/sci/ - Science & Math

Soon you'll realize the real problem is data

>>7132759

Elaborate

No, it's energy. Every human conflict revolves around energy.

>>7132786
this

and in the longer term, natural resources. we need to sort out our energy problems then focus on everything else.

Keeping people around too long would only dilute the labor force and retard the adoption of ideological and technological progress.

We've been find for the past 5,000 years so I think we'll continue to be fine faggot.

>inb4someone says "hurrrrr people could live forever 6,000 years ago? lol" and I have to explain that I chose that number because it's about the time civilization began

>>7132754
>humanity's biggest problem is aging.
That would only be the case if everyone were sterile, you fucking retard

>>7132839
>What are age-related health issues?

>>7132754
Humanity's biggest problem is humanity. To wit: greed, stupidity, war, the systematic exploitation of Earth's resources, and overpopulation.

>>7132754
Extending human life significantly might be the dumbest thing the western world could develop. If it happens, it will be catastrophic.

>>7132847
Insignificant to humanity as a whole

>>7132811
>6000 years ago
>it's about the time civilization began
lol, learn2history my city alone is older than that

>>7132804
People only lose the ability to progress because they get old.

>>7132754
>just realized humanity's biggest problem
More like you just realized you're going to die and are afraid. Welcome to adulthood.

>>7132754
>natural elegant way to keep population from exploding
>bad thing
we will all die.

Overpopulation is already rampant. If anything we need more people to die.

>>7132956
What an edgy thing to say.

>>7132989
Why do you hate humanity? Don't you want to see the driving spark of liberty arise in the eyes of as many people as possible?

>>7133018
I don't hate humanity. The number of humans that are on the planet and the consumption rates we have right now are leading to a death of our planet. We cannot sustain right now, why would we need anymore people?

I'm gonna have to agree with people saying our biggest problem is energy. Our biggest problem, sans future catastrophes, will always be energy. Physics will be at the forefront of expanding our energy supply, IN THE LONG RUN. For short run, it's chemistry.

>>7132754
>finish high school hating school
>work as dishwasher for half a year
>hate job
>start college like grandparents want because tuition paid for
>liberal farts because idk what to do
>take philosophy class
>decide that dying will be a problem for me
>switch to biology

Yeah, good luck to us and our kind OP. We'll need it..

>>7132754
The biggest problem is education. I'll try to explain it with examples from personal experiences, but think about what I'm saying for a minute.

What I've seen is that most people(the masses) study the hardest until they get to high school(some stop studying even earlier), either because they still have some respect/fear for the teachers, or maybe it's hormones or something else. But when people go to high school, most usually stop trying so hard and instead focus on just passing, and the main thing they care about is sex(the hormones speaking), and all sorts of other distractions. Few graduate from university and fewer get degrees that are actually worth shit. Some of the reasons it is so is probably because there are many schools where you have 20+ pupils in a class, or maybe because teachers don't get good enough payment, or that it's very hard to make someone who has wireless net in his pocket to focus on a book. Also I've personally hated how we had 5 different subjects in a day and at some point 2-3 months in the school year you just say "fuck it, I'm going to get drunk/have sex/play vidya etc", and you decide you won't study for the physics test. Then later you say fuck it and ignore the history lessons for example, and so on, and of course passing is easy 'cus "cheating is cool".

So then you have most people(the masses) whose strongest lesson from high school is that you can just ignore problems and cheat your way out. And those are your people with wasted potential who will not care about science and won't help further humanity's knowledge, and won't cure diseases or build rockets. And the worst part is that those are the citizens that are the easiest to manipulate through media, to vote for corrupted/retarded politicians.

Every problem like energy or pollution or illness etc can be solved(in 20-50-100 years depending(maybe)) if you throw money and human resources at it, but you need the educated people first.

tl;dr READ NIGGER! READ!

lol at all the people defining the "problems" of the world.

there are no problems. the world is as it should be. it is a perfect, self-correcting machine. every thing that happens, does so because it should, or rather, because it's the only way it could happen. everything that exists, exists in the way it is because it is the most optimal way for it to exist.

>>7133121
This is the true nature of optimists, everybody. Look at them. Look at them and laugh. Never wanting any more than what they're handed in life. Never desiring a better lot. Just accepting what they've been dealt.

>>7133121
If you have a goal then certain things that exist can be a problem in achieving that goal.

>>7133087
Society has always been like this. It's way better now than it used to be to be perfectly honest with you. I agree education is important but some people just aren't smart enough. We would have to practically control their education from birth to adulthood and become their parents on order to teach those people.

>implying it would be a good idea to 'fix' aging

people need to die anon. this world has become a fucking nightmare because people aren't dying fast enough

>hurr imma cure cancer

great, now we're all fucked

>>7133157
alarmist bullshit.

>>7133018

No. I want a future where machines and automatons do everything and a small human nobility lives a glorious existence alongside a small collection of artists and thinkers.

I want millions of acres in the hands of a single family. I want great monuments and space travel. To hell with the bulk of mankind.

>>7133162

>I know nothing about statistics and I never will

ignorant faggot

>muh science will save mankind!

science is the reason we're trapped in this mess. all these innovations in agriculture and industry have wrought successive population explosions that our tiny planet can't cope with anymore. something has to give and hopefully it will include people like you.

>>7133121
Actually, you're incorrect in my opinion. Humans are a naturally occurring part of that world, that self-correcting machine. What you fail to mention is that humans are capable of amazing feats of change and are the artists of our own fates. The "optimal" way to exist should never be defined, because that is subjective and we can certainly change it.

>>7133167
> I know nothing about history
the world's been "ending" for the last 6000 years.
I'd say we have at least a couple life times left.

>>7133163
Instead you'd get what happened in the movie Wall-E. Enjoy. Humans are slovenly creatures.

>>7133176

nobody claimed the world is ending. it's just getting progressively more resource- and space-strapped.

>>7133186
There's plenty of space.
And there's been plenty of times where the world was ending because of lack of resources.
Life..uh...finds...uh..a way

>>7132754

You assume humans are the point of it all. We're just here to create intelligent machines to replace us. They do not need pressuzied tin cans to colonize space as they are natively suited to that environment. Biological life has no future.

>>7133208
>implying we are here for a reason

Skynet pls go

>>7133208
Biological life might be the only form that works for the spooky computing the brain does.

>>7133213
>No reason exists because I personally don't know what it is

ok

>>7133221
but you...you are special, so of course you know.

>>7133222

>How arrogant of him to suggest there's anything I don't already know

uh

>>7133226
more like
> how arrogant of him to suggest that he knows that thing that no one "knows"

>>7133231

Never said that. Plenty of people know about it, you're just not one of 'em.

>>7133234
Or you're just deluding yourself.

I know why humans exist and it's certainly not to make robots.

>>7132754
>humanity's biggest problem is aging
more like suffering

>>7132754
Good luck OP. I'm heading towards nanotechnology hoping to contribute to the cause. Don't listen to these faggots naysayers.

>>7132754
How are you just now realizing this? Are people really this stupid

>>7132754

This is something i think about a lot, and it is interesting that you get replies bashing you and discouraging you from making the only logical thing you could do with your life in this day and age: discover ways to prolong it.

In my view there are 2 ways to look at life, either try to discover biological immortality, which might very well be possible within our generation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt_fP3fCkNo)) or live a hedonistic life. I also believe that there is some religious/cultural background that ifluences people to keep dismissing the relevance of biological immortality and that's why you hear comments like "we're supposed to die" but hopefully more and more people will open their eyes to what seems to me the logical truth here. Maybe that old mentality made sense when we didn't have the technology or understanding we have today (which is still very little) but now it doesn't really seem like something that is out of reach.

It's still a vestige of this old mentality that people will resort to simple criticism like saying that it would cause overpopulation when that problem could easily be solvable by sterilizing those who take the "immortality pill" until we found a solution to that -next- problem which could very well be colonizing mars or something like that for example.

I have chosen the hedonistic lifestyle because im a lazy selfish dumb guy but it seems so unlogic to me that governments are not focused on this problem and its not one of their flags when going for election. I guess it shows how primitive our society truly is

>>7133440
>hedonistic lifestyle

uhm, elaborate? If you have to work anyway, why not do it while trying to achieve something that you consider meaningful?

>/pol/ the thread

We know about accelerating returns on technology and that it's likely we will achieve a true AI by 2045. A mear 30 years from now.

You all seem to miss that fact that the impending intelligence explosion and transhumanist movement that it brings about will solve almost every issue you are all debating.

>>7133423

Nanotechnology will be essential to human ascendence.

>>7132989
>>7132902
>>7133157

Just sterilize the people that you "cured" until we are able to live in another planet and there is no overpopulation related problems.

>>7132976

so lets don't cure the cancer because its nature. or why did we cure tuberculosis?

Loldedol at all these people who think they will be allowed to attain biological immortality. If you or any scientist ever figured out how and if it were in any way not a procedure costing billions, it would be immediately confiscated by the government and used for the benefit of rich elites only. Can't have the plebs living forever, that would destroy the planet.

>>7132754
Aging is the only thing that will inevitably lead to death, which is the only thing preventing overpopulation and resource scarcity. It is not a problem for humanity as a whole.

>Human gets immortal
>No disease or minor injury can kill them because of nanobots
>The population stop grow
>No new humans are born because muh immortality and virtual porn
>No new technology is discovered because muh utopia and robots are doing everything
>Robots evolve and snap on retarded humans
>WH40K happens

Too bad for you suckers i am going to live for another 10 000 years just to see this happen.

>mfw immortality causes people to fight in arenas for the right to keep taking up space on earth

this is the world you want? a /sci/ Colosseum?

>>7133124
>Never wanting any more than what they're handed in life. Never desiring a better lot. Just accepting what they've been dealt.

no, I did not imply any of that. I am, just like you, a cog in the machine, having the illusion of power. I too strive to become better and to change, but unlike you, I realize that at the meta level, what I'm doing is just what I would do anyway, because that is how the world works, since it is perfect.

>>7133148
before I reply, can you define, as best as you can, what a "problem" means?

>>7133171
and if you think one step further, you realize that humans, like every other life form, is just an extension of the universe as is. humans are high order, self correcting function of the universe. just like the simple laws of physics are a way for the universe to self correct, so are humans, but in a very, very high level. you are making the mistake of taking humans "out" of nature, even though we are, nature itself.

Humanitys biggest problem is short-term thinking, and lack of understanding the human mind more generally.

>>7133681
but it is a problem for every human

>>7133732
>I realize that at the meta level, what I'm doing is just what I would do anyway, because that is how the world works, since it is perfect.
And unlike you I realize the world is shit and imperfect and that's why I am not doing something better.

>>7132754
The problem is not aging for humanity.. the problem is YOUR aging... you want to live forever.

>>7133800

It's the 'we' -guy again. He thinks mankind is on his side.

>>7133791
Why is the world shit? Is it because sometimes it makes you feel bad and suffer? Sure, nobody likes to suffer, but that doesnt make the world imperfect. Pain and suffering are as much a part of the world as is joy and happiness. The things that make you feel bad have their purpose, otherwise they wouldnt exist.

>>7133800

Fuck off, I want to live forever too, I was actually thinking of going OP's way but then I thought, we OP and the bio faggots fail I can just become a cyborg.

>>7133881
>The things that make you feel bad have their purpose, otherwise they wouldnt exist.
Circular logic

>>7132754

Life is just a process of hobbies, career and distractions... until the point gets hammered into your brain that you're going to die and therefore lose everything. Not just things that are worth having... no, you're going to lose EVERYTHING. You will cease. So all your concerns don't matter; you will cease. All your hobbies and jobs don't matter; you will cease. All your shit doesn't matter and is likely to just be tossed into a dumpster; you will cease.

That 13.72 billion years before your birth is going to seem like an eyeblink compared to the great yawning gulfs of Deep Time that will come after you die. The stars will sputter and die, the universe will go cold, and nothing will matter then.

Hey, no worries, right? Have a smoke, eat a piece of candy, get a good night's sleep. The NOW is all you really have.

>>7134017
Thats the kind of thinking that turns people into pure hedonists.

>not making a super virus to kill off all the shitposters

literally saving humanity and 4chan all in one swoop

Humanity's biggest problem is economical...
/thread
You autists all think technology alone will be our saving grace. Silly children

>>7134070
>Thats the kind of thinking that turns people into pure hedonists.

Certain people, yes. I didn't end up doing that.

>>7132754
>biotech/nanotech or biology
Literally the biggest waste of your time if you don't want to die. Super-intelligent AI is the only remotely practical chance you have for immortality, and even that isn't practical.
>implying humans will ever figure out cancer(s)
>implying humans will ever figure out telomeres

>>7134405
Superintelligent AI will never be allowed off the ground by the gubment. Too many have seen Terminator and know it ends badly.

>>7133163
You realize that you will likely be a part of said bulk that you said to hell with?

>>7134379

Question is why not?

>you didn't have the money did you?

>>7132754
Aging's not even in the top 5. The real strength of our technology is in written language, which renders mortality a moot point.

You can teach an individual how a piece of technology thousands of years in the making works to the point where, if they're clever enough, they can improve upon it.

>>7134564
Here's a short list of things, just off the top of my head, that are more important than aging if you're in it for the species:

1. Energy (there's not enough, currently entirely dependent on fossil fuels)
2. Resources (same)
3. Materials Research (same again)
4. Poverty/Hunger (statistically higher standards of living stems population growth, always)
5. Education (a better educated population makes better choices)
6. Space Travel (could help with a lot of things, but mainly, all the fancy tech in the world isn't going to mean shit if your biosphere dies for whatever reason and you have no backup plan or means of protection)

>>7134017

You are right, but are you implying that fighting for a better situation is useless?

What you described is not the end...it is our starting point.

>>7134590
>3. Materials Research (same again)
No way dude that's just fucking retarded. Materials research isn't even top 10 in terms of the species' survival, it pretty much is focused on highly specific applications at this point, of course some of those have a ton of potential but to put it as the #3 biggest issue is absurd.

>4. Poverty/Hunger (statistically higher standards of living stems population growth, always)
Since you seem to be focusing on the proliferation of the species as a whole rather than on quality of life or any individual, this is counterproductive - slowed population growth and even decline is a negative from this perspective.

>>7132754
I know your feel OP

I figured that out too when I entered university, but I don't have the courage to give up physics and start again.

In the meantime I will just keep hoping physics somehow yields a fundamental explanation of consciousness which might help achieve the same goal.

Other than that, I'm counting on you biofags. I know we make fun of you a lot, but if you can make me immune to aging I will suck all your dicks every day

>>7134632
Define "consciousness".

>>7134636
no

>>7133018
>as many people as possible?

Too many cooks spoil the broth.

I think human intellectual limitations should be priority number one. Find a way to vastly increase the capabilities and capacity of the brain in future generations and they will solve much more difficult problems more quickly than we ever could.

>>7134636
Neurophysics.

>being concerned with being at the forefront of progress
>not wanting to carve out a little niche in the world and live a happy life

>>7134977
I just want to and learn and publish for grants to live life.
Want to become known in an esoteric but interesting and somewhat important topic as an expert.

>>7132754
You can get into nanotech with physics you pleb.

The problem is that aging/senescence is essentially a genetic disease. That is, pleiotropic genes that increase an individual's fitness during their reproductive years can have negative effects at older ages, but since the older you are the less likely you are to reproduce those genes are never actively selected against.

For example, consider this: higher testosterone is beneficial towards genetic fitness in young men (ie., they are more likely to reproduce), but can also lead to testicular cancer in late adulthood. Genes don't "care" what happens to you after you've produced offspring, just that you DO produce offspring. Tons of other problems associated with aging are also likely due to pleiotropic genes (possibly, even alzheimer's)

Basically "treating" aging is more difficult than you think, since it's something that is essentially selected FOR, and is present in almost all species. I'm not really sure how biotech or nanotech is really supposed to help here. Anything short of genetic engineering is probably going to fail.

I've always felt like just flat out dying from old age would be a sick joke. Like I just can't comprehend it and I could very well see immortality being achieved before I die. Maybe I'm just scared but right now I don't want to ever die

>>7134999
Humans are not r-selection.

>>7132754
If I started and hosted a site dedicated to stem cell research biotechnology and other types of regenerative medicine would participate and add knowledge to it?

>>7135272
>trying to start legitimate discussion on a Peruvian scuba diving board

>>7135280
You're right the more I think the more I realize all of existence is basically scamception forever and ever like some sick cycle of constant never ending mental abuse, literally by typing this I am giving someone else money why do I even try to accomplish anything in life?

>>7135337
>all of existence
yet the concept of a 'scam' is literally nonsense for 99.999999999....% of the known universe

>>7135344
Elaborate, also explain the peruvian scuba diving thing a bit more I may be missing some subtle irony in the reference. If that was even you.

>>7135351
you seriously need that elaborated? How the hell does the idea of a 'scam' apply to stars, or galaxies? (or dark matter which is supposedly 90% of the universe alone)

and no I'm not the anon who wrote that puruvian comment, but it's just a joke in which he substituted part of a common phrase here with utter nonsense because anyone who's not totally new to the site doesn't need the complete sentence to understand his point

>>7135361
I know alot about the site itself I just don't spend enuf time on this board

>>7135367
no worries, I didn't mean for that to sound condescending anyway, I guess I just typed it that way out of habit

>>7132754
No, aging is humanity's greatest asset! At least when you think in terms of the species and not only about yourself, you selfish dum-dum.
It allows us to develop immunities to diseases and adapt to a changing environment.

>>7135410
probably none of that is too relevant anymore.
The time scale on which evolution is able to introduce new variation into the gene pool is more than likely far larger than the amount of time it would take for us to solve those problems on our own.
Natural selection however would still be in play, those who don't have a gene to survive an epidemic will still die, and can still be replaced by reproduction of those who have the immunity.

Also, without aging killing everyone off imagine how much more productive scientific discovery would be. As we advance more and more it becomes increasingly difficult and time consuming for younger generations to get up to speed. Instead of the 20 or so years it takes you to grow into a competent scientist, that 20 years would have been spent by someone doing actual research.

Not to mention how motivating the mere thought of it is. People would suddenly care about things like the environment, longevity of the human race, colonizing other planets, etc..
(personally I also think it would cure a lot of depression people face with feeling like their brief existence is meaningless, because suddenly you have given them every hope contained in the unknown future of humanity)

>>7132754
Who cares what humanity's biggest problem is? It's not like you're a moralfag, right?

I can't think of anything worse than living longer.

>>7135413
What about overpopulation?

>>7132754
>I just gave up physics.
Physics is not for everyone.
>You should realize this emergent problem too
I'm doing fine with lasers and optics, what "problem" should I realize, and why? Keep in mind that your problems are not my problems, pleb.

>>7135428
There would have to be reproduction laws I guess.

Although I don't really understand why, I suppose people wouldn't take it well. Maybe that's where the idea falls apart.
I wouldn't mind not having children for a few hundred years or so though as a tradeoff.


But another shortcoming is I think people would be more terrified of death. Would people still want to be police officers with heightened risk? Soldiers? It could give psychopaths and people who legitimately don't care about death more power than they have now

>>7135436
Well, I don't see reproduction laws working out very well in reality. The only way it would work out is if you only gave it to very intelligent, or high class people, like scientists and so on, most people like this have low birthrates and would also be able to make better use of immortality, but there would probably be riots if you restricted the technology. I don't think our society is ready for immortality. Besides, if we don't have any new humans then I think that we will eventually run out of ideas anyway, need different people to think differently

I've always thought "happiness" receives little attention as a true scientific goal.
At best only the soft sciences, psychology, psychiatry try to tackle it, badly.
It seems so bvious to me, why isn't there an appollo/manhattan effort level project on this?
End goal would be a "pleasure" drug/device/system whatever that keeps you euphoric AND productive all the time.

>>7135367
It's a common habit on all boards

>>7135429
Autist élite

>>7132754
You are right OP.
Imagine people with maturity, knowledge and life experience of 300 years, but energetic as a 20 year old.
Every other problem would get solved automatically.

>>7132754
Society only works with aging, it would collapse really soon if you remove aging. You'd have to sterilize a fuckton of people if you make people immortal or just live extremely long.

Aging is more of a problem for individuals than it is for humanity as a whole. For humanity, it might very well be beneficial

Salarians had better science, Asari had better culture. Take your pick I guess.

We need to first be able to support the energy and food needs of like 50 billion people first.

>muh resources
What if this immortality is by replacing the body with a robotic one? Energy needs can be fulfilled by the sun.

>>7135565
>replacing the body with a robotic one

>implying that a robotic body will exceed a biologically regenerating one in longevity

>>7135565
Only through the death of a mind can science and culture move forward. Neuroplasticity isn't exactly anyone's forté, coming up with ever new ideas is hard. Death is a fine thing to do.

>>7135587
There is sense in this post. The alternative would be regenerating our brains and putting them through a "second childhood", but then it wouldn't make much sense to think of that person as the same as before, it probably wouldn't be as effective as just creating a new individual and would also be complicated to achieve. The only sensible answer to death, I think, is reproduction

>>7135587
What when AI will be far more intelligent than any human being?

Also brain aging will be cured too...

You may be right for today's world, but 100 or 200 years from now your "wisdom" will be looked with enormous disgust

>>7135613
>Also brain aging will be cured too...
No, it never will. The brain is not something static, a machine in need of maintenance. "Brain aging" is a fundamental process in the maturing of the brain. In a way, it is what separates us from AI. Think of it like a sculpture. We cut away that which is superfluous to create something meaningful. Except is is a structure that is so extremely complex that any attempt to try to recreate it in a previous moment would ultimately be futile for technical reasons. And, even if you could, that would also mean that you took away from it its very purpose: the ability to develop and adapt. A brain constantly hammered to fit into a predefined set of schematics would cease to dynamic; it would cease to be intelligent.

Wouldn't we need to find a solution to dementia first?

>>7132754

When I was a kid (about five) I decided that if I ever went to study something seriously, it would be with the some purpose of solving the problem of aging. I just started medschool. I feel you bro.

>>7134428
Inb4 singularity in ~40 years.

>>7132754
You are going to get old and die. Deal with it.

>>7132754
save yourself the trouble and kill yourself

>>7136266
You know that things are going to be insanely weird even by the 30s, by the mid 50s we're going to be arguing about whether a "singularity" happened yet or not.

>>7136649
If I'm not exploring the multiverse as a pure energy being capable of manipulating reality as I see fit, then the singularity hasn't happened yet

>quit physics
>to do nano
Wut

https://imgur.com/a/HjF2P

which one is the most realistic one?

>>7136797
I'm going with nano medicine
could also be helpful for the brain because I doubt the brain can easily replaced with a machine in any way without technically killing you first (which is not immortality)

>>7136797

1.Advanced cryonics.
2.Nanomed
3.Anti-aging med
Rest is trash.

>>7135410
Death does that, not aging.

>>7133701
>mfw immortality causes people to fight in arenas for the right to keep taking up space on earth

>implying we aren't already fighting for the right to continuing our stay on this shitty rock.

>>7132754
Yeah great idea, even more fucking people on this already dying planet

OP goes for the nobel price

>>7132754
It's all about the length of the telomeres in your chomosomes mang. So far you can adjust your lifestyle in order to prevent their rate of shortening.
There have been trials with drugs that attempt to elongate them but they all ended up with some crazy cancer of some sort.

>>7136305
>>7136599
>>7137652
>>7137741

normies

>>7134017
Your life does matter because after you die you are born again and will repeat the whole thing an infinite number of times. That's if the idea of eternal return is true.

>>7133163
Shh... Don't ruin his dreams.

>>7132989
If we are overpopulating the planet and that actually matters then perhaps we should get off it. A culture orbital has the surface area of over one hundred earths and uses negligible mass. Then again I don't give a shit if the Earth "dies" except that we need it for humans and further I don't think people will reproduce without end.

>>7132754
This can be solved by energy solutions combined with massively increased processing power and data analysis.

Nanotech is already being tested on "I'll die anyway" cancer patients. It's just the beginning.

>>7132754
This is just a whataboutery.

"How can you think about the energy crisis when there are starving children in Africa?"

This is literally what you are saying.