/sci/ - Science & Math

>>7224545
pls be true

>>7224562
The posts on the NASA forum are legit at least.

But it'll need further testing. They have to be able to reproduce it.

>>7224545
No, stop spreading this crap you gullible retard..

>>7224567
It is true you piece of smoking shit.

Extraordinary claims with little evidence from a ridiculous lab.

>>7224676
What are you talking about you raging dumb faggot. If something is provocative enough, tugs on my heart strings, and it is in the news, then it's real dammit

>>7224680
Like faster than light neutrinos?

>>7224681
Fuck yes motherfucker.

They're trying in a complete vaccum to see if itf not an error actually

>>7224545
This emdrive fits every definition of bullshit since it's conception.
But it might actually work.
Real warp bubbles?
I'm conflicted like never before.

>>7224730
Nothing to do but watch and wait. AFAIK no official statement has been released.

>>7224545
"look ma, I accidentally discover sparks by banging two rock together, i is smart!!!"

>>7225641
Even if the project has been beset by quackery every step of the way, it's not impossible that they're stumbling around some novel phenomena. If their results can't be explained by sloppy lab work, then better labs will explore it.

Fairly interesting so far. 3 independent labs (NASA, China, EU) have reported some force being generated. They don't know how using conventional methods and this may explain it. I am excited to see what they fond out. This got more credibly then most science claims these days.

>>7224691
Bro dip: they weren't actually moving faster than <span class="math">c[/spoiler]

fakeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

>>7224730
Repeat with me, reaction-less propulsion system with space time bubbles as byproduct.
Even if it works as it seems the thing is not very scientific needs more testing.

You realize most discoveries were not what the original research was searching for, right?

>>7226204
stop not contributing and go cry into your onahole

Note that NASAspaceflight isn't a NASA website. It's just a (good) website and forum on space news.

how can we go faster than light when human beings aren't tachyons?

to being to go FTL we must terraform our own bodies into tachyons and this is impossible

>>7225878
Who cares?

>>7224545
Well, looks like we'll be travelling the stars in less than 5 years.

>>7226261

Move a bubble of spacetime with the ship inside of it. The ship does not exceed C relative to the space it's in. "To the universe", it's standing still. You're just moving spacetime faster than C relative to surrounding spacetime, which physics does not forbid.

>>7226319

>not accounting for protection against radiation and asteroids

never happening in our lifetime either way

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/04/evaluating-nasas-futuristic-em-drive/

Contributing.

>>7226516
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36313.0

>>7226516
>>7226517

So what do we have so far:

3 independent tests by 3 different countries have results that indicate the EmDrive is producing thrust in an atmosphere
1 NASA test in a vacuum, which may address concerns about outside convection causing the thrust
Another NASA test that shows the EMDrive may be warping space, at least in an atmosphere.
NASA is going to test for spacetime distortions in a vacuum this summer

This EMDrive seems to be holding up against skepticism fairly well. Hopefully more labs can confirm the NASA tests. This is such a huge discovery for mankind if this pans out. I wonder if both the warping of spacetime and the thrust generation is true, does that mean we could have FTL warp travel?

So does this mean an interconnection between quantum tunneling and vaccum energy that nets zero by warping spacetime? I'm confused. Could this potentially lead to a real unified field theory?

>>7227087
People are building these in their homes:
http://imgur.com/a/GoNJS
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4PCfHCM1KYoTXhSUTd5ZDN2WnM&usp=sharing

>>7226261
Not if you go with based Alcubierre's theory.
You change the space around you, not you.

>>7224545
>http://www.inquisitr.com/2048998/emdrive-nasa-may-have-just-accidentally-developed-warp-drive/

>trusting pop sci
>ever

What are you, retarded?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSnU_LKi5vs

>>7227108
You can't just throw big words together and act like you know what you're talking about on a science board, buddy.

Wonder if this is the result of the guy in building 14 in Houston.

>>7224545

To anyone who's more interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKTgNCGhq9Y

Volume warning at the beginning

>In the meantime, NASA has been working on the EmDrive, a device that produces microwaves to generate thrust and requires no fuel to be consumed as a propellent
That alone is really interesting. What would an EmDrive driven launch look like?

>>7226296
The truth, scientists, rational people, etc...

>>7227591
It would look exactly the same as all rocket launches do today.

The drive is only good once in space since it produces force in the 0.5-1 N/kW range (newtons per input power).

>>7227591
Something sitting on the ground. Thrust is very low even if it works, and it will not be able to get off Earth without absurd improvements.

That is, assuming it works in the first place, which has yet to be decided.

I imagine conventional rockets would put it in space

Usually from theory to practice. Quite the opposite in this case.

>>7224545
I came to /sci/ just to see what the fuck was up with this

it's all over ever pop science news site, and yet it sounds like bullshit.

can anyone here poke holes in it like /sci/ did for the ftl neutrino experiment?

>>7227844
how many anomalous empirical results have caused theorists to lose their shit in the history of physics?

seems to me it's happened more than theory being proven empirically.

>>7227861
So far, it's standing up to what people throw at it. Obviously pop sci and social media are making giant claims like "FASTER THAN LIGHT TRAVEL IN THE NEXT 10 YEARS" and shit like that, but if everything keeps checking out with further testing, we very well could have discovered a way to move much faster in space.

>>7227865
You're right. I was just caught up in the moment, if and when this thing actually makes it through this phase. Doing good so far anyway.

>>7226261
tachyons exist only in Star Trek and Death Grips

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htl3XWUhUOM

The question to ask after "does it work" is "does it scale." If you want to use it for interstellar travel it's got to produce more than just miniscule thrust.

>>7227868
ONLY 20 YEARS AWAY

>>7227948
even if it doesn't scale, it would be enormously advantageous for probes and satellites to have a propellant-free source of thrust

>>7225669
Yea, the fact that multiple, seperated sources managed to reproduce the same thing is pretty clear evidence that "something" curious is going on. Even if its not a warp field, this could be pretty big.

>>7224545
>their
Wasn't developed by NASA

http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/30/8521691/nasa-seemingly-impossible-space-drive-test-succeeds

>tested and works in a vacuum

Enterprise when?

>>7227087
>NASA is going to test for spacetime distortions in a vacuum this summer
>This Summer

If they actually think it's working they could have done it already in a week because how important can this be.

>>7228186
Yeah I'm wondering about that too.

>>7228186
>>7228189
Wait nevermind, Maybe it meant they want to send one up to space to test it.

>>7228186
shit costs money, something that NASA isn't exactly swimming in atm

proposal has to be scrutinized, rig has to be built, etc.

this summer is a pretty rapid time frame, considering

>>7228181
k, Mr. Facebook

it only seemingly violates Newton's 3rd law of motion, no biggie

while the history of physics has seen limits to Newton's laws, this is not something taken lightly. it has to be scrutinized the fuck out of to see if there genuinely is a novel phenomenon at work here.

>>7228181
>http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/30/8521691/nasa-seemingly-impossible-space-drive-test-succeeds

If it were confirmed multiple times to be the kind of effect we're hoping for, the aerospace industries all over the planet will go in tooth and nail battle to make Enterprise happen. Lots of small scale prototypes will emerge within few years. Something concrete to jump start the new golden age of exploration, decade or few. Politics have to change too to allow nuclear reactors in space.

>>7228181
>Enterprise when?

If it were confirmed multiple times to be the kind of effect we're hoping for, the aerospace industries all over the planet will go in tooth and nail battle to make Enterprise happen. Lots of small scale prototypes will emerge within few years. Something concrete to jump-start the new golden age of exploration, decade or few. Politics have to change too to allow nuclear reactors in space.

>>7228206
>Politics have to change too to allow nuclear reactors in space.

are reactors really restricted? I know thermonuclear devices are (RIP in peace Project Orion). NASA has been using thermoelectric generators fueled by plutonium since the 60s

>>7228181
The First Enterprise was built in space because it wasn't capeable of takeoff / landing.

As I remember.

>>7228222
first human built vessel capable of ftl was the Phoenix, which launched from Earth using a conventional chemical rocket

Assuming this is true and in the next few months more and more research agrees with these results, why shouldn't I drop my career and start studying physics?

>>7228213

Not really restricted, but obviously lots and lots of bureaucracy involving safety concerns.

>>7228239
Because they will need people who worth nothing and can die for a test ride.

>>7227861
>I came to /sci/ just to see what the fuck was up with this
This

it's been popping up over several boards, alot of people are excited about it

>>7228315
scientists are excited about it

>>7228202
Newton's 3rd law doesn't 'have limits', it is false.
Momentum isn't conserved, the energy-momentum tensor is.
Newton's 3rd law is violated in almost every single experiment of particle physics iirc

Don't think in principles which are many centuries old because they are likely to only be approximations of more accurate phenomena

>>7228186
>setting up incredibly complex tests
>finding the appropriate experts who may already be engaged in other research
>getting grants or scrounging up other money to hire assholes to build the thing
>getting permission to fuck around with a giant microwave emitter
And you're bitching that they're going to be doing it in a month or two? Jesus, man.

>>7228356
> Newton's 3rd law doesn't 'have limits', it is false.
> principles which are many centuries old because they are likely to only be approximations of more accurate phenomena

>>7228202
>>7228356
Look, I'm just a Biologist/Ecologist, so pardon me if I'm misunderstanding physics here.
>every action has equal and opposite reaction
>therefore, to move foreward, something must move back
>typically spacecraft achieve this with high-velocity exhaust from rocketfuel or compressed gasses
>this, instead of using mass, uses energy in the form of microwaves
>but mass and energy are the same thing
>so it's also just throwing mass behind it, albeit not a lot of it because of the conversion ratio
so besides this being way less effective or providing way less thrust, I don't quite understand the issue. What am I missing here?

>>7228372
What's wrong with what I said?
Anyone who has gone further into mechanics than Newtonian Mechanics knows that Newton's 3rd is only a consequence of conservation of momentum, which is itself a consequence of conservation of the conservation of energy-momentum.

If you want to go further you can simply say that all of the 'old' conservation laws (i.e: energy, momentum, angular momentum) are consequence of Lorentz invariance symmetry.

The following independent tests have been performed for the EmDrive.

>A test at 2500 W of power during which a thrust of 750 millinewtons was measured by a Chinese team at the Chinese Northwestern Polytechnical University.
>A test at 50 W of power during which a thrust of 50 micronewtons was measured by Eagleworks at the Johnson Space Center at ~760 Torr of pressure. (Summer 2014)
>A test at 50 W of power during which a thrust of 50 micronewtons was measured by Eagleworks at the Johnson Space Center at ~5.0×10−6 torr or pressure. (Early 2015)
> A test at 50 W of power during which an interferometer (a modified Michelson device) was used to measure the stretching and compressing of spacetime within the device, which produced initial results that were consistent with an Alcubierre drive fluctuation.

All these tests were conducted with a control device that did not produce thrust.

>>7228396
st #1 was conducted at the direction of lead researcher Juan Yang. She tested the device at several power levels and frequencies using the same equipment used to test Ion Drives. The given result above was the largest result produced. Her team estimated that the total measurement error was less than 12%.
http://www.emdrive.com/yang-juan-paper-2012.pdf
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/04/evaluating-nasas-futuristic-em-drive/

Tests number 2 and 3 were performed multiple times, changing direction of the device and observing a corresponding change in the direction of force. They were not especially careful about controlling for ALL variables however, mostly owing to the lack of funding for the project. The positive tests have resulted in more funding becoming available, although it is still very, very little, and possibly not enough to explain where the error occurred if the measurement is error of some kind.

Test #4 was performed, essentially, on a whim by the research team as they were bouncing ideas off each other, and was entirely unexpected. They are extremely hesitant to draw any conclusions based on test #4, although they certainly found it interesting.

The Eagleworks team has been able to dedicate very little hardware towards this experiment, as there has been almost no dedicated funding for this experiment. The lack of funding is related to how outlandish the claims are to those who understand physics very well, and the lack of adequate explanation on the math behind the devices from the inventors.

>I'll live long enough to see retards be sent out to who knows fucking where

Killing myself tomorrow

>>7228403
No dude, you have to be alive to see what host of symbiotic agents they come back with.

I can't tell if this thread is being remade constantly or if I keep forgetting about this thread and keep mistaking it for a completely new thread on the topic. I mean it is 2 days old.

>>7228403
I hope I'm long enough to see us begin long-term colonization of other bodies in the solar system.

I want the beginning for the survival of the human species outside of Earth to begin.

>>7228387
Glad you're interested in this despite it not being your field!
Tbh I think the article is pretty shitty, there's not much to get from it.

I don't know if there's really anything concrete behind this, does anyone have links to the actual papers?

Might be that physicists are only being prudent about it given that we don't know anything about it yet. If anything I hope this is not another Opera experiment.

>>7228407
That's exactly what's making me so petrified

>>7228410
I want to be a part of it.

But shit will probably collapse before then.

I really hope this isn't a mistake and that something new has actually been discovered.

Experimental results in physics have stagnated for too long, I hope this will allow us to improve/disprove our current theories.

>universe is ~14 billion yrs old
>life on earth is only 3.6 billion yrs old, humans only alive for 250K yrs
>there could be many of other civilizations out there more advanced than we are
>some could be billions of years more advanced than us, even few hundred million years would make them absurdly more advanced than we are
>they discover this warp technology early on
>send self replicating Von Neumann probes to billions of sectors of universe using warp bubbles

Kind surprised this hasn't happened and we haven't seen anything yet. If it was really possible to exceed speed of light, then warp probes would be everywhere wouldn't they

>>7228429
Why do you assume a species would expand outward rather than retreat inward?

>>7228429
We don't know if life exists elsewhere, we don't know how far they may be from us, we don't know when they would have been created if they exist and when they would be able to construct such technology.
Many life forms may exist and simply not be interested by us, or not be able to detect us, etc...

Too many questions if we start investigating this subject with no additional knowledge

>>7228429
Maybe there would, maybe there wouldn't. The problem is we base all that stuff off of human logic, which might not correlate with another species' logic, you know?

btw I am by no means an expert in any of this

>>7228435
good point. maybe they would simply become smaller and denser like our electronics.

still, warp bubbles might be good for collecting resources.

I kind of wonder if you could make a warp bubble around a star and transport it to your location. Like moving stars around to fuel a civilization

>>7228442
also wonder if you can move a black hole around by making warp bubble just outside event horizon

>>7224567
lmao fuck off with your pessimism

>>7228442
>maybe they would simply become smaller and denser like our electronics.
Andromeda Strain has an interesting riff on this.

>>7228429
maybe we're first

somebody has to be first

this is probably just sensationalized news
;_;

>>7228181
more like Destiny when?

>sgu fandom trash

>>7228475
The "FASTER THAN LIGHT TRAVEL DISCOVERED" titles are sensationalized, but if this stuff holds up to their testing, we very well could have the first steps of warp drive technology within our grasp.

>>7228470
Repeat after me:
"What is the likelihood in a universe that is almost 14 billion years old?"

We /could/ be the first in the milky way, and that's a small could. Also, it's likely that everything else out there that is significantly advanced has transitioned to technological forms of life.

>but why don't we see them
1) http://accelerating.org/articles/transcensionhypothesis.html
2) Filter
3) Ants next to a highway

>>7228485
>Sufficiently Advanced Civilizations May Invariably Leave Our Universe
>Leave Our Universe

That's enough science for today. Goodnight.

What would happen if you put a Warp Bubble inside a Warp Bubble?

Would they cancel out? My head hurts thinking about this...

>>7228481
The first step was 20 years ago.
If this is only the second step we got ways to go.

>>7228498
>the first step was 20 years ago

What was the first step then? I'm genuinely curious.

>yfw aliens visit us tomorrow and say that we're ready to join the space council

>>7228564
I've read enough sci fi to know how that is going to turn up.

>>7228564
you have to make a working prototype first or else the vulcans will just say fuck off

>>7224545
People are jumping all over this, but even if this is legit we aren't getting anywhere.

The g force would literally kill us.

>>7224545
They tested it in a proper hard vacuum and got propulsion
I AM LITERALLY CRYING WITH JOY

>>7224545
This does not mean that alcubierres warp bubble is possible untill we run further tests...
But it does mean we have discovered the next "jet propulsion" of momentum in space...
Like in an rts when your discovering shit...

Wheel, lever, gunpowder, piston, jet propulsion, em drive propulsion (mother fucking check), alcubierre warp drive......etc

>>7228679
Not is we accelerate at a constant speed and maintain it....
Your car going 100km per hour decelerating in 2 seconds to zero has enough g force to kill you..... but we can harness the emdrive to accelerate and decelerate gently woot this 2015 is gonna be great.....
I am sperging all over this new test..... holy hell

>>7228694
Not if*
I am sorry for my bad grammar....good sir this marks the beginning of a new frontier!!

I thought the consensus was that this is near definitely bullshit?

A gigantic shout out to doctor alcubierre, nasa and doctor harrold white.......truly masters of space and time.....

Here is all the patent information if you want to have a go at building one yourself!!

http://www.reddit.com/user/Arzu1982

Yes the consensus was that but that was before todays test... the hard vacuum test......

>>7228703
Doctor Harold White.....
Jesus christ humanities leader of space travel will be named Doctor White.....
Ahaha holy shit its like a bad scifi script come true!!!

>>7228703
Well, if legit I'll have to remember this day for a good long while. Really suspicious this is gonna be like that cold fusion though. Simply too good to be true.

>>7228688
This is true.....but that still means we have now the motor than can accelerate to one tenth luminal speed safely....the emdrive is godlike.....

>>7228679
You have no fucking idea about the theory behind warp engines, do you?

Where are you guys getting all this info from?

>>7228717
Hey give him a break we should be celebrating!!! This is the break we have all been waiting for!!! Guys there is a cloud of 18 octillion liters of raspberry scented ethanol flying in space ripe for collection!!!

>>7228719
I will pass you it directly from nasa themselves and info from through their third party subsidiary research group and company!!! Plus the media reports of the hard vacuum and the patent!

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36313.1

>>7228728

Here is the patent

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=Emdrive&OS=Emdrive&RS=Emdrive

>>7228722
That's probably dissipated by now, considering we are seeing it from literally millions of years ago.

However there probably is a coffee nebula.

>>7228730

And the actually valid research hype

http://io9.com/new-test-suggests-nasas-impossible-em-drive-will-work-1701188933

>>7228733
I know.....but you know what they say where there is one 18 octillion liter cloud of alcohol there might be another!!!

>>7228734
Again literally in tears.....

>>7227844
Not at all true. The typical progress is experiment and then theory to explain it. The only time I can think of this being backwards is Maxwell's Equations

>>7228739
Nasa developes emdrive
Organovo developes the organ printer
Cyberdyne developes the robot suit
Darpa developes movie type robots

Shits gotten real

Also organovo can perform a thing called meat racking if it prints out animal cells!!
No more killing animals for meat we just clone the organ/muscle not the brain and exercise it on a conductive rack to grow it like a plant with special liquid food!!!

>>7228758
I FORGOT

Oculus makes the first 3d vr headset with specialised lenses

Microsoft and apple buy Primesense and make marker less tracking of nodes possible (kinect, kinect 2)

Univisual Makes the walkmouse a omnidirectional living room sized treadmill with no restraints with the runmouse coming out as soon as anyone with 10,000 dollars makes the order.....

Then siggrapph with their air walls let you touch holograms made by using a wall of special emmiters.....

>>7228766
The holodeck....

>>7228429
Apparently, a billion years ago there were not enough heavy elements and the background radiation was really dangerous for life. Most likely, we are either one of the the first intelligent life forms in this universe or aliens just get comfy around their star.

>>7228496
You can probably do some crazy stuff by changing the form of the negative density area. Perhaps even travel backwards in time. Good thing I have a list of lottery numbers on my phone.

>>7228778
0_0
The possibillities are endless....
Maybe you go back in time...
Then doc browns solution about timelines being altered doesnt sound so dumb....
In this timeline you cross bubbles and dissapear....
We never hear from you agin and are sectioned off as a different dimention to you....(not destroyed just sectioned)
Then you go back in time alter things and create a new dimention....one where jesus wasnt betrayed
Or hitler was killed successfully....
GREAT SCOT THINGS JUST GOT EXCITING AGAIN

So this is actually pretty legit? I'm sure its far from being "star trek confirmed" but still could significantly increase propulsion for space craft?

>>7228783
This scenario allows you to go back in time and meet yourself and negates othe "you's" from entering the same dimension unless you are all trying really haard in each dimention to fuck with the universe XP

As for the star trek confirmed question....
With this test we have concluded that 1/10th of C is possible....

With alcubierres further experimentation...we are on a lead that may unlock "star trek confirmed"....

>>7228792
One tenth of the speed of light

I seriously doubt the legitimacy of this.
Sounds a lot like FTL neutrinos kerfuffle. Obviously some very passionate Star Trek fans want it to real; possibly blinding them to error.

>>7228792
To be more specific with alcubierres papers and Harold White and co and Nasa's leadership

>>7224562
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>>7228440

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36313

>>7228796
29,979,245.8 meters per second....

*drool*

>>7228785
No. Hype is running amok in this thread. Looks like someone linked /sci/ on some reddit thread or something.

>>7228810
29979.2458km/s
*drool intensifies....*

How far is the moon?

ATTENTION WARP DRIVE RETARDS

Please read this article written by Dr. Jose Rodal, a key contributor to the thread on the NASA spaceflight forum thread on EmDrive and well respected aerospace engineer, with a PhD from MIT, decades working in R&D and a few patents to his name. If you read the thread on the forum you can tell he is someone Paul March pays heed to.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/04/evaluating-nasas-futuristic-em-drive/

That article summarizes all of EmDrive. All of it.


Didn't see mention of a warp drive?

That's because there is no fucking warp drive. The regulars in that thread were face palming at the retards eating that shit up.

Paul Seaburn at the Mysterious Universe was the first one to mention warp drive. He's also written such hard hitting science articles like

http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2015/05/ufo-seen-over-nepal-as-mt-everest-shrinks/
http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2015/04/ufos-return-to-chilean-copper-mines/

Two reasons why he might have. 1. Dr. White is involved on an experiment to measure space warping, but that's an entirely different project unrelated to EmDrive. Meaning he Googled White and put two and two together without thinking 2. He's a retard. The science equivalent of having your 4 year old nephew sit at the adults table, and later asking him what the adults were talking about.

This is what you get for getting your news from second hand sources. Even worse are the "reporters" citing Seaburn's article, eating shit just to process it into more shit.

>>7228822
Sweet triple dubs btw
And as much as I want to say it was hype the hard vacuum test is one of the most stringent tests that nasa can perform and the engine passed FTW

>>7228772
I would love to be an Ancient.
>"Oh Ancient One, please share you wisdom with us."
"Futa is love, futa is life. Masturbate every day. Do you truly love her if you can't eat her poop ?"

>>7228828
This is what I said....
We discovered emdrive but it may lead us to discovering warp drive :b

>>7228701
maybe a week ago

>>7228823
384400 km earth to moon....

Going at and not accounting for acceleration or deceleration at 29979.2458km/s...... you get to moon in 12 seconds.... at 1/10th luminal......fucking hell this emdrive ROCKS

>>7228850
How efficient is it?

>>7228864
If I remember correctly it generated 1300 Newtons force for 100mw of power

is this sci fi joke general
can we go to alpha centauri and get the paperwork from the galactic hyperspace planning council now

>>7228875
Yes

>>7228695
it's really starting to look like it does

>>7228828
Pic related
The reason it's not in the article is because it's unconfirmed but being tested by three separate entities

>>7228879
4 my team is currently looking into it...

Yes the irish team truly does want to use all the great Ideas and get drunk where no man has drunk before!
We shall reach an alcohol quadrant and reunite at last with our bretheren ethanol based life forms!

>>7228879
It's not unconfirmed. Someone just said it in passing and now it's being taken as fact.

This comic has never been more true.

>>7228884
Have you built one yet?

>>7228892
Wait I think we are both confused....
Guy with cat picture... are you talking about the emdrive or the warpdrive?

One does 1/10th light and is real
The other does faster than light...
?

>>7228901
>One does 1/10th light and is real
I see this mentioned everywhere. Where is this limit coming from?

>>7228895
We are currently too drunk to do so
XP

Nah I was joking about the Irish but yeah your right the americans, chinese and europeans are all in a hype right now....I have never seen such passion since the atom bomb!

>>7228906
How about you read the one legitimate article in this entire thread?

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/04/evaluating-nasas-futuristic-em-drive/

And it hasn't done 0.1c, it's theorized to do so.

>>7228906
Its top acceleration that nasa assumes will not explode the ship

>>7228908
>americans, chinese and europeans are all in a hype right now.
You mean the ones on reddit, not the ones with labs and vacuum chambers who can actually build this.

>>7228901
The warp bubbles if they exist are a byproduct of the em drive

>>7228914
Thats a BIG if but at least you understand the if is still there

>>7228908
>We are currently too drunk to do so
I believe you because the rest of your post made absolutely no sense to me. Or maybe it is my autism again.

>I was joking about the Irish
So you are not Irish...? Was that the joke?
>your right the americans, chinese and europeans are all in a hype right now
I am glad I was right, even if I don't remember it. You must be very experienced to remember the old days of the manhattan project with such enthusiasm, huh. So, did you build one yet or was it a joke?

>>7228910
Sorry, too busy filling arrow captchas to read all the shit in this thread. I'll see this one link, though.

Well shit it's a reaction less propulsion system warp bubbles don't seem so far fetched now do they

>>7228911
0.1c is not acceleration though. It's speed.

>>7228916
There is no warp bubble. Some fuck in a 1000+ comment thread says it once and now it's the "mainstream" explanation?

Harold White, the project leader, is still pushing his mutable quantum vacuum theory.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20150006842.pdf

>>7228923
Ah whoops my bad xp

>>7228919
I was joking about the team xp
I have not built one at all I am just some guy sifting through the threads lol

>>7228925
Mutable perhaps but somehow more audible than before....

>>7228910
>Mr. Joosten and Dr. White stated that “a one-way, non-decelerating trip to Alpha Centauri under a constant one milli-g acceleration” from an EM drive would result in an arrival speed of 9.4 percent the speed of light and result in a total transit time from Earth to Alpha Centauri of just 92 years.
I`ve skimmed through the link and this is the only part I found that mentions the speed of light, is this what you are talking about?

>>7228946
No

>>7228910
Dude they mention the warp bubbles in this article FROM NASA
fuck the haters
It's legit

>>7228970
They mention the POSSIBILLITY of warp bubbles.... a solid lead sure but all is speculation till they first buil an emdrive that can into space and then warp experiments based on the emdrive model

>>7228970
Not a hater just saying it like it is...also em drive is awesome too.... someone run me a calculation of the approximate speed of the alpha centuri trip and how long would a manned mission to mine mars take on an emdrive....

>>7228970
1. Jose Rodal doesn't work for NASA, nor is NASASpaceFlight.com affiliated with NASA.
2. No it doesn't.

>>7228976
But this also means all the super condescending haters can fuck off to reddit or wherever they keep them normally.
Oh wait that's here

>>7228980
7,515.1990648144 seconds to mars if that whole alpha centuri thing harold white said was true...but this does not take into account acceleration times or deceleration times

>>7228989
Whats the fastest a human could resonably accelerate to 29,979 km/s without exploding into G force soup?

>>7228980
Someone said earlier in this thread that Alpha Centauri would take only 92 years. Mars would take about 3 and a half hours.

>>7228996
thats assuming youre at max speed straight out of orbit.
the acceleration of the EM drive is relatively low, but its max speed is relatively high. Getting to mars would take probably around 60 days.

>>7228996
0_0 realy? Holy fuck how did you figure that out? Did you use ratios?

>>7229004
Ok hang on....what is the maximum comfortable acceleration a human can take?

>>7229007
I think four g's or so. People start passing out around ten.

>>7229007
Fucking irrelevant. The thing products thrusts at the micronewton level.

Also to estimate travel times, take the thrust they measured, take the mass of Apollo 11. Then calculate the time. Don't just do v=d/t like a retard.

earth to Saturn in 9 months.

>>7229016
Still shorter than my uncle works in the oil rigs xp

>>7229013

Are you sure this will produce only micronewtons? I cant decipher the lingo on this Q and A....

How can the EmDrive produce enough thrust for terrestrial applications?
A. The second generation engines will be capable of producing a specific thrust of 30kN/kW. Thus for 1 kilowatt (typical of the power in a microwave oven) a static thrust of 3 tonnes can be obtained, which is enough to support a large car. This is clearly adequate for terrestrial transport applications.
The static thrust/power ratio is calculated assuming a superconducting EmDrive with a Q of 5 x 109. This Q value is routinely achieved in superconducting cavities.
Note however, because the EmDrive obeys the law of conservation of energy, this thrust/power ratio rapidly decreases if the EmDrive is used to accelerate the vehicle along the thrust vector. (See Equation 16 of the theory paper). Whilst the EmDrive can provide lift to counter gravity, (and is therefore not losing kinetic energy), auxiliary propulsion is required to provide the kinetic energy to accelerate the vehicle.

>>7229034
Wait did this just say it could lift 3 tonnes on the electrical power it takes a microwave???

>>7229034
I honestly wouldn't put too much stock into what Shawyer has to say. He invented the device, but quite frankly he has no idea how it works.

http://johncostella.webs com/ shawyerfraud.pdf

>>7229041
Put a dot before com and remove the spaces. Retarded as fuck spam detection.

>>7229041
Got it... but still even if it produces a quarter of what he says... but you know what they say....make the lie big....they will never expect a lie to be massive...
- some politician/conman

>>7229041
Roger J. Shawyer is an aerospace engineer and a director of United Kingdom ( UK)-based Satellite Propulsion ... good enough for me....he seems like a man with credentials....if he is trying to cheat us he is doing a terrible job at protecting his ass

>>7228833
>tfw humans are first
>we're going to be the hyper-advanced caretakers of the universe
>we're the ancient ones

>>7229050
Read the pdf.

>>7228874
That's alotta newtons for a hired accelerator.

>>7228925
Every other explanation would violate Newton's third law. And seeing how it's proven by 3 independent laboratories that it creates thrust (also proven in a hard vacuum chamber), it's most logical explanation is either 3 measuring errors or an actual warp drive.

>>7224562
This

>>7228828
This is correct. For those of you thinking warp bubbles etc, just no. Dr. White is working on two separate projects... Q thrusters and warp drives, and the thrust being talked about here is from the q-thruster. The space warping test is still in progress and is totally separate from this.

On a side note, q-thrusters won't catapult us to the stars like the warp drive would... but they will certainly make traveling around the solar system easier. The q-thruster, if it works, is exactly what we would need to make traveling around the solar system practical... and that's a good start.

wait a tic
i thought that nasa was still doing an internal experiment to verify if the casimir effect can mimic negative energy enough to be usable for an alcubierre drive thingy....and that it would be a very long experiment with a lot of potential false positive since the effect is so miniscule

what's this about laser beams causing the warping?

or is this a non-alcubierre system?

>>7228828
>>7229077
>1. Dr. White is involved on an experiment to measure space warping, but that's an entirely different project unrelated to EmDrive.

oh, all is explained

i really want to see some data on those warping experiments, i wonder if there are any tantalizing hints in there or its still all noise

>>7229073
You are right it buys us time to mine for resources and materials and set up space camps so we dont get one dhotted by an asteroid till we can buil up enough resources to go to alpha...or invent an efficient motor that will take us to alpha...

i thought that q thruster shit was all a hoax

So hypothetically if this worked, does it not emit any sort of emission etc? So a hover car could float around without burning stuff or chopping anything?

>>7229055
Why is Nasa endorsing him?

>>7229082
Also, people don't really realize how much our technology will change as we need to be able to adapt to changing levels of gravity. Beginning to colonize our solar system would jump-start a revolution in the necessary sorts of technology for inter-stellar survivability and sustainability.

>>7229096
Are you a scientist?

>>7229099
Do I need to be? I'm a mathematician. I think my post is supported by common sense, wouldn't you agree? One only needs to look at human history, and how technology always grows when a demand arises.

>>7226089
>Even if it works as it seems the thing is not very scientific needs more testing.
How is cutting edge propulsion engineering not scientific? your statement is illogical.

>>7229112
^_^
No you just sound like someone smart is all....

>>7229112
Have you ever heard of concept of meat racking and the company called organovo?

>>7229130
Oh, haha. Thanks then. I thought you were going to pull the classic /sci/, "I disagree with you, your field is less applicable than my field, ergo my disagreement implies your incorrectness."
>>7229131
I haven't read about it. Any articles you would recommend I look at?

>>7229130
>>7229131
Why do these posts put me on edge?

>>7229153
Here organovo are organ cloners based in california.... they use biological stemcells to clone tissue etc....

Now meatracking is a proposed method of creating muscle tissue of animals and feeding it with special nutrient solution/plasma/blood and exercising it while it is alive on a metal rack through electrical shock in order to keep the meat tough or tender....
Theeat can then be harvested like a living warmblooded plant....0_0

But it can be used in space....
And it would stop animal abuse

>>7229157
http://www.organovo.com/

>>7229161
No brain
All gain

>>7229161
>>7229163
It looks pretty interesting. It seems contrived to replicate animal meats, though, if we could just concoct some sort of paste that covers more ground (nutritionally). Why limit ourselves to what evolution has been able to chock up? I'm sure nutritional augmentation will come as the tech becomes more developed.

>>7229174
Nutritious paste....has it ever been done?

>>7229174
Oh well at least we have a method thats probably going to be on time for solar system colinisation xp

We wont have to deal without our beef burgers and steaks in space

>>7229175
I think so. But the value of this Organovo thing is it being harvestable. So, how could the process be augmented to make meats that are harvestable still, but have qualities unlike the original animal?

>>7229182
What qualities do you wish to remove?

>>7229087

You still need to create a force to counter gravity continuously. The data so so suggests the emDrive doesn't generate enough force to be practical on Earth. However, it is great in space to cover large distances.

>>7229184
We could remove the excess fats. We could try to use genes from other species that would produce certain vitamins. We aren't a hunter-gatherer species any longer, and in space the more nutrition that can be gotten per unit of currency is going to determine the types of foods that are cultivated on ships. At least in the beginning, I'm sure.

When ships sailed around the world in the sixteenth century, they stored foods that had long shelf lives and compromised nutritional necessities (after all, salted pork has a far longer shelf life than oranges). However, with this harvesting Organovo deal, as well as modern methods of preservation, shelf life is replaced by nutrition per dollar. I think that eventually we will have the technology to simply manufacture certain nutrients in a raw form (rather than reducing them from living things), which will perhaps supersede the topic we are discussing.

>>7229053
>you'll still be dead
Why even keep going?

>>7229195
Because there isn't much else to do with limited time and resources, so why not see how far we can survive as a metaorganism?

>>7229191
Clever idea The animal cells of several types that are used can be varied gecko snake ostritch etc and for what you put in you get out so the fat is removed when the cells are exercised or electrocuted also the plasma can be enriched with low fat high quality food

>>7229196
And who knows maybe well find aliens adventure love and maybe even god out there... or purpose

>>7229174
>if we could just concoct some sort of paste that covers more ground (nutritionally)
>>7229175
Probably because like everything involving a kitchen, whatever sounds good on paper doesn't always translate into something palatable

Now some sort of intravenous stimpack, that'd be interesting

>>7229232
>needles for food
fuck that

Why're there so many fags in this thread? Why is cloned meat being discussed instead of emdeive?

On topic question: suppose this turns out to be true and it does generate a warp bubble. When traveling using it since your space time isn't being warped directly, if you traveled far away and back would you still be on the same earth time? Ex: going to alpha Centauri and back, if you left in 2016 and turned around to come back would it still be 2016 + adjusted travel time?

>>7229240
Supposedly you would be traveling back through the photons that you originally came through so yes you would go back to the exact same time a month is a month

>>7229240
Also I would like to add I was talking about the cloned meat because it is one of the ways in which we can still enjoy a decent burger if we do get on an EM Drive or a warp drive

>>7229251
You can't fight aliens on an empty stomach

>>7229248
I know this is going to sound stupid but think of Goku's Instant Transmission

>>7229188
Unless it scales with additional power. If it does, just strap some jumbo EM thrusters to a fission reactor and you've basically got a starship.

>>7229251
>burger
United-statians are so cute.

>>7229234
>taking pure nutrients dissolved into some gel or liquid solvent only to have inefficient bioavailability

don't be a pussy

>>7229261
Kek we can have steak chicken beef lizard ostritch etc too im just using burger as a standard piece of food that is tasty...

>>7229261
I am actually in europe lol

>>7228799
End yourself for responding to every post and NOT saying >all me

>>7229195
Because though dark is the highway, and the peaks distance breaks my heart, for I never shall see it. Still I play my part, believing that what waits for us is the cosmos

>>7228884
http://m.phys.org/news63346824.html

Get ready

>>7228480
more like Firefly when?

>>7229305
Dear god....
Check mate atheists.....there is a god....
And oh he is merciful 0_0

>>7228470
https://youtu.be/lTzLNJqgBvQ?t=990

>>7229313
Uhh... copy and paste the url or you wont get the joke. Embeded video doesnt support timelinks apparently.

The worst part is that we have to wait years. Then we get results that makes my dick diamond hard

>>7228874
No, according to the Chinese experiment (which IMO is a bit fishy) it is ~1N/kW

>>7228799
die in fire

>>7229271
lol

so whats the news then?
that the EMdrive was verified again by nasa?

what new thing did they find out abiut this reactionless drive thing

I posted a link to this story on my facebook, here is a comment left by a friend's older brother;

>They've known plenty since 1900. Tesla prolly knew this.

>And NASA lies. That's all they do. Nobody going to Mars either.

>>7230076
Tell your friend's older brother to go back to inhaling dicks

>>7230089
I've decided to just not try... He's up his own ass.

He keeps spewing off about the Van Allen radiation belts being 100% prohibitive to any sort of extraterrestrial travel despite Van Allen himself denying it.

>>7230092
If there's one thing I hate more than overly optimistic pop sci cunts, it's overly pessimistic cunts.

>>7230092
>space radiation
>dangerious
Seems like your older brother hasn't seen Fantastic Four yet.

>actually unironically taking a memedrive seriously

>>7230276
Begone, leper

>>7228496
You'd have to describe both the inner and outer warp bubbles.

Supposedly the inside bubble would move forward within the larger bubble until it impacted the larger bubble. I don't know enough about either to know if they would merge or pass through each other.

>>7229870
used interferometer inside it for a laugh and found out there's a warp bubble inside it

This is bullshit. I'm embarrassed that people are tripping over themselves and thinking there's anything to this meme popular science nonsense sourced from a NASA fan forum.

I heard they're closer to discovering a time machine, too!

>>7229870
EM drive still works in vacuum is what they found.

The Luddites are still ranting about Newton's third law.

it's fake. you're going nowhere faggot

>>7230404
what the fuck? i was sure that wouldn't pan out

>>7230401
WHAT THE FUCK
macro scale warping? or really minor stuff?

>light travelling faster than light

it doesn't even make any sense

>>7230630
>macro
yes, but that it was not performed in a vacuum.

>>7230643
Neutrinos can travel faster than light, light must therefore do so too as nothing can travel faster than light.

>>7230653
by macro scale i mean like, visible bending of light

>>7230404
"I measured what might be a signal at the threshold of measureability of my measuring device" is not "I confirmed the EM drive works." Given that what was clearly meant as a null device within the original theory they were operating under produce the same level of thrust according to their measurements, it is far more likely there is no real signal than it is that the EM drive works as advertised. This is at best FTL neutrinos all over again, but instead of saying "help find out what we fucked up," they are running around yelling that they have done the impossible and proved the EM drive works by disproving the theory behind its operation.

>>7230682
>by macro scale i mean like, visible bending of light
http://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/33dqdc/that_emdrive_that_everyone_got_excited_about_a/

>>7230700
>[T]he EM Drive’s thrust was due to the Quantum Vacuum (the quantum state with the lowest possible energy) behaving like propellant ions behave in a MagnetoHydroDynamics drive (a method electrifying propellant and then directing it with magnetic fields to push a spacecraft in the opposite direction) for spacecraft propulsion. The NASASpaceflight.com group has given consideration to whether the experimental measurements of thrust force were the result of an artifact. Despite considerable effort within the NASASpaceflight.com forum to dismiss the reported thrust as an artifact, the EM Drive results have yet to be falsified. After consistent reports of thrust measurements from EM Drive experiments in the US, UK, and China – at thrust levels several thousand times in excess of a photon rocket, and now under hard vacuum conditions – the question of where the thrust is coming from deserves serious inquiry.

>>7230707
>light bending 40x higher than atmospheric heating variance

could..
could you actually see it with your naked eye? as a slight fish-eye effect?

>>7230711
>[T]he EM Drive’s thrust was due to the Quantum Vacuum (the quantum state with the lowest possible energy) behaving like propellant ions behave in a MagnetoHydroDynamics drive
This is nonsense. He's treating the quantum vacuum like a plasma for no reason at all.

>>7230717
no idea, but you can try to use the plots on the NASA forums to figure out the dimensions of the observed bubble.

>>7228992

Humans lose consciousness at ~9G's so assuming acceleration to be 100ms-2

v = u + at

29,979 = 100/t

t = 0.003s

that sounds wrong i am probably wrong

>>7230748
v=29,979,000

>>7229191
>We aren't a hunter-gatherer species any longer

Several tribes across the world and at least one race in Southern Africa would like to disagree with you.

Well, the South American ones are slowly getting wiped out thanks to construction workers slaughtering them, but they're still alive...for now.

>>7225641
Yeah it's not like a huge portion of history's great scientific breakthroughs were accidental or anything.

>(via project rho the last time the EM drive was in the news) If the EmDrive actually works, it really and truly is a reactionless drive. Which means it is a weapon of mass destruction that would make the Dinosaur-killer asteroid look like a wet fire-cracker.

Maybe we're all just better off if it works (assuming it works at all) in a more traditional matter.

>tfw US, EU and China will begin to colonize space and form their own space empires
>tfw future is now

>>7230785
Real easy to make.

>yfw Alpha Centauri BB is actually Earth in a parallel universe.

>>7229037
Yes. However that is only for a potential second generation EmDrive, which would use superconductors and be pretty bulky. Also still very much theoretical.

>>7230711
"They can sling bullshit" is more or less what I said.

WE MASSLESS PROPULSION NOW

>>7231009
How is that even remotely related

So when this turns out to be a falty plug or something how sad will everyone be

>Warp

>>7231103
light traveled faster than light
something had to get warped if real

Lets say the emdrive is real and it works, how long would it take to send a probe to the oort cloud?

Somebody explain this for a shit tier computer scientist

>Drive emits microwaves to generate thrust
>This works in vacuum
>Everybody flips his shit

Why, what's so revolutionary about it working in vacuum? If I'm emitting any kind of particles / waves, isn't movement in the opposite direction pretty normal?

>>7231115

9 months to Saturn so ... 2-3 years? What do you want to see out there?

>>7231097
>something
I won't be very much because I don't hold expectations. But I feel lots of people here will cry.

>>7231129
fellow computer scientist

remember the laws of conservation of energy and all that?

This is like if you pushed on the dashboard of your car while sitting in the driver's seat and it moved forward.

>>7231138
Isn't it more like sitting in your care and throwing something out of the back, then the car moves?

Isn't the drive emitting microwaves behind it to generate thrust?

The quantum vacuum/higgs field is everywhere and we are always moving through it. They make it more difficult to move the faster we try to go.

Maybe the Em Drive is coaxing the quantum vacuum/higgs field to do the moving for us.

>>7231140
It's not emitting anything according to them.

>>7231144
oh

well shit

so how does it move

>>7231148

>>7229073
>On a side note, q-thrusters won't catapult us to the stars like the warp drive would... but they will certainly make traveling around the solar system easier. The q-thruster, if it works, is exactly what we would need to make traveling around the solar system practical... and that's a good start.

it would be nice to develop the thing up. Hopefully whats going on now is like the Wright Brothers.

>>7227087
Those experiments don't corroborate each other. The results disagree by a factor of about 1000, depending on the precision of the measurement.

>>7231148
It probably doesn't.

What laypeople might not realize is that physics-overturning results are discovered by scientists every day. They don't make the news like this because the scientists double-check their work instead of bragging about it on Internet forums.

BTW, has anyone even confirmed this Paul March dude on the forum is who he says he is?

>>7231134
I just want to see photos of the oort cloud up close, 2-3 years is pretty awesome if the math is correct.

>>7231177
He is who he says, why?

>>7231185
Paul March here, I'm actually a time traveler living under an assumed name.

The EmDrive is already huge news, warp technology would be insane.

Thread theme:
https://youtu.be/BAzCf0ascW8

>>7231148
nobody knows

initially it was dismissed as atmospheric variance messing up the measurements

so they tested it in a vacuum

and it was still happening

and everyone is freaking out because THIS SHOULDN'T BE POSSIBLE

i can see the complaints to my grandkids now

"back in my day we didnt zip around like bozos warpin about the cosmos like a bunch a hooligans! we drove cars! good old hybrid electric i always say! if it ain't broke don't fix it!"

and then they call me lame and i tell them to get off my space lawn and i take an old man nap.

>>7231369
>2015 was 40 years ago

If this EM drive thing is true then how come my microwave oven doesn't float around every time I heat up my hotpockets?

>>7231437
the microwaves are bouncing around within a very carefully machines cone shape which apparently is the secret sauce of the effect

>>7231441
Why did they even bother doing this experiment if they didn't expect the thrust at all.

>>7231444
it was a hunch and some interesting math backing it up

nobody really expected a result like this

EVE is real?

>>7233074
Eve warp speeds are measured in AU per second.

No eve isn't real.