/sci/ - Science & Math

No.

>>7273582
/thread

>>7273578
>>7273582
Yes. Send a body into motion on a path that will not intersect with anything in the universe, and it will continue on that path indefinitely.

>>7273585
moron

>>7273589

idiot

>>7273595
>perpetual motion
>perpetual motion machine

at least one of us knows the difference. protip: its not the moron

>>7273578
look, it works

>>7273589
>on a path that will not intersect with anything in the universe

idiot

>>7273596
>being so literal

idiot

>>7273589
Ah, woah, centuries wondering about perpetual motion and it was always there, in Newton's first law!!

That's obviously not what people talking about "perpetual motion" talk about. And what they want is impossible.

>>7273589
But gravity is everywhere so no

>>7273589

Not only are you deliberately misunderstanding the question, making you a cocksucker, but you're also wrong, making you a blowhard moron. There is no such thing as "empty space", eventually accumulated quantum perturbations will deflect or retard your motion.

have a car with wifi
download a lot of fuel data
make a machine that turns fuel data into matter
put the machine in the car
hook up a pipe between the machine and car

>>7273578
it already exists

> bb-b-but therz a magical hidden motor inside
expect autistic deniers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqG-TL0WnjE

>>7273819
> bb-b-but therz a magical hidden motor inside
No you retard, it's a normal motor, nothing magical about it.

>>7273847
where is it ?

>>7273851
didn't you read? he said inside

>>7273859
he didn't even say inside cumface

>>7273847
>>7273865
are you diagnosed clinically retarded or have you reached this state all on your own?

>>7273869
> bla bla bla i cant come up with anything related to the subject
shitpost elsewhere please

>>7273875
the subject IS shitposting, what would anyone expect the replies to be

>>7273878
use counter arguments or go away

>>7273819
>therz a magical hidden motor inside
We had a perpetual motion themed lab where we embedded motors and controllers in much smaller devices than those.

The green contains a motor, the ratchet acts as gear in your pictured setup.

The best perpetual motion setup we made used a permanent magnet and a pulsed electromagnet coil in the base of it and the system was tuned so that the pulsing wouldn't overcome rest friction and start the system and only kept a moving system moving in a really convincing manner, we had it set up in a glass display and pointed a webcam at it and claimed that the prototype was bought by Shell for $10M and they only allowed us to display it under the condition that it was never dissembled or removed from the display area and camera surveillence.

It was hilarious to convince first year students that perpetual motion is a real and suppressed tech.

There's no hidden conspiracy, people make devices like this for fun all the time. And gullible people that have no clue about electronics and micromotors buy into it all the time.

>>7273890
it's not even a screenshot from the video you shitbrain. it's obvious you didn't even watch it.

>>7273578
>>7273582
>>7273585
>>7273589
>>7273595
>>7273596
please start reporting threads about free energy or perpetual motion instead of getting trolled to death.

>>7273899
It's a suggested followup when you watch the clip you linked to its end.

The device you linked to doesn't work, people have built replicas of it and guess what, they don't work.

>>7273899
https://youtu.be/rGATeTmOrUw
Here's a replica working. Just need an air compressor to maintain its perpetual motion.

>>7273819
It's not perpetual motion, because energy goes into charging permanent magnets. Anyone who thinks that this is perpetual motion has clearly never manually created a permanent magnet. The magnets will eventually become inert.

>>7273578
The universe is a perpetual motion machine.

>>7273910
nice opinions with nothing to support with. ignored.
>>7273925
well its not really perpetual if you need extra input.
>>7273926
I see that there's a general confusion on what perpetual motion is. Perpetual motion isn't energy that comes out of nowhere. These devices uses two permanent forces of earth which is gravity and electromagnetism. It's not an infinite power source and it will wear off in time. Replacing the magnets in the videos have ery low cost compared to the time and power they supply, and can be used for hundreds of years (magnets have an average 400 years of lifetime). And that's why they can be used as perpetual motion energy generators.

>>7273926
> It's not perpetual motion, because energy goes into charging permanent magnets
I hope you're trolling.

>>7273955
yeah, you are clinically retarded.. please go back to
>>/x/
this is
>>/sci/
where we discuss science, not perpetual motion machines

>>7274002
> still nothing close to an argument
spamming 'hurr go back' doesn't magically make you discuss like an adult. You obviouly don't even belong to this board so I'll simply ignore you.

>>7273578
Of course, just use a boosted EMDrive. Of course, it's not really making energy from nothing; it's extracting it from the quantum vacuum Hilbert hotel.

>>7273955
> what are conservative fields
you've studied at least general physics right?
tell me how you're gonna get energy out of a system that just uses magnets or gravity

>>7274045
> magnets or gravity
Magnets AND gravity. watch the video for fucks sake

>>7274056
do a calculation for fuck sake.
take an intro to physics for fuck sake

adding complexity to your system doesn't mean you can get energy out of these conservative fields

>>7273955
>I see that there's a general confusion on what perpetual motion is. Perpetual motion isn't energy that comes out of nowhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion
>A perpetual motion machine is a hypothetical machine that can do work indefinitely without an energy source.

But I suppose you are free to propose your own definition

>>7274064
The video is a working example right there. Unless you'll sperg like "hurr invisible magic motorz", I'm ready to listen why this system wouldn't work. Otherwise shitpost elsewhere.

>>7274090
> I'm ready to listen why this system wouldn't work.
YOU CANNOT GET ENERGY OUT OF CONSERVATIVE FIELDS

>>7274092
Then how do you explain the video.

>>7274101
probably a motor.

it is physically impossible for it not to have some kind of energy input.
it will eventually slow down due to losses.

You are violating basic physics any other way.

>>7274105
> it is physically impossible for it not to have some kind of energy input.
there are two very strong permanent forces you fucking retard.
> it will eventually slow down due to losses.
ofcourse it will, nobody is saying it will go forever.

He talks about physics when he can't even tell the energy inputs. I don't even know why I bother with these people.

>>7274115
magnets aren't energy inputs you fucking troll.

>>7274101
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp-Eg_fH9qo
look man!! people can fly, we have been lied our entire life!!1!

>>7274117
> continuously attracts or repels metals
> not an energy input
i don't even know anymore...

>>7274123
> every video is fake
I bet you believe US didn't land on the moon and they shot those films in a studio or something.

back to >>>/x/

>>7274127
> Earth continually pulls things towards it.
> an energy input

> i don't even know anymore..
I can tell. Since you don't seem to know what a conservative field means.
To move apart something magnetic from a magnet in space, it takes the same amount of energy that you'd get out of it, when you let go and let the magnet fall back.
You need additionally energy to separate the magnets every time, hence an energy input.

>>7274137
you dont need an 'extra' energy. just watch the fucking video for once for jesus fucking christ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkLfpXpO5sQ

>>7274148
The video is a fake

>>7274148
I watched it. I don't believe youtube videos over physics textbooks.
If you think a youtube video is sufficent evidence you belong on another board.
>>7274128
> All those other nutters who deny mainstream science are crazy, but not me.

>>7274128
I don't, but then how do you distinguish a fake video from a legit one? convenience?

>>7274157
you can say that about any video

>>7274158
> I watched it. I don't believe youtube videos over physics textbooks.
Yet you can't explain how it works without going full retard.

>>7273578
Absolutely--shoot something into interstellar space and then make it rotate. I guarantee it'll stay rotating for longer than there will be humans around to observe it.

>>7274163
>ignore basic physics and easy explanation like faking the video with a motor or air blower like literally every other one of these epic fake videos
>accept magic explanation instead
>the guy obviously doesn't use the invention to generate all the free money every and instead makes a shitty youtube video

top top

>>7274166
>I guarantee it'll stay rotating for longer than there will be humans around to observe it.

What does perpetual mean?

>>7274168
> cant even form one counter argument
> expect to get taken seriously
come back in a few years

Let's make a sacred pact: if any of us invent compact fusion power, we have to present it to the public concealed within an apparent perpetual motion machine, and never tell anyone about the fusion.

>>7274201
> baiting intesifies

>>7274201
I did
The video is fake because not only would working machine violate basic physics but out of previous 1000 videos exactly 1000 were faked so what makes that one special?

Not to mention again, if it worked the guy would be a billionaire instead of making shitty youtube videos.

Simply epic bait dude

>>7274207
It does work, but it's just useless. Do you know how fast a dynamo has to turn just to light up a small led ? Connecting anything to this machine to pull power would result in enough friction to stop the machine or get a really small amount of power.

Unless you make a much bigger replica which might actually be useful. But then again, the cost of the magnet would probaby balance out the power you would get from this.

in conclusion : Yes it works, but it has no useful application.

>>7273578
Theoretically, it is possible. But realistically, it's not because sooner or later you'll bump into something and lose energy.

>>7273976
magnetizing a permanent magnet then. No-one likes a nit picker

>>7275188
still wrong

>>7273819
>energy generator
theres no energy being generated, it's not even attached to a load. not that perpetual motion is possible in the first place

>>7274224
Nope, no it doesn't You can easily show this using basic thermo. It isn't a matter of how we build it or what materials we use or how much research is done, conservative forces will always work the same way. This is not an engineering problem, it's a theoretical physics problem.

>>7275194
ok kid

>>7275216
you can construct a magnet from a theoretical wire with some lossless electrons and it still wouldn't work.

still a conservative field. magnets aren't magic batteries

>>7273578

thermodynamics laws that have been proven in each experiment say:

whenever you try to do something, some energy is wasted in undirected motion or displacement of matter, kinetically, or within some potential field.

so every thing set in motion, tends to stay in motion, but will also tend to lose energy.

this is also why most tv series only go 0 to 7 seasons.

>>7275229
>construct a magnet from a theoretical wire

>>7273601

What?

You realize you could randomly go through our system in a straight line a billion times and the probability of hitting anything is zero?

>>7276203

You realize you're an idiot who doesn't know what the words "zero" or "perpetual" mean? You realize there is no completely empty space anywhere? You realize gravity and light exist?

>>7273589
Gravity doesn't just stop when you get far enough away from something

Why are people so vehemently against the idea that we can convert natural forces to useful work at very high efficiency?

Newsflash: We already have a perpetual motion-like energy generation system. It's called the Hydrologic cycle and dams with generators.

>>7276771
>Why are people so vehemently against the idea that we can convert natural forces to useful work at very high efficiency?

Who do you think is against that?

>Newsflash: We already have a perpetual motion-like energy generation system. It's called the Hydrologic cycle and dams with generators.

That's not a perpetual machine. It is powered by the sun.

>>7276783
>That's not a perpetual machine. It is powered by the sun.

>perpetual motion-like

>like

Go see a shrink about your autism.

>>7276794

What does "perpetual motion like" mean and why are you talking about it as if it is the same thing, i.e. relevant to a thread about perpetual motion, then getting mad when someone says it isn't?

I think all disagreement would stop on this matter if people stopped using the word "perpetual".

There are people who get hung up on words and then ignore the essence of what the other person is saying.

>>7273578
Yes. Universe.

>>7276203
>what is dust
>what is solar wind
>what is cosmic microwave background radiation
Look up GZK limit.

>>7276801
No, we just like using the most technically accurate definition of words. The term "perpetual motion machine" has come to mean two things. The first is a machine that moves indefinitely without any external energy input. This is impossible because no matter how evacuated and isolated your system is, there will always be some form of energy loss in it. The second meaning is a machine that produces work indefinitely without any external energy input. This kind of machine violates the first and second laws of thermodynamics, and is doubly impossible.

4chan is a website full of tech literate nerds right?
Then why the fuck is the science and maths board
>a) slow as fuck
>b) full of popsci "when will warp drives be made?" discussion
>c) full of retarded questions that a 15 year old would ask?

>>7276825
There is a third (the most common) you're conveniently leaving out:

A machine that runs for a long period of time without external input of energy and produces more energy than is used to create it and set it in motion.

>>7276832
>tech literate nerds
Not really. There's no barrier to entry here.

>>7276794
Hydrological cycle is not any more "perpetual motion-like" than anything powered by solar panels or even fucking oil.

>>7276825
There is a third (the most common) you're conveniently leaving out:

A machine which runs for a relatively long period of time considering the energy used to set it in motion, kept in motion by nothing more than its own prior movement, the resilience of its parts, and natural forces such as gravity and magnetism, and which produces more energy than was used to create it and set it in motion, not including the natural energy/forces that aided in its creation and were essentially free to its manufacturer.

>>7276867
I think you're making a point against your own argument.

>>7276873
>7276873
If it is producing more energy than it uses why would it ever stop?

>>7276878
>produces more energy than was used to create it and set it in motion

Does not mean what you just said.

>>7276877
I don't have an argument
I'm simply calling bullshit on "perpetual motion-like" which is a fucking cop out expression that means nothing.
Literally anything powered by the sun fits the same slot as hydro cycle, which means you associate perpetual motion with things that are very much not perpetual like oil power or solar power.

>>7276880
If it is producing energy why can't you use that energy to keep it running so it keeps producing net energy? Either way the math doesn't work out for you

I don't really get why you are arguing that some special case of free energy exists, its retarded that you can be proven wrong by a high school autist and you still want to argue on sci

>>7276886
>If it is producing energy why can't you use that energy to keep it running so it keeps producing net energy?

You probably can, depending on the particular machine.

>I don't really get why you are arguing that some special case of free energy exists

Not free energy, but rather converting natural energy to useful work within a system that also uses natural energy to keep itself going.

>>7276898
Except you cannot extract energy from permanent magnets in any useful way.

>>7276901
I never said it had to be purely magnets. You can definitely make gravity work for you. It seems to just give itself with little or no price tag.

>>7273578

Yeah. We already have a perpetual motion machine. It's carrying a golden record and a picture of humanity.

>>7276921
1 - 2 billion years isn't perpetual though

>>7276913
How would such a machine work?

Is this vid showcases real perpetual motion?
I'm aware that theoretically, there should be some energy loss in every system that will lead them to stop.

So why this things seem to work?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=287qd4uI7-E

>>7273578
Time/Space is in perpetual motion. This is fact:

So that means matter can be made, and currently is being made every picosecond, the big bang doesnt just stop, Still this matter cannot be destroyed, just can be transformed

Still you cannot substract eternal energy from this system, because the creation rate is in such small scale and quanta unmeasurable that currently is energetically unviable for our technology

>>7276944
I mean, minus the train thing. i really don't know why it's in this vid

>>7276921
>Yeah. We already have a perpetual motion machine. It's carrying a golden record and a picture of humanity.

What is your definition of "perpetual motion machine" that that would qualify? It certainly won't function forever. It isn't moving at a constant velocity or a constant direction (because gravity exists). And it's gradually being eroded by particle collisions. So...

>>7276944
>Is this vid showcases real perpetual motion?

No.

>>7276957
You haven't answered the second question.

>"I'm aware that theoretically, there should be some energy loss in every system that will lead them to stop.

So why this things seem to work?"

>>7273578

NO YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE

NOT FUCKING YOURS

>>7276960
>So why this things seem to work?"

Because they are powered.

>>7276944
First one: small impeller in the base of the cone
Second one: centre of mass of cone is moving downwards. Either that or perspective trick.
Everything else: hidden motor
V = mgh should convince you that none of those work.

>>7273578
FUCK NO IT VIOLATES THE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS U FUCKING PLEB PERIOD PERIOD DOUBLE TRIPLE PERIOD