/sci/ - Science & Math

'c'huckels sensibly

>>7391365
that lab looks like shit what the fuck

>tfw slowly becoming adept at interpreting large-molecule 2D NMR spectra

>>7391365
>c'huckels

Holy shit I have read that post like 20 times and I kept thinking it was a failed "extreme gentlemen" meme

Ochem is the bomb.

I will never get sick of retards mishandling BuLi.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

>>7391377
that's Shulgin's shack

>>7391483
really? how did that retarded junkie not contaminate himself constantly

oh wait...i guess that was the point.

>>7391486
Someone who develops hundreds of drugs is "retarded"....

>>7391486
>the only thing that makes a lab safe is everything being white

>>7391572
Some of these things have become drugs in the sense that we can control the delivery/dosage and understand most short term and many long term side affects, but most of the things he found more or less got him high to some degree and that does not qualify as "developing" a drug.

ooga booga where da aromatic amines at

Guys what the hell is this

>>7393850
1,3,5-your-mother-ene

>>7393860

If your mother is carbon, and hydrogen is penises, your mom is that, she's fucking two other moms while simultaneously taking dick.

>>7393872
My mom is ethyne

posted this in another thread but it doesnt seem like anyone was interested...still i wanna see if someone could answer my question.

Organic chemistry is applied in many places, not just drug development which seems to be the most widely known application. so how does that factor into determining what a person wants to study in graduate school? I feel like synthesis would be a lot of fun, but i also hear that its a very competitive field. If i were to study synthesis of, for example, a drug in graduate school, what would my resume look like in terms of applying it to all the things in the industry that use organic synth, but not drug synthesis?

>>7393881
that would be a mom making out with another mom while both moms take dicks.

thanks. i have a new fetish.

>>7393850
That is benzene thats bonded with hydrogen, homes.

>>7391381
>tfw studying orgo
>tfw one day I can look at an IR or NMR and almost subconsciously deduce the structure

dat practice, tho

http://labphoto.tumblr.com/

>>7393916
>http://labphoto.tumblr.com/
I've been looking for some oldschool stuff, thanks anon
All these distillations, inorganic stuff, cleverly sidestepping column purifications. This shit is so cool

>>7393916
This link gave me an erection.

>>7393909
> also known as just benzene

>>7393911
>trivial routine analysis of small molecules

*yawn* join the club

what the fuck is with that guy >>7393916

>Just a quick workup for the previous reaction. Add some water and a non-miscible organic solvent what will probably dissolve the product. Wash the organic phase with everything what you find in the lab, this will probably remove the side products from the organic phase. Separate the phases, evaporate the organic solvent and be happy with the pure product.


do people really do this

>>7395436
Do people really do liquid extractions? What?

>>7395436
Yes, sometimes you're just completely stumped and you want to avoid doing a column so you fuck around a little.

It actually works, sometimes. Can be difficult to reproduce though.

>>7395474
>>7395690
what about organic byproducts

>>7395436
that "english" triggered my autism

Organic Chemistry is all done in advanced labs with high-security, accountable staff, close-to-zero corruption, and every glass, vial, and chemical is properly accounted for so that none can be diverted to nefarious means, so if you are thinking of joining o-chem looking to synthesize 'fun' drugs, forget it ;^)

We only make blood pressure medicines and the like here, and even if you got into opiate or amphetamine production, your Big Pharma boss is so worried about liability they will have 25 cameras trained on your back the entire time you are working, so good luck running off with anything.

The labs are perfectly secure, the utmost safety routines are taken, this is one of the most morally-correct fields in the industry, everyone is a good man, from the janitor to the chemists themselves.

Never have I been more proud to work in science

>>7395897
>>7395897
Flasks and chems go missing all the fucking time at my lab, pretty sure 99% of what you wrote is patently bullshit.

And somehow when its not needed urgently the big 3-neck flask mysteriously vanishes and makes its way back to the storage cabinet at a later date, hrmmm...

>>7395436
Sometimes you can greatly simplify another purification by doing some sort of extractive workup.

>>7395726
Organic byproducts can only really be removed by acid/base workup pending the pKa of your functional groups. Say it's difficult to separate a benzylic alcohol from its corresponding benzoic acid on a column: you could wash with aqueous base to deprotonate and dissolve the carboxylic acid in the aqueous layer, largely separating the two and greatly simplifying your column.

I have a question for all you chem grad students.
I know the myth that you practically have to be a chemistry god to synthesize LSD. But i have a feeling that its not that hard if you had the right education and equipment.
Lets say you had access to a university grade labratory, unrestricted access to precursor chemicals (even the ones that are strictly controlled) and would not have to worry about being caught.
Could someone with a grad school level chemistry education be able to do the synthesis? Or is it really that hard?

Ayoooo, i´ve got a question!
I´m 21, i just finished my bachelors in industrial and inorganic chemistry and i did a apprenticeship as a chemical technician / lab technician.
Am i allowed to call myself a engineer?
A friend of mine - who did the same thing - went to the employment office and they told her she can apply as a chemical engineer, cause of all the diplomas.
Also: what should i do next? Master of science and then phd?

>>7396081
oh get out of here...
>muh chemistry
>lets cook drugs!
no wonder there are no new junior-chemists with all those probitions cause by idiots like you.
When i grew up you could even buy red phosphorus and concentrates acids in drugs stores, now it´s 3% peroxide solution max. i hate you.

>>7391486
you clearly have no experience regarding working in a lab whatsoever

>>7396371
speak for yourself American, here in Mexico I can buy hydrochlric acid at max strength and red phosp. as well

I hear in Texas they write your name down for just buying a 3-way flask lmao

Makes me wonder if some drug-makers ever just buy a 4-way flask and seal 1 exit pipe.

>>7396390
i´m not american, i´m in europa but it got worse, thanks to certain people...

Computer science / Chemist. Good combo or not (Too late to change it anyways)

>>7396422
good combo, very good combo

>>7393886
i study non-enzymatic browning of food. food/flavor chemistry is the best branch of orgo you're not studying.

>>7396371
I wasn't trying to come across as
> hurr lets make drugs guies.
I was simply asking how difficult a complex senthesis process is in reality in contrast to the myth and folklore surrounding it. I figured in a thread like this i would find the kind of people who would know the answer better than I ever could. I am math and computer engineering, was never great at chemistry. Im just curious regarding if the synthesis of LSD is really as difficult as popular myth proposes.

>>7393881
>>7393893
post more ethyne mom porn pl0x

>>7396474
You could do it with a basic setup and a certain knowledge, except you need inert gases and it´s most likely that some amateuer will fuck himself up or poisen himself. Most used chemicals in this synthesis are highly toxic and sensitive to air and moisture, so i don´t think anyone outside the chemistry world could do it.
source: i´m an inorganic chemist, working with said materials every day (:

>>7396520
So really its all about having the right lab enviroment to keep the toxic chemicals in check and the experience to know how to work with them? So would you say that level of skill is common for grad students and/or people who work with them daily?

>>7396081
>Could someone with a grad school level chemistry education be able to do the synthesis?
Probably. From what I remember it involves some tricky procedures, but as long as you're familiar with the techniques it should just be a matter of following instructions. Unless you plan on taking it, or are getting some sort of novelty appeal out of it, I don't see the purpose though.

>>7396371
Speaking personally though, reading the procedure was what bridged the gap between "lol drugs" to actually starting to see the beauty of ochem.

>>7396474
Looking at the TiHKaL synth, it's actually pretty straightforward. Hydrolysis of the amide, acyl chloride formation, amide formation. First year carbonyl chemistry in theory. Trickiest parts would be working under inert atmosphere, low light, and the recrystallization, but most undergrads can do the first and most grads have done the latter two.

>>7396012
extractions and triturations are usually really non-selective to side products (you figure out why, genius).

Columns are fast and automated nowadays. Only trash slave grad students have to worry about the effort of packing

>>7397979
>Probably. From what I remember it involves some tricky procedures, but as long as you're familiar with the techniques it should just be a matter of following instructions. Unless you plan on taking it, or are getting some sort of novelty appeal out of it, I don't see the purpose though.


fucking kek confirmed for having never worked in an organic lab

>>7398028
Why would you choose to follow recipes over doing actual novel work?

I have a confession /sci/.

Whenever I do Organic Chemistry stuff, whether NMR analysis, or planning out a synthetic pathway, I get a bit of a boner. I don't get horny, per say, but something about looking through the skeletal structure of some alkene and setting up a multi step synthesis to make it into an amide or something just gets me hard as shit.

Of course then I go watch some porn, rub it out, then can continue on with the chemistry, but does anyone else get this sensation?

>>7396390
yeah but on the downside you live in Mexico

>>7398018
The partial synthesis is straightforward. The total synthesis, on the other hand, is decidedly more complex. A total synthesis was first carried out by the legendary Woodward in 1956 and took 15 steps (no idea on the overall yield but it was probably terrible). A more recent synthesis from 2013 took 19 steps and gave a 12% yield overall.

Hey guys i fucked up a reaction. I mixed chalcone with nitromethane and put way too much KOH in. Instead of a yellow color in solution, it looks muddy red/auburn. Any ideas on what happened?

>>7399042
Were you trying to get the Michael adduct? You probably got some awful mixture of oligomers.

>>7396520
>inorganic chemist
>works with organic precursors for LSD
Out, high schooler.

>>7399074
The chalcone had a boc-protected amine group, and the nitromethane was supposed to attach to the beta carbon.

>>7393850
A dangerous chemical

>>7399121
Eh I doubt the amine is interfering, I'm guessing the KOH deprotonated the product and made it undergo further addition??? Run it through a column and see what you get. It might just be a small amount that's making your reaction mixture look horrible.

>>7399203
Yeah, will do. Separating it between water and ethyl acetate is causing a bit a trouble, probably because of the nitromethane. The reaction worked before, and the only difference I can think of was the extra KOH. Thanks

>>7399247
Remember, when in doubt, pray to the gods of silica.

>>7398857
This, alongside the idea that the product might be biologically active. Even better if said product is biologically active.

>>7399121
I'm a bit rusty, but I'm guessing you were trying to add a methyl and create a tertiary alcohol, correct? If this is the case, it's plausible that having too much KOH in solution may have caused a minor product of diols where you were originally supposed to have added the methyl. This would be even more likely the case if you're using the nitromethane as the limiting reagent.

>>7398025
...hence "pending the pKa of your functional groups" as a disclaimer. l2read

>>7399247
You can probably rotovap out the nitromethane prior to extraction if you're having serious problems with emulsions.

>>7398030
>recipes

imblyign it ever works to follow a proc

orgsyn is a shit website full of cheating indians who don't publish their actual procedures.

>>7398857
me 2 wanna fuk

>>7399121
hit it with formic acid & formaldehyde. huge acid excess; get dat prod

>>7399247
dude dissolve everything in cloroform:ipa 3:1 and then extract with dcm. problem solved

>>7399310
columns are for pusses
eat a puss

>>7395897
where do you work? i suppose chemist w/ Phd?

what materials do you guys use for references?

>>7393850
cyclohex-1,3,5-ene

How could one go about synthesising this (phenibut)

My idea was

1) Obtain 1-chlorobutan-4-ol
2) Heat with ammonia
3) Heat under reflux with acidified potassium dichromate
4) Obtain phenibut sans the phenyl group


Obviously this is not a great synth as I don't know how to phenylate this properly, also I'm starting with some awkward compound.

Don't know what needs protecting, too.

Anyone got any better ideas?

>>7396081
Well let's look at it here.
Since you said we have unrestricted access to precursor chemicals, let's start with ergotamine (which can be either extracted from a certain fungus or even just bought over the counter as a pill). You're then literally one reaction away from LSD.
>this is how it was first made

In the scenario that you provided, you don't need a grad student to do this. A highschooler could probably do it.

>>7395935
>implying
Here's a story i heard , so i cannot verify if it's legit but i assume that it is.
>be some biochem student working in an uni lab
>another student asks for some acid (forgot the name but its quite toxic (not HF))
>using that acid one can convert adrenaline in to good old speed
>asks for a liter of it
>WTF , k whatever here take it
>guy who asked for acid busted 2 years later for producing speed
I assume however that sneaking something out of a pharma company lab would require you to stick it up the ass in corner that does not have any cameras.

>>7402582
Meant to reply to
>>7395897

>>7402452
Ok nigger here's my take;

1) Start with phenethylamine
2) bromine + hv
3) Grab some ethyl acetate or some shit, do an enolate reaction (fuck it, LDA or something)
4) De-esterify your shit (just throw some acid and heat it up)

>>7396422
>Not wanting to simulate advanced reaction dynamics and mechanisms
Hell yeah its good.

>>7402507
Highschoolers are generally shit with any sterile/air free technique.

>>7402626
It would take a few tries, but honestly it's not that bad. They'd atleast get some product.

>>7402636
They'd have to work in the dark.

>>7402640
>Not making a vacuum box with IR cameras inside
People aren't thinking out of the box.

>>7402640
I'm not sure what you have in mind, but all you have to do is hydrolyze the amide (there's a slew of reactions for this, many aren't light-sensitive), then form another amide using diethylamine (there's also a slew of reactions for this).

The kids could have some trouble isolating the product after the first reaction, but you could probably design some sort of one-pot synthesis for them and I'm confident they'd be able to do it.

>>7402603
hv?
high voltage?

>>7402716
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-radical_halogenation

>>7402759
so HV being High-End UV? or just mispelt UV?

>>7402766
Usually we use hv to signify a photochemical reaction (stemming from E = hv). It never occured to me that this wasn't universal convention

>>7402836
Ah, yeah, I see where you get that from now.
Any range of UV in particular? Or just blast it with wide range UV and hope for the best?

>>7402603
Also, that LDA is Lithium diisopropylamide yeah?

Any ideas for purification after de-esterification?

>>7402841
I've never actually done this reaction. I'm pretty sure you can just blast it with a general blacklight though.

>>7402845
Yup. There are other options too though, LDA is actually really nasty and you could probably just use NaOH.

After the bromination you're probably going to get a little bit of di-brominated product too. You could just ignore this for the next reaction (and just add heavy excess of ethyl acetate).

From this step, you would have the products in pic related.

I would personally just recrystallize at this step, assuming the di- product is minor. If it's a significant amount then the obvious solution is a column but you might be able to get around that by playing with trituration and shit.

In my opinion you should have pure mono- product before you de-esterify. After the reaction, I would extract with aqueous saturated bicarb solution to neutralize whatever acid I chose to use (let's say sulfuric), as well as remove some of the ethanol by-product. You could keep extracting with water to help get rid of the ethanol, though honestly you could probably just leave it on the rotovap or vacuum pump for a while and it will fuck off.

All of this is under the assumption that phenibut is solid.

>>7391341
/Sci/ I will be taking organic chemistry next semester and I'm preparing for it before hand by studying ahead during the summer. Do you have any recommendations?

Also are there flashcards that are on Anki that I should study by rote memorization that will help me in my organic chemistry journey?

>>7393801
You have no clue do you?

>>7403360
anki is for dumb idiots who believe in marketing.

smart study is better than repetitive study, obviously.

Also, buy an ochem text or find one online. Start memorizing name reactions. If you use names vs reagents on tests, your RA/prof will cum and you will pass. Organics are strange beasts.

My bitch know her place. I called her a hydroxyl group on the left side of a bond line structure and she ain't even get mad!

>>7400786
>>7399331
>tfw not alone

>>7402419
>forgetting it is actually triene
Always gets 'em

>>7403586
FUG

>>7393850
Benzola, unclogs toilets, disenfects hands and tastes fresh.

>>7403522
>tfw always alone, even when not alone

>>7393911
>>7391381
Sure, but you still won't get laid.

What's your favorite shit.

1,2,3,4,5,6-hexahydroxycyclohexane
bromochlorofluoroiodomethane

>>7404702
>1,2,3,4,5,6-hexahydroxycyclohexane
but what configuration?

help I need to learn ochem from scratch, where do I start and what online resources do I use

>>7395897
Meh, illicit LSD has to come from somewhere where people know what they're doing.

>>7396081
Owsley Stanley look him up. Although he had the benefit of being able to obtain some precursors that you'd never be able to find now.

>>7393909
>That is benzene thats bonded with hydrogen
So benzene?

>>7404795
>Meh, illicit LSD has to come from somewhere where people know what they're doing.

Loving
Every
Laugh

shake and bake!

>>7402943
You can't use NaOH. The pKa of ethyl acetate is ~20, and NaOH is ~17. Also, I would worry NaOH would just hydrolyze the ester.


LDA isn't that bad to work with honestly

>>7403360
Don't ever rote memorize anything. If you memorize exact reactions, the prof will throw different groups on there and you'll be fucked. Learn mechanisms. Learn them again. When you're done learning them, learn them a third time. Draw evvvverything, don't just read it. This will help you start to be able to predict reactivity and once you can do that you're golden.
It would also be worth your time to learn some pKa values. pKa values also will help you predict reactivity.

>>7403437
Also, don't bother learning named reactions. That's really dumb advice. It's like somebody needing to learn algebra and telling somebody to learn calculus. It's overkill at best.

>>7404786
see
>>7406646

Look for Organic Chemistry as a Second Language by Klein. Great book for learning how to do shit.

>>7402606
>this is currently my undergrad research

It's interesting but requires little thought. I'd rather be doing synthesis or studying reaction kinetics.

>>7399017
What is implied by total synthesis?

>>7405063
>shaking and baking LSD
Enjoy your poison.

>>7406964
Starting from simple, common and cheap molecules. Ergotamine tartarate is not a simple, cheap, or common molecule.

>>7402943
Also, analysis of product to make sure I've not made some chemical that'll just fuck my shit up

How? Would I just run through tests for phenyl, amine etc?

Also, the biologically active form of Phenibut is the beta form - how could I maximise beta-phenibut output?

>>7402670
It's not the amide that's the issue, if you read the TiHKaL article on it it describes the fragile points of the ergotamine part itself. One or two of the stereocenters are held by acidic protons, and the alkene next to the indole is apparently susceptible to all sorts of additions

>>7391377

looks safer than my lab

while I got white tables and white walls and white everything going for me,

he's got a fire extinguisher going for him.

>>7407060
How simple is simple? Surely you could synthesise it from carbon and hydrogen albeit with shit yield, but could you purify the 0.01% of it that was actually synthesised?

>>7407382
Hello autism
It's a sliding scale. The lsd synth here is literally just switching the amine, so it would be more of a partial synth. If you actually made the indole and all the other carbon rings, it'd be more of a total synth.
Just google total synthesis to get an idea

Can any organic chem PhDs or grad students enlighten me about job opportunities for o-chem past grad school?

I'm hoping to apply to grad school in the fall, but if it's as bad as I see some forums online posting about, I'm running as far away as I can. I really like chemistry, but I'm not willing to trade no job security ever for a PhD in organic.

>>7407673

>job security
>chemistry


Top cuck, should've done engineering lad

>>7407673
I hope you like analytical chem, because that's what you'll do forever and ever.

PhD in organic may mean you work at a pharma lab though, mostly doing quality control kinda stuff (fancier analytical).

>>7407676
But they don't do the same work as chemists. What the fuck, where are the chemistry jobs?

>>7407699

A lot of people thought chemistry would be a good job to get money.

>>7407702
So, what now? When I finish my bachelors should I try to get a job and take classes on the side till I earn a ChemE degree?

>>7407706
>bachelor's

You could always go into law.

In all seriousness a lot of chemistry jobs that you can get with a bachelor's degree are analytical in nature, such as testing water or quality control of products.

>>7407714
I get that, but where are all the chemistry jobs that require synthetic knowledge? Is it really that bad that no one can find a job? I can search online right now and see many job openings for an organic chemist at the phd level. I just don't understand...

>>7407071
NMR, friend

>>7407702
>tfw
I want to do medicinal chemistry and I'm well on my way to it; am I fucked?

>>7402626
this ain't a question of skill, its a question of tool, and material.

Is being a grad student really as bad as everyone says?

How much worse can it be than working a full time professional job?

>>7407770
It all depends on your PI. I have friends that their PI says that they have to be at work x amount of time per week, and they have to sign off saying when they're in lab. My PI is very much the opposite. Get your shit done, and he doesn't give a shit when you're there.
People always bitch about the money. You're probably going to get 20-30k in pay, but thats not factoring in tuition (add 20k) and the fact that you're being paid to be in school, to get your PhD. You also get the freedom to basically research what you want, and if you go to a decent university, you have all the tools and resources available to do so. Honestly, its not a bad deal