/sci/ - Science & Math

>>6957152
Long addition.

Boolean topology

discrete math

>>6957152
Linear algebra.

Barnett integrable functions

>>6957152
numerical analysis ( at least numerical methods)
linear programming
engineering level prob/stats course

>>6957152

Recursion Theory
Computational Complexity
Graph theory
Combinatorics
Real Analysis
Abstract Algebra
Set theory
Algorithms
Geometry
Other areas of Logic.

>>6957152
90% CS majors are terrible at math. My dad recently started helping with the recruiting process at Google for software engineering positions. The first question he asked in most of his interviews was "switch two numbers without the introduction of a third variable." Out of the 10 he asked, 3 couldn't do it and 6 took 30+ minutes to come up with:
int a, b
a = b+a
b = a-b
a = a - b
I mean holy shit, it took me 1 minute to solve this.

big O notation

90% of CS majors never understand it

>>6957259
This. I know so many CS majors that don't actually understand what a logarithm is. It's disgusting.

>>6957253
You could argue that it required a creative idea to see how to do it. A better anecdote has been posted earlier on /sci/, some blog post of a guy who does interviews for a software related company and 95% of the CS degrees who applied for the position couldn't solve fizzbuzz.

>>6957276
Funny thing is that one of the people he asked was a CS grad from Carnegie Mellon.

Damn, I'm a prospective CS/EE major. Do people really go into CS without a love of math?

>>6957293

Most in CS go into to learn how to code and create applications. It just so happens that Colleges are out of date on why people go to CS, so most colleges don't have a software engineering major or update their CS program.

>>6957293
If you want to more theoretical/mathematical stuff, then don't do CS. In CS you will almost exclusively encounter people who hate even the simplest math.

>>6957293
Yes, they do. They think it's about programming and learning programming languages. They're not even aware of the importance of algorithms in Informatics.

>>6957293
There are 3 types of people interested in CS.
1) People interested in gaming/AI (and I mean the sci-fi types)
2) People purely interested in the job prospects
3) The legitimate CS majors that actually love the subject
I estimate in terms of numbers of the above, it's like 40%-55%-5%

>>6957305
No, everyone here probably realizes that CS is on the same level as math. The problem is the people that go into it.

>>6957293
What you will find in CS:
>video game manchildren still living with their parents
>fedora "muh linux" /g/ autists, often also weeaboos and furries
>wannabe Zuckerbergs who couldn't make it into a business major
>ugly hipster chicks who enjoy the attention they get from all the betas
>immigrants who barely speak your language but want to have a good job

What you will not find in CS:
>people who enjoy math
>people who intend to do academic research

>>6957168

Sounds interesting, where should I begin? I know pretty much the math youd expect from someone on their third year of CS

>>6957304
>>6957301
>>6957305
>>6957307
So people who can appreciate Knuth or Dijkstra schools of thought or the elegance of RSA are few and far between?

That's depressing.

>>6957276

I solved fizzbuzz on my first try after taking one coding class, CS major.

Problems like these are why you don't outsource CS. Problems that require the smallest hint of creativity are an indian's worst nightmare. I suspect it's the liberal arts stance on education american kids are given up through high school.

so ITT "Computer scientists generally do not know math?"
How do they get into the work force at all?

Some of the things people mention are insane. Like not being able to do fizzbuzz. How do you go through an entire cs major and not learn loops and modular arithmetic?

>>6957330
In Boolean Topology, everything either is or isn't a donut.

Seeing stuff like this is almost making me regret avoiding double majoring with CS and Math. the intro to Java course turned me off, but some of the applied math is hella interesting, and as a math major now i'm probably better off than most CS ones.

>>6957387
>I solved fizzbuzz on my first try after taking one coding class, CS major.
That's as it should be. Fizzbuzz is a test of whether you know absolutely the first thing about programming. And word's getting around, so nobody should actually challenge people with fizzbuzz, but you should make up a similarly trivial task.

>>6957276
>95% of the CS degrees who applied for the position couldn't solve fizzbuzz.
Here's the thing about job interviews: you get a lot of desperate unemployed people. The people who get jobs stop going around to more job interviews.

Are you starting to see where this kind of figure comes from?

If you're not, here's your first clue: you can't actually get a(n accredited university) CS degree without being able to code a fizzbuzz. You wouldn't pass any semester of any CS program.

>>6958057
a lot of them don't but I find it stupid how people regard CS. If CS students are failing, it's more likely to be the institution/instructor than the students themselves. I can't imagine this many people being idiots.

>>6957170
Lol, I just took a Discrete Mathematics class (CS 220) and I still have no idea what it was all about. All I could glean from it was basic logic and combinatorics.

I dislike math because teachers don't know how to teach it.

I do not know any other CS majors who learned nearly enough in the way of numerical analysis... though I know a couple of physicists who are quite adept at it. For my grad studies and now in my job, those were the most important classes I took as an undergrad. Not just figuring out algorithmic complexity, but having the ability to build efficient numerical algorithms that are tailored to specific tasks, and knowing enough of the mathematical theory to be able to evaluate them properly.

I took a graduate course in computational ring theory, and another in computational number theory. Both were a lot of fun. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that every CS major should know much about those things.

In order of importance

Number theory
Discrete
Numerical analysis
Game theory

I am a cs major whose only goal is academia/research. I had a poor math background, but I am working very hard to change that. This semester I took Calculus 1, which was.. not that hard. I aced it and was near the top of my class. I don't understand why, since I barely know algebra. I just worked hard. Over the winter break, my goal has been to improve my math skill. I alternate days between studying precal/trig and calculus. For that latter, I am using Kline's Calculus: An Intuitive and Physical Approach. I don't know what /sci/ thinks of it, but I know that I'm learning a lot.

As far as discrete math.. its really embarrassing how little effort CS majors put into that class here. I always here them complaining about anything that isn't directly related to building applications. I am always arguing that for computer science, classes like discrete and architecture are critical.

Another thing CS majors hate: functional programming. Everyone shares their horror stories of having to use F# in Survey of Programming Languages. Its just sad.

>>6957259
that's because it requires knowledge of real analysis and that's not required in a cs program which makes no sense to me.

>>6958138
>Math skill
>precalc/trig/calc1
>not even a rigrorous book

dude what the fuck, why do you speak with so much authority about these things? you're just starting out

>>6958154
How did you not understand that that is my point? I am not good at all, but am working to improve. That doesn't mean that it isn't obvious to me that math should be taken more seriously by CS students. Also, for the second paragraph I was talking about discrete and architecture, which I am very familiar with. I'm saying that, just like most CS students ignore calc/linear/etc, they even ignore subjects that are basic to CS.

>>6957387
>I solved fizzbuzz on my first try after taking one coding class

That's nothing I solved it 30 minutes ago without ever taking a single class.

>>6957307
I'd argue that the third category is actually two different groups.
A) Those who just like programming and were told that CS was their best option, when they would probably be better served doing software or computer engineering.

B) Those who actually know what CS is about

>>6957172
We learn linear algebra, then forget it one semester later.
>>6957170
We also learn this, and forget it.

Programmers are always connected to huge libraries and the internet. Every time we want to solve something, we just take a solution out of a library and solve it.

Larry Page and Sergey Brin did not invent the math behind their algorithm they used to make the search engine that made Google famous. They just implemented mathematicians' ideas in code.

We are not as smart as math or physics majors, and we don't care. We have far too much fun making mobile games with millions of downloads to give a damn about your tiny additions to science and math. You have to be SO smart to make even the tiniest difference in math or physics. None of the men who founded the great tech companies of today were geniuses. They just had the right combination of intelligence, privilege, and social skills to go all the way.

THIS >>6957327
Fuck, how accurate, well said Anon. Well said.

why are people calling it fizzbuzz, it's foobar

>>6957327

>What you will find in CS:

>>video game manchildren still living with their parents

I'm this one.

>>fedora "muh linux" /g/ autists, often also weeaboos and furries

I have not met one of these yet.

>>wannabe Zuckerbergs who couldn't make it into a business major

Haven't met one of these yet either. They usually go into other programs like Mech or Petroleum eng.

>>ugly hipster chicks who enjoy the attention they get from all the betas

HOLY SHIT SO ACCURATE! All the women in my CS/SENG classes have been ugly as fuck, almost as ugly as my fat ass. In first year, there was this downright homely woman who had a "relationship" on FB by the end of the year. This year, there were two chicks who had partially shaven heads, like dykes, who enjoyed milking attention from desperate men. The only socially and physically normal women in CS are some kind of Asian or African. ALL of the white women in CS under 40 are complete lebearded geeks.

/* This code is crap, but it's just a meme so who gives a fuck. */
import.java.lang; //hehehehe
import java.math;

public class ObjectifyWomen {

public static void main(String args[]) {
getRating();
}

public getRating(String gender, int age, String race) {

if (gender = "female" && age < 40 && race = "white") {

rating = 0/10;

} else if ((gender = "female" || age < 40 || race = "white") && !(gender = "female" && age < 40 && race = "white")) {

rating = 2/10;

} else {

break;

}

}

}

The only exception to this is if the white woman is less than 40 and a CEO of a major company or a high up executive, like Marissa Mayer. Women like her are fine.

>>immigrants who barely speak your language but want to have a good job

I have not met any of these either.

fuzzy logic

>>6958330
Is this post serious? I play games as well but your post is just embarrassing

>tfw 4chan is approaching critical poe

>>6958332
STFU. I haven't played a fucking game in like 4 months because of school.

If you play games for more than an hour a day or 7 hours per week and can't code, you are a fag.

Seriously though, white women in CS are fugly creatures.

>>6958334
You mad as fuck son and autismal feodra, I've been coding since 13.

also your code is nonsensical and sexist.

>>6958359
>also your code is nonsensical and sexist.

Read the comments you tard. It's supposed to be both of those things.

Also, it's not really sexist because my comments are only directed at white women (most of the women in the courses where I go to school), not women of color. They are into CS because they like science, math, information, and money, just like them men, not to be a fucking tomboy dyke.

Possible butthurt white woman detected.

>>6958373
>possible retard alert

I don't even disagree with you. I just wanna know why you mad?

>>6958380
>le ebin y u mad trolling
0/10

>>6957152
>What math should most CS majors know but still don't?

A lot considering CS majors know no math AT ALL.

>>6958399
What the fuck kind of shitty schools do you guys go to?

>>6957155
/thread

>What math should most CS majors know but still don't

CS majors at my uni take the following:

- Differential Calculus
- Integral Calculus
- Discrete Math
- Stats and Probability

What they should be taking:

- Multivariable Calculus
- Vector Calculus
- Linear Algebra
- Number Theory
- Combinatorics

>>6958457
Pretty sure combinatorics and number theory fall under the umbrella of discrete math but I pretty much agree with you.

I still don't know why so many CS people seem to loathe math.

>>6958295

oh, please. you're referring to strictly academia. Mathematicians/physicists work in virtually every technical sector there is.

Not to mention we learn how to program anyways, and since you can learn Algorithms/Data structures from wiki or a book (and still have more knowledge of the applications of mathematics), we'll be glad to take your jobs while we're at it.

>>6958472
Because half of CS is made up of those who couldn't make it in Math/Phys/Engineering but knew C++, or those who think that coding == free easy money and didn't want to do an Art major

>>6958473
lel if you think you can be as competent as someone who's been coding for years and years after reading through a couple books.

>>6958405
schools in the US lol

>>6958473
hahahahahaha

>>6958478

>as competent as someone who's been coding for years and years after reading through a couple books

1. The idea of most algorithmic techniques in CS aren't that difficult, and have their place in math/physics - note that a lot of nobel prizes are being won by scientists who wrote software to do something new ;)

2. I'd trust the development of an algorithm for CS purposes in the hands of a mathematician who read a book but understands _at its core_ how it should be optimally implemented over some CS guy who's been making Java apps for a service company for 4 years

>>6958490
>over some CS guy who's been making Java apps for a service company for 4 years
>he thinks that this what CS is!

Sucks that you go to a school so shitty where computer science isn't very connected to the mathematics faculty.

I'm also sorry you suffer from Dunning-Kruger. See: >>6958487

>>6957327
I love math, though..

>>6958373
>Also, it's not really sexist because my comments are only directed at white women

Sheboon pls go

>>6958490
>2.

I'd rather take someone who understands how code is executed in real world processors over both of those.

>>6958499
Ours literally is. On one side of the bridge is Computer Science, on the other is Mathematics. The Discrete Mathematics department exists on both sides of the bridge.

The bridge was built a few years ago to symbolise the connections between the fields, but maths students aren't allowed in the CS department and so can't cross the bridge anyway, which I found pretty funny. So much for open source.

Which mathematics modules do you think I have missed out on? I know I have missed out a few core computer science modules, I intend to take them in my final year if possible.

>>6958076
>as a math major now i'm probably better off than most CS ones.

Y-y-you mean in the job market or just happiness wise?

>>6957387
Fizzbuzz is literally 'can you program or not', there is no creativity, it literally just separates those who have NEVER programmed from those who have done a lessor or two...

Come back with something actually difficult/interesting like a Scheme or Lambda Calculus interpreter.

>>6958295
The tech founders are way, way smarter than people expect. Gates for example did Math-55 at Harvard, which is a course which does about four years of math in two semesters.

>>6958712
Not him, but in the job market. Seriously. Google etc. would rather a math major they can mould to be a programmer than a CS grad. who is shit at math.

>>6958708
>No numerical analysis

Are you fucking serious?

>take mandatory maths courses in first years of CS
>have fun with formal methods
>decide to pick up maths classes for my masters
>realize how little is taught to us
I really hate this, all professors and older students claimed how mathematical CS is, showed us all those fancy maths stuff and how complicated it is and how many people fail this and we are better the engineers and CS != SE - and in the first semesters you don't know that this is wrong and believe it.

But really, instead of doing maths for CS and piss easy introduction to X theory one should just let the CS students take the same classes as mathematicians for linear algebra and calculus and then force them to take the discrete maths and logic courses.

>>6958747
I am not quite sure what you are referring to, this is the module description for a mathematics module with the same name, is this what you are referring to?
http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/maths/undergrad/ughandbook/year2/ma228/

>>6958750
That sounds like what we are doing, only I am doing discrete mathematics. Our first year required core was probability, mathematical foundations, two terms of real analysis, linear algebra, two terms of discrete mathematics, introductory programming module and data structures/algorithms module.

>>6958708

Is there an url where we can drill down into more details of the syllabus, particularly wrt the applications of discrete math? I randomly googled Discrete Math 220 and came up with http://www.lcsee.cemr.wvu.edu/courses/syllabi/CS220.pdf which has a little bit of a breakdown but it's not very comprehensive.

>>6958746

Yeah I'm sure google would or a trading firm would but I'd wager 90% of CS jobs are grunt work where the person just builds jave GUI apps that query SQL mainted by someone else and construct graphs for people to oooh and ahh at.

>>6958295
Why the fuck are you talking as we? Don't group CS people in with your shitty codemonkey jobs. Enjoy your unfulfilling, unimportant life and job.

>>6958758
I am pretty sure that this is a public link, you can check out the modules for the other years by substituting dm1 for dm2 or dm3 (only BsC is offered).
http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/dcs/teaching/ugcourses/dm1/

I am interested in what /sci/ thinks of this course, as far as I am aware it is the only dedicated discrete mathematics undergraduate course available in the UK.

>>6958766
Looks like what CS should be, but I would have expected another advanced course on graphs and dedicated courses on complexity theory and computability instead of CS301 because I guess it will be a very watered down lecture.

Also try topology, it's not discrete maths but I found it extremely useful nevertheless, and a book on lambda calculus and types.

At my Uni, these math courses are obligatory for BSc students:

- Linear Algebra with Geometry
- Introduction to Mathematics (includes basic logic)
- Discrete Mathematics
- Real Analysis
- Probability Theory
- Numerical Methods

Then, there's more as optional courses and you have to pass some number of them. They're optional, but you have to choose some anyway.

>>6958777
Well half of the combinatorics module was essentially graphs, haven't taken algorithmic graph theory yet so can't comment on that, and we have already discussed complexity and computability in some detail in the algorithms module. Whether the complexity of algorithms module will overlap significantly I am not sure, tends to be a bad habit of the department(s), especially overlap between CS and maths modules since they do not communicate very well.

Topology along with a lot of other maths modules sound very interesting, however I am not taking the prerequisite of topology which is metric spaces. Unfortunately I just do not have enough time to do much of the non-core interesting stuff from either CS and maths, pretty much just the core from both.

Thanks for having a look, was nice to hear an outsiders opinion on the course

>>6958779
>>6958747
>Numerical methods/Numerical analysis

What did you learn in this module? I am not sure if we covered that material.

>>6958809
Algorithms that approximate integrals, e^x, Gauss elimination algorithm, interpolation etc.

>>6958831
I think knowledge of those topics apart from interpolation is assumed from A Level study, although probably not in as much detail as a dedicated university module.

>>6958777
>>6958831
I now remember there was to be a further module in discrete mathematics this year which covered topics such as advanced graphs and spline interpolation, but the mathematics department cancelled it for some reason, and it doesn't appear on that course list.

>>6958831
>>6958844
If you'd like to learn more, the course was based on this book.

>>6958845
I think the biggest gap in our course which comes to mind when looking at the table of contents for that book is the chapter on floating-point errors and such. We discussed such issues in A Level Computing but they were not really bought to our attention on our degree course, which is pretty important seeing as though most students came to the course without an understanding/interest in computer science and so probably think more abstractly/mathematically when dealing with programs.

>>6958856
I am sure most of the topics you mentioned were covered in the dedicated CS modules which we did not take as DM students though.

Might be a stupid comment of me but is this thread about things cs majors learn and just don't understand or remember, or is it about things that aren't in their curriculum in the first place?

>>6958864
things that are in their curriculum but in a dumbed down way. I.e. everything

ITT shit posting. You will learn the math you need in your upper division courses. These assholes saying you need modern algebra and analysis are full of shit.

If you enjoy numerical/scientific courses than learn some extra math, but if you want to code for phones and tablets you are fine with a standard CS education.

To be safe you could take a numerical methods (not analysis) from one of the engineering departments.

>>6958878
Well that's the distinction between software engineering and computer science, I don't think anyone in this thread is suggesting that Android developers really need real analysis or anything.

>>6958890
One sucks dicks the other takes them up the anus.

What does a computer scientist even do?
Software engineering? Build computer hardware? Server administration?
I think computer scientists must be good at cryptography and algorithm stuff, but if I imagine the nsa hiring people for their top secret plans, I'm sure a mathematician is better than a guy who spent 2 semesters learning java

>>6958941
It seems to me that every other CS lecturer I have had this term is researching Ramsey numbers in combinatorics

>>6958890
I have never heard of software engineering as a major in California; only as a class in the CS curriculum. To me it is coding to make a software product ready for commercial sale.

>>6958978
I have seen software engineering delivered as it's own degree at some universities in the UK, but it remains a problem here that many take CS expecting software development.

>>6958478

typical job posting for programmer

- "B.S. in Computer Science, _some related field like Mathematics or Engineering_, or **equivalent experience**"

typical job posting for mathematician

- "M.S. in Mathematics"

>>6958953
yeah because Knuth lol

>>6959006

- "B.S. in Computer Science, _some related field like Mathematics or Engineering_, or **equivalent experience**"
+
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1TsOHyJPpw

>>6957327

>ugly hipster chicks

It's not like you're Brad Pitt or anything are you?

>>6959172
No I'm phawking zyzz brah

>>6957327
Pined it right in the eye, Jesus!

>>6957197
>>big words I googled

>>6960499
Those are basic concepts/subjects within math...

>>6960151
jeff pls go

I'm an undergrad doing CS right now. The course requires calc 1&2, linear algebra, and discrete structures 1&2. I feel like I should take more math courses so which should ones should I take from this list?

http://www.math.rutgers.edu/courses/ug_courses.html

>>6960838
Math 300
Math 354
Math 373
Math 477/478
Math 481

Maybe Math 351

>>6961081
Ok thanks! What about cryptology?

>>6961097
Most CS departments have their own versions of those types of classes. You will learn math applicable math stuff in your upper division CS classes.

>>6961117
http://www.cs.rutgers.edu/undergraduate/courses/

These are all the CS courses at my school. I'm focusing on a software engineering track, but I'd like to have a diverse set of knowledge anyway. So with that list in mind does that change which math classes I should be looking to take?

>>6961097
CS 323 - Numerical Analysis and Computing
CS 425 - Computer Methods in Statistics
CS 419 - Computer Security

These course are similar to the math dept. courses, but more applied to CS. These cover all you need as a working CS grad.

>>6958457
Maybe not in your community college but in any respectable university all those courses are given to CS majors

>>6961180
Thanks! Do you recommend I also take Multivariable calculus?

>>6961208
Yes double/triple integrals pop up a lot in prob/stat. Also not really a hard class, just like calculus 1 but with a z-axis thrown in.

STEM dorks, you will never know the pleasures of White women. So sad, enjoy coding in your cubicle surrounded by smelly Indians.

^you sir are a sexist, racist bigot. I am a white female in chemical engineering, and I have an exclusive preference for fellow engineers, scientists, and programmers.

>>6961214
Ok thank you
>>6961271
You're retarded

>>6961271
>I have to believe these absurd stereotypes for my self esteem
I'm sorry, friend

>>6961271
stay away from white women brownshit

>>6961271
I went to a reject UC school surrounded by ugly tranny-looking Asians. The one one the far left I would kill for. Fuck I hated college.

>>6961555
did you go to riverside?

I've visited, that place is so shitty. For a UC you'd expect there to be less white trash and negroes in the surrounding area

>>6961556
I went to one of the other reject UCs. UCR stands for UC Rejected and is the worst of them.

To be honest for public schools after UCLA/Cal no one cares where you went. Go to the cheapest option.

>>6957152
Lie theory

>>6958476
I had a sophmore in CS tell me how much she hated math. I was really surprised to hear that until I learned it's not that uncommon.

>>6957253
first year cs here, is that shit useful when talking about computation time?

>>6957152
My major is comp sci and I actually enjoy math.

However, I would much rather work with algebra and discrete mathematics when calculus is not involved.

>>6963567
> useful
In practice, no. Your processor almost certainly has a dedicated swap instruction, and the compiler will deal with figuring it out. Writing a variable swap like >>6957253 will reduce the chance of the compiler figuring out what you're doing, costing you a couple extra cycles and maybe even interrupting your pipeline.

It's only useful as an exercise, which I find amusing, because I still remember my class being given that problem in the very first week of CS 100.

>>6957259
Can you explain that like I'm 4?

Wikipedia is so difficult to follow.

>>6960151

no thanks jeff

>>6958057
>how do they get into the work force at all
They don't. CS grads are mostly unemployable, most of them wind up either serving coffee or going back to get a real degree.

>>6963959
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in Triple Integration Theory and I’ve been involved in numerous secret math classes on triple integrals and I have over 300 confirmed triple integrals computed I am trained in triple integration and I’m the top triple integrater in the entire US. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, with barnett's identity. Mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting jacob barnett so we can kick your ass. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your ego. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I out triple integral you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in mathematics, but I have access to the entire arsenal of geniuses like jacob barnett and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of any math competition. You’re fucking owned, kiddo. Consider yourself triple integrated.

>>6963980

Integrate yourself a sense of humor please

>>6963898
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewd7Lf2dr5Q&list=PL4C4720A6F225E074&index=8
this prof explains the bare basics of O(n) calculations, literally in the simplest way possible

Here's the actual big-O definition.

>>6958265
I solved it before even hearing the problem

>>6958295
They did invent the Pagerank algorithm. It was unique and the technique for making it tractable was clever. Their work was as good as that of any mathematician, but they recognized a clear application for it and knew how to raise the money for executing it ambitiously.

>>6957152
Numerical literacy isn't a course taught in most schools but it is a skill that most college graduates lack.

>>6963864
its a bad idea actually. you have to check that both a+b and b-a won't overflow when all you want to do is swap.

>>6961577
>not going to UC San Diego for the engineering department after UCLA rejects you

>tfw going into final semester of CS
>only math I had to take was up to Calc 2 and then my choice of linear algebra, stats, or Calc 3
>I took stats

>>6957253
switch two numbers? you're not switching anything, all you're doing is making a new number, fuck even a++; or something would have worked

>>6958295
>learn linear algebra and forget it the next semester
Good Fuck? How? Don't you understand the shit that row reduction does for you? Shit...it alleviates you from having to form half of the diff eq equations.

>>6958478
Yes, yes you can

>>6963959
this, either you're a good programmer or you're not, spending thousands of dollars for some professor beardhat to tell you to rtfm, google it etc, CS degrees are nothing but a waste of money and you'll get stupid fags who swear up and down by their degree and if you don't have one you 'code like a monkey'

>>6964351
Yeah, it's not like a degree is a foot in the door for any entry level job.

Every employer will definitely hire a self-taught programmer.

Oh wait.

>>6964285
>TFW my undergrad was exactly that, but we had to take all three

>>6964365

He'll tell you that you should just get a github account and do freelance work, but will fail to tell you that only the top programmers that excel will be able to get their foot in the door without a degree.

>>6964285
mfw I have to take up to Calc 3 and linear algebra just to transfer to a UC/CSU in california.

>>6964368
yes if you're self taught you definitely need to prove to your employer that you're competent, and literally every employer will indeed hire a self taught programmer, 95% of employers don't give a flying fuck about degrees they just care if you're a cool guy (seriously) and you're competent.

i'm sure you've been told that without a degree you'll never get hired, or you won't make as much money as someone with a degree, that's total bullshit, unless you suck at programming and if so you wouldn't get a job anyway, degree or not.

>>6964365
>entry level job
>existing
You haven't been outside lately, have you? There hasn't been an entry level job opening since 2008. Every, and I mean literally every, job expects prior experience in an identical or superior position.

The tech bubble is dead and programming as a career is circling the drain. As firms die, the same group of people move from position to position, every time losing a few to retirement, academia, or a different field. Eventually the ashes will settle and CS will be just like mathematics or any other science: primarily academic, with occasional engineering positions that apply the theories of academia.

Entry level positions and career opportunities only exist in growing fields. There are no growing fields in 2014.

>>6964383
I literally just got hired for an entry level position with 0 (zero) prior experience.

It all depends where you're looking.

>>6957327
At some community college? Fuck yes.

At CMU? Certainly not.

Manchildren, furries, rejects, hipster chicks and immigrants don't make it into the good programs.

>>6958743
>tfw you will never take Math-55 at Harvard

>>6957253
>cheating

*(&a+sizeof(a))=b;
b=a;
a=*(&a+sizeof(a));

>no new variable
>problem?

>>6964460
I'm curious (and definitely not a programming wiz), but wouldn't this throw a seg fault?

>>6957152
R E G R E S S I O N A N A L Y S I S

>>6964011
this motherfucker really cares about his 401k...

>>6964383
Stop with this zerohedge gloom and doom shit.

If you're average, though, of course you're fucked.

>>6964486
It could throw a seg fault but wouldn't unless you were almost completely out of memory. At least not in Linux.

Runtime Segmentation checks are only by memory segment, but not by variable.

It might have other nasty in intended consequences though, like corrupting your program's memory.

>>6964403
>CMU

I live in California and just looked up CMU. I had never heard of it until right now.

>>6964403
I have a couple of friends at CMU. They all have strange inferiority complexes.

https://www.eecs.mit.edu/docs/ug/Checklist.pdf

MIT's maths requirements for CS related degrees are here. real analysis isn't necessary.

I think /sci/ is once again overestimating the importance of maths.

>>6964262
I go to UCSD right now and hate this fucking place. I regret not spending a little more for USC or saving money and going to CS Northridge.

Yes I was rejected by Stanford, Cal, UCLA. So fuck my life because I feel shit tier. Fuck Asians are ugly. Some of them look like the old logo for Alien Ware.

>>6965194

Why do you regret the place? Is it because of the people or because of the classes?

>>6965194
>This guys legitimately believes there are less Asians at Berkeley/UCLA
Pic very related. Every good uni in California is bound to be packed with ugly Asians, deal with it. Besides, UCSD is a fine uni. Make the best out of what you have and you can do just as well as someone coming from MIT.

>>6965194

Protip: 50% of STEM programs are filled with Asians, 30% are foreigners(indians), 15% white, 5% black/mexican

>>6965272
The people. You go here because no Cal/UCLA. Also students are here just for a degree there is no college vibe, plus the location is very boring. Now that I have been here a while I realize all the reject UCs are basically the same. I may just transfer to USC.

>>6965281
I agree about Asians, but Cal/UCLA are far more alive as far as campus vibe, and in far better locations. UCLA is right in the middle of the richest parts of LA and always feels alive.

UCSD feels like a Target store right before closing hours.

>>6965310
>Also students are here just for a degree there is no college vibe

>people go to study and learn. Thanks, this truly is the school I want to transfer to.

>I agree about Asians, but Cal/UCLA are far more alive as far as campus vibe, and in far better locations. UCLA is right in the middle of the richest parts of LA and always feels alive.

What degree are you going for? You sound like your a BA major.

>>6958074
Kek

>>6965313
Structural engineer. Easiest and fastest to complete.

>>6957253
overflow safe (C syntax):
a = a ^ b
b = a ^ b
a = a ^ b

>>6957184
That's unfair, only two people on the planet really understand this.

>>6957253
>tricks
If anyone asked me this question I would get up and walk out right then.

>>6965337
As a function you can call:

// Usage: swap(&a,&b)
void swap(int* a, int* b)
{
// check for same address: a ^ a == 0
if ( a == b)
return;
else
{
*a ^= *b;
*b ^= *a;
*a ^= *b;
return;
}
}

Infinite series.

Also wtf no one else is required to take linear algebra?

>>6965292
Do you mean Hispanic when you say Mexican.

>>6965376
I'm required to take linear algebra at Rutgers

>>6965468
Not in California. Hispanic always says "Hispanic regardless of race." I am a White Puerto Rican and got a free education because I am Hispanic.

Once I won an academic grant for Hispanics and the winner were Black( Panama), Chinese (Dominican Republic), Jewish (Venezuela), and me. No little brown Mexicans.

But in California Hispanic means brown Mexican, while in Florida it could mean anything. The girl in the pic is Lz Solari; born in Colombia and raised in Argentina. She would be considered Hispanic in the US.

>>6965523
Friend of mine is Hispanic. Looks like guy in pic. Guy is whiter than most white people and gets all kinds of awards for minorities. To his credit he speaks fluent Spanish and is involved in both cultures.

>>6965569
I am blond & green-eyed. But I still get my affirmative action and free money. The brown Mexicans always looked shocked/angry when they see me roll in for the dough.

Pic: Mexican actor Eugenio Siller.

>>6965523
Oh ok. I'm Dominican, but I look kind of brown but not black or Mexican. So idk what that makes me. I usually just put white considering my Spanish sucks.

>>6965576
Americans are retarded. They think Hispanic means Brown, when Hispanic could mean White European.

>>6965523
>>6965576
I really feel like mexicans are the new niggers in the US.

Actual black people get super nice treatment from affirmative action if they make an effort and show any potential, there are tons of black scholarships, black organizations, black internship programs, etc on top of just all the general diversity stuff.

There's a fair amount of resources specifically aimed at being available to mexicans, but, it really seems like just as blacks have historically been discriminated against much more than Hispanics, now there is more affirmative action and opportunity shit for them.

So mexicans are stuck fighting over already a minority share of the "diversity and underrepresented minority scholarship fund", if you will, if you view all of society's collective resources as one pool. But, the thing is, actual poor as fuck brown ass mexicans and central americans, the ones who are legitimately from a shit background, end up getting completely fucked over, because they can't compete with upper middle class white Hispanics any more than they can compete with rich white and asian kids. And there's not really a system in place, within most diversity or Hispanic scholarship funds, to distinguish between actual poor oppressed people and rich kids, it's assumed everyone in the racial category is equally poor and oppressed which is nonsense.

Like, the one kid from my high school to get into an Ivy League university was Hispanic, he was pretty smart but not on the level of me or the (Indian) valedictorian (or the other asians at the top of the class) and pretty clearly got in based on race quota, meanwhile his dad owns a fucking law firm and his family was richer than mine.

I dunno. Random rambling thoughts that are more suited to /pol/ but would get me chased off the board with a lot of abuse for not wanting to kill all niggers.

>>6965578
If you're applying for things in the US you better say you're hispanic, you're literally throwing away a free advantage

>>6965597
Yeah I'm just really tired so I forgot that Hispanic != Mexicans. And yeah I put that I'm Hispanic. Got a shit ton of money for financial aid. Feels nice.

>>6958295
You must be black or some other skin color besides white.
Or a teenager.

Wtf?

/pol/tards aren't happy contaminating /int/? They have to fuck up /sci/ too?

>>6960512
>doesn't mention triple integrals

>>6965272
I'm a UCSD graduate and god that place fucking sucks. It's not a matter of race, it's just that
there's an entire lack of college atmosphere,
an antagonism against all things required for a college town,
a student population who feel like they're entitled twats,
the miserable quarter system,
an administration that literally declares "no fun" zones,
the sprawling campus that resembles an industrial park,
the classic tropes of "shitty tenured professor", "overworked TA/grader who regrets going to UCSD", "students who cheat", and
the nasty grade curve (some physical science/engineer courses only allot the top 15% to receive A's out of a class of 150).

>>6964403
lol, the only person I know who goes there is a hipster chick. You can't filter all of them out

>>6965805
/pol/lacks are the worst

good lord you're crippled without your IDE

>>6965803

Well, what he's saying is true.

>>6965841

So what you're saying is that UCSD is more about professionalism and getting your shit done then getting the fuck out rather than the college "experience" of partying and seeing how much alcohol one can consume? I'm liking UCSD more and more. I may transfer there if they accept me.

>>6965841
>the classic tropes of "shitty tenured professor", "overworked TA/grader who regrets going to UCSD", "students who cheat", and
the nasty grade curve (some physical science/engineer courses only allot the top 15% to receive A's out of a class of 150).

Lucky you never went to a Europe University.

>>6965983
If you are boring and just want a degree than UCSD is fine. Between all the reject UC schools go to the one that will cost the least amount of money.

>>6957191
>engineering level prob/stats course
That's mandatory in literally every CS program. I also compared the prob course to the "real" prob course in the math department and it was identical point for point.
>linear programming
Thankfully it is mandatory in many non-US programmes already, optimization is pretty important.
>numerical analysis
Agreed on that one.

>>6957253
>not xor swap
Scrub!
Also,
>murrican education

>>6965841
>only
Huh? I've never seen a single class allow more than 10% of people with an A- or above.

Though our TAs are plain retarded rather than overworked. Our professors tend to be great at being professors, but shit at being teachers.

>>6960512
The words are not courses, and are all mandatory year 2 or 3 CS subjects aside from real analysis and abstract algebra.

>>6958490
>the ideas behind single integrals in calculus 1 aren't that difficult therefore barnett integrable functions are trivial

>>6958490
soft dev is not cs

>>6966055

What's the cheapest uc/csu school that has a good engineering program?

>>6966236
When you apply the schools that accept you will, in general, give you different financial aid offers. For example I know a few juco transfers that are going to UC Irvine and Cal Poly Pomona on full scholarships. So you may wind up having to choose between paying for UCLA or going to Davis for almost nothing. Keep in mind that all the UCs and many of the Cal States are good regional schools.

>>6964460
(define (swap x y)
(if (null? x) ('())
(list y x)))
(swap 3 4)

>>6966465
oops.

(define (swap x y)
(list y x))
(swap 3 4)


>>6965194
>asians
>ugly

>>6957152

Don't get fooled by the book's title or author, it has little to do with CS and it's hard core math.

Discrete math, calculus I, logics, probability and statistics. These are one semester courses that I think touch the basics.

Also, algebra anon, I can't believe how many people don't know their algebra properly. I'm talking about basic properties of logs and such. I'm one of these poor suckers and I intend to fix it.

>>6958153
>real analysis

It requires only calculus really.

>>6957276
>95% of the CS degrees who applied for the position couldn't solve fizzbuzz.

Looks like someone doesn't know what modulus is.

>>6957293
>Do people really go into CS without a love of math?

God yes, most of them. A lot of people who enroll in CS quit after 1-2 years. Most of them think CS is just programming in java or something.

>>6958138
>I alternate days between studying precal/trig and calculus.

How the heck did you aced calculus without knowing algebra well, trig and precalculus?

>>6957152

Eh,


if (true)
{
System.out.println("I rule");
}
else {
if (false)
{
System.out.printlnt("I still rule");
}
}

Yea, programming is simple.

>>6958708

Ayyy cabron, is that a CS curriculum?

>>6965988
>Lucky you never went to a Europe University.

Explain yourself.

>>6958138
>aced calculus 1
Confirmed for either being a literal savant or attending a shitty university.

>>6966724

Computer science isn't just programming.

>>6966530
Yes. You need to step out into the real world yung NEET

>>6966760
I only took an intro course for CS (I got an A) and I was wondering besides programming what CS essentially is. We covered big Oh notation which came easy. What else is there?

>>6967212
programming by itself isn't even CS. It's like saying "hey I know how to write numbers, what else is math about?"

I think the big topics are:
- Algorithms & Data Structures
- Language Theory & Compilers
- Combinatorics & Graph Theory
- Artificial Intelligence

Software Development is a different field in computing, and has different problems.

>>6967212
At least at my school it goes:
-Intro Programming in Java and C
-Advanced Programming
-Data Structures and Algorithms
-Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
-Discrete Structures
-Theory of Computation
-Computer Systems

Only two programming ones for core classes.

>>6958330

>>6966699
It doesn't even require calculus and big-O notation is mandatorily taught in several courses, including algorithms, data structures, intro to tCS, intro electronics courses, and others.

>>6967212
>the shit in >>6966724
>worth anything but a D-
What shithole of a school did you go to?
Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_science

>>6965337
Ah the old XOR switcheroo.

>>6957253
(define (swap a b)
'(b a))

Git gud.

>>6966728
No, discrete mathematics. It seems to be what /sci/ would like CS to look like. I myself am glad I am on this course rather than CS or maths.

>>6967435
i love scheme

>>6957155
Underrated post