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/sci/ - Science & Math

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7152521 No.7152521 [Reply] [Original]

Are mirror neurons bullshit?
I'm a casual at neuroscience, but the very idea of a neuron having only one distinct duty, and that duty being as complex as imitation, sounds retarded. Reading up on it, I see some naysayers, but apparently they still teach this at a college level. Shouldn't empathy be a complex process between very many parts of the brain?
Are mirror neurons bullshit?

>> No.7152545

>>7152521
As a wise man once said:

"The picture puzzle pattern door...is you!"

AKA nope. How you perceive reality is how you perceive yourself. What you see is what you get.

>> No.7152551

storage and prediction about external agent dynamics has an enormous evolutionary advantage

high-level sparse representations dealing with this are just an inevitability of the energy-efficient hierarchical organization of the brain

>> No.7152571

>>7152521
>a complex process
requires 'hardware' support

>> No.7153592
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7153592

>>7152551
Well said anon.
I agree.

Of course some individuals are more efficient at this than others,,,

>> No.7153621

>>7152551
Do you think the hierarchical nature is due to energy efficiency, or is the hierarchy central to the algorithms implemented by the system?

>> No.7153626

>>7152521
The original research on mirror neurons was Jaoquin Fuster I believe... and he is completely brilliant. His ideas are complex and if you read them I think you will be with him. However, the concept of a "mirror neuron" is low hanging fruit for very stupid people to grab onto and turn into total nonsense. Even worse, science journalist scum can make a headline out of it.

>> No.7153714
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7153714

>>7153626
Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Are they claiming that the term "mirror neuron" is a tag for neurons that happen to fire under those certain conditions? Or are they claiming that mirror neurons are an actual classification of neurons, each specialized to fire when performing or witnessing a certain action?

The difference may seem silly, but I think it's really important. Mirror neuron being just a term is fine, that means it is like a placeholder until we learn more. If they think it's an actual subsystem, I don't understand why. The existence of mirror neurons, tested with fmri and simple "you do it and then watch him do it" tests, doesn't seem to imply they solely control all of empathy as a disorganized group of individuals. That's like finding a pipe valve in you and your friends basements, and determining from that information that all water sources have valves and operate independently with no oversight. You could see how this would lead us to false conclusions in future hydrology.

>> No.7153721

>>7152545
>quoting a documentary about dmt
jesus, you guys.

>> No.7153818

http://books.wwnorton.com/books/The-Myth-of-Mirror-Neurons/

>> No.7154919

>>7152551

You could write some decent technobabble for science fiction.