/sci/ - Science & Math

>>7222065
Not OP, but can someone explain this:

"The Boltzmann brains concept is often stated as a physical paradox. (It has also been called the "Boltzmann babies paradox".[2]) The paradox states that if one considers the probability of our current situation as self-aware entities embedded in an organized environment, versus the probability of stand-alone self-aware entities existing in a featureless thermodynamic "soup", then the latter should be vastly more probable than the former."

(wikipedia)

>>7222175
Basically the chance that an ordered entity can exists in chaos is much larger than the chance that an ordered entity can exist in order. The idea here is that the amount of permutations of the last system is much much lower than the first one, so it's chance is much lower as well (entropy etc.). Basically bullshit since it completely disregards evolution by natural selection and the emergence of entropy fighting systems in general.

>>7222175
In Thermodynamic equillibrium, the position of any particle in the system is truely random. Therefore, states with the particles in very ordered organizations (a Boltzmann Brain) for example, as as likely to happen as any other state (1/inf, so unlikely). However there are many more disordered than ordered states, so order arising from chaos is more unlikely than chaos staying chaos. Given a long enough amount of time, a system in thermodynamic equillibrium will go through every possible state, so the possibility of a Boltzmann Brain appearing in the chaos of the system is non-zero, and there is a state where such a brain appears at any position in the volumn of the system. Further, there is the possiblity of two Brains appearing, which is less than one Brain appearing. The idea was put forward to try and answer the question, how can there be so much order in our universe?

It fails for many reasons. Firstly, a system in thermodynamic equillibrium does not have to be in complete chaos. Black Body Radiation is an example (A star in a box will eventually reach equillibrium with the box, the star will still have order, the radiation filling the rest of the box will be disordered).

Secondly, once a state with order is reached (even a state with an electron rotating around a proton) that order breaks equilibrium in a pure radiation equillibrium. So, any state after the initial creation of that atom will be affected by having an atom and the unequal forces it exerts.

Lastly, and to answer the question is our universe a random state randomly created from thermodynamic equillibrium, imagine two physics books and a person to read them simply appearing in space, just because a selection of atoms were in those positions. Ignoring lack of air, if the person were two read those books, he would expect them not to agree (F = mv vs. F = ma) if they were truely random. That our histories, and books agree is enough to discount random appearence.

>>7222175
>implying we are not in a thermodynamic soup

>>7222222
nice sextuples

>>7222222

>>7222222
checked

>>7222222
Checked

Also, according to QM, even the very early universe not being in complete equillibrium is enough to create the structure we see today. This was not known in Boltzmann's time.

boltzmann is popular for only one thing
S=klogW
disregard the boltzmann brain nonsense, its an intellectual circlejerk

>>7222222

>>7222222
>mfw

Also, of note, the heat death of the universe does no constitute a space in which a Boltzmann Brain can appear.

The thermodynamic equilibrium which our universe is headed towards is different from the one proposed by Boltzmann is a very simple way. The average Energy of a photon in the Boltzmann distribution would need to be very high in order to produce the types of order he suggests (enough to create protons and electron/anti electron pairs, pre-CMB universe levels of heat). Once our universe reachs true thermodynamic equilibrium, protons will have decayed, neutrons will have decayed, all that will exist are electrons, neutrinos, and mostly photons. These photons will have such long wave lengths due to the expansion of space that they will not have enough energy to create matter if they collidge. Also, the "box" will need to be so large that the likelyhood of electrons and neutrinos colliding would be miniscule. In such an equilibrium, no order can be created. No protons will exist, no atoms, just very unenergetic electrons, neutrinos, and photons.

So, Heat Death->New Big Bang isn't possible.

>>7222222
nice dubs!

>>7222287
Well. That's depressing.

>>7222222
I-I don't even know how to call them, 6-uples?

>>7223049
>quality post
>only response is to point out dubs

you are fucking cancer and belong on /b/, where even dubs were banned. ffs.

>>7222222
>In Thermodynamic equilibrium, the position of any particle in the system is truly random

thermodynamics deals with energy, not position. when you do talk about configurations, it is the energy cost of those configurations, rather than the specific geometries themselves, which are of importance. furthermore, your definition is poor. a crystal can be at thermodynamic equilibrium with its immediate surroundings, even though it is nowhere near to the maximal state of entropy for its constituent atoms.

>>7223891
Boltzmann Brains are a concept whch arise from the ideal gas law. In an ideal gas (in which the particles of the gas exert no forces on one another), in equilibrium, the positions of the particles does not matter, and are therefore random. This is what gives rise to the idea in the first place. Obviously, there are more complications when you account for forces between the particles, and what not that the ideal gas law does not deal with.