/sci/ - Science & Math

How can the science guy, the other science guy, the black science guy, the math guy, the dubs guy and the meme guy all exist in the same room?

>>7434515
I had to turn it off when he got to "number of books". Couldn't even make it to the reply.

>"The combined IQ of the people on that stage is higher than the entire population of the United States."

Cringe thread?

>>7434541

>>7434515

well, he has a point about all the pop science books and conjecture on the brain, but i don't know why he was making that point, and then he becomes about high school tier thinker with his avoiding and dismissal of the question, and, like, wow, i'm more eloquent then black science guy. that feels pretty cool.

quite frankly, for me, personally, anyone that seriously proposes that there's no such thing as consciousness is an idiot and i will attempt to never waste my time being conscious of their existence again.

>>7434515
It's a valid thought, but terribly presented. Also, he hasn't thought it through much.

Consciousness is something we might very well be incapable of reasoning through or comprehending. Yes, we can understand it on a mechanical level. I can take apart a mouse. I can visual small groups of neurons with extreme sensitive equipment, I can watch all of their inputs and outputs and slowly piece together how the system as a whole achieves states relative to stimulus. I can figure out how the internal works and correlate certain things onto those macro states... but do I understand it? Even then?

No. Not in the slightest. Taking an animal that is more a departure from humans, with entirely novel neurological structures, of I won't know in a primary sense how it experiences itself or the world. I don't even know that about another human being. There is the problem of time as well. Perhaps time is consciousness. Perhaps we're all machines wired only to think they're conscious and this gives rise to the experience, but by all reasonable definitions, cannot be called a meaningful form of consciousness.

Dunno. We don't know. I do know I can't stand watching people in front of audiences be ragged on, humiliated, or just simply embarrass themselves. Had to... consciously observe the note I'd stuck in my memory from repeated self experience, choose to heed it to yield the ideal outcomes, and stop the video halfway.

Why black science man. Why books as the proxy for making the point. Books. There's lots of books. In general.

>>7434541
>If I could hang out with 3 people for one day it'd be Neil Degrasse Tyson, Bill Nye and Joe Rogan.

>>7434812
Black science man is a pleb. Literally token black guy trotted out for diversity tier.

>>7434812
Wow. I just reread this, and despite thinking I'm fully lucid, every single piece of what I wrote is just fragmented and broken in general.

Done fugged it all up. I'll be back later. I need to go visual a system with extreme sensitive equipment ;).

>>7434515

Idiot from the front page stopping by, I'm glad Bill is still cocky enough to dismiss things with fake doobies in his old age.

>>7434526

>people theorizing outside of their expertise
even makes intellectuals looks stupid

>>7434526
I spent that entire video watching for Christian Bale before I realized you were talking about Bill Nye the Dubs Guy.

>>7435414
this.

gonna need a legend or something in that case

it may not have been the best explanation but there is a fair amount we know about consciousness . its a combination of electrical signals and chemicals being released. the electrical potential of neurons . you at a mental level are merely the sum of your parts

http://ic.ucsc.edu/~bruceb/psyc123/neuron.htm

lhttp://www.human-memory.net/brain_neurons.html

>brian greene on stage


based af tbh

>>7434515
>Bill Nye makes fun of Neil deGrasse Tyson's reply to Dawkins making Lawrence Krauss glad
WHAT A MEME!

>>7435402
Terence McKenna said 'We are asked by science to believe that the entire universe sprang from nothingness, at a single point and for no discernible reason. This notion is the limit case for credulity. In other words, if you can believe this, you can believe anything." http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/6588851-the-ultimate-singularity-is-the-big-bang-which-physicists-believe

Too many memes in one room.

Shut it down.

once again proving that pop scientists know shit all about anything

>>7434515
HO-LEE-SCHITT. Good find, OP.

fucking people who spout the lame conclusion that the is no consciousness. derp

>>7434515
Why the fuck did they laugh and clap at Bill's comment? I don't understand their humor. I cringed through the entire video.

>>7438340
I took it as they agreed with how ridiculous the argument was. And I felt a sudden hope for humanity in my heart.

>A nigger trying to intellectually compete with some of the greatest living scientists.

>>7438360
Of course there would be racism.
Black science man is still science man. Everyone says something stupid once in a while IMO, including everyone else in that room.

>>7438367
No, he plagiarised his college thesis. He's literally a hack.

>>7438369
Doesn't change what he has done that matters.

>>7438378
You mean appear in Youtube videos where white liberals can feel good about themselves for watching?

>>7438380
Appear in videos yes.

The fuck is he doing?

>>7438409
holy autism batman.

he's pantomiming sucking on a joint.

>>7438412
isn't that racist against tyson smoke degrasse ?

>>7434515
I like Richard's voice. He is the only that sounds intellectual there.

What a bunch of meme scientists.

>>7438444
I know you are but what am I?

>>7438452
That's not the question you should be asking ;)

>>7434515
>memes of sci partaking in typical sci shitposting
I did enjoy that

>bachelor of science in mechanical engineer bill nye calling out PhD astrophysicist neil Tyson

Wow

>>7438409
hes pretending to smoke weed you autist

>>7437300
>We are asked by science to believe that the entire universe sprang from nothingness
Terence McKenna is an idiot.

>>7438367
>Everyone says something stupid once in a while IMO
Ironically, some anons jumped down Bill's throat after what he said about race.

>>7434812
>I can take apart a mouse.

A mouse isn't conscious you dimwit! Chimpanzees, dolphins and humans are the only conscious animals on this fucking planet.

>Perhaps time is consciousness

This is when I took a gun out and put it next to my temple, I'm gonna pull the trigger right after I click "Post"

once again, an engineer brainrapes and mentally dominates an inferior "scientist"

>>7438776
>Chimpanzees, dolphins and humans are the only conscious animals on this fucking planet.
>elephants

>>7438360
>NDT
>nigger
wat

>>7438792
they are not, it's a simple test to find out if the animal is aware of ITSELF, and they don't pass it. Only chimpanzees, dolphins and humans do. Interestingly humans only get the ability to pass the test around 2-3 yo, meaning that before that the brain isn't yet developed to comprehend itself.

I think consciousness is just a script on top of a very large program. Something new that helped us get where we are. it must be there for the purpose of adaptation/learning. If the animal is aware of itself it will simply learn faster and adapt better.

>>7438743
News for you. We are all idiots

>>7434515
pic explains all

>>7438426
The cut the parts where he pantomimed eating fried chicken and watermelon, then made himself up in blackface and did a whole minstrel show about applying for welfare and not sticking around to raise your own kids.

Bill Nye the Racist Guy

>>7438701
agree

>>7438807

Manicheism, stop using it.

Less conscious, mote conscious, but never unconscious, even a E.coli is conscious about it's environnement, thank to chimiotactism and molecules receptors.

>>7438701
>muh appeal to authority
your black sheep is nothing more than a sperging memester
>less than 20 publications
meanwhile real scientists, researchers, and professors have hundreds

>>7438934
>Less conscious, mote conscious, but never unconscious,

Are you mentally challenged? Because you sure sound like you are...

By your definition I can make a little robot with a simple light detector and because the robot can detect light that means it's CONSCIOUS. Jesus Christ you people... Consciousness is the awareness of the self. For something to be conscious it has to have a self in the first place, a brain capable of generating self. Why is /sci/ so fucking retarded?

>>7438952

Lel, what I said, manicheism piece of shit.
Like there is an actual definition of consciousness.
Like the langage could define consciousness.

Of course, a bacteria is not able to think about itself, but, it surely can find the way for glucids, proteins, electrolytes.

You sir, have a misunderstanding.

>>7438952
>By your definition I can make a little robot with a simple light detector and because the robot can detect light that means it's CONSCIOUS

I've seen it taken further than that. I have heard someone argue everything is conscious, because even protons are 'aware' of the electric field around them.

I respect our beloved uncle Tom, but goddamn he loves to hear himself talk while spouting, ironically, (to a certain extent pseudo intellectual) nonsense.

Like come the fuck on, I wanna hear some interesting technical stuff, not some Goebbels-esque display of rhetoric.

>>7438807
Does this test an understanding of self or an understanding of mirrors, though?

>>7438409
>>7438412
>>7438426
>>7438727

>>7439107
That's the point, moron, we don't know a fuck about consciousness. Suppositions.

How accurate is that for you, doctor ?

>>7438988
>Lel, what I said, manicheism piece of shit.
>Like there is an actual definition of consciousness.
>Like the langage could define consciousness.


you're one of those retards...

>>7434515
NEEL DE GRYSE TYSON DUDE LMAO DUDE NEXT GOD OF SCIENCE

>>7439124
put a cat in front of a mirror and it will think another cat is inside the mirror, it only works young cats because older cats learn to avoid it. The reflection doesn't have any smell, it doesn't make any noise yet just by looking at it they think it's another separate cat. If they were aware of themselves they would be aware of their position, of their movements and it would be very easy to understand that the cat in the mirror acts the same way as they do. In short, how could you have a brain so powerful it is capable of generating consciousness yet it is not powerful enough to understand reflection? It's not only mirrors, cats sometimes get spooked by their own tail or a leg. To them that's just a tail, not THEIR tail because they don't really exist, they don't have themselves. They are nothing but biological robots just acting on piles and piles of genetically coded instructions.

>>7439163
We're all biological robits.

Sometimes I'll fall asleep in a weird position and wake up and feel my hand and it feels like another person's hand because I'm not used to being in that position so it doesn't register that it's mine.

Biological systems aren't perfect and are error prone.

>>7439163
Maybe the cat is confused because it expects reflective surfaces to be horizontal to the ground (water bodies) and so it thinks it's a real cat because only horizontal to ground surfaces are reflective.

>>7434515
I have no idea what is happening in this video, it's like every single person is going full retard at once

What a bunch of hacks. Consciousness is just the state of perceiving the world.

>>7438909

Gonna light a fat blunt with Bill one day

>>7434788
Oh god he should be put down just for that statement

For some fucking reason, Neil sounds fucking awkward. Not just this short discussion about consciousness, but for the rest of the panel.
Was he always like this? I never watched any of his series on TV.

>>7439941
hes a sperglord what do you expect

>>7439949
I thought he was at least as chill as the other guys.

>>7438369
Sauce?

>>7439163
I appreciate your opinion. This doesn't prove that cats don't experience the world though (have qualia).

>>7434812
if you think you are, you are

>>7435421
still don't get it

>>7438265
ha

>>7438432
finally a regarded author/thinker says what we all know

>>7438743
no. he's not by a long shot. by a fucking long shot

>>7438807
still don't get it

>>7439496
ok?

>Meme scientist discussing meme topics

>>7440217
all reality is

is a system of information within consciousness

there is no greater topic. going in, vs. going out. staying out. let the forms dissolve child, let them melt together. for they come from the same source

>>7440222
Nope. Reality is hands down absurd. If all was reality, reality could be shifted by 1 person's actions. The fact that 1 man alone can't bend it, but multiple men can, is the sole argument. Unless Earthlings as a whole are on one stream of conscious.

>>7440265
what do you mean bend

give an example

>>7440265
>Reality is absurd
GTFO Camusfags

>>7434834
Kek'd at that too

>>7438929
SUPERKEK

>>7438929
Sounds like a Whitest Kids You Know sketch

meme scientists, but respect to Dawkins and Greene

>>7440317
Greene's an asshole. Fuck this guy. Richard's ok, but too insecure, way too much.

>>7440217
dawkins is a real scientist and had the best story there

>>7440408
Greene's got the best credentials though

Bill Nye confirmed for master of the banter

>>7440422
Says virtually nothing though

Consciousness is self awareness.
We are complex machines.
In a simple machine you know what the outputs will be for given inputs.
In the case of animals with highly evolved nervous systems and brains the inputs are too many (for example long and short term memories, hormone levels, emotional state, visual, auditorial, tactile), the outputs are nearly impossible to predict especially since the inputs often come from relationships with equally unpredictable machines.
Look at conways game of life. You get huge complexity from such a simple system, it's not a surprise that this massively complex system that is our universe can yield such a complexity of interactions and behaviour when creatures like us evolve.
Self awareness seems to be a natural consequence of complex neural networks. One could argue that a certain threshold for network size must be reached to achieve consciousness. One could also argue consciousness exists within every system of in and outputs like on a scale, just like we consider bacteria life like we are life only much more primitive.

>>7440699
Consciousness is perception of outside surroundings. Self awareness is an internal recognition of self. But great job thinking you understand intelligent life.

>>7440699
you telling me my dog isn't conscious?

>>7440777
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08RFTI9QR20

>>7439839
lol'd... so.fucking.hard

>>7438807

How could higher level consciousness, which can override impulses to feed and procreate, be an evolutionary advantage?

>>7438929
kek
>>7434515
why the hell are they arguing about consciousness? none of them have degrees in any subject relating to it, as far as I know. they have about as much credibility as me on this subject. all the popsci fags who worship them need to get it through their thick skulls that being educated on one type of science does not make you an expert on all of them

>>7438929
lost it at "minstrel show"

>>7440790
please leave 4chan forever

>>7437300

The great evil, in my humble opinion, which haunts our enterprise - and I say this realizing that I'm setting the fox among the chickens - the great evil that has been allowed to flourish in the absence of mathematical understanding, is relativism. And what is relativism? It's the idea that there is no distinction between shit and Shinola. That all ideas are somehow operating on equal footing. So one person is a chaos theorist, another is a follower of the revelations of this or that new-age guru, someone else is channeling information from the Pleiades and we have been taught that political correctness demands that we treat all these things with equal weight. Because we have no mathematical ability, no logical ability, we don't know how to ask the questions that expose some positions as preposterous, trivial, insulting to the intelligence, and unworthy of repetition.

>>7441616

So we all are very comfortable bashing science and flailing away at that, but that isn't our enemy. Science is capable of undertaking its own reformation and critique and has been engaged in that, fairly vigorously, for some time. The enemy that will really subvert the enterprise of building a world based on clarity, is the belief that we cannot point out the pernicious forms of idiocy that flourish in our own community. And this problem is growing worse all the time. I mean, just pick up a copy of Magical Blend or Shaman's Drum and you will discover an appeal to the level of intellect that makes what's going on with television advertising look like a meeting of the Princeton Institute of Advanced Study. We have tolerated too many loose heads in our community. We are not willing to take on the karma involved in argument and discourse that actually gores somebody's ox. So that at the end of the day, iridology, or Mormonism, or some other form of institutionally supported foolishness lies in shreds on the floor. We consider this politically incorrect. I can feel the tension in this room because people sense I might gore their particular ox.

>>7441619

If we had learned mathematical logic, or reason, or rules of evidence, when someone approaches us excited to inform us that the ruins of Lemuria have been spotted in the deep sea off Big Sur, or something like that, we would be able to respond to that with the contempt it deserves.

I had a conversation about this recently with someone, who if I had to describe their job category I would describe them as "Mafiosa." And I said "What do you think of the abduction phenomenon?" And without hesitation this person said, "There are just so many foolish people in the world." And to me, all of these things are intelligence tests. And the people who pass the intelligence tests are not worrying about pro bono proctologists from other star systems showing up unannounced in their bedrooms.

So uh, you know, we have perfected politeness. We have perfected the ability to listen to damn foolishness without betraying by so much as the flick of an eyebrow that we realize what we're in the presence of. Now, I think it's time to refine our mathematical skills, learn to think straight, and not be afraid to denounce the pernicious forms of foolishness which are vitiating the energies of our community and making us appear marginal and absurd in the discourse about truly transforming society.

>>7440414
>fucking coined the word "meme"
>not a meme scientist

>>7434515

He never does, it's embarrassing to watch him clowning around. This man is the face of USA science, people.

bill nye was being a dick he's just as much a meme scientist as this tyson.