/sci/ - Science & Math

>>6787431
I should add that the reason I thought it didn't seem so bad was because I like Vygotsky a lot, so their acknowledgement of education as steps, and not letting kids pass on without having gotten a grasp on certain concepts that are necessary for later learning seemed very prudent.
So how can one have such a reasonable grasp on education and then come up with this bizarre line of thought, in regards to math?

>>6787431
>Not using base 13

>>6787431
It's a single lesson trying to teach mental math. Trying to get numbers to multiples of 10 makes mental math in a base 10 system easier.

Is it bad that the teacher's response enrages me?

"Oh, I'll just read the question anysowhateverfuck the way I feel like just 'cause, yknow"

8+5 = 13. Or 10 as base-13 anon points out.

>>6787431
>what exactly are they trying to teach children with this kind of ass-backwards thinking?
That everyone is equal no matter what.

Back in the 2000s, we had the idea that we should do everything it takes to make dumb kids as smart as smart kids. That didn't work, dumb kids stayed dumb no matter how much money or however many afterschool programs we threw at them, so now we're bringing the smart kids down the the level of the dumb kids.

American parents care more about their kids feeling good about themselves then they do about their kids learning anything. Some kids being smarter than others makes the dumb kids feel bad, so the priority is stopping that.

>>6787445
Sure, but if they're teaching that 8+5 "can be 10" just because somewhere along the process there's a 10 there, that's pretty misleading.

>>6787450

This. It's really fucking ambiguous man. I hate questions like this. "Oh I'll just take 8+2...........then add 3?"

>>6787448
Wow. So instead of being a median curriculum, it's a lowest common denominator curriculum? That's literally NOT what you should be doing, because it flies in the face of everything Vygotsky thought about development.

If you do it that way, instead of it being a system that bars progress until the person understands the concept, and only then is allowed to proceed, it's a system that doesn't engage more advanced students for the sake of slower ones. Equality is about equal opportunity, not this Harrison Bergeron shit where they dampen people who are more skillful.

>>6787458
>Wow. So instead of being a median curriculum, it's a lowest common denominator curriculum?

Yes. Basically, our government has realized they'll never be able to close the achievement gap any other way because our minorities are barely above mentally retarded.

>>6787467
Hey now, that's unfair to say. The schools in poorer neighborhoods tend to have less funds and lower expectations of students, which is why statistically minorities achieve less. Not to mention a shitty fucking culture around some groups of black people where if you study or want to learn shit you're "acting white".

If this program was implemented with the intent of students progressing at their own pace, WITHOUT limiting the progress of the more gifted ones, I doubt anyone would have a problem with it.

>>6787431
>that question

I would not be able to answer it because what the fuck is it even asking

>>6787439
aside from this I would have no other rationale

>>6787472
Black guy accused of "acting white here " can confirm this

Also
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1602387?uid=3739704&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21104257793831
http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/amp/59/2/77/
http://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED486417

>>6787431
>How to make 10 when adding 8+5.

"Just do 8 + 10 - 10 + 5 = 13."

>>6787472
Nothing* matters more for academic success than parental prioritization.
Kids whose parents didn't read to them, have a lot of books around the house, etc., are pretty fucked from the get-go.

When a certain demographic group now has 3/4 of its children born to single, generally young and uneducated mothers, no amount of dollars or effort on society's part is going to be able to fix millions of kids in a dysfunctional subculture.

(* excluding genetics/heredity, since that's a topic for /pol/ at this point)

>>6787475
Holy shit thanks for the papers man.

>>6787472
>The schools in poorer neighborhoods tend to have less funds and lower expectations of students

There have already been multiple attempts to shower all-minorities school with all the money they could want and the best teaching staff and they still failed to improve themselves.

>Not to mention a shitty fucking culture around some groups of black people where if you study or want to learn shit you're "acting white".

And this culture only exists because black communities are so devoid of intelligence that they don't value it, and SJWs foster it by telling them it's okay for them to be retards because it's their culture, much like it's their culture to be criminals.

>>6787458
We already had pretty mediocre quasi-national standards as most states use the same damn textbooks (which aren't to good to begin with).
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324482504578453502155934978?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424127887324482504578453502155934978.html

>>6787431
>>6787474
>>6787477

26 year old Mexican who's in Calculus I at a CC here. It's suppose to teach that anyone is able to extract and combine different numbers to get the answer someone wants. Think of it like square roots.

Example:
sqrt8 = sqrt4 * sqrt2 --> 2sqrt2.

>>6787467
>>6787472
>>6787475
>>6787479
>>6787483

go to
>>/pol/ all of you

>>6787483
>multiple attempts
>i'm not going to show you any of them

>>6787483
>SJWs foster it by telling them it's okay for them to be retards because it's their culture

Man, you're the retard here if you legit think that.
People in black communities fight this culture because they know it only works to further devalue black people.

And I'd like some examples for that first claim. There's plenty of room for fucking up, injecting money without a clear method to achieve better results doesn't mean much.

>>6787498
>People in black communities fight this culture because they know it only works to further devalue black people.

And they've utterly failed. Because humans, let alone blacks, would rather be told that other people are the problem and not them.

>>6787472
>less funds and lower expectations of students
Lower expectations is a legitimate concern, but less funds means nothing. During the 2000s, billions of dollars were poured into education, mostly in poor neighborhoods. Achievement gap didn't change in the slightest.

And while poverty does have something to do with it, it is very strongly correlated with race. White and asian parents value education and push their kids to learn, and white/asian kids then prize intelligence and ostracise the stupid, motivating everyone to work harder if they can. Black and mexican parents don't value education and send their kids to school just for the free food. Black and mexican kids only prize strength, and blacks in particular actively ostracise anyone smart for "acting white".

If a black 18 year old has a part time job, a drivers license, and a 2.5 GPA everyone acts like that's the most incredible thing in the world and they talk about how much they had to struggle to reach that level. If a white 18 year old doesn't have a job, drivers license, or GPA over 2.5, people wonder what's wrong with them and call them retarded.

Well this topic devolved quickly.

>>6787467
>>6787508
see >>6787497 and
http://www.oecd.org/edu/eag2013%20%28eng%29--FINAL%2020%20June%202013.pdf

>>6787472
In terms of standardized test scores:
Whites raised white > blacks raised white > whites raised black > blacks raised black

Black culture and black genetics both contribute to lower levels of intelligence on average.

>>6787515
>at a glance
>a 440 page glance

Sweet jesus.

>>6787508
>Black and mexican kids only prize strength

Sadly, this is true.

>>6787472
>If this program was implemented with the intent of students progressing at their own pace, WITHOUT limiting the progress of the more gifted ones, I doubt anyone would have a problem with it.
Then go ahead and doubt, because that's what was done throughout the 80s and 90s and everyone lost their shit. Parents care much, much more about their child having high self-esteem then they do about their child learning anything. Schools are pressured, not to teach children well or to help the smart kids excel, but to ensure uniformly high scores among all students, that way there are no stragglers who will then feel bad about themselves.

In the 2000s we tried doing that by giving the dumb kids extra help. We called it No Child Left Behind. It didn't work; dumb kids are just fucking dumb. So, now we drag everyone down to their level and act like there's no consequences for doing so.

>>6787508
>If a white 18 year old doesn't have a job, drivers license, or GPA over 2.5, people wonder what's wrong with them and call them retarded.

I love demanding/expectant cultures, even if it make some people snap and turn into serial killers.

> imagining shame of being asian with a shamefuru GPA of 3.8, dad threatening to seppuku

>>6787529
There is a longstanding farce in America that we are a more or less classless society.

It's a fuckload more efficient to divide kids up by ability and have separate college-prep/trade school divisions, etc., like in Europe, but it's politically impossible.

>>6787515
Holy fuck, man, I'm as open to reading papers as the next /sci/entist, but that's a fucking encyclopedia.

>>6787532
Now it is. Back in the 1990s when I was in elementary school that's exactly what we did. There was the main student body, the remedial classes, and the advanced placement classes. Then 2000 rolled around, everyone's balls fell off, and we got rid of all of that.

>>6787540
Inflation-adjusted per-student primary/secondary education costs have slightly more than tripled in the US in the last 35 years.

Students are not in any measurable sense better now than they were in the 60s.

It turns out that throwing money at problems doesn't always work, especially when most of the budget increase goes to administrators, various flavors of counselors, and hand-holding for retards.

>>6787431
How can you make 10 when adding 2+2?
>you can not make 10 with 2+2
Yes you can. Take 8 from 2, and add it to the other 2. (2+8=10)
Then add -6.

>>6787431
>Like, what exactly are they trying to teach children with this kind of ass-backwards thinking? I remember seeing other examples of Common Core teaching that were as mind-numbingly confusing as this.

It seems as though CC arithmetic lessons have a supreme hard-on for beating the mechanics of the base-10 place-value system in a way that might (?) make future lessons in algebra more intuitive.

Forcing kids make written explanations of otherwise rote steps, etc., seems like massive overkill that will just bore and frustrate the smarter students.

>>6787569
>that will just bore and frustrate the smarter students.
and confuse the dumb ones.

>>6787556
Rebellious anon! Who told you about - numbers? Why do you want to put people down by bragging? Please follow the program, we're here to teach you!

>>6787580
>and confuse the dumb ones.
For a sufficiently dumb student, no possible curriculum wouldn't be confusing anyway, so that shouldn't be the issue anyway

>>6787556
>>6787582
The greentext is the student, the teacher wants the kid to do every addition by first forming 10.

>>6787431
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this methodology teaches students to subtract from addends so that all the "complexity" is incrementally pushed from one to the other?

E.g.:
237 + 185 ->
230 + 182 + 10 ->
210 + 100 + 10 + 100 ->
... ???
422

I'm not seeing how this sort of approach is mentally any easier than New Math style or other older approaches.

>>6787431
What exactly is confusing about this? Do you not understand what base 10 means?

>>6787447
No, it's bad because you don't understand the question or the answer.

>>6787646
>>6787649
Not previous anons, but it seems counter-intuitive that subtraction is being taught as an instrumental part of adding two single-digit numbers.

There have been enough examples floating out there about the centralization on the concept of "making ten" that's it's hard to distinguish what is a one-off point of principle versus being a mandatory calculation method.

>>6787661
What subtraction?

The only thing being done here is splitting 5 into 2+3. The 2 can be added to 8 to make 10. The 3 is then added to make 13. This teaches the student how to think in terms of base 10 rather than just memorizing what numbers add up to.

>>6787664
But how is a student to know that 2 is needed to make 10 with 8 unless they either iterate by 1 until it works or they have a list memorized?

It seems like it's adding extra steps for the benefit of only needing to memorize a 1D table instead of a 2D one.

>>6787664
>What subtraction?
>The only thing being done here is splitting 5 into 2+3.

Implying splitting is not subtraction.

>>6787676
The student should know how to add up to 10. If you know how to add up to 10 then all addition and subtraction in base 10 becomes trivial.

This is not the only method taught for addition. Math is not about simply memorizing a method for each operation and problem type, it's about understanding. This exercise gives a basic understanding of addition in base 10.

>>6787681
>implying splitting is subtraction

>>6787693
not your fault that OP's example has basically zero context, but

> lots of citations needed

>>6787699
>Googling needed

>>6787649
>doesn't understand the question or the answer

Really? Why do we need to be able to write that, along the way from 8->13, we pass 10?

>>6787492

Whoa dude, looks like we got an expert in this thread

>>6787712
>We
You are an adult. You already understand addition, although obviously not very well.

>>6787705
> in thread about potentially ineffective didactic methods
> baselessly claims correctness and insists everyone else go do the open-ended legwork to prove he's not full of shit

you can do better than that, son.

>>6787718
This isn't a debate retard. I'm simply informing your ignorant ass. Fuck off.

>>6787717
Still not getting what you think I don't understand here.

Yes, it's clear that in base ten, when we are using integers, there are points that we can get to between 8 and 13 that will give us 9, 10, 11, 12.

I still don't understand why part of CC is "getting to ten." It seems irrelevant if you understand why you're sticking the 1 in front of the 0 in the first place.

Common Core is just what granny math was decades ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIKGV2cTgqA

>>6787718
>I still don't understand why part of CC is "getting to ten."
Then you don't understand what "base 10" means.

>It seems irrelevant if you understand why you're sticking the 1 in front of the 0 in the first place.
Do YOU understand? Because it seems like you don't.

>>6787724
>I'm simply informing
exactly what you're not doing, you worthless condescending fuck

>>6787746
Seems like I did inform you, you just don't like the answer. What exactly is bullshit about my answer? Did you bother to look up the reasoning behind this method before you started posting about it? I guess not.

>>6787745

God you're thick.

>>6787751
The entire premise of the thread is that parts at least of CC math is overly pedantic bullshit.

Everyone asks for evidence to the contrary, e.g., curriculum overviews showing OP's piece being only a small but well-integrated part.

You repeatedly say, "the evidence is there, retards".

If you don't want to just sound like a prick mouthing off, you need to do better.

>>6787758
>Says the guy who doesn't understand an elementary school math problem

>>6787760
>The entire premise of the thread is that parts at least of CC math is overly pedantic bullshit.
Actually the premise seems to be "I don't understand this question, therefore CC makes no sense and has no reasoning behind it. I will not even entertain the thought that children are being taught this for some reason."

This has nothing to do with evidence. There is nothing to be proven. The intent is obvious and transparent.

>>6787766

Nobody doesn't understand it. I think the teacher's explanation is poor and the question itself is shite.

The student is incorrect, no doubt. But fuck me if I'd have answered with anything other than a question mark given the statement:

>tell how to make 10
>when adding 8+5

It's a fucking stupid question

>>6787773
You're original post clearly shows you don't understand the question. Of course, context matters. You probably wouldn't have gotten this question wrong if you were being taught about it. Unless you weren't paying attention.

>>6787778

I'm going to stop after this because this must be bait.

You're solving 8+5. You can't just "forget" about the extra 3 after "making 10." That's why it's stupid. Like the 3 is an afterthought of the addition that you can ignore because

>omg I get to go from 08 to 10 and increase my tens unit!

>>6787540
What are you talking about? Here in Texas our high schools have three tiers of high school diplomas: basic, recommended, and distinguished. There's also regular classes, pre-AP (the default), and AP as well as dual credit. There are most definitely divisions in intelligence.

This is all coming from someone who just finished high school last year. I went to two high schools in Lubbock Texas and graduated in Austin.

>>6787431
This is one of the most developmentally ignorant approaches they could have taken in teaching math.

The vast majority of children (90%+) do not begin developing abstract reasoning skills until about 5th grade or later.
All this "theory-laying groundwork" for 1st/2nd graders will be completely lost.

Toppest of keks, educators.

It's the same sort of thing as the one where the kid has all the answers correct but they are all marked wrong because they were asked to find the "friendly" numbers.

They are trying to teach kids to do math in their heads. In my day we were just taught the regular algorithm (carry the one and all that shit) and then we figured out little tricks like this to do math in our heads on our own.

8 + 5 = 13
Most people just know this as a fact. No need to write it out or consciously use tricks to figure it out.

Take one side and make it a 10. Let's say the 8. We need 2 to add to the 8 to make it 10. Subtract 2 from the 5, add 2 to the 8. Now the problem is 10 + 3 = 13. Most of us figured this out intuitively when we were little kids and never really thought about it again. Same thing works for the other way around. Take the 5. We need 5 more to make it 10. Subtract 5 from 8, add 5 to the 5. Now the problem is 3 + 10 = 13.

I'm guessing not everyone figures out the little tricks like this intuitively, because they are not that bright or whatever, and those are the people who were considered "no good at math." The weird common core lessons like this one are trying to spell it out for the dim bulbs.

>>6787783
>You're solving 8+5. You can't just "forget" about the extra 3 after "making 10."
Where are you getting the word forget from? Personally, this is exactly how I add 8+5 in my head. I split the 5 into 2 and 3 and I get 13.

>That's why it's stupid. Like the 3 is an afterthought of the addition that you can ignore because
The question is not about the number 13, it's about how you add. There are many ways to get 8+5=13. This is trying to teach a specific way of thinking.

It's not that hard to understand.

>>6787792
>Personally, this is exactly how I add 8+5 in my head. I split the 5 into 2 and 3 and I get 13.

No adult does this any more than he or she would draw a map of the state they live in to recall its capital's name.

After the 10th or 20th time in your life of having to use this piece of knowledge, I'd have hoped you could just remember it.

am i the only one who memorized 8 + 5 and others like 9+7

i did it 10 trillion times before. i just know it now. i don't need to stop, add to 10, and think about it.

>>6787811
Wrong, dumbass. Plenty of people do it.

>>6787817
>dumbass
>has to break simple arithmetic into parts

>>6787817
rain man in action, ladies and gentlemen.

>>6787792

If the question is about

>how you add

I would not reasonably expect a grade-schooler to be able to articulate this beyond "we call numbers certain names, and if I have a certain number with another number I call it a different name"

>>6787817
>Plenty of people do it.

>>6787811
>not drawing the entire map of a state to get the capital

>>6787823
>I would not reasonably expect a grade-schooler to be able to articulate this beyond

yeah, no shit. kids don't transition from the "concrete" to the "formal" (i.e., abstract reasoning) operational stage of developmental psychology until about 11 years old on average.

So you either delay teaching arithmetic until 6th or 7th grade, or all the fun new methodology ends up being wasted and potentially even detrimental.

>>6787823
>I would not reasonably expect a grade-schooler to be able to articulate this beyond "we call numbers certain names, and if I have a certain number with another number I call it a different name"
That's why they're being TAUGHT this you fucking retard. Damn.

>>6787818
>>6787822
>>6787824
samefag

>>6787876
> thinking he can go on /sci/, claim to need to use place-value algorithms to add 8 and 5, and not be considered retarded and/or a sperg by multiple individuals

>>6787431
What kind of question is this even? Numbers don't just come from anywhere, this kind of question is retarded. Why not (8+5) +/- x = 10?

>>6787439
kek

>>6787431
http://pastebin.com/f86PCpVa

>>6787914

> non-mathematically oriented education major teaching the class
> twenty to thirty 6 year olds of wildly differing abilities in a room
> half of them probably have unstable home lives
> virtually none of them have any abstract reasoning capacity yet
> pray to John Dewey that somehow standardized test scores go up this year

American education, folks.

>>6787924
dats wascist

Common core as they are calling it is not a bad way to teach, but the teachers suck ass at teaching it. They need to retrain a whole generation.

>>6787904
>Thinking people don't recognize samefag

>>6787498
>Man, you're the retard here if you legit think that.

dude they tell them that it's totally fine to raise their kids on 'ebonics', resulting in a bunch of adults who can't even speak or write proper english.

>>6787580
>and confuse the dumb ones.

also confuse the smart ones.
there's no way to just read OPs question and come up with their desired result unless you've seen the same or similar answers before. it just doesn't follow from the question at all.

>how can you make 10 with 8 + 5?
the correct anser is that you can't. they then weasle their way around that by arbitrarily splitting the result into 10+3 just to say
>see, there's a 10 :^)

this shit isn't useful for anything, nor of particular interest for advanced math curriculum. i don't understand why they would waste time and resources on fucking with the kids minds this way. doesn't accomplish anything but confusion and a feeling of 'wtf is this shit?'

>>6787771
>The intent is obvious and transparent.

only once you've seen the solution.

if you have no idea what they want from you, a question like
>how can you get 100 from 25 + 34?
just makes no sense.
>hurr just add 41!
is a correct anser. as is
>just add 44, then subtract 7, then add 4!

but it's completely pointless. if you want to teach kids addition, first teach them to count properly so they can use the decimal number system, then give them a bunch of exercises of the
>X + Y = ?
style to practise on.


no needless confusion, just the facts they need to know.

>>6787431
The idea is to teach kids to think like this
8 + 5 = 8 + (2 + 3)
= (8 + 2) + 3
= 10 + 3
= 13

This makes it so that not only do they understand why 8 + 5 is 13, but they understand the process necessary to show it's true (as in a mathematical proof).

>>6788003

I could say the same thing about any American English and claim they are tarded because they aren't speaking proper Queen's English. Ebonics is a coherent dialect of English.

>>6787823
>I would not reasonably expect a grade-schooler to be able to articulate this beyond "we call numbers certain names, and if I have a certain number with another number I call it a different name"

Technically they are correct from a formal mathematics perspective. If you construct your natural numbers with the peano axioms, then a+b is defined to be just a number with a funny name.

>>6788014
>only once you've seen the solution.
Speak for yourself, tard.

>how can you get 100 from 25 + 34?
>just makes no sense.
Yes, but that's because it has nothing to do with the concept of the original.

Try, "how do you get 100 from 64+55?"

>>6788014
Holy shit, how does someone obviously not understand the premise to such a simple question. You are dumb as shit, bro. What the fuck are you even doing on /sci/?

If I were a parent I would scold that teacher for correcting a correct answer. My son/daughter would've answered what the question asked. There is no reason to dumb him down.

>>6788022
you know the difference?
american english is the de facto national language in america. if you want to make it in any way, that's the language you will be using.
not niggerspeech.

parents not teaching their kids the national language is fucking retarded and borderline child abuse

>>6788024
"subtract 14 from 64 and 5 from 55, then 50 + 50 makes 100 :^)"

it's still supremely retarded to shoehorn kids into one particular way of doing addition in their head. i sure as hell don't add numbers that way. i'd use something like

>64 + 55
>60 + 50 + 4 + 5
>110 + 9
>119

which seems to work way faster in my head at least

>>6788022
>ebonics is a coherent dialect
>ebonics
>coherent
lolwat

>>6788051
>>6788032
I'm not that guy, but he's right. AAVE is just another dialect of English with it's own structure and rules not unlike Britbong English.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American_Vernacular_English
http://web.stanford.edu/~zwicky/aave-is-not-se-with-mistakes.pdf

On some technical notes,
>The US doesn't have a National Language, though a few states do.
>AAVE is still English, just a different dialect.
>AAVE derives from several southern dialects that aren't spoken anymore. Technically it is an American English.

Also
>i'd use something like...
That's exactly the same thing they're doing. The point is in giving kids the tools to conceptualize what is happening behind the scenes so that they can properly formulate questions/problems.

The way the old system worked was by teaching kids how to compute the solution when the problem was given in specific formats. Kids would be given pages of almost identical problems to solve (with just a few words or numbers switched). Unfortunately this meant that kids just memorized the process for each format and never understood it and worse were unable to cope when given a question in a format they hadn't already seen. As a side effect of this students taught in the old way often have a lot of trouble being able to properly write an equation for a question and in some cases unable even to properly ask the question in the first place.

>>6788081
>Unfortunately this meant that kids just memorized the process for each format and never understood it and worse were unable to cope when given a question in a format they hadn't already seen.

this never happened to me, nor to anybody i know.

>AAVE is just another dialect of English
irrelevant. the vast majority of americans don't understand it, that's all there is to say about it.
you dont go into a society with your own language and demand everybody else to learn your language. you learn the language everybody else is using. end of discussion.
not teaching your kids proper english is setting them up for failure in every area of life.

dialects exist in every language. here in germany most states have their own, very distinct, dialect of german. the thing is that these are never used in a formal setting. you try going into a job interview ant talk to the interviewer in bavarian dialect? into the trash you go.
there's a reason we use unified/standardised versions of languages in formal settings, you know. if everybody were allowed to use their own shitty dialect, nobody would understand each other anymore.

>>6788089
You are obviously brain damaged so allow me to dumb this down for you.

>this never happened to me, nor to anybody i know.
That isn't sufficient to prove it doesn't happen. It is however a very common problem, so much so that it permeates into Universities (this is why Engineering versions of math classes are referred to as "recipe classes" by students and professors alike).

>irrelevant. the vast majority of americans don't understand it, that's all there is to say about it.
Irrelevant to what, exactly?

>you dont go into a society with your own language and demand everybody else to learn your language. you learn the language everybody else is using. end of discussion.
It isn't a different language. It's English, just a different dialect.

>The rest of your retarded post.
Most speakers of AAVE speak in both dialects with native proficiency. There's only sparse pockets where people only speak AAVE and if you lived within those pockets you would not be well prepared if you only knew Standard American English. That would be analogous to living in a Chinatown or Russian district where those are the primary languages used. There is afterall a reason that the United States doesn't have a national language.

>>6787924
How realistic is this?

I'm in Canada and this is unimaginable even in the most diverse schools. Then again, I stayed out of the applied-level courses after Grade 9.

>>6788092
>Most speakers of AAVE speak in both dialects with native proficiency.

that's obviously how it should be.

>There's only sparse pockets where people only speak AAVE and if you lived within those pockets you would not be well prepared if you only knew Standard American English. That would be analogous to living in a Chinatown or Russian district where those are the primary languages used. There is afterall a reason that the United States doesn't have a national language.

not teaching children the de facto national language of the country they live in is moronic no matter if they speak chinese, russian or niggerese.

fortunately, pretty much every asian american speaks proper english. the days of self-segregation in 'chinatown'-like quarters are long gone.

>There is afterall a reason that the United States doesn't have a national language.

in 2014 there really isn't.


>>6788092
>It is however a very common problem

maybe among sub 90 iq people (read: retards)

>it permeates into universities
bullshit.

>this is why Engineering versions of math classes are referred to as "recipe classes" by students and professors alike

not true either. engineers are neither interested in deep and complex background math, nor does their field require it. engineers use math as a tool to get their job done, nothing less and nothing more. no reason to waste time on hard and long proofs when all you're ever gonna do is apply a set of formulae and computation routines.

>>6788095
>How realistic is this?

it sounds a lot like certain schools in germany. those with >90% turks and arabs, mostly located in specific parts of berlin and other major cities.
they're notorious for violence among students, violence against teachers, lots of crime and abysmal test scores.

>>6788099
>Chinatowns/Russian Districts/etc.. don't exist anymore.

You obviously don't live in a city.

>bullshit.
Obviously is amongst those recipe class students.

>not true either. engineers are neither interested in deep and complex background math, nor does their field require it. engineers use math as a tool to get their job done, nothing less and nothing more. no reason to waste time on hard and long proofs when all you're ever gonna do is apply a set of formulae and computation routines.
Which is why they don't understand shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYqXlRQrBN4

>>6788101
>1/16th of an inch
>3 feet

murricah!

ok seriously, do your engineers actually work with these ass-backwards numbers? i thought at least all the serious stuff was done in metric units, no?

>>6788100
The United States has a fucked up school system. It boils down to a small handful of problems.

1) The school you go to is chosen based on the part of the city you live in. You have to show proof of address to in order to get admitted to the school. If you lie and claim you live somewhere you don't you can get in trouble (some schools send people out to verify that students live at the addresses given, at times this includes entering their rooms and shit to verify it. You can find videos on youtube).
This, combined with the fact that cities are often segregated by race and wealth classes means that schools also end up segregated. The poor/colored kids go to one school, the middle class/middle class kids go to another school, and the wealthy/white kids go to another school as well.

2) Schools get government funding based on how well the students perform on standardized testing. They can also get funding through their own means (fundraisers and such).
This means that schools with shitty students get shitty funding. Furthermore, schools in shitty neighborhoods don't get much from fundraisers or other sources.

3) Teachers get paid based on how well students do on standardized testing. So often they pool all their resources into test taking and don't give a fuck about anything else. In shitty schools many teachers just don't really care or try. It is difficult for a school to fire a teacher (this has caused a lot of controversy recently).

All this combined with a starting point of shitty schools starting off shitty means that the whole thing becomes self-perpetuating. Shitty schools become shittier, wealthy schools become better, middle class schools stay about the same.

I imagine this isn't really a problem in Canada since most of your cities are so much smaller than American cities and contain a fraction of the population. Fact is that those shitty schools are pretty much just seen as a lost cause in the United States, you'd be a fool not to.

>>6788101
>You'd think someone with a name like 'Weinberg' would be good at math, considering he spends all day counting his shekels.

sometimes yt comments are good

>>6788109
>i thought at least all the serious stuff was done in metric units, no?
It depends on what you're doing. Science stuff is done mostly in metric minus a few exceptions. For example, weight is measured in pounds or newtons, but mass is measured in grams (as I understand it, metric countries measure weight in units of mass). Whenever the context is real life people typically talk in English units rather than metric since people are more familiar with them on an intuitive level.

Temperature
>0 degrees = cold as fuck
>100 degrees = hot as fuck

Distance
>A foot = about the length of your forearm
>An inch = about the length of your thumb

etc...

>>6788111
>The school you go to is chosen based on the part of the city you live in.

how else would you do it? if everybody could choose their school freely, the schools with a good reputation would be overcrowded as fuck and eventually end up as shitty as the already shitty schools.

the only alternative i see is that students can apply to any school they want, and if a school gets more applications than it can take in, it will select the students based on an entry exam.

>Schools get government funding based on how well the students perform on standardized testing.
>Teachers get paid based on how well students do on standardized testing.


this seems like a bad idea to me. places too much focus on specific test answers and encourages teachers and schools to make their students learn test patterns by heart, which is really not a good way of learning something.

>>6788119
>how else would you do it? if everybody could choose their school freely, the schools with a good reputation would be overcrowded as fuck and eventually end up as shitty as the already shitty schools.
You would need to change both the funding system and the admission system. This is what I would do:

1) Let students go to whatever school they choose.
2) Fund schools based on the number of students they receive.
3) If a school has less than a minimum number of students then close it down, make a lot of changes with input from the good schools, and reopen it. Possibly also provide incentives to teachers from good schools if they choose to switch over to a school in the process of being overhauled (this way good teachers keep moving instead of just pooling in the good schools).
4) If a school exceeds it's number of students then either open another campus somewhere else in the city (possibly replacing a shitty school) and provide the school extra funding so that it can grow.
5) Make it easier to fire shitty old teachers and provide better wages for old good teachers as well as new teachers.

This way teachers actually have to care about the level of education they're providing and students actually get a say in which school they go to. The whole thing is driven by market forces so bad practices should automatically fix themselves.

I know there are some other countries that have this system in place. There have been some attempts to popularize it in the US in the past but it has been met with a lot of resistance from teachers.

>>6788126
>1) Let students go to whatever school they choose.
>2) Fund schools based on the number of students they receive.

immediate overcrowding of good schools will ensue.
good schools now have plenty of shitty students that bring down the school.


>3) If a school has less than a minimum number of students then close it down

enjoy not a single school in poor areas

>4) If a school exceeds it's number of students then either open another campus somewhere else in the city

so we close down the shitty schools nobody wanted, then we see that our good schools are now filled with all the retards and dragged down by them, then we rebuild the former shitty schools and hope that they become better schools if we throw enough money at them?

let me tell you, schools aren't shitty because they're underfunded. schools are shitty because their students are shitty, and you can't fix shitty people by throwing money at them.

What's the problem with common core?
non-US here.

This is exactly how I learned myself to add numbers

>>6787784
You might aa well give up posting facts. People just want to complain that children aren't learning math the exact same way they'd prefer and already have a habit of blaming everyone else, so you end up with this thread.

>>6788118
The "imperial units are more appropriate for everyday use" argument is nonsense. It's all just a matter of getting used to it. If you've grown up with kilograms, meters and celsius you just know that a bottle of milk weighs a kilogram, a bar of chocolate weighs 100 grams, two meters is the height of a door, a grown man is about 1.8 meters tall, 20°C is the usual temperature indoors and so forth. It's just a matter of experience with the numbers.

When I was a 12 our currency got substituted by the Euro. In the first few weeks I always calculated what the price of stuff was in the old currency (it was luckily just the factor 2), but after a few weeks I just knew the prices in Euro.

There are no better measures for stuff, units are basically completely arbitrary. What is however obvious, is that dividing your unit with numbers like 6 or 12 or whatever you guys are doing, is pretty backwards. I know it, it's the same useless bullshit with seconds and minutes.

>>6788133
Shitty students more often than not want to go to quick alternative schools that will just get them through the system. Not challenging schools with all sorts of extracurricular programs and activities.

I didn't say schools were shitty because they were underfunded nor that throwing more money at them would fix the issues. I shifted the emphasis from test scores to market forces. Yes, good schools will probably be overcrowded initially, but that gives them incentive and ability to grow. Afterall, there are many talented people who are willing to travel across town on a daily basis to get to and from school, these people would benefit from not being restricted to the school assigned to them by their area.

>>6788153
Because it's longer and more complicated than the proper way

8 + 5 = 13 is much easier than 8 + (10 - 8) + (5 - (10 - 8)) = 13

>>6788188
well sure if you write it out like that
when you say proper way do you mean memorizing the sum of each possible pair of the numbers 1-9?

In my head I do it

8+5 = 10 + 3 = 13

>>6788179
>you just know that a bottle of milk weighs a kilogram, a bar of chocolate weighs 100 grams, two meters is the height of a door,
All of these are standards that people in metric countries choose because they live in metric countries. In the US the weights and volumes of those things are measured in ounces/liters/gallons in nice round numbers (i.e. a bottle of milk in the US is not a kilogram).

>a grown man is about 1.8 meters tall, 20°C is the usual temperature indoors and so forth.
These are actual things that you get used to that aren't a side effect of the standards of the country. However they're also not nice round numbers at all. 1.8 meters sounds really arbitrary. By the way, 1.8 meters is almost exactly 2 yards, a much nicer number.

>>6788188

That's because you're doing it wrong you idiot.
refer to
>>6788021

>>6788190
who the fuck measures his length in yards?

>>6788191
>>6788189
You leave out steps.

Either way, it's still much easier and faster to do it the proper way.

>>6788192
You're right. People measure height in feet. 2 yards is exactly 6 feet. Still people intuit heights pretty well using feet.

under 5 feet = kid size
5.5 = short for male, average for women
6 = average for male, tall for women
6.5 = tall for everyone
7+ = giant

>>6788194
what is the proper way then?
memorizing?
that's stupid

>>6788196
8 + 5 requires no more memorization than 10 - 8.

>>6788194
Actually, This way
>>6788021
is the formal correct way to do it. No steps were omitted, each step invokes an equivalence, simplification, or associativity.

>8 + 5 = 13 is much easier than 8 + (10 - 8) + (5 - (10 - 8)) = 13

This way makes no sense, the only reason anyone would ever do this is if they're either brain damaged or only do math through rote learning.

>>6788198
Where are you even getting 10 - 8?

>>6788200
How do you get the amount to add to 8 to get 10?

>>6788201
Holy shit dude, you take it from 5.

5 = 2 + 3
so 8 + 5 = 8 + (2 + 3) = (8 + 2) + 3 = 10 + 3 = 13

>>6788205
And how do you know to take 2?

>>6788190
>All of these are standards that people in metric countries choose because they live in metric countries. In the US the weights and volumes of those things are measured in ounces/liters/gallons in nice round numbers (i.e. a bottle of milk in the US is not a kilogram).
Yes, which is what I was saying. People get used to the numbers. Also how is that in any way simpler:

SI: 1 km = 1 000 m = 100 000 cm = 1 000 000 mm, 1 kg = 1 000 g = 1 000 000 mg etc.

Imperial: 1 mile = 1760 yards = 5280 feet = 63360 inch
1 gallon = complete fuckup
1 stone = 14 lbs = 224 oz

I had to look every single one of those and I'm pretty familiar with the imperial system because everybody on 4chan posts their height in weight in units of what they shat today. Why are there thousands of units for everything? It makes no sense. Nobody can memorise all that stuff.

>1.8 meters sounds really arbitrary.
So, 20°C is 68°F. Is that a nice, round number? You see, it's completely arbitrary. You can't make up units that have nice round numbers for everyday stuff. You can chose one or two, but you'll always end up with ugly numbers for something.

>>6788206
because 8+2=10

it's less memorizing to know what numbers add to 10
instead of the sum of all possible pairs 1-9

>>6788195
that's just because you grew up with it
height in cms come intuitively for me

>>6788211
It's funny how people who grew up with SI absolutely intuitively get that it's all a matter of habit, but people who grew up with imperial units are apparently too stupid to get it.

>>6788195

temperature on the other hand is pretty simple
0°C = freezing point of water
100°C = boiling point of water
room temp ~20°

meanwhile fahrenheit has no convenient numbers coinciding with useful thresholds at all

>>6788209

Is it? Seems much of a muchness to me, only "making a ten" first is an unnecessary step.

>>6787431
This seems counter-intuitive as fuck.

>>6788209
>it's less memorizing to know what numbers add to 10
>instead of the sum of all possible pairs 1-9

when i was in school we had to learn the products of all the numbers 1-9 by heart

we'd call it the 2-series, the 3-series, ...
up to the 9-series

we'd have to go like "7 times 2 is 14, 7 times 3 is 21, ... , 7 times 9 is 63"

for all the numbers. i still know all of them, which has turned out to be extremely convenient.

>>6788208
No one uses stone anywhere except maybe England.

English has fucked up conversions because it tries to have units of practical sizes. Centimeters are too small and meters are too big if you're trying to do stuff like eyeball the height of a bunch of different books in your room. Most of the things we deal with are at the scale of feet and inches. As a side effect this is also why you sometimes see random metric units being used in the US alongside English units (liter for example is very common). The reason is that people approach units based on practicality.

>>6788215
>0°C = freezing point of water
>100°C = boiling point of water
>room temp ~20°

Freezing point and boiling point of water just aren't that practical. The weather gets much colder than the freezing point of water in Winter and it never even comes close to boiling point of water in Summer. 100 degrees F was originally supposed to be the human body temperature but was off due to a fuck-up, either way 100 degrees F is about as hot as it can get during the Summer (if it breaks 100 then you know it's one of the hottest days of the Summer). Similarly with 0 degrees F, it's pretty much the limit of how cold it gets during the winter (without accounting for wind chill, of course). When it's below 0 degrees F you instantly know it's one of the coldest days of the year. Room temperature is 75 degrees F.

If you're cooking something then stuff like boiling point does matter but even then the Fahrenheit scale is more finely grained so heating something up to 210 degrees F is easier to do precisely than heating it to 100 degrees F.

>>6788219
1+9 = 2+8 = 3+7 = 4+6 = 5+5 =10

vs

1+1=2, 1+2=3, 1+3=4, 1+4=5, 1+5=6, 1+6=7, 1+7=8, 1+8=9, 1+9=10
2+2=4, 2+3=5, 2+4=6, 2+5=7, 2+6=8, 2+7=9, 2+8=10, 2+9=11
3+3=6, 3+4=7, 3+5=8, 3+6=9, 3+7=10, 3+8=11, 3+9=12
4+4=8, 4+5=9, 4+6=10, 4+7=11, 4+8=12, 4+9=13
5+5=10, 5+6= 11, 5+7=12, 5+8=13, 5+9=14
6+6=12, 6+7=13, 6+8=14, 6+9=15
7+7=14, 7+8=15, 7+9=16
8+8=16, 8+9=17
9+9=18

And yes, I do believe I have som degree of autism.

>>6788227
We did this too and it has been very useful, but is is not what's being discussed.

>>6788227
We did this too, multiplication tables and shit. I never memorized them, I just computed each one from the last one.
For example,
If you know that "7 times 2 is 14"
then "7 times 3 is [14 + 7]"
Really all you're doing is adding 7. Doing it this way I always finished way before anyone else.

Really the method is retarded though because it only works with integers, the intuition breaks down as soon as you have to work with irrational, transcendental, complex, etc.. numbers. Anyway, common core is meant to get rid of all that. We live in a time where smartphones and wolframalpha exist, who knows what kind of world these kids will live in when they grow up. Probably one where computation isn't as important as conceptualizing things, dealing with abstractions, and formulating questions.

>>6788229
>No one uses stone anywhere except maybe England.
Oh, another random fact about imperial units that you need to know to use them. Sorry.

>Centimeters are too small and meters are too big if you're trying to do stuff like eyeball the height of a bunch of different books in your room.
Then take 2 centimetres or 10. Oh, I forgot that you are retarded, then you can't do that of course. Thank god you live in retard country.

>The weather gets much colder than the freezing point of water in Winter and it never even comes close to boiling point of water in Summer.
Good observation!

>100 degrees F was originally supposed to be the human body temperature but was off due to a fuck-up, either way 100 degrees F is about as hot as it can get during the Summer (if it breaks 100 then you know it's one of the hottest days of the Summer).
Wow, now THAT is practical. No way I could do the same with the Celsius scale by memorising a different number than 100, say 40.

>Room temperature is 75 degrees F.
More like 70°F. How is it less arbitrary than 20°C?

>but even then the Fahrenheit scale is more finely grained
Thank god the Celsius scale is not grained at all.

You are used to the imperial units, that's why you can't see that it's an unnecessarily complicated system.

>>6788234
memorizing the multiplication tables comes extremely handy when dealing with a lot of stuff. a ton of operations (multiplication of fractions for example) boil down to multiplication of integers, and knowing the digit products by heart lets you multiply integers very fast.

>>6788229
>either way 100 degrees F is about as hot as it can get during the Summer
>Similarly with 0 degrees F, it's pretty much the limit of how cold it gets during the winter

in what part of the world?

at least with 0°C you know that shit's gonna freeze when the temp is below it...

>>6788238
No one uses decimeters, and really by dealing with units of 2, 3 or 4 centimeters you're really just inconveniencing yourself. Sure it will be easier to convert your measurement to meters or millimeters but be honest with yourself, when would you ever have to?

>More like 70°F.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_temperature
73-75
>How is it less arbitrary than 20°C?
Because it's just 3/4ths of the way between the coldest and hottest temperatures you're likely to encounter. Maybe it helps you to think of it as a percentage bar?

>Thank god the Celsius scale is not grained at all.
They're just integers, as in a countably infinite set. Of course they're grained, it's not like they're real numbers.

>>6788111
We also have this in Canada.
>1) The school you go to is chosen based on the part of the city you live in.
But only until middle school, and since you are talking about standardized testing, I'm guessing the US keeps it up through high school. Here you get to choose high schools since some of them can have exclusive specialized programs.

>>6788241
Most of the US. I think Texas and Arizona (hotter states) get up to 110 degrees during the summer. Freezing temperature isn't that cold compared to how cold it can get.

>>6788133
>immediate overcrowding of good schools will ensue.
We could use some four-story high schools in North America.

>>6788246
>They're just integers, as in a countably infinite set. Of course they're grained, it's not like they're real numbers.
Of course they're real numbers, just like the Fahrenheit scale are real numbers. Temperature is a physical quantity, they're always assumed to be reals.

>Because it's just 3/4ths of the way between the coldest and hottest temperatures you're likely to encounter. Maybe it helps you to think of it as a percentage bar?
No, it's not a percentage bar. There are temperatures outside [0°F,100°F]. All it does is confusing people. And 3/4 is very arbitrary, still.

>No one uses decimeters, and really by dealing with units of 2, 3 or 4 centimeters you're really just inconveniencing yourself.
And by using a unit that is the 12th part of another unit (inch) you are not inconveniencing yourself?

>>6788021
Isn't this something you learn naturally?

Do these kids actually understand the usefulness of this shortcut? I don't know if the parents are just complaining about common core because the kids don't or the parents don't either.

>>6788251
>Of course they're real numbers, just like the Fahrenheit scale are real numbers. Temperature is a physical quantity, they're always assumed to be reals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definable_real_number
They're integers. Though the line itself represents the continuum, we can't actually express most of the numbers on it. At best we can only represent the definable real numbers.

>No, it's not a percentage bar. There are temperatures outside [0°F,100°F]. All it does is confusing people. And 3/4 is very arbitrary, still.
That's why I said it may help to think of it that way. Not that it is that. 3/4ths isn't arbitrary, it's to be expected that a comfortable temperature should be about 3/4ths of the way between the the coldest and hottest temperatures you're likely to experience in your everyday life.

And by using a unit that is the 12th part of another unit (inch) you are not inconveniencing yourself?
No, because I'd never have to convert it. If I'm looking at the height of a bunch of books on my shelf then I could estimate them all to inches and that would be fine. It would never be useful to talk about them in feet, nor would it be intuitive.

>>6788255
Good god, I can't believe there are people out there intelligent enough to use a computer that still defend the clusterfuck that the imperial system is.

There's still no real convincing arguments in what you say, just weird assumptions about what people expect and like to work with. There's no point to it.

And still, the Celsius scale is NOT integers, they're rationals at least.

>>6788273
>they're rationals at least

You were doing and dropped your spaghetti at the end.

>>6788255
>I'd never have to convert it

i see height measured in X feet Y inches all the time

Everyone who complains doesn't like it because they were taught differently. Just as people have always done when educating methods change. Even though this new way seems weird, it actually improves mental math, something many people are bad with.

>>6788304
of books?

>>6788317
people you dipshit

whe cares about book height anyway? never measured any, dont see why i would want to unless i have severe space issues in my room

>>6787693
>>implying splitting is subtraction
>implying "splitting" is a mathematical operation
What's the symbol for "splitting"?

>>6788320
People measure their precise height, they don't compute it. They also never have to convert it to miles or yards or anything. Whenever someone else gives you their height you measure it in comparison to your own (e.g. "you're 3 inches taller than me"). In practice there really isn't an issue with conversion of imperial units since things are typically already in their most practical unit. Afterall, imperial (like many older systems of measure) was designed to measure practical things that people dealt with in their day to day life (hence why the conversions are all bullshit). This is also why metric is used for anything science related.

>>6788345
It's decomposition of the identity predicate in your underlying logic (in other words, you note that "x = a + b" and then use substitution).

>>6788311
>it actually improves mental math
proof?

>>6788320
Not that anon, but I like to know if a textbook will fit in my shelves.

>>6788354
It's the way we think about things. Take the method you probably learned in school where you have one number ontop of the number you subtract from it. This is in opposition to taking it apart and doing it piecewise. The latter seems like a waste of time when you write it out (and it is), but when you do the calculation in your head, you use this method. Same for addition, multiplication, and division. You don't write out long form in your head, you do it piecemeal to quickly reach a solution. After doing this for a few years, these students will probably be better at mental math than we are.

>>6788362
But 5+8 = 13 in my head is easier than all of those.

It is simple addition

If you want to be autistic about it then do the base 10 thing or do this (1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1) + (1+1+1+1+1).

This doesn't improve jack shit.

>>6788374
The 8 + 5 is just a simple starting point. In school we started small too. The point of this problem is to showcase piecewise addition to make nice numbers. 8 +5=8+2+3=10+3=13. Now suppose 527+293= 700+27+93=720+100=820

>>6788392
>527+293

500+200=700
20+90=110
7+3=10
700+110+10=820

There's no need to break it down if all you have are ones-place numbers.

Granded, I was taught to take the little number and put it on bottom while putting the big one on top and work from right to left. That took longer.

>>6788458
The way you outlined is exactly how they're learning it, as they get older and better they will require less steps but fundamentally this way is the same as 8+5.

>>6788458
IMO, fast mental arithmetic is more about being able to intuitively choose the best trick in your bag for the particular problem at hand.

In you case of 527 + 293:
> what's the quickest way to move information from one side to the other?
> 93 is only 7 away (found trivially by method of complements) from clearing out 2 digits, let's look at that
> can I take 7 from 527 easily?
> yup: 520 + 300, trivially addable to 820 since there are no carries

Breaking things apart is virtually fail-proof, but reality shows that not everybody is capable of seeing optimization patterns to do things through potentially easier ways.

>>6788362
No studies

arlgith that's cool then stop posting unsourced bullshit

Solve 9 - 12

9 - (6 + 6)
(9-6) + 3
3 + 3 = 6

9 - 12 != 6

Proof that Common Core is stupid and its shills need to gtfo /sci/.

>>6788362
>You don't write out long form in your head
Excuse me

so you can make any number lower than 13 with 8 and 3? makes perfect sense

>>6788671
No, that guy isn't using the CC method. The CC method is to break things apart and go to either 5 and/or 10, then add/subtract. That guy just broke them into their respective places and added.

>>6788458
>>6788683
I'm not sure about you guys, but seeing
> 527 + 293 = ?
or even better
>_527
>+293
>------
is a lot different from hearing
> "what is five hundred twenty seven plus two hundred ninety three?"

The prep-work conceptualizing the addends is at least half the work for me.
Any time something is written down, adding the mental visual annotations of partial results is trivial, since I don't have to keep the mental register space for the addends themselves.

In the vertical presentation above, I can calculate the answer in ~1s by just adding places front to back and remembering to increment that places that resulted in a carry.
> 710 and carries from ten's and one's place (i.e. +110) -> 820

How often does someone need to give a perfectly correct, mentally calculated answer with more than 2 significant digits of precision to a spoken arithmetic question?

>>6788696
What are you even trying to do?

>>6788696
amen

>>6788726
He proved rigorously that you're an idiot

>>6787431
The fundamental oversight in both New Math and CC Math is that they radically overestimate the capacity of young children to do much more than regurgitate facts or apply simple instructions.

If at 7 years old you could actually understand the patterns in the math methodology you were being taught, congratulations, you aren't/weren't the target of mainstream math education anyway.

>>6787811
i do it and im a mathematician
i've actually fucked up summing 3 single digit numbers

>>6788808
Congrats, you are aware that it's entirely possible to be good at mathematics and poor at numerical computation/calculation.

Meanwhile, this thread debates whether children not raised reading Bourbaki are doomed to being Best Korea- or merely Mexico-tier peasants.

>>6787447

I know, especially the "then add 3"

"All children love the number ten" the CC lady said
(and those who don't get medicated into submission)

>>6788845
oh yeah, that.
i think it's uncool because it really dicks with how you logically understand mathematics. like, what the fuck are they even asking? kids barely understand what an equals sign means, and i'm talking clear up into college. they should stop trying all of this cute shit since it's going to cloud minds and make kids into potatoes, and focus on things like "what is an equals sign" since most students don't seem to understand that it means the two things are equal so adding 1 to one side of the inequality only doesn't preserve the inequality. it's a really fundamental error too.
i'd almost wager that some people aren't made for math, and our education system should stop trying to cater math education toward them while holding back the best. it seems like that's part of what common core is doing.
i think at this rate, maybe only mexico-tier peasants. we'll see though.

>>6787811
I don't like to memorize outcomes when I can figure them out nearly as fast as needed.

>>6788894
That's fine, but the long term cost-benefit balance is against you if you haven't internalized basic arithmetic tables by adulthood.

When I was in 2nd grade, we had to make our addition tables ourselves, then memorize them, and then repeat that with multiplication.

I don't see how something like performing long division can be done very efficiently without having multiplication tables known by heart.

>>6788971
Perhaps unexpectedly to some in this thread, long division doesn't appear to have changed much in CC:

> http://www.commoncoresheets.com/Math/Cheat%20Sheet/Long%20Division%20Full/English/1.pdf

Maybe raw speed isn't as emphasized as much as it used to be, but the internal operations still rely heavily on long subtraction and multiplication.

>>6788032
>it's still supremely retarded to shoehorn kids into one particular way of doing addition in their head.
Where did you get the idea only one way of doing addition is being taught?

>>6788111
>Teachers get paid based on how well students do on standardized testing.
False. Fuck off, liar.

>>6788392
537+293=

(530+300) - 10 = 820

Fuck all of you.

>>6788971
im in grad school for mathematics and i never memorized my times tables dude, it is not an important exercise it is generally a waste of time

>>6789145
>537+293=820
Back to elementary school

>>6789186
It's well established that advanced academic mathematics has very little to do with practical arithmetic.

If your brain is not capable of easily forming and recalling long-term memories, it is probably good that you are pursuing a career where you can fall back on your abstract reasoning skills alone.

>>6788871
That's not what an equals sign actually means though, anon. Sounds to me like you never studied it in university.

>>6788208
>no one can memorize all that stuff
Are you fucking kidding? You have to be shit at math to not be willing to learn less than like a dozen conversions. Don't even get me started with basic physics
>9.8m/s^2
>32ft/s^2
>13.6 eV
>3*10^8m/s
>6.626*10^-34 J*s
>6.022*10^23 particles/mol
>all those fucking trig formulas (and I don't even know Euler shit or angle mutiplications)
If you can't memorize shit, that is why you are bitching about math being "not understood". You literally don't know what you're talking about.

Fuck, I literally know every map layout in competitive games I play, the name and attributes for every weapon in TF2, every unit, cost, and attack patterns/speed rations in RA2/C&CG. Do you seriously find thinking or remembering THAT FUCKING HARD?

>someone in the thread actually said Celsius only has integers
>took like 30 posts for someone else to say it didn't
Jesus, what is wrong with you guys.

>>6789452
>Doesn't understand the real numbers.
>Calls other people stupid.
lol

>>6789186
So great, we'll have 99% of people who can do proofs but never go to college for them, and the same 99% won't be able to balance a checkbook or estimate grocery costs, or even figure out how much money they'd be fucking making because they're too dumb to understand how you'd multiply wage times time to get their gross pay. They won't even be smart enough to understand the difference between gross and net pay. i.e. gross - taxes/etc = net pay is not a valid equation in common core. The subtraction sentence should instead say gross = taxes/etc + net pay! Much better!

>>6789461
>There exist people this dumb on /sci/

>>6787786
do you have a source for that because that seems really late to just begin thinking abstractly

>>6789490
He is wrong, but he would not be wrong in a completion of language sense. By age 10, if you haven't learned a language, you don't ever, under normal conditions. Not his intention, but if a child hasn't been introduced to certain methods of abstracting and optimizing, they will probably only be able to do pure rote from then on. People who are more willing to do bullshit math actually tend to be more incompetent at thinking, it is a common thing among more pure fields like law, medicine, etc.

>>6788023

Didn't know that about the formality aspect. That's kind of how I've always thought about numbers.

It's not like there's some "reality" outside of our own creation determining the relationship between two numbers.

So I could add fish + tree to get apple as long as it's internally consistent.

>>6789490
>>6789502
He probably referring to the Jean Piaget's timeline of cognitive development, which marks significant points of distinction from neonatal all the way to adulthood.

> Sensorimotor: <2 y.o.
> Symbolic: ~2-4 y.o.
> Intuitive: ~4-7 y.o.
> Concrete Operational: ~7-11 y.o.
> Formal Operation: ~11-late teens

Intuitive stage is where kids don't even understand "basic" shit like the fact that pouring a liquid into a different shaped container doesn't change the volume.

Concrete Operational stage is characterized by kids being able to generalize, use simple inductive reasoning, and apply logic to concrete, immediate problems and situations but not really to hypothetical ones.

Formal Operational stage is when kids have started being able to use deductive, hypothetical, and symbolic reasoning.

The claims above that you can force younger kids to do symbolic manipulation patterns but that most will be literally incapable of understanding why is born out by a fair degree of observational research.

>>6788118

>metric countries measure weight in units of mass

This confuses the shit out of me.

>US: lb/N weight/force -- kg mass
>Elsewhere: kg weight/force -- kg*(m/s^2)^-1 mass ????

I get that it's the same relationship, but what is the mass unit called in the metric system then? I always thought kg WAS metric mass.

>>6789568
He means when someone asks "how much does it weigh?" they are not asking about the physics definition of weight, while the answer they are expecting is technically the mass.

>not getting 20 Newtons of beef from the butcher

>>6788178

I don't care what way they learn it, but I don't think it's fair to any of the kids to give them this sort of shit question instead of TEACHING them the relationship, and letting them apply it on their own.

Call me an elitist but I really don't think it's the student's intelligence levels bringing them down. It's probably more nurture and overall environment plus shitty stigma for being seen as "smart."

I grew up in the South and this kind of shit was everywhere among my black + mexican friends.

Fucking jamal and enrique getting pissed at everyone for learning faster because they didn't listen to the people saying, "dude, you should probably study and learn shit--you're smart, don't get stuck on the streets."

I guess I have a lot of deep-seated racism towards some minority "cultures" rather than towards the people themselves. I don't give a shit if they have the same beliefs, unless those beliefs are causing them measurable difficulties in real life homogenized society.

I mean, jesus, it's not like other cultures haven't come here before and "assimilated" without losing their unique traditions (jews, italians, irish, germans, dutch, chinese, japanese, most of goddamn asia).

Honestly, with as much travelling as I've done, it really does seem to be african-americans (not black people in general), south americans/mexicans, turkey-to-arabians, who have the most fucking difficulty accepting the fact that they need to change just A LITTLE BIT to fit the mold of the society they live in.

If they don't and they aren't successful, who the fuck cares.

>>6788199

You're like the math teacher who takes off points for forgetting to write "+c" when taking integrals when the c term is =0.

Or those faggots who require you to not simply indicate the presence of something, but ALSO indicate it's absence in a mutually exclusive scenario.

Fuck all people like you.

>>6788234

>really the method is retarded though because...

Well, yeah. You're using an algorithm for what it wasn't designed for.

>...probably one where computation isn't as important as conceptualizing things...

Totally agree. I've had so many people over my tutoring/academic career say something like:

>but anon my brain doesn't work that way! If you give me formulas I can plug it in and I understand it!
>"then you don't really know enough to be using those formulas in the first place...it's not a fucking magic box."

>>6788246

decimeters are the standard unit used in measuring the cell-size for specific rotation of light by optically active compounds in chemistry.

It's kinda fucked because it's an old convention (they did this shit before Avogadro even helped us out with the whole moles thing), but no one is changing it.

>>6789591
>physics teacher has concise and explicit formula sheets
>kids still managing to get straight F on every test
I don't even

>>6789598

I never felt bad about plugging formulas into my calculator, especially for shit like E&M in early college physics.

I sat there, derived the equations for common field shapes, then plugged them in. I understood how one derived them, but I wasn't willing to do that shit on a timed test.

A bunch of my friends at the time copied my shit. I wrecked them on the exams because they couldn't deal with the slightest variation from the "ideal" that I had plugged into my calculator.

Fucking idiots.

>>6788095
It's extremely realistic for majority-black neighbourhoods like Detroit, New Orleans, Washington DC, or Baltimore.

>>6789606
I actually wtf'd on a test we had. One of the questions (there are only 5) went like:

A beam of light 2cm in diameter and 1m long has an power of 15000 watts. What is the energy density?

He wanted something like converting to a frequency, using some other formulas, some convoluted bs. On his own homework assignment he did it the easy way: convert the length to time because c is a constant, multiply the time one meter takes at light speed by the power, and then just divide that by the volume of the cylinder using the radius and length.

I got full credit, but what was probably supposed to be like half a sheet of work was a few lines of algebra, and he wrote he "wasn't intending me to do that" (despite the same problem on the extra practice) but it works.

>>6788101
>Engineers don't understand shit
>be Engineer and do tutoring in the math lab
>we don't have a science lab
>I cover the math up to DifEq and some Discrete/whateves, Science up to Physics 3, Chemistry up to 102 (I will learn organic I swear), and Stats I
>literally the only thing I have not tutored there is accounting
>only the one Physics Master (out of ~12 tutors) covers the same or more stuff, and he's not as good at interfacing with people or explaining things
plebs

>>6789616
For a non-Physics major, could you explain how the length is even relevant?

> 15000/pi W/cm^2 -> 5e-7 J/cm^3 (with rounded value of c)???

>>6789637
whoops, forgot to divide pi.

> ~1.6e-7 J/cm^3

>>6789616

Nice.

I had a chem teacher like that who was super into dimensional analysis. This fucker would take the most roundabout ways to solve problems.

His answer sheets to something like "find the amount product produced (in g) from this reaction given a mixture of X g compoundA and Y g compoundB" would be EPICs. Literally pages on pages on pages.

He'd take points off if you fucked up and didn't do all his dimensional analysis shit, but if you got the correct answer in 2 lines he'd give you full credit and just bitch about it later.

That was the class where every problem was a gamble between time remaining and how many problems you were so confident you got correct that you could neglect to show shit-tons of work for.

>>6789637
You use the length to calculate volume of the cylinder. If you were really compacting the equation:

( 1m / (3*10^8 m/s)) * (15000) / (pi (2cm / ( 2 * 100 cm/m)^2 * 1m) = time * power / cylinder volume.

>>6788099
> engineers are neither interested in deep and complex background math, nor does their field require it. engineers use math as a tool to get their job done, nothing less and nothing more. no reason to waste time on hard and long proofs when all you're ever gonna do is apply a set of formulae and computation routines.
speak for yourself faggot.
>>6788118
> mass is measured in grams
cgs was cycled out a long while ago.
kg is where it's at.

also it's not like it's hard to convert and we use metric prefixes to shorten notation (forces in bridges are in kips, failure strength in ksi, elasticity in Msi.)

>>6789642
Wouldn't the energy density inside the beam be the same regardless of the length?

>>6789642
>>6789640
After rechecking his work page, it may have been he was asking for volt/m, which is basically the same thing except you add another conversion between E and B.

>>6789647
Yes, but since it affects your formula (though could be algebrad out) it is easier to just GO GO GO CALCULATE

E. A 15.0 mW helium - neon laser (λ = 632.8 nm) emits a beam of circular cross-section with a diameter of 2.00 mm.
(a) Find the maximum electric field in the beam.
(b) What total energy is contained in a 1.00 m length of the beam?

Something like that.

>>6787513
>Well this topic devolved quickly.

Of course it did. Common Core critics are all dumb as shit after all.

>>6789582
Well, you ARE supposed to add +c, cuz if you don't you're a dumbass

>>6789677

>forgetting was the wrong word
>second part still applies

>>6787492
Is that a spell?

>>6788095
>How realistic is this?

Not very. It's Stormfront copypasta.

>>6788099
>the days of self-segregation in 'chinatown'-like quarters are long gone.

Holy shit how sheltered are you?

>>6788051

In many cases AAVE is more logical (in terms of internal consistency) than American General English. Particularly when it comes to pluralization and tense.

>>6788003

I don't know of many black families that didn't teach their kids job interview english, even those who openly speak AAVE.

>>6789729
>>6789732
>>6789671
>>6789744
> In many cases toddler proto-english is more logical (in terms of internal consistency) than American General English. Particularly when it comes to pluralization and tense.
> Mommy, I goed to bathroom.
> My foots itch.

For fuck's sake, the condescending math major elitist/political correctness task force is showing up in force.

>Speaking proper English correlates to smartness

Some of you need to stop sipping on dat stupid juice

>>6789771
dont associate math majors with niggers, white nigger

>>6789792
im pretty sure it does bro
correlation between sat language scores and IQ for example is high as fuck

>>6789808
Man, I think that IQ is largely accurate measure of cognitive ability AND that it's primarily hereditary, but even I consider this bait.

This is now officially a /pol/ thread in every regard.

>>6789814
which part is bait?

if I wanted to bait I'd tell you whiteness correlates with IQ, which is true lol

>>6787467
>be a minority fresh off the airplane
>blow my american peers out of the fucking water in science courses
>except
>i suck at arithmetic
>i flip numbers around, i don't know my multiplication tables, the works
>my entire school career am made to feel like shit over it and am dissuaded from pursuing a science degree
>psych eval unrelated to schooling lands me with a math disability, specifically dyscalculia
>now in college
>stem degree
>4.0, zero problems in math thanks to TUTORING and FUNDING

Minorities are no dumber or smarter than white people. It's a funding/quality of education/accessibility issue.

Had someone picked up on my dyscalculia earlier, I wouldn't have wasted years in a degree I didn't even care for.

>>6789819
>I'm great in science, really!
>I can't do basic arithmetic
>Now I can do math

touching story, nigger. nothing to do with you being a nigger though. you just stamped the minority card in there to get sympathy because that's what niggers do

nigger

>>6789823
Actually, minorities are less likely to be diagnosed with learning disabilities like dyscalculia and dyslexia due to a variety of factors.

>minority fresh off the airplane
I'm Hispanic. But you keep on keeping on.

>>6789823
They were quoting someone who mentioned minorities are stupid. I know this is /sci/, but maybe we should go to /lit/ for some reading comprehension.

>>6787431
>what exactly are they trying to teach children with this kind of ass-backwards thinking?
That you can get away with anything as long as you're in a position of authority.

>>6789831
>Reply to someone saying minorities are stupid with a story of how a nignog was bad in math and now isn't
>hurr get reading comprehension he totally has a point

piss off nigger

>>6789838
>>>/pol/

>>6789839
>Oh no he's calling me out on my shit
>I'll tell him to go somewhere else

>Ha i'm such a genius

>>6789814
>This is now officially a /pol/ thread in every regard.

>>6789839

Please, this board is almost exactly like /pol/ except it's the math-er race constantly circle-jerking about the inferiority of engi-niggers.

>>6789844
I would still them to return to their containment board.

>>6789846
>he hurt my feelings i'll call him dumb and say he needs containment because he's inferior to me :(

>>6789850
You are so butthurt. Are all white people this fucking whiny?

>>6789851
>You're white! I'll assume you're white. And I'll be racist to you! That'll show you to stop being racist!
>I'll call you butthurt after you called me butthurt and call you whiny after I whined to the first person who showed up to this thread after you hurt my feelings

>>6789851
I'll have you know I'm trans-Indian.

>>6789771

What a severe lack of apprehension when it comes to linguistics.

Which is ironic because I'm pretty sure that's what you're accusing black people of.

>>6789823

Holy shit please fuck off back to /pol/

>>6789859
>complains about people being condescending
>say he has a "severe lack of apprehension"

lol, you know ebonics is social correctness and nothing else

>>6789857
As in a transexual with Native heritage, or are you a white person whose great great great grandma was a Cherokee princess?

>>6789838
>>6789841
>>6789850
>>6789855

>i'll just greentext and say nigger in lieu of an actual arguments
What remarkable rhetoric skills you have, Anon.
I know this is 4chan, but this is just disappointing.

>>6789862
>P-Please leave me alone! Go away! Stop hurting me!

why dont you fuck off to wherever you came from, 4chan is gonna stay what it is whether you like it or not, baby sjw shithead

>>6789818

IQ has a negative correlation with racism.

Intelligent people are better with causality.

>>6788192
Somebody with elephantitis.

>>6789864
>>complains about people being condescending

Where did I do that, retard?

>you know ebonics is social correctness and nothing else

Don't get mad at me for your lack of education/

>>6789868
>why dont you fuck off to wherever you came from

Been here for a while

>4chan is gonna stay what it is whether you like it or not

Back to your containment board.

>>6789869
I never talked about causality, I just said something true and you're the one accusing me of shit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#United_States_test_scores

I'm not racist. You, however, are what creates racism by promoting racial difference instead of trying to bring everyone up to the same standards.

>>6789871
Read it again, slowly. He complained about condescending people and your post was nothing but condescending shit.

Don't get mad at me for your lack of education and you replacing it with social correctness.

>>6789864

> Official English Dialect Tier List
> ---------------------------------------------
> God Tier: The Queen's English
> Silver Medal Tier: American Standard, Canadian
> OK Tier: Australian, Caribbean
> Incomprehensible Gibberish Tier: Scottish, New Zealand, South African, Indian
> Into the Trash It Goes Tier: Redneck, Ebonics, Chinglish, Spanglish, etc.

>>6789874
>I never talked about causality

I never said you did, but causality is where racism fails. Lesser-intelligent people are notorious for mistaking correlation with causality, which is why racist attitudes are so much more prevalent in thick people.

>I just said something true

So did I.

>you're the one accusing me of shit.

When did I do that? A bit touchy, are we?

>You, however, are what creates racism by promoting racial difference instead of trying to bring everyone up to the same standards.

No point in holding people to the same standards if people don't have the same circumstances. That's why colleges like minorities and poor people and disenfranchised groups in general. If someone with shit opportunity matches the performance of someone with tons of opportunity, the former is more impressive.

>>6789880
nice strawman buddy

america is really ridiculous with their extreme social correctness to the point of pulling off ridiculous shit like this

>>6789877
>your post was nothing but condescending shit.

Only because you're a whiny little bitch who takes it so personally.

You could just learn how to take being fucking wrong like a normal adult with self respect. The reason people are condescending to you is because you're acting like a child and putting forth shit arguments based on prejudice rather than reason.

Go back to /pol/

>>6789869
>IQ has a negative correlation with racism.
Recent studies strongly suggest that more intelligent/educated individuals are just better at suppressing outward expressions of their racism.

Pretty much everybody's racist, but it's a giant game to pretend otherwise.

>>6789866
>confusing curry niggers with native americans
I am deeply offended, sir!

>>6789874
However, poverty often acts as a confounding factor and differences that are assumed to arise from racial/cultural factors may be socioeconomically driven. Many children who are poor, regardless of race, come from homes that lack stability, continuity of care, adequate nutrition, and medical care creating a level of environmental stress that can affect the young child’s development. As a result, these children enter school with decreased word knowledge that can affect their language skills, influence their experience with books, and create different perceptions and expectations in the classroom context.

Studies show that when students have parental assistance with homework, they perform better in school. This is a problem for many minority students due to the large number of single-parent households (67% of African-American children are in a single-parent household) and the increase in non-English speaking parents. Students from single-parent homes often find it difficult to find time to receive help from their parent. Similarly, some Hispanic students have difficulty getting help with their homework because there is not an English speaker at home to offer assistance.

>>6789881
>That's why colleges like minorities and poor people and disenfranchised groups in general. If someone with shit opportunity matches the performance of someone with tons of opportunity, the former is more impressive.

Finally, someone said it.

>>6789868

I love when people from /pol/ come over here, "state" "facts", get called out for being from /pol/, and then just get so fucking mad that they can be detected a mile away off their containment board.

>>6789881
You're gonna keep subtly calling me racist and dumb and pretending you aren't? You're awful.

So keep splitting people up by color, reinforce ideas of racism and make sure progress isn't actually made to bring people together, but to create a contingency measure so the way things are can continue to be forever? Affirmative action is a retarded pretend solution to a complex issue that makes things worse.

>>6789890
>Finally, someone said it.

The only reason people don't say it is because it's obvious.

If I were an employer, and I have two identical resumes in front of me, I would easily choose the one who had to work harder for it.

>>6789897
No, seriously, this is a concept tons of my college peers struggle with. They complain about all these 'foreign students' snatching up scholarships in our STEM programs as if a Bachelors in Science was their god-given right simply because they were born.

I am constantly impressed by the stories some of these international students have. And they tend to have to jump through way more hurdles to get here than your average American.

>>6789885
Now you're going to answer me even when I'm no longer hurting your butt? He wasn't condescending to me, he was to that other dude. Stop following me crying around.

>>6789893
how are you posting this fast

>>6789901
>Stop following me crying around.

>Whines like a baby that people called him out for /pol/ bullshit
>Accuses others of crying

lol

Sorry you got embarrassed. I legitimately don't think this is the board for you. An echo chamber like /pol/ seems more suitable. Now run along.

>>6789905
>Waaaahhh

ever since i called you butthurt all your posts yell that i'm the one who's butthurt

it's funny that you keep saying im from /pol/

you're such a baby

>>6789900

I see the same against urban students who came from completely shit public schools and were smart/hard-working enough to begin to break out of the cycle, to have a bunch of suburban neckbeards talk shit behind their backs about AA and such.

>>6789908
You give me hope for higher education. Thank you so much. I mean it.

>>6789907

When was I butthurt? You're the one who were wrong. You resorted to butthurt as pure damage control.

Sorry you don't understand linguistics or race or much of the topics in this thread. Calling people butthurt won't change that. Getting off of pol, not letting emotion cloud your intellect, and actually putting work into learning will bring you much further than saying something retarded and then throwing a fit when you are rekt.

>it's funny that you keep saying im from /pol/

If you weren't from /pol/ you wouldn't have flown off the handle at the suggestion with such a cheap comeback that disclosed to everyone that, yes, you are indeed from /pol/.

>>6789908
that picture is dumb, other things being wrong doesn't excuse "lesser wrongs" which is the thing the picture is using to reinforce their point, regardless of whether it's right or wrong

>>6789913
>butthurt /pol/ you were wrong butthurt /pol/ you were wrong butthurt /pol/ you were wrong

what the fuck was i wrong about? why are you acting like you proved me wrong on something? i dont remember you saying anything other than >>/pol/ ever since the start

>>6789914
The point of the picture is that scholarships for minorities are piss in the wind in comparison to the amount of awards given to all kinds of students before them.

I worked for an in-college phonathon that would call alumni and ask them to donate money to the college. We raised over $400,000 one year.

You know where the majority of that money went to?

Infrastructure, administrative, and scholarships for alumni.

A piss-poor 5% or so percent went to the 'multicultural' program.

>>6789919
Again, what's the point of this argument? What does it bring in favor of affirmative action? All it says is "affirmative action isn't as bad as other stuff" which is ridiculous. you should be arguing about the good points of AA, not saying other things are worse while AA isn't too bad

>>6789914

The things in the picture aren't really wrong. Big donations and shit are more or less necessary evils of education.

What's retarded is blaming minorities when you don't get into a school instead of the countless more likely scenarios. And that's the point of the comic. Anecdotally, all the people I see saying that, have never seemed like they would be such impressive students.

Also AA isn't really wrong. It's essentially just considering the backgrounds of people rather that just looking at academics, which isn't the whole picture.

>>6789913
/pol/ack reporting here, can reasonably contend that other anon isn't one as well.
we tend to be a lot thicker-skinned due to the relentless amount of shit-flinging, trolling, and counter-trolling that goes on there, and don't give a fuck if people say >>>/pol/.

that said, political correctness is cancer, certain sub-cultures are quantifiably inferior in significant regards, and every board on 4chan is a circle-jerk in its own special way.

> also, not giving too much a fuck about CC because trusting your kids' STEM education to public school teachers is suicide

>>6789923
What i'm saying is that's not the way to argue in favor of AA at all. Don't say it isn't as bad as other stuff. That's dumb.

The last line is what AA should be, looking at backgrounds. It became a "mark this box if you got enough melanin" which is really dumb.

>>6789917
>what the fuck was i wrong about?

AAVE being a consistent dialect.

>>6789921
Actually, I think AA is imperfect, as the majority who benefits from it are white women, which tend to marry white men, which means the wealth goes right back to whites.

I think better education programs for minority-heavy school districts (specially in STEM fields) and more financial aid in the form of scholarships, would be far more beneficial to minority students than AA. It's a band-aid solution, both from personal experience and through research.

>>6789926
what the fuck

>>6789924
>certain sub-cultures are quantifiably inferior in significant regards

Everything I've seen from /pol/ types when it comes to shit like this has to do with a completely arbitrary criteria that more or less has to do with IQ tests plus "has the same characteristics as me"

>>6789926
dont tell me all along you throught you were talking to someone else? i just came and told the dude answering the "all minorities are retarded" with a story about how someone was bad and math and then wasn't was retarded

you're a complete autist

>>6789934
This just in: you can be bad at one kind of math, but excel in another. Just because you're bad at geometry (but excellent at Calculus) doesn't mean you're retarded.

>>6789927

I don't think you are looking at AA in the context of all scholarships.

There are scholarships for pretty much every disadvantage, whether it's being poor, a minority, a woman (lady scholarships have indeed gone over the edge a bit but only for white women), a foreign student, etc. Complaining about AA only considering race/gender I think isn't seeing the forest for the trees.

I think the REAL solution though is attacking what seems like the biggest problem to me: funding public schools with property values. America is one of the few developed countries that funds schools this way.

>>6789935
what the fuck are you taling about now? are you trying to save face after you realized im not the guy you thought i was and you still want to pick a fight with me anyway?

i never said he was retarded you dipshit. all i'm saying is it has nothing to do with anything. it's a nonsense story. the point he was trying to make was that minorities aren't usually diagnosed of dyscalculia for whatever reason and he only mentioned it afterwards in passing.

you're the most autistic human being i've seen

>>6789934
>and then wasn't was retarded

>>6789932
>Everything I've seen from /pol/ types when it comes to shit like this has to do with

How about:
>>6789890
>67% of African-American children are in a single-parent household

African-American culture has been in free-fall since the 60s due largely to the continuous decline of the stable black family.
Essentially every study ever has shown that for kids' academic, etc., success:
> married biological parents >>>> single dad > single mom >> mom living with another dude

Teachers, counselors, social workers, and scholarships can never come close to fixing a child broken by shitty parenting.

>>6789941
jesus christ.

[told the dude] answering the "all minorities are retarded" with a story about how someone was bad and math and then wasn't was retarded

[told him] answering [the prompt] with [a story] was retarded

>>6789938
You do have a good point here. I am at a college that plays real estate with the area around it (to the point that the housing surrounding it is some of the most expensive in the city).

I do think the department of education is doing its youth (its talent) a disservice with its skyrocketing tuition prices and the ridiculous bureaucratic mess that is applying for federal aid.

We should slash the bloated defense spending and pump that money into education, where it'd be better used.

>>6789942
The belief that the nuclear family is the end-all, be-all marker for success is a bunch of crap, to be honest.

>>6789945
The idea that single mothers aren't a drain on society and don't provide inferior households for their children is a laughable, though widely professed, fiction

>>6789940
>are you trying to save face after you realized im not the guy you thought i was and you still want to pick a fight with me anyway?

That's really funny because you are mistaking two people for one.

You seem really out of your element.

>>6789947
There are plenty of single mothers who do just fine. The problem with single mothers has a lot to do with access to contraception, social stigma, et al.

But we're veering off topic here.

>>6789948
So the dude who was being a confused autist left and you're the master trolle who hopped along and you're proud of it?

wow

>>6789942

But you're not controlling for circumstances and opportunity and racism. /pol/ champions severely selective statistics that are impartial and not very useful on their own outside of confirming prejudices.

>>6789945
It ain't a panacea, but that's a straw-man argument anyway.

>>6789949
>the problem with single mothers has a lot to do with access to contraception, social stigma, et al.
nice weasel words and general bullshit

Try reading up some:
> Father Absence and Youth Incarceration - Harper (UCSF) and McLanahan (Princeton), 2004
> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1532-7795.2004.00079.x/abstract

>>6789954
How is it weasel words? A lot of single mothers would've aborted their children if they had access to abortifacents, if it wasn't such a social stigma due to culture/religion, etc.

>>6789951

Actually I'm the one you're calling an autist. That post I just responded to was referring to someone else.

You're retarded either way.

>>6789957
autist

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>>6787778
Fuckin' mathematicians! Always making things harder than they should be.

8+5=____
2+3=____
8+2=____
10+3=____

There you go. You ask the question and you teach them the answer.

>>6789953
> But you're not controlling for circumstances and opportunity and racism.
How does a single statistic require an experimental control?
I'm just claiming it's a strong indicator of piss-poor cultural health.
Also, how is being a single mother anybody's fault other than the individual in a world of free condoms and universally legalized abortion?

> /pol/ champions severely selective statistics that are impartial and not very useful on their own outside of confirming prejudices.
For someone who claims to eschew /pol/ for reasons of being an echo chamber, you certainly seem free in painting it with a large confident brush.

>>6789962
The idea of the common core in teaching the intuitive part of math is pretty great! The implementation seems to have some small issues that are greatly exaggerated.

>>6789671

It's logical, and they don't just pop up those questions from nowhere, they correspond to the intuitive understanding they try to teach to children.

If you only want to learn how to sum, use a calculator. You don't need a person for that.

>>6789963
Dude, read some books. People are not determined shit by their births. Look at Napoleon, Adolf, Saladin, Tesla, fuckin' Professor Stephen Hawkings! All incredibly gifted individuals, all very different upbrings. All had single mothers.

>>6789970
>a point determines the distribution is wrong

???

>>6789972
That's exactly right. If you mix certain chemicals in the wrong amount, you are asking for trouble. Bruce Banner kind of trouble.

>>6789963
>How does a single statistic require an experimental control?

It doesn't - however drawing a conclusion from it, which /pol/ loves to with all sorts of stats like that, does.

>I'm just claiming it's a strong indicator of piss-poor cultural health.

I agree, but pin-pointing a sub-culture outside of its context in the greater culture isn't very meaningful for drawing conclusions. It's far better to look at social mobility.

>how is being a single mother anybody's fault other than the individual in a world of free condoms and universally legalized abortion?

You need to get out into the world. Some states make it very hard to have an abortion, and even when widely available they aren't cheap and having it done is a stigma; many places in America have piss-poor sex education, and condoms are only free at college campuses and PP, not really places you stop at daily.

>For someone who claims to eschew /pol/ for reasons of being an echo chamber, you certainly seem free in painting it with a large confident brush.

Well considering you just offered a Q.E.D. for my claim, I don't think you are in a position to complain about that.

>>6789970
Yes, yes, it's easy being white.

>>6789981

>>6789955
> How is it weasel words?
"has a lot to do with ..." is so vague a qualifier your argument dies right there

> A lot of single mothers would've aborted their children if they had access to abortifacents, if it wasn't such a social stigma due to culture/religion, etc.
Abortion and birth control are MUCH more widely and cheaply available than 40+ years ago and less stigmatized, society is moderately less religious, and single motherhood rates in all races have increased markedly.
It's intellectually dishonest to focus the debate in this direction in light of the clear trends.

Better suspects IMO would be the modern lack of stigmatization of single motherhood, the change in rates of youth/young adult sexual activity and promiscuity, and the comparative financial supporting capacity of biological fathers vs. alternatives in state welfare, extended family, etc.

>>6789981
>Saladin
>White

>>6789990
I don't consider him a person.

>>6789991
>my face when

>>6789989
Promiscuity has been around since the Ancient Greeks, men make more than women, because they work harder jobs with longer hours, give states and local governments more rights, social norms are determined by economic stability;i.e. Rome, England, America, Somalia, South Africa, in rebuttal to your first statement.

>>6789979
>however drawing a conclusion from it, which /pol/ loves to with all sorts of stats like that, does.
Are you under the incorrect impression that I'm here trying to defend /pol/'s consensus views (and your perception of their methods) rather than just my own?

> I agree, but pin-pointing a sub-culture outside of its context in the greater culture isn't very meaningful for drawing conclusions. It's far better to look at social mobility.
In what way has social mobility, etc., worsened since the end of Jim Crow that would provide the context to explain an increasingly degrading social health?

> You need to get out into the world.
Nice attempt at aspersion.
I grew up in a very poor rural town and live now in a very large city (downtown, not suburbs)
I'm comfortable in my belief I've experienced a wide enough variety of communities to have my own opinions, thanks.

> Some states make it very hard to have an abortion, and even when widely available they aren't cheap and having it done is a stigma; many places in America have piss-poor sex education, and condoms are only free at college campuses and PP, not really places you stop at daily
It would still be nice if you could propose an explanation of why the single motherhood rates are increasing that acknowledges that all the factors you list have moved in directions that should have created reductions.

>>6790003
1.You need to show proof of your view point. If you can't show it's right time after time, you can't say it's correct.
Example: Gravity exists. If I drop something, it will always fall.
Now mind you, there are multiple ways to disprove this, but the fact still remains you still have to show your work.
2.The increasing costs of university compared to the relative ease of credit. (Both, of which, used to be extremely low and hard to obtain.) Resulting in an inflated and artificial market of superfluous items of little to no value due to the increase production of said same. The increasing acceptance of violence,nudity,"swearing" in mass media/entertainment[music,games,movies,television shows] Also pointed out earlier, people's lack of education on proper procreation prevention. <---See what I did there?
3.I can't defend what that man said.
4.They did. There's not as many pregnant women dropping out of college. Many factors: people are stuck in the old ways, they truly care about children and don't want them terminated, single women tend not to have jobs until sometime after their births, thus relying on welfare, though most due have both a job and are on welfare, meaning they don't have the money for the abortion, and their fear would prevent them from asking for help from friends/relatives. Some people feel Sex Education should come from adults, not the schools. That's usually why the same schools have higher rates of teen pregnancy, because they were simply taught only one way.

>>6790015
>1.You need to show proof of your view point.
Bullshit. I said "X < Y, period.", he said "you need to contextualize because these other bad people draw wrong conclusions".

>2.The increasing costs of university compared to the relative ease of credit. Resulting in an inflated and artificial market of superfluous items of little to no value due to the increase production of said same.
A greater portion of single black/latino women (up to ~3/4 for blacks) are having kids than ever attended college, so this part of your suggestion doesn't follow.
> The increasing acceptance of violence,nudity,"swearing" in mass media.
(seems a stretch but OK)
> Also pointed out earlier, people's lack of education on proper procreation prevention.
People have a greater lack of sexual education now than when they had none at all? calling flat bullshit here

>4.They did. There's not as many pregnant women dropping out of college.
Black single motherhood has roughly tripled (~25%->~75%) since the 60s, and nowhere remotely close to half of black mothers are part-time college students.
> Many factors: people are stuck in the old ways, they truly care about children and don't want them terminated,
That's fine, but they're putting their personal goals above the well-being of the rest of society in doing so.
> single women tend not to have jobs until sometime after their births, thus relying on welfare, though most due have both a job and are on welfare, meaning they don't have the money for the abortion, and their fear would prevent them from asking for help from friends/relatives.
> usually why the same schools have higher rates of teen pregnancy, because they were simply taught only one way.
If you think it's not understanding bc mechanics instead of changing familial/social pressures, etc., give sauce please or concede that's it's just postulation.

TLDR; -many- more single women with more sex-ed/bc/abortion are having kids, need better explanations

>>6790037
1.Fair enough
2.All those answers were in reference to the question you posed
>In what way has social mobility, etc., worsened since the end of Jim Crow that would provide the context to explain an increasingly degrading social health?
A.You didn't disprove anything that I said there.
a.You're not taking into account the whole sum of women, you're excluding certain races(asian,native americans, indians).
b. You're dodging my second point
C. It's more or less the same since that time period.

4.A. Again, you're ignoring the larger argument, " less women are getting pregnant in college, thus lowering the drop out rate.
B. People are human beings, we are creatures of emotion, because we are animals. We are not 100% logical all of the time.
C. In the context that they were never taught the alternatives about birth control pills, condoms, abortions. Look at the Bible Belt. Highest rate of teen pregnancy. Why? Because they were taught abortions and birth control is wrong, welfare is for quitters, and the man needs to pay for everything. Is it any wonder single teen mothers down there were so ill-prepared? I'm sorry if you misunderstood about . I do not explain myself well.

>>6789568
They just use mass for everything and sometimes newtons.

>>6789578
No, they are expecting the weight in units of mass.
>How much would you weigh on the moon?
>40 kg

>>6789621
That's all babby math, OP. Worse than that though, Engineer versions of it cut all sorts of corners. A notorious one is that they use differentials like (dy/dx) as a fraction, so they multiply and divide parts of it from different sides of equations.

>>6790594
>>6790061
Ah, /sci/, the place where engineers get ripped for being sloppy with their PDEs, and the Shaniquas of the world who can't track their EBT balances without their Obama phone calculators are vigorously defended.

Never change.

>>6790657
>Go to /sci/
>Try to convince science/math people that common core is hard and unintuitive
>Get called a retard
>Try to claim that common core is dumbing down math for the dumb people.

You need to check your inferences.