/sci/ - Science & Math

Try to start and maintain a fire under water.
Try to build a tool with a fin.
Try to store writings and pictures in ocean.

Humans would be fucked if we were stuck with dolphin anatomy.

>>6715430

Sure, I get the environment argument but are there any differences in brains?

>>6715442
no they're exactly the same.

Don't dolphins lack the ability to sleep and instead just turn off parts of their brain? Could that have anything to do with it?

>>6715406
I think it might be that size isn't everything when it comes to brains. That could be shit, but that's what I'd guess.

Brain size doesn't matter fajet

>>6715442

It's still up for debate, some say yes others say no.

For
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1868071/

Against
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16573845
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23896571

>>6715483
>>6715406
It's not brain size, but number of neurons/synapses that determines intelligence. Humans have almost 4 times as many as dolphins.

>>6715462
Except the dolphin brain is superiour. They just shut off one hemisphere and let it rest while the other goes on working, they then repeat the process. Do you know how much we could accomplish if we never had to sleep? Think of how much holographic, interactive porn I could be look at right now

>>6715406
There's a ton of different not physical changes that humans went through that dolphins didn't. Modern humans actually have smaller brains than Homo Sapiens 30-40kya and smaller brains than neandertals too.

For example both our lobes became specialized for different things, one side is good at deductive small detail and local processing (IE manipulating puzzles and tools and etc.), the other is very good at inductive, global processing (IE using memory and contexts and etc)

Both work hand in hand to give superpowers. Primates show less specialization of these parts.

Not to forget dolphin brain size may have increased in shit that's not "cognitive", for example detecting fine tune sonar and lightwaves and shit. Its not evolving logic and pattern-recognition, but it is fine-tuning their senses.

>>6715483
>>6715489
Yeah its neural folding too. Those lines you see are just your neurons folded 1 million times to produce hardest brain known to nature.

>>6715406
Why didn't ancient people develop some kind of writing system? Why didn't anyone think to record what was happening? Didn't anyone think,"Hmmm, perhaps I should record the legend of my people by grabbing a tablet and paint on it. I will pass down vast stories of people and pass them onto the next generation, Hey you know that berry is really." I didn't except the writing system we have now to come first but rather Hieroglyphs."

>>6715406
Anyone find it a bit strange? Your brain is looking at brains dicussing about brains using the brain to formulate sentences and conclusion about the brain

>>6715482
Dolphins sleep. They can go up to two weeks by shutting down one hemisphere as if it were asleep, and have the other one active; sleeping with one eye open as it were.

>>6715462
>no they're exactly the same.
No, they can't be the same.

>>6715406
So when will we make voice recognition software that listens to dolphins and lets them take control of a computer? Could they utilize something like Eyewriter? If so, I want to get them bank accounts and see what dolphins do with money.

>>6715597

They buy fish and pimp out their rape cave.

>>6715521
>Anyone find it a bit strange? Your brain is looking at brains dicussing about brains using the brain to formulate sentences and conclusion about the brain

Magic, right?

>>6715490
>They just shut off one hemisphere and let it rest while the other goes on working, they then repeat the process.

And their muscles and skeleton never needs an 8 hour hibernation?

I suppose their left-right brain isn't specialized like humans either and each mirrors the other in function. Wow. Just wow.

How evolved is a dolphin frontal lobe?

>>6715406
We should make dolphin phone booths in various places in the ocean. Then have the NSA listen to find dolphin terrorists.

>>6715720
4

What if we made artificial limbs for dolphins and trained them to use them.

>>6715727
Rape rates would skyrocket.

Well, humans have a brain-to-body mass ratio of 1:40, and dolphins (I calculated for short-beaked common dolphin) about 1:29, so... I know it isn't really accurate, but it's a difference to consider.

Calculation: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28short-beaked+common+dolphin+brain+mass%29%2F200+kg, http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/species/mammals/cetaceans/commondolphin_shortbeaked.htm

>>6715776
And by accurate, I mean the brain-to-body mass as a method for finding out the intelligence of species.

>>6715727
You talking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxIgdOlT2cY

?

You can fuck female dolphins. They can control their vaginal muscles to massage the penis and squeeze like a tuggie, but like a blowjob.

Read David Brin's Uplift books

>>6715778
That gives us small birds and mammals as very intelligent. So it must be synaptic density And brain body mass.

>>6715724
kek

>>6715804
I heard some guy lost his dick that way.

http://www.ted.com/talks/suzana_herculano_houzel_what_is_so_special_about_the_human_brain

I think this shit makes sense

Killer whales have a much more interesting brain than dolphins. It is structured more similarly to human brains and it is larger and nearly the same neuron density with a higher glial cell density. Dolphins are almost certainly not as intelligent as humans, but killer whales are close enough for a debate.

>>6715776
Brain to body mass ratio doesnt mean shit. If it did midgets would be the smartest people on earth. Brain mass and structure are what matter when looking at intellect

>>6715512
>For example both our lobes became specialized for different things, one side is good at deductive small detail and local processing (IE manipulating puzzles and tools and etc.), the other is very good at inductive, global processing (IE using memory and contexts and etc)
Isn't that reconfigurable? For example, a man whose brain are damaged at certain parts, can use their remaining working parts of their brain to do what the lost parts do. Is it really true?

>>6715917
I watched that talk a while ago… doesn't say much at all. Number of neurons, food, calories etc. Doesn't explain WHAT EXACTLY is different about human brain.

It's like saying "adding more neurons somehow makes it more intelligent". That's bullshit.

>>6715946
What is ravens

>>6715959
More neurons means more pathways for retrieval of information. It makes total sense for more neurons to = more intelligence.

>>6715961
Sure, ravens are smart, but they are dumber than any human.

>>6715969
>More neurons means more pathways for retrieval of information. It makes total sense for more neurons to = more intelligence.

How come then that there's more intelligent BIRDS than there's intelligent MAMMALS?

Explain that one with your silly theory please.

We have developed in an environment that necessitates the development of hand tools and complex language in order to manage our social networks.

These facts lead to the development of systems of symbolic thought, pattern recognition, and the practical application of tools, time, amd effort towards solutions. In their natural environment there is no demand for dolphins to engage in these behaviors. Humans, on the other hand, have practiced these out on necessity for thousands of generations.

>>6715430
What about octopuses then.

They can work out how to use coconuts as tools.

>>6716006
>What about octopuses then.

had to post this amazing vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8cf7tPoN5o

>>6716013
thats not intelligence, they're just super flexible

>>6716006
Their tentacle seem to lack force and precision.
Sames goes for the elephant's trunk
Hands > Everything else

A quick google scholar search for "cetacean" and "brodmann area 22" came up with jack shit. Brodmann's 22 is the cytoarchitectural equivalent of Wernicke's area, the area of the human brain most closely associated with verbal comprehension.

In English, dolphins lack the capacity for language, a rather series impediment on the road to civilization.

>>6715406
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetacean_intelligence

We have thumbs

>>6715597

I heard about a study they did where they actually did teach dolphins to use a computer. I believe the bumped the screen with their nose or something.

I dunno, google it - it's out there.

>>6715954
Yeah basically. You really just need the right neurons and don't really need "parts of the brain".

as you know neurons are made from stem cells so yeah, much like using stem cells to treat diseases your body already could do that.

>>6716052
What cytoarchitectural features distinguish 22 specifically?

>>6716006
Octupi. It's Octupi.

>>6715946

Neanderthals had much bigger brains than cro-magnons and cro-magnons had much bigger brains than modern humans, but they still had a much less developed material and social culture.

>>6715406
Because the dolphin brain looks like a butt.

>>6716120
>tfw no cute butt brain

>>6716013
Wait a minute, how did they get the crabs into that bottle with the small opening at the top?

If dolphins had hands, who knows what they'd be capable of.

>>6716218
masturbation

Ours is better.

Fuck dolphins. I could beat a dolphin up with my bare fucking hands.

And THAT'S evolution.

>>6715490
>Except the dolphin brain is superiour.
"Brain Betterness" isn't linear you mong

>>6716281
This. Monkeys are also fucking stupid.

fuck monkeys. I could beat a monkey up with my bare fucking hands.

>>6716218
I so wanna see what would happen if you gave a bunch of baby dolphins bionic arms and legs and trained them to be as intelligent as possible

>>6715946
That's what I said. He asked for differences, I gave him differences.

>>6716281
>And THAT'S evolution.

Yeah sure go back to Liberia you disgusting nigger.

Dolphins are honorary Aryans.

>tfw you will never be John C Lilly and drop acid with dolphins

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Lilly#Exploration_of_human_consciousness

>>>6716087
>Yeah basically. You really just need the right neurons and don't really need "parts of the brain".

That's beyond stupid. So if I blended 10 brains, I'd have a super-brain, right?

In a few thousand years, will humans be something else and monkeys resemble what humans are like now?

>>6716281
>>6716344
You couldn't, actually. Beat up a dolphin and you're mostly sandpapering your hands. Try to hit a monkey and they'll tear your limbs off and shit in the wound.

>>6716473

>>6716696
Yes, not all of them of course but due to genetic engineering, in a few thousand years humans will have provolved themselves into a huge variety of forms and chimps and the like will have been provolved to a least be as smart and capable of functioning in society as humans are now, along with cats, dogs, elephants, etc.

Examples: http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-topic/45bd06293820c

Humans do have the largest brain to body ratio compared to all other animals on the Earth, perhaps that has some relevance.

>>6716765
not sure how the size of body matters. just because you have a big ratio doesn't mean your brain has that many neurons or is smart.

>>6716765
We also have one of the highest penis:body mass ratios

Muh dick

>>6715406
They can't use tools.

>>6716006
They have a maximum lifespan of around two years, and a lot of that is spent being super tiny. Probably go through some kind of octopus puberty through a lot of it too, and then they die as soon as they're old enough to made an egg clutch. Not much opportunity to pursue a career in between all that.

>>6716031
>Opens a threaded container
>jus flecksabel lul
Be gone, dullard.

>>6716696
>In a few thousand years, will Spanish be something else and Italian resemble what Spanish is like now?
Think before you type.

Can someone here explain to me what intelligence is?

>>6716800
Monkey have been known to use sticks on terminate mounds so they can get food.

>>6717186

Ravens too! And their brains are TINY compared to brains of primates.

Watch and be amazed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrYPm6DD44M

Intelligence has nothing to do with the size of the brain. A very large brain doesn't mean that the animal is intelligent. It's just a correlation at this point.

Ravens can remember a person's face years after they've seen it!

>>6716344

http://youtu.be/HtoqLZ5XhQ8

>tfw a bonobo just made a stone tool and used it to cut a rope holding a food box closed.

>>6717201
This skill was taught to them but they understand the process. See how it understands that the rope needs to be taught so the edge can better cut it.

>>6716281
lol these are slippery as fuck and can break your arms/legs/head if they bite you

>>6717194
My point was that humans aren't the only ones who can make tools.

>>6717238
>make
I meant use

>>6717238
how does tool making equal intelligence?

>>6717690
Because it demonstrates abstract reasoning.

>>6715521
my brain just grinned 2spooky4me

>>6717698
Mmmmno.

wow, so smart. more like degenerates

Encephalization level.
Ratio of actual brain mass vs projected mass from body mass.
Use the Encephalization quotient, calculate for cell energy expenditures.
E = CS^2
That is the cephalization factor, E is brain weight, S is body weight and C is cephalization factor which differs for each type of animal.

>>6717733

I've got a gif around here of a human doing the same thing.

>>6717759
haha kek

>>6717733
Well, it does requiere more smartz for a dolphin because no arms.

>>6716207
Crabs are smart m8

Daily reminder that a dolphin being studied by NASA ended up seducing and fucking one of the researchers.

>>6715484
Intelligence is directly correlated with brain mass. That is brain mass compared to body mass. Proportionally to our body, humans have the largest brains in the animal kingdom.

>>6718252
I thought she just gave it a handjob. Did she really end up fucking the dolphin? This makes my dick happy.

>>6718286
You are a gross person.

>>6718294
It doesn't matter that you are on /sci/. It's still 4chins.

>>6715942
Whale killers are dolphins actually, just huge ones. They are to dolphins as we are to apes.

>>6717009
Your thinking cuttlefish dude. Octopodes live for 30 years.

>>6716013
2:04, 2kawaii4me

>>6718512
that was cool

I just saw Lucy, can I join in this thread?

dolphin brain is creepy

Ours is more connected. inteligence is the bigger and more connected grid between neurons.

>>6718784
>Ours is more connected. inteligence is the bigger and more connected grid between neurons.

Hmm… any proof of that?

>>6715406
To put it in simple terms, it comes down to the "wiring" of our brains. Computers 30 years ago were much larger than today's computers, but the computers of today are significantly more powerful because of how they are wired together. There is some correlation between brain size and intelligence, but how the brain is wired and how it's specialized is a more significant factor in determining intelligence.

>>6717733
is he laughing?

is this dolphin trolling us??

>>6719822
I don't think you know what you're talking about.

>>6715778
Brain to body mass means nothing. Body mass has nothing to do with intelligence, if it did all midgets would be geniuses.

>>6716112
You missed the "and structure" part of that post.

>>6719863
Do you want to post anything of substance or is "i think you're wrong" the best you can produce?

I heard that our brain size increased, and so did our IQ, the moment we started eating cooked foods. Something about it apparently gives more nutrition.

>>6719920
>"I think cars work by black magic"
>No
>"lol post something of substance"
It's not worth going in to something with someone who clearly doesn't know the first thing about what they are talking about.

>>6719942
I read somewhere that since cooked food is easier to chew, humans' jaw muscles and bones got smaller, leaving more space for the brain to grow in the skull

>>6719954
i heard in a movie that womens brains are 50% smaller than male brains and thats why you have no gf

>>6719951
I thought it was a pretty good example to give someone a general idea of why. Most arguments come down to our brains being more developed than those of other creatures. Is that not comparable to the computer example given?

>>6717232
but how are they going to get close enough to do that when I have a pipebomb?

>>6716207
>Wait a minute, how did they get the crabs into that bottle with the small opening at the top?

>>6719951
now you're exaggerating his post, still not even addressing a single fault in his example.

>>6719984
>>6720055
Nice try, moron.

Because apparently chimpanzees keep their testicles in their brain, which reduces brain capacity

me on the left

what about communication? do dolphins really "talk" to each other through sonar as this guy claimed?

i'd say that the may be smarter, but humans are more "hybrid". we can adapt and comunicate easier. the fact that they are smarter does not mean they're more dominent

>>6715406
Crows>Dolphins

>>6715954
This is called neuroplasticity, although the guy might be gone by now

>>6721212
They must be able to:

>trainers have two dolphins in front of them
>trainer shows the symbol card for "create"
>both dolphins jump backwards into the water, speed along the bottom of the pool, and both do a brand new combo trick perfectly synchronized

To do that they are definitely communicating somehow, and loads more efficiently than a human pair could. That's why I usually say that dolphins are socially eons ahead of us.

I have a related question

If life started out in the Ocean, why isn't the most intelligent lifeform an Ocean-bearing creature?

>>6717194

That's a neat trick, but how long did it take to teach them it?

>>6717201

So? I could still take him in a fight. What's he going to do, come at me with a rock? I own a fucking gun.

>>6721331
Because they left earth, what do you think greys are?

>>6721331

Why would it be? Humanity originated in the Rift Valley, why isn't Kenya the most advanced nation?

Just one word. Language.

>>6717733
is it doing what i think its doing

>>6717205
we don't need to know what taught is, we just need to notice work being done to the rope when it is taught, and no work being done when it isn't.

>>6721487
>is it doing what i think its doing
yes

I think some other anons already mentioned it up above: size doesn't correlate directly to complexity in brain biology. Dolphin's brains are larger, but they only have about a quarter of the synapses of humans.

>>6715406
implying that we are smarter.

Not shitposting.

>>6718497
According to what source? A search tells me the only one known to live much longer than two years is a G. Boreopacifica that was only observed during its brooding period, and that was only confirmed for 4.5 years.

>>6717733
>mfw someone actually saved that abomination

>>6718252
source!?

>>6715716
I sense a little sarcasm there, but everything you just said was completely true

>>6716013
I'd hate to be one of those crabs. Just imagine what it'd be like to see that thing coming for you while trapped in a glass container...

>>6718252
Humans can have sex with ANIMALS?!

I was told you'd die from the severe trauma?

Intelligence is a function of the entire nervous system throughout he body, not just the brain.

>>6715804
Why do I keep hearing about this?

>>6723228
Must be true, so your task is now clear:

>Find a dolphin
>Fuck it
>Record you fucking it
>Post video
>Report results
>Compare to your previous sexual experience

Good luck anon.

>>6715406
>Why are we so much smarter?
because we had to be in order to survive.

>>6723285
I dissagree.

I think we are so smart because intelligent is an attractive trait and intelligent people had more sex.

>>6723285
I dissagree.

I think we are so smart because intelligence is an attractive trait and intelligent people had more sex and more kids.

>>6723322
Almost every societal influence shows otherwise.

And, no. Obviously some carried intelligent genes, but most favored strength, power, and stamina.

>>6723285
>because we had to be in order to survive.

have u seen the monsters that live in the seas? they're worse than land predators. so your theory is BS.

>>6715406
Opposable thumbs had a lot to do with it.

They allowed the close observation, manipulation, scrutiny of objects, crafting of tools and ultimately the ability to pass on more of the information learned by the previous generation.

>>6723388
>And, no. Obviously some carried intelligent genes, but most favored strength, power, and stamina.

Implying they are mutually exclusive.

Composing a love song or a poem was a sure fire way to get you some prehistoric pootang.

>>6723388
>Almost every societal influence shows otherwise.

{citation required}

>>6715406
I don't know OP we always had intelligence so what's stopping Dolphins from talking?

>>6723228
I don't know why no one has published a paper on it yet. A lot of free research available on the internet to get you started.

>>6721331
All ocean creature roll a -2 for intelligence.

This thread is too full of a human centric view of intelligence. Please remember that cetaceans and humans have been biologically separate for over 50 million years, and adapted to a vastly different environments. Using tool making and language as standards for intelligence is idiotic. By that logic dolphins would probably laugh at how stupid humans are because we have a poorer understanding of spatial movement.

>>6723689

Dolphins talk to each other in dolphin language.

>>6715521
Matter contemplating matter. Truely amazing.

>>6723739
Except that the intelligence that only matters is that that allows us to create mental structures via abstraction. I do not want most of my brain controlling a huge-ass sonar system.

Rekt.

>>6715877

>>6717201
These Africans sure are advanced

>>6718497
How? most cephalopodi live for 2 years, the Giant Pacific octopus for at least 5 years in captivity, and even the giant squid has been postulated to live for only 2-6 years.

Can Shirou please the dolphins?

So what is intelligence exactly? No one knows?

its not so much as us being smarter as it is that our own brain subconsciously knows how itself works and is thus able to exploit this as an advantage...computers and civilization are a mere upscaled replication of our own hardwiring.

>>6716224
This is actually correct.

>>6715442
Dolphins have a superior ability to perceive emotions. Their relationships are far more complex than that of humans.

>>6716061
It was the same one where rats hit a button and received an electrical current through the pleasure center of the brain. Rats died due to starvation but dolphins left to eat food and then immediately returned.

>>6715406
I don't know what's the difference between animals and humans. There was the parrot called Alex the bird that died a few years ago. The bird knew 100 words and knew math,color, and simple phrases. I guess this ability isn't exclusive to humans to understand the language and numbers. So what is the exact difference between humans?

>>6724553
I need to install this button in my girlfriend and have it on a remote control.

>>6717733
that is a porpouse

>>6724310
The ability to speak & comprehend your surroundings?

>>6715521
You are now realizing that you are a brain being held captive by a skeleton

>>6716013
How did it open the lid?

>>6715406

> implying they don't have advanced technology in the deep oceans.

> implying we are much smarter

humans are dumb.

>>6715773

imagine dolphins raping humans, that's amazing.

i would let a dolphin rape my wife for sure.

> not a human
> fun to watch
> doing a favor to the master race

>>6724553
Best video game ever. If only I could buy it.

>>6716052
Have we tried resequencing the part of the genome affecting the growth of that to a developing dolphin?

If Dolphins were so smart, they should be able to learn and solve mathematical equations, since maths is the universal language. This doesn't require hands.

>>6723228
Because you're on 4chan.

>>6723739
Tell that to the dolphins who went to the moon.

>>6717201
& they say we evolved from Apes?

>>6725178
It requires hands if you need to do any problem requiring more short term memory than you have available. 99% of everything we know about maths for example.

>>6725178
>humans would be any less retarded than the other animals if we could neither pass down knowledge between people through time nor expand our working memory externally

>>6716052
Wtf are you talking about? Dolphins communicate to eachother using sound? How is that not a language?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obuI1MLLF20

Two of the most intelligent animal species on the planet (elephants and dolphins) and we're fucking slaughtering them. Nuke Japan and Africa.

>>6725851

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonhard_Euler#Eyesight_deterioration

>>6716013
Too bad octopi are autistic as fuck.
>Never contacts another creature of the same species unless to "hey baby let's fuck" or to "fite me irl fgt"
So sad

>>6725992
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/octopus-chronicles/2013/02/27/rare-social-octopuses-break-all-the-mating-rules-video/

>colonies of 40 or more individuals
if any species of octopus has a chance at becoming even more intelligent, it's probably these guys.

>>6725995
they can't talk though
at least dolphins have that sonar shit, octopi will always be beta species

>>6715406
opposable thumbs

>>6726007
Land-lubber

>>6724553
That sounds like a different thing, looking it up apparently someone tried letting one use an tablet comptuer: http://boingboing.net/2010/06/01/dolphin-uses-ipad-as.html
No idea what they've done since then.

>>6724624
fucking 2spooky goddammit

>>6724553
Where do I get a pleasure button like mentioned?

>>6715406
Fewer neurons. A higher ratio of cells in marine mammal brains are structural cells that help insulate against the cold and handle the stresses of swimming.

>>6715406
the brain on the right's bigger, but the brain on the left looks far more edible

>>6726051
>ITT no one is familiar with D. Adams research
Dolphins aren't the second most intelligent species on the planet. They're the second most intelligent species in the world.

>>6722854
Works for Welsh.

>>6718252
NASA researchers a sluts

>>6717733
y do dolphins always rape

>>6726096
They know humans can't put them in jail where they'd be raped by a bunch of muscular gangsters in the toilet, so they enjoy their freedom
Fuckers are definitely intelligent.

>>6715406
Best theory I have heard so far is
https://www.ted.com/talks/suzana_herculano_houzel_what_is_so_special_about_the_human_brain#

>>6718675
Don't believe anything Hollywood shits out.

>>6725999
Vocalizations are not the only method of communication. I can imagine a method of information encoding that involves changing skin pigmentation and texture, two things octopus excel at.

>>6725999
Dolphins won't get anywhere because of their shitty limbs and the fact that they're so horny they cant go 5 minutes without raping someone. Octopi are where it's at

>>6727108
Dolphins could be to octopi as horses are to humans.

>>6726116
>https://www.ted.com/talks/suzana_herculano_houzel_what_is_so_special_about_the_human_brain#
this was very informative thanks!

>>6717201
dis nigga could be the new leader of New Guinea

>>6727123
>on fishing boat
>dolphins leap out of the water over the boat
>octopi in tribal makeup and coral spears kill all my crew-mates while their dolphin steeds have their way with me

>>6726116
>https://www.ted.com/talks/suzana_herculano_houzel_what_is_so_special_about_the_human_brain#

Mind blown.

It occurred to me that this is why stress kills.

When stressed, your brain is working hard, using more energy.

You can't consume enough to support the stress. An imbalance results. And your body suffers injury.

>>6715954
Neuroplasticity, so yes, but it really only works if you're really young

>>6727196
Where would be the ideal place for them to ride? Behind the dorsal fin?

>>6721399
this. personally I think most mammels are close to being as intelligent as humans, it's just that they can't process language as well as us. all animals demonstrate problem solving skills, it's just that humans can pass on information to one another which means wasting less time having to figure things out for themselves. I think if animals had better language processing they could create forms of civilizations (except they can't use tools as well as us which would limit them).

>>6726788
Fuck you, I wanna be a USB stick.

interesting

>>6721331
But we are
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_ape_hypothesis

>>6723405
What is aquatic ape theory?

>>6726065
Difference?

>>6726017
>http://boingboing.net/2010/06/01/dolphin-uses-ipad-as.html

>Dolphin uses an iPad

that's fucking crazy! I for one welcome our aquatic overlords!

>>6727460

Being a land creature and then temporarily going aquatic is different than being a fish, or even an amphibian.

>>6727485
>For now, the researchers are getting Merlin used to the touch screen by showing him real objects, such as a ball, cube or plastic duck, then asking the dolphin to touch photos of those same objects on the screen. “This is an easy task for a dolphin, but it is a necessary building block towards our goal of a complete language interface between humans and dolphins,”

They know what these objects are?

What do you think Patrick Bateman's IQ was?

>>6727561
They recognize feature similarity, yes. He doesn't know what a plastic duck is, but he does know what one looks like because of his past experience seeing and interacting with them.

What a shame, Apple makes shits products. This poor dolphin.

>>6727593
stfu commie scum.

>>6716031
A better question is how did it know that opening the bottle would let it eat the crabs?

>>6727563
>do

>>6717733
Codpiece

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxDZW4k8tCY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7E7FTSsbkg

I'm impressed. Do they have some sort of group situational awareness, how do they talk?

>>6728666
wow that first video. i wouldn't be surprised if the guy's guess at the end was right and it's some kind of training exercise for the young.

as far as communication goes it's probably more a case of watching and imitating than outright language-based instruction.

>>6728681

Orca hell week. I'd love to get inside their minds with a vulcun mind meld to find out for sure.

>>6728742
fukn nerd

>>6728742
also, dolphins have arguably even more advanced techniques
http://vimeo.com/34375726

it is like a rpg. at the very beginning you have no idea and make some random decisions that make you weaker than you could be in long term. fucktards needed to leave water. they have realized that too late, all they could do was to jump out for short periods of time.

>>6728770
>http://vimeo.com/34375726
that was fucking awesome.

>>6726805
Camouflage being a language? I don't think so, man.

>>6729017
Cuttlefish communicate like that all the time.

>>6727563
>>6727824
>was

>>6729017
you are narrow minded then

>>6729017
>>6729021
>>6729188
Visual language is a hot topic

>>6729194
you mean sign language?

>>6729199
That's one type, but also comics, movies, stories in general that rely on visualization of scenarios - theory of mind kind of things.

>>6729199
>>6729205
What does that have anything to do with interpreting colors on skin as characters and symbols?

>>6729213
Because they're all visual languages.

I heard it might be a body to brain size ratio more than pure size. Bird brain in common culture may be a falsity.

>>6715597
>So when will we make voice recognition software that listens to dolphins and lets them take control of a computer? Could they utilize something like Eyewriter? If so, I want to get them bank accounts and see what dolphins do with money.

Quips like this is what makes life worth living.

You've brightened up my day, good sir.

>>6729215
not by any rigorous, linguistic definition of language. only sign language. stop talking out of your ass, kid

>>6729213
are signs (sign language) symbols? it's all just sensory information.

>>6729225
Language has grammar and semantics. It does not have to be symbolic like writing.

>>6729238
there's a few more criteria than that. most linguists consider sign to be a full blown human language. things like film or comic books are not except for maybe in a metaphorical sense.

>>6729246
It's not metaphor at all! It's a language.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language
Language is the human capacity for acquiring and using complex systems of communication, and a language is any specific example of such a system.

since we only use 10% of our brains what happens if dolphins use the other 90?

>>6729251
again it really depends on how you define language. scientific definitions are bound to differ from commonsense views but there are a few hallmarks that really help distinguish natural human languages from other communicative constructs or whatever.

first and foremost is that a human child can naturally acquire it without any formal instruction. deaf children naturally pick up and start babbling sign the same way kids learning to speak pick up and babble in a spoken language. also the fact that you can take a newborn from any part of the world and raise him in any other part of the world and it will be become as proficient in the local language as a local baby.

i'm not sure how much progress neurolinguistics has made but presumbably there are neurological hallmarks to look out for with natural human languages too. i heard of one study where people given unnatural grammar rules for manipulating words used a different part of the brain than when they were given rules more in-line with natural grammars. it's not enough to say that a language is "any complex system of communication" as that would cover virtually everything and not be very useful at all from a technical standpoint.

>>6729271
>we only use 10% of our brains
False, faggot.

>>6729283
It's all well and goodwith what you've put forth but it has nothing to do with my claim.

>it's not enough to say that a language is "any complex system of communication" as that would cover virtually everything and not be very useful at all from a technical standpoint.
Really? It would cover virtually everything? Like almost anything could be a language?? Strawman.

There are character-interaction rules that infants pick up as well. Natural grammar covers more than just spoken language. Look into it.

>>6729298
i think you need to look into it

>>6729308
Good one, did your mom teach you that comeback?

>>6729320
dunno why don't you look into it and get back to me

>>6729271
We use 100% of our brains. Fuck whatever hollywood says.

>>6715406
The our brains are denser, more packed with neurons which we can only afford to keep because the food we eat has more energy in it. Also the brains other use is to control the body, so that takes up most of the brains function. Its not size on its own, its size of the brain: size of the body, higher the ratio of brain the 'smarter' you can be.

>>6729271
if you think there is any truth to that why don't you get a lobotomy?

If you slapped on 2 extra arms onto the human body, would they become smarter because they learn to use more hands at the same time for more tasks at the same time?

Something like Doc Oc or some kind of augment to make yourself look like Machamp, extra row of arms.

>implying dolphins aren't as smarts as niggers

>>6729271
>we only use 10% of our brain
Nope, we just use different areas of our brains for different tasks. If you use 100% of your brain all at once you are likely having a seizure.

>>6730185
no.

>>6730220
yes.

>>6729217
Anyone know the brain density of a crown. Those nigs are way to smart for their brain size i think.

>>6730228
https://answersingenesis.org/animal-behavior/intelligence/crow-intelligence-said-to-evolve-differently-from-humans/

Crows have a smaller brain, but their brains have a part that handles all abstract thinking. That is how more efficient their brains are. It would be like comparing a person calculating manually and one person with a brain implant that makes those calculations, except that crows are already born this way.

You mammals can brag about size, the crow is way more efficient.

>>6730270

Nice troll. You got me.

>>6727237

No. That is because when you are stressed you produce stress hormones, which, in the long run, fuck you up

>>6729271

Are you really eating up what Hollywood passes up as a fact?

>>6718278
Brain to Body mass ratio is more important, and if memory serves the human brain wins out in that category.

>>6721487
It is doing exactly what you think it's doing.

>>6730327
yes

>>6715973
Let's take a black man from the city, and a raven. Give them a puzzle to solve where various sticks, rocks...etc are needed to open gates and increase water levels. See who does better.

>>6716702
just hold it's mouth shut and cover its blow hole

>>6716794
I thought that was only among apes and we were above average but still not the highest out of all animals

>>6719822
I don't think you fully understand computers

>>6730294
kek, that wasn't me but i posted the crow.
Red Queen theory suggest the brain might be a simple ornament so 'intelligence' a symptom, as the brain grows say as an ornament to attract mates it grows more intelligent thus driving it even larger by the selection process. this started about 1 million years ago in humans and the female cervix stopped growing about 100k years ago or the female couldn't walk.

The Bonobo basically fornicates all day, the dolphin has been documented gang raping females, we are obviously obsessed with porn. What is the brain really about?

>>6720035
are you saying they assembled the crab inside the bottle

>>6730624

I don't think you do, either.

You can recreate a 1980s model minicomputer using modern technology. It won't be as fast as a cheap Intel system. Why? Because we've learned a lot since then and have better caching algorithms, better prediction, specialized routines for common functions (MMX, anyone?), and innumerable other improvements over the basic design. Intel and AMD don't pay their engineers to sit around and jerk off all day.

So while much of the increase in power is due to improvements in semiconductor technology and the relative cheapness of RAM, there's still quite a bit to be said for the chip designs themselves (i.e. how they're wired).

>>6715560
yes, they are, you're wrong

>>6719822
>the computers of today are significantly more powerful because of how they are wired together
This post made me have a seizure.

>>6724364
you are so stupid in surprised your brain sub-conciously knows how work lungs

>>6724644
you can't fool me dolphin

>>6731319
this hairy primate is funny.

>>6727563
222

>>6723226

A highly underrated post.
If you are actually clever, what the fuck are doing on /sci/?

>>6716702
>Try to hit a monkey and they'll tear your limbs off and shit in the wound.

You mean ape? No fucking monkey is ever going to tear the limbs off a person.

>>6717766
He's not kidding.

http://vidmax.com/video/71652-Boy-is-given-a-blowjob-by-a-fish-

>>6723739
>a poorer understanding of spatial movement.

I don't know a single dolphin that understands planetary motion.

>>6722745
crabs are too dumb to realize though, that's why it's legal to boil them alive am i right

>>6715442
I believe the density of neurones in the human brain is higher in humans allowing for a much larger total number of neurones. Any number of other factors could come into play such as speed of transmission along the axon and synapse. More biochemical factors may include slight differences in processes that lead to synapse formation which would involve different proteins and thus be genetic. Also the ~16-18 years development time for humans to reach adulthood is a massively important factor.

>>6724625
This, it just skips that massively important step in the video.

One thing that I think is amazing to think about is whales.
Their brains are just so huge that they have to be intelligent. They must be able to contemplate and reason, but they have no language.
Imagine understanding so much but not understanding what you understand because you can't put it into words.

>>6724625
>How did it open the lid?

It twisted it off with its suckers and with its beak.

>>6725902
But he developed the basics while he had vision and could write. Also you can still write blind, it's about representing what's going on in your head in a medium. Also communicating it beyond word of mouth. Proper mathematics require some degree off writing.

>>6727563
130-150.

>>6732070
their neurons are also large, meaning less of them. and they have large bodies to control.

big brain != big thoughts
i thought we covered this already

>>6717153
I like you
>>6727814
>This kills the crab

a large amount of the dolphin brain tissue is used to insulate itself from the relatively cold water their in

>>6715804
Redban is that you?

>>6730624
I do not think anyone fully understands computers.
~been studying computers for years

>>6717173
it is a tv show

>>6729298
Can almost anything be a language?
Given infinite set of rules, yes.

>>6733257
>Can almost anything be a language?

Come on… there's something called information theory which says you're wrong.