writing", "product support" or other tasks that the board doesn't regulate.
>...if the practitioner is calling the activity software engineering, he or she is violating the law.

>It's very common for people with engineering degrees to end up writing software,
No it's not, no one pays an engineer to do code monkey work you could get someone on a 30k per year salary to do, engineering programming is very different from code monkey programming.

>and it's also very common for engineers who end up working in the specific field of their education to never, or almost never, use any of the fancy math or physics they sweated over in school.
No it's not, that actually the fringe. Maybe in your shitty school it's common. None of graduating class are doing non-engineering jobs, all are working on process design and imporvement petro refining, power generation or mining sector.

>the guy who understands the instructions well enough to supervise the people who have to follow them.
This is technologist work, if you're not doing engineering work it's illegal to call it engineering even if you have a degree.

>>7445357
No one likes to be told that they don't look like they have their accomplishments, even when it's meant as a compliment.

>Wow, you don't look like the type of person who would have a real life 3D human girlfriend!

>>7453967
>Wow, you don't look like the type of person who would have a real life 3D human girlfriend!
In her case the "3D human girlfriend" would be a paper mache anime printout though, which is probably why she's flipping out. Irony is the guy who made the first joke was right in a way.

>>7449439
>this is why I refer to those bloody terrorists as "ISIL". "ISIS" is already the name of so many other people and things.

"Daesh" you dumb cunt.

>>7453963
>http://sce.uhcl.edu/helm/SWEBOK_IEEE/papers/10%20reprint%205.pdf
First of all, this is from 1999, and software engineering is a lot more established since then. But you noticed that he contradicts himself, right? "development of software for engineered systems... is software engineering" Do you suppose software is usually run on systems that weren't engineered?

Engineering law, particularly the legal definition of engineering, is interpreted by engineering boards in all sorts of ways inconsistent with itself and with actual practice, often with ludicrous excuses to arbitrarily draw boundaries in such a way to avoid legislative alteration of the ostensible scope of the engineering profession.

>...if the practitioner is calling the activity software engineering, he or she is violating the law.
This is a funny claim, because it's:
a) consistent with the claimed interpretation with the definition of engineering he has just explained,
b) inconsistent with the actual definition of engineering given, and
c) never, ever going to be enforced.

>>It's very common for people with engineering degrees to end up writing software,
>No it's not
Again, you just have no fucking clue about what it's really like out there. Let me guess: 18 or 19 years old, and you didn't spend a significant amount of time with anyone with an engineering degree before you went to college?

>code monkey work you could get someone on a 30k per year salary to do
Decent non-engineer computer programmers make salary that's as good as the average engineer. It's very meritocratic.

>>the guy who understands the instructions well enough to supervise the people who have to follow them.
>This is technologist work, if you're not doing engineering work it's illegal to call it engineering even if you have a degree.
Oh, you poor dumb kid. You're going to be very disappointed with the career you actually get.

>>7453991
Nothing he said was contradictory, try reading it, are you perhaps not an engineering degree holder that you reading comprehension is so poor.

>c) never, ever going to be enforced.
People get heavily fined every single day. Some have even gotten jail time.

>Again, you just have no fucking clue about what it's really like out there.
No, unlike you I am an actual engineer you fucking shitstain.

>Decent non-engineer computer programmers make salary that's as good as the average engineer.
No they don't, CS can make good salary, IT is paid 30k etc. You're delusional as fuck and obviously know fuckall about the industry.

>You're going to be very disappointed with the career you actually get.
My career that I got was working in an R&D developing and optimizing PDAE models used in reactor design and process control systems by other engineers, which is similar to the jobs all my friends have. Again just because YOU are a loser, doesn't mean the rest of us are, you are literally the bottom 10% of engineering grads if you can't get a job related to your degree.


You are outright denying laws and publications to try and project your own failures onto an entire profession, you just have to check the forums on any professional society to see that virtually no one gets crappy unrelated jobs, you're pathetic and I'll bet my left ball you don't have an engineering degree or it's from a shit-tier school, I'd tell you to post time stamped proof, but we all know you can't, just stay off the internet and go kill yourself.

In the USA, engineers are generally not licensed. The protection for the title "engineer" is limited.

Every state has an "industrial exemption", which basically means that if you're hired as an employee to work as an engineer, you're an engineer. Your employer's responsible if he hired an idiot and your engineering is dangerous to the public.

Getting licensed lets you do things like call yourself an engineer while you're not employed as one (this is technically on the books, but isn't enforced), advertise engineering services (this one is enforced), and stamp and sign off on certain documents which are legally significant (this one is serious business).

So yeah, she can be a self-taught engineer in the USA.

>>7454014
but can not advertise as one while unemployed

>>7454014
Wrong, the title engineer is still federally protected even if the states can choose their own regulation practices, if your company gives you a title like engineer that's fine to use internally, but if you use the title engineer to advertise yourself on business cards etc. you can be prosecuted in any state.

An example of this would be if you're employed as an engineer for a company and they offer consulting services to another company and you/your company advertises you as an engineer when you are not.

They could literally wait for you to complete the work, then sue you for false advertising under the consumer act and get all their money back plus legal damages.

>>7454003
>>c) never, ever going to be enforced.
>People get heavily fined every single day. Some have even gotten jail time.
Not for calling software development by engineers "software engineering", which is what I was referring to.

>I am an actual engineer
You are an angry kid who doesn't understand the world and is now afraid he made a bad choice.

>No they don't, CS can make good salary, IT is paid 30k etc.
IT is not software development. It's shit like system administration.

>My career that I got was working in an R&D developing and optimizing PDAE models used in reactor design and process control systems
Nobody knows you're a dog on the internet.

>which is similar to the jobs all my friends have
>all my friends
You're breaking my heart here.

>you are literally the bottom 10% of engineering grads if you can't get a job related to your degree.
Again, no awareness of the statistical outcomes.

>>7454014
>>Getting licensed lets you do things like call yourself an engineer while you're not employed as one (this is technically on the books, but isn't enforced), advertise engineering services (this one is enforced), and stamp and sign off on certain documents which are legally significant (this one is serious business).
>Wrong
>An example of this would be if you're employed as an engineer for a company and they offer consulting services to another company and you/your company advertises you as an engineer when you are not.
God damn, read the whole post before you reply to it.

>>7454025
My point is she can't call herself an engineer, not even on twitter because that's public domain.


It's like a homeopath calling herself a medical doctor, she can't post that on twitter because she might get clients based on the false premise that she's a real doctor.

>>7454025
>>7454022
Also, no one ever gets prosecuted just for putting "engineer" on their business cards.

If the engineering organizations started cracking down on it, they'd have their power to do so officially taken away, and likely lose some other stuff in the bargain.

It's the law as it gets enforced that matters in the world. There are a lot of laws, and everyone breaks the law as it's written enough times every day to spend the rest of their life in prison.

Like I said before, most American engineers never bother getting their licence. It's not a big deal in practice, unless you want to do certain specific things.

>>7454040
>Also, no one ever gets prosecuted just for putting "engineer" on their business cards.
They in fact do, but only on major contracts since there is too many cases. And by major I mean at least over 100 mil, not some shitty code dev, contract no one cares about.
>If the engineering organizations started cracking down on it, they'd have their power to do so officially taken away, and likely lose some other stuff in the bargain.
You'd have to scrap the entire consumer act, it's not possible to take it away, the power doesn't just lie in the government mandated professional agencies, it's people seeking legal themselves.
>It's the law as it gets enforced that matters in the world. There are a lot of laws, and everyone breaks the law as it's written enough times every day to spend the rest of their life in prison.
If you lie about being a medical doctor, but all you do is provide beds and nursing services to small towns, your chances of being prosecuted is virtually null compared to if you try to do brain surgery on someone.
>Like I said before, most American engineers never bother getting their licence. It's not a big deal in practice, unless you want to do certain specific things.
Because they work in established process jobs and don't need it. This is going to change since the era of long term, stable employment is quickly coming to an end.

>>7454031
>>7454022
>if your company gives you a title like engineer that's fine to use internally, but if you use the title engineer to advertise yourself on business cards etc. you can be prosecuted in any state.
>she can't call herself an engineer, not even on twitter because that's public domain.
This is bullshit. There's no federal protection for the title "engineer". It's a state-by-state thing. And you're not limited to "internal use" of your job title.

>>7454058
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_protection#United_States
>Also, the majority of states have a Department of Consumer Affairs devoted to regulating certain industries and protecting consumers who use goods and services from those industries.[8] For example, in California, the California Department of Consumer Affairs regulates about 2.3 million professionals in over 230 different professions, through its forty regulatory entities. In addition, California encourages its consumers to act as private attorneys general through the liberal provisions of its Consumers Legal Remedies Act,
>the majority of states
>majority

No one cares if you can do it in your flyover shithole. Also considering that most consumer protection laws are federally enforced:
>Federal consumer protection laws are mainly enforced by the Federal Trade Commission, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, and the U.S. Department of Justice.
It doesn't take any stretch of the imagination that the state-by-state Uniform Deceptive Trade Practices Act will eventually be federal domain too.

This is only for "consumer protection", ie directly using the title, there are also federal health and safety acts protecting key industries. For example you NEED PEs to sign off on a lab in any sate.

>>7454052
>>Also, no one ever gets prosecuted just for putting "engineer" on their business cards.
>They in fact do, but only on major contracts since there is too many cases. And by major I mean at least over 100 mil
Jesus, you've got a fucked up view of the world. No, no one gets prosecuted just for putting "engineer" on their business cards. And not "since there is too many cases", but because it's a fucking stupid law that's offensive to common sense.

What are you talking about "major contracts... at least over 100 mil"? Signing a contract is not just putting "engineer" on a business card.

>This is going to change since the era of long term, stable employment is quickly coming to an end.
It's more likely that the silliness will get legislatively straightened out by officially cutting the power and significance of professional organizations, including the engineering boards.

Board licensure is a hassle and an obstacle to getting business done. It should be reserved for the cases where it really matters, so it can actually be enforced strictly enough to make a difference.

The idea that engineering is special because people could die is silly. People can die when you drive a car, or cook a meal. The idea that the boards over large professions hold their members to meaningful standards is also laughable.

>>7454085
The organizations have grown significantly in power over the last decades. The bureaucracy is going to get worse not tone down, prepare your anus.

>>7451624
ok, how bout then the fact that they were racist against another minority. Are you saying minorities can't be racist against other minorities either? Nice, lets let them fuck each other up then.

>>7454088
It's like what happened in South Africa.

Blacks, Indians and coloureds were all discriminated against.

But today Indians and coloureds no longer have the same affirmative action privileges as blacks, they are considered only slightly above whites under the law, but far below blacks. Then you also have different black tribes/races, if you're Xhosa or Zulu you will have far more opportunities than other black tribes.

The Xhosa/Zulu majority now enjoys both American style "minority" affirmative action, and hiring preferences by the corrupt practices. For example, the government tells a company they are too white and have to appoint a black CEO, instead of allowing the company to interview for the best black candidate, they will give you a shortlist which you must choose from. The people on this list are always friends and family members of the ANC officials. If you try to employ a black person not on the list you get heavily fined or worked out of your contracts.

>>7452080
"look at me im a nerd xddd"

>>7445483
exactly, they want equity of outcome, not equality of oppertunity

>>7445538
>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1168182/Catfights-handbags-tears-toilets-When-producer-launched-women-TV-company-thought-shed-kissed-goodbye-conflict-.html
hahahahahaha. life is so hilariously fucked

>>7452080
Im guessing when she says theoretical physics she just means particle physics without any of the math behind it

>>7454186
>Industrial engineering technician
That's literally just one step up from a robot. She definitely doesn't know the math behind it; I doubt she's gone beyond Calc I

>>7453979
That's a funny way to spell mossad

>>7445357
>Not a gay, white, shut in man wearing an anime shirt
>Engineer
The liberal media can't fool me

>>7445357
>i help building software
so she's what? an assistant programmer? an intern? a coffee cooker?