/sci/ - Science & Math

>>7137458
They are valid when coarse-grained.
That is, top 10 is def. better than some school ranked 20. But difference between #2 and #4 is usually nothing.

Also, they matter much more for graduate work. In undergraduate, go to a top 20 or 30 place in your field, do well, and you can go anywhere. But the fact is that someone in the top 10 might have it a bit easier than you, but its minimal.

University rankings are not bullshit, but many people's reason for going to college is.

for undergrad it's largely irrelevant unless you're going into a field like investment banking or something that essentially requires you to go to a very prestigious school for anyone to give a shit about you.

from my perspective I'm going to grad school next fall to go for a PhD in an engineering field. I've discussed this with a number of faculty members (all from prestigious unis) and it's a fact that national laboratories and such will especially cater their recruitment efforts towards grads from top 10 schools, and there are many other special career opportunities that come from being in that echelon.

the other thing you must understand is how the rankings are formulated. according to what I was told after asking this same question to profs, large chunks of the ratings come from the number of PhD students, number of publications, and the amount of funding the departments of the schools get or produce. none of that has anything to do with undergrad activity, so for STEM the rankings are meaningless for them. on the other hand, this is far more important for people seeking to go to graduate school because the rankings will be related to the amount of funding available to them.

personally I'm stuck in a rather precarious situation right now that I'm still trying to weigh out. I can stay at Shit State U (ranked in the top 70) with a fellowship working under the best advisor I can possibly ask for with a sick-ass project, or go to a top 10 school also completely covered via an RA under a meh professor with a not as interesting project. Shit State U will better prepare me with the specific experience I need for the career I want to go into, but the top 10 has the name recognition that will open a lot of doors for me at the cost of that. the profs at both schools have a lot of connections, but the one at Shit State U will give 100% god-tier recommendations for me in the future. tough choice and I have less than a month at this point to decide.

Does any of you guys have experience with switching to a top - uni from a "meh" - uni?

I'm currently studying at a top 20 university in germany and am gonna finish my BA degree with 25.

I would like to go to Harvard, Princeton, etc. for my masters and PhD, but how hard will it be to switch?

I'm finishing my undergrad this year. I'm thinking of doing one grad year here and transfer to do my final year at some try hard university. Anyone done anything similar? got any keen insights? Currently doing comp sci in norways top university and pulling As, will I have a hard time getting accepted? Will I get my shit kicked in hard if I manage to get into a university like princeton or MIT?

>>7137635
Why not stay in germany? Because free is good. Even if I was rich, free is always good.

They are very biased towards anglo-style universities, which means that american and english universities tend to be overrated while continental european universities tend to be severly underrated.

>>7137635

If you want to live and work in Germany, then stay in Germany.

International students have a much higher bar to get into American schools period. For top 10-20 american schools you almost have to be a "household name" in your field.

>>7137648
>Because free is good.

Let me put it like this:
I have potential, but I have a family background that says "ain't got no money brother", so I had to finance my education through scholarships (even now).

>>7137664
I don't want to stay in Germany. I'd really like to go abroad for my masters+PhD, 'cause doing them in Germany will consume way more time than abroad.

>>7137655
Elaborate Mr. Dubsman.

>>7137655
Even the Chinese rankings?

http://www.shanghairanking.com/

>>7137673
>I don't want to stay in Germany. I'd really like to go abroad for my masters+PhD, 'cause doing them in Germany will consume way more time than abroad.

First of all, a master's or PHD is a means to an end and not an end itself. It will likely only matter for the first job that you want to land and from that point onward, it will matter more what you job experiences are. German companies or universities won't really care if you come from some top German university or American one.

Second, it is an incredible pain in the ass. American schools will still pay for your PHD (for master's students you will have to pay most of it) but the standards become much higher. They, like German schools, usually have a "bias" in serving local students to students from further away. For public universities, for example, it's because state tax payers literally fund the school.

International students effectively have to "pay" tens of thousands of dollars for tuition that must be excused by the department that wants to accept you. So you have to be a SUPERSTAR in general to edge out over slightly less superstar american students (this trend also works for american students applying to germany).

This on top of increased cost of living or visiting your family or friends back in germany. Its really a lot of pain for not much gain at all.

Depending on your PHD or the group you work with in Germany, you might still be able to work for a semester or a year "abroad" at an American school. For example, if you study laser physics and get involved with such a group it might entirely be possible to arrange something to be a visiting "scholar" at Stanford since they have their shiny new SLAC.

Lot of paperwork, get contacts and experience, and with a fraction of the headaches to get and attend.

>>7137675
>>7137677

Well I'm french, so I'll take France as an example.

In France the university system is very different. The best "universities" are actually not unversities but "Grandes Ecoles". To be admitted into a Grande Ecole, you need to pass an anonymous written exam, followed by an oral exam (basically do math and physics problems on a chalkboard). To prepare for the exam, students usually spend 2 to 3 years sudying day and night in "prep schools", which don't deliver any diploma. As you can see, it's a totally different system from anglo style universities.

Grandes Ecoles usually take in average 200 to 500 students a year, depending on their size. Compared to anglo universities there are very small. And since size is a factor in those university rankings, french Grandes Ecoles are penalized.

As for research : in France, there is little research done at Grandes Ecoles (although that is slowly changing). That is because there is a national research institute (the CNRS). So since research is an important criteria in those rankings Grande Ecoles fall behind.

So when I see in the Shanghai ranking that in France, the Ecole Polytechnique is behind the university of Lorraine, it makes me seriously doubt the validity of these rankings.

>>7137592
Ask your prof and ask some other people in the industry. Get some networking goin

>>7137688
I heard france education is shit and that your people literally just educates people to support your post - ciolonial system.

>>7137682
How about scholarships for masters/PhD?

Like some way to fund yourself in - lets say - Princeton.

>>7137695
The quality of education in universities varies a lot, but the quality of education in grandes ecoles is excellent.

>to support your post - ciolonial system.
I don't even know what the fuck that's supposed to mean.

>>7137698

You will usually be applying for scholarships at the same time as university in the US. So you will still be considered on the assumption you don't get them. Thus you lose any advantage that would give in the admissions process. If you already HAVE a scholarship it probably means its funding from Europe anyway that likely won't or can't pay the extra money to send you off to the states when there are good schools in Europe.

The big national scholarships in the US - NSF fellowships, NSDEG, etc. - are generally either only open to US citizens or are even harder to get for international students than admissions in the first place.

Your best bet if you REALLY want to do this, as I said, is to attend a prestigious European university and become a visiting scholar to the US. The easiest way to just live in the US for a little while would have been to study abroad as an undergrad.

>>7137688
I had a roommate who was an exchange student from one of those ecoles, I forget which but it was a big political one in Paris, and he said the classes were a joke compared to at my university and grades were inflated and they had mandatory attendance. Now granted this kid was a journalism major or some bullshit like that so I'm sure STEM classes are different, and I was at a top 20 US university at the time, but I'm really not buying that they are as legit as you are trying to make them sound.

>>7137709
Well I'm STEM master race so I don't really know about political schools. There are no political Grande Ecoles, perhaps he was referring to Science Po (Science Po is sometimes lumped in with Grande Ecole).

I've heard the opposite, all of my classmates who went on to do a semester abroad in the USA told me that classes were incredibly easy.

>>7137458
DTU master race reporting in

personal university ranking =
0.05*worldwide_ranking +
0.05*countrywide_ranking +
0.40*<span class="math">e^{-\frac{d}{2d_0}}+[/spoiler]
0.50*<span class="math">e^{-\frac{L}{L_0}}[/spoiler]
where
d = distance to the university
d_0 = average distance between two universities in your country
L = your available income
L_0 = average cost of living next to the university

>>7137675
>>7137688

It's the same for German universities, almost no research happens in universities, instead, various organisations like the Max Planck institutes are funded to do research. As a result, universities fall behind in research score, but it's not an accurate reflection of the true state of education at all.

>>7137709
>in exchange for your argument, I will offer you anecdotal evidence of one French student I met once from one school in France
alright mate

Money is an issue. For example, the Technological Institute of Budapest is a high-level university, but it has no money since it's eastern European, so no research, so no high positions in rankings.