/sci/ - Science & Math

>>6936181
Math doesn't need any fixing. The problem are students. Can't fix stupid.

make math optional so only the interested ones or the autists will take math/physics courses.

>>6936181
Do this >>6923930

>>6936181
Calculus should really be taught in middle school. It would make high school physics much easier.

Stop letting mathematicians teach it/write the textbooks.

>>6936207
Well, there's the answer.

Just that I wouldn't teach Calc before Analysis.

>>6936207
this implies that commerce subjects are the pinnacle of mathemtics

Math for kids should immediately start with a number line. You start with 0. You add 1 you get 1. You add 2 to that you get 3. Take away 4 you get -1. This concept should be deeply rooted.

Introduce vectors way earlier. Avoid spending entire years on parabolic functions (this actually happened at my school).

>>6936666
No, they're done late because the students need to be mature and somewhat aware of the world around themselves to appreciate the subjects fully.

>>6936194

No, the problem is the system. When I was in school they had a normal math program, an AP program and they had algebra for the less advanced. Thus there were a certain amount of seats that they had already designated had to be filled with those who didn't do as well. Rather than getting everyone in the same math class they decided 'Hey, lets make sure that a certain number of students have to be put into something substandard, and even though they might not be dumb we have to meet that quota.'

But if I were to make the changes I'd want to show the breadth of mathematics rather than overwhelming students with big numbers.

Show how math can be used in different ways, Show theorems and Geometry, prime numbers and proofs, matrix equations and calculus. Demystify the sigma sum symbols and binomial theorem at an earlier age. Once kids know basic arithmetic spend the rest of high school on teaching them how to decode the sometimes overwhelming language of math so if they want to go deeper into math in college.

Another good idea would be to try to join math and physics more intimately in high school. Teach kids to be able to build basic predictive models using math and then execute those models in lab top experiments. Show math in its various forms and applications, and don't make its intention to be difficult with larger numbers as much as showing how it can be practical with more common everyday values.

>>6936829
>we need seats to fill
Can confirm. Got low Bs in all my math classes, tried to go for pre-calculus and then calculus senior year, counselor didn't let me because ''You didn't have an A, so I want you to try algebra III or trigonometry, it'll be better for you". Found out later that they filled pre-cal and calculus with A+ and honor students, maxed the class numbers and stuck everyone else in lower leveled math classes instead.

>>6936181
based on everything I heard from students, I guess it would be applications. Not anything complicated, but an idea of how its applied. Many people hate math because "That's never gonna be useful IRL! Why would I learn Pythagoras' theorem!?" And they dont realise that their everyday life depends on god damn maths and science

Here's another thought. Math as it is taught today is faceless. Students aren't taught about where math comes from and how it was discovered.

I think math should be additionally taught as history. If you start educating with basic mathematics, learning about Archimedes and Pythagoras and what they figured out you can work your way into Islamic math, Al-Karaji and Alhazen and the development of the scientific method, then you can discuss the development of Calculus, integral and differential equations, commutators and dot products With Newton, Leibniz, Lagrange. Who knows, You might even get up to Feynman QED or Reimann n-dimensional math, Eigenvectors. I think it would be great if students could be able to pursue higher math if it interested them so teachers should be able to personalize their work with students a bit more (Which means smaller and more expensive classrooms, I know) but it's important that students be taught that Math is also a story that has been passed down from ancient Greece through the Islamic world into the Renaissance and the enlightenment to the industrial revolution and the computer age which now stretches from the cell phone in your pocket to the Voyager probe crossing into deep space.

>>6936892
Many people don't get math because they don't learn the basics of science and engineering that use it.
Many people don't learn the basics because they didn't learn the needed math to learn the basics of science and engineering.
Many people didn't learn math because it's worthless to them because they are not learning the basics of science and engineering.

and so on

>>6936909
>Islamic world
>the enlightenment

>>>/out/

>>6936181
By providing students with text books that actually bother to explain concepts in careful and articulate prose, keeping in mind that much of mathematics and mathematical notation is not immediately intuitive, but it in fact born of aesthetic choices that are grounded in pragmatism.

I would give students a textbook that bothers to talk/walk them through the motivations for these aesthetic decisions, and that teaches through problem solving and application, rather than by forcing students to spend multiple chapters memorizing new notation before being given even a glimpse of a potential use.

>>6936181
Abolish the U.S. Department of Education. Explicitly disallow by law any federal mandate or other interference in the affairs of the nation's schools. Outlaw Affirmative Action hiring practices.

>>6936948
>implying that would help anything

>>6936948
That too. Throw out everything and replace it with federally subsidized vouchers, with zero (ZERO) curriculum requirements.

>>6936948
this would work out pretty well for a few states like massachussetts and connecticut, and result in absolute epic failure with kids having no access to anything resembling a decent education if they have the misfortune of being born somewhere like kentucky or florida

>>6936962
>yfw Florida has pursued exactly those sorts of policies, and now ranks among the top ten states in terms of primary education, despite spending nearly the least $$ per student

>>6936962
Why do you say that Kentucky and Florida would not be able to properly educate their children?

>>6936181
Abstraction early and hard. Society isn't fucked over by people who can't perform computational aspects of elementary functions or apply the law of cosines. Society *is* fucked over by people who can't think for shit and the rigorous argument style and reality of absolute knowledge endemic to pure maths would go a long way towards solving that. Who cares if some 40 year old salesman can't apply fubini's theorem to solve physical problems. The experience of having proved it once in his youth will have made him a decent person (hopefully)

teach it less formally

whats out now is compatible with autists, and the rest of the population get supplemental help via tutoring and other means

the problem with science in general is its too formal and therefore too dry

>>6936970
>>6936972
I guess Florida actually has significantly improved its education system since I went through when it was ranked #48, it's still pretty shit tier though.

Federal standards mandate uniformity, that naturally means they are going to be harmful for significantly above-average states and beneficial for significantly below-average states if they at all achieve what they intend to, in practice they don't work out very well at all and cause more harm overall than good but they're still giving kids in shitty backwards states a chance so they don't graduate high school with a knowledge of math up to algebra 2 and believing the most cutting edge science says god created the earth 6000 years ago.

>>6936972
As a person who has been through middle school and high school in a Kentucky public school. our schools suck. Plain and simple the teachers, boards of educations, curriculum, k-12 suck. University of Kentucky, or a select few schools in lexington are actually worth anything. Model lab is okay, because it's full of rich kids and is eku's teaching lab, so education research is up to date. Other than those few schools, Kentucky sucks as education comes.

>>6937001
>Imagining Illinois without FedEx education
Literally everywhere outside of Chicago would be a smoking crater of black people.

On the upside, Chicago would be mostly white and Asian.

>>6936974
>math is too formal in high school
Are you fucking serious? You ever taken a high school math class? You realize the entire notion of limits in ap calc is supplied by some "gets closer and closer to" bullshit. There's no formalism to be found. Absolutely none.

Also, when i was in high school taking a calc final, I stated the analytic definition of continuity to justify finding the limit of sine as x goes to 0 by evaluating sine at 0. I got no points because I "didnt show my work." Because I didn't say sine sent x *closer and closer* to 0.

>>6937016
In your opinion, what are the reasons that cause Kentucky's educational system to be so terrible?

>>6937092
We had the epsilon-delta (though we called it delta-epsilon for some reason which has had me screwed up ever since) definition of a limit in highschool calculus.

>>6937001
Let people teach their children how they see fit. You may be too inured to the idea of Americans having to be controlled.

Even if you did wind up with some schools that taught a "young Earth" theory, or even incorporated religion, I would bet that their graduates would be more well-read and scientifically literate, overall, than most college seniors of today.

>>6936207
>some autistic NEET's list of courses he wishes he had taken during college
kek

>>6937114

>>6937127
>2014
>getting trolled so easily

>>6937127
>implying I haven't taking all of those courses

>>6936948

You forgot to mention abolish gun control and bring back Jim Crow, ya fuckin' hick.

>>6937127
>some autistic cs major who thinks he is qualified to post on /sci/ and his lack of math abilities is reflected in the general population

top kek

>>6936855
>tfw that A+/honor student.
feels fucking good, bitch nigga. stay irrelevant.

>>6936829
>Show theorems and Geometry, prime numbers and proofs, matrix equations and calculus. Demystify the sigma sum symbols and binomial theorem at an earlier age
This is already done. I teach prime numbers and proofs to Year 8 (13yo), sigma notation to Year 9, binomial theorem and hypothesis testing to Year 10, and matrix algebra in Year 11.

>Another good idea would be to try to join math and physics more intimately in high school. Teach kids to be able to build basic predictive models using math and then execute those models in lab top experiments.
Again, we model projectile motion in Year 10, and then introduce vectors and differential equations to model resistance (∝v2) in Years 11 & 12 (16-17yo).

>No, the problem is the system.
Possibly just the school you went to? Or the teaching staff available?

>>6936909
I think math should be additionally taught as history. If you start educating with basic mathematics, learning about Archimedes and Pythagoras and what they figured out you can work your way into Islamic math, Al-Karaji and Alhazen and the development of the scientific method,
I teach history as a unit in Years 9 & 10. Generally the Greek heritage is taught universally, but I like to focus on the Arab/Persian/Indian influence around the middle ages.

>then you can discuss the development of Calculus, integral and differential equations, commutators and dot products With Newton, Leibniz, Lagrange. Who knows, You might even get up to Feynman QED or Reimann n-dimensional math, Eigenvectors.
Don't all high schools teach calculus? (Differential, integral, DE's, numerical methods)

Teach math formally from the very beginning, building on elementary concepts of set theory. They'll pick up basic arithmetic on their own since they live in the real world and it's necessary to function.

>>6936912
I find most people don't learn maths because:
- They're not taught how to learn
- They're not given a foundation in number facts from primary school or early childhood.
- They're not exposed to people who love maths and are highly skilled.

>>6937303
>>6936973
>>6936936
This.

>mfw I can not for the life of me do precalculus and I'm expected to take up to calc iii and integral equations for my major
I blane it on my high school but I'm probably just retarded since I suck at literally everything. Killing myself is such a hassle though and there is a world of pressure on me from family and friends to not drop out

Hey /sci/

I know you're about science and shit, but what I have to say is more important right now.

We have to stop m00t and his SJW whores from destroying this website. Stand with me and FIGHT!

>>6937314
M8 anyone can do calc just watch some videos, practice some problems and you'll get it.

>>6937320
There's a final on Saturday and I can't into remembering things. I studied for like 8 hours straight for a trig exam and got a fucking 50.I even studied with a friend for another two hours on the day of the test. Law of sines and cosines is easy and applying it to real life is easy. But then you get these proofs and yoy have to remember these annoying formulas and sometimes you have to factor out a sinx and solve the trinomial and sometimes you have to use a half or double angle formula or sometimes you have to use tan^2=1+sec^2 or sometimes this or sometimes that. Or what if you have to fucking divide the second number by two then fucking square it and add it to the other goddamn side?
How in god's name does one remember this shit? I fucking suck at everything

>>6937315
I support your war of terror!

>/pol/ did nothing wrong

>>6937328
>tan^2=1+sec^2
divide by sin^2 or cos^2

>annoying formulas
>How in god's name does one remember this shit

While synthetic geometry is a marvel of logical thought (those Greeks were gods), you really shouldn't be limited to it for proofs as no one ever remembers the arguments for them.

>Here a linear algebra proof of addition and double angle formula:

Let the unit vector in the x axis (1, 0) be
⌈1⌉
⌊0⌋
and the unit (basis) vector in the y direction be
⌈0⌉
⌊1⌋
Then the matrix A(ϕ) that rotates (counter clockwise) a vector by ϕ will take the unit vector in x direction to
⌈cos(ϕ)⌉
⌊sin (ϕ)⌋
and takes the y vector to
⌈-sin(ϕ)⌉
⌊cos(ϕ)⌋
Thus A(ϕ) equals
⌈cos(ϕ) -sin(ϕ)⌉
⌊sin (ϕ) cos(ϕ)⌋
Hench the unit vector at θ to the x axis will be rotated to θ+ϕ after applying A(ϕ)
⌈cos(ϕ+θ)⌉=⌈cos(ϕ) -sin(ϕ)⌉*⌈cos(θ)⌉
⌊sin (ϕ+θ)⌋=⌊sin (ϕ) cos(ϕ)⌋*⌊sin (θ)⌋

>Here a complex variables proof for reducing powers of cos or sin:

Notice that when we define
sin(θ)=(e^(iθ)-e^(-iθ))/2i
and
cos(θ)=(e^(-iθ)+e^(iθ))/2
that these functions satisfy the equation of the unit circle x^2+y^2=1 and sin(0)=0 and cos(0)=1 so these are valid parametrization of the unit circle. (These are in fact the usual radian parametrization which you can prove when you take the derivative of them with respect to θ and see that there is no constant multiple like in: d/dθ[sin(nθ)]=n*cos(nθ). But this isn't important as even without that knowledge using sin(θ)=(e^(ϕ)-e^(-ϕ))/2i and cos(θ)=(e^(-ϕ)+e^(ϕ))/2 the following results still are valid)
Now to calculate sin^n(θ) just multiply out [(e^(iθ)-e^(-iθ))/2i]^n and simplify by regrouping the real and imaginary parts. Do the same for cos^n(θ).

>>6937356
Sorry man we straight up didn't even touch matrices, I have no idea what that's saying. I know how to calculate a unit vector given points if that's what you mean. Also the only times we used e were in exponential functions like interest rates and stuff like that, I don't even know how to relate e to sin and cos at all

>>6937359
you just need to know how to multiply a matrix by a vector (http://www.mathsisfun.com/algebra/matrix-multiplying.html)) for the fist trick and e^x*e^-x=1 and e^x*e^y=e^(x+y) for the second trick

>>6937291

That's what I would like to see worldwide.

>>6937291
>>6937397
I'm already done with my first semester of college and I haven't seen or applied a single sigma in my life

>>6936181
First, I wouldn't have elementary schoolers waste six fucking years on basic arithmetic.

Then, I'd introduce proofs and relocate high school maths to junior high.

Every student should AT LEAST know how to do simple algebraic proofs by the time they enter grade 9.

No more worthless district textbooks.

Here, we do combinatorics in the 12th grade. b
Back when I was in highschool, I decided to study ahead.

The entire chapter was worthless, focused more on memorization than understanding the underlying concept.
There was no explanation of the actual operations behind the scenes, it was just plug and chug.

IB is even worse here, a major project is creating a couple of simple charts in excel, that's the final for their three part statistics module.

>>6937399

OK then. You can say that another way.

Σ(days sigma was needed) = 0

>come to sci for good threads
>read this shit
>apparently every single person's high school education is exactly the same
>/sci/ thinks it can fix 30 years of school cuts and privatization with introducing non autists to math earlier
>a post written by autists

>>6937403
:P

>>6937399
learn some cs theory on your own

This is how you fix math

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSJcu6ZO2zQ

>>6937408
We need MORE privatization and specialization along with an accreditation board certifying that students are getting a better education at these private schools with some sort of difficulty/content rating to allow selection between them.

>>6937421
>autistic and republican
>has never seen a ghetto

>>6937155
well I'm not insulted and I think what you accused me of isn't uncalled for. I actually agree with this guy >>6936973 and still think the guy in the other thread is a sperg

>>6937421

More privatization means only the affluent get a good education.

But that's the point isn't it?

>>6937432
Thank fuck someone also sees

Fuck the teachers union and their anti-privatization jihad. Replace them all with struggling postdocs that, while teaching and being paid at local high schools, will be free to do research at a nearby university in partnership with the school. Far better math education is guaranteed and the postdocs will have that much less of a nightmare to find work.

>>6937432

That kind of communism has KILLED education. Smart kids SHOULD get better education, and this inequality is a GOOD thing. See >>6936317

>>6937425
>implying I'm republican
>implying it isn't a fact that magnet/catholic schools ARE better than public schools

The only reason we don't fund private schools already is because the KKK hated Catholics and their policy of letting blacks attend their schools before the civil rights movement. There's no logical argument to prevent kids from spending their educational tax money at a private school today.

>>6937107
But you never did any real delta-epsilon proofs, I'd assume.

>>6937462
>See >> 6936317 →

Wow. I can hardly believe that ^this^ is actually a post on this board.

Evidently it's been a while since /pol/ types have decided to stop by /sci/

>>6937432

Yes.
More affluent people can afford better things for their kids. What is wrong with that?
They can also afford for their kids better living arrangements, better learning materials, tuition, better clothing, better nutrition, better holidays, better everything. That is what happens when you are rich. That is why it is good to be rich.


Education, just like anything else, is something that should be purchased. Communist tears that are essentially due to the hatred of rich people who want to provide for their kids are just as irrelevant for education as they are for everything else.

>b-but that's not fair!
Parents voluntarily paying a private organisation to educate their kids is perfectly fine. You should not get to decide that rich people do not have a right to spend money on bettering their kids.

>>6937478
I like it when faggots from Leddit and the like come to 4chan (and they all come to /sci/, probably after watching a Degrass Tyson fedora-tipping documentary) and pretend taht every board is leftwing except for /pol/.

Fuck off back to whichever shitty website you came from if you want an orgy of lefty nonsense.

>>6937482
Oh, and PS - the solution to education is permanent deregulation and privatization. It's as simple as that.

>>6937480

If society means that the rich buy success while the poor do not have access to the same means. It's oligarchy.

Taxes on the rich and corporate entities should be raised and the money directed downward to raise equal opportunity and stimulate the economy from the base up.

If Private schools were abolished and busing programs were put in place so that every school required the racial representation of the county then you'd see funding for inner city schools jump up real fast.

Rich whites don't like the idea, but in the long term if you move the tax burden onto those who can better afford it, fund scientific research, journalism and the arts, educate everyone equally and provide equal opportunity in the market, and stimulate the economy from the bottom instead of funneling all the money up to the top you have a more sound, more equal and stronger economy.

>>6937478
How is wanting most kids to be challenged and perform to the best of their abilities /pol/ now?

By communist education, I mean literally every student is forced to be the same. Not some tinfoil hat McCarthyism like "Marxist ideologies are being covertly force fed into them by their school books and we must ban them now" shit.

>>6937478

Moot is fumigating /pol/ by deregulating it below /b/ standards. But according to libertarians that just makes the current incarnation of /pol/ more free and thus better.

>>6936948

Voucher program to make public schools competitive. Department of Education should be dissolved tomorrow. PARCC is just the beginning.

>>6937499
>By communist education, I mean literally every student is forced to be the same
No one, and I mean NO ONE
NOT ANYONE
is advocating this

>>6937482
I've been on /sci/ quite a while anon.

The frequency of posts like yours has *vastly increased* since /pol/ became deregulated.

But you're right. Scientifically speaking, I shouldn't make the jump from correlation to causation so easily. But I should definitely be suspicious.

>>6936921

Yes the Islamic world you historical ignoramus. If it had been up to the medieval Christians to preserve math and science we'd still be living in forest cottages, fearing cholera and the plague.

>>6937492
>If Private schools were abolished and busing programs were put in place so that every school required the racial representation of the county then you'd see funding for inner city schools jump up real fast

No they fucking wouldn't. The rich will just send their kids to boarding schools in Europe. The middle class will just get a far worse education and risk falling down the social ladder even farther or continue to flee to the suburbs.

>in the long term if you move the tax burden onto those who can better afford it, fund scientific research, journalism and the arts

From better funded inner city schools?

>Rich whites don't like the idea

I'm not rich and anti-right and I think that's fucking retarded.

>educate everyone equally

spoiler: not all students are equal. Don't torture 99% of them because that 1% is a drooling retard.

>provide equal opportunity in the market

Equal opportunity in that no one knows anything is terrible and insane.

>>6937492
>If society means that the rich buy success while the poor do not have access to the same means. It's oligarchy.
They aren't buying success, they are buying am education service.
And it isnt oligarchy. It is freedom. You cannot tell people that they're not allowed to pay X amount for a legal service.

>Taxes on the rich and corporate entities should be raised
Eat the rich. Blablabla.
You buy something from a rich person, and then you say "Oh, by the way, that money I just gave you in the transaction, I'm going to have that back through taxation, because fuck you and fuck all rich people". You greedy scumbag.
>and the money directed downward to raise equal opportunity and stimulate the economy from the base up.
How about people just earn money?
It is hideous how socialists view the 99% as simple-minded charity cases incapable of taking care of themselves.

>If Private schools were abolished and busing programs were put in place so that every school required the racial representation of the county then you'd see funding for inner city schools jump up real fast.
Abolishing private schools abolishes a basic freedom to work. I want that freedom. I want to be able to visit a school, be told how much it costs, and decide whether I want to pay to send my kids there.
Leftists are so insane that they condemn the fact that people want to spend money on bettering their kids.


>Rich whites don't like the idea,
Indeed. White people, fortunately, are attracted to freedom and property rights.

>but in the long term if you move the tax burden onto those who can better afford it, fund scientific research, journalism and the arts
This already happens. This has happened throughout history.

>educate everyone equally and provide equal opportunity in the market,
Equal opportunity in the market means giving people the right to set up private schools if they want to.

>>6937492
>If Private schools were abolished and busing programs were put in place so that every school required the racial representation of the county then you'd see funding for inner city schools jump up real fast.

It's that kind of bull crap that causes this shit:
>>New York City school cuts popular gifted program over lack of diversity
>>http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/30/nyc-school-cuts-popular-gifted-program-over-lack-d/
>>http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/education/in-one-school-students-are-divided-by-gifted-label-and-race.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

All that ever happens is a terrible education for <span class="math">all[/spoiler] instead for just the <span class="math">dumbass[/spoiler].

>>6937530
You've come here from a shitty kids website for meme-spouting morons and you are pretending that everyone thinks like you.

This has been happening for the past few years.

I doubt you have been here for long. I've visited 4chan for 7 years now, and the idea that it is becoming more rightwing is ludicrous.

>>6937551

Wow. Nice misrepresentation, bordering on straw-manning by argument.

I'm not talking about program cuts. I'm talking about integration.

>>6937526
They are, just see >>6937492
>If Private schools were abolished and busing programs were put in place so that every school required the racial representation of the county then you'd see funding for inner city schools jump up real fast.
>educate everyone equally

What happens is they can't ~find~ enough students to fill advanced programs like calculus "diversely" and they shut it down because the calculus professor is ~clearly~ being racist like they did just this year and the year before that here: >>6937551

>soon
Hands up
Ban Calculus *fists raised*
Hands up
Ban Calculus *fists raised*
Hands up
Ban Calculus *fists raised*
Hands up
Ban Calculus *fists raised*
Hands up
Ban Calculus *fists raised*

>>6936936
Could you recommend a textbook like you described?

>>6937533

You're an idiot. The reason we lost so much was because the Islamic world burnt 90% of the manuscripts. They added very little to the mathematics they decided to keep.

>>6937533
>If it had been up to the medieval Christians to preserve math and science we'd still be living in forest cottages, fearing cholera and the plague

please be b8

>>6937530
Shut the fuck up. We just had a thread complaning about your fucking kind. All your posts say is "hurr >>/pol/" and absolutely nothing else. Fuck your political agenda. If you have a problem with a post point it out and don't resort to throwing names.

Additionally, board wars are fucking retarded. As that anon said, we don't have an identity here. We're fucking anonymous, we don't share your political views and we don't care about them.

So fucking contribute or shut the fuck up

>>6937565

Programs were cut because of the lack of integration. There simply aren't a lot of intelligence black kids around for whatever ::reasons::

Demanding equality is the same as demanding that any way to set oneself apart be removed aka educational communism. Smart kids doing advanced topics that other kids cannot is fundamentally unequal and should NOT be condemned but embraced.

Private school should be free and not abolished.

>>6936194
>Math doesn't need any fixing. The problem are teachers. Can't fix apathy.

>>6937616
>Math doesn't need any fixing. The problem are Mathematicians. Can't fix autism.

>>6937629
>Math doesn't need any fixing. The problem are engineers. Can't fix homosexuality.

>>6937565
He's not strawmanning anything. He showed the consequences of what you're advocating for very clearly. The part on taxes is okay, take more money from the ones who have more. The part on "educate everyone equally" is just what he showed. Sounds good, is actually awful. People aren't equal. Some people are inferior in some things because they don't have the drive or talent to succeed, or they don't want to. It's fine. People can be how they want to be, and wanting everyone to be equally focused on the goals of society is dumb.

British sixth form student here (i think thats senior year in america). The problem with maths at this level is there isn't enough emphasis on proof, or getting general results or anything that isn't just learning a method and plugging it into different questions. I'm Taking the STEP course as i'm looking to apply for Warwick and its such a shock how difficult the questions are, in comparison to what we're doing in Further Maths.

>>6937586
>>6937597


The golden age of Islam gave the modern world it's numeral system, algebra and the scientific method. This is due in part to the fact that during this time Islam was highly secular. Arabic numerals and mathematics, which drew from both Greek and Indian sources formed the foundation for modern science.

This was being done while Europe was treating scientific research like witchcraft and burning people alive for suggesting anything other than 'muh Jeeziis' as the solution to abstract problems.

>>6937543
>>6937544
>>6937551
>>6937574

>But my money!

Your money isn't yours. It's printed by and regulated by the government. The government has the right to regulate the economy through taxation and public spending. That's just the way civilization works. The question is who is best off to bear the highest tax burden. That's not to say you tax the rich until everyone has the same amount of money no matter what they do but how can you tax in such a way that the successful are rewarded without being to the point of exploitative of the less fortunate.

I'm not looking for equal treatment regardless of results. I'm looking for equal opportunity regardless of economic status. That's not to say that we should get rid of failing status either. I don't want schools dumbed down to protect the egos of the under-performers I want it smartened up for the achievers, even economically poor ones.

That's also not to say that I want to make the questions trickier or inaccessible. What I want is for mathematics to be more broad to show more of the functionality of math like in >>6937291. If students can't do it? Fail 'em. Do so in a way that finds strengths that they may be better at, but fail them. I'd actually like personality testing to go into schools so students can find out what they are good at, what they are bad at and begin to shape their own individuality earlier on. Make high school more college-like.

>>6936808
If I could "like" or "thumbs up" your post, I would.

>>6937676t
the majority of math students are engineers, and for them proofs are worthless. Proofs do not help you build better machines, etc.

in california math people take a proofs course then algebra/analysis. this forms the core of what we call upper division courses.

>>6938021
You realize you're not ever gonna get anyone on your side except for other poorfag nerds who are an insignificant fraction of the population and have basically zero social influence right?

People who are at all well off or successful, even successful nerds aren't going to support you because it directly means their kids are going to get a shittier quality education. Because you want to legally ban them from giving their kids a high quality education.

Which also means anyone who actually cares about liberty and freedom is going to oppose you unless they are a huge hypocrite. Not that that is a lot of people.

But you are also going to turn pretty much every egalitarian leftist and socialist completely against you. Because most poor kids are dumb. Maybe they're average but they're certainly not above average. And now that means they're going to fail. And getting passing grades in a bullshit flawed as fuck system so you're qualified for the next level of social progression is a whole hell of a lot better for the individual student than getting failing grades and being completely barred from any gainful employment beyond menial labor.

College is for students who are self-motivated to learn. Very few high schoolers are that self-motivated, practically none are when they're 14 year old 9th graders. You can't make high school more like college without throwing the vast majority of students under the bus, it's just not going to work, they are not going to take the initiative to study and learn on their own like you want them to. And frankly no matter what you may think failing 2/3 of students from getting a high school diploma that is supposed to be nothing more than proof of basic competency and the ability to do bullshit menial jobs like a secretary is fucking retarded.

The current trend seems to be to make college more high school-like so everyone gets to go and graduate which isn't much better but nevertheless.

>>6937414
An explanation of why you do not divide by zero would require a basic understanding of proofs and the real numbers classification as a field, along with field axioms. An explanation of infinity minus infinity would require an understanding of the epsilon delta definitions for functions, series and sequences. These explanations would be long winded and leave the student no better, however I think they should still be explained, if prompted. I agree with your video somewhat.

>>6938045

Oh, God, when will moot fix /pol/ so the conservatards can get back to the Jewish banking Illuminati alien reptiloid conspiracy and leave the rest of us alone?

>>6936181
Dunno if that's what you meant but as much as I like Mathematics and I think it'd be nice if everyone knew a little 'bout it, Calculus is not used on the life of, let's say, someone who sells apples. You know? Imo high school should have, of course, specific sciences knowledge, but mainly what you be useful for you even if you don't follow that particular area
erm

>>6936181
Put more emphasis on understanding of the concepts and providing incentive for learning, motivation is a big factor in captivating the attention of a mind.
Way I was taught maths was like this black box you plugged formula into and just itterated over mindless steps to mechanically change one value into another.

Because I despised maths class. First upon learning physichs and starting to build stuff I got interested in mathematics and applied myself studying it.

>>6938052
>>/tumblr/

"Conservatard" gave it away.

>>6938052
>someone disagrees that private schools should be made complete illegal and everyone should be forced into the same autistic education system where the majority of students fail
>/pol/

No, you fucking autistic retard, get the fuck out.

>>6936181
Don't incorporate high-school maths. It's like teaching kids obscure computer instruction books. Most people would hardly ever use it in their lives

>>6938081
>>6938080

I have zero interest in continuing an argument with anyone who is willing to take the side of 'Focus on privatizing education for the rich kids because the poor kids are dumb.' You conservative anti-social oligarch assholes.

>>6937471
I did. But my high school math teacher was very passionate and unique. We had proof based calculus courses for AP calc. in my high school, 2 of them, and they were as in depth as a standard calculus course in college would be.
Now, having taken real analysis since then and everything, of course they were not quite as difficult as that, but they were comparable. However, I understand that my high school experience in that way was fairly unique and we reminded so every day.

However...it worked. But I don't think it would work everywhere. The high end math classes in my high school pushed the kids to obsess over the class and drove them to do exceptionally well. The teacher adjusted the difficulty of his tests to be harder and harder so that every single student, even those who were clearly extremely advanced ivy-bound mathematics types, would struggle over some problems, while the bottom of the class would still be able to grasp the gist of it.
In most schools though, I don't think it would work. It was just the culture where I was, which was a public high school by the way, but in a very very rich area. And it was completely segregated, effectively, between AP students and non-AP students. So the AP students had a culture of being used to classes comparable to real analysis and college literature courses, etc.

>>6938118
Thanks, anon, clearly we wouldn't have reached an agreement and pretty much anything else is a better use of my time than trying to reason with some autistic commie kiddie, you guys are like the sanicfags of politics.

>>6937482

Lol that sperglord's thread you linked to seemed to conveniently ignore that all Soviet education was free and produced some of the greatest mathematicians we have today (Perelman).

>>6938021
>I'm looking for equal opportunity regardless of economic status.

Only insomuch as it benefits you.

You personally are vastly richer than the vast majority of people on Earth. WIll you share your wealth with them? Of course not. You are only interested in sharing wealth so long as you stand to benefit.

>>6938154

Get some glasses to fix your short sightedness.

>>6938045
>You realize you're not ever gonna get anyone on your side except for other poorfag nerds who are an insignificant fraction of the population and have basically zero social influence right?

But have just as much political influence as everyone else the day they realize where to cast their vote, and when the do they'll outnumber the wealthy by far.
As it is the rich will keep getting richer until the poor becomes educated enough to realize their own situation.
I suppose in the best interest of the parasitic top strata to tamper with voter registration and bar as many people as possible from quality education for this reason.

>>6936181
Every year over 6 gorillion unarmed black teenagers shoot themselves after witnessing racial hatred on /POL/. Reblog and upvote this tweet if you stand with Ben Garrison against racism and bigotry.

CluckCluckCluckCluckCluckCluckCLUCK
ORIGINAL CASTLE DO NOT STEAL

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>>6938183
The phylogenetic tree of Y-DNA shows that Blacks have not evolved next to white people.

White people can revert back to a primitive self, and share the same Haplogroup as Blacks, whereas Blacks cannot evolve into what whites are.

Science says blacks are primitive compared to the evolved white people.

>>6938185

Moot, are you seeing this? See what your purge has wrought? Fix /pol/ already. Send the shit back to the toilet.

>>6938200
moot point, as moot as already pressed the destruct button.

>>6938185
sources?

>>6938177
>>6938021
>>6937492
This guy gets it

>>6937544
>>6937543
These dont

It's funny how people keep defending capitalism (which is basicly an oligarchy nowadays), only because they think they'll all be a billionaire one day.

Spoiler alert: you're probably not going to make it big.

Did you know the median household income in the US is $50,502? The median household income in Europe is lower, than how come people in Europe are on average happier than an American citizen?

Because it's not about money, it's about equal education, investing in public space and other "communist" shit.

>>6938177
>>6938021
>>6937492
This guy gets it

>>6937544
>>6937543
These dont

It's funny how people keep defending capitalism (which is basicly an oligarchy nowadays), only because they think they'll all be a billionaire one day.

Spoiler alert: you're probably not going to make it big.

Did you know the median household income in the US is $50,502? The median household income in Europe is lower (in countries with +- the same cost of living as the US). Then how come people in Europe are on average happier than an American citizen?

Because it's not about money, it's about equal education, investing in public space and other "communist" shit.